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NFT: Dodgers at Mets: Game 4

Canton : 10/13/2015 2:41 pm
@Mets: NLDS Game 4 Lineup:

@cgrand3 RF
#DavidWright 3B
Murphy 2B
@ynscspds LF
d�Arnaud C
Duda 1B
Flores SS
@juanlagares2 CF
@Smatz88 P

#LGM



Let's close this out tonight at home! How special would that be..
Duda against Kershaw?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/13/2015 2:43 pm : link
Why would you pick now to do that? Hasn't Duda always sat for Kershaw?
Duda was in the lineup game 1  
Chris684 : 10/13/2015 2:46 pm : link
...
And got a hit and a walk  
moespree : 10/13/2015 2:49 pm : link
.
Duda has his struggles  
Mike in NY : 10/13/2015 2:56 pm : link
But he is better than Cuddyer defensively and playing Cuddyer would leave Plawecki as the only right handed bat off the bench. Also the line-up did produce 13 runs last night so Terry Collins might want to see if they can produce enough tonight to clinch.
Collins has long said  
ZGiants98 : 10/13/2015 2:59 pm : link
Murphy, Duda, and Granderson would play against lefties in the playoffs. So far its worked like a charm.
RE: Collins has long said  
Rory : 10/13/2015 3:01 pm : link
In comment 12547278 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Murphy, Duda, and Granderson would play against lefties in the playoffs. So far its worked like a charm.


This ^
This is the third year in a row Kershaw is pitching on short rest  
sjnyfan : 10/13/2015 3:15 pm : link
In 2013 he threw 124 pitches in Game 1 but was pulled after 6 IP and 91 pitches in a clinching win in game 4 against the Braves.

In 2014 however, he became only the 4th pitcher since 2000 to throw 100+ pitches in two starts on three days rest. His last pitch was a 3 run HR that put the Cardinals ahead on a 3-2 series clinching win.

Longwinded way in stating the obvious: we need to get Kershaw's pitch count up. He was gassed towards the end of Game 1. I wonder how much he has left.

The key with Matz will be the first few innings. He'll be jacked with adrenaline. Gotta keep him calm and hopefully keep his pitch count down.
I dont have the numbers in front of me  
Headhunter : 10/13/2015 3:20 pm : link
but I think I read lefties do better than righties against Kershaw with the reason being he wont throw his Curve Ball to lefties making him a 2 pitch pitcher against them
Enemy Lineup this evening  
MetsAreBack : 10/13/2015 3:21 pm : link
Hernandez CF
Kendrick 2B
Gonzalez 1B
Turner 3B
Seager SS
Puig RF
Ellis C
Ruggiano LF
Kershaw P


...man they seem to have a lot of platoon hitters in that lineup. AG, Kendrick and Turner seemingly their only everyday players.
Duda will do just fine  
stillpoe : 10/13/2015 3:21 pm : link
He fared well against Kershaw in Game 1 and would actually be the kind of hitter that would help us against him tonight. He's pitching on short rest and Duda will work the count, so his patience will help get Kershaw out of the game sooner.
Dodgers rolling with a tough lineup  
gmen9892 : 10/13/2015 3:21 pm : link
Hernandez CF
Kendrick 2B
Gonzalez 1B
Turner 3B
Seager SS
Puig RF
Ellis C
Ruggiano LF
Kershaw P


Hoping Matz can get past the early nerves and handle these tough righties.
Only thing that worries me about Matz  
moespree : 10/13/2015 3:25 pm : link
Is pitch count. I definitely don't see the moment as being too big for him, so I'm not concerned about that. But I am concerned about 100 pitches in the 5th inning. That's something that could definitely happen.
Moespree if that happens  
Chris684 : 10/13/2015 3:27 pm : link
I put Bart out there for another couple of innings. I trust him more than any bullpen option outside of Familia.
If Matz is on  
Headhunter : 10/13/2015 3:28 pm : link
he is not afraid to pitch to contact. I followed games in the minors when he went 8 innings and threw 81 pitches a few times
I want to see Robles on the mound  
spike : 10/13/2015 3:28 pm : link
should the bullpen use is necessaryy
Clippard  
ryanmkeane : 10/13/2015 3:31 pm : link
should be ready to roll, I think he'll be out there in a big spot tonight.
Well lets say we have a lead after 5 and Matz is >100 pitches  
MetsAreBack : 10/13/2015 3:33 pm : link
is degrom ready to go? He'd be a nice 3 inning bridge to Familia - especially considering the Dodgers righty heavy lineup tonight (which they'd have to go through their entire bench if we did that)

I like our odds better tonight to close this out than to go to LA and try to beat Greinke. And Thor would be on normal rest Thursday too.

A lot of what ifs here though -- hopefully Matz steps up and pitches efficiently.
Wilmer Flores is going to  
Chris684 : 10/13/2015 3:44 pm : link
have another BIG moment tonight.

I'm going on record now.
If they're unwilling to play Conforto v lefties...  
Torrag : 10/13/2015 5:13 pm : link
which imo is stupid, this is the best lineup we can muster.
RE: If they're unwilling to play Conforto v lefties...  
gmen9892 : 10/13/2015 5:15 pm : link
In comment 12547735 Torrag said:
Quote:
which imo is stupid, this is the best lineup we can muster.


If they werent going to put him in against Brett Anderson last night, there was 0 chance that they were gonna put him in there tonight. I agree that I think he can hit lefties and its dumb to have him out, but at this point, it is what it is for the rest of the year. Especially tonight though against Kershaw, that is not the spot you want him to be hitting against his first lefty starter in the majors.
Yeah, with Conforto its a bit frustrating  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 5:32 pm : link
All we've seen him do is show up in big moments and he definitely knows how to work an at-bat. I mean, he's a young rookie...so he's entitled to nothing...but leaving him on the bench seems a bit shortsighted. Plus - he was kinda really good. Eh, can't win them all. At least Cuddyer was relegated to the bench after that embarrassment in Game 1.
Duda can look horrible for 30 pitches  
madgiantscow009 : 10/13/2015 6:22 pm : link
but with his power, it only takes one.
hoping matz can get through 6 with 2 runs or less  
CGiants07 : 10/13/2015 6:28 pm : link
and we can scrape a couple runs off kershaw by working his pitch count and executing
RE: Duda has his struggles  
SJGiant : 10/13/2015 6:29 pm : link
In comment 12547270 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
But he is better than Cuddyer defensively and playing Cuddyer would leave Plawecki as the only right handed bat off the bench. Also the line-up did produce 13 runs last night so Terry Collins might want to see if they can produce enough tonight to clinch.



Matt Reynolds is a right handed batter
RE: Yeah, with Conforto its a bit frustrating  
Rory : 10/13/2015 7:10 pm : link
In comment 12547773 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
All we've seen him do is show up in big moments and he definitely knows how to work an at-bat. I mean, he's a young rookie...so he's entitled to nothing...but leaving him on the bench seems a bit shortsighted. Plus - he was kinda really good. Eh, can't win them all. At least Cuddyer was relegated to the bench after that embarrassment in Game 1.


Terry values defense over offense. Lagares was inches away from stealing a HR from A-Gonzalez last night . He also seems to have become somewhat a better contact hitter. Which could result in more pitches for Kershaw.

Let's go Matz !!

Cubs about to  
Rory : 10/13/2015 7:54 pm : link
Beat cards.

NLCS in Queens ???
Good luck to us all tonight.  
glowrider : 10/13/2015 8:01 pm : link
Don't be pussies. Keep it strong in here.

Let's kick these fuckers out of our house, humble their arrogance, and look forward to the next series.

Let's end Chase Utley's season.
boom  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 8:09 pm : link
.
Get  
Rory : 10/13/2015 8:13 pm : link
Nasty mets fans !

Ya gotta believe !!
He needed that for his confidence  
Canton : 10/13/2015 8:13 pm : link
He deserves a storybook win.
Nice start for Matz.  
Ira : 10/13/2015 8:13 pm : link
Now let's see what we can do against Kershaw.
RE: Only thing that worries me about Matz  
Canton : 10/13/2015 8:14 pm : link
In comment 12547339 moespree said:
Quote:
Is pitch count. I definitely don't see the moment as being too big for him, so I'm not concerned about that. But I am concerned about 100 pitches in the 5th inning. That's something that could definitely happen.


Or maybe won't..
going to be a great LHP matchup  
RasputinPrime : 10/13/2015 8:18 pm : link
will Kershaw reverse the playoff curse or will the kid best him. Should be good.
18 pitches for Kershaw  
sjnyfan : 10/13/2015 8:23 pm : link
in the first
Duda Ks again  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 8:42 pm : link
8 so far in this series
RE: Clippard  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 8:44 pm : link
In comment 12547364 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
should be ready to roll, I think he'll be out there in a big spot tonight.


Lets hope we're not in that position, i dont trust him for shit
Matz just Kershaw'd Kershaw  
Eric on Li : 10/13/2015 8:46 pm : link
He is quite an impressive player.
Jesus christ man  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 8:53 pm : link
what a cheap fucking run
Fucking justin turner again  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 8:55 pm : link
GODDAMNIT. And wtf is cespedes doin in LF
Blame TDA  
Rflairr : 10/13/2015 8:55 pm : link
Getting cute with Kershaw. Why are you having him throw curves to the pitcher when he has a 95 mph fastball
This all started because matz couldn't put kershaw away  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 8:56 pm : link
FUCK
Well that sucked  
Eric on Li : 10/13/2015 8:57 pm : link
all on 2 out hits. Time for the bats to go to work, can't let Kershaw get on a roll. Need to answer like last night, even if they can only scratch out 1 run.
When in the hell did Justin Turner become Manny Ramirez at the plate??  
nyjuggernaut2 : 10/13/2015 8:57 pm : link
Such BS that we can't get this scrub out this series.
RE: When in the hell did Justin Turner become Manny Ramirez at the plate??  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 8:59 pm : link
In comment 12548066 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
Such BS that we can't get this scrub out this series.


It's fucking maddening
We've done this before  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:00 pm : link
keep working the counts, get him out of the game.

We can still do this.
We can't even get a hit off him this time around  
Canton : 10/13/2015 9:03 pm : link
I hope we can get to him
I actually think he was sharper in game 1 than today  
moespree : 10/13/2015 9:04 pm : link
And yet so far is getting a better result.
RE: We can't even get a hit off him this time around  
Rory : 10/13/2015 9:04 pm : link
In comment 12548079 Canton said:
Quote:
I hope we can get to him


It's early yet , have faith
Matz cannot give up any more runs  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 9:07 pm : link
.
heart of the order  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:09 pm : link
time to chip away
Except for the 2 run single  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 9:14 pm : link
Wright has been terrible
my man murph  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:15 pm : link
!!!
MURPH!!!  
sjnyfan : 10/13/2015 9:15 pm : link
.
Thata boy murph  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 9:15 pm : link
.
Mattingly is a weird dude  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 9:17 pm : link
.
Good news bad news  
moespree : 10/13/2015 9:31 pm : link
Bad news is Kershaw's pitch count is in his favor. Good news it's 3 days rest so I don't think you're likely to see him past 100. If he keeps his current rate that's probably 7. If they can get him up they might get him out by 6. Have to start trying to work the counts better than they have this game.
And duda Ks again  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 9:34 pm : link
9 and counting
Duda looks  
Rory : 10/13/2015 9:34 pm : link
Lost out there
RE: Duda looks  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 9:36 pm : link
In comment 12548160 Rory said:
Quote:
Lost out there


Throw Flores in there too.
be clutch cuddyer  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:36 pm : link
and game 1 will be forgiven
Cuddy  
stillpoe : 10/13/2015 9:38 pm : link
if you hit a HR here, you would be worth the first round pick we lost and love you forever.

thanks.
No Idea  
GruningsOnTheHill : 10/13/2015 9:39 pm : link
I had no idea that Cuddles is on the Mets...
I hope  
SJGiant : 10/13/2015 9:40 pm : link
DeGrom doesn't pitch this game
I think I could have done a better job on that AB  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:40 pm : link
JFC.
why not save  
madgiantscow009 : 10/13/2015 9:40 pm : link
DeGromm for tomorrow?
Cannot get anything going offensively  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 9:40 pm : link
.
Cuddyer is  
Canton : 10/13/2015 9:40 pm : link
well Cuddyer.

and Kershaw is cruising.
RE: why not save  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 9:41 pm : link
In comment 12548178 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
DeGromm for tomorrow?


There no game tomorrow
Who pitches tomorrow if not DeGrom?  
Canton : 10/13/2015 9:41 pm : link
.
Well I think deGrom is coming in  
moespree : 10/13/2015 9:41 pm : link
Matz is out and I didn't see anyone else warming up. Interesting decision.
Noah pitches game 5 on full rest this would mean  
moespree : 10/13/2015 9:42 pm : link
.
That's right  
Canton : 10/13/2015 9:42 pm : link
So we see Thor again.
I'd have gone with Tolo  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:42 pm : link
I hope this works
Well never mind  
moespree : 10/13/2015 9:42 pm : link
I didn't see Colon warming up. I guess he was obviously.
ahh it is tolo  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:43 pm : link
.
Tolo  
Canton : 10/13/2015 9:43 pm : link
keep it at 3!
I guess deGrom  
RodneyHamp : 10/13/2015 9:44 pm : link
was there in case we tied it up or took the lead. If it goes 5 we have deGrom start with Thor at the ready the pen.
Didn't he pitch multiple innings yesterday?  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 9:45 pm : link
How's he able to do this?
Facing Kershaw and Greinke (potentially) twice each  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 9:45 pm : link
in a 5 game series is just unfair, lol. I really want to shut this down tonight.

Come on boys, give it to the fans!!!
RE: Didn't he pitch multiple innings yesterday?  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:46 pm : link
In comment 12548200 schabadoo said:
Quote:
How's he able to do this?


Because he's Bartolo and he's a fucking BOSS.
seriously  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:49 pm : link
he's the fucking man
colon could have  
madgiantscow009 : 10/13/2015 9:49 pm : link
started, perhaps. He's been on fire.
RE: RE: Didn't he pitch multiple innings yesterday?  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 9:50 pm : link
In comment 12548204 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
In comment 12548200 schabadoo said:


Quote:


How's he able to do this?



Because he's Bartolo and he's a fucking BOSS.


They just said it's his first time pitching on consecutive days. Seems an odd time to try it, but it doesn't seem like a big deal.
Kershaw  
Canton : 10/13/2015 9:55 pm : link
has to break down sooner or later..

Right?

We only have 3 more innings left, to do something .

Kershaw is answering all his critics.

two hittable balls there DW  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:56 pm : link
come on man
Kershaw is  
RodneyHamp : 10/13/2015 9:56 pm : link
rolling.
fuck not good guys  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 9:57 pm : link
.
Does Kershaw try to  
section125 : 10/13/2015 9:58 pm : link
quick pitch everybody?
86 pitches  
moespree : 10/13/2015 9:59 pm : link
Will be interesting to see what Mattingly does. Does he push him 8 on 3 days rest?
He'll probably be at 95-100 after 7  
moespree : 10/13/2015 9:59 pm : link
If it's another quick inning.
Mattingly already said  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:01 pm : link
he's treating it as a normal start for Kershaw.

he's getting stronger as the game goes on. he could go the distance.
Kershaw may go 9 tonight  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:02 pm : link
.
This is Kershaws game  
PA Giant Fan : 10/13/2015 10:03 pm : link
Unless he runs into trouble.
David Wright is just killing us.  
Chris L. : 10/13/2015 10:04 pm : link
Can't get the ball out of the infield
OK  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:05 pm : link
Chip away at this fucker lets go
I think Hernandez  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:06 pm : link
could have ran over Murphy there legally. not sure why he stopped.

or I just don't know the rule.
RE: David Wright is just killing us.  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 10:06 pm : link
In comment 12548254 Chris L. said:
Quote:
Can't get the ball out of the infield


As is "Captain Streaky" Lucas Duda.
THIS  
sjnyfan : 10/13/2015 10:06 pm : link
is the inning. Let's go!
I don't get why deGrom  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:08 pm : link
is warming.

why not save deGrom for game 5.

I like Thor, but man deGrom was dominant last start and i'm more confident he can match greinke.

I'm not saying give up in this game, the Mets can pull it out, but I try to do it without deGrom.

it's not like they have a lead.
A linedrive on the scorecard  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 10:12 pm : link
.
We need some magic Lucas!  
Canton : 10/13/2015 10:13 pm : link
86 Style!
can we work a fucking count for fuck's sake??  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:13 pm : link
??
BUNT!!!  
RodneyHamp : 10/13/2015 10:13 pm : link
Dammit.
Thanks Duda. You can go back to disappearing again.  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 10:14 pm : link
How about some Wilmer magic!!
Flores?  
Canton : 10/13/2015 10:14 pm : link
.
Now would be a nice time Flores  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 10:15 pm : link
.
godfuckingdammit  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:16 pm : link
.
Fucking Justine Turner  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 10:16 pm : link
I hate that chick.
Turner  
Canton : 10/13/2015 10:16 pm : link
Met killer
Fuck you turner.  
RodneyHamp : 10/13/2015 10:16 pm : link
.
this could be the booze  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:17 pm : link
talking, but I don't think so, I think I'm just bitter.

I said before I wouldn't advocate a pitcher throwing at someone's head.

I'd actually be cool with any Mets pitcher hitting Justin Turner in the face.

it's irrational of me, but the way he looks pisses me off and he seems like a douche.
He hit the ball hard  
MetsAreBack : 10/13/2015 10:17 pm : link
But I don't understand why Wilmer didn't take a 2-0 pitch. Kershaw can you probably pitch the 8th now
RE: David Wright is just killing us.  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:17 pm : link
In comment 12548254 Chris L. said:
Quote:
Can't get the ball out of the infield


He's been awful
Gonna suck we can't do this at home  
Canton : 10/13/2015 10:21 pm : link
.
well that's a nice catch  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:23 pm : link
.
RE: Gonna suck we can't do this at home  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:23 pm : link
In comment 12548322 Canton said:
Quote:
.


this isn't over yet. it's a 2 run game.
RE: RE: David Wright is just killing us.  
spike : 10/13/2015 10:23 pm : link
In comment 12548314 Giants4246 said:
Quote:
In comment 12548254 Chris L. said:


Quote:


Can't get the ball out of the infield



He's been awful

Great grab DW

Lets go Bats!
One bad inning has killed this game for us  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 10:23 pm : link
Please let's get something going. Find your pitch and drive it! COME ON.
Let's GO  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:24 pm : link
.
surprised they  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:26 pm : link
lifted Kershaw
I think this is a terrible decision by mattingly  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:26 pm : link
go KID
Yes Kershaw out!  
nyjuggernaut2 : 10/13/2015 10:26 pm : link
Let's go now!!
That's why I asked before  
moespree : 10/13/2015 10:26 pm : link
I figured Mattingly would do something insane and stupid.
If nothing changes, does this game come down to throwing Kershaw  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 10:28 pm : link
a curveball?
RE: If nothing changes, does this game come down to throwing Kershaw  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:29 pm : link
In comment 12548348 schabadoo said:
Quote:
a curveball?


Sure looks that way so far
time to redeem yourself Cap  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:32 pm : link
.
Win it  
spike : 10/13/2015 10:32 pm : link
For RuBen!!!
Come on DW  
RodneyHamp : 10/13/2015 10:32 pm : link
Come up big!!
It' seems to be working out for Mattingly  
Drewcon40 : 10/13/2015 10:32 pm : link
splendidly
COME ON WRIGHT  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:32 pm : link
FUCKING DO SOMETHING
Besides for the one hit  
JayBinQueens : 10/13/2015 10:34 pm : link
Against Baez (which was huge) wright has done nothing offensively. Not even run out grounders hard. Extra base bit here makes up for that


Let's goooooooooo!!!!
Great at bat  
JayBinQueens : 10/13/2015 10:39 pm : link
Come on murphhhhh
Why didn't they challenge that?  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 10:40 pm : link
.
Murph man time...  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:40 pm : link
..
I think we got away with one there  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:41 pm : link
.
RE: I think this is a terrible decision by mattingly  
Canton : 10/13/2015 10:43 pm : link
In comment 12548338 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
go KID


Gave them a scare, but as it turns out, not so terrible, after all.

This was our chance... Fuck!

This is destined for a game 5.
DAMMIT  
RodneyHamp : 10/13/2015 10:44 pm : link
.
Everyone on this team swings for the fences...  
EricJ : 10/13/2015 10:44 pm : link
a couple of line drives would have tied the game already.
fdshfgrdg  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:44 pm : link
dfghgfd
Murphy wanted the lead with that swing.  
Canton : 10/13/2015 10:45 pm : link
.
Feel like Murphy and conforto had good swings  
MetsAreBack : 10/13/2015 10:45 pm : link
Just missed by fractions of an inch of nice gappers. Damnit
He just missed it  
PA Giant Fan : 10/13/2015 10:46 pm : link
Murph with a beautiful swing. Pay that man
Shoulda drove that pitch up the middle  
nyjuggernaut2 : 10/13/2015 10:47 pm : link
instead of trying to blast it over the fence. Looks like DeGrom/Grienke game 5 is on the horizon...damnit!
the Mets  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:47 pm : link
walk it off in dramatic fashion.
He threw a lot of pitches in the 8th  
schabadoo : 10/13/2015 10:48 pm : link
Is he normally a 1 inning guy?
RE: He threw a lot of pitches in the 8th  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 10:52 pm : link
In comment 12548400 schabadoo said:
Quote:
Is he normally a 1 inning guy?


what did they just say? he has 6 career multi-inning saves. something like that.

doesn't do it often.
If they play that shift against cespedes  
PA Giant Fan : 10/13/2015 10:53 pm : link
Would love to see him drop a bunt down the line. Its a base hit every time if he can get it down
We need DeGrom to pitch a gem and go deep  
Canton : 10/13/2015 10:56 pm : link
in game 5.
travis just got pimpslapped  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:56 pm : link
.
What in the fuck is d'arnaud swinging at  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:57 pm : link
.
Swing harder guys !!  
EricJ : 10/13/2015 10:58 pm : link
you can knock in 2 runs with one swing !
Fucking weak ass  
RodneyHamp : 10/13/2015 10:58 pm : link
Shit.
godfuckingdammit  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:58 pm : link
hope we can get another gem from jake

fuck chase utley and the mlb
Duda has been absolutely awful  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 10:58 pm : link
What a no-show
Fucking pathetic offensive performance tonight  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:59 pm : link
.
that sucked donkey dick  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 10:59 pm : link
.
RE: Duda has been absolutely awful  
Giants4246 : 10/13/2015 10:59 pm : link
In comment 12548428 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
What a no-show


He's been a fucking bum
Wright has fallen off a cliff as well  
Canton : 10/13/2015 11:00 pm : link
.
nothing better than  
pjcas18 : 10/13/2015 11:01 pm : link
an elimination game in sports.

I like our chances with deGrom
Cespedes and d'Arnaud with embarrassing AB's in the 9th  
Rob in Rockaway : 10/13/2015 11:01 pm : link
both morons trying to hit 3 run HR's with no one on base. Murphy was our chance in the 8th and he just missed. I had zero faith in the 9th inning lineup.
Darling said the Mets stuck out 46 times in 4 games...  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/13/2015 11:01 pm : link
...ouch!

Oh well, they play better on the road anyway.
Oh well, it'll just be that much sweeter on Thursday.  
glowrider : 10/13/2015 11:04 pm : link
Good game. We had our chances.

This is why Game 3 is so important.
RE: Wright has fallen off a cliff as well  
PhiPsi125 : 10/13/2015 11:04 pm : link
In comment 12548434 Canton said:
Quote:
.


At least he can work out plenty of walks and has been a part of some key moments because he can get on base.

Duda is 2 for 15 with 9 Ks and 1 BB. He sucks.
Well that sucks  
moespree : 10/13/2015 11:04 pm : link
Not going to be easy to win there. But it's not like they can't. If there is any advantage to be had for the Mets it's Grienke has no real backup if he falters, deGrom has Syndergaard.
Mets hitters were overanxious  
Vanzetti : 10/13/2015 11:07 pm : link
Kershaw was terrific and can do that to hitters. But guys were upper-cutting way too much. You have to just try and hit linedrives. Murphy's final AB was a perfect example. That's not his two-strike swing. He was trying to jack it and that's why he got underneath it. That was a fat pitch right over the middle of the plate.

Same thing with Conforto in his one AB. Travis is just frustrated and swinging frustrated. That was a truly terrible AB in the ninth. Jansen could see how he was swinging and just kept throwing high fastballs.

Need to do a better job in game 5
We had such a great approach at the plate overall in game 1  
GMenLTS : 10/13/2015 11:09 pm : link
and we basically forgot exactly how to do that again tonight.

Kershaw pitched well but he wasn't unhittable.
Lets  
spike : 10/13/2015 11:11 pm : link
Finish it on Thursday.

And bean utley
I agree the Muprhy at bat in the 8th was poor  
moespree : 10/13/2015 11:12 pm : link
Especially on a 3-2 count with 2 out. Runners were in motion. Better than decent chance because of that Wright could score from 1st on a basehit. Murphy went for the 4-3 lead though and got under it. Poor decision.
RE: Well that sucks  
glowrider : 10/13/2015 11:15 pm : link
In comment 12548445 moespree said:
Quote:
Not going to be easy to win there. But it's not like they can't. If there is any advantage to be had for the Mets it's Grienke has no real backup if he falters, deGrom has Syndergaard.


That just sounds bad ass - deGrom has Syndergaard.

Tonight, not pretty, but the pitching was there. What could you expect more from Matz? He let up 3 but limited the damage. Colon is such a stud. So's Kershaw. Once he got that curve ball in for strikes...he's a phenomenal pitcher.
Pedro and Sheff criticizing Met hitters for not stepping out  
Vanzetti : 10/13/2015 11:18 pm : link
Pedro in particular saying you can't let Kershaw set the tempo like that. Dusty Baker agrees, especially at home. Step out let the crowd noise build. Murphy was the only one who did that, according to Dusty

Can you guys get the TBS postgame in NY?  
Vanzetti : 10/13/2015 11:20 pm : link
If so, I would listen. These guys are terrific. Great analysis
RE: We had such a great approach at the plate overall in game 1  
Vanzetti : 10/13/2015 11:23 pm : link
In comment 12548451 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
and we basically forgot exactly how to do that again tonight.

Kershaw pitched well but he wasn't unhittable.


He had quite a few hanging breaking balls. Some of them were high and out of the zone, but RH can hit those if they time them. But the Mets hitters were off balance all night. He is a great pitcher no doubt. But I agree he was not unhittable.
I think we win on Friday  
Vanzetti : 10/13/2015 11:26 pm : link
Matz and Thor are still a bit raw. They have to take control of the game and know when to break from the gameplan.

Degrom is different. He knows what he wants to throw and I think he will be dominant with the extra day of rest.
Vanzetti  
PA Giant Fan : 10/13/2015 11:26 pm : link
Correct. Thought the same thing. I think it was Wright that he really hung one but you can get away with it when you have his stuff.
One Final Thought  
Vanzetti : 10/13/2015 11:30 pm : link
We can bicker sometimes on BBI Mets threads, but you guys are all great fans.

Exchanging posts has definitely made this season more exciting.

Here's to victory in Game!!!

Even if we don't pull this out  
Canton : 10/13/2015 11:32 pm : link
Our young pitchers are gaining invaluable experience. They will be hungry next year to get back. This is critical learning for our young staff.

We have quite a few years to make some noise.

With that said, I still want a taste of the NLCS again.
I can't imagine anyone  
SethFromAstoria : 10/14/2015 12:31 am : link
is really surprised at the large number of strikeouts in 4 games when 3 of those were against 2 guys with a combined 501ks in 454 innings. Right?
With the Dodgers injuries  
Vanzetti : 10/14/2015 12:38 am : link
Mets have a more talented roster. They should win. Five game series tips the balance somewhat because the Dodgers can throw their two very good starters twice. But Mets have so much more depth. They should prevail.
Kershaw was Kershaw  
RasputinPrime : 10/14/2015 12:46 am : link
but the bubble has to pop on Greinke.
RE: With the Dodgers injuries  
SethFromAstoria : 10/14/2015 1:04 am : link
In comment 12548534 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Mets have a more talented roster. They should win. Five game series tips the balance somewhat because the Dodgers can throw their two very good starters twice. But Mets have so much more depth. They should prevail.


See but tonight was a textbook example of why the idea is to get into the dance. And in a 5 game series, not only is it somewhat a toss up in most of these even without these guys but when both teams can send out pitchers who can shut down any lineup and make any hitter look bad, its really almost irrelevant who has depth. The only thing that matters is whether that night's ace has his stuff going. Momentum doesn't matter, runs scored the prior game doesn't matter, home field doesn't matter. You've seen it now in our series and you've seen it in every other one, every year. However especially in this one, it's impossible to have any idea what will happen. The only time either team will be really successful at the plate is if the guy on the mound doesn't have his location or makes a couple mistakes that lead to homers. Otherwise just pray for some errors and hope you can get pitch counts high quicker than the other team
It was a very disappointing loss,  
Ira : 10/14/2015 5:55 am : link
and we're facing an equally good pitcher in LA, but it's not over yet. So, I'm not ready to start thinking about next season. Let's go Mets!
RE: I can't imagine anyone  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 7:56 am : link
In comment 12548531 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
is really surprised at the large number of strikeouts in 4 games when 3 of those were against 2 guys with a combined 501ks in 454 innings. Right?


Amen. People are really citing K numbers and batting averages in a 5 games series facing Kershaw and Greinke two times a piece?? Really?? You mean a couple guys have struggled???? SHOCKER.
Really praying we don't  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 7:57 am : link
spend the entire offseason talking about that Utley interference play and what life could have been had they made the correct call.....
Getting Kershawed by Kershaw is  
Headhunter : 10/14/2015 8:09 am : link
something that happens. He is the best pitcher on planet earth and there is disappointment but no disgrace. Thursday heroes or bums will be made in Met lore.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 10/14/2015 8:15 am : link
Quote:
ZGiants98 : 7:56 am : link : reply
Amen. People are really citing K numbers and batting averages in a 5 games series facing Kershaw and Greinke two times a piece?? Really?? You mean a couple guys have struggled???? SHOCKER.


People should be talking more about how the hell Murphy smacked two dingers off of Kershaw more than they should about the K's.
Thursday in Yiddish is  
Headhunter : 10/14/2015 8:44 am : link
Tuchas on der tisch
The one time we faced  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 8:55 am : link
a good, not super powered freak of nature, our lineup exploded for 13 runs. We knew this would be tough. Whining about 3-4 game samples is pathetic.
This loss still hurts  
Canton : 10/14/2015 10:42 am : link
I wanted to see them clinch it at home. Matz should hold his head high. We only got him one run. He can't shoulder the blame.
RE: This loss still hurts  
schabadoo : 10/14/2015 10:47 am : link
In comment 12549024 Canton said:
Quote:
I wanted to see them clinch it at home. Matz should hold his head high. We only got him one run. He can't shoulder the blame.


That curveball to Kershaw is reminding me of Wohlers getting beat on his third pitch to Leyritz.
I can't blame the pitching  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 10:54 am : link
Or the hitters last night. We got Clayton Kershaw'd. It was bound to happen eventually. We should have won game two and seized that opportunity but the umps fucked us. Let's hope this series isn't remembered by that play. Greinke is arguably the best pitcher in baseball this year and he's home where the Dodgers never lose. I can't see a more difficult game/situation amongst the remaining teams if we move on. This is the biggest challenge we could ever possibly imagine.
RE: The one time we faced  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 10:58 am : link
In comment 12548728 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
a good, not super powered freak of nature, our lineup exploded for 13 runs. We knew this would be tough. Whining about 3-4 game samples is pathetic.


I really don't understand the need to attack your fellow fans because some may complain about certain players that have vastly underperformed. Duda has been straight trash. Wright crushes lefties but has been held to one hit in four games (although he has walked a bunch). Except for one game, TdA has been awful. Yes, we are facing great pitchers...I understand that. Everybody complains about something, even you.
Eh, I do place blame on the hitters. The pitching was good  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 11:04 am : link
enough to win. The mets went away from their game plan and it hurt them. Kershaw is great, no doubt, but on three days rest we had an opportunity to hit him. The hitters did nothing to get him out of rhythm and they were all trying to hit the 5 run HR. You watch the Dodgers and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM stepped out of the box. All game, every game. It's the little things that allow you to win a game while only scoring 3 runs. I'm not surprised they weren't coached that way.
RE: RE: The one time we faced  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 11:15 am : link
In comment 12549100 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 12548728 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


a good, not super powered freak of nature, our lineup exploded for 13 runs. We knew this would be tough. Whining about 3-4 game samples is pathetic.



I really don't understand the need to attack your fellow fans because some may complain about certain players that have vastly underperformed. Duda has been straight trash. Wright crushes lefties but has been held to one hit in four games (although he has walked a bunch). Except for one game, TdA has been awful. Yes, we are facing great pitchers...I understand that. Everybody complains about something, even you.


As long as you can identify it as simply complaining and not anything of merit. I get the need to voice frustration, even if it's misplaced. Also people clearly have biases against certain players. For you, you are going to rip Duda every chance you get, while Wright who has been worst, and has had the more favorable pitching matchups, we aren't likely to hear a peep about. It's all good, but it becomes pretty predictable and grating. You're right though. I have my targets too. I guess we all do. I actually think Wright and Duda have taken some pretty good atbats this series, TDA obviously had s huge night in game 3. We've played 4 games. Thinking a few guys wouldn't struggle against Kershaw/Greinke 4 out of 5 times is pretty asinine IMO.
RE: Eh, I do place blame on the hitters. The pitching was good  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 11:19 am : link
In comment 12549120 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
enough to win. The mets went away from their game plan and it hurt them. Kershaw is great, no doubt, but on three days rest we had an opportunity to hit him. The hitters did nothing to get him out of rhythm and they were all trying to hit the 5 run HR. You watch the Dodgers and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM stepped out of the box. All game, every game. It's the little things that allow you to win a game while only scoring 3 runs. I'm not surprised they weren't coached that way.


I don't know about that. I mean did you see Kershaw last night? The short day rest excuse doesn't really fly anymore. He was as dominant as I've ever seen him. The game plan WAS to take pitches and get him out of there. Wright has admitted this. Well guess what? Kershaw started every damn hitter off with strike one while they watched the pitch go by. Plan foiled. Advantage? The great Clayton Edward Kershaw.
Kershaw's  
Metnut : 10/14/2015 11:21 am : link
fastball avg. velocity last night was the highest of all of his starts this season. It doesn't mean that the Mets shouldn't have stepped out of the box a bit more or, or that they couldn't have scratched a few runs off of him in such a big spot, but saying that he wasn't 100% because of 3-days rest is just not the case here.
RE: Kershaw's  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 11:23 am : link
In comment 12549185 Metnut said:
Quote:
fastball avg. velocity last night was the highest of all of his starts this season. It doesn't mean that the Mets shouldn't have stepped out of the box a bit more or, or that they couldn't have scratched a few runs off of him in such a big spot, but saying that he wasn't 100% because of 3-days rest is just not the case here.


Agreed. He was fired up and as on as on could be.
Z, last night was the first time I complained about Duda and  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 11:33 am : link
I made a whopping to comments citing his awful stats. I also mentioned that DW hasn't been great either so your claim about that holds no water.

And for what it's worth, DW has not been worse than Duda. Duda has exactly ONE extra hit while striking out the majority of his ABs ( and only 1 BB). DW hasn't been great but at least he's been getting on base at a decent clip bc of walks and been in the thick of the scoring. You praised Granderson all season for his ability to generate walks while not hitting as much...DW doesn't get the same benefit?

Yes, I'm aware it's a small sample size playing only 4 games...but that's what we've got. We've had an entire season for sample sizes, now we need to get it going. You miss the point of my post. I said that Kershaw was great. But we did nothing to disrupt Kershaws rhythm. We sat in the box and waited to swing for the fences. Like I said, and Pedro said last night, we should have been stepping out more like the Dodgers. I don't like it but it makes sense. Oh well, on to the next.
RE: Kershaw's  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 11:36 am : link
In comment 12549185 Metnut said:
Quote:
fastball avg. velocity last night was the highest of all of his starts this season. It doesn't mean that the Mets shouldn't have stepped out of the box a bit more or, or that they couldn't have scratched a few runs off of him in such a big spot, but saying that he wasn't 100% because of 3-days rest is just not the case here.


I never said he wasn't 100%. But pitching on three days rest isn't something a pitcher normally does. We see with our own Matt Harvey how it can affect pitchers if you change their routine. Darling talks about it all the time. I don't think it was a stretch to think he might have been less effective or prone to mistakes while on short rest. Create create create. It's been my gripe with the coaching staff all year. It may have changed nothing. But at least you try.
Baseball is a game of inches  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 11:40 am : link
If Wright, Flores, and Murphy all moved the other way 6 inches then we probably get out of that inning with zero runs and win the game 1-0.

They found the holes and had their inning. Our pitching was pretty darn good yesterday. Theirs was better.
I was never defending Duda  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 11:49 am : link
Over Wright. Just pointing out how some like to do exactly that. I also wasn't targeting you. There are people here that will jump on certain players every chance they get. I'm sure you you've witnessed the Wright bashers, Flores bashers, ect. For you... That seems to be Duda. Last year, it was Granderson. I don't see how Duda is "trash". He had a very nice, albeit streaky year, and actually finished hitting well. He's faced almost all lefthanders so far so it's not surprising he's struck out a lot.

Our lineup is arguably the best in the entire league. It is what it is. All 8 players have played their part in getting us to this point. Dissecting 3-4 game samples in baseball will always be stupid. I could care less who is hitting .300 or who is 0-11 over 3 games. These are all important players and we need to find a way to get runs across any way we can. Trashing and spitting all over our players is just annoying IMO. especially the good ones.
RE: Baseball is a game of inches  
steve in ky : 10/14/2015 11:51 am : link
In comment 12549253 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
If Wright, Flores, and Murphy all moved the other way 6 inches then we probably get out of that inning with zero runs and win the game 1-0.

They found the holes and had their inning. Our pitching was pretty darn good yesterday. Theirs was better.


Or Matz allow the opposing pitcher to get on base. Not getting that out was the killer, it opened the door for them.
Not to make a big deal out of it, but you were absolutely  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 12:13 pm : link
targeting me, which is fine.

Quote:
For you, you are going to rip Duda every chance you get, while Wright who has been worst, and has had the more favorable pitching matchups, we aren't likely to hear a peep about. It's all good, but it becomes pretty predictable and grating.


I made the post, you can certainly comment on it. I don't see the big deal about posting how awful a player is. We've all done it. Duda HAS been trash this series. Contributed nothing. Wright is a close second to Duda. I really don't get not caring about the small sample size because it's irrelevant. We are in a do or die series. If you are invisible like Duda, Wright, and TdA for the most part, it's fair game to point out their inability to contribute. I understand it may be annoying to some...but so is the constant excuses we get from some posters about certain players. To each his own I guess. But I don't think we fans have been THAT bad with killing the team on their shortcomings. But some absolutely deserve it. This is the constant fear with Duda. All or nothing with him...and we got nothing this series. It's hard to build success around that.
RE: RE: Baseball is a game of inches  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 12:14 pm : link
In comment 12549302 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 12549253 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


If Wright, Flores, and Murphy all moved the other way 6 inches then we probably get out of that inning with zero runs and win the game 1-0.

They found the holes and had their inning. Our pitching was pretty darn good yesterday. Theirs was better.



Or Matz allow the opposing pitcher to get on base. Not getting that out was the killer, it opened the door for them.


Yes, that also. That stung.
RE: Not to make a big deal out of it, but you were absolutely  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 12:24 pm : link
In comment 12549372 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
targeting me, which is fine.



Quote:


For you, you are going to rip Duda every chance you get, while Wright who has been worst, and has had the more favorable pitching matchups, we aren't likely to hear a peep about. It's all good, but it becomes pretty predictable and grating.



I made the post, you can certainly comment on it. I don't see the big deal about posting how awful a player is. We've all done it. Duda HAS been trash this series. Contributed nothing. Wright is a close second to Duda. I really don't get not caring about the small sample size because it's irrelevant. We are in a do or die series. If you are invisible like Duda, Wright, and TdA for the most part, it's fair game to point out their inability to contribute. I understand it may be annoying to some...but so is the constant excuses we get from some posters about certain players. To each his own I guess. But I don't think we fans have been THAT bad with killing the team on their shortcomings. But some absolutely deserve it. This is the constant fear with Duda. All or nothing with him...and we got nothing this series. It's hard to build success around that.


Still think your dismissing the Dodgers pitching. Like I said, the first time we faced a good, not fantastic Cy Young winner, we scored 13 times. We have very good hitters and Duda and Wright are good players. I'm happy they are on my team. Sometimes you go up against a buzzsaw and the buzzsaw wins. It's fine if you want to point out a player had a bad series, but it's the "build success around" part that irks me. Duda has now had back to back fantastic seasons and he is absolutely an important piece to this team. How he did in this series doesn't effect that IMO. One has nothing to do with the other. And as streaky as he was in 2015, he wasn't nearly in 2014. It's baseball. Players go through streaks.
It sucks...  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 12:26 pm : link
And if I was a betting man, I'd bet heavily on the Dodgers in game 5 at home. That said, we aren't dead yet. We still have a chance.
Not dismissing the Dodgers pitching at all...they are great  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 12:34 pm : link
I've said as much plenty of times. My gripe is only that we did nothing to get them out of a rhythm. It may have not done much, but it may have been the difference in a low scoring game. Much like it was for the Dodgers last night who seemingly stepped out on every single pitch. Pedro and Dusty killed the Mets for this last night after the game.

As for Duda...listen, I love the guy...and you can look at the stats for the year and say "hey, he did great". Depending on what stats you look at, that's up for debate. The point is that he is/was ultra streaky, and yes it is tough to build success around that. Same thing with Granderson last year. Yes, players go through slumps. But they don't just disappear for extended periods of time at multiple points in the year. That is hard to plan around and can tank a team at the wrong time. We can disagree about that until the cows come home but I don't think it's worth either of our time. I get where you are coming from.

Let's talk about how we are going to destroy them next game...led by Duda, DW, and TdA!!
Duda has been very disappointing so far  
Eric on Li : 10/14/2015 12:40 pm : link
Thought he had that one last night, but in his first AB he took a strike right down broadway with a full count. I don't think it's pressure that gets to him, I think he's just massively streaky and makes his lows even lower because he gets extremely passive. He's a nice piece if you have him on a good contract but he's not a guy who you can build around. He'd be very wise to just take the rumored extension in the offseason guaranteeing him his arb years and buying out 1 year of FA (and maybe 1 option year). I think mentally his performance would benefit from knowing he has some stability vs. playing for a big deal.
Duda had an interesting season  
moespree : 10/14/2015 12:44 pm : link
By most metrics, yes, he actually did have a better season than 2014. More doubles, higher on base, higher OPS in 18 less games and 42 less plate appearances. Also only 3 less homeruns in those same lesser amount of games and plate appearances. But in those lesser appearances he had 3 more strikeouts than 2014. It's an odd season. The metrics say it's better, it certainly doesn't feel it. If anything it feel likes a flat lined season of amazing hot streaks and amazing cold streaks. Nothing in between. You can either get him out every time he comes up or you can't get him out at all every time he comes up.

It'd be a nice time for him to get into a hot streak again. That's an understatement.
RE: Not dismissing the Dodgers pitching at all...they are great  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 12:45 pm : link
In comment 12549427 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
I've said as much plenty of times. My gripe is only that we did nothing to get them out of a rhythm. It may have not done much, but it may have been the difference in a low scoring game. Much like it was for the Dodgers last night who seemingly stepped out on every single pitch. Pedro and Dusty killed the Mets for this last night after the game.

As for Duda...listen, I love the guy...and you can look at the stats for the year and say "hey, he did great". Depending on what stats you look at, that's up for debate. The point is that he is/was ultra streaky, and yes it is tough to build success around that. Same thing with Granderson last year. Yes, players go through slumps. But they don't just disappear for extended periods of time at multiple points in the year. That is hard to plan around and can tank a team at the wrong time. We can disagree about that until the cows come home but I don't think it's worth either of our time. I get where you are coming from.

Let's talk about how we are going to destroy them next game...led by Duda, DW, and TdA!!


Lol. Sounds good man!
RE: Duda had an interesting season  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 12:49 pm : link
In comment 12549446 moespree said:
Quote:
By most metrics, yes, he actually did have a better season than 2014. More doubles, higher on base, higher OPS in 18 less games and 42 less plate appearances. Also only 3 less homeruns in those same lesser amount of games and plate appearances. But in those lesser appearances he had 3 more strikeouts than 2014. It's an odd season. The metrics say it's better, it certainly doesn't feel it. If anything it feel likes a flat lined season of amazing hot streaks and amazing cold streaks. Nothing in between. You can either get him out every time he comes up or you can't get him out at all every time he comes up.

It'd be a nice time for him to get into a hot streak again. That's an understatement.


Didn't he finish the year in a hot streak though? I mean, didn't he just rip off like 3-4 HR in the last week or so of the season? He's faced some great pitching, and he's struggled over 4 games. Hardly a big deal. I'm glad we have him in the lineup against Greinke Thursday. I know that.
RE: Duda has been very disappointing so far  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 12:54 pm : link
In comment 12549438 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Thought he had that one last night, but in his first AB he took a strike right down broadway with a full count. I don't think it's pressure that gets to him, I think he's just massively streaky and makes his lows even lower because he gets extremely passive. He's a nice piece if you have him on a good contract but he's not a guy who you can build around. He'd be very wise to just take the rumored extension in the offseason guaranteeing him his arb years and buying out 1 year of FA (and maybe 1 option year). I think mentally his performance would benefit from knowing he has some stability vs. playing for a big deal.

Define what makes a player you can build around? Duda is one of the best first baseman in the league. I really don't think that can be argued. He had a streaky year? How streaky has Cespedes been?? Granderson has made a career out of being streaky. Wright? TDA? We've seen all these players go through long sustained slumps. Anybody remember Delgado's tenure as a Met? Just don't understand this rational. It all balances out in the end which is why we don't generally look at small samples in baseball.
Sure  
moespree : 10/14/2015 12:55 pm : link
But that was the last week of the season. He's 2-15 in this series. Of course a huge part of it is the good pitching he has faced. But facing great pitching or not, this has largely been his 2015 season. Blistering hot one week, ice cold the next.
The option year  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 12:56 pm : link
Extension is LONG gone. Zero chance in a billion years he accepts that now. Sandy wouldn't even offer it anymore it would be such an insult.
RE: Sure  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 12:58 pm : link
In comment 12549478 moespree said:
Quote:
But that was the last week of the season. He's 2-15 in this series. Of course a huge part of it is the good pitching he has faced. But facing great pitching or not, this has largely been his 2015 season. Blistering hot one week, ice cold the next.


I don't really think he's been up and down week to week though. He had one brutal cold streak in May/June and then another mini one after he came off the DL and he had back issues late in the year.
Kershaw was Kershaw last night but Our hitting approach was poor  
TD : 10/14/2015 1:03 pm : link
As others have noted, we let him dictate tempo all game long and didn't try to slow him down or take smart swings. It was all hurry-up ABs and home run swings. No 2-strike hitting, stepping out, etc. I'm sure that if we had been able to get him out of the game in the 6th (even with the one run allowed), we would have gotten to the middle relief and scored more runs.

Oh well... Hope they have a better approach against Grienke tomorrow. They'll need it. At leastwe got Degrom on the mound.
I  
DanMetroMan : 10/14/2015 1:03 pm : link
think fans focus too much on "streaky". Pre-playoffs in general terms end of the year stats represent a players "resume". Winning games in April show up the same as games in August. Duda is a streaky player, essentially "all" players are if you aren't Gwynn or Ichiro. Duda has struggled this series but 1. It's 15 ab's 2. 2 starts vs. the best pitcher in baseball who is a lefty and 1 start vs. the likely NL Cy Young award winner. Who knows what the season looks like if Duda doesn't go on a RAMPAGE in late July hitting 9 homers over 8 starts with a 1.651 OPS? The Mets went 7-2 during that run including 3 1 run victories vs. the Nationals. Without Duda's heroics maybe they lose all 3? I'd love to see him have a big game, we need someone to step up but "Duda is sooooo streaky" is a bit overplayed.
Hardly a big deal? Ugh, come on man. What he did  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 1:04 pm : link
The last week or two of the season is irrelevant. Disappearing in the first four games of a five game series is the very definition of a huge deal. Yes, he has faced some tough lefties. So has Granderson. If anything, this just further defines how streaky he is and how it is hard to succeed around him. I hope he proves is all wrong. But if I was a betting man, I'd put money on him shitting the bed again next game.
RE: RE: Sure  
DanMetroMan : 10/14/2015 1:06 pm : link
In comment 12549488 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 12549478 moespree said:


Quote:


But that was the last week of the season. He's 2-15 in this series. Of course a huge part of it is the good pitching he has faced. But facing great pitching or not, this has largely been his 2015 season. Blistering hot one week, ice cold the next.



I don't really think he's been up and down week to week though. He had one brutal cold streak in May/June and then another mini one after he came off the DL and he had back issues late in the year.


+1

Duda OPS by month
.915
.948
.576
.749
.976
.961

So he had an AWFUL June, a mediocre July and 4 excellent months bookending them
Dan, I respect your opinion and you are by far a more  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 1:13 pm : link
knowledgable fan than I. I'm sure you can bombard me with stats that will weaken my argument but after watching Duda this year there is no way I can agree that the streaky thing is overplayed. His streakiness has been discussed all season long. The stats you just posted makes it seem like he's a superstar. He's not. And while all players can be streaky, he takes it to a new level. Just how I feel after watching nearly every game this season.
Full disclosure...I'm aware I may be offfbase. Just how I feel  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 1:23 pm : link
I'm sure overall stats could prove me otherwise, lol.
RE: Dan, I respect your opinion and you are by far a more  
DanMetroMan : 10/14/2015 1:23 pm : link
In comment 12549534 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
knowledgable fan than I. I'm sure you can bombard me with stats that will weaken my argument but after watching Duda this year there is no way I can agree that the streaky thing is overplayed. His streakiness has been discussed all season long. The stats you just posted makes it seem like he's a superstar. He's not. And while all players can be streaky, he takes it to a new level. Just how I feel after watching nearly every game this season.


Phi,
I didn't exactly post advance numbers. Those are his OPS's by month. He was horrendous in June, mediocre in July and very good/great in the other months. I think at this point "OPS" is pretty much accepted as a "normal" stat by even the staunchest of "I don't like stats!" people

April/March he hit .325/.427/.488 over 23 games
May .276/.366/.582 over 27 games
June he was horrendous hitting .187/.312/.264
July his slump continued until late in the month when he went on his rampage which began on 7/25
August .304/.389/.587 over 13 games
Sept .227/.386/.576, but he hit 6 homers and walked more times than he struck out (15 vs. 14) so his OPS was a robust .961. Sept he simply had an unusually low BABIP (.196) otherwise he would have hit .260+
49  
DanMetroMan : 10/14/2015 1:28 pm : link
second half games Duda posted a .956 OPS with 15 homers and in 68 home games he was SUPERSTAR caliber (1.000 OPS). The Mets played 8 games from 7/25 to 8/2 winning 2/2 vs. the Dodgers, 3/3 vs. the Nationals, 4 of those 5 wins were 1 run games and Duda hit 9 homers hitting nearly .400. Who knows what the season looks like without that? The sweep of the Nats changed the season in my eyes.
True, but also who knows what the season looks like if he didn't  
PhiPsi125 : 10/14/2015 1:30 pm : link
disappear for essentially two straight months.
RE: RE: Duda has been very disappointing so far  
Eric on Li : 10/14/2015 1:56 pm : link
In comment 12549474 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:


Define what makes a player you can build around? Duda is one of the best first baseman in the league. I really don't think that can be argued. He had a streaky year? How streaky has Cespedes been?? Granderson has made a career out of being streaky. Wright? TDA? We've seen all these players go through long sustained slumps. Anybody remember Delgado's tenure as a Met? Just don't understand this rational. It all balances out in the end which is why we don't generally look at small samples in baseball.


Cespedes is a gold glove LF'er with the ability to play a premium position. If you consider him a CF'er he has elite offensive stats - possibly even best in baseball at his position. He's also shown that he can come up with big hits in big games and thrives in the spotlight. Out of the guys you listed he's the only one who at this phase in their career is worth a 100M contract (or in other words someone you would be willing to build your team around).

Duda is a very solid 1B but he is not elite at the position. Rizzo, Freeman, Gonzalez, Goldschmidt, and Votto are all pretty clearly better than he is and that's just NL. Also, streaky is 1 thing but for those 6 weeks or so around June he was literally the worst player in MLB. I'm a fan of his but if he were a FA right now I'd be very afraid to give him a big deal.

So as I said, very solid player if he's on a good contract, which fortunately for us he is. I could very well see him stringing together a career year next year if the overall lineup were better for the entire season, but I think one thing that would also help him is having security and stability with his contract situation. It would not shock me at all to see the Mets not sign Cespedes this offseason because he gets too expensive and instead resign a bunch of guys to extensions - including Duda, JdG, and Harvey.
Thanks for backing me up Dan.  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 2:25 pm : link
I think Duda's terrible June is burned in everyone's minds because it came at a time when we desperately needed offense. Everyone was hurt. This was before the Cespedes, Conforto, Uribe, and Johnson additions. We needed Duda to be our savior and he wasn't. The reality was he was very consistent and good for 4.5 months of he season and in a lot of ways was even better than he was in 2014.
ZGiants  
DanMetroMan : 10/14/2015 2:35 pm : link
I think the only place we disagree is, I think it's still worth speaking to Duda after the year about a reasonable extension. Maybe his price is beyond what makes sense but no harm in trying to use the "feel good" season as an approach in trying to keep a player. He's team controlled for 2 more. I'd offer to inflate his next 2 years salary + tack on 2 more + 2 "sweet" team options. Maybe he says no. But I wouldn't mind Duda locked up 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 with 2 additional options at BIG money (20ish) and buyout should Duda surprise/shock and be a David Ortiz type of long lasting player.
We got them where we want them  
spike : 10/14/2015 2:35 pm : link
On the Road and our backs against the wall, with our no 1 true ace on the mound.
As  
DanMetroMan : 10/14/2015 2:36 pm : link
you also noted, I think people are forgetting how bad the Mets lineup was around Duda. If anything his good early season months were even more impressive. The Mets lineup at times around him was COMICAL.
RE: RE: RE: Duda has been very disappointing so far  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 2:37 pm : link
In comment 12549661 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 12549474 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:




Define what makes a player you can build around? Duda is one of the best first baseman in the league. I really don't think that can be argued. He had a streaky year? How streaky has Cespedes been?? Granderson has made a career out of being streaky. Wright? TDA? We've seen all these players go through long sustained slumps. Anybody remember Delgado's tenure as a Met? Just don't understand this rational. It all balances out in the end which is why we don't generally look at small samples in baseball.



Cespedes is a gold glove LF'er with the ability to play a premium position. If you consider him a CF'er he has elite offensive stats - possibly even best in baseball at his position. He's also shown that he can come up with big hits in big games and thrives in the spotlight. Out of the guys you listed he's the only one who at this phase in their career is worth a 100M contract (or in other words someone you would be willing to build your team around).

Duda is a very solid 1B but he is not elite at the position. Rizzo, Freeman, Gonzalez, Goldschmidt, and Votto are all pretty clearly better than he is and that's just NL. Also, streaky is 1 thing but for those 6 weeks or so around June he was literally the worst player in MLB. I'm a fan of his but if he were a FA right now I'd be very afraid to give him a big deal.

So as I said, very solid player if he's on a good contract, which fortunately for us he is. I could very well see him stringing together a career year next year if the overall lineup were better for the entire season, but I think one thing that would also help him is having security and stability with his contract situation. It would not shock me at all to see the Mets not sign Cespedes this offseason because he gets too expensive and instead resign a bunch of guys to extensions - including Duda, JdG, and Harvey.


Your talking about him getting edged out by the absolute biggest stars in the game. He finished tenth in baseball in WAR and ninth in wRC+ and again, you are talking about MVP types barely ahead of him. He goes up even further in the rankings if you take his two year averages. Cespedes has not won a gold glove and I don't know how he's proven he can hit on the biggest stage. He hit one homerun in garbage time against a crappy pitcher since its "counted". For us, during the year, he had a raging hot streak sandwiched between two cold streaks. He's also having a career year and has never had this much success before. You could easily argue Duda is more consistent then Cespedes at this point in their careers offensively. Duda's a 3 WAR player. He's worth 21 million annually and considering how rare power is, probably more. If he were a free agent, he'd easily get a 4-5 year deal worth 21 per.
RE: ZGiants  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 2:42 pm : link
In comment 12549742 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I think the only place we disagree is, I think it's still worth speaking to Duda after the year about a reasonable extension. Maybe his price is beyond what makes sense but no harm in trying to use the "feel good" season as an approach in trying to keep a player. He's team controlled for 2 more. I'd offer to inflate his next 2 years salary + tack on 2 more + 2 "sweet" team options. Maybe he says no. But I wouldn't mind Duda locked up 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 with 2 additional options at BIG money (20ish) and buyout should Duda surprise/shock and be a David Ortiz type of long lasting player.


I'd be fine offering him an extension but one of the draws with him accepting it before 2015 was that he wasn't making a lot in arbitration this year. Now he's in his last two years of arbitration where he already stands to make a good amount of money. For him to forgo free agency and his one shot at a big pay day in two years, I think you tear up his arbitration years and offer him 5 years/ 100 million right now. That's essentially only a three year / 65 million dollar extension. Only way I can see it working IMO so it's fair for both sides.
RE: As  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 2:57 pm : link
In comment 12549749 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
you also noted, I think people are forgetting how bad the Mets lineup was around Duda. If anything his good early season months were even more impressive. The Mets lineup at times around him was COMICAL.


This is true and I vividly remember him getting pitched around a ton in the earlier months.
Also if you inflate  
ZGiants98 : 10/14/2015 3:01 pm : link
His arbitration years, offer him two good years, and add two option years we are probably in the same ball park of 100 million I'd imagine also.
I think for everyone's sake  
SethFromAstoria : 10/14/2015 3:08 pm : link
analyzing anyone in the lineup based on last night's game is futile. Best thing to do in my opinion is just to acknowledge that this is how baseball works, especially in the playoffs. WHen you go against a pitcher like Kershaw you just accept that there was no woulda, coulda, shoulda. When the guy on the mound dominates, they are in control of the whole game and the one on one nature of the sport plays out with the elite pitcher making everyone look foolish. I think the baseball phrase we've all heard more than any other is "Great Pitching Always Beats Great Hitting". And he is beyond great. He's a generational lefty who struck out 300 this year.

Get your popcorn ready for next game and pray.

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