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What is the plan when Beatty returns?

JFIB : 10/10/2015 8:05 am
I know it's been discussed before but here is what I'm hoping is happening. Flowers is coming into his own on the left side and playing well for a rookie with an ankle injury. I would not move him and risk a hiccup in his development. Beatty is obviously still recovering from his pectoral tear and I believe week 9 is the soonest we may see him. I'm not sure if the current temp IR rules allow him to work with coaches at the facility, but I would have him working every day between now and week 9 with someone who can teach him to adapt his skills to play RT. I'm sure he is still capable of running foot work drills and hand placement drills while he recovers from the surgery.

Having him ready to take over for Newhouse in week 9 would potentially solidify this line in time for a playoff run if were still in it. If not allowed to do it at Quest, set him up with some reliable outside coach to get a head start on the switch.
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Plan A, as Cubed outlined  
JonC : 10/10/2015 9:12 am : link
and TC players don't typically lose their position due to injury. Both of which suggest WB gets the LT gig back and EF kicks to RT.

I would leave EF at RT, and find out if WB has any utility at RT. They've stated EF is the future at LT, it makes less sense to me to move him mid-season unless you believe WB will be here beyond 2015.
Don't see how you start moving the OL around mid season  
BillT : 10/10/2015 9:15 am : link
Just doesn't make sense given that neither Flowers or Beatty have played RT and can just step easily in for Newhouse. I think Beatty will be a reserve. And they also have to find a roster spot which would probably mean cutting a DL or LB. Brinkley would certainly be a candidate.
Beatty will be a starter  
JonC : 10/10/2015 9:22 am : link
it's one to disrupt chemistry, but it's another to have your best OL from previous sit on the bench.
Flowers has obviously earned a ton of respect from the coaches  
JonC : 10/10/2015 9:23 am : link
I'm hopeful that will be enough to leave him at LT, and let him grow now. But, history suggests he'll move for Beatty.
argh  
JonC : 10/10/2015 9:29 am : link
I would leave EF at LT.
imo, I would leave Flowers at LT  
micky : 10/10/2015 9:41 am : link
I believe he's the future and leave him there. Don't mess with it.

But, I can see them putting Beatty at LT and maybe benching Flowers.
No, EF and WB are your two best tackles  
JonC : 10/10/2015 9:44 am : link
Newhouse will be going to the bench when WB is cleared for action.
Knowing TC  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 10/10/2015 9:51 am : link
Beatty win get his gig back, even if the OL is playing well. He did it in 2010 with O'Hara. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.
RE: No, EF and WB are your two best tackles  
micky : 10/10/2015 9:56 am : link
In comment 12538203 JonC said:
Quote:
Newhouse will be going to the bench when WB is cleared for action.


Of course I never played OT, but how much of a disruption, or learning process, etc to move from one side to another and never having to play both sides? footwork, techn, etc. Just concerned of Flowers getting on track and staying in his, I assume, his natural position. Plus, OL is playing well now as a group too.
micky  
JonC : 10/10/2015 9:59 am : link
Two reasons I'd leave EF at LT, and put WB at RT ... I want to not disrupt EF's development at LT, and WB has played the RT before, even if he's not an ideal RT.

Changing sides, you never really know, these guys aren't rocket scientists. Some can move without a blip, many seem to struggle with having to change all your techniques, footwork, understanding play responsibilities, etc.
...  
ColHowPepper : 10/10/2015 10:17 am : link
"benching Flowers..."? wtf??? Not unless it's necessary to give the ankle some rest.

I just don't see how the team messes with an OL that is growing in cohesion, chemistry, and confidence. Why mess with success they've put together so far? And this goes to the next point:

[Doomster:] "but if Newhouse is playing ok, I wouldn't hurry Beatty back...." This is true, if Newhouse is holding the fort. But the PFF report earlier this week, fwiw, had Schwartz grading out best and Newhouse worst along the OL, and that's with a hobbled Flowers.

It was interesting, however, to me during Bills game, when the Giants' running game was having its best runs, during Q2 and Q3, it was up the middle but off Schwartz, to the right side not the left.

And JonC makes the point necessary of consideration: Plan A was to have WB at LT and EF at RT, but that's in the distant past. I just can't see changing up both tackle positions if/when WB comes back. Let McAdoo adjust some of the play designs to that side to take advantage of WB's skills and mitigate his weaknesses, i.e., as a power blocker.
RE: Beatty will be a starter  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/10/2015 10:29 am : link
In comment 12538177 JonC said:
Quote:
it's one to disrupt chemistry, but it's another to have your best OL from previous sit on the bench.
. He wAs the best OL last year because both Pugh and Richberg were playing out of position

He's pretty much the most over rated Giant on this team for the last 10-15 years. Never seen an OL get 4 called holding penalties in a game and have people say it was a good thing because at least he didn't get the QB killed. He's a JAG at LT. He's certainly not a great run blocker.

The main question is how well is the OL playing when he's ready. If the team is firmly in the playoff chase and Flowers is playing well it's a ballsy move to switch guys around if that's the case.
Flowers stays at LT  
GMenLTS : 10/10/2015 10:32 am : link
Beatty tries out the right side.
LM  
JonC : 10/10/2015 10:34 am : link
I doubt you'd win that debate with the brass.
RE: I think  
Simms11 : 10/10/2015 10:40 am : link
In comment 12538107 aquidneck said:
Quote:
Beatty comes back as a reserve T and situational TE for a game or two, then reclaims his LT spot. Flowers goes to RT as was the original plan.


I don't think Flowers will be a right tackle this year. He hasn't even practiced one snap there, even in pre-season. They won't screw with his mechanics IMO. Beatty will probably be worked in at RT with Newhouse as the swing guy.
Additionally, Beatty was one of the better run blockers on the team at  
Simms11 : 10/10/2015 10:43 am : link
LT last year and will do the same in the right side. Is he a power blocker, no, but he is quite capable now.
I have been saying  
Jay on the Island : 10/10/2015 10:47 am : link
that I would be shocked if Flowers shifts over to RT when Beatty returns. Flowers has strictly played LT since he was drafted due to the injury to Beatty and he played LT in college. It is not a simple move going from LT to RT. Beatty is a much better fit at LT than RT but he has started at RT although he hasn't started on the right side since his second season in the league. Is Beatty an ideal RT? No but he is a better pass blocker and run defender than Newhouse. When Beatty is activated I believe he will spend the first game as the swing tackle and will likely see time at TE in the goal line sets. His second game back he should be in good enough game shape to start at RT which will allow Newhouse to go to the bench and be the jumbo TE.
I won't be surpised to see Flowers move to RT  
wigs in nyc : 10/10/2015 10:55 am : link
and Beatty on the team again next year.

I don't see the benefit in rushing him off the team- otherwise we're in the same boat looking for a T this offseason all over again, from a [hope] worse draft position [/hope].

I agree that it will depend heavily on whether or not we look primed for a late season run come week 7.
Jay  
ColHowPepper : 10/10/2015 10:57 am : link
I'm hoping Hart grows in to the jumbo role, and get him more game experience
If they moved Flowers  
mrvax : 10/10/2015 10:57 am : link
he would have a big learning curve, Apparentlt the Giants have been grooming him at LOT right out of the gate because of the loss of Beatty.

I'd guess if one of them had to play RT at the NFL level, Beatty would be able to learn it faster having a lot more Oline experience.

I think moving Flowers would be a mistake. See if Beatty can challenge the current Oline's weakest link for a starting role.
RE: argh  
mrvax : 10/10/2015 11:02 am : link
In comment 12538185 JonC said:
Quote:
I would leave EF at LT.


A lot of us would and I think the Giants will.
If TC is going to break precedent  
JonC : 10/10/2015 11:21 am : link
Flowers at LT would be a good time to do it, imv.
EF  
Carl in CT : 10/10/2015 11:35 am : link
Was drafted high as a LT and as a LT he will be for the next 10 years. Beatty can play RT. If he can't, it's goodbye after this year as his cap # will dictate. Beatty has played well for a 2nd round pick but now we have a franchise left tackle! End of story.
Beatty will have a beautiful spot  
xman : 10/10/2015 11:37 am : link
on the bench where he can watch the game
RE: EF  
wigs in nyc : 10/10/2015 11:48 am : link
In comment 12538299 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Was drafted high as a LT and as a LT he will be for the next 10 years. Beatty can play RT. If he can't, it's goodbye after this year as his cap # will dictate. Beatty has played well for a 2nd round pick but now we have a franchise left tackle! End of story.


I don't necessarily agree that his draft position will dictate where he plays- just look at Pugh.
Flowers must be kept at LT. He's the present and the future of the OL  
Ace718 : 10/10/2015 11:52 am : link
Beatty played some games at RT as a rookie and did a pretty good job. I'd be much more comfortable switching Beatty back to RT than moving Flowers. Flowers at LT, Pugh at LG, and Richburg at C are 3 players that I would not move. They are a strong part of the OL.

The weakest link in the OL so far has been Schwartz. Newhouse has been better than expected at RT but Beatty at RT will definitely be an upgrade. And I think Beatty can handle being back at RT.
Unless Flowers is hurt  
Shadow : 10/10/2015 11:53 am : link
You can not move him and mess up his development.
Beaty to RT or Situational.
Beatty moves in at RT  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/10/2015 12:29 pm : link
Flowers, like Wynn, has earned their spots
Didn't Beatty start his  
Route 9 in LEH : 10/10/2015 12:36 pm : link
career 4 or 5 games at RT when McKenzie was hurt? I know he was a rookie that year, but anyone remember how he did?
And going into '16  
wigs in nyc : 10/10/2015 12:46 pm : link
does Beatty have a spot? The benefit of cutting him loose? We may not be in need of the space.
RE: If TC is going to break precedent  
TMS : 10/10/2015 12:49 pm : link
In comment 12538287 JonC said:
Quote:
Flowers at LT would be a good time to do it, imv.
Do not think that TC would put president ahead of what is clearly best for the team. He wants to win now, and will base his decision on that primarily. First and foremost MO.
It will be too hard for Flowers to move to RT ....  
Manny in CA : 10/10/2015 12:55 pm : link
Beatty to RT makes more sense (where Newhouse is just OK)

From what I've learned from the many years of watching pro football, is that probably more than any group on the field, is that the O-line is the more integrated, dependent and complimentary of all ....

LT Beatty went from being just all-right to very good (when Kevin Boothe was playing LG), to absolutely terrible when Boothe left ...

In the same way, Schwartz (a very good to outstanding RG) is just good playing next to Newhouse.

If Beatty gets a chance to play next to Schwartz, I think you'll see the level of play from both men increase significantly.
RE: And going into '16  
Ace718 : 10/10/2015 1:03 pm : link
In comment 12538382 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
does Beatty have a spot? The benefit of cutting him loose? We may not be in need of the space.


The dead money might be too big a hit if he's cut in 2016. After 2016 the hit might not be so big.
I think robbie is correct  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/10/2015 1:04 pm : link
I also think that Flowers has handled some top notch defenses already and is doing a better job than Beatty has ever done at LT -- I don't think you want to disturb what is working just because Beatty is coming back. Beatty has been Wally Pipped at LT - if he plays anywhere it will be on the right imo unless Flowers can't play - in that event he will be used at LT
Beatty is WAY better than Newhouse  
arniefez : 10/10/2015 1:12 pm : link
so when he's ready he should play and Newhouse should be a back up. TC history says Beatty will go back to LT. As stated above best chance to win a playoff game is if he goes to RT.
OP - I have been thinking about that for the last 4 weeks.  
short lease : 10/10/2015 1:13 pm : link
Flowers has impressed but, I have heard people say Beatty is getting paid to much money to play anywhere else but LT. Does Flowers move to the right side (I believe he played the right side in College?)? Or do we have the highest paid RT in the league? Might be one of those situations where - it will be a good problem to have?
Changing  
AcidTest : 10/10/2015 1:16 pm : link
Flowers for Beatty upsets two spots on the OL, since Flowers then moves to RT. And as others have noted, Flowers has little experience at that position. The question is therefore whether Beatty should replace Newhouse, not Flowers.

As far as next year is concerned, I would just keep Beatty, even if we are overpaying him. He's a starting caliber LT if anything happens to Flowers, and provides excellent OL depth. People here have been screaming about the lack of OL depth for years, but now want to trade or cut the one guy who gives it to us. We also have the cap room. Using some of that room to keep that depth, especially after giving Eli $84M, is an excellent investment.
From Wikipedia .....  
short lease : 10/10/2015 1:22 pm : link

As a true freshman at the University of Miami in 2012, Flowers played in all 12 games at right tackle, making four starts.


Might be rusty but, has some college experience on the right side.
Whatever they decide to do with Beatty and Flowers,  
BlueLou : 10/10/2015 1:52 pm : link
I sincerely doubt Newhouse will remain as a starter. If your view is that "he's doing OK" then you should think Will Beatty is the 2nd coming of Willie Roaf. Beatty is by and large underappreciated among BBIers, a prime example being how he was mocked for giving up a Jared Allen sack when Beatty's technique and position were pretty darn good, but because the middle of the pocket had collapsed Eli couldn't step up and Alen was able to reach around Beatty and bring Eli down, even as Beatty was in between them.

I am not saying Beatty should get the OLT job back from Flowers...but he should easily supplant Newhouse unless Newhouse significantly picks up his game from what he's done the 1st quarter.
Whatever they decide to do with Beatty and Flowers,  
BlueLou : 10/10/2015 1:53 pm : link
I sincerely doubt Newhouse will remain as a starter. If your view is that "he's doing OK" then you should think Will Beatty is the 2nd coming of Willie Roaf. Beatty is by and large underappreciated among BBIers, a prime example being how he was mocked for giving up a Jared Allen sack when Beatty's technique and position were pretty darn good, but because the middle of the pocket had collapsed Eli couldn't step up and Alen was able to reach around Beatty and bring Eli down, even as Beatty was in between them.

I am not saying Beatty should get the OLT job back from Flowers...but he should easily supplant Newhouse unless Newhouse significantly picks up his game from what he's done the 1st quarter.
I agree with robbie...  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/10/2015 1:53 pm : link
I also think that Flowers has handled some top notch defenses already and is doing a better job than Beatty has ever done at LT -- I don't think you want to disturb what is working just because Beatty is coming back. Beatty has been Wally Pipped at LT - if he plays anywhere it will be on the right imo unless Flowers can't play - in that event he will be used at LT
Ahem,  
BlueLou : 10/10/2015 1:53 pm : link
pardon that.
Flowers goes to RT  
jeff57 : 10/10/2015 2:01 pm : link
.
RE: Would Beatty become trade bait  
Jersey55 : 10/10/2015 4:18 pm : link
In comment 12538122 TMS said:
Quote:
for someone looking for LT.? They are hard to come by.


this could very well happen, especially with Beatty's high dollar contract...
all of this discussion about Beatty  
Jersey55 : 10/10/2015 4:25 pm : link
moving back into the LT spot would depend totally on how good a job Flowers is doing there, if Flowers is playing lights out like I think he will then Beatty can go wherever he'll do the most good and that might be RT depending on how good Newhouse is doing at that time, nothing is etched in stone. One more thing I think I think is that you can lose your job by being out with an injury especially if the guy who replaced you is playing the position better than you were, there doesn't seem to be much of that kind of loyalty anymore about getting your old spot back....
Flowers should remain at LT.  
drkenneth : 10/10/2015 4:30 pm : link
We'll see if TC fucks with what's working...Which, is certainly his M.O.
I don't see how Beatty gets his job back at this point  
David in LA : 10/10/2015 4:38 pm : link
as others have pointed out, the front office seems to think he's the future at LT. Since Beatty went down, the future became now, as evidenced with Flowers' double duty reps at LT with the 1st and 2nd team all summer. Flowers is playing solid, I hope we let him develop at LT and give Beatty some looks at RT.
Flowers isn't moving from LT  
Vanzetti : 10/10/2015 5:34 pm : link
unless he starts to struggle

RE: RE: If TC is going to break precedent  
JonC : 10/10/2015 6:49 pm : link
In comment 12538385 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 12538287 JonC said:


Quote:



Flowers at LT would be a good time to do it, imv.

Do not think that TC would put president ahead of what is clearly best for the team. He wants to win now, and will base his decision on that primarily. First and foremost MO.


You assume something that TC may not agree withe...


I repeat  
JonC : 10/10/2015 6:52 pm : link
Remember Plan A before WB was injured. Things can change but TC tends to make decisions in a predictable manner.
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