Mets lineup
1. Curtis Granderson, RF
2. David Wright, 3B
3. Daniel Murphy, 2B
4. Yoenis Cespedes, CF
5. Lucas Duda, 1B
6. Travis d'Arnaud, C
7. Michael Conforto, LF
8. Ruben Tejada, SS
9. Noah Syndergaard, SP
Dodgers lineup
1. Howie Kendrick, 2B
2. Corey Seager, SS
3. Adrian Gonzalez, 1B
4. Justin Turner, 3B
5. Andre Ethier, RF
6. Carl Crawford, LF
7. Yasmani Grandal, C
8. Enrique Hernandez, CF
9. Zack Greinke, SP
Let's go Mets!!!
- sphinx
Doesn't make sense to keep the better player on the bench in case you need a pinch hitter. I'm not bashing Tejada but I don't get him starting at all.
Mets are playing with house money tonight.
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Flores would be a better pinch hit option than Tejada in a big spot
Doesn't make sense to keep the better player on the bench in case you need a pinch hitter. I'm not bashing Tejada but I don't get him starting at all.
Tejada must have new pictures of Collins.
Eh, I know I'm probably in the minority but I don't think he's better defensively. At least, not by any large margin. I'd rather have the better offensive player in the game. I'm absolutely fine with Flores' defense. Tejada has the range of a one-armed koala bear.
Then why did he go with Cuddyer over Legares with a flyball pitcher like Degrom on the mound?
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with better defensive SS. That's why Flores is on bench.
Eh, I know I'm probably in the minority but I don't think he's better defensively. At least, not by any large margin. I'd rather have the better offensive player in the game. I'm absolutely fine with Flores' defense. Tejada has the range of a one-armed koala bear.
I was a little surprised to read that they both have similar OPS - Flores' Ops is .703 Tejada's is .688.
2. Continuing to use Clippard in the 8th
3. Tejada over Flores
I'm not crapping on Tejada...I just don't think the lineup is better with Tejada over Flores. I'm glad he worked a walk last night when Kershaw was losing it. Doesn't change things.
Was that Collins on the mound striking out 13? Shit, my eyes are deceiving me these days. He is not above reproach. And I think taking Duda out in the 8th was a mistake, Murphy's great play notwithstanding.
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Let's not question Collins. He earned it
Was that Collins on the mound striking out 13? Shit, my eyes are deceiving me these days. He is not above reproach. And I think taking Duda out in the 8th was a mistake, Murphy's great play notwithstanding.
Well he's the manager, you're not , you don't like it go find another team.
#teamtejada
2. Continuing to use Clippard in the 8th
3. Tejada over Flores
I agree with #1. Hopefully Conforto does something good tonight because I completely agree that Cuddyer is a liability as a starter.
My bad lol
Let's get nasty , let's get heroic , let's go mets !!
Ya gotta believe !
Very very small sample size.
Mike, he has had only 14 ABs vs. Lefties. Tough to draw that conclusion over such a small sample size. Although I wouldn't object to your proposed alignment w/ Lagares over Cuddyer.
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I'll be just fine with that!
#teamtejada
I've missed you :)
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only good vibes.........
My bad lol
Let's get nasty , let's get heroic , let's go mets !!
Ya gotta believe !
There you go!!! Let's step on their necks tonight! And then sleep with their wives haha.
(sorry, a little superstitious now, I typed this in last night's game thread)
(sorry, a little superstitious now, I typed this in last night's game thread)
If you were truly superstitious then you would repost the exact post (without the explanation)...in fact, I insist lol.
FC - ( New Window )
Fucking.
Go!!!
C'mon. a .481 OPS versus lefties in 15 PAs is meaningful?
Also, this is the best "expert" crew I have ever seen. Sheffield was excellent on how you have to approach Greinke.
Pedro says Mets lineup doesn't have any holes. No easy outs to give the pitcher breathing room
WTF does that mean?
they got 5 hits and k'd 13 times against deGrom, how is it a bad thing if Thor is too similar to deGrom.
I hope he is. LOL.
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Has a .481 OPS versus lefties. Even Tejada isn't that low. If he is not playing Cespedes should be in LF with Lagares in CF. Cuddyer offers more value knowing how to approach situations as a PH late in games if Los Angeles goes to a lefty
C'mon. a .481 OPS versus lefties in 15 PAs is meaningful?
It's meaningful enough that you don't try and experiment in the playoffs in order to try and prove it wrong.
love the Murph's reaction. - ( New Window )
let's gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Dickey is actually doing pretty well for them this season.
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How the hell the TOR trade this kid?
Dickey is actually doing pretty well for them this season.
They were talking about this in one of his last starts of the season. TOR didn't think he'd develop his off speed stuff. Gary then said someone in the mets own organization (wouldn't say who) said they didn't see him as more than a 3 starter for the same reason
Lol!!!
Kind of like the Mets trading Fulmer for Cespes, they were going for it at the time and trying to make a push.
Conforto!!!
So he can't get the perfect game, I'm still holding out for the no hitter (grin)
Lol!!!
Haha. ;)
that was a nasty pitch. yeah it would have been ball 4, but hard to lay off that.
Yea looked like he was having a good time
he had plenty of rest prior to the series why wouldn't he be?
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but was there any comment on if Familia is available to close tonight?
he had plenty of rest prior to the series why wouldn't he be?
4 out save last night, a lot of times they won't pitch him the next day regardless of prior rest if he throws more than an inning (just in general).
That was ball 4
There have been 47 Dodgers batters in this series, and 19 have struck out. That is 40.4%.
I agree 100% and the pitch counts are so arbitrary anyway. I love this Tom Seaver quote.
You dont leave him on the vine to die, but you do increase his workload.
Come on Noah
(and as I type this, wright grounds into another DP).
just as the doctor ordered! We might see Syndergaard in the 7th after all.
Why not Robles or Reed?
Why not Robles or Reed?
Kendrick 2 for 22 and more likely to get DP
This gets personal.
The umpire blew the call
Reed should pick off 2nd base a few times.
He never touched the bag. Someone? Anyone???
But we all know Flores is winning the game.
The pitcher needs to step off an challenge, then he should be called out.
seriously. fucking bullshit play all around.
If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.
Should be just the runner on 1st and 2 out
Fucking dirt bag
Amateur hour in baseball.
How? Utley barrel-rolled him
Game over
WTF?
Neighborhood plays are NOT reviewable
He never touched the bag!
Are you insane?
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Utley pulled there.
How? Utley barrel-rolled him
Tejada had time to at least touch the bag and failed to. Tejada looked at the runner the whole time instead of making the play.
Glad we have nothing to be concerned about with the bullpen.
This may be the first and only time I ever agree with you
According to the rule posted above, the runner and batter should have been out.
Dumb, meaningless moves are Collin's forte.
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Should have been 2 out with the runner on 1st for Seager, who should have been the 3rd out...
According to the rule posted above, the runner and batter should have been out.
Interference would be a very hard call there because Utley was close to the bag when he slid and Kendrick was virtually on 1st when it happened
Come on Niese, hit the next dodger
This. Wonder if it was reviewable?
Fuck MLB officiating. Just as bad as NFL officiating
Completely indefensible how that replay was butchered considering it probably wasn't even 100% conclusive AND Utley never touched the base AND he clearly went in with a very dirty slide.
The umps made a horrendous call on review putting Utley back on 2nd when he never touched 2nd. That was the 2nd out and Seager's pop up would have been the 3rd out with the score 2-2
Bounce back Monday. Nothin else we can do but Collins and team need to look themselves in the mirror on this one
But, Darling going on about stepping off an appealing is off base, I think. Once Utley was placed at 2B, there is no appeal. So, it may have been wrong to call him safe, but it was already reviewed. Once they overturned the call on the field (I don't know how), he was legally/safely placed at 2B and that;s that.
Glad we have nothing to be concerned about with the bullpen.
Then he pulled Colon for no reason. Bartolo got a DP ball
TV ratings needs a 5 game series.
I hope Harvey throws a wild pitch into the Dodgers dugout on Monday!!!
Especially when you know Reed is better starting innings and not coming in the middle. As we always say. Learn your players Collins.
The fact we got fucked out of an out and at least one of those runs is just cherry on top of shit. the manner is so insipid.
But, Darling going on about stepping off an appealing is off base, I think. Once Utley was placed at 2B, there is no appeal. So, it may have been wrong to call him safe, but it was already reviewed. Once they overturned the call on the field (I don't know how), he was legally/safely placed at 2B and that;s that.
Yeah and I thought the neighborhood play wasn't reviewable so it really makes no sense.
You bean Adrian Gonzalez or hopefully Justin Turner.
Turner could have been safely "placed" on first in the game context.
So, has replay taken away the neighborhood play...and if so, is MLB seeing more injuries on this type of play?
But so much for starting Tejada for defense. Make sure of one
The rules are fine. The people implementing them are messed up.
Also Travis needs to stop k'ing
you have to
Carrying water for MLB. Twitter is eviscerating this. It's a scandal already.
We got ump'd plain and simple
I'd like to seee Plawecki catch game 3.
He is talking about the spin, which was completely stupid. You have no chance of turning the DP after that spin with Kendrick running. It was a bad defensive play by Tejada. I'm sorry he got hurt but that doesnt change that he made a poor decision
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He can't be serious
Carrying water for MLB. Twitter is eviscerating this. It's a scandal already.
He sure must want that Nationals job.
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You can't make this shit up.
He is talking about the spin, which was completely stupid. You have no chance of turning the DP after that spin with Kendrick running. It was a bad defensive play by Tejada. I'm sorry he got hurt but that doesnt change that he made a poor decision
Fine. What the hell does that have to do with the slide? Ripken said it's not as bad as it looks because of what Tejada did. That's irrelevant. It wasn't a slide. There was zero attempt to slide. He just ran into him and broke his leg. Fuck him and fuck Ripken's kiss MLB ass analysis. At least Darling politely told him how stupid he sounded.
way to ruin a competitive game with bullshit calls.
It takes one dirty player to know another I guess
pretty much. fuck utley...fuck the dodgers...fuck mlb
1. Did Tejada touch the bag? unclear by replay
2. Was it a neighborhood play or was he pulled off the bag by the throw? unclear
3. Was Utley's slide legal or late? seemed clearly late, but they never call that
4. Did Utley ever touch second? Should he be awarded 2B? seems clear that there's no reason he should have gotten 2B since he didn't even slide to the base at all.
But somehow the Umps and MLB in NY will try to spin that they correctly answered each of those questions and made the right call. Total farce.
2) Had a leg planted
3) If that slide happened any later it would've been in between innings.
4) if you call that a slide rather than a tackle, well, sucks to your assmar.
X-rays on Ruben Tejada were positive. He fractured his right fibula. There goes his postseason. #Mets
35 retweets 7 favorites
fuck. They better inform his teammates
pitchers almost never react the way you think they should or will to stuff like this.
the Mets had to practically beg Shawn Estes to throw at Clemens and he threw a curve ball behind him.
I'd expect no reaction.
Hope I'm wrong.
Tejada is a better defensive SS than Flores. But not that much better. Flores has hit Greinke well. Gotta go with flores.
Reed has not pitched well when brought in the middle of an inning. He was sent to the minors for poor pitching earlier in the season. This is a guy you want to ease in. Colon has been in baseball for almost 20 years. Collins goes with every shaky vet in the lineup but then takes out Colon?
And it's a broken leg.
Chase Utley is a fucking piece of shit - ( New Window )
Knock LA out of the playoffs. Starting a brawl plays into the hands of the inferior team, which is clearly the Dodgers.
Sending them home is the best payback
He should be suspended
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.
He should be suspended
That would mean MLB admitting they fucked up the call
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.
He should be suspended
Yeah he should be but I don't see how he will be with how they explained the ruling and changed the call.
And that was the quickest review I saw the entire season by the umps. Hmmmm...
Even if we do retaliate, we will be the ones to get fined and suspended. Just a major screwjob all the way around.
The bench should have cleared.
He better hide in his hotel next week
You can hear how incensed Darling is. It's only matched Ripkin's idiocy insisting that it was a baseball play. Fuck him.
He met marlon byrd who introduced him to peds
I am staying up just to see Keith on SNY postgame.
Slim and None are ahead of him in the lineup.
I'm sick of Collins. Hit a friggin Dodger. The guy never retaliates and then the basically threw Robles under the bus when Hansel finally did something about it.
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When/how did a garbage player like Justin Turner become good?
He met marlon byrd who introduced him to peds
Wouldn't surprise me. I mean seriously, how did Turner become good?
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but he can't on a national broadcast.
I am staying up just to see Keith on SNY postgame.
I can't watch, if anyone could summarize what Keith says.
Yeah, it was dirty. But the BS about Murphy pulling Tejada off the bag was total BS.
Not really. He is paid an unreal sum to back up howie Kendrick and pinch hit in the 7th inning. He is not important enough to send home. He is a has been loser.
Reed has a good arm. But there is a reason Padres sent him to the minors this year
My problem is him not being out. How is he not out?
Let's get home.
But Sheff also said, Tejada never should have turned his back on the runner. That it was a bad play by both him and Murph. It was a DP that should have been turned.
If Harvey plunks the first guy first pitch... Can he be ejected immediately? Or does there have to be warning first?
As much as I want payback... Winning is payback.
It should have been. All the attention is on Utley's slide but that was a DP you have to turn. Colon did exactly what you wanted: got a DP grounder
If Harvey plunks the first guy first pitch... Can he be ejected immediately? Or does there have to be warning first?
As much as I want payback... Winning is payback.
They can warn them before the game. Then Harvey would get tossed. That's why you have to hit a Dodger in the 8th.
I don't think he said that. Said they handled it well.
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Please tell me I heard that wrong.
I don't think he said that. Said they handled it well.
He absolutely said the umps made the right call. Clearly doesn't want to get fined.
Collins just said no.
Yeah, your player got hurt, and Utley did it. Jesus, show a little anger!
Yeah, right. Terry is being super Machiavellian. Do you actually believe the crap you write?
Well they did it anyway...soooo, what's the point?
So, all those mangers who argue strenously and get throw out are fools?Because MLB is going to screw them. And Terry is the only smart one?
C'mon dude. I know you like Collins but you are smarter than that.
No need to put MLB on notice.
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what do you want Collins to say??? Would you rather he say "we're gonna throw 99 at a guy's head" or just be low key and actually fucking do it? You think the guy is happy or believes any of this shit is legit? My god people wake up.
Yeah, right. Terry is being super Machiavellian. Do you actually believe the crap you write?
I believe what I write. You either are emotional and don't care what makes sense, you just want blood - which would be at least reasonable - or you think the manager is ho hum and doesn't give a shit that his SS was brutally injured on a dirty play that also cost his team the game. Which would make you a fucking idiot. So I assume the first possibility. I believe what I just wrote.
Seth: you got to hit some one in the 8th inning. C'mon. Then baseball will issue a warning for the next game and its all good. But you can't just let them get away with it. And you don't want to put Harvey in a position where he might get tossed.
And this is not the first time with Collins. He never retaliates.
He's a wimp. Which is why the Mets never retaliate.
Thats what I am saying!!! Exactly!! How does the damn league rationalize not only allowing a dirty ass play, and a brutal injury, but then reward the fucking dirty play with a base and the damn game?!?! This whole thing makes me too pissed off...it just makes me not even want to watch this fucking sport.
Not to mention the call at first base where that asshole tried to call Grandy out when hes three feet passed the fucking bag when that piece of shit catches the throw!!!! Was there money on this goddamned game?>!>?
OUT - ( New Window )
Next game we need to take a big lead, get Harvey out of the game and have someone who throws hard throw fucking hard at someone's jaw.
This whole thing makes baseball look so completely lost and clueless how to run their sport or know and enforce their rules. DW is asking all these questions in a nice way but honestly the league office has to realize that it makes their sport illegitimate. They can all go fuck themselves and whoever the first and second base umpires are, they need to be fired as a common courtesy.
They literally changed a rule that existed forever because Buster Posey got injured on a legal freak play. Yet on this play, nothing about it is legal and yet not only is it called wrong but the team that does it benefits from it.
Fuck MLB. Nothing they do should be taken seriously and they won't get a dime of my money ever.
What other mangers would say, "Robles said the ball got away from him. We are not trying to hurt anybody. Hansel knows that and he is sorry the ball went there."
That's how you handle it. What Terry said is throwing your player under the bus. Everybody knows Robles threw at him. But you protect your player
i may be a yanks fan, but i'm also a fan of baseball...and i hate when horseshit like that play destroys a game.
Dirty play, but within the rules. Its just BS that he was called safe. He never touched the bag because the umps called him out? Well Tejada never tagged him because the ump called him out. Why doesnt that matter? What if should not be the standard. What actually happened should be. If the runner should be responsible to always touch the bag in those scenarios or be called out. So pathetic.
What other mangers would say, "Robles said the ball got away from him. We are not trying to hurt anybody. Hansel knows that and he is sorry the ball went there."
That's how you handle it. What Terry said is throwing your player under the bus. Everybody knows Robles threw at him. But you protect your player
Dude your Collins hate is getting really obnoxious
Save it for another night
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When Robles threw at the guy, Terry said after the game, "you can't throw it up there."
What other mangers would say, "Robles said the ball got away from him. We are not trying to hurt anybody. Hansel knows that and he is sorry the ball went there."
That's how you handle it. What Terry said is throwing your player under the bus. Everybody knows Robles threw at him. But you protect your player
Dude your Collins hate is getting really obnoxious
Save it for another night
Your continual defense of everything Collins does is pathetic. And if you can't understand why someone would be upset, I don't know what to tell you.
And, just for the record, I don't hate Collins. I actually think he is an OK manager over all because the players and media both like him, which is an accomplishment in NY. I just don't like his bullpen management and the way he handles these situations like tonight.
If you don't like my posts don't read them, to be honest, I generally skip yours
That would have been fun...robles would have gotten his ass kicked though
Exactly. He was already past the bag when the umpire made the out call.
He's not out of the baseline in that video though...but I agree he should have been called out because he never touched 2nd
Your team is angry
Your fans are in despair
Gotham needs you.
Get nasty and finish this.
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Should've hit puig and got it really going
That would have been fun...robles would have gotten his ass kicked though
I don't know about that. Robles is kinda psycho and Puig already backed down from Bumgarner
I'm going to break this down real simple and this is the base level way this is fucked up
They are calling the tackler safe because the umpire called him out and then when reviewed, was judged to be safe because the neighborhood play was judged to be not in effect due to the lack of likelihood of the double play happening....yet the tackle (slide) was judged to be legal because he was trying to break up .... a play that was judged to not be possible. Which would make the slide illegal because there was no reason to break up anything if the play was not possible!!!
THIS IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT.
If the mets were planning on retaliation on Utley because he will certainly get it from them if not this series then whatever team he's on next year. If would be funny mattingly tried to use his potential plunking during a close and late situation.
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In comment 12539640 Vanzetti said:
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When Robles threw at the guy, Terry said after the game, "you can't throw it up there."
What other mangers would say, "Robles said the ball got away from him. We are not trying to hurt anybody. Hansel knows that and he is sorry the ball went there."
That's how you handle it. What Terry said is throwing your player under the bus. Everybody knows Robles threw at him. But you protect your player
Dude your Collins hate is getting really obnoxious
Save it for another night
Your continual defense of everything Collins does is pathetic. And if you can't understand why someone would be upset, I don't know what to tell you.
And, just for the record, I don't hate Collins. I actually think he is an OK manager over all because the players and media both like him, which is an accomplishment in NY. I just don't like his bullpen management and the way he handles these situations like tonight.
If you don't like my posts don't read them, to be honest, I generally skip yours
Lol you're a joke
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In comment 12539627 KWhite2250 said:
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Should've hit puig and got it really going
That would have been fun...robles would have gotten his ass kicked though
I don't know about that. Robles is kinda psycho and Puig already backed down from Bumgarner
MadBum is a badass though...Robles just pretends to be one
I guess they could argue Tejada knew his foot wasn't on the bag, so he should have tagged him so that the play could not be overturned. He might have if his leg wasn't broken on a dirty take out
it really bothers me how much skirting there was from Torre too...expected more from him, but it just seems like everyone is in "toe the line" speak at the moment.
tired of officiating ruining things like this...you'd think with the technology developed, that shit like this would happen LESS. obviously on a much different scale, but its just like the damn ball batting in MNF this week...ruined the damn game.
in this case, there was at least a fucking replay and they STILL got it wrong. unreal. i feel your pain man.
Lol you're a joke
You are the guy who argued that Collins was deliberately using Parnell because he knew he would fuck up. So I would think twice about calling anyone a joke.
But what ever. Have a good night. We're both Met fans and it was tough loss.
Is pissed. No way the team is not seething on the plane. They need to get on the same page though, go for blood first or forget it and just win baby.
The thing about tagging Utley was just grasping at straws. The guy ran off the field. If Utley had tried to scramble back to the bag, Tejada probably would have tagged him.
The worst part of the entire thing is MLB rewarded the dirty play when it was well within their abilities to fairly and accurately call him out - be it the neighborhood play, the fact that he never touched the base, or the fact that it was a dirty fucking play that deserved to be called an out for making no attempt at the bag. That's the part that's shameful, because 2 out and a man on first is a completely different ballgame. You could make a perfectly justifiable argument for applying the rulebook automatic DP, but no question in my mind the least defensible and fair thing they could have done, is exactly what transpired.
Eric Byrnes on MLB network was fantastic. He said it was 100% a dirty play but he 100% understood why Utley did it, because you are taught from day 1 to "get a body on the middle infielder to break up the double play". He was sick over the play and viscerally angry because the only way to get plays like that out of the game is by the MLB enforcing the rules and tonight they did the exact opposite of that at the highest levels of the league offices in Chelsea Market. What happened tonight is only going encourage more plays like that in the short term and it all could have been easily avoided by just calling Utley out.
I wish the Mets would have just hit Puig tonight to not make retaliation a central storyline over the next few days. This has the feel of the Clemens situation where it was talked about so much and the reality is it should have been handled then and there. Oh well, got the split, this is why you wanted Matt Harvey on the mound in game 3.
it really bothers me how much skirting there was from Torre too...expected more from him, but it just seems like everyone is in "toe the line" speak at the moment.
tired of officiating ruining things like this...you'd think with the technology developed, that shit like this would happen LESS. obviously on a much different scale, but its just like the damn ball batting in MNF this week...ruined the damn game.
in this case, there was at least a fucking replay and they STILL got it wrong. unreal. i feel your pain man.
well i apprciate it but I don't think you really CAN feel my pain because not only did the team lose the game and a middle infielder who was truly playing for his fielding - even though they have a far better hitter on the bench - because they felt middle infield D is that important in this series. (and of course he gets hurt on a dirty play in the field by the same piece of shit that has done this to him before) but it also ruins my interest level. Honestly how a bunch of officials the league office saw the play and it resulted how it did is beyond any explanation and it just sucks all the honestly from the game. Utley jumped into a guy's leg a good 2 feet from second base as a way to break up a double play that the league then said was not possible and therefore awarded the base to Utley....who never even intended on being safe at the base. THe reason he was even where he was, was because he wasn't even trying to beat the play. He knew he was out. Yet the league called him safe...
This is truly the worst call and worst job by an organized pro sports league that has ever occurred and I challenge anyone to find me and the rest of the Met fans here an example of something worse.
It can be a new strategy in baseball. Run back to the clubhouse and lock the door, you can never be called out. Games will last for days.
Bias much? The right call was made. He didn't touch the bag.
I think they only realized that afterwards and then to cover up their original gaffe, they ruled Utley safe.
It's clearly the neighborhood play. The throw did not pull Tejada off the bag as they claimed. He was not yet at the bag when he caught it. The spin occurred after he "touched" the bag. If Tejada had completed the DP, it would have been a DP. They never in a million years would have said he didn't touch the bag.
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This is truly the worst call and worst job by an organized pro sports league that has ever occurred and I challenge anyone to find me and the rest of the Met fans here an example of something worse.
Bias much? The right call was made. He didn't touch the bag.
I'm biased sometimes. In this case I'm not. On the other hand the only way it makes sense to you that he is safe because Tejada missed the bag, is if you're biased against the team that got fucked over here.
Here's a very very quick and clean explanation why. Nah actually screw that shit, this is going to be long and more than you care to read and frankly I don't give a damn because I am livid just like every other Met fan who saw that debacle last night:
If you watch baseball...and I think you do...you've seen a SS run a Double Play usually multiple times in a game. You've obviously also seen a Neighborhood Play then, since it occurs nearly every time there's a double play. In this case, Tejada was likely even closer to the base to turn a DP than a fielder usually is on those plays. Your bias may be ruining your memory of the play so here:
Wait, what's that you say? The ump said it wasn't a Neighborhood call? Well obviously he said it wasn't because check it out:
Notwithstanding the foregoing, the following calls will not be subject to review:
The Umpire's judgment that a runner is clearly out on a force play at second base under circumstances in which the defensive player may or may not have touched second base in his attempt to complete a double play and avoid a collision with the runner. All other elements of the call shall be subject to review, including whether the fielder caught the ball, had control of the ball, was drawn off the bag, or tagged the runner. In this regard, a determination as to whether the fielder made a catch before dropping the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch shall be reviewable[/b]
So the play wouldn't have been reviewable if it was a Neighborhood call. Right? We can agree on what we just read? Or is bias getting in the way? Obviously being a MLB Umpire requires that knowledge. Let's say that Ump is as pathetically abysmal and clueless as he was and is...surely one or all of the other Umps would know that rule. Right? Ok ok, let's say the whole crew was a joke and clueless how to officiate their sport. That would be a major problem since they are officiating a NLDS game. Let's assume for the sake of this discussion that in fact the whole damn crew is lost and not qualified to officiate the game. We can and should then assume that the fucking league office knows the rules. Right? Cool because I think we both agree that there's no way the League doesn't know what's in their own rule book nor were capable of looking it up.
With all of that cleared up, the Umps and the League office likely knew the rule yet they allowed the review to take place. Why the hell would they do that? Now even though they broke their own rule, you can just look at that picture up there and figure out that it was complete and total horseshit lies that they didn't think it was a DP in progress. Check it out...the 2nd base Ump either has eyes in the back of his head or was full of shit. He's staring right at the base and the play was to the middle of the infield so it would require am amazingly piss poor call to think a DP was out of the question
Ok, ok, ok fiiiiiiiiine. Let's think about it further and even use an example on another play of why it does't matter whether the SS even eats it and doesn't make the throw. This example repeats the rule from the rule book and explains why. This is from a play this year in Cleveland:
The Tigers had runners on first and third with one out in the second inning when Ian Kinsler hit a broken-bat slow roller to Cleveland Indians shortstop Francisco Lindor. Lindor made an odd-looking, looping throw to second baseman Jason Kipnis, who didn't touch the bag at second base as Jose Iglesias slid in.
Kipnis knew he didn't have any chance to make a relay to first base in time to get Kinsler, so he held on to the ball as Jose Iglesias was ruled out at second base.
It was clear that Kipnis did not touch the bag, but the replay rule regarding the play makes it clear that it will not be reviewed. From the second in the rulebook regarding "reviewable calls":
"Notwithstanding the foregoing, the following calls will not be subject to review: The Umpire's judgment that a runner is clearly out on a force play at second base under circumstances in which the defensive player may or may not have touched second base in his attempt to complete a double play and avoid a collision with the runner. All other elements of the call shall be subject to review, including whether the fielder caught the ball, had control of the ball, was drawn off the bag, or tagged the runner. In this regard, a determination as to whether the fielder made a catch before dropping the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch shall be reviewable."
Second-base umpire Lance Barksdale either missed the call entirely or ruled that Kipnis was making "an attempt to complete a double play and avoid a collision with the runner" -- language straight from the rule above -- in ruling Iglesias out at second base.
Whether or not Kipnis made the throw to first does not determine whether the play is reviewable. That makes sense. Would it make any sense to allow an infielder to eliminate replay from consideration simply by making a very late throw to first?
The play last night is a an obvious DP ball with a turn about to happen. Joe Torre can bullshit night and day to defend the league but he's just a politician now and he's wrong. Utley the Dirty Douchebag even stated the obvious in his interviews. Why the hell else would he lunge/slide at a SS if there wasn't a DP in progress about to happen? Go even further! Why would he not even make a passing attempt at hitting second base? You may be biased and think he did. Nah, look:
Maybe after the illegal slide, he went back to the base? Nah he just looked at the badly injured player who's career he just likely ended and went across the field to his dugout. So he knew he was out already, illegally slid, badly injured a player (who he only injured because of how illegal his slide was, and how far he had to veer to his right to not bother with the base and take out the SS.
So now that we know I'm not biased in this case but just not a fucking moron like the entire MLB, what occurred was this:
- DP ball to the middle of the field
- Tejada catches ball and readies himself to at least make an attempt at the DP
- The runner makes no attempt to ever reach the base and appeared to be out by a good 5-10 steps
- He goes from the natural baseline, at least a few feet to his right to try a takeout slide and doesn't bother to slide anywhere he can hit the base, in fact he starts his fucking slide PAST the fucking base. His only goal was to break up the DP ---that the umpires and Joe Torre in all his lying glory (without actually knowing the rule nor how it was applied) state was not possible and therefore reviewable as a play where the Neighborhood play did't apply....even though the runner who brutally and illegally hit the SS was trying to break up that very DP.
- In the end, the umpires decide that even though the review should never have even been legal, showed that Tejada missed the base.
- Of course the fucking baserunner ALSO missed the base. Never even came close. Never made an attempt to get back to it.
- Because the runner is called out, he runs across the diamond without ever touching the base. No Met cares to tag the runner who is off the base because he's already been called out by the pathetic umpire at 2nd base.
- And the grand finale!!! An out is REMOVED from the board, and the baserunner is put back on 2nd into scoring position because according to some random loophole that even Mr. Torre was incredulous about, if the umpire made a mistake in calling the runner out, the runner gets to go back to the base that he never touched and never made an attempt at reaching.
THank you for your time. You can use this info to explain to your buddies how the whole MLB basically did all they could to hand the Dodgers a win, allow them back into the series, reward the very player who illegally took out a SS with the most blatant illegal takeout slide any of us have seen in recent memory (if not even longer than that, maybe ever) by then giving him the base he never reached, and stole an out from the Mets that the umpire himself called as he stood 3 feet from the fucking base and changed the series.
Hope you enjoyed that biased long ass reality check I just posted.
NCAA Force-Play-Slide Rule (NCAA Rule 8, Section 4):
The intent of the force-play-slide rule is to ensure the safety of all players. This is a safety and an interference
rule. Whether the defense could have completed the double play has no bearing on the applicability of this
rule. This rule pertains to a force-play situation at any base, regardless of the number of outs.
a. On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line betw
the two bases. It is permissible for the sliders momentum to carry him through the base in the
baseline extended.
c. Actions by a runner are illegal and interference shall be called if:
1. The runner slides or runs out of the base line in the direction of the fielder and alters the play of
a fielder (with or without contact).
2. The runner uses a rolling or cross-body slide and either makes contact with or alters the
play of a fielder;
3. The runners raised leg makes contact higher than the fielders knee when in a standing position;
4. The runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg; or
5. The runner illegally slides toward or contacts the fielder even if the fielder makes no attempt to
throw to complete a play.
Penalty for 1-5
1. With less than two outs, the batter-runner, as well as the interfering runner, shall be
declared out and no other runner (s) shall advance.
2. With two outs, the interfering runner shall be declared out and no other runner(s) shall
advance.
3. If the runners slide or collision is flagrant, the runner shall be ejected from the contest.
A.R. - If the bases are loaded with no outs, a double-play attempt is made, and
interference is called, all other runners must return to their original bases
- I'm very surprised the call got overturned... they usually don't overturn the neighborhood call. Not overturning calls based on the "spirit" of the rule has been a 50-50 proposition.
- Utley should've been out, but they shouldn't have been given the double play.
- I'm very surprised the call got overturned... they usually don't overturn the neighborhood call. Not overturning calls based on the "spirit" of the rule has been a 50-50 proposition.
- Utley should've been out, but they shouldn't have been given the double play.
Phillies or Yankees?
Blueprint is Harvey dominate, bats beat the crap out of non Kershaw/Geinke starter, Harvey plug Utley with a 99MPH fastball, preferably on his knee
Really can't understand pro sports leagues sometimes. The ump/ref crew fucked this one up. It would have been better to admit as much, and just say 'well, human error, nothing we can do about it now' than to dance around and try to justify a series of bewildering judgement calls. Instead, you're going to get a lot of lawyering and more angry fans.
Quote:
This is truly the worst call and worst job by an organized pro sports league that has ever occurred and I challenge anyone to find me and the rest of the Met fans here an example of something worse.
Bias much? The right call was made. He didn't touch the bag.
No, moron the right call was not made - he should have been called out for not even remotely attempting to touch the base. Should have been double play, inning over.
But we know you're too stupid to understand that.
Here's an example of a rule that was created for player safety - and a player was deliberately injured as a result of the rule's violation, only to not enforce the rule on that play.
I'm not saying a player should have to get hurt for them to enforce it, but it's a lot easier to wave it off when it's 'that looked borderline, someone could have been hurt' than 'that looked dirty, and the guy he took out broke his leg'.
And how they not only don't do that, but somehow bring Utley back onto the field when he ran off without ever touching the bag is something I'll never be able to understand. Doesn't seem to hold up to either the rule or a common sense interpretation. Really a bad night for MLB officiating.
I can't find anything in the rulebook as it stands or is interpreted that would call was Utley did as "interference" to make him out automatically.
It was as late a slide as you could have while actually being a slide, and the intention was to break up the double play. Unfortunately, MLB has allowed slides intending to break up double plays for as long as baseball has existed, and have yet to institute a "Buster Posey Rule" to specifically address this play. MLB should do that in order to protect middle infielders, and that's on MLB.
5.09 Making an Out
(a) (6.05) Retiring the Batter
A batter is out when:
intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to
catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to
complete any play;
Rule 5.09
43
Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment): The
objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate,
unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in
leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the
pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base.
Obviously this is an umpires judgment play.
This would apply to whether Kendrick, the batter, was out for Utley's action. However, if Utey were deemed in the basepath, then Kendrick would not be out automatically.
(b) (7.08) Retiring a Runner
(3) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a
fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball;
(13) A play on him is being made and a member of his team
(other than a runner) hinders a fielders attempt to field a
thrown ball. See Rule 5.09(b)(3) (Rule 7.11). For interference
by a runner, see Rule 5.09(b)(3) (Rule 7.08(b)).
(b)(3) does not apply because it was not a batted ball but a thrown ball, and Utley didn't interfere with the ball. (b)(13) does not apply because the out was being made on Utley and so it wasn't a member of Utley's team who interfered.
Next is
6.01 Interference, Obstruction, and Catcher Collisions
(a) (7.09) Batter or Runner Interference
It is interference by a batter or a runner when:
(5) Any batter or runner who has just been put out, or any
runner who has just scored, hinders or impedes any following
play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be
declared out for the interference of his teammate;
Rule 6.01(a )(5) Comment (Rule 7.09(e) Comment): If the batter
or a runner continues to advance after he has been put out,
he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
Rule 6.01
(6) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully
and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder
in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent
to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire
shall call the runner out for interference and also call out
the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate.
In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of
such action by a runner;
(7) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a batter-runner willfully
and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder
in the act of fielding a batted ball, with the obvious intent
to break up a double play, the ball is dead; the umpire
shall call the batter-runner out for interference and shall
call out the runner who had advanced closest to the home
plate regardless where the double play might have been
possible. In no event shall bases be run because of such
interference;
Again, the problem with the 6.01 rules is that this did not involve a batted ball, but rather a "thrown" ball.
Tejada was close enough to the bag that he could have touched it. However, in trying to make a spin move, I think the throw caused him to reach across his body and caused him to short-foot the bag. After watching the replay a number of times, I think Tejada came up short on the bag not to avoid Utley, but because of the spin move combined with reaching back for the ball.
As a result, I think it was fair to review the play and say that he missed the bag.
However, that doesn't mean that my interpretation is correct as people will see different things. Also, it is undeniable that middle infielders have been awarded the "neighborhood" play in many siutaitons where the fielder was not nearly as close to the bag as was Tejada.
Unfortunately, a gap in the rules exist such that because Tejada missed the bag and the ump called Utley out, that a reversal automatically puts Utley on the base as a right.
I hope MLB convenes this off-season and takes a safer approach to breaking up the double play and legislates it out of the game to protect middle infielders.
All of this contributes to the nonsense because the only reason for Utley to illegally injure Tejada was to break up a double play. When the umpires and Joe Torre say that there was no chance of a double play and therefore no neighborhood play, they don't explain why Utley did what he did. If there was no double play and Utley saw Tejada touch the base (whether he did or not doesn't matter for my point), he would have tailed off and not even gone to 2nd base. He would have been out and headed towards the dugout. The end. Hence nothing that Mr. Torre or the fucking morons in the ump outfits say goes together and makes sense. It's all garbage and damage control.
Now if anyone is listening to the asshole on WFAN who thinks he knows it all and says there was no chance of a double play, perhaps you can call in and explain to him that he has no fucking idea what he's talking about because he is not thinking clearly and doesn't understand all the issues and likely is drunk on fish and chips and diet coke.
it's a tie series with Matt Harvey on the mound.
there will be no retaliation, no apology from MLB (who gives a F? if they provide one) and who even cares if the call was right or wrong anyway at this point, this isn't a pine tar game and they'll replay the bottom of the inning and hopefully the Mets win the series.
I'm not thinking about this anymore.
Look at the Chris Coughlan slide that took out Jung Ho Kang for 6-8 months and then look at the Utley slide. Worlds different - Utley's is so far and away not a baseball play.
They should've beaned Gonzalez last night.
/\ /\ this
They are saying that reviewing was correct because it was a forceout play, not a neighborhood play, but they accept the slide as trying to break up a double play.
if you retaliate you do so against someone else like Gonzalez or Turner.
agree
if you retaliate you do so against someone else like Gonzalez or Turner.
This. When Utley comes up, just whizz one up at his head. He will duck like the turtle that he is.
Now they can't retaliate because baseball will warn both clubs.
Torre: It wasn't a neighborhood play. That's judged on the field. Once it goes to replay, that's not a neighborhood play.
Ok, so a non-reviewable play is no longer non-reviewable once they start reviewing it. Makes perfect sense.
Quote:
Q. And they could challenge because it wasn't a neighborhood play?
Torre: It wasn't a neighborhood play. That's judged on the field. Once it goes to replay, that's not a neighborhood play.
Ok, so a non-reviewable play is no longer non-reviewable once they start reviewing it. Makes perfect sense.
This is what I mean! This is why I can't just say oh well and move on. Yes the players should do that...but I'm a fan and what I saw was an umpire make a call and then decide that the play was reviewable but only if they decided to change the description of how they saw the play. And altered their view of the play in a way that allowed them to review it. If its a double play its a neighborhood play call, which is what anyone watching would have assumed since the SS made an attempt to get himself in position to make a throw to first, and the runner made every possible attempt to stop the throw to the point that he body checked a guy while he was prone and unable to protect himself. And that happened as the runner ignored the base. The argument that the SS didn't have a great chance of making the play is not relevant to the use of the neighborhood call because ws we all have seen and know quite well, SS's always eat it and decide to not make the throw, or the runner attempts a (legal) take out slide and a throw can't be made without risk of an error.
SO HOW THE FLUCK IS THIS DIFFERENT?
Just driving me insane how bad this all looked.
I've watched the play carefully several times. The shortstop was in back of second on the right field side. Utley veered to the right and threw himself at the fielder without making even a pretense of trying to touch the bag. He didn't hit the ground until he was already past the base. This wasn't "hard nosed baseball". This was a clear violation of the rules, at least as the rules have been applied in similar circumstances.
The umps blew the call. That is part of the game. I don't like it but at least but the Mets are leaving LA with a split. That isn't so bad.
They really have to have another ss on the roster.
What Utley did was not a "hard nosed" baseball play. His whole intent was to upend the fielder and that shouldn't be allowed. My explanation above should be a simple fix but baseball will no doubt discuss this for months and come up with some convoluted rule that makes no sense. Just require them to touch the bag or at least reach for the bag. Not barrel into a fielder AFTER the bag with no attempt to slide. If the runner reaches for the bag and can't reach or misses touching it, they should be out and interference should be called. It's a simple solution that will still allow runners to make hard slides. And maybe dissuade douchebag players like Utley from hurting people.
Seriously? Just put Flores on at SS. He's better than Tejada anyway. Reynolds can be a backup.
Quote:
Don't think there's any other choice really. Maybe EY Jr., but he is not a SS.
Seriously? Just put Flores on at SS. He's better than Tejada anyway. Reynolds can be a backup.
I thought that's what the poster meant. As a backup. Flores is the starter now at SS. I would have to believe.
That was not a slide and that is not how u 'go in hard'!
Right Steve. I agree with you. My point is that if the runner is attempting to reach/touch the bag, at least their entire focus isn't on taking out the fielder which will at least lessen the impact while remaining a baseball play. I've seen too many players not even attempt to touch the bag or be so far away that they cannot even reach the back (Werth is another one who does this...not shocking both were long time Phillies). Those are not baseball plays and should be penalized. It couldn't be easier to enforce. It makes too much sense. This doesn't need to be rocket science.
It's nice to see Yankee fans and Mets fans on the same page though. Except for Mike, of course. There's always one. Thanks guys!
It was Tejada again...in 2010. But he's done this time and time again to the Mets (and I'm sure other teams).
Quote:
In comment 12539940 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Don't think there's any other choice really. Maybe EY Jr., but he is not a SS.
Seriously? Just put Flores on at SS. He's better than Tejada anyway. Reynolds can be a backup.
I thought that's what the poster meant. As a backup. Flores is the starter now at SS. I would have to believe.
Got it. I misunderstood then. That makes sense.
Wasn't it Ruben that time also?
And no; he was nowhere near 2B.
2) If you get the chance, clatter Seager when he's trying to turn a double play
2) If you get the chance, clatter Seager when he's trying to turn a double play
3) If they have a game completely in hand let one of the guys in the pen throw at one of theirs
2. Utley tried to break up the DP as best as he knew how because like Pete Rose he plays the game all out and hard.
3. His slide was not good in that he was able to roll up on the ankle. Had he slid with feet first, it would have been low enough and clean to not cause injury. I guess he wanted it to be hard and high figuring this gave him a better chance to break it up.
4. I don't like seeing that kind of stuff either, especially with the SS behind the base, but apparently he did not break any rules, although it seemed unsportsmanlike to me.
5. I don't know this for sure, but being a SS, I'm thinking Utley is having a difficult time living with his actions today.
I do not believe the Mets should try to purposely injure a Dodger player not named Utley. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially if the player is not named Utley.
If that was a superstar shortstop we would have a Tulo Rule being enforced tomorrow
Probably in case Thor came down with an illness or injury and wasn't able to go. Then Harvey would have stepped in.
Have they? I'd like them to plunk one if given the chance but I would never want someone beaned in the head I doubt many fans would.
whether the umps/Torre think there was a chance of a double play is different from whether Utley thought there was a chance of a double play at the time.
I can only assume Torre made that claim based on Kendrick heading down to first, but Utley can't see that. He is just thinking "break up the double play"
(m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpires judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play:
Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpires judgment play.
It's not changing the rules...it's enforcing the rules. See the post/rule above you.
whether the umps/Torre think there was a chance of a double play is different from whether Utley thought there was a chance of a double play at the time.
I can only assume Torre made that claim based on Kendrick heading down to first, but Utley can't see that. He is just thinking "break up the double play"
Utley has played 2B in 1,479 games in the majors. He had the play right in front of him. He knew from the speed of the batted ball and from where it was fielded that there would be no double play.
Intentional or not, it was against the rules and the umps blew it.
He did slide. Tejada got over their late because he had a long way to go. So Utley slid late.
(m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpires judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play:
Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpires judgment play.
This rule refers to whether a batter (in this case Kendrick) would be out as as result of what the runner (in this case Utley) did. However, the rules clearly state that it is to penalize the runner for leaving the baseline. Utley didn't leave the base line (3 feet on either side of a direct line between the bag). Utley's left hand went right over the bag. He was right in the baseline, so this rule does not apply.
(m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpires judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play:
Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpires judgment play.
This rule refers to whether a batter (in this case Kendrick) would be out as as result of what the runner (in this case Utley) did. However, the rules clearly state that it is to penalize the runner for leaving the baseline. Utley didn't leave the base line (3 feet on either side of a direct line between the bag). Utley's left hand went right over the bag. He was right in the baseline, so this rule does not apply.
It is debatable if the baseline extends beyond 2B because that's where he made contact. And the rule does NOT "clearly state that it is to penalize the runner for leaving the baseline". That's a comment. The rule IS ...
A batter is out when -- A preceding runner shall, in the umpires judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play
Quote:
"What's been done for well over 100 years" is a hard take out slide to break up a double play. Fine. But you tell me where/when did Utley "slide"? There was no slide. He at the very end tried to bend to make it look like a slide but all he did was smash right into the leg, breaking it. Watch Utley when he stands up. Does he look at the ump for the call? No. Doesn't even bother to see if he was out or safe, just starts running back to the dugout. Should tell you all you need to know on what his intention was.
He did slide. Tejada got over their late because he had a long way to go. So Utley slid late.
He absolutely DID NOT slide...don't know why that's so hard to understand. Watch the video. A weak attempt to fall to the ground after you barrel into the fielder AFTER the bag is not a slide. Most players when they try to disrupt a fielder on a DP start sliding before the bag in the general direction of the fielder. Utley did anything but that. He did not slide.
Just watch
This is the second comment I have read like this. Have Mets fans here really called for anyone to be hit in the head? That could kill someone, I'm surprised that anyone would sincerely want anyone beaned. Plunk smother player sure happens all the time but not beaning a guy.
That said, Mets contributed to the loss as well:
1. Murphy doesn't turn the DP.
2. Clippard has a bad back. Reed had one good month. I like his arm but don't see him as reliable at this point.
3. Collins continues to exhibit ineptitude in managing the pen. Why did he pull Colon? Bartolo pitched brilliantly, getting Kendrick to hit a DP grounder. Then you pull him for a guy who was sent to the minors three months ago?
4. Inexperienced catcher with two rookie pitchers in the rotation. How do you throw a change-up to the number 8 hitter on a 3-2 count in the 7th inning? Ethier or Gonzalez? OK. But not Hernandez.
I think Mets have to come and play their game. Don't focus on retaliation. That's exactly what Utley and the Dodgers want you to do. They missed their opportunity in the 8th inning. Now they have to wait until next year. You can't change what happened. Just move on.
I'm still fuming today
Just watch
I have watched. He hit the ground before contact,
Quote:
When you attempt to "slide" and you barrel into the fielder before you even hit the ground to start your "slide"...it's not a slide, it's a tackle.
Just watch
I have watched. He hit the ground before contact,
He never slid. You keep ignoring that part. May as well legalize tackling.
Quote:
When you attempt to "slide" and you barrel into the fielder before you even hit the ground to start your "slide"...it's not a slide, it's a tackle.
Just watch
I have watched. He hit the ground before contact,
Ugh, no he didn't...but whatever.
Headhunter : 1:22 pm : link : reply
Jason Heyward eating a Zack Wheeler fastball I see
Wasn't Wheeler and I don't think anyone in a kid's game should purposely cause head trauma.
Quote:
Still bitter about
Headhunter : 1:22 pm : link : reply
Jason Heyward eating a Zack Wheeler fastball I see
Wasn't Wheeler and I don't think anyone in a kid's game should purposely cause head trauma.
But it's OK to throw a roll block into a defenseless player?
When Matt Cain hit Wright in the head, you could tell by his reaction he did not intend to do it. Same thing with Utley but in reverse.
Anywho, Utley is trash and his play was ridiculous. However throwing a 98mph baseball at someone's head should not be a proper retaliation is all.
That was intentional obviously.
The question is..
Was it a dirty play? That slide should have started well before the bag. I believe it was as dirty as Filthy's socks.
just for the record, Filthy, you are a good guy, surprisingly so for a Braves fan. So, please don't take any of this personally. Met fans are just upset about this BS, especially because it involves Utley and the Dodgers--two entities despised by all true supporters of the Mets.
I should account for emotional posting during the postseason though.
Fuck Utley though.
He did slide. Tejada got over their late because he had a long way to go. So Utley slid late.
He didn't go into second thinking I am going to break this kid's legs, but he went into second thinking I am going to do what I am going to do and fuck this guy I'm breaking up a double play.
I have some lovely scenic Zapruder film style screen caps. Wanna see???!? This will let everyone see just how impossible it was for the ump that is 3 feet away to say the slide was legal AND that Torre and his umps could lie about whether a double play was possible:
Some very nice views of how it was a) not a slide b) after the base and clearly illegal due to lack of intent to get to the base. I don't think it's intent to injure, but see...how would anyone know? If that is a legal slide, then can't you just mean to badly hurt someone and just lie because you are "trying to break up the play"? Seems like it would make perfect sense that the reason why that type of knee slide is not legal is because you can't prove he isn't trying to hurt the SS. Tejada isn't looking at the runner, Utley can not slide that way but sees him and does anyway. It's just unreal.
And some views of why a) the DP was clearly possible even if it was unlikely b) the ball is in Tejada's hand ready to be thrown as he spins before a dipshit drops his knees onto the guy's leg. Someone tell me with a straight face that there wouldn't have at least been a play at first if Utley didn't prevent the play (Which, if he slid to take out the fielder in a legal, normal way, would have actually been a good play).
Seems to me that the play was a very clear double play ball, the throw to 2nd by Murph was not ideal (not a super easy play going toward LF while Tejada went the other way) but it was there and Tejada was closer to the base than most neighborhood plays, spinning to make the throw. As we all know, if it was just considered a double play ball it would not have been reviewable. They somehow decided on the field that it was not a double play ball and therefore the neighborhood play was not relevant and therefore the play became a "force play".
Thanks for bearing with me as I obsess over this play and this game. And I'm not really sorry if you want me to give it up. I just am so amazed by what happened that I have to try to figure out just how absurd and wrong everything was. Never seen anything like it and know we never will again. I'd like to try and understand how anyone who watches baseball could look at the screens and tell me that any single decision or result made the slightest bit of sense. And for that to happen in a playoff game is
I know the sting of the loss lingers, but I think we've moved on from the loss and are all just flabbergasted at how MLB has handled this...from the inept umpires to running out Bumbling Joe Torre who knows nothing about the rules. MLB couldn't have handled this any worse.
Could you imagine his reaction as a manager to a play like that? He may pull out a 9mm and shoot Belle in the face right on the field. And no Tejada is not Jeter of course but that is completely irrelevant to the point.
Torre: I sure hope as hell that Chase Utley -- I mean, he's been a great player for a long time, and he's played hard. I certainly don't feel that he was trying to hurt somebody. I think his goal was breaking up a double play, and in doing that, someone broke their leg. He was, I agree, he was within range of the bag, yeah. It wasn't like the fielder was over here, and he went right at him and couldn't reach the bag. Yeah, that's where it becomes not cut and dry. So it's all this stuff that we're going to look at and digest
Q. Just to follow up on that, can the rule be made better than it is right now to protect infielders?
Torre: The interesting part is we have the neighborhood play that we have in effect in a lot of ways to protect the infielders, having to stay at the base. This wasn't a neighborhood play because spinning around and the reaching for the ball and stuff like that.
This wasn't a neighborhood play. We're certainly aware of the health of the players, so that's why the neighborhood play is part of what we decide on as far as replay or no replay.
Torre: Tejada showed that he didn't touch the bag, and Utley never touched second base. The fact that he was called out meant he didn't -- he's not required to touch second base once he's called out. So when the play was overturned, he gets awarded second base on that.
Q. If he went off the field because he was told he was out and then they tagged him because he had been told he was out?
Torre: No, I mean, if the player had had the ball and happened to tag him.
Q. Before he was told?
Torre: Well, he heard he was out, and he was leaving the field. But I'm saying before he left the field, right?
Marsh: Right, he was called out.
Torre: Because the act of tagging somebody, the fact that he didn't touch the bag and now you're tagging him, OK? But once he's off the field and we go to replay, everything stops, so he's awarded second base because he wasn't tagged. But he left the field based on the fact that the umpire called him out.
Q. So he never needed to touch the base?
Torre: He never needed to touch the base because the umpire called him out. You're correcting umpire's mistake. In that situation, by going to replay, and they see the runner never touched the base, but the umpire called him out, by replay rules we can correct the situation and put the runner on the bag.
I know Joe is a sharp fella and he was put in a spot where he had to actually do his job, and I don't mean hand out awards or go to galas....he had to know the rules. I assume he has to know the rules. I also understand that he has to defend his officials and has to answer on the spot. But what we have here is a guy who has to be the face of the league in this situation and nothing was correct from the Chris Guccione at 2nd base, to the other 5 (!!!!) umpires on the field, to NYC office, to Joe. Whole thing made A-Rod pressers look professional and honest
Very disappointed at the Mets not retaliating. I think that is one of the reasons the players were so livid. If Robles had plunked someone, it would not have made everything copacetic but would have stopped some of the anger from boiling over.
I mean why would the rule favor either players thinking one more than the other would have to follow through on a play that was ruled out by the ump. Why does the runner get the benefit of the doubt but the defense doesn't? Does anyone really believe that if there was no call made no Mets player try's to grab the ball and tag Utley while he is on the ground a little hurt and maybe dazed himself?
The biggest mistake was changing the call on the field from a neighborhood play (which I actually don't think they did). I think they mistakenly went to the review when they should have and now they need to stick to that story. That is the exact right circumstance to have a neighborhood play because while it wasn't a perfect throw it didn't pull him off the bag. He was simply trying to maneuver with a runner bearing down on him.
Bottomline is MLB HQ ruled that as long as you injure your opponent enough that he can't tag you, hold on to the ball, or hold on to the base you should go for it.
Steve, you are trying to find logic in something illogical. All any official has done is talk in circles. This was discussed when IR first came out. The offense is always going to get the benefit in these circumstances because of the way the rules are written. Even though the fielders decisions are also affected by the call on the field as well. Torre can look back at his lackey all he wants for clarification and say that Tejada or any fielder could have picked up the ball and tagged out Utley...but why would they if the ump already called him out? Makes no sense.
it sucks, but I have found moving on is healthier (for me) than dwelling on it.
I feel for you, obviously I can say this as someone who knows how you all feel, just let it go.
the silver lining is we have Matt Harvey on the mound, and then probably Steven Matz. Flores at SS.
it could have been worse. I guess.
this is completely correct. That "rule" makes literally NO sense and sounds like they made it up on the spot. Even if they didn't. Again the whole situation just reeks of incompetence and lies. Like they made up random things every step of the way to legitimize the multiple mistakes. Ho hum, not like it was an important moment in an important game. They'll get it more right next time.
it sucks, but I have found moving on is healthier (for me) than dwelling on it.
I feel for you, obviously I can say this as someone who knows how you all feel, just let it go.
the silver lining is we have Matt Harvey on the mound, and then probably Steven Matz. Flores at SS.
it could have been worse. I guess.
The thing is. It very well could have been a series altering mishap. If its interference we are out of the inning and likely win the game. We are up 2-0 going to NY with Harvey on the mound. In other words the series is over. Now even if Harvey wins, they have Kershaw and Greinke going again for them which will be brutal to beat. And if God forbid Harvey loses, its likely over for us. It was a HUGE pendulum swing especially considering we had the lead in the 7th and Syndergaard had outpitched Greinke.
big deal, Utley is a PHer.
I'm just saying I personally have to move on.
big deal, Utley is a PHer.
I'm just saying I personally have to move on.
You're right of course. Its just brutal. I think this will be talked about for some time. Lord help that this doesn't end up defining the series and we somehow pull this out.
I also think the anger and emotion could work against us. I hope Im wrong.
I know utley isnt a major part but the guy kills us and he doesnt deserve to play. Id hate for him to be able to play during a long appeal process.
I know utley isnt a major part but the guy kills us and he doesnt deserve to play. Id hate for him to be able to play during a long appeal process.
MLB is indicating they will hear and rule on the appeal before the game.