I don't particularly care for them or even for "team" celebrations (stupidly penalized by the NFL), but I don't have an issue with players celebrating either.
Of course, if you score a garbage time TD down 3 TDs with 2 min to play, then just give the ref the ball and get off the field.
If players are going to start to get hurt during them
between the players. They probably pay attention to what other players do. Especially when there was a competition between Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens. They all want to one up each other.
I'm with you. I heard someone say, "Act as if you've been there."
I think it is both a generational and cultural thing; it does nothing for me.
Didn't Bavaro just hand the ball to the nearest official? Bradshaw's "Jump and spike", was pretty cool.
Agree. Definitely prefer Bavaro's style. I like a show of exhuberance after a score, Jump up, yell, high 5 etc. But I hate the pre-planned, choreographed demonstrations that say "Hey, look at me!!! Look what I did!!!"
I think the choreographed nature of it takes away from the more natural joy. I also worry about injuries now since they are getting more extreme (i.e., the Eagles player diving into the end zone yesterday).
...and it's not just a (recent) generational thing
I don't particularly care for them or even for "team" celebrations (stupidly penalized by the NFL), but I don't have an issue with players celebrating either.
Of course, if you score a garbage time TD down 3 TDs with 2 min to play, then just give the ref the ball and get off the field.
Yes when he first did it he explained that he wasn't trying to show off or show anyone up but instead because she taught him to salsa and he wanted her to watch him dance it as a celebration in her honor. Once she passed away he could have retired it after that season since she no longer would be watching. But it became his trademark so it isn't surprising he continued it.
but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
...for celebrating sports success. That said it doesn't really bother me when they show off so long as it isn't done in a manner to specifically showup the opponent.
I don't care as long you don't hurt yourself doing it.
what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
I'm fine with celebrations if they don't get hurt.
what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
I believe the question put to us was does it appeal to us. Seems people are addressing that question.
but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
Different sort of thing, to me. Athletic competition is the only thing left that calls to one's primal nature. It's the reason fans go absolutely insane and get emotionally invested. It's got to be much more so when you're out there doing things with the athletic ability of a superhero. I think it changes your whole perception.
We apply a standard of 'professionalism' to sports figures that I think is misplaced because it's just not the same world.
RE: RE: This board will hate on 99% of players celebrating TD's
but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
Different sort of thing, to me. Athletic competition is the only thing left that calls to one's primal nature. It's the reason fans go absolutely insane and get emotionally invested. It's got to be much more so when you're out there doing things with the athletic ability of a superhero. I think it changes your whole perception.
We apply a standard of 'professionalism' to sports figures that I think is misplaced because it's just not the same world.
Regardless whether you can't or I can relate or not the point is what you are describing still would explain spontaneous not choreographed celebrations. Choreographed responses actual display less sheer joy of them being in and reacting to the moment.
what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
Considering the NFL is entertainment, how exactly is a choreographed celebration unprofessional?
what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
I believe the question put to us was does it appeal to us. Seems people are addressing that question.
It's one thing to enjoy it or not. That's a personal preference. But it seems some people actually hold it against these guys.
what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
Considering the NFL is entertainment, how exactly is a choreographed celebration unprofessional?
I'm sure TC would knock this one out of the park, lel.
but the choreographed end zone dances don't do anything for me. By definition: If they're choreographed, they're pre-planned, not spontaneous. I think the whole thing jumped the shark when Joe Horn took a cell phone out from the goalpost padding. Puh-leeze.
But I enjoy Victor Cruz's salsa because it's become sort of of a trademark, and it's simple, and it comes from a sincere place -- trying to honor his latino heritage and family.
I'm not a great fan of ostentatious displays of piety so I don't like the crossing-myself/genuflecting celebrations either, like Bavaro used to do, but in a game that's that dangerous, I understand the desire to thank the universe for just being alive and able to play. And I think the guys that do that are sincere, so I figure if they want to do that, well, that's not my business.
Hynoski's rhino dance was pretty funny. (Was it Madison Hedgecock who'd row, like rowing to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl?) But I could do without all that. I don't long for the "manly," stoic, Greatest Generation, just-hand-the-ball-to-the-ref days, I think the choreography actually makes the celebration LESS interesting, because it's so un-spontaneous. They certainly don't play well on TV.
Used to have the cameraman dance whenever one of them scored. It was hilarious. Of course as we all know, Warrick didn't get in the end zone a lot, so it was mostly him photographing CJ.
what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
Considering the NFL is entertainment, how exactly is a choreographed celebration unprofessional?
Sure it's entertainment. In the general sense of the word. It's sports not The Radio City Rocketts
is when the player is too busy doing the dance and brushes off their teammates.
After Beckham's TD last night, several teammates came close to him to say congrats and celebrate with him but it's seemed he was too into the dance and pushed a few away till he was done dancing.
It's not only him, I've see a lot of players do similar things. When the O-Line, who also had a hand in the success of that play, run over to celebrate with their teammate but only to be pushed away or be put on hold till the dance is done is really annoying.
is when they overly celebrate a moment while their team is getting blown out. You see a guy make a good tackle after they have been blowing by him most of the game and his team is down by three TD's don't act like you just won the division after with that one tackle.
is that, if I can't tell what the hell you're doing, it sucks.
Cruz's salsa is fine (if a bit on the nose). I don't know what the hell OBJ is doing when he scores. I just end up praying he stops before he hurts himself or gets tagged with a penalty.
Homer Jones spiked the ball after a score.. Never dreamed it would lead to the celebrations we see today. Not really a fan of them...but I think that's a generational thing.
I also remember Dion Sanders once saying it is also a cultural thing.
When Eric posted it last week I watched and loved it as I recalled almost every game. What struck me besides how smaller and slower some of the players looked,was how professional the players were when they scored. Maybe I'm too old to "appreciate" the dancing and such but I really like when a players scores a touchdown and hands the ball to the ref like he's done this a thousand times before.
They bust their asses to earn the right to enjoy that moment after a touchdown.
Someone asked if we like it. Nobody said they don't have the right to do it. Reading comprehension.
Exactly. People read what they want to read regardless of the actual words. This was no more evident than on the game thread last night. I almost never go on the game thread, and I was reminded of the reason why.
and frankly they appeal to a lot of people. If you don't get it it's probably because you're not young or not hip. Eventually even the whip because main stream and will work its way down to you oldies.
and frankly they appeal to a lot of people. If you don't get it it's probably because you're not young or not hip. Eventually even the whip because main stream and will work its way down to you oldies.
First, judging by the responses here, they do not appeal to a lot of people. Second, although its clear that they appeal more to younger people, but it has nothing to do with "not getting it". It appears that the particular dance or demonstration has little to do with it. Its the "Look at me, do you see what I did!" narcissistic attitude that most don't care for, but no surprise that the younger generation does.
Both athletes and entertainers. Some are more into the entertaining aspect of the game.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
like a fucking tool doing that dance. As done any other player with some gay ass faggot dance. Just spike the ball or jump up in your teammates arms. Or give it to the crowd. Please dont do something as fucking stupid as OBJ or any of these other 20-something "#kingsdokingthings" "#royalty" fucking gay ass shit. Youre a fucking football player, not on dancing with the stars.
like a fucking tool doing that dance. As done any other player with some gay ass faggot dance. Just spike the ball or jump up in your teammates arms. Or give it to the crowd. Please dont do something as fucking stupid as OBJ or any of these other 20-something "#kingsdokingthings" "#royalty" fucking gay ass shit. Youre a fucking football player, not on dancing with the stars.
Awwww...We hardly knew ye? Not a fan of the celebrations but you are a fucking tool.
like a fucking tool doing that dance. As done any other player with some gay ass faggot dance. Just spike the ball or jump up in your teammates arms. Or give it to the crowd. Please dont do something as fucking stupid as OBJ or any of these other 20-something "#kingsdokingthings" "#royalty" fucking gay ass shit. Youre a fucking football player, not on dancing with the stars.
Nice language, I'm sure you're a real piece of work.
Both athletes and entertainers. Some are more into the entertaining aspect of the game.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
In simple words...Oh fucking well.
Regarding entertainment, suppose you went to a Rap concert and someone proceeded to sing opera. I would suspect that the entertainment we tune in for is a football game. Its not unreasonable for us to not consider these self promoting antics as the "entertainment" we are looking for
If guys want to use props or do some group choreographed thing, they should. I don't think penalties against those actions should be impacting game results.
My personal belief is that they look stupid and do not show the celebrating player in a good light.
RE: I don't think any endzone stuff should be banned
If guys want to use props or do some group choreographed thing, they should. I don't think penalties against those actions should be impacting game results.
My personal belief is that they look stupid and do not show the celebrating player in a good light.
I don't think they should be banned because they don't appeal to fans. But I think the reason some of it is banned is to minimize the taunting aspect which could lead to some physical retaliation.
RE: RE: Meh...it's an entertainment industry with the players beibg
Both athletes and entertainers. Some are more into the entertaining aspect of the game.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
In simple words...Oh fucking well.
Regarding entertainment, suppose you went to a Rap concert and someone proceeded to sing opera. I would suspect that the entertainment we tune in for is a football game. Its not unreasonable for us to not consider these self promoting antics as the "entertainment" we are looking for
To each his own, right? I don't begrudge you or anyone else for not liking it. But at the same time, to say that it's what's wrong with today's NFL and players is also not right. It's something we all watch to get enjoyment out of in our own ways. I see the NFL as nothing more than entertainment and the Giants as my favorite team but nothing beyond it as a source of my enjoyment. As I said before...oh fucking well.
RE: RE: RE: Meh...it's an entertainment industry with the players beibg
Both athletes and entertainers. Some are more into the entertaining aspect of the game.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
In simple words...Oh fucking well.
Regarding entertainment, suppose you went to a Rap concert and someone proceeded to sing opera. I would suspect that the entertainment we tune in for is a football game. Its not unreasonable for us to not consider these self promoting antics as the "entertainment" we are looking for
To each his own, right? I don't begrudge you or anyone else for not liking it. But at the same time, to say that it's what's wrong with today's NFL and players is also not right. It's something we all watch to get enjoyment out of in our own ways. I see the NFL as nothing more than entertainment and the Giants as my favorite team but nothing beyond it as a source of my enjoyment. As I said before...oh fucking well.
I hope you are not under the impression that I said anything that could be construed as "its what's wrong with today's NFL". I don't care for it, but that's simply personal opinion and taste. Mine is no better than anyone else's
Maybe not you, but others have said or implied otherwise. This goes back to several years ago with people bitching about how players dressed when doing post game interviews, etc. It's the same old argument of how things have gone down hill in the NFL and other professional sports. Some people take this game way too seriously sometimes.
Maybe not you, but others have said or implied otherwise. This goes back to several years ago with people bitching about how players dressed when doing post game interviews, etc. It's the same old argument of how things have gone down hill in the NFL and other professional sports. Some people take this game way too seriously sometimes.
Well, I'll go along with that. I understand that the world wasn't designed to please me. And yes, some do take it all too seriously.
but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
have these celebrations if they were allowed down to pee wee football and little league.
It's either to taunt your opponents or for a "look at me" moment. I think it has evolved into more of a "look at me" thing than in the past, which it was more to taunt your opponent.
I don't like them in general, but every once in the while I will get a kick out of one like when hedgecock rowed his way to Hawaii for the probowl.
How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I do get a chuckle out of the good ones. (Odell's was awful Sunday Night.) And unlike many old farts, I really liked the choreographed TD celebrations like the "bomb." I think Cruz's salsa is one of the best.
As for the taunting, tough shyte, stop the play if you don't want to be taunted.
RE: RE: RE: It's always an interesting conversation
but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
Different sort of thing, to me. Athletic competition is the only thing left that calls to one's primal nature. It's the reason fans go absolutely insane and get emotionally invested. It's got to be much more so when you're out there doing things with the athletic ability of a superhero. I think it changes your whole perception.
We apply a standard of 'professionalism' to sports figures that I think is misplaced because it's just not the same world.
If watching football is all that you can think of to do that calls to your primal nature, I suggest that you get outside more.
Go camping. Learn to ride a horse. Go bow hunting.
There are a multitude of things that aren't passive activities that will give you a much, much better outlet.
As far as the celebrations- They only bother me when they're on my lawn.
I think that many of us were annoyed by Shockey doing a back flip every time he caught a 10 yard pass. I sure was. Once in a while is awesome, and does add to the moment. Every time gets tedious. And it is more tedious if it's part of your "branding."
How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I think that many of us were annoyed by Shockey doing a back flip every time he caught a 10 yard pass. I sure was. Once in a while is awesome, and does add to the moment. Every time gets tedious. And it is more tedious if it's part of your "branding."
Definitely agree with this.
Although the branding aspect does turn me off, I can't really begrudge a player for trying to maximize their earning potential (making highlight reels with a celebration). And really, the guys that overdo it- well that pretty much gets sorted out in the wash especially when they don't perform...if that makes any sense.
I think that many of us were annoyed by Shockey doing a back flip every time he caught a 10 yard pass. I sure was. Once in a while is awesome, and does add to the moment. Every time gets tedious. And it is more tedious if it's part of your "branding."
Definitely agree with this.
Although the branding aspect does turn me off, I can't really begrudge a player for trying to maximize their earning potential (making highlight reels with a celebration). And really, the guys that overdo it- well that pretty much gets sorted out in the wash especially when they don't perform...if that makes any sense.
Fair point.
Back to Shockey for a second: I always thought that he played a big role in the introduction of a penalty for spiking the ball during play. Seems like he'd spike it every freaking time he caught it.
That said I do think Cruz's Salsa dance is cool. But I do prefer they be more professional and just hand the ball to the ref or better yet give the ball to a fan.
Now on game winning TDs a celebration where all the players on the field congratulate the guy who scored is perfectly acceptable.
Did you see the SF guy trying to get the ref to throw a celebration (taunting) flag after Donnel's TD? LOL!
How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I'm not sure that it's weak when number of posters have specifically indicated this being a new thing or generational thing in an attempt to call the current generation "look at me" generation, and really, knowing who many of the posters are (and their age groups), I would say that my question about the age is valid.
As far as the tongue-in-cheek question (that I didn't even finish) about white, you can take it as however you want. But once again, several posters talked about it being a cultural thing. Because some have stated that they liked quiet legends like Barry Sanders (who obviously is African American) doesn't negate the racial undertone of many of these threads. I specifically mentioned previous threads regarding how players dress to drive home this point. Or how about how many people called Richard Sherman a thug several years ago because he called out Crabtree after the NFC Championship game? Some of those posters are the same ones making comments regarding their disdain for the current topic. So you go on and believe whatever you want. The totality of the sentiments are not so subtle that it's only seen by a few people. But whatever, man. It's just my opinion and shit.
whether it's the whip, the salsa or the hyno rhino. chad Johnson was the master of the hilarious end zone dances he was just a complete goofball but it was all in good fun.
it's a game and fun entertainment not life or death. these guys are also young, full of testosterone and on top of the world so they enjoy celebrating when they make a big play.
whether it's the whip, the salsa or the hyno rhino. chad Johnson was the master of the hilarious end zone dances he was just a complete goofball but it was all in good fun.
it's a game and fun entertainment not life or death. these guys are also young, full of testosterone and on top of the world so they enjoy celebrating when they make a big play.
How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I'm not sure that it's weak when number of posters have specifically indicated this being a new thing or generational thing in an attempt to call the current generation "look at me" generation, and really, knowing who many of the posters are (and their age groups), I would say that my question about the age is valid.
As far as the tongue-in-cheek question (that I didn't even finish) about white, you can take it as however you want. But once again, several posters talked about it being a cultural thing. Because some have stated that they liked quiet legends like Barry Sanders (who obviously is African American) doesn't negate the racial undertone of many of these threads. I specifically mentioned previous threads regarding how players dress to drive home this point. Or how about how many people called Richard Sherman a thug several years ago because he called out Crabtree after the NFC Championship game? Some of those posters are the same ones making comments regarding their disdain for the current topic. So you go on and believe whatever you want. The totality of the sentiments are not so subtle that it's only seen by a few people. But whatever, man. It's just my opinion and shit.
I'd put it like this: it can have racial undertones, no doubt. Agreed. But it's hard to make strong claims about it when for somebody like me, the most annoying Giant was definitely Shockey in this regard with the antics I've described above. OBJ's dance doesn't annoy me anywhere near as much. Any Hyno's was just dumb as fuck and too self-referential for my simple tastes.
The original question was do they appeal to us. That's all. My answer is usually "no" and not when they seem to have to do with a player's self-branding. Spontaneous joy, however, is always awesome and I love that. I'm not bemoaning the state of the league or anything like that.
And again, let's assume there is a generational divide. Why choose one generation as wrong or off on that basis? Pretty sure that's just ageism (no irony). You need to go further into it besides noting the divide to justify one side as being largely correct. That was my point.
As always, I'm just chatting with ya, man. No teeth in it on my side, and happy to see your side.
I'm watching people be paid millions of dollars to play a game
So yes, I like seeing the touchdown celebrations - it tells me that the players are enjoying themselves.
I do find it a bit strange when a player celebrates making a tackle seven yards downfield on 1st and 10 - that's not a good result! - but I wouldn't say it bothers me.
IMHO I would allow any celebration as long as:
(a) it doesn't result in a delay of game
(b) doesn't involve props other than the football (go ahead and use the football, they use a different ball for extra points anyway)
(c) doesn't include a violent gesture (no throat slashes)
and (d) is not specifically directed at an opposing player or coach or the opposing sideline (to encourage celebrations rather than taunting).
as cocky and arrogant. They are not even fun to watch. I have enjoyed the tazer as comical. I enjoyed the hynocerous as comical and representative. The salsa is representative too. OBJ goes through several whether they are copied or his own but none of them have been entertaining.
Some of it is pure excitement that they have to get out. It also ups their stock in popularity which helps with endorsements. OBJ has been getting more endorsements than I have ever seen from anyone after their rookie year (outside of a QB). Is his persona a part of that? Hard to say.
For the record, I'm a big fan of handing the ball off to the nearest official. The just doing my job attitude. Bavaro and Sanders approach.
parlayed the Ickey Shuffle into a National commercial. I have about the same level of getting annoyed as I do with Soccer goal celebrations which is 0 because it is hard to score
I'd put it like this: it can have racial undertones, no doubt. Agreed. But it's hard to make strong claims about it when for somebody like me, the most annoying Giant was definitely Shockey in this regard with the antics I've described above. OBJ's dance doesn't annoy me anywhere near as much. Any Hyno's was just dumb as fuck and too self-referential for my simple tastes.
The original question was do they appeal to us. That's all. My answer is usually "no" and not when they seem to have to do with a player's self-branding. Spontaneous joy, however, is always awesome and I love that. I'm not bemoaning the state of the league or anything like that.
And again, let's assume there is a generational divide. Why choose one generation as wrong or off on that basis? Pretty sure that's just ageism (no irony). You need to go further into it besides noting the divide to justify one side as being largely correct. That was my point.
As always, I'm just chatting with ya, man. No teeth in it on my side, and happy to see your side.
Eh...no one is saying the opinions of any specific age group is wrong, as long as it's based on personal preference (just like Rive Mike stated). However, when members of one group starts taking pot shot at the current generation for being "look at me" or juvenile because these players are from this generation or those, who enjoy these theatrics are of current generation, then it becomes wrong. That's been my point throughout my posts...people looking down on others because they don't agree or even understand the appeal of the showmanship. As I've stated earlier, oh fucking well.
I don't mind a spike, a quick spontaneous dance, etc. But, the choreographed crap is nonsense. Hell, even the Cruz Salsa dance is a little tired at this point. Once it's no longer spontaneous, it loses it's appeal to me.
I liked Mark Bavaro flipping the ball to an official and kneeling or LT dumping the ball over his shoulder.
is "we like our players spoken too, not seen or heard from". I don't think it's definitively racial, but there's inherent bias with generations/ethnicities/cultures that we're not familiar with or don't really relate to. Like I mentioned before, it has the same ring to it as old timer basketball fans, longing for the days when basketball was a "gentleman's sport".
you would know he is a big music fan...I think doing the whip is just an extension of that and the whip/salsa was a tip of the cap to Cruz.
I agree completely with David in LA that there is definitely a generational/racial/cultural divide in attitudes to TD dances and similarities to the people who lament for the days of gentlemanly short shorts basketball
But, I didn't care much for them as a kid either. The stuff that looks spontaneous falls within the emotion and passion of the game. This choreographed, pre-meditated stuff I find kind of boring. that goes double for sack and tackle celebrations.
For example, I don't mind a guy jumping up and motioning for a first down. But, a whole dance for a routine catch, tackle, or sack? I don't think so.
you would know he is a big music fan...I think doing the whip is just an extension of that and the whip/salsa was a tip of the cap to Cruz.
I agree completely with David in LA that there is definitely a generational/racial/cultural divide in attitudes to TD dances and similarities to the people who lament for the days of gentlemanly short shorts basketball
OBJ has come out and stated on couple of occasions that he does the dances for his friends, who have either created them or are big fans of them. And while the whip was a hit, it didn't hurt it that OBJ (probably one of the highest profiled player in the NFL) started doing them as his dance. I'm sure that definitely up the popularity of it.
the first time (or first few times) knowing it was dedicated to his grandmother. Going back to the 80s, the Icky Shuffle was funny the first time or so. Once it became and every TD occurrence, it lost it's luster in a hurry.
the first time (or first few times) knowing it was dedicated to his grandmother. Going back to the 80s, the Icky Shuffle was funny the first time or so. Once it became and every TD occurrence, it lost it's luster in a hurry.
It's not coincidence that such dances were invented in the 80's, the height of cheesiness in American Culture.
Do they still penalize guys for dunking the football over the crossbar? I never understood that penalty. It seemed like a spur of the moment act no different than a spike.
at all. If they want to crack down on something, stop the scrub ST'er who made a hard hit to stop the returner at the 35, or penalize the safety who levels a RB who just plowed forward for a 1st down.
Celebrations for routine plays are a bigger issue, IMO.
Do they still penalize guys for dunking the football over the crossbar? I never understood that penalty. It seemed like a spur of the moment act no different than a spike.
The problem there is guys were screwing with the goal post alignment.
at all. If they want to crack down on something, stop the scrub ST'er who made a hard hit to stop the returner at the 35, or penalize the safety who levels a RB who just plowed forward for a 1st down.
Celebrations for routine plays are a bigger issue, IMO.
Agreed. But, whether I like the celebrations or not, I don't think penalties are warranted.
How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I'm not sure that it's weak when number of posters have specifically indicated this being a new thing or generational thing in an attempt to call the current generation "look at me" generation, and really, knowing who many of the posters are (and their age groups), I would say that my question about the age is valid.
As far as the tongue-in-cheek question (that I didn't even finish) about white, you can take it as however you want. But once again, several posters talked about it being a cultural thing. Because some have stated that they liked quiet legends like Barry Sanders (who obviously is African American) doesn't negate the racial undertone of many of these threads. I specifically mentioned previous threads regarding how players dress to drive home this point. Or how about how many people called Richard Sherman a thug several years ago because he called out Crabtree after the NFC Championship game? Some of those posters are the same ones making comments regarding their disdain for the current topic. So you go on and believe whatever you want. The totality of the sentiments are not so subtle that it's only seen by a few people. But whatever, man. It's just my opinion and shit.
I don't think liking Sanders' celebration but disliking the more exuberant celebrations and disliking the showboating culture is racist. Those same people probably disliked Shockey's antics. Critiquing Sherman for going after Crabtree also isn't racist. Even Sherman admitted he was a little over the line on that. It was a heat of the moment thing, though, so it's understandable.
And I say this as someone who likes Sherman (even though Revis, to me, is the better corner) and likes the pre-planned and choreographed celebrations if they are good/creative/funny I loved Ochocinco's stuff. (The NFL needs more of that,not less). I didn't like Joe Horn's celebration because it was against us, and I thought it was pretty dumb. I thought TO's sharpie was pretty funny. I prefer the group celebrations to the individual ones, though. I think they are funnier. I confess, I have no idea what Beckham is doing and it looks like a seizure to me.
As far as taunting goes, it seems to me that it happens routinely, but is only penalized once in a while. This is a brutal and emotional game where these people are basically sacrificing their long term health. I don't have a problem with them getting emotionally amped up about it.
The signaling first down after a routine catch is dumb, though. I think Frank Sanders of the Cardinals started that in the 90s. And as much as I loved Shockey, he was excessive, spiking the ball after every damn catch.
I did think Sanders' celebrations were cool, though because they were such a powerful statement. He was the best player in the NFL IMO for many years and was ranked waaaaaay too low on the NFL's top 100 of all time IMO, and nonchalantly tossing the ball to the ref and jogging back to the sidelines was genius. It was totally "zero fucks given" before that became a thing.
the first time (or first few times) knowing it was dedicated to his grandmother. Going back to the 80s, the Icky Shuffle was funny the first time or so. Once it became and every TD occurrence, it lost it's luster in a hurry.
I think it is both a generational and cultural thing; it does nothing for me.
Didn't Bavaro just hand the ball to the nearest official? Bradshaw's "Jump and spike", was pretty cool.
I don't particularly care for them or even for "team" celebrations (stupidly penalized by the NFL), but I don't have an issue with players celebrating either.
Of course, if you score a garbage time TD down 3 TDs with 2 min to play, then just give the ref the ball and get off the field.
That's what I and a bunch of others on here grew up on..In fact, Wasn't Homer Jones the first extracurricular TD activity with his spikes?
I think it is both a generational and cultural thing; it does nothing for me.
Didn't Bavaro just hand the ball to the nearest official? Bradshaw's "Jump and spike", was pretty cool.
Agree. Definitely prefer Bavaro's style. I like a show of exhuberance after a score, Jump up, yell, high 5 etc. But I hate the pre-planned, choreographed demonstrations that say "Hey, look at me!!! Look what I did!!!"
Top 10 TD Celebrations - ( New Window )
I don't particularly care for them or even for "team" celebrations (stupidly penalized by the NFL), but I don't have an issue with players celebrating either.
Of course, if you score a garbage time TD down 3 TDs with 2 min to play, then just give the ref the ball and get off the field.
Yes when he first did it he explained that he wasn't trying to show off or show anyone up but instead because she taught him to salsa and he wanted her to watch him dance it as a celebration in her honor. Once she passed away he could have retired it after that season since she no longer would be watching. But it became his trademark so it isn't surprising he continued it.
Like tattoos, they used to be fairly unique, now commonplace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQfECOLL2Zo&list=FLagDYisEOEYVVf7llZxjyIw&index=30 - ( New Window )
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
the dirty bird was great-
heck ballin was great...
loved the taser
discount double check was fantastic
the garbage OBJ did last night was awful.
the dirty bird was great-
heck ballin was great...
loved the taser
discount double check was fantastic
the garbage OBJ did last night was awful.
You forgot the icky shuffle
Really?! What on Earth would lead you to that conclusion?
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
I believe the question put to us was does it appeal to us. Seems people are addressing that question.
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but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
Different sort of thing, to me. Athletic competition is the only thing left that calls to one's primal nature. It's the reason fans go absolutely insane and get emotionally invested. It's got to be much more so when you're out there doing things with the athletic ability of a superhero. I think it changes your whole perception.
We apply a standard of 'professionalism' to sports figures that I think is misplaced because it's just not the same world.
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but will look the other way on Hynoski's and call that the best TD celebration ever.
Really?! What on Earth would lead you to that conclusion?
He's prolly insinuating it's because he's white.
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In comment 12545216 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
Different sort of thing, to me. Athletic competition is the only thing left that calls to one's primal nature. It's the reason fans go absolutely insane and get emotionally invested. It's got to be much more so when you're out there doing things with the athletic ability of a superhero. I think it changes your whole perception.
We apply a standard of 'professionalism' to sports figures that I think is misplaced because it's just not the same world.
Regardless whether you can't or I can relate or not the point is what you are describing still would explain spontaneous not choreographed celebrations. Choreographed responses actual display less sheer joy of them being in and reacting to the moment.
Hynoski's was one of the dumbest there is.
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In comment 12545264 David in LA said:
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but will look the other way on Hynoski's and call that the best TD celebration ever.
Really?! What on Earth would lead you to that conclusion?
He's prolly insinuating it's because he's white.
Lol.
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what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
Considering the NFL is entertainment, how exactly is a choreographed celebration unprofessional?
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what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
I believe the question put to us was does it appeal to us. Seems people are addressing that question.
It's one thing to enjoy it or not. That's a personal preference. But it seems some people actually hold it against these guys.
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In comment 12545268 RB^2 said:
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what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
Considering the NFL is entertainment, how exactly is a choreographed celebration unprofessional?
I'm sure TC would knock this one out of the park, lel.
But I enjoy Victor Cruz's salsa because it's become sort of of a trademark, and it's simple, and it comes from a sincere place -- trying to honor his latino heritage and family.
I'm not a great fan of ostentatious displays of piety so I don't like the crossing-myself/genuflecting celebrations either, like Bavaro used to do, but in a game that's that dangerous, I understand the desire to thank the universe for just being alive and able to play. And I think the guys that do that are sincere, so I figure if they want to do that, well, that's not my business.
Hynoski's rhino dance was pretty funny. (Was it Madison Hedgecock who'd row, like rowing to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl?) But I could do without all that. I don't long for the "manly," stoic, Greatest Generation, just-hand-the-ball-to-the-ref days, I think the choreography actually makes the celebration LESS interesting, because it's so un-spontaneous. They certainly don't play well on TV.
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In comment 12545268 RB^2 said:
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what's the big deal? These guys work their asses off to get in the end zone in the NFL. Let them enjoy and celebrate their accomplishment. Fans are free to enjoy it or ignore it. Denying them this little bit of fun is extremely petty, IMO.
Hard to ignore it when it's on your TV screen. It's unprofessional. Just spike the ball and get the hell off the field.
Considering the NFL is entertainment, how exactly is a choreographed celebration unprofessional?
Sure it's entertainment. In the general sense of the word. It's sports not The Radio City Rocketts
Let's celebrate football plays by pretending to be basketball players. Wait, what?
After Beckham's TD last night, several teammates came close to him to say congrats and celebrate with him but it's seemed he was too into the dance and pushed a few away till he was done dancing.
It's not only him, I've see a lot of players do similar things. When the O-Line, who also had a hand in the success of that play, run over to celebrate with their teammate but only to be pushed away or be put on hold till the dance is done is really annoying.
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I admit, I liked that one.
I love a genuine show of emotion, but hate the look at me bullshit. I didn't like that crap OBJ did last night at all. He looked like a buffoon.
I find them contrived, unentertaining,stupid and a waste of time.
It's just self-promoting and juvenile.
Imagine winning a hole in professional golf and Phil Mickelson decides to do a little gig? It would be dumb. Just as it is in the NFL.
Cruz's salsa is fine (if a bit on the nose). I don't know what the hell OBJ is doing when he scores. I just end up praying he stops before he hurts himself or gets tagged with a penalty.
I also remember Dion Sanders once saying it is also a cultural thing.
Not for the kids - ( New Window )
I could see Eli busting that out as big of a Sienfield fan as he is.
Nice touchdown Odell! Did ya see my new dance? Uhh No. Oh.
Someone asked if we like it. Nobody said they don't have the right to do it. Reading comprehension.
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They bust their asses to earn the right to enjoy that moment after a touchdown.
Someone asked if we like it. Nobody said they don't have the right to do it. Reading comprehension.
Exactly. People read what they want to read regardless of the actual words. This was no more evident than on the game thread last night. I almost never go on the game thread, and I was reminded of the reason why.
Martin Gramatica - ( New Window )
A clip of pee wee football players doing obj's dance from last year made national rounds
I could probably cite a dozen other examples of end zone dances achieving popularity
So, yes, they do appeal to people
First, judging by the responses here, they do not appeal to a lot of people. Second, although its clear that they appeal more to younger people, but it has nothing to do with "not getting it". It appears that the particular dance or demonstration has little to do with it. Its the "Look at me, do you see what I did!" narcissistic attitude that most don't care for, but no surprise that the younger generation does.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
In simple words...Oh fucking well.
Nice language, I'm sure you're a real piece of work.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
In simple words...Oh fucking well.
Regarding entertainment, suppose you went to a Rap concert and someone proceeded to sing opera. I would suspect that the entertainment we tune in for is a football game. Its not unreasonable for us to not consider these self promoting antics as the "entertainment" we are looking for
My personal belief is that they look stupid and do not show the celebrating player in a good light.
My personal belief is that they look stupid and do not show the celebrating player in a good light.
I don't think they should be banned because they don't appeal to fans. But I think the reason some of it is banned is to minimize the taunting aspect which could lead to some physical retaliation.
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Both athletes and entertainers. Some are more into the entertaining aspect of the game.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
In simple words...Oh fucking well.
Regarding entertainment, suppose you went to a Rap concert and someone proceeded to sing opera. I would suspect that the entertainment we tune in for is a football game. Its not unreasonable for us to not consider these self promoting antics as the "entertainment" we are looking for
To each his own, right? I don't begrudge you or anyone else for not liking it. But at the same time, to say that it's what's wrong with today's NFL and players is also not right. It's something we all watch to get enjoyment out of in our own ways. I see the NFL as nothing more than entertainment and the Giants as my favorite team but nothing beyond it as a source of my enjoyment. As I said before...oh fucking well.
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In comment 12545624 RC02XX said:
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Both athletes and entertainers. Some are more into the entertaining aspect of the game.
And as for OBJ's dances, he actually does the dances that his friends make up to showcase their choreography. His dance from last season really exploded after he started doing it (even after others have been doing it for a little bit longer).
In simple words...Oh fucking well.
Regarding entertainment, suppose you went to a Rap concert and someone proceeded to sing opera. I would suspect that the entertainment we tune in for is a football game. Its not unreasonable for us to not consider these self promoting antics as the "entertainment" we are looking for
To each his own, right? I don't begrudge you or anyone else for not liking it. But at the same time, to say that it's what's wrong with today's NFL and players is also not right. It's something we all watch to get enjoyment out of in our own ways. I see the NFL as nothing more than entertainment and the Giants as my favorite team but nothing beyond it as a source of my enjoyment. As I said before...oh fucking well.
I hope you are not under the impression that I said anything that could be construed as "its what's wrong with today's NFL". I don't care for it, but that's simply personal opinion and taste. Mine is no better than anyone else's
Well, I'll go along with that. I understand that the world wasn't designed to please me. And yes, some do take it all too seriously.
common, but pretty dumb statement.
It's either to taunt your opponents or for a "look at me" moment. I think it has evolved into more of a "look at me" thing than in the past, which it was more to taunt your opponent.
I don't like them in general, but every once in the while I will get a kick out of one like when hedgecock rowed his way to Hawaii for the probowl.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
As for the taunting, tough shyte, stop the play if you don't want to be taunted.
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In comment 12545216 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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but I don't think fans are really able to grab the context of what it's like to compete and achieve at the highest levels like that. What's more of an adrenaline rush than to be among the best of the best at what you do and win your individual battles?
I actually think many people can relate because most people have experience some moments of achievement and complete exhilaration in their lifetime.
Regardless though what you are describing would explain spontaneous celebration not choreographed ones. I heard a recent interview (the name escapes me now) where one NFL player described how it became pressure for him to keep raising the bar higher and higher and used to practice in front of the mirror.
Different sort of thing, to me. Athletic competition is the only thing left that calls to one's primal nature. It's the reason fans go absolutely insane and get emotionally invested. It's got to be much more so when you're out there doing things with the athletic ability of a superhero. I think it changes your whole perception.
We apply a standard of 'professionalism' to sports figures that I think is misplaced because it's just not the same world.
If watching football is all that you can think of to do that calls to your primal nature, I suggest that you get outside more.
Go camping. Learn to ride a horse. Go bow hunting.
There are a multitude of things that aren't passive activities that will give you a much, much better outlet.
As far as the celebrations- They only bother me when they're on my lawn.
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How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
Duh, Barry is one of the good ones.
Definitely agree with this.
Although the branding aspect does turn me off, I can't really begrudge a player for trying to maximize their earning potential (making highlight reels with a celebration). And really, the guys that overdo it- well that pretty much gets sorted out in the wash especially when they don't perform...if that makes any sense.
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I think that many of us were annoyed by Shockey doing a back flip every time he caught a 10 yard pass. I sure was. Once in a while is awesome, and does add to the moment. Every time gets tedious. And it is more tedious if it's part of your "branding."
Definitely agree with this.
Although the branding aspect does turn me off, I can't really begrudge a player for trying to maximize their earning potential (making highlight reels with a celebration). And really, the guys that overdo it- well that pretty much gets sorted out in the wash especially when they don't perform...if that makes any sense.
Fair point.
Back to Shockey for a second: I always thought that he played a big role in the introduction of a penalty for spiking the ball during play. Seems like he'd spike it every freaking time he caught it.
Now on game winning TDs a celebration where all the players on the field congratulate the guy who scored is perfectly acceptable.
Did you see the SF guy trying to get the ref to throw a celebration (taunting) flag after Donnel's TD? LOL!
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How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I'm not sure that it's weak when number of posters have specifically indicated this being a new thing or generational thing in an attempt to call the current generation "look at me" generation, and really, knowing who many of the posters are (and their age groups), I would say that my question about the age is valid.
As far as the tongue-in-cheek question (that I didn't even finish) about white, you can take it as however you want. But once again, several posters talked about it being a cultural thing. Because some have stated that they liked quiet legends like Barry Sanders (who obviously is African American) doesn't negate the racial undertone of many of these threads. I specifically mentioned previous threads regarding how players dress to drive home this point. Or how about how many people called Richard Sherman a thug several years ago because he called out Crabtree after the NFC Championship game? Some of those posters are the same ones making comments regarding their disdain for the current topic. So you go on and believe whatever you want. The totality of the sentiments are not so subtle that it's only seen by a few people. But whatever, man. It's just my opinion and shit.
it's a game and fun entertainment not life or death. these guys are also young, full of testosterone and on top of the world so they enjoy celebrating when they make a big play.
it's a game and fun entertainment not life or death. these guys are also young, full of testosterone and on top of the world so they enjoy celebrating when they make a big play.
Best ever was the taser IMO. I miss Cofield.
Just hilarious.
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In comment 12545628 RC02XX said:
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How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I'm not sure that it's weak when number of posters have specifically indicated this being a new thing or generational thing in an attempt to call the current generation "look at me" generation, and really, knowing who many of the posters are (and their age groups), I would say that my question about the age is valid.
As far as the tongue-in-cheek question (that I didn't even finish) about white, you can take it as however you want. But once again, several posters talked about it being a cultural thing. Because some have stated that they liked quiet legends like Barry Sanders (who obviously is African American) doesn't negate the racial undertone of many of these threads. I specifically mentioned previous threads regarding how players dress to drive home this point. Or how about how many people called Richard Sherman a thug several years ago because he called out Crabtree after the NFC Championship game? Some of those posters are the same ones making comments regarding their disdain for the current topic. So you go on and believe whatever you want. The totality of the sentiments are not so subtle that it's only seen by a few people. But whatever, man. It's just my opinion and shit.
I'd put it like this: it can have racial undertones, no doubt. Agreed. But it's hard to make strong claims about it when for somebody like me, the most annoying Giant was definitely Shockey in this regard with the antics I've described above. OBJ's dance doesn't annoy me anywhere near as much. Any Hyno's was just dumb as fuck and too self-referential for my simple tastes.
The original question was do they appeal to us. That's all. My answer is usually "no" and not when they seem to have to do with a player's self-branding. Spontaneous joy, however, is always awesome and I love that. I'm not bemoaning the state of the league or anything like that.
And again, let's assume there is a generational divide. Why choose one generation as wrong or off on that basis? Pretty sure that's just ageism (no irony). You need to go further into it besides noting the divide to justify one side as being largely correct. That was my point.
As always, I'm just chatting with ya, man. No teeth in it on my side, and happy to see your side.
I do find it a bit strange when a player celebrates making a tackle seven yards downfield on 1st and 10 - that's not a good result! - but I wouldn't say it bothers me.
IMHO I would allow any celebration as long as:
(a) it doesn't result in a delay of game
(b) doesn't involve props other than the football (go ahead and use the football, they use a different ball for extra points anyway)
(c) doesn't include a violent gesture (no throat slashes)
and (d) is not specifically directed at an opposing player or coach or the opposing sideline (to encourage celebrations rather than taunting).
Some of it is pure excitement that they have to get out. It also ups their stock in popularity which helps with endorsements. OBJ has been getting more endorsements than I have ever seen from anyone after their rookie year (outside of a QB). Is his persona a part of that? Hard to say.
For the record, I'm a big fan of handing the ball off to the nearest official. The just doing my job attitude. Bavaro and Sanders approach.
The original question was do they appeal to us. That's all. My answer is usually "no" and not when they seem to have to do with a player's self-branding. Spontaneous joy, however, is always awesome and I love that. I'm not bemoaning the state of the league or anything like that.
And again, let's assume there is a generational divide. Why choose one generation as wrong or off on that basis? Pretty sure that's just ageism (no irony). You need to go further into it besides noting the divide to justify one side as being largely correct. That was my point.
As always, I'm just chatting with ya, man. No teeth in it on my side, and happy to see your side.
Eh...no one is saying the opinions of any specific age group is wrong, as long as it's based on personal preference (just like Rive Mike stated). However, when members of one group starts taking pot shot at the current generation for being "look at me" or juvenile because these players are from this generation or those, who enjoy these theatrics are of current generation, then it becomes wrong. That's been my point throughout my posts...people looking down on others because they don't agree or even understand the appeal of the showmanship. As I've stated earlier, oh fucking well.
This is something all people of all ages and races can agree on.
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oh fucking well.
This is something all people of all ages and races can agree on.
I still love ya, man...:)
It's true. His hair was wilting post hamstring tweak and it's just too top heavy at this point.
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Odell realizes he can get a haircut whenever he feels like it.
It's true. His hair was wilting post hamstring tweak and it's just too top heavy at this point.
But I read it somewhere that he was like Samson...the hair gives him the superpower that he has.
I liked Mark Bavaro flipping the ball to an official and kneeling or LT dumping the ball over his shoulder.
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In comment 12546909 RC02XX said:
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oh fucking well.
This is something all people of all ages and races can agree on.
I still love ya, man...:)
You too, buddy.
We can all agree that some celebrations are warranted and bad-ass.
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I agree completely with David in LA that there is definitely a generational/racial/cultural divide in attitudes to TD dances and similarities to the people who lament for the days of gentlemanly short shorts basketball
For example, I don't mind a guy jumping up and motioning for a first down. But, a whole dance for a routine catch, tackle, or sack? I don't think so.
I agree completely with David in LA that there is definitely a generational/racial/cultural divide in attitudes to TD dances and similarities to the people who lament for the days of gentlemanly short shorts basketball
OBJ has come out and stated on couple of occasions that he does the dances for his friends, who have either created them or are big fans of them. And while the whip was a hit, it didn't hurt it that OBJ (probably one of the highest profiled player in the NFL) started doing them as his dance. I'm sure that definitely up the popularity of it.
And let's not try to show how wise we are by ridiculing the current generation for its "look at me" and juvenile ways.
It's not coincidence that such dances were invented in the 80's, the height of cheesiness in American Culture.
Do they still penalize guys for dunking the football over the crossbar? I never understood that penalty. It seemed like a spur of the moment act no different than a spike.
Celebrations for routine plays are a bigger issue, IMO.
Do they still penalize guys for dunking the football over the crossbar? I never understood that penalty. It seemed like a spur of the moment act no different than a spike.
The problem there is guys were screwing with the goal post alignment.
Celebrations for routine plays are a bigger issue, IMO.
However, everything is not a racial or generational issue. I read some posters who seem inclined to twist a snowfall into a racial issue.
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In comment 12545628 RC02XX said:
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How many of the people who stated that they hate these dances so far are older than mid-30s? I bet the vast majority. And how many are w...never mind.
Ronnie, the age argument is weak. Can't someone just reply: well, how many people who are really into the celebrations are under 30? The implication is that they are immature and lacking in judgement and taste. It could cut either ways.
And the white thing? I agree. All of these unacknowledged racists praising the way Barry Sanders played the game. I, for one, am sick of it.
I'm not sure that it's weak when number of posters have specifically indicated this being a new thing or generational thing in an attempt to call the current generation "look at me" generation, and really, knowing who many of the posters are (and their age groups), I would say that my question about the age is valid.
As far as the tongue-in-cheek question (that I didn't even finish) about white, you can take it as however you want. But once again, several posters talked about it being a cultural thing. Because some have stated that they liked quiet legends like Barry Sanders (who obviously is African American) doesn't negate the racial undertone of many of these threads. I specifically mentioned previous threads regarding how players dress to drive home this point. Or how about how many people called Richard Sherman a thug several years ago because he called out Crabtree after the NFC Championship game? Some of those posters are the same ones making comments regarding their disdain for the current topic. So you go on and believe whatever you want. The totality of the sentiments are not so subtle that it's only seen by a few people. But whatever, man. It's just my opinion and shit.
I don't think liking Sanders' celebration but disliking the more exuberant celebrations and disliking the showboating culture is racist. Those same people probably disliked Shockey's antics. Critiquing Sherman for going after Crabtree also isn't racist. Even Sherman admitted he was a little over the line on that. It was a heat of the moment thing, though, so it's understandable.
And I say this as someone who likes Sherman (even though Revis, to me, is the better corner) and likes the pre-planned and choreographed celebrations if they are good/creative/funny I loved Ochocinco's stuff. (The NFL needs more of that,not less). I didn't like Joe Horn's celebration because it was against us, and I thought it was pretty dumb. I thought TO's sharpie was pretty funny. I prefer the group celebrations to the individual ones, though. I think they are funnier. I confess, I have no idea what Beckham is doing and it looks like a seizure to me.
As far as taunting goes, it seems to me that it happens routinely, but is only penalized once in a while. This is a brutal and emotional game where these people are basically sacrificing their long term health. I don't have a problem with them getting emotionally amped up about it.
The signaling first down after a routine catch is dumb, though. I think Frank Sanders of the Cardinals started that in the 90s. And as much as I loved Shockey, he was excessive, spiking the ball after every damn catch.
I did think Sanders' celebrations were cool, though because they were such a powerful statement. He was the best player in the NFL IMO for many years and was ranked waaaaaay too low on the NFL's top 100 of all time IMO, and nonchalantly tossing the ball to the ref and jogging back to the sidelines was genius. It was totally "zero fucks given" before that became a thing.
Agreed. It became routine.