NFT: Mets-Dodgers, NLDS Game 2

But I think really good retribution is steamrolling them in game 3 and beating Kershaw (likely pitcher) in game 4. That would send them home losers, get their manager fired, and also grow the media narrative that Kershaw is a choke artist in the playoffs even more.

In comment 12539931 steve in ky said:

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If that had been a star like Troy Tulowitzki being carted off with a shattered leg after what was essentially a tackle do you think the review goes the same way?

Justin Upton ‏@JUST_JUP 12h12 hours ago
If that was a superstar shortstop we would have a Tulo Rule being enforced tomorrow

but I wouldn't want the Mets to slide into 2nd for retribution, because it would have obvious intent to hurt someone. It's more an Utley thing than a Dodger's thing, so I would only want them to beam him.

this is more of an indictment how little respect MLB has for a player of Rueben Tejada/s stature

If that's not a neighborhood play the definition needs to change. Was it a perfect throw? No, but it was easily handled and Tejada easily got to the vicinity of the bag. Also the questionable slide by Utley should be an automatic out at 2B. Last time I checked it's not a free for all on any base for the runner to take out the fielder by any means to try to disrupt the play. And if that wasn't enough he never touched the bag and the umpires discretion should have required a reason to award him the base, like maybe the player should have attempted to actually touch the bag. The entire call was pure insanity.

and I think we all know they are going to, but they have to play with a different attitude towards their players when it comes to hard slides and pitching high and tight etc. Every slide into second should at least gave spikes up. Two wrongs in this case make a right because the reason Utley does it and does it again is because his teammates don't have to deal with shit due to his actions. Maybe he's so bad ass that he can take fastballs to the ribs but who knows if Seager is?

In comment 12539946 Headhunter said:

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and he will rejoin the team tomorrow. I wonder why they did not leave Matt Harvey in NY instead of making him fly cross country twice for nothing

Probably in case Thor came down with an illness or injury and wasn't able to go. Then Harvey would have stepped in.

with fastballs up in here.

umps. If it was Jeter or Tulo, the Commissioner would have suspended Utley on the spot

they had Colon or Niese available to step in if that happened

In comment 12540057 GiantFilthy said:

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with fastballs up in here.

Have they? I'd like them to plunk one if given the chance but I would never want someone beaned in the head I doubt many fans would.

Jason Heyward eating a Zack Wheeler fastball I see

In comment 12539818 SethFromAstoria said:

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why would he go into a take out slide if there was no chance of a double play.?

whether the umps/Torre think there was a chance of a double play is different from whether Utley thought there was a chance of a double play at the time.

I can only assume Torre made that claim based on Kendrick heading down to first, but Utley can't see that. He is just thinking "break up the double play"

before the ball was hit.

A batter is out when --

(m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpire�s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play:
Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire�s judgment play.

Sought to take his man out to break up the DP. if they wanted to call interference, fine. If they want to changes the rules, fine. But Utley did what's been done for well over 100 years.

In comment 12540099 jeff57 said:

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Sought to take his man out to break up the DP. if they wanted to call interference, fine. If they want to changes the rules, fine. But Utley did what's been done for well over 100 years.

It's not changing the rules...it's enforcing the rules. See the post/rule above you.

"What's been done for well over 100 years" is a hard take out slide to break up a double play. Fine. But you tell me where/when did Utley "slide"? There was no slide. He at the very end tried to bend to make it look like a slide but all he did was smash right into the leg, breaking it. Watch Utley when he stands up. Does he look at the ump for the call? No. Doesn't even bother to see if he was out or safe, just starts running back to the dugout. Should tell you all you need to know on what his intention was.

In comment 12540081 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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In comment 12539818 SethFromAstoria said: Quote:why would he go into a take out slide if there was no chance of a double play.? whether the umps/Torre think there was a chance of a double play is different from whether Utley thought there was a chance of a double play at the time. I can only assume Torre made that claim based on Kendrick heading down to first, but Utley can't see that. He is just thinking "break up the double play"

Utley has played 2B in 1,479 games in the majors. He had the play right in front of him. He knew from the speed of the batted ball and from where it was fielded that there would be no double play.

Intentional or not, it was against the rules and the umps blew it.

In comment 12540109 moespree said:

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"What's been done for well over 100 years" is a hard take out slide to break up a double play. Fine. But you tell me where/when did Utley "slide"? There was no slide. He at the very end tried to bend to make it look like a slide but all he did was smash right into the leg, breaking it. Watch Utley when he stands up. Does he look at the ump for the call? No. Doesn't even bother to see if he was out or safe, just starts running back to the dugout. Should tell you all you need to know on what his intention was.

He did slide. Tejada got over their late because he had a long way to go. So Utley slid late.

In comment 12540085 sphinx said:

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A batter is out when -- (m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpire�s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play: Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire�s judgment play.

This rule refers to whether a batter (in this case Kendrick) would be out as as result of what the runner (in this case Utley) did. However, the rules clearly state that it is to penalize the runner for leaving the baseline. Utley didn't leave the base line (3 feet on either side of a direct line between the bag). Utley's left hand went right over the bag. He was right in the baseline, so this rule does not apply.

it doesn't matter how long Utley has played. I doubt highly that any player in that situation has a mental clock going as to how long the play was taking and whether there could be a double play. At the crack of the bat, he was off to second base, running as hard as he could to get to the base or to prevent the defense from turning 2.

I find it appalling that some posters on here (and commenters elsewhere) can cry foul, calling the play bush league, dirty, and unsportsmanlike, and then in the same comment, call for the Mets to drill Utley or another Dodger player in the head or anywhere else.

In comment 12540127 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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In comment 12540085 sphinx said:Quote:A batter is out when -- (m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpire�s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play: Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire�s judgment play. This rule refers to whether a batter (in this case Kendrick) would be out as as result of what the runner (in this case Utley) did. However, the rules clearly state that it is to penalize the runner for leaving the baseline. Utley didn't leave the base line (3 feet on either side of a direct line between the bag). Utley's left hand went right over the bag. He was right in the baseline, so this rule does not apply.

It is debatable if the baseline extends beyond 2B because that's where he made contact. And the rule does NOT "clearly state that it is to penalize the runner for leaving the baseline". That's a comment. The rule IS ...

A batter is out when -- A preceding runner shall, in the umpire�s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play

In comment 12540116 jeff57 said:

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In comment 12540109 moespree said: Quote: "What's been done for well over 100 years" is a hard take out slide to break up a double play. Fine. But you tell me where/when did Utley "slide"? There was no slide. He at the very end tried to bend to make it look like a slide but all he did was smash right into the leg, breaking it. Watch Utley when he stands up. Does he look at the ump for the call? No. Doesn't even bother to see if he was out or safe, just starts running back to the dugout. Should tell you all you need to know on what his intention was. He did slide. Tejada got over their late because he had a long way to go. So Utley slid late.

He absolutely DID NOT slide...don't know why that's so hard to understand. Watch the video. A weak attempt to fall to the ground after you barrel into the fielder AFTER the bag is not a slide. Most players when they try to disrupt a fielder on a DP start sliding before the bag in the general direction of the fielder. Utley did anything but that. He did not slide.

Not after barreling into him.

know what to tell you. Utley threw himself into Tejada. No part of what he did could be construed as a slide whatsoever. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one big time.

He was into his slide before contact.

When you attempt to "slide" and you barrel into the fielder before you even hit the ground to start your "slide"...it's not a slide, it's a tackle.

Just watch

In comment 12540135 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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I find it appalling that some posters on here (and commenters elsewhere) can cry foul, calling the play bush league, dirty, and unsportsmanlike, and then in the same comment, call for the Mets to drill Utley or another Dodger player in the head or anywhere else.

This is the second comment I have read like this. Have Mets fans here really called for anyone to be hit in the head? That could kill someone, I'm surprised that anyone would sincerely want anyone beaned. Plunk smother player sure happens all the time but not beaning a guy.

moment about Utley getting beamed in the head. Obviously I don't want anyone getting a 95 mph heater to the head and it was in poor taste. That being said, Utley deserves the same fate as Tejada. MLB is also not absolved. They have allowed dirty players like him to do this his entire career. This falls on them.

I'm not a guy who generally blames the umps for losses even when they make shit calls because generally you have an opportunity to overcome them. In this case, however, it gave the Dodgers an extra out and a runner in scoring position. It's hard not to see that as crucial.

That said, Mets contributed to the loss as well:

1. Murphy doesn't turn the DP.

2. Clippard has a bad back. Reed had one good month. I like his arm but don't see him as reliable at this point.

3. Collins continues to exhibit ineptitude in managing the pen. Why did he pull Colon? Bartolo pitched brilliantly, getting Kendrick to hit a DP grounder. Then you pull him for a guy who was sent to the minors three months ago?

4. Inexperienced catcher with two rookie pitchers in the rotation. How do you throw a change-up to the number 8 hitter on a 3-2 count in the 7th inning? Ethier or Gonzalez? OK. But not Hernandez.


I think Mets have to come and play their game. Don't focus on retaliation. That's exactly what Utley and the Dodgers want you to do. They missed their opportunity in the 8th inning. Now they have to wait until next year. You can't change what happened. Just move on.

to get over this fucking game..

I'm still fuming today

In comment 12540212 PhiPsi125 said:

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When you attempt to "slide" and you barrel into the fielder before you even hit the ground to start your "slide"...it's not a slide, it's a tackle. Just watch

I have watched. He hit the ground before contact,

In comment 12540242 jeff57 said:

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In comment 12540212 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: When you attempt to "slide" and you barrel into the fielder before you even hit the ground to start your "slide"...it's not a slide, it's a tackle. Just watch I have watched. He hit the ground before contact,

He never slid. You keep ignoring that part. May as well legalize tackling.

In comment 12540242 jeff57 said:

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In comment 12540212 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: When you attempt to "slide" and you barrel into the fielder before you even hit the ground to start your "slide"...it's not a slide, it's a tackle. Just watch I have watched. He hit the ground before contact,

Ugh, no he didn't...but whatever.

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Still bitter about Headhunter : 1:22 pm : link : reply Jason Heyward eating a Zack Wheeler fastball I see

Wasn't Wheeler and I don't think anyone in a kid's game should purposely cause head trauma.

In comment 12540290 GiantFilthy said:

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Quote: Still bitter about Headhunter : 1:22 pm : link : reply Jason Heyward eating a Zack Wheeler fastball I see Wasn't Wheeler and I don't think anyone in a kid's game should purposely cause head trauma.

But it's OK to throw a roll block into a defenseless player?

Just got up and left.

When Matt Cain hit Wright in the head, you could tell by his reaction he did not intend to do it. Same thing with Utley but in reverse.

that OBJ got upset about?

thought you were the guy on the other thread. Disregard.

Anywho, Utley is trash and his play was ridiculous. However throwing a 98mph baseball at someone's head should not be a proper retaliation is all.

That was intentional obviously.

The question is..

Was it a dirty play? That slide should have started well before the bag. I believe it was as dirty as Filthy's socks.

In comment 12540301 GiantFilthy said:

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that OBJ got upset about?

just for the record, Filthy, you are a good guy, surprisingly so for a Braves fan. So, please don't take any of this personally. Met fans are just upset about this BS, especially because it involves Utley and the Dodgers--two entities despised by all true supporters of the Mets.

Notice that I'm not here trying to rub in the loss (I'll wait until after the series!). I've just always been one that hate the whole unwritten rule when it comes to any player getting hit in baseball, but especially when people don't consider the consequences of a baseball to the head.

I should account for emotional posting during the postseason though.

Fuck Utley though.

truly a nice guy, but don't come into a Met thread to preach, not the time for that Filthy

In comment 12540116 jeff57 said:

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He did slide. Tejada got over their late because he had a long way to go. So Utley slid late.

He didn't go into second thinking I am going to break this kid's legs, but he went into second thinking I am going to do what I am going to do and fuck this guy I'm breaking up a double play.

I have some lovely scenic Zapruder film style screen caps. Wanna see???!? This will let everyone see just how impossible it was for the ump that is 3 feet away to say the slide was legal AND that Torre and his umps could lie about whether a double play was possible:



Some very nice views of how it was a) not a slide b) after the base and clearly illegal due to lack of intent to get to the base. I don't think it's intent to injure, but see...how would anyone know? If that is a legal slide, then can't you just mean to badly hurt someone and just lie because you are "trying to break up the play"? Seems like it would make perfect sense that the reason why that type of knee slide is not legal is because you can't prove he isn't trying to hurt the SS. Tejada isn't looking at the runner, Utley can not slide that way but sees him and does anyway. It's just unreal.







And some views of why a) the DP was clearly possible even if it was unlikely b) the ball is in Tejada's hand ready to be thrown as he spins before a dipshit drops his knees onto the guy's leg. Someone tell me with a straight face that there wouldn't have at least been a play at first if Utley didn't prevent the play (Which, if he slid to take out the fielder in a legal, normal way, would have actually been a good play).







Seems to me that the play was a very clear double play ball, the throw to 2nd by Murph was not ideal (not a super easy play going toward LF while Tejada went the other way) but it was there and Tejada was closer to the base than most neighborhood plays, spinning to make the throw. As we all know, if it was just considered a double play ball it would not have been reviewable. They somehow decided on the field that it was not a double play ball and therefore the neighborhood play was not relevant and therefore the play became a "force play".

Thanks for bearing with me as I obsess over this play and this game. And I'm not really sorry if you want me to give it up. I just am so amazed by what happened that I have to try to figure out just how absurd and wrong everything was. Never seen anything like it and know we never will again. I'd like to try and understand how anyone who watches baseball could look at the screens and tell me that any single decision or result made the slightest bit of sense. And for that to happen in a playoff game is

snapshots. It's also hard for someone to say that Utley started his slide before he made contact...that's just garbage.

I know the sting of the loss lingers, but I think we've moved on from the loss and are all just flabbergasted at how MLB has handled this...from the inept umpires to running out Bumbling Joe Torre who knows nothing about the rules. MLB couldn't have handled this any worse.

as manager of the Yanks...Albert Belle or someone like that does exactly the same thing into Jeter's leg...

Could you imagine his reaction as a manager to a play like that? He may pull out a 9mm and shoot Belle in the face right on the field. And no Tejada is not Jeter of course but that is completely irrelevant to the point.

embarrassing interview confirmed that for me.