Turned to get it. Did disrupt the WR for sure. The thing of it is when you call that penalty basically spot them the game. That becomes the Giants ball if that penalty doesn't get called
RE: Agree but those are close bang bang judgment calls that go either way
The holding wasn't bad, but the PI was awful whether it was a bang bang play or not. Collins was clearly making a play on the ball so whether he contacted the WR or not is irrelevant.
The holding wasn't bad, but the PI was awful whether it was a bang bang play or not. Collins was clearly making a play on the ball so whether he contacted the WR or not is irrelevant.
I don't know. I tend to think if that exact same play happened in reverse and Odell was the WR you would have a lot of posters here yelling about how the refs didn't call PI.
He was going for the ball if he arrived at the time the ball was coming it's a clean call. I thought he was a 1/4 of a second early.
Hey we won. Who cares?
Because next time we might not.
Does it matter when he got there? I didn't think that had anything to do with it. He was clearly playing the ball. He was trying to high point the ball. He did what the NFL is asking defenses to do and that's play the ball. Would they prefer he tried to knock it out with a big hit because he was in great position to do that as well? That 1 call would have given the Giants the ball back and very well could have cost the game. I believe the ball call on DRC during the Cowboys game is a better example. Bad call that gave the opponent points and changed the course of the game.
I would say the course of the game had already changed.
I'm not in favor of slowing the game down or increasing any administrative/review stuff, but PI is such a game changer I think it might be worth doing.
and that's irrelevant to whether or not Collins deserved a penalty or not.
Collinsworth thought there was a good case for no, and he's usually pro- wide receiver and QB, not defender.
and on the second view it did just look like Collins was making a play on the ball, which he got his hands on. On first view I did think it was PI though.
Same here, and Papa and bBanks agreed. I'll say it could have gone the other way but it's a judgement call that likely usually goes with the WR.
Yeah, I could have seen them letting it go, but I felt like it definitely tilted toward a penalty (especially on first blush). I'd have been annoyed if we didn't get that call if it happened to us.
I was more pissed that Collinsworth said that call is going to be made every time. He should know better. He announced the opener when Fells was clearly held and it wasn't called.
I'm not in favor of slowing the game down or increasing any administrative/review stuff, but PI is such a game changer I think it might be worth doing.
and that's irrelevant to whether or not Collins deserved a penalty or not.
Collinsworth thought there was a good case for no, and he's usually pro- wide receiver and QB, not defender.
Fox pregame actually reported the opposite. They said there is increased discussion about making some penalties reviewable, like Wagner batting the ball out of the EZ, but "judgment" calls like holding and PI were likely to be excluded.
Holding I can understand, but PI needs to be reviewable. Too many horrific calls (DRC against Dallas) that have a significant impact on the game.
Collins' head was turned towards ball, arms were up so he didn't have them on receiver and didn't touch receiver and shoulder-to-shoulder hit. He was playing the ball and not the receiver
to me it looked like the ball was way over both players' heads and was past the receiver by the time Collins hit him, so I would've ruled it un-catchable and no penalty.
after seeing it on replay (I was at the game in an endzone seat), I thought it was definitely PI. Sure, you are entitlted to the ball as a defender, but you can knock the the guy off his mark.
Let me ask everyone this, if OBJ gets hit like that, what say you?
to me it looked like the ball was way over both players' heads and was past the receiver by the time Collins hit him, so I would've ruled it un-catchable and no penalty.
You should look again. The ball hit Collins in the hand.
I thought it was BS too, but welcome to the new NFL
it appeared from one camera angle to be PI and from another to be a fair attempt at the ball. I could see how an official could honestly call this either way depending on where he stood.
is that we are seeing too many games decided due to a bad call by the Zebras. Fortunately this game wasn't decided by that call, but at the time it looked like it might.
Landon is showing hands of stone tho, i have him scored w 4 dropped INTs (with 0 conversions). He shouldve iced the game late by picking Kap in the endzone. He looks great as a banger but showing people projecting him to SS were right.
Landon is showing hands of stone tho, i have him scored w 4 dropped INTs (with 0 conversions). He shouldve iced the game late by picking Kap in the endzone. He looks great as a banger but showing people projecting him to SS were right.
Wouldn't shock me if he gets super anxious with these INT opportunities. He's pressing to get one. Once he slows down they'll be converted.
But he was always going to be a SS. The question with him was could he cover enough to be a complete SS.
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
Collinsworth was talking all game about how a jersey tug always draws a flag. Yet, (IIRC) 1-2 plays before the PI there was the most blatant jersey "tug" I've ever seen by their RT after Wynn blew past him. He was literally just hanging onto Wynn from behind for a solid second and no flag.
how did they rule that ball an interception on Eli's last drive? It so clearly hit the ground. Thank God for replay or Giants would have been screwed out of a victory by a call a blind man could have made
whatever ref made that call should be demoted because even though it got overturned, it revealed pure incompetence
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
Collinsworth was talking all game about how a jersey tug always draws a flag. Yet, (IIRC) 1-2 plays before the PI there was the most blatant jersey "tug" I've ever seen by their RT after Wynn blew past him. He was literally just hanging onto Wynn from behind for a solid second and no flag.
Late in the game, SF was tugging jerseys play after play in plain sight because nothing was being called.
1) That was a pure judgement call. Even if replay was allowed, some people would view it as a fraction early, some would say it is clean. He was clearly going for the ball, but it is a question of whether he went through the WR a fraction of a second early or not.
2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.
3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.
The refs were pretty good last night. There were a few missed calls and poor calls but they let them play. I think they should have called a holding or two on SF but they only called the blatant ones on us.
could richburg have been called for an ineligible receiver downfield on the big 3rd and 10 screen pass? he left a little earlier than the pass was caught and started blocking his man 5 yards from the LOS but did not make contact until after the pass was caught.
Also, I think they got it right but the refs could have called grounding on the 2nd and 10 play from the 49 right after the int was Overturned
1) That was a pure judgement call. Even if replay was allowed, some people would view it as a fraction early, some would say it is clean. He was clearly going for the ball, but it is a question of whether he went through the WR a fraction of a second early or not.
2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.
3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.
On the replay from behind it looked less like Collins was playing the ball and more like PI. But, from the replay showing the play from the front it does look like Collins is going more for the ball.
I think throwing the flag there was understandable from the angle the ref had. Ideally, though, I think what happens there is the refs get together and someone see the play from the other angle says he was playing to ball. And, they pick up the flag. It was a close call and not an obviously blown call like the DRC play against the Cowboys.
If he'd intercepted, there'd have been no PI call.
could richburg have been called for an ineligible receiver downfield on the big 3rd and 10 screen pass? he left a little earlier than the pass was caught and started blocking his man 5 yards from the LOS but did not make contact until after the pass was caught.
Richburg was 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage when the ball was released, so it wasn't very close to ineligible receiver downfield (they let you get 1 yard past the line).
Turned to get it. Did disrupt the WR for sure. The thing of it is when you call that penalty basically spot them the game. That becomes the Giants ball if that penalty doesn't get called
If the penalty isn't called, it's 3rd and 5 for SF.....Still think we stop them?
1) That was a pure judgement call. Even if replay was allowed, some people would view it as a fraction early, some would say it is clean. He was clearly going for the ball, but it is a question of whether he went through the WR a fraction of a second early or not.
2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.
3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.
Yes, I think they got away with a couple delays.
Agreed, I was shocked they didn't get called. I feel like Eli would absolutely be called for those.
In comment 12544553 giants#1 said:
Agreed, I was shocked they didn't get called. I feel like Eli would absolutely be called for those.
Maybe I'm just a homer, but I feel like Eli gets no leeway on delays. Yet almost every other QB gets at least a full second. I swear Romo had 2-3 delays week 1 where he snapped in 2 seconds after it hit 0 and no flag.
It doesn't matter that he was early as long as he was going for the ball and from the replay that they showed, it seemed pretty clear to my eyes that he was going for the ball. So no PI. And if the WR was OBJ, I would say the same thing.
It feels to me like the people who think it was a PI don't know the rules. Either that or they never saw the replay from the clearest angle.
thats correct. One of the ex referees said that the rule is that as long as the DB is going for the ball then he has just as much right to it even if it means going thru the WR. If that really is the rule then that cant be PI.
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
I don't mind not throwing flags for most of the holding. OL is a tough job and I'd prefer not to stop the game after every play for a penalty. The problem is, and it's been this way for years, is they allow it all game, then suddenly ALWAYS call it on the Giants after a big play. It happens a couple of times a week, I swear. I remember us screaming about Strahan and Tuck getting held on every play, and they rarely got the call. But come the 4th quarter, as soon as the Giants ran for a nice 30 yard gain...."holding, number 77 offense"
Hey we won. Who cares?
I don't even care the way it may have looked to the refs, they get no sympathy.
Hey we won. Who cares?
Because next time we might not.
The holding wasn't bad, but the PI was awful whether it was a bang bang play or not. Collins was clearly making a play on the ball so whether he contacted the WR or not is irrelevant.
It is a judgement call. It was a bad call but not apology worthy.
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The holding wasn't bad, but the PI was awful whether it was a bang bang play or not. Collins was clearly making a play on the ball so whether he contacted the WR or not is irrelevant.
I don't know. I tend to think if that exact same play happened in reverse and Odell was the WR you would have a lot of posters here yelling about how the refs didn't call PI.
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He was going for the ball if he arrived at the time the ball was coming it's a clean call. I thought he was a 1/4 of a second early.
Hey we won. Who cares?
Because next time we might not.
Does it matter when he got there? I didn't think that had anything to do with it. He was clearly playing the ball. He was trying to high point the ball. He did what the NFL is asking defenses to do and that's play the ball. Would they prefer he tried to knock it out with a big hit because he was in great position to do that as well? That 1 call would have given the Giants the ball back and very well could have cost the game. I believe the ball call on DRC during the Cowboys game is a better example. Bad call that gave the opponent points and changed the course of the game.
Same here, and Papa and bBanks agreed. I'll say it could have gone the other way but it's a judgement call that likely usually goes with the WR.
I'm not in favor of slowing the game down or increasing any administrative/review stuff, but PI is such a game changer I think it might be worth doing.
and that's irrelevant to whether or not Collins deserved a penalty or not.
Collinsworth thought there was a good case for no, and he's usually pro- wide receiver and QB, not defender.
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I thought it was a penalty.
Same here, and Papa and bBanks agreed. I'll say it could have gone the other way but it's a judgement call that likely usually goes with the WR.
Yeah, I could have seen them letting it go, but I felt like it definitely tilted toward a penalty (especially on first blush). I'd have been annoyed if we didn't get that call if it happened to us.
What I came to say.
I was more pissed that Collinsworth said that call is going to be made every time. He should know better. He announced the opener when Fells was clearly held and it wasn't called.
I'm not in favor of slowing the game down or increasing any administrative/review stuff, but PI is such a game changer I think it might be worth doing.
and that's irrelevant to whether or not Collins deserved a penalty or not.
Collinsworth thought there was a good case for no, and he's usually pro- wide receiver and QB, not defender.
Fox pregame actually reported the opposite. They said there is increased discussion about making some penalties reviewable, like Wagner batting the ball out of the EZ, but "judgment" calls like holding and PI were likely to be excluded.
Holding I can understand, but PI needs to be reviewable. Too many horrific calls (DRC against Dallas) that have a significant impact on the game.
Let me ask everyone this, if OBJ gets hit like that, what say you?
I think it's PI.
You should look again. The ball hit Collins in the hand.
Landon is showing hands of stone tho, i have him scored w 4 dropped INTs (with 0 conversions). He shouldve iced the game late by picking Kap in the endzone. He looks great as a banger but showing people projecting him to SS were right.
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
Which is amazing because Coleman's crew, I believe, throws the most flags week in, week out.
Landon is showing hands of stone tho, i have him scored w 4 dropped INTs (with 0 conversions). He shouldve iced the game late by picking Kap in the endzone. He looks great as a banger but showing people projecting him to SS were right.
Wouldn't shock me if he gets super anxious with these INT opportunities. He's pressing to get one. Once he slows down they'll be converted.
But he was always going to be a SS. The question with him was could he cover enough to be a complete SS.
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
Collinsworth was talking all game about how a jersey tug always draws a flag. Yet, (IIRC) 1-2 plays before the PI there was the most blatant jersey "tug" I've ever seen by their RT after Wynn blew past him. He was literally just hanging onto Wynn from behind for a solid second and no flag.
whatever ref made that call should be demoted because even though it got overturned, it revealed pure incompetence
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on passing downs especially.
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
Collinsworth was talking all game about how a jersey tug always draws a flag. Yet, (IIRC) 1-2 plays before the PI there was the most blatant jersey "tug" I've ever seen by their RT after Wynn blew past him. He was literally just hanging onto Wynn from behind for a solid second and no flag.
Late in the game, SF was tugging jerseys play after play in plain sight because nothing was being called.
2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.
3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.
could richburg have been called for an ineligible receiver downfield on the big 3rd and 10 screen pass? he left a little earlier than the pass was caught and started blocking his man 5 yards from the LOS but did not make contact until after the pass was caught.
Also, I think they got it right but the refs could have called grounding on the 2nd and 10 play from the 49 right after the int was Overturned
2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.
3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.
Yes, I think they got away with a couple delays.
I think throwing the flag there was understandable from the angle the ref had. Ideally, though, I think what happens there is the refs get together and someone see the play from the other angle says he was playing to ball. And, they pick up the flag. It was a close call and not an obviously blown call like the DRC play against the Cowboys.
could richburg have been called for an ineligible receiver downfield on the big 3rd and 10 screen pass? he left a little earlier than the pass was caught and started blocking his man 5 yards from the LOS but did not make contact until after the pass was caught.
Richburg was 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage when the ball was released, so it wasn't very close to ineligible receiver downfield (they let you get 1 yard past the line).
If the penalty isn't called, it's 3rd and 5 for SF.....Still think we stop them?
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1) That was a pure judgement call. Even if replay was allowed, some people would view it as a fraction early, some would say it is clean. He was clearly going for the ball, but it is a question of whether he went through the WR a fraction of a second early or not.
2) The holding call on DRC was 100% correct. He could have gotten flagged on 2 separate occasions on that play.
3) Did anyone else think a Delay of Game flag was in order on a 3rd down play in the 2nd quarter where Kaepernick ended up scrambling for a first? It seemed like the ball was snapped a full second after the clock hit 00, well after what they allow for leeway.
Yes, I think they got away with a couple delays.
Agreed, I was shocked they didn't get called. I feel like Eli would absolutely be called for those.
Agreed, I was shocked they didn't get called. I feel like Eli would absolutely be called for those.
Maybe I'm just a homer, but I feel like Eli gets no leeway on delays. Yet almost every other QB gets at least a full second. I swear Romo had 2-3 delays week 1 where he snapped in 2 seconds after it hit 0 and no flag.
The Collins PI call was more suspect but not a flat-out wrong call.
BTW - DRC is not getting the benefit of the doubt on plays thus far so he probably needs to watch it a bit...
It feels to me like the people who think it was a PI don't know the rules. Either that or they never saw the replay from the clearest angle.
I dunno. I did't disagree with that call.
The call on Collins pretty much says the DB doesn't have the right to go for the ball after all if he in any way impedes the receiver.
Coleman and Anderson's crews should be put to pasture.
I don't mind not throwing flags for most of the holding. OL is a tough job and I'd prefer not to stop the game after every play for a penalty. The problem is, and it's been this way for years, is they allow it all game, then suddenly ALWAYS call it on the Giants after a big play. It happens a couple of times a week, I swear. I remember us screaming about Strahan and Tuck getting held on every play, and they rarely got the call. But come the 4th quarter, as soon as the Giants ran for a nice 30 yard gain...."holding, number 77 offense"