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Unga In Pass Defense

wonderback : 10/12/2015 9:37 am
Can you guys help me out here. I've played and followed football for years. I know I don't know more about defense than Spags. I'm completely lost here though. Why, in obvious passing situations is Unga on the field. We've seen over the years, plenty of exotic formations on defense in passing situations - big nickel, dime defense. And yet, a first year, undrafted MLB is always on the field in critical passing downs. He has failed or has been targeted by the opposition in almost every situation.

I'm not blaming him. I know how hard it is today for a MLB to play in space. Very few guys can do it well, which is why so many are pulled in these situations on other teams. Are we to believe Cooper Taylor, for example, is so bad in coverage that Unga gives us a better chance for success? That's hard to believe.

What am I missing?
Perhaps because Beason was concussed?  
njm : 10/12/2015 9:39 am : link
As far as other games are concerned he has the speed to keep up with the TEs and RBs. That being said, he is also going through the rookie learning curve that all but the best face early in their careers.
RE: Perhaps because Beason was concussed?  
giants#1 : 10/12/2015 9:40 am : link
In comment 12543962 njm said:
Quote:
As far as other games are concerned he has the speed to keep up with the TEs and RBs. That being said, he is also going through the rookie learning curve that all but the best face early in their careers.


And Casillas and Kennard were inactive. I'm pretty sure we were down to Unga, Thomas, Herzlich, and Brinkley at LB.
Unga is better in pass D  
aquidneck : 10/12/2015 9:41 am : link
than Beason (or at least it's close). Unga is young and making mistakes, but his skill set is pass D from the mlb position.

Don't think Spags is a 3 safety guy. That was Fewell.
Spags must feel Unga is the best MIKE option he's got  
JonC : 10/12/2015 9:42 am : link
Judging by Spags' comments on Taylor, for example, indicate Cooper isn't demonstrating grasp in practice.
Unga is as lost in pass coverage as anyone I've ever seen.  
NYGmen58 : 10/12/2015 9:45 am : link
I like his effort and athleticism but he is a total liability. We MUST have a better option at MLB.

I assume Casillas would normally be in there as the Mike in nickel/dime packages.

He routinely gets torched by RBs and backup TEs make him twirl around like a ballerina.
Out of the box  
Mdgiantsfan : 10/12/2015 9:46 am : link
Back in the Dallas game, it was terrible watching Unga essentially giving up easy gainers against Dallas's RBs on the game winning drive. So to the point of this post, in obvious passing situations why have an overmatched LB over a more athletic DB? Is Cooper worse in coverage than Unga? Or is it the play calling responsibilities?
Unga was the MIKE when Casillas was active  
JonC : 10/12/2015 9:47 am : link
Casillas played the OLB slot and Thomas came out.
Wow!!  
wonderback : 10/12/2015 9:47 am : link
So you guys feel that Unga is our best option in obvious passing situations even though we are getting killed by other teams tight ends. Another safety in these situations (and you would think a safety could cover better than any linebacker) is not an option?

Sorry guys, I don't buy it.
Unga  
Mike in NY : 10/12/2015 9:50 am : link
More athletic than Beason and when he diagnoses a play correctly he is usually around the ball. The problem is he really cannot diagnose plays well and lacks Beason's ability to properly arrange the defense. Even if Beason is not making the play he has put that the rest of the D in a better position to make it. Unga is the "Stevie Brown of LB's" (pre-injury). He will make dazzling plays that you cannot believe he got to, but usually if he is in the right place it is more dumb luck than play recognition.
If Unga demonstrates grasp in practice  
JonC : 10/12/2015 9:51 am : link
he's going to get the game nod, he's the backup MIKE and that's a position that doesn't often come out of the game.

I'd be thrilled with a better option, but looking at the roster right now I don't see one, and Spags' comment indicate no confidence in one either.
I guess because he calls the signals  
jeff57 : 10/12/2015 9:52 am : link
I can't think of any other reason because he's beyond horrible in coverage.
Teams keep throwing at Unga in RZ, especially to TE.  
Steve Filipowicz : 10/12/2015 9:59 am : link
If Casilas is healthy, maybe in RZ having Thomas at MLB, which he's played previously, and Kennard and Casillas at OLB would give the Giants a better D.
Wait a minute!  
wonderback : 10/12/2015 10:01 am : link
Plenty of other teams MLB call the defensive signals. Also many of them come out on third and long. This is not unusual. We're talking about an undrafted, free agent, first year player. Nobody else can get the defense situated on third and long? No other player can cover better than Unga?

If I was the other teams offensive coordinator I would find out who Unga is covering and throw to that guy. Every time.

And I'm not shitting on Unga here. I like the guy. I think he'll improve. It's just that, at this time, he's a total liability in pass coverage. And I'm at a loss to understand why everyone, including the Giant coaching staff, can't see that.

Certainly the other team's offensive brain trust can.
Which way do you want it?  
HomerJones45 : 10/12/2015 10:06 am : link
BBI bitches and moans that TC won't play inexperienced players and then when they play and make mistakes, it bitches and moans that the players stink.

Unga is a fast lb'r on a defense that needed a serious speed upgrade. This is his first year in actual game play. He is fast enough to cover these tight ends and some of the running backs. His pass defense techniques need work.

Best result is he learns some techniques on the fly while playing. At worst, he's a speed injection into the defense until a more complete lb'r can be found.

And he's a damn sight better than Williams and some of the other lb'rs we have had in here.
Yeah, I don't get why another player can't fill Unga's role  
jeff57 : 10/12/2015 10:07 am : link
in obvious passing situations.
wonderback  
JonC : 10/12/2015 10:15 am : link
No one here has access to the info/answers you seek.
I'm not bitching  
wonderback : 10/12/2015 10:16 am : link
I like that Unga is being played. I think he'll get better. There are plenty of opportunities for him to play pass defense during a game. I'm just questioning why that aren't better options in OBVIOUS passing downs or the end of the fourth quarter where we know the other team is going to have to pass on every down.
JonC  
wonderback : 10/12/2015 10:22 am : link
I guess we can't expect the press to ask that kind of a question in the post game press conference or during the week or even offer and explanation of why such a obvious deficiency is not addressed. That would be asking too much. We need to be treated to the same long winded blather that adds nothing to our understanding of the team or its play.
Not likely to receive answers  
JonC : 10/12/2015 10:24 am : link
much different than what I've posted here, they're unlikely to reveal their hand.

I get it, it's frustrating, but you're wasting a lot of energy over it.
Fans only focus on the plays  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/12/2015 10:25 am : link
When he gets beat and ignore the others. All MLBs get beat
RE: Fans only focus on the plays  
jeff57 : 10/12/2015 10:27 am : link
In comment 12544147 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
When he gets beat and ignore the others.


Other than that Mrs. Lincoln . . . .
Overall I like Unga  
Matt M. : 10/12/2015 10:29 am : link
He plays the run well. He is essentially a decent player when he is moving toward the line of scrimmage. When he is moving back in coverage or especially turning his back for coverage, he is a liability right now. I see signs that he will get better.

That said, the go ahead TD was about the worst I've seen a MLB get faked out.
I guess this will have to  
wonderback : 10/12/2015 11:07 am : link
be one of those unanswerable questions like, why do we throw to the tight end on a two yard out when it's third and 9 for the last 10 years.
Even at his advanced age..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/12/2015 11:10 am : link
and injury issues, Beason is a much better cover LB than Unga.

Much better. The only difference is that Unga looks like he's trying and he's got Polumalu hair.
RE: Even at his advanced age..  
NYGmen58 : 10/12/2015 11:16 am : link
In comment 12544286 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and injury issues, Beason is a much better cover LB than Unga.

Much better. The only difference is that Unga looks like he's trying and he's got Polumalu hair.



Absolutely.
FMIC  
wonderback : 10/12/2015 11:17 am : link
Finally got the answer. It's the Polamalu hair. Thanks!
Fats  
JonC : 10/12/2015 11:18 am : link
100%
It's  
NJGiantFan84 : 10/12/2015 11:34 am : link
very difficult to sub defenders during the two minute drill based on down and distance. You have to go with whats on the field.

And they had plenty of time to run the ball more if the Giants put a nickel or dime package out there.
I thought one reason to sign Thomas was to backup MLB  
Ivan15 : 10/12/2015 11:51 am : link
I thought the Giants signed him because he looked at least average in coverage as a MLB in Jacksonville.

I think I would rather see Thomas in the middle before Unga.
Ivan  
JonC : 10/12/2015 11:52 am : link
That's true, but it seems Unga has surpassed Thomas since then.
another thing to keep in mind  
Mighty : 10/12/2015 12:02 pm : link
If i remnember right isnt there only 2 extra helmets with green dots allowed and its determined before the start of the game which players have them? didnt something come up a couple years ago where a starter with the dot got hurt and it caused some problems because only one other player could wear the special helmet and they had to use strictly hand signals or something else when that player was off the field.

If i am remembering correctly then id guess beason and unga would have those so with beason down you wouldnt take unga out for an extra safety.
funny I've seen  
bc4life : 10/12/2015 1:10 pm : link
Unga tip passes, change trajectories of passes, even had a pick. He's pretty athletics so that has a lot to do with it. He's a rook so you are going to have to live with some mistakes.
He played very good pass D  
WideRight : 10/12/2015 1:41 pm : link
in the Buffalo game
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