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Landon Collins PI call

Tuckrule : 10/12/2015 8:13 am
I thought it was a terrible call. He was playing the ball completely. Reminded me of the Malcolm butler Super Bowl Int. what do you guys think?
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I have read  
pjcas18 : 10/12/2015 9:05 am : link
there is talk of making PI a challengeable play.

I'm not in favor of slowing the game down or increasing any administrative/review stuff, but PI is such a game changer I think it might be worth doing.

and that's irrelevant to whether or not Collins deserved a penalty or not.

Collinsworth thought there was a good case for no, and he's usually pro- wide receiver and QB, not defender.
Pereira said no foul on twitter  
Eric on Li : 10/12/2015 9:08 am : link
and on the second view it did just look like Collins was making a play on the ball, which he got his hands on. On first view I did think it was PI though.
if a DB hit our WR early ...  
Csonka : 10/12/2015 9:08 am : link
while arguably going for the ball, we'd be furious. The call was fine.
RE: RE: .....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/12/2015 9:09 am : link
In comment 12543826 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12543819 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I thought it was a penalty.



Same here, and Papa and bBanks agreed. I'll say it could have gone the other way but it's a judgement call that likely usually goes with the WR.


Yeah, I could have seen them letting it go, but I felt like it definitely tilted toward a penalty (especially on first blush). I'd have been annoyed if we didn't get that call if it happened to us.
Bogus call...  
Shockwave : 10/12/2015 9:11 am : link
And one good thing is that you have not heard Landon Collins name called out much this year, he is obviously doing something right.
RE: if a DB hit our WR early ...  
wigs in nyc : 10/12/2015 9:13 am : link
In comment 12543835 Csonka said:
Quote:
while arguably going for the ball, we'd be furious. The call was fine.


What I came to say.
DRC..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/12/2015 9:15 am : link
clearly held.

I was more pissed that Collinsworth said that call is going to be made every time. He should know better. He announced the opener when Fells was clearly held and it wasn't called.
RE: I have read  
giants#1 : 10/12/2015 9:16 am : link
In comment 12543828 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
there is talk of making PI a challengeable play.

I'm not in favor of slowing the game down or increasing any administrative/review stuff, but PI is such a game changer I think it might be worth doing.

and that's irrelevant to whether or not Collins deserved a penalty or not.

Collinsworth thought there was a good case for no, and he's usually pro- wide receiver and QB, not defender.


Fox pregame actually reported the opposite. They said there is increased discussion about making some penalties reviewable, like Wagner batting the ball out of the EZ, but "judgment" calls like holding and PI were likely to be excluded.

Holding I can understand, but PI needs to be reviewable. Too many horrific calls (DRC against Dallas) that have a significant impact on the game.
It looked to me  
Fred in Atlanta : 10/12/2015 9:17 am : link
that Collins was trying to intercept the ball and ran to the spot where the ball was and the receiver ran into him.
Bad call  
Steve Filipowicz : 10/12/2015 9:17 am : link
Collins' head was turned towards ball, arms were up so he didn't have them on receiver and didn't touch receiver and shoulder-to-shoulder hit. He was playing the ball and not the receiver
Honestly  
NYerInMA : 10/12/2015 9:25 am : link
to me it looked like the ball was way over both players' heads and was past the receiver by the time Collins hit him, so I would've ruled it un-catchable and no penalty.
well....  
BillKo : 10/12/2015 9:28 am : link
after seeing it on replay (I was at the game in an endzone seat), I thought it was definitely PI. Sure, you are entitlted to the ball as a defender, but you can knock the the guy off his mark.

Let me ask everyone this, if OBJ gets hit like that, what say you?

I think it's PI.
RE: Honestly  
giants#1 : 10/12/2015 9:30 am : link
In comment 12543889 NYerInMA said:
Quote:
to me it looked like the ball was way over both players' heads and was past the receiver by the time Collins hit him, so I would've ruled it un-catchable and no penalty.


You should look again. The ball hit Collins in the hand.
I thought it was BS too, but welcome to the new NFL  
mfsd : 10/12/2015 9:32 am : link
Since the refs didn't miss OBJ getting mugged on his way to the end zone on the final drive, i'm fine overall with how the game was called
From my quick view of the play and replays during the game  
SwirlingEddie : 10/12/2015 9:33 am : link
it appeared from one camera angle to be PI and from another to be a fair attempt at the ball. I could see how an official could honestly call this either way depending on where he stood.
ton of missed  
bc4life : 10/12/2015 9:35 am : link
holding calls by 49er OLine. Lot of them against Wynn
I think the bigger issue ...  
Beer Man : 10/12/2015 9:36 am : link
is that we are seeing too many games decided due to a bad call by the Zebras. Fortunately this game wasn't decided by that call, but at the time it looked like it might.
I cringe every  
area junc : 10/12/2015 9:39 am : link
time Walt Coleman opens his mouth. Shady

Landon is showing hands of stone tho, i have him scored w 4 dropped INTs (with 0 conversions). He shouldve iced the game late by picking Kap in the endzone. He looks great as a banger but showing people projecting him to SS were right.
That play will get called 100%  
arniefez : 10/12/2015 9:48 am : link
of the time. The ref is behind the play and only sees the contact.
SF OL was holding all night in plain sight  
JonC : 10/12/2015 9:49 am : link
on passing downs especially.

Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
RE: SF OL was holding all night in plain sight  
BillKo : 10/12/2015 9:52 am : link
In comment 12544004 JonC said:
Quote:
on passing downs especially.

Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.


Which is amazing because Coleman's crew, I believe, throws the most flags week in, week out.
RE: I cringe every  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/12/2015 9:53 am : link
In comment 12543964 area junc said:
Quote:
time Walt Coleman opens his mouth. Shady

Landon is showing hands of stone tho, i have him scored w 4 dropped INTs (with 0 conversions). He shouldve iced the game late by picking Kap in the endzone. He looks great as a banger but showing people projecting him to SS were right.


Wouldn't shock me if he gets super anxious with these INT opportunities. He's pressing to get one. Once he slows down they'll be converted.

But he was always going to be a SS. The question with him was could he cover enough to be a complete SS.
RE: SF OL was holding all night in plain sight  
giants#1 : 10/12/2015 9:55 am : link
In comment 12544004 JonC said:
Quote:
on passing downs especially.

Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.


Collinsworth was talking all game about how a jersey tug always draws a flag. Yet, (IIRC) 1-2 plays before the PI there was the most blatant jersey "tug" I've ever seen by their RT after Wynn blew past him. He was literally just hanging onto Wynn from behind for a solid second and no flag.
DRC's play was clearly holding  
JOrthman : 10/12/2015 9:56 am : link
I think the Collins call was a bad call, which was confirmed by Pierra.
the refs are getting worse and worse  
Vanzetti : 10/12/2015 11:02 am : link
how did they rule that ball an interception on Eli's last drive? It so clearly hit the ground. Thank God for replay or Giants would have been screwed out of a victory by a call a blind man could have made

whatever ref made that call should be demoted because even though it got overturned, it revealed pure incompetence
Awful call.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/12/2015 11:04 am : link
Even Michaels and Collinsworth thought so.
RE: RE: SF OL was holding all night in plain sight  
JonC : 10/12/2015 11:05 am : link
In comment 12544024 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 12544004 JonC said:


Quote:


on passing downs especially.

Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.



Collinsworth was talking all game about how a jersey tug always draws a flag. Yet, (IIRC) 1-2 plays before the PI there was the most blatant jersey "tug" I've ever seen by their RT after Wynn blew past him. He was literally just hanging onto Wynn from behind for a solid second and no flag.


Late in the game, SF was tugging jerseys play after play in plain sight because nothing was being called.
On Hyde's final TD run..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/12/2015 11:08 am : link
Hankins was literally thrown to the ground. Bromley was getting tackled most of the night. The interior OL could do whatever the heck they wanted.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 10/12/2015 11:44 am : link
1) That was a pure judgement call. Even if replay was allowed, some people would view it as a fraction early, some would say it is clean. He was clearly going for the ball, but it is a question of whether he went through the WR a fraction of a second early or not.

2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.

3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.
I thought  
NJGiantFan84 : 10/12/2015 12:07 pm : link
The refs were pretty good last night. There were a few missed calls and poor calls but they let them play. I think they should have called a holding or two on SF but they only called the blatant ones on us.

could richburg have been called for an ineligible receiver downfield on the big 3rd and 10 screen pass? he left a little earlier than the pass was caught and started blocking his man 5 yards from the LOS but did not make contact until after the pass was caught.

Also, I think they got it right but the refs could have called grounding on the 2nd and 10 play from the 49 right after the int was Overturned

RE: A few thoughts  
giants#1 : 10/12/2015 12:10 pm : link
In comment 12544444 Matt M. said:
Quote:
1) That was a pure judgement call. Even if replay was allowed, some people would view it as a fraction early, some would say it is clean. He was clearly going for the ball, but it is a question of whether he went through the WR a fraction of a second early or not.

2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.

3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.


Yes, I think they got away with a couple delays.
It's a tough call  
cnewk : 10/12/2015 12:11 pm : link
On the replay from behind it looked less like Collins was playing the ball and more like PI. But, from the replay showing the play from the front it does look like Collins is going more for the ball.

I think throwing the flag there was understandable from the angle the ref had. Ideally, though, I think what happens there is the refs get together and someone see the play from the other angle says he was playing to ball. And, they pick up the flag. It was a close call and not an obviously blown call like the DRC play against the Cowboys.
If he'd intercepted, there'd have been no PI call.  
Fpbflppt : 10/12/2015 12:21 pm : link
The fact that he interfered with the other guy's chance to catch it drew the call.
RE: I thought  
cnewk : 10/12/2015 12:26 pm : link
In comment 12544545 NJGiantFan84 said:
Quote:

could richburg have been called for an ineligible receiver downfield on the big 3rd and 10 screen pass? he left a little earlier than the pass was caught and started blocking his man 5 yards from the LOS but did not make contact until after the pass was caught.



Richburg was 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage when the ball was released, so it wasn't very close to ineligible receiver downfield (they let you get 1 yard past the line).
How?  
Doomster : 10/12/2015 3:14 pm : link
Turned to get it. Did disrupt the WR for sure. The thing of it is when you call that penalty basically spot them the game. That becomes the Giants ball if that penalty doesn't get called


If the penalty isn't called, it's 3rd and 5 for SF.....Still think we stop them?
RE: RE: A few thoughts  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/12/2015 3:45 pm : link
In comment 12544553 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 12544444 Matt M. said:


Quote:


1) That was a pure judgement call. Even if replay was allowed, some people would view it as a fraction early, some would say it is clean. He was clearly going for the ball, but it is a question of whether he went through the WR a fraction of a second early or not.

2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.

3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.



Yes, I think they got away with a couple delays.


Agreed, I was shocked they didn't get called. I feel like Eli would absolutely be called for those.
RE: RE: RE: A few thoughts  
giants#1 : 10/12/2015 3:48 pm : link
In comment 12545195 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
In comment 12544553 giants#1 said:
Agreed, I was shocked they didn't get called. I feel like Eli would absolutely be called for those.


Maybe I'm just a homer, but I feel like Eli gets no leeway on delays. Yet almost every other QB gets at least a full second. I swear Romo had 2-3 delays week 1 where he snapped in 2 seconds after it hit 0 and no flag.
I haven't watched the replay but the DRC call  
Jimmy Googs : 10/12/2015 4:02 pm : link
seemed legit at the time.

The Collins PI call was more suspect but not a flat-out wrong call.

BTW - DRC is not getting the benefit of the doubt on plays thus far so he probably needs to watch it a bit...
I was at the game  
geemanfan : 10/12/2015 5:12 pm : link
So my view was not great but Bob Papa said on the radio that they got the call right.
For all those who continue to say that he got there early  
Milton : 10/12/2015 5:20 pm : link
It doesn't matter that he was early as long as he was going for the ball and from the replay that they showed, it seemed pretty clear to my eyes that he was going for the ball. So no PI. And if the WR was OBJ, I would say the same thing.

It feels to me like the people who think it was a PI don't know the rules. Either that or they never saw the replay from the clearest angle.
He did go for the ball  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/12/2015 5:32 pm : link
but it sure looked like he muscled into the WR while doing so. I feel like if he just went straight up for it he wouldn't have gotten flagged.
Milton  
Mighty : 10/12/2015 5:36 pm : link
thats correct. One of the ex referees said that the rule is that as long as the DB is going for the ball then he has just as much right to it even if it means going thru the WR. If that really is the rule then that cant be PI.
RE: DRC  
mrvax : 10/12/2015 5:38 pm : link
In comment 12543705 Arcanum said:
Quote:
Holding was just a bad. Smith clearly was boxing DRC out


I dunno. I did't disagree with that call.

The call on Collins pretty much says the DB doesn't have the right to go for the ball after all if he in any way impedes the receiver.
I don't understand  
bubba0825 : 10/12/2015 5:43 pm : link
Why the db was allowed to disrupt ODB in the end zone when Eli threw the pick but when Landon Collins goes for the ball it's a flag
Because the ref thought that Eli was throwing  
Jimmy Googs : 10/12/2015 5:53 pm : link
the ball to the San Fran DB.
TTH  
JonC : 10/12/2015 6:09 pm : link
Yes indeed, and it took away any benefit of the doubt LC might have gotten otherwise.
you guys see a big  
bc4life : 10/12/2015 6:12 pm : link
difference between last night's play and the Butler's int to win the SB?
Collins got there first - period.  
section125 : 10/12/2015 6:22 pm : link
The receiver ran into him. The ball hit Collins hands, not the receiver. That was more offensive PI than defensive.

I like the idea  
giantgiantfan : 10/12/2015 6:36 pm : link
of having an official on site and in the box and he can stop play at anytime after a call to reverse it.
RE: SF OL was holding all night in plain sight  
BigBlueShock : 10/12/2015 8:42 pm : link
In comment 12544004 JonC said:
Quote:
on passing downs especially.

Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.

I don't mind not throwing flags for most of the holding. OL is a tough job and I'd prefer not to stop the game after every play for a penalty. The problem is, and it's been this way for years, is they allow it all game, then suddenly ALWAYS call it on the Giants after a big play. It happens a couple of times a week, I swear. I remember us screaming about Strahan and Tuck getting held on every play, and they rarely got the call. But come the 4th quarter, as soon as the Giants ran for a nice 30 yard gain...."holding, number 77 offense"
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