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Andre Williams

Danny Kanell : 10/12/2015 9:38 pm
So, what's the BBI consensus on this player?

He's averaging 3 yards a carry on 40 carries. Last year he averaged 3.3 and that was as the feature back for 7 games.

RB is the one position you expect a contribution early in the career of a draft pick.

We used a mid level pick on him and I expected more, to be honest. He's still showing the lack of vision that he displayed last season. Just runs right into his blockers. I don't see any improvement, at all. I'm afraid what we see at this point is what he is. Maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong and he can be taught to be something he currently isn't - a power north - south back with the ability to recognize space when it's not exactly where the run is designed to go.

What's the thoughts of BBI?
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he should be relegated to goal line  
mattlawson : 10/13/2015 5:55 am : link
keep him fresh.
Ira  
DavidinBMNY : 10/13/2015 6:21 am : link
Why?

Darkwa is under contract for at least another year. They obviously like him and he is a good special teams player. He played every special teams snap and mph except had more snaps then Williams.

Giants will be drafting  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/13/2015 6:32 am : link
A RB next year. Jennings is getting up there. Vereen is set as theb3rd down spot back. Big need for a quicker guy. Should be a good one available in round 3
I've never seen a RB....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 10/13/2015 7:44 am : link
....run into a hole sideways as much as this guy does. It's bizarre.
He's no Delvin Joyce  
Dave in PA : 10/13/2015 8:26 am : link
But I suppose he'll do for limited duty
He's a guy who needs a heavy workload.He proved it last year and  
Victor in CT : 10/13/2015 8:31 am : link
was improving in pass pro and receiving. 2 carries a qtr won't allow a guy like that to be effective. 3 in a game is just wasting him.
A pile pusher  
WideRight : 10/13/2015 8:36 am : link
He will decrease the workload on Jennings, Vereen. Make them better.

He had an incredible college career that was never going to translate too well. The Giants overdrafted a guy from BC. Shocking. Having said that, he's done alright.
Judging a short yardage back on YPC?  
njm : 10/13/2015 8:36 am : link
A comparatively high number of his carries come on 3rd & 1 or 3rd & 2 situations. It's not surprising the number is relatively low.

He's a role player and is doing OK. Needs to improve his blocking and receiving if he wants a larger role.
He has limitations but there is a reason for a depth  
Jimmy Googs : 10/13/2015 8:37 am : link
Chart. And all RBs should be a little different than the rest.

Happy to keep him as 3rd or 4th back for years to come.
it's not out of the realm of possibility  
Enzo : 10/13/2015 8:40 am : link
that he simply sucks. He's got the physical tools but it seems like he has no idea how to find a hole.
It is sort of a catch-22..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/13/2015 8:42 am : link
when he's in there, the Giants are usually in a running formation, unlike when Jennings is in there and is often besides eli in the shotgun.

Yet, even with the defense keying on the run, Williams YPC isn't that much poorer than the other backs.
A few things I agree with here  
jcn56 : 10/13/2015 8:44 am : link
I do think he's limited, so his ceiling is lower than a lot of people expected. I don't think the blocking has been doing him (or any of the backs, for that matter) any favors. And the lack of carries hasn't helped his development, when he seems to remember to run straight up and keep his legs moving, he does well, but he has lapses there.

I do think he's got some value on the roster, but not sure he's ever going to amount to much more than we've seen, better run blocking or not.
For a bigger back, he seems to get tackled easy....  
penkap75 : 10/13/2015 8:53 am : link
I think its because he has a tendency to do a spin move or go sideways which takes away his power.

When he squares up his shoulders, he runs over fools, but more often then not he tries to do some fancy move he is not capable of at the NFL level and usually gets blasted.
Jennings and Vereen need to be taking the majority of the snaps  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 8:55 am : link
Enough trying to get Andre a series or two in the midst of the game, Jennings is simply better.
RE: A pile pusher  
Victor in CT : 10/13/2015 9:01 am : link
In comment 12546379 WideRight said:
Quote:
He will decrease the workload on Jennings, Vereen. Make them better.

He had an incredible college career that was never going to translate too well. The Giants overdrafted a guy from BC. Shocking. Having said that, he's done alright.


Really, a 4th round pick for a guy who lead the nation in rushing as a senior and led his team in rushing as a rookie, 7 TDS, a long run of 50 and a few others of 25 or more is a reach? I'll bet Reese wishes had a lot more "reaches" like this in the 4th round. You guys with your idiotic favoritism rants are getting more ridiculous by the day.
He seems like a somewhat poor fit for this offense, even if things  
Devon : 10/13/2015 9:01 am : link
were to go more right for him than they have so far.

I'm remembering the timeline right, they had long hired McAdoo when they drafted him too.

You know....  
Britt in VA : 10/13/2015 9:03 am : link
Our last couple of great RB's were drafted in the 4th and 7th rounds, respectively, and only saw spot duty for awhile.

They turned out pretty well.
He isn't evasive and needs really good LOS blocking to be successful  
BeerFridge : 10/13/2015 9:03 am : link
he's the third best guy we have and that's not too bad, really.
Look at the way the NFL trend..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/13/2015 9:20 am : link
is for RB's lately. You have situational and rotational committees on a lot of teams. That's the purpose Williams serves right now. He's an adequate goal line back and he can give Jennings a breather for a series or two.

Even if he isn't better than Jennings, keeping him fresh and reducing the liklihood of a nagging injury has a lot of value to this team. If Jennings goes down, that puts a limit on the offense.
Gess he looked good  
TMS : 10/13/2015 9:25 am : link
at that spot in the draft with his collegiate record. But it appears he cannot adjust to being anything more than a straight ahead battering ram who does not catch the ball well. Guy works hard and that means lot, so maybe he develops yet.
RB by committee.....  
Doomster : 10/13/2015 9:34 am : link
That's the thing. Where do you see the improvement? Maybe I'm missing it. I saw him miss holes vs Wash and Buf and the numbers are worse than his rookie year.


Were they really holes, or were they cracks?

I agree, he has been used mainly as the short yardage back, which does not bode well for ypc......

This OL, can open up a hole here and there, especially when the defense thinks we are going to pass.....but it CANNOT run, when it needs to run....and too many drives are stopped, because we must have balance....

Been a long time since we had a good every down back, that could stay on the field......

Vereen has been a good addition to this offense.....Amazing how Belichick replaces him, with a guy that may even be better, at 1/4 the price....
Why do people try and perpetuate this mantra?  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/13/2015 9:38 am : link
Quote:
nd too many drives are stopped, because we must have balance....


If we MUST have balance then why the fuck is Eli throwing the ball 54 times?
RE: Why do people try and perpetuate this mantra?  
Peter in Atl : 10/13/2015 9:51 am : link
In comment 12546486 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


nd too many drives are stopped, because we must have balance....



If we MUST have balance then why the fuck is Eli throwing the ball 54 times?


You just have to accept there are stupid people in this world.
RE: Giants will be drafting  
Simms11 : 10/13/2015 10:05 am : link
In comment 12546294 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
A RB next year. Jennings is getting up there. Vereen is set as theb3rd down spot back. Big need for a quicker guy. Should be a good one available in round 3


Totally agree. We need that bell cow RB. Someone that can reliably get 4 yards a carry and break off a few big ones in the process. I thought Williams would be that guy, however he hasn't shown a lot of that lately. Jennings is also getting older and would probably be an acceptable back up and vet presence.
RE: Why do people try and perpetuate this mantra?  
Britt in VA : 10/13/2015 10:08 am : link
In comment 12546486 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


nd too many drives are stopped, because we must have balance....



If we MUST have balance then why the fuck is Eli throwing the ball 54 times?


crickets
RE: For a bigger back, he seems to get tackled easy....  
BlueLou : 10/13/2015 10:10 am : link
In comment 12546418 penkap75 said:
Quote:
I think its because he has a tendency to do a spin move or go sideways which takes away his power.

When he squares up his shoulders, he runs over fools, but more often then not he tries to do some fancy move he is not capable of at the NFL level and usually gets blasted.


U really seeing that THIS YEAR? Or recalling from last year? I've watched every min of every game this year, and though there's s lot less evidence this far, I'd swear the spinning, dancing sideways etc is much less this year so far.
i personally think  
area junc : 10/13/2015 10:11 am : link
he stinks, but he is also a nightmare fit in a west coast offense. not sure why reese drafted him given the offense we were using
If the Giants want to run more, they need to give him more carries  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/13/2015 10:19 am : link
Jennings has a history of missing time after heavy workloads. If the Giants want to have Jennings throughout the season, Williams needs to carry the ball about 1/3 of the time, IMO.

But who knows, maybe Williams looks bad in practice and the coaches have no faith in him, except for goal line? I hope that's not the case.
Brandon Jacobs didn't crack 55 yards until his 36th pro game.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/13/2015 10:21 am : link
Tiki Barber was Rashad Jennings and Shane Vereen rolled into one. Jacobs, who was drafted a bit higher than Williams, scored a bunch of TDs those first two years, capping drives where Tiki was the featured back; but he didn't get to be the man until year three. Jacobs also had a couple of untimely fumbles and short-yardage misfires.

Although Williams hasn't done anything great, I don't think he has been a particular problem. He's a durable back who secures the ball. Also seems to be a good teammate, which is important when a huge college star has to play a supporting role. As the run blocking improves, his numbers will too. And considering that neither Jennings nor Vereen has ever sniffed 200 carries, we might be glad to have Williams at some point.
The problem is that he's a putrid receiving threat and not (yet) more  
Devon : 10/13/2015 10:29 am : link
than a mediocre blocker.

With this offense, with the focus on getting the ball out quickly and checking down more often, with the problems at TE and WR, they can't really afford to give significant snaps to a RB with questionable vision that is zero threat in any capacity in the passing game.

I loathe to agree with Thomas, but it really doesn't make a ton of sense why they drafted him.
Jacobs is an interesting comparison  
djm : 10/13/2015 10:45 am : link
Jacobs averaged under 3 YPC his rookie year mostly working in short yardage. More importantly, Jacobs did run for 19 first downs and 7 TDs his rookie year. Jacobs then averaged 4.4 in year 2 and finished with 33 first downs and 9 TDs.

Williams averaged 3.3 YPC his rookie year. Williams obviously received more carries his rookie season but he finished with 30 first downs and 7 TDs. Hard to compare especially since Jacobs obviously played behind a better OL that rookie season. This year is a better comparison but it's early--after 5 games, pretty much in a short yardage role Williams is averaging 3 YPC and has 5 first downs and the one TD. So he's on pace for between 15-20 first downs and we will say 4 Tds or so.

Hopefully Williams improves as this season progresses. Like others have said he's far from a bad player and a decent value pick in round 4 but it would be nice to see some improvements as the OL improves. I think the OL has been fine thus far but it too can get better.
He's depth and a short yardage guy at this point  
Stu11 : 10/13/2015 10:47 am : link
you know Jennings isn't playing 16 games. When we need him he'll be there. His future is a little tenuous depending on future drafts/moves. Who knows some point down the road he may develop into something more especially when our run blocking improves. He's a not a great fit for this offensive system which really emphasizes the pass and especially quick ones due to his lack of pass catching ability.
Area Junc: You might overstate his ill-suitedness to the offense.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/13/2015 10:48 am : link
area junc said:
Quote:
I think he stinks, but he is also a nightmare fit in a west coast offense. Not sure why Reese drafted him given the offense we were using

Every draft pick involves a certain amount of projection. To cite one WCO icon: how many receptions did Roger Craig have at Nebraska? (I peeked: his career totals were 16/102/0). Bill Walsh saw the potential, and the rest is history.

Reese drafted David Wilson figuring he could learn to block well enough. He drafted Williams figuring he could learn to catch well enough not be a serious liability. Williams seems to be progressing in that direction. Meanwhile, Reese has signed Jennings and Vereen - rendering AW's hands relatively unimportant.
RE: he's barely being used  
barens : 10/13/2015 11:04 am : link
In comment 12545875 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
now that they're getting more comfortable with Vereen.

I could be wrong but it seems like most of William's carries are in short yardage.


The thing is, I like Jennings better in short yardage situations. Too me, he looks much more adept at getting that extra yard or two when needed. Williams can be explosive at times, but for such a big, rugged runner, I don't trust him as much as Jennings when it gets down to it.
RE: RE: he's barely being used  
Enzo : 10/13/2015 11:06 am : link
In comment 12546678 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 12545875 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


now that they're getting more comfortable with Vereen.

I could be wrong but it seems like most of William's carries are in short yardage.



The thing is, I like Jennings better in short yardage situations. Too me, he looks much more adept at getting that extra yard or two when needed. Williams can be explosive at times, but for such a big, rugged runner, I don't trust him as much as Jennings when it gets down to it.

agree. Jennings seemingly has the knack for falling forward while absorbing contact.
If we had a better OL  
old man : 10/13/2015 11:36 am : link
he would be used more often.
TC mentioned, as in the 4 previous games, the (lack of a) running game. Right now SV is part RB/part slot receiver, and RJ is the RB. TC likes the ground game and prefers to have a ball control game. If we had a good 2 way OL, Williams could be used knowing a) he could get yds, and b) with a good run game Ds play in and AW becomes a good decay to more space for the pass.
If we had a good RT, that'd help a lot.
Tiki was arguably better than Jacobs in short yardage too.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/13/2015 11:42 am : link
When your smallish #1 back is pushing 25 touches per game, it's nice to have a bruiser to absorb the punishment on third and inches, even if occasionally misreads the hole and runs into a wall, or tiptoes into the line and gets tripped (a common problem for Jacobs). While Jennings is bigger than Tiki, he's far less durable. If Williams never does anything more than get some tough yards, protect the ball and preserve Jennings/Vereen, he's playing a valuable role. I personally think his ceiling is higher than that - and it should be, considering his draft status. I just think he can be a contributor without putting up impressive numbers.
He's no  
Headhunter : 10/13/2015 11:43 am : link
Dion Lewis or Duke Johnson
assuming good health for the other backs  
santacruzom : 10/13/2015 12:12 pm : link
I think the Giants should continue to use Williams as he was last game... 3-5 carries, maybe a few more if one of the other backs loses his helmet on the sideline.
aside from totally debilitating fatigue  
santacruzom : 10/13/2015 12:14 pm : link
I can't think of a reason why the Giants should insert Williams into the huddle at the expense of Vereen. Vereen just provides so many more options, and presents the defense with much more of a headache.
RE: For a bigger back, he seems to get tackled easy....  
BlueLou : 10/13/2015 12:20 pm : link
In comment 12546418 penkap75 said:
Quote:
I think its because he has a tendency to do a spin move or go sideways which takes away his power.

When he squares up his shoulders, he runs over fools, but more often then not he tries to do some fancy move he is not capable of at the NFL level and usually gets blasted.


U really seeing that THIS YEAR? Or recalling from last year? I've watched every min of every game this year, and though there's s lot less evidence this far, I'd swear the spinning, dancing sideways etc is much less this year so far.
other than Vereen.....  
BillKo : 10/13/2015 1:54 pm : link
I don't think the running back that will starting when this team is REALLY ready to contend is on the team........
I don't think he's anything special  
Greg from LI : 10/13/2015 1:58 pm : link
But a guy like him, who doesn't have any moves, really will struggle behind a weak OL. He needs an initial hole to build up a bit of momentum. If he can get out into some space, he's shown he can run over people.

As someone else noted, his YPC isn't much worse than Jennings or Vereen despite the fact that he gets all the short-yardage carries where no one's getting more than a couple of yards.
It's still really early in his pro career  
JonC : 10/13/2015 2:02 pm : link
The running game isn't doing a ton on the whole, and Eli's needed Vereen's skills and versatility to offset the loss of Cruz, and the mediocrity at TE.

Andre looked better in the preseason, but I think he's pressing a bit now and reverting to his old habits. Perhaps because he's getting fewer reps, or he's still working to get used to NFL game speed.

By all accounts, he's a very hard, diligent worker. It will pay off, hang in there with him.

i like his motor  
Les in TO : 10/13/2015 2:02 pm : link
and desire to run people over...that said, I really like how Jennings has played this year...he has been finishing runs very well and making the extra effort to get first downs. I would rather see more Jennings and vereen and more of Williams only later in the game.
Williams is a traditional "volume carrier"  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/13/2015 2:04 pm : link
in that to expect him to get 10 carries for 60 yards is not his thing. It never really has been going back to his college days.

He needs the ball about 20 times in a game. He will get 3 or 4 here and there, but then he breaks a 20+ yard run to boost the numbers.

The offense the Giants run it appears isn't conducive to a player like him. He isn't a dual-threat player. Then, when you add in his lack of ability as a receiver, the defense can play the percentages of what is going to happen the moment he steps on the field.
AW not getting snaps  
David in LA : 10/13/2015 2:07 pm : link
was just a byproduct of what we're missing on offense. He'd look much more dangerous with safeties having to play back to account for ODB and Cruz..
I do agree with you DK about him being somewhat disappointing  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/13/2015 2:13 pm : link
but I'm trying to keep in mind that he's most often being brought in on goal line or 3rd & Short situations. The defense is stacking up on the line of scrimmage and he's only trying to get a yard or two in many situations.
He's OK  
PEEJ : 10/13/2015 2:17 pm : link
but he's got a low ceiling. I don't see him ever becoming a dominant player.
RE: Tiki was arguably better than Jacobs in short yardage too.  
BillKo : 10/13/2015 2:25 pm : link
In comment 12546789 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
When your smallish #1 back is pushing 25 touches per game, it's nice to have a bruiser to absorb the punishment on third and inches, even if occasionally misreads the hole and runs into a wall, or tiptoes into the line and gets tripped (a common problem for Jacobs). While Jennings is bigger than Tiki, he's far less durable. If Williams never does anything more than get some tough yards, protect the ball and preserve Jennings/Vereen, he's playing a valuable role. I personally think his ceiling is higher than that - and it should be, considering his draft status. I just think he can be a contributor without putting up impressive numbers.


BBB - not sure about your Tiki comment...but there are stats that could prove that either way.

I will say that Tiki's effectiveness really declined once the Giants got in the redzone. It was absolutely terrfic between the 20s.
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