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Love the way the Gmen played vs Buffalo, but unconvinced.

BlueLou : 10/10/2015 2:13 pm
1) Buffalo was w/out their 2 best skill players on O, McCoy and Watkins. They also missed at least 2 starters on their O-line, including their starting OLT.

2) Bills committed 17 penalties. W/out the penalty 1st downs the Bills handed them, the Giants' 1st down totals would have been about as bad as the Bills... In any case we were awful on 3rd down conversions.

3)OL "playing well" might be a mirage created by the quick release offense McAdoo designed and Eli implemented with aplomb. We did run the ball better, against a monster D-line!

Grizz is way ahead of himself and the team anointing us SB contenders.
I loved the energy and relentlessness on D,  
BlueLou : 10/10/2015 2:23 pm : link
and the game plan of quick passes that negated the Bills' pass rush.

Loved the way OBJ and later Jennings made "Rambo" their little biotch.

Loved Flowers gutting it out on a bum ankle, Kennard playing like the best Giants LB since Armstead, Wynn giving 4 quarters of overachievement, Beason out "QBing" Tyrod Taylor, loved getting Harris going.

Loved Jayron Hosley's 1st STs tackle, inside the 20...

Lots to love, but still unconvinced.
To be the contrarian...  
okiegiant : 10/10/2015 2:23 pm : link
the Giants could(and should)have won 31-10.

If the other team is committing penalties you still have to capitalize of them.

Couldn't care less the Bills were short a couple of players when the Giants have been short players for the last 3 years.

The Oline looking better by the design of the offense isn't a bad thing, is it?

The Giants may not be Championship contenders but they are playing better than many of us expected.
Giant did not have  
dk in TX : 10/10/2015 2:25 pm : link
JPP, Beatty, Cruz etc. The Cowboys played without Dez, Romo, Scandicks et cetra. It is the NFL. Everybody is injured.
.  
Big Blue '56 : 10/10/2015 2:28 pm : link
1-Please don't play that card unless you're willing to concede the last two injury years destroyed any possibility of us contending..I no longer care if other teams important players are out..Not after what we went through the last two seasons..

2-TC told his players BEFORE the game that Buffalo would beat themselves with penalties..That's WHO Rex Ryan's teams are

3-Re mirage, that could describe Brady's, Rodgers' et al quick release games as well as it pertains to their respective OLs
I believe your logic is a little flawed  
USAF NYG Fan : 10/10/2015 2:35 pm : link
1. The Giants have been without major starters Cruz, Beatty, and JPP the entire season.

2. Here I would argue that the Giants overcame some very dirty play by the Bills. Giants had 11 penalties for 85 yards. Bills had 17 penalties for 135 yards. How is 50 yards the reason they lost by 14 points.

3. Offense playing well might be a mirage based on the quick release offense? Do we plan to change the offense the rest of the year? If not, then they are playing well within their system. I'd argue they need more consistency in the run game but otherwise they are doing very well.

My only concern for our team right now lies with the pass rush. Cruz coming back to form would be a huge bonus if possible but the pass rush (or lack there of) scares me the most. I think competent QBs will throw at will against us with all the time they are getting.
We'll have a much better  
Simms11 : 10/10/2015 2:35 pm : link
idea of who this team is after the next three games IMO. All three are very critical to the Giants psyche and will carry huge momentum for the team going into the second half of the schedule.

I suppose you can what if any game in the NFL and come away with we should of, could of, would of or they should of, could of, would of too, however, there's normally a reason for a win and the Giants have been doing a lot of things right. They earned a win, it wasn't given to them. People think the Giants were lucky to win two Super Bowls with Eli at QB?! I guess it's all how you want to look at it. I am usually a skeptic, but have seen some solid play from this team, this year and really want to believe.

I want to see the glass half full, not half empty. Do they have things to work on, sure, but I see the arrow pointing up and the win in Buffalo, IMO was no fluke. Even if Buffalo would have scored on the two TDs that were called back, I think the Giants still would have been poised to pull it out with a FG anyway.
BlueLou  
arniefez : 10/10/2015 2:38 pm : link
pretty much exactly what an objective observer would see watching last weeks game. Still lots of improvement needed to be a good team and even more importantly still no clue from the sideline how to run the last 4 minutes. Amateur hour again.
We should win tomorrow by 3 scores  
Shadow : 10/10/2015 2:39 pm : link
So I will say 20-17 Giants As we play down to the competition.
The  
AcidTest : 10/10/2015 2:54 pm : link
biggest concern is that we continue to have brain farts when it comes to play calling and clock management. I still don't understand why we didn't run the ball three times when we were deep in the Buffalo end and up by fourteen. Instead, Eli gets picked, when a FG ices the game.
Karlos Williams has been playing better than McCoy  
David in LA : 10/10/2015 2:55 pm : link
Watkins has been ok, but not great so far.
So what?  
Randy in CT : 10/10/2015 3:01 pm : link
.
We should have scored 30 points on their healthy defense.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/10/2015 3:02 pm : link
And yes Buffalo had a lot of penalties.

They led the league in penalties before this.

You play the teams on the schedule. It still counts as a win.
The Bills beat themselves.  
Red Dog : 10/10/2015 3:26 pm : link
Had two TDs taken off the board by OL penalties. Gave the G-men a first down on a FG attempt that was turned into a GIANTS TD. That's an 18 point swing on those three Bills mistakes. And Carpenter missed another short FG for them, so that's 17 more points for Buffalo and 4 less for the GIANTS due to the Bills making big mistakes.

Then there were all the personal fouls that aided GIANTS drives, including 30 yards AFTER one play.

If the Bills had played more error-free and more disciplined football, the final score would have been something like 37 to 20 Buffalo.

Major Tom nailed it. The Bills beat themselves.
RE: The Bills beat themselves.  
BigBlueShock : 10/10/2015 3:32 pm : link
In comment 12538562 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Had two TDs taken off the board by OL penalties. Gave the G-men a first down on a FG attempt that was turned into a GIANTS TD. That's an 18 point swing on those three Bills mistakes. And Carpenter missed another short FG for them, so that's 17 more points for Buffalo and 4 less for the GIANTS due to the Bills making big mistakes.

Then there were all the personal fouls that aided GIANTS drives, including 30 yards AFTER one play.

If the Bills had played more error-free and more disciplined football, the final score would have been something like 37 to 20 Buffalo.

Major Tom nailed it. The Bills beat themselves.

I'm not even sure if this post is serious. Is it? You really think that's how things work? Everything would have been the exact same if the Bills didn't hold on TDs and commit stupid penalties? But no mention of the Giants penalties and mistakes?

Holy crap.
GOOD THING Giants were at Full  
ZogZerg : 10/10/2015 3:51 pm : link
Strength.
I mean  
BigBlueShock : 10/10/2015 4:09 pm : link
I can't think of one single positive thing that Buffalo did better than the Giants, yet some clowns say the score would have been 37-20 Buffalo without the penalties. The Giants outplayed them in every single phase of the game. Some people try so hard to sound objective that they just sound stupid instead.

There is just so much wrong with this line of thinking that I can't believe I even bothered to respond to it. Twice. Ugh....
RE: I loved the energy and relentlessness on D,  
mrvax : 10/10/2015 4:48 pm : link
In comment 12538484 BlueLou said:
Quote:

Lots to love, but still unconvinced.


Lou, the only thing you need to be convinced of is that they are now playing better than they have been in the last few years.
The Giants  
joeinpa : 10/10/2015 5:38 pm : link
have recovered from and 0-2 start and at least one ridiculous loss. They at the moment are relevant and have a chance to remain relevant for the remainder of the season.

However, the overreaction to this 2 game winning streak is almost as annoying as the overreaction to the 0-2 start.

The latter is especially true in regards to this defense. This defense is improved, obviously./. But it is still not a good defense and not one that can be trusted to get a stop when the game is on the line.

Some might indicate the goal line stand against Buffalo is evidence to the contrary. The stop was great, but after that, with the game very much in question, the Bills scored three touchdowns, two called back with penalties that had little bearing on the play.

They gave up 15 pts. against Washington in the 4th quarter and we all know what happened in the first two games.

Spags has made a difference...but when the game is on the line, and the opponent's offense is in full throttle, let's throw the ball mode, this defense has been mostly, defenseless.
BigBlueShock  
Red Dog : 10/10/2015 5:53 pm : link
How old are you?

The Offense is still  
Reb8thVA : 10/10/2015 6:10 pm : link
Maddingly inconsistent and is still a major concern to me
Is any team other than the Pats and Packers  
UConn4523 : 10/10/2015 6:17 pm : link
"Convinced"? Even if we started 4-0 it's the NFL and anything can happen. Odd way to look at things.
RE: BigBlueShock  
BigBlueShock : 10/10/2015 6:25 pm : link
In comment 12538727 Red Dog said:
Quote:
How old are you?

Wait, you decide that Buffalo beat themselves (Giants had nothing to do with the outcome) and the penalties that Buffalo had were the difference between the Giants winning by 2 TDs and Buffalo winning by 17 points. It's that's simple, to you. Everything else would have remained the same and apparently the Giants didn't have any penalties, except, they did, and a lot of them, including one OL downfield call that cost them a 35 yard gain on a screen (they would have been in the redbone, but instead had to punt).

And you ask how old I am? I wa wondering the same about you. I mean, why is it so freaking hard for some of you to give this team some credit? And again, the Giants outplayed Buffalo in every phase of the game, so your logic of Buffalo would have won by 17 points is absolutely mind boggling. That's all.
The team is improving, the arrow is.pointing up  
JonC : 10/10/2015 6:46 pm : link
Giants are also missing a handful of their best players. It's not just wins and losses, Lou, it's a process to build a winner and they're a work in progress.

Saying the Bills beat themselves isn't entirety genuine, imv. Giants were in control and the better team on the field for most of the game.
agree with joeinpa to some extent  
aquidneck : 10/10/2015 6:56 pm : link
The defense needs to continue to prove it. Despite good run stats and a nice game against the Bills, they projected to be below average before the season and with the 32nd ranked pass D are no better than still suspect and middle of the pack based on results so far.

But as others have said the arrow is pointing up. We don't know what the ceiling is yet.
RE: I mean  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 10/10/2015 7:24 pm : link
Quote:
I can't think of one single positive thing that Buffalo did better than the Giants, yet some clowns say the score would have been 37-20 Buffalo without the penalties. The Giants outplayed them in every single phase of the game. Some people try so hard to sound objective that they just sound stupid instead.


Some Giants "fans" love to piss all over the Giants, never have anything positive to say, and don't seem to actually like any Giants players, coaches, or management. It is a strange phenomenon that I don't understand.
Not excited yet  
hitchchops2 : 10/10/2015 7:55 pm : link
2-0 vs. Tyrod and Kirk, 0-2 vs. Romo and Ryan...however, just beating bad QB's should get us to 5-2 before Brees, so that's something
Confidence in the team grows or drops off with each game played.  
wgenesis123 : 10/10/2015 8:10 pm : link
The 90 Giants were 10-0 and I wasn't convinced. The 49ers were looking for a 3-peat and they were 10-0 too. If your convinced this early in the season it usually means your convinced they suck.
until we prove  
mdc1 : 10/10/2015 8:44 pm : link
that we can solve 3rd and long on both sides of the ball consistently we are an average team. I want to see how we do against elite QBs.
RE: To be the contrarian...  
Britt in VA : 10/10/2015 8:53 pm : link
In comment 12538485 okiegiant said:
Quote:
the Giants could(and should)have won 31-10.

If the other team is committing penalties you still have to capitalize of them.

Couldn't care less the Bills were short a couple of players when the Giants have been short players for the last 3 years.

The Oline looking better by the design of the offense isn't a bad thing, is it?

The Giants may not be Championship contenders but they are playing better than many of us expected.


Drop the mic. Nice post.
In the Great Grizz's defense  
grizz299 : 10/10/2015 10:24 pm : link

I called the Buffalo game noted that it could be easy BECAUSE they were without McCoy and Watkins..I saw a matchup problems where they didn't have enough skill players.

And, in fact, the game wasn't close. With those players Buffalo is a different team.

So? We dominated a good team not a superb team. I don't see how that can be anything but confirming.
We saw the emergence of a run game against one of the best fronts of recent years. Flowers with a bad ankle played well against a stud. The maligned Newhouse neutralized a great Def.end. That's what you're looking for, it was all positive and answering the question of how good we can be.
Going into this season it was fair to say...this team will go as far as the question marks on the O Line and the Safety position will allow us too. Well, those are coming up positive.
At this juncture every single unit of the team save two looks strong. TE and a strong pass rush. Solve those and I"d say we're a strong contender, without them I think we're a contender.
That's enough for now..I also don't think this team is facing the same strength of opposition that the other superbowl clubs did. Green Bay seems to me to be the strongest of the bunch and I don't know that we could beat them or even the Cards. Mercifully, we catch the Cowboys on the 25th. before Romo comes back. I think Seattle will suffer from the cap eating salary that Wilson got.
Usually a surprise team will emerge but if you want to arbitrarily call those four teams the most logical serious contenders I think it's increasingly obvious that we belong in the conversation.
BlueLou we arent playing flawless  
Coach Mason : 10/10/2015 10:27 pm : link
But have had 2 score leads in each fourth Q of all 4 games.

And this team is still gelling and developing a new identity.

If the key players stay healthy, and TC doesnt meddle too much in the offense I think this team can be really really strong.
A couple of thoughts to so many well thought out responses:  
BlueLou : 10/11/2015 2:12 am : link
I agree the arrow is pointing up and that a lot of young players are contributing towards that. Several are recent draft choices: Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Kennard, Hankins, Collins, OBJ and even Hosley finally. Others were UFA/UDFA pickups like Wynn and Unga. Play on STs coverage has really picked up...

Re the penalties benefiting the Giants, looking at the yardage difference and claiming the Bills weren't that much more penalized than the Giants is IMO BS. Red Dog's comment points out the specifics of the penalties were much worse for the Bills, and several times the penalties called really had little or no impact on the play - like Tyrod's TD run. We caught some huge breaks!

Agree that our injuries to JPP and Cruz and Beatty are as hurtfull as the Bills' injuries. But at least Beatty's absence has been pretty well covered by little Ereck...

If I see the effort, intensity, and urgency of play keep up, that alone will make me pleased even if the Giants don't win the division this year.
OL  
stretch234 : 10/11/2015 7:52 am : link
The OL looking good in pass protection is not just based upon quick release. Watch the blocking - Eli has time if he wants to throw deeper - he is not getting defenders in his face up the middle

NE did the same thing to Buffalo - it is a great game plan against that type of defense

RE: A couple of thoughts to so many well thought out responses:  
BigBlueShock : 10/11/2015 8:51 am : link
In comment 12539682 BlueLou said:
Quote:
I agree the arrow is pointing up and that a lot of young players are contributing towards that. Several are recent draft choices: Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Kennard, Hankins, Collins, OBJ and even Hosley finally. Others were UFA/UDFA pickups like Wynn and Unga. Play on STs coverage has really picked up...

Re the penalties benefiting the Giants, looking at the yardage difference and claiming the Bills weren't that much more penalized than the Giants is IMO BS. Red Dog's comment points out the specifics of the penalties were much worse for the Bills, and several times the penalties called really had little or no impact on the play - like Tyrod's TD run. We caught some huge breaks!

Agree that our injuries to JPP and Cruz and Beatty are as hurtfull as the Bills' injuries. But at least Beatty's absence has been pretty well covered by little Ereck...

If I see the effort, intensity, and urgency of play keep up, that alone will make me pleased even if the Giants don't win the division this year.

BlueLou, you can say "IMO BS" all you want. The Giants had 11 penalties for 85. The Bills had 17 penalties and many of them were in the last few minutes when they decided the game was over and they were just gonna get in some cheap shots. And several of the Giants penalties negated some very big plays and instead forced punts. Go back and look for yourself. Penalties are part of the game. How you can just say "if they didn't happen, team A would have won" is ridiculous. It's like saying that if Buffalo ran the ball better, played better specials and played better defense, they'd have won. It just seems like some people look for any reason whatsoever to be negative. Red Dog says take away the Buffalo penalties and they win by 17. I say that is absurd on a million different levels. How anyone could have watched that game and come away with that opinion is beyond me. The Giants were clearly the better team and in control the entire game. And again, they had some pretty bad penalties too. They just didn't "pad the stats" with them with cheap shots in garbage time like Buffalo did.
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