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People are missing the point of yesterday's victory

jcn56 : 10/26/2015 8:29 am
You can't escape it - you don't read BBI, it's on the radio. You don't listen to the radio, you get it on line at the deli. Seems like everywhere, there's a Giants fan running his mouth about how pointless yesterday's victory was.

Thing is - these guys are missing the bigger point.

#1 - we're still injured. This would have been a flawed team with Beatty, Cruz and JPP out there. None of those guys have seen the field, and we're down Amukamara. That takes a flawed team down to barely competitive.

That wasn't an issue yesterday - since we met up against a team that's missing it's two best players. But people seem to somehow correlate missing the two best players into automatic steamroll, without factoring that they're healthy on D and we're still not healthy on O.

#2 - it's a rebuild. Young players and new faces taking on key roles which they're going to take time to grow in to and gel.

#3 - and most important - we're buying time. I don't hold high hopes for this season. Never have, didn't change because we ripped off a couple of wins. We just seem to have too many holes. But things change over the course of an NFL season. Right now, the objective is to stay alive until we're healthier, and possibly some of that growth and development leads to a better performing unit.

The whole idea that 'with X or Y back there, we'd have lost by a lot' is pointless. You play the game with who you have out there, and leave the 'what if's' to the Jets fans. One game at a time, one series at a time, play their hardest, try to get better, and see where it leads us.

And for right now, it lead us to the top of this shitty division.
Another thing:  
Big Blue '56 : 10/26/2015 8:31 am : link
Dallas' OL is one of the better ones in the league, if not the best.

That said, the 14 days of "rest" made them crisper and more energized, imo..

The 6 days for us contributed to some sluggishness and why Dallas' OL routinely was pushing us around as they did, imho
+1  
Jay in Toronto : 10/26/2015 8:31 am : link
It's never to early to get in the habit of winning. How is less important.
RE: Another thing:  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 8:34 am : link
In comment 12576508 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Dallas' OL is one of the better ones in the league, if not the best.

That said, the 14 days of "rest" made them crisper and more energized, imo..

The 6 days for us contributed to some sluggishness and why Dallas' OL routinely was pushing us around as they did, imho


The fact that they had that time to work Cassel in and we had no tape on him couldn't have helped our case.

We also have no idea where Randle and Beckham are with their respective injuries. What BBI sees as a 'big deal' victory could easily have been two guys hopping on one leg through their routes.

Simple math - when you say things that make you sound like Craig Carton, it's time to throw yourself into George Costanza 'opposite mode'.
Wonderful Post  
grizz299 : 10/26/2015 8:37 am : link
some qualifications...that's two weeks in a row that we looked bad and the lustre is off the Buffalo win too as they stagger along.
So I don't know what the heck we have. Time will show us but right now it's confusing as well as frustrating.
Shocked at how willing Giants fans are  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/26/2015 8:37 am : link
to toss this win back like you're too good for it. When did that sense of entitlement come about?
RE: Wonderful Post  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 8:38 am : link
In comment 12576524 grizz299 said:
Quote:
some qualifications...that's two weeks in a row that we looked bad and the lustre is off the Buffalo win too as they stagger along.
So I don't know what the heck we have. Time will show us but right now it's confusing as well as frustrating.


You see the injury list for Buffalo? Make the same excuses for them you do for Dallas, please.
RE: Shocked at how willing Giants fans are  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/26/2015 8:40 am : link
In comment 12576527 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
to toss this win back like you're too good for it. When did that sense of entitlement come about?


Because they've seen the same song and dance since 2013 where this team beats bad teams and back-up QBs and then gets blown out by teams with a semi-functional offense?
Yesterday's result was fucking awesome  
GMenLTS : 10/26/2015 8:42 am : link
anyone that thinks otherwise is truly stupid. No way around it.

We're in the driver's seat for the division for fuck's sake.

Any day where the cowboys and eagles lose while the gmen win is fucking fantastic.
because it is easier to be miserable and negative  
Headhunter : 10/26/2015 8:43 am : link
tan upbeat and positive in life?
RE: RE: Shocked at how willing Giants fans are  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/26/2015 8:43 am : link
In comment 12576536 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 12576527 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


to toss this win back like you're too good for it. When did that sense of entitlement come about?



Because they've seen the same song and dance since 2013 where this team beats bad teams and back-up QBs and then gets blown out by teams with a semi-functional offense?



They did what they had to yesterday. Win a game. But somehow that's not good enough.
I never  
Rick5 : 10/26/2015 8:43 am : link
expected the Giants to be a SB contender this year and still don't. Nevertheless, why not enjoy this? We are almost halfway through the season with a winning record. I've seen plenty of truly awful seasons over the years. This isn't one of them so far. If you can't enjoy a win over Dallas in any season, why even bother watching at all?
I personally think there's a difference between not appreciating...  
Britt in VA : 10/26/2015 8:43 am : link
the win and balancing it vs. the bigger picture.

Saying people want to lose, or give back the win, is a bit of hyperbole.
I guess I'm one of the shitty fans. It's fun to win and be in first.  
BeerFridge : 10/26/2015 8:45 am : link
But we got dominated. It took 4 turnovers and a kick return to beat Matt Cassel by a TD. It's hard to believe that this team will turn it around and be good enough to do anything with first place.
They don't put pictures on the scoreboard  
GiantsRage2007 : 10/26/2015 8:46 am : link
An ugly win counts the same as a pretty one.

There are no asterisks in the standings.

As Al Davis said "Just win, Baby".

...all those sayings apply here...
RE: I personally think there's a difference between not appreciating...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/26/2015 8:46 am : link
In comment 12576549 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
the win and balancing it vs. the bigger picture.

Saying people want to lose, or give back the win, is a bit of hyperbole.


The bigger picture is they're still a flawed team, but this isn't a surprise to anyone who actually had reasonable expectations for this season and also knows how beat up and lacking the roster is. You take wins however you can get them. Being competitive in the face of the odds they have against them, being rather undermanned is what the context should be.
The point being - the bigger picture is a point in time thing in the  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 8:46 am : link
NFL.

Right now, it doesn't look so good for us. But that's with a ton of guys still hurt, and people still feeling their way around.

Remember - new defense, a lot of new faces. A rookie at LT. FA acquisitions starting on both sides of the ball.

What we are right now, in week 7, isn't what we will be in week 10 or week 16. We can project to some extent, but so many things will change between now and then.

The only thing we can do is look at the trend, and hope they continue to win to allow themselves the opportunity to improve as the season goes on, to push that trend upwards.
RE: I personally think there's a difference between not appreciating...  
lecky : 10/26/2015 8:49 am : link
In comment 12576549 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
the win and balancing it vs. the bigger picture.

Saying people want to lose, or give back the win, is a bit of hyperbole.


Very well said. A win is a win and a win against Dallas is much more than that. I think what people around here want to see is some sort of consistency from the players we would expect it from. Injuries are only an excuse for poorly coached teams. The better coached teams get injuries and fill the gap with the next man up. The Giants in no way look like a well coached team and that is our issue going forward in spite of this win.
The way I see it  
Headhunter : 10/26/2015 8:50 am : link
the more time that they are in it, gives the Oline more time to gel, more time for injured players to return more time for the back 4 to work together
and by week 13, they are still there, this could be a totally different product. The key is to be in position to make the Playoffs and see wherer the team is at that time. If you think that the Giants at week 7 will be the Giants at week 17( health being the wild card) then what can i say? If this is as good as you think the Giants will be, then you're right, what difference does yesterday make?
The big picture  
Rick5 : 10/26/2015 8:51 am : link
to me is that there is a realistic chance the Giants could have a winning season. Watching meaningful football games in December would be a lot of fun relative to many past seasons. That's good enough for me to enjoy a season.
Several on this site (and this thread) predicted a blow out  
Jimmy Googs : 10/26/2015 8:52 am : link
by the Giants I recall which was silly if anyone knows anything about NFCE football.

The bottom line though is Dallas has much better O-Line and D-Lines for us to blow them out. Even guys like McFadden and Devin Street can do special things given good line play.

Good win, needed win. Enjoy Monday on BBI...
RE: RE: RE: Shocked at how willing Giants fans are  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/26/2015 8:55 am : link
In comment 12576546 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12576536 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


In comment 12576527 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


to toss this win back like you're too good for it. When did that sense of entitlement come about?



Because they've seen the same song and dance since 2013 where this team beats bad teams and back-up QBs and then gets blown out by teams with a semi-functional offense?




They did what they had to yesterday. Win a game. But somehow that's not good enough.


That's your perception. Other people might say it's being realistic and tempering expectations. For example, I think Spags is doing a phenomenal job with a defense bereft of talent. Doesn't mean I'm bursting with positivity facing Brees in NO.
I don't know about this..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/26/2015 8:57 am : link
Quote:
I personally think there's a difference between not appreciating...
Britt in VA : 8:43 am : link : reply
the win and balancing it vs. the bigger picture.

Saying people want to lose, or give back the win, is a bit of hyperbole.


Yesterday was an absolute shitshow. Find posts that had the Giants winning this game and going on to win the Super Bowl. You won't find them. But what you will find are countless posts of people saying the team sucks. During a commercial break with about 2:20 left in the half, you had posters openly happy that the team was losing so that Reese and TC would get fired. Before that, you had one thread created for the sole purpose of telling us Schwartz sucks and another thread telling us Kuhn is brutal. This is in the middle of a game!

Immediately following the game, you'd swear we had lost. I'm celebrating with a beer and hordes of posters are openly dejected over getting a win that just days before they begged to have. We had posts bitching about time management even though it seemed like TC actually did well with time management. You had just simply bizarre posts asking why we are left with dogshit at TE and DL. You had a thread created blaming Hosely for the rushing yards.

To put it in perspective, the best thread postgame was created by RICH HOUSTON!! His thread wondering what the fuck was going on with Joe Buck's beard was more relevant that 99% of the other threads.

Because here's the thing - the negative posters are fighting windmills. They are opposing nobody - there are no calls that this team is great. There are no calls that a win over Dallas assures anything, but there are a shitload of posts saying that win blows chunks.

I know I take a lot of shit for calling people morons, but man, it was present and in our faces yesterday. and will probably continue as long as people are talking about firing a GM and a coach with over 30 minutes left in a game that puts the team in first place.
Cassel = Romo yesterday  
mrvax : 10/26/2015 9:00 am : link
they were almost a wash. Cassel, when he did throw, had some very accurate passes. The first pick was 100% on his receiver. The others were not terrible throws but great heads-up plays as the Giants had against Dallas in the season opener.

If Romo was there, the Cows would likely have not had as many rushing yards.
Here is one of my favorite things about BBI fans  
dep026 : 10/26/2015 9:03 am : link
they will literally bitch and complain about anything. I am not going to go back and sort through all the posts in the game thread, but here was one situation that had me dying of pure laughter it was so sad.

So there has been a lot of discussion about Eli forcing throws, especially when we are in FG range. So here are two plays that BBI fans commented on.

1. 3rd and 10, Eli drops back to pass.... no one is open so he throws a safe pass to Donnell, who naturally drops it 2 yards downfield. As soon as he dropped it, manys fans are yelling and bitching that Eli threw it short, to a wide open guy mind you, instead of trying to force it for a first down.
2. We have 3rd and goal from the 8, Eli drops back, sees no one open, feels the pressures, tucks the ball and takes the sack. Many posters were bitching and yelling that Eli needs to get the ball out quicker, he needs to force it OBJ, and he has to make a play.

It's mind boggling moronic what people want. If he throws an INT, they bitch. If he throws it away, they bitch. If he takes a sack, they bitch. If he intentionally grounds the ball, they bitch.

I think one word describes a lot of posters here..... Ill just say I used the word a lot in the previous paragraph.
I don't think anyone wants to throw the win back  
Mike from Ohio : 10/26/2015 9:04 am : link
I think there is a lot of mixed emotion about this game. It's impossible not to love that the Giants beat the Cowboys and sit alone atop the NFC East. They control their own destiny which is all you can ask for as you approach the midway point of the season.

However, I think that is tempered by the fact that when you look at the game, you don't see a unit that turned the corner, or even a unit that really played well to give you something to say "this is what can get us into the playoffs."

The win was huge, and all 3 units had good moments yesterday. However, there were also times both the offense and the defense looked overmatched against a team without its QB and its best WR. On top of last week's game, it didn't calm a lot of fears that this team isn't very good.

After they beat the Bills the mood was upbeat because they played well all game in all 3 phases and the future looked bright. This week felt a little more like two bad teams playing and someone had to win. We all know the wins are all that matter, so we need to focus on the fact that that is what we got.
RE: Cassel = Romo yesterday  
dep026 : 10/26/2015 9:05 am : link
In comment 12576604 mrvax said:
Quote:
they were almost a wash. Cassel, when he did throw, had some very accurate passes. The first pick was 100% on his receiver. The others were not terrible throws but great heads-up plays as the Giants had against Dallas in the season opener.

If Romo was there, the Cows would likely have not had as many rushing yards.


Now, this guy is one of the biggest Eli haters on this board. He was bashing him constantly yesterday and has throughout the year. He now comes and posts that Cassel = Romo. Are you fucking kidding me? Cassel fucking blows. Merriweather's INT was one of the WORST throws I have ever seen. If Eli did that, I would even bitch at it. You cant throw a 40 yard flutter ball that is 5 yards short of the WR.

There are some people who have no understanding of the position whatsoever.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Shocked at how willing Giants fans are  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/26/2015 9:08 am : link
In comment 12576589 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 12576546 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 12576536 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


In comment 12576527 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


to toss this win back like you're too good for it. When did that sense of entitlement come about?



Because they've seen the same song and dance since 2013 where this team beats bad teams and back-up QBs and then gets blown out by teams with a semi-functional offense?




They did what they had to yesterday. Win a game. But somehow that's not good enough.



That's your perception. Other people might say it's being realistic and tempering expectations. For example, I think Spags is doing a phenomenal job with a defense bereft of talent. Doesn't mean I'm bursting with positivity facing
Brees in NO.



I don't think the resounding negativity surrounding a win that I'm seeing is coming from a place of 'being realistic'.

A realistic person would know that this team was never in a position to have a flashy, feel good, cheesecake win, and wouldn't complain that they didn't get one.
RE: Here is one of my favorite things about BBI fans  
Mike from Ohio : 10/26/2015 9:08 am : link
In comment 12576611 dep026 said:
Quote:
they will literally bitch and complain about anything. I am not going to go back and sort through all the posts in the game thread, but here was one situation that had me dying of pure laughter it was so sad.

So there has been a lot of discussion about Eli forcing throws, especially when we are in FG range. So here are two plays that BBI fans commented on.

1. 3rd and 10, Eli drops back to pass.... no one is open so he throws a safe pass to Donnell, who naturally drops it 2 yards downfield. As soon as he dropped it, manys fans are yelling and bitching that Eli threw it short, to a wide open guy mind you, instead of trying to force it for a first down.
2. We have 3rd and goal from the 8, Eli drops back, sees no one open, feels the pressures, tucks the ball and takes the sack. Many posters were bitching and yelling that Eli needs to get the ball out quicker, he needs to force it OBJ, and he has to make a play.

It's mind boggling moronic what people want. If he throws an INT, they bitch. If he throws it away, they bitch. If he takes a sack, they bitch. If he intentionally grounds the ball, they bitch.

I think one word describes a lot of posters here..... Ill just say I used the word a lot in the previous paragraph.


Game threads are a terrible measure of what fans truly believe. You are getting emotional, knee-jerk reactions to stuff, not considered opinion. I would look at the threads started today as much better barometer of fan opinion about the game than the spleen-venting game threads.
RE: I don't think anyone wants to throw the win back  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 9:09 am : link
In comment 12576613 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
...
The win was huge, and all 3 units had good moments yesterday. However, there were also times both the offense and the defense looked overmatched against a team without its QB and its best WR. On top of last week's game, it didn't calm a lot of fears that this team isn't very good....


Mike - two things here...

One - that offense was missing it's starting LT and #2 WR. #1 and #3 WRs were on the field, but injured, in a short week. The defense it was facing was at full strength, and was strong in particular in the front 7, which posed a specific matchup difficulty due to the injuries.

Two - the NFL is a week to week game. I was disgusted with the game against Philly, but the real risk here, in a short week following that blowout, was that the Giants would come in wobbly and fail. That didn't happen.

IMO, if Randle had held on to that ball and scored, the tone of the board would have changed 100%, purely on the basis of the final score.
Dep - to be fair. Cassel stategically underthrew that  
Jimmy Googs : 10/26/2015 9:09 am : link
ball because he wanted to make Hosley look ridiculous. Which he did.

He just forgot about the safety...
Cassel..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/26/2015 9:09 am : link
had the best "punt" of the game!
Here's the thing ...  
Britt in VA : 10/26/2015 9:10 am : link
I don't think this is a poorly coached team. I think it's an untalented team. I think the coaching is what is winning us games. Coaching up an undermanned team. We are in year three of a rebuild, in a league that is built to go from worst to first in one off-season. We have the same flaws, essentially, that we had when we started the rebuild.

But at this point, this is our roster. It's just a bummer to me that then Nfc east is so winnable and we make it so hard on ourselves....

I guess I just hope that coughlin doesn't get fired for not being able to bluff his way out of a shitty hand, but I guess that's a conversation for the offseason.

This is our team and I'll root for them like I always do.
Giants came into the game at a real disadvantage  
Ivan15 : 10/26/2015 9:11 am : link
Short week, well rested opponent. Lots of players "out" or "questionable".

I would have been happy with a respectable loss so I am very happy for an ugly win.

Get to the bye week at 6-4 and see if the Giants can contend down the stretch. At the start of the year, I would have been very happy with 10-6. I still am - playoffs or not.
RE: Another thing:  
chris r : 10/26/2015 9:11 am : link
In comment 12576508 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Dallas' OL is one of the better ones in the league, if not the best.

That said, the 14 days of "rest" made them crisper and more energized, imo..

The 6 days for us contributed to some sluggishness and why Dallas' OL routinely was pushing us around as they did, imho


More rest made them crisper? That's the first time I've heard that notion. Usually you hear people concerned about rust after a long layoffm
RE: RE: I don't think anyone wants to throw the win back  
Mike from Ohio : 10/26/2015 9:12 am : link
In comment 12576621 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12576613 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


...
The win was huge, and all 3 units had good moments yesterday. However, there were also times both the offense and the defense looked overmatched against a team without its QB and its best WR. On top of last week's game, it didn't calm a lot of fears that this team isn't very good....



Mike - two things here...

One - that offense was missing it's starting LT and #2 WR. #1 and #3 WRs were on the field, but injured, in a short week. The defense it was facing was at full strength, and was strong in particular in the front 7, which posed a specific matchup difficulty due to the injuries.

Two - the NFL is a week to week game. I was disgusted with the game against Philly, but the real risk here, in a short week following that blowout, was that the Giants would come in wobbly and fail. That didn't happen.

IMO, if Randle had held on to that ball and scored, the tone of the board would have changed 100%, purely on the basis of the final score.


I don't disagree, but it is hard to evaluate the Giants considering who is injured and who is not, since there is a good chance Beckham and Randle will be battling their leg issues all year, and we all know more injuries are just around the corner, because, well...these are the Giants.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/26/2015 9:13 am : link
now that just proves you will pick anything to be a fucking contrarian about.

A team with two weeks rest against a team on a short week and you are going to play the "they are rusty" card?

Get the fuck out of here.
And let's not forget  
Headhunter : 10/26/2015 9:14 am : link
yesterday's win will cost us drafting position down the line and there is nothing more important than the draft
Mike - absolutely true - which is why this is biding time  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 9:16 am : link
In Week 16 - we could easily be done. One or both of those guys could be done for the year (knock on wood).

Or - we could have held on, around .500, and guys could start getting healthy and the team gelling at just the right time.

For those who are unfamiliar with the story, I refer you to the 2007 and 2011 championship runs.

I'm not saying we're winning a SB this year, just that this is the NFL now. Stay alive, get in to the playoffs, try to stay healthy and build up enough momentum to make a run.
RE: And let's not forget  
Mike from Ohio : 10/26/2015 9:16 am : link
In comment 12576642 Headhunter said:
Quote:
yesterday's win will cost us drafting position down the line and there is nothing more important than the draft


We need a top 10 pick to lock down a team captain with great measurables and a high motor to play specials on a bad hamstring when he comes off pup in week 8.
To elaborate further on what jcn and Headhunter pointed out:  
Steve Filipowicz : 10/26/2015 9:17 am : link
On offense, we have 5 players at new positions on the OL, with a rookie at LT and no Cruz, in fact no consistent Slot WR. Takes time for an OL to mesh together.

ON Defense, new DE in Selvie and new starting DT in Kuhn, new LB in Thomas/Casillas and two new Safeties, one of whom is a rookie, so that there are 5 new Starters on Defense.

A new P and new KR.

So, in the midst of a big rebuilding process, we're in first place and we have Beatty and, hopefully, Cruz coming back. Plus we have a game off coming up to take a break, have the coaches analyze where we can get better, don't play the Cowboys again in the regular season and can get ready for the final push.

Do we have flaws? Of course, with no pass rush, DEs who cannot consistently hold the edge, LBs who cannot consistently handle end runs or wheel routes to RBs and Safeties who cannot cover TEs; on Offense, Beckham and Randle are hobbled, Donnell lumbers in pass routes, cannot consistently block and fumbles at inopportune times, Tye is a rookie, Schwartz is a good run blocker but not so good pass blocking quick DTs, Newhouse is up-and-down and while the RBs have good speed, none have breakaway speed.

Overall, I'm happy because to be in first place while in the middle of a big rebuild is pretty good IMO.
Giants' Jeopardy for $500: 31-27, 27-24, 20-17, 24-20 and 37-34.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/26/2015 9:17 am : link
Question: What are the scores by which the 2011 Giants won games between Week 4 and Week 14?

The 1986 team won a lot of close games too, but at least they were facing quality opponents. In 2011, only the 24-20 win came against a team that finished the season with a winning record (New England), and it was promptly followed by Boley's injury and a month-long defensive swoon.

And still, some fans want style points in October. Weird.

I agree that the Giants look terrible right now. They mostly looked terrible four years ago too. They added a few decent bodies - not stars mind you; we're talking Mike Boley coming back from a hammy, Chase Blackburn returning from his couch and a clueless rookie named Prince Amukamara taking his first pro snaps. Suddenly, everything clicked. How do those additions compare to the possibility of all three top receivers getting healthy, the team's best pass-protector coming off PUP, and a battle-tested Prince returning to the lineup? Yes, the pass rush needs help. Maybe the guys on the roster can can step up as their injuries heal or - in Moore's case - Coughlin's message finally starts to sink in. I won't even start on Jason Pierre-Paul, though the idea of him contributing is less of a long-shot than Blackburn picking off Brady in the Super Bowl.

Granted, none of the positive changes the Giants need may materialize, and the Giants will likely stumble to a .500-ish finish. But Giant fans, of all people, should understand that dominating in October is less important than staying alive until the arrow has a chance to point up.
jcn - Yes and no  
Matt M. : 10/26/2015 9:19 am : link
There is no disputing we are a banged up team and we were semi-rebuilding. However, I always felt this was an interesting season as I felt the division was mediocre. As such, even with injuries and rebuilding, we have (and I always maintained this) an excellent chance to win the division. I don't think we are a lesser team than Dallas or Philadelphia and we have the best QB in the division and one of the best offensive weapons in the league in Beckham.

I still firmly believe, in this division, without our remaining schedule, this is a team that could/should win 9-10 games, which very likely could win the division. If we manage 11, by some miracle, I have little doubt we are sitting atop the division. What yesterday did is, despite losses to Dallas and Philly, made us the hunted, which we haven't been for a while. This division, with a 1 game lead, is now ours for the taking.

All that said, it also makes me so angry, still, that we blew those first two games.
RE: LOL..  
chris r : 10/26/2015 9:20 am : link
In comment 12576637 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
now that just proves you will pick anything to be a fucking contrarian about.

A team with two weeks rest against a team on a short week and you are going to play the "they are rusty" card?

Get the fuck out of here.


How badly does it hurt your feelings when someone says something bad your favorite team of millionaires?

And yes, usually for the Giants we worry about rust coming off a break. That's a typical refrain. To say Dallas was sharper because of the break shows nothing but homerism.
Think of this not likely but not entirely unlikely scenario.  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 9:20 am : link
Beatty returns in two weeks to man RT. Cruz returns in 3. Beckham and Randle get healthy.

With Beatty at RT, we have success running the ball. This means less chipping by the TE, so Donnell's play improves. We get better performances by Jennings and Williams, improving play action. With Cruz back, there are three legit receivers on the field and a run game that you have to defend. Beckham sees less double coverage.

You don't think that offense is a tad more dangerous than what we have out there today?
RE: Mike - absolutely true - which is why this is biding time  
Mike from Ohio : 10/26/2015 9:21 am : link
In comment 12576644 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In Week 16 - we could easily be done. One or both of those guys could be done for the year (knock on wood).

Or - we could have held on, around .500, and guys could start getting healthy and the team gelling at just the right time.

For those who are unfamiliar with the story, I refer you to the 2007 and 2011 championship runs.

I'm not saying we're winning a SB this year, just that this is the NFL now. Stay alive, get in to the playoffs, try to stay healthy and build up enough momentum to make a run.


No disagreement at all jcn, which is why I think people love the win but can't get too excited about the game itself yesterday. What you described is sound and reasonable and a reality in today's NFL, but is really hard to get phsyched up about. Mixed emotions.
as for the OP  
chris r : 10/26/2015 9:21 am : link
# 3 is the worrying point.

Are we buying time with mirage wins hiding poor talent for management that has put together consecutive losing seasons and a horrible roster?

If so, that sounds like a losing proposition.
RE: RE: LOL..  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 9:22 am : link
In comment 12576658 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12576637 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


now that just proves you will pick anything to be a fucking contrarian about.

A team with two weeks rest against a team on a short week and you are going to play the "they are rusty" card?

Get the fuck out of here.



How badly does it hurt your feelings when someone says something bad your favorite team of millionaires?

And yes, usually for the Giants we worry about rust coming off a break. That's a typical refrain. To say Dallas was sharper because of the break shows nothing but homerism.


Dallas had the ability to switch QBs and make another couple of changes to their lineup courtesy of the time off.

The Giants played a division game on Monday night.

Only you could see this as a net advantage to the Cowboys. Has nothing to do with homerism, it's common sense.
All sensible fans can agree  
Mike from Ohio : 10/26/2015 9:25 am : link
that the team coming off a bye has an advantage over the team coming off a short week. It seems silly to even have to type that.
I dont think people view  
Headhunter : 10/26/2015 9:25 am : link
the team even if fully healthy being better than good. But if you watch Red Zone and watch all the teams in the NFL, there are no Great teams, just a little better than good including GB & NE
RE: Here's the thing ...  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/26/2015 9:27 am : link
In comment 12576624 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I don't think this is a poorly coached team. I think it's an untalented team. I think the coaching is what is winning us games. Coaching up an undermanned team. We are in year three of a rebuild, in a league that is built to go from worst to first in one off-season. We have the same flaws, essentially, that we had when we started the rebuild.

But at this point, this is our roster. It's just a bummer to me that then Nfc east is so winnable and we make it so hard on ourselves....

I guess I just hope that coughlin doesn't get fired for not being able to bluff his way out of a shitty hand, but I guess that's a conversation for the offseason.

This is our team and I'll root for them like I always do.


THANK YOU BRITT. The main reason I remain apathetic is that this is YEAR 3 of a rebuild -- one that was never sold as a rebuild until this offseason after they failed to fix the roster issues the team had to begin with in 2013.

Britt, I would like to buy you an adult beverage for putting this so succinctly.
RE: I dont think people view  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 9:28 am : link
In comment 12576679 Headhunter said:
Quote:
the team even if fully healthy being better than good. But if you watch Red Zone and watch all the teams in the NFL, there are no Great teams, just a little better than good including GB & NE


No great teams, but a few very good ones. GB, NE, Denver, CIN and CAR have all been playing well. Seattle is warming up now.

But it's the halfway mark - injuries and other changes will make the landscape different at the end of the year. It's not as much about how you start, it's about how you finish, and whether or not you can hang in there until the end. Right now, we're checked off in the 'hanging in there' box, and that's fine by me.
Just some random thoughts...  
Jan in DC : 10/26/2015 9:31 am : link
Going into this season, I thought the only way the Giants would have any success is if Eli Manning played like a HOF all year long. To me, so far, he has not played that way despite having good numbers. Those two early losses, while its true that the defense gave up game winning drives, they had put the offense in a position to win through defensive scores and turnovers. Despite the lack of the pass rush, our defense has been a surprising bright spot this year.

I think our long term success really relies on Eli playing better than he has so far.
Why is everyone here so afraid to admit.  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/26/2015 9:32 am : link
We got a break in facing Dallas now. Please stop comparing our injuries to theirs. It sounds so biased. We aren't missing Eli and Beckham and it's just foolish to compare the two.

No one is apologizing for the win. It's just fair to note that (for once!) we were fortunate when it came to injuries. I think I understood "the point" just fine.
these past 2 games  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/26/2015 9:32 am : link
were measuring stick games, and we got our asses destroyed in one of them and barely squeaked by with a Win against a depleted team in Dallas.

I'm less confident in this team than I was 2 weeks ago. This team has some fatal flaws that just limits the level of competition we can beat (exhibit A: Pass rush).

But we're 4-3 after starting 0-2, we're 2-2 in the division. Our roster is getting healthier for once. If Cruz/JPP/Beatty can give us anything, that's going to lift the talent level of this team a considerable amount.

It's all about the W. And yesterday was a must-win that we won. It was as ugly and unsatisfying as a win against Dallas gets, but we have to take it and move on and try to get better.
Not to mention we've been owned  
Dave M : 10/26/2015 9:34 am : link
By the Cowboys and Eagles of late. They absolutely had to win this game. In my opinion if they lost they had no chance for the division and quite possibly the whole season could've crumbled. I think it's a huge win.
RE: these past 2 games  
Jan in DC : 10/26/2015 9:35 am : link
In comment 12576702 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
were measuring stick games, and we got our asses destroyed in one of them and barely squeaked by with a Win against a depleted team in Dallas.

I'm less confident in this team than I was 2 weeks ago. This team has some fatal flaws that just limits the level of competition we can beat (exhibit A: Pass rush).

But we're 4-3 after starting 0-2, we're 2-2 in the division. Our roster is getting healthier for once. If Cruz/JPP/Beatty can give us anything, that's going to lift the talent level of this team a considerable amount.

It's all about the W. And yesterday was a must-win that we won. It was as ugly and unsatisfying as a win against Dallas gets, but we have to take it and move on and try to get better.


This is exactly how I feel. I'm happy about the win, but not feeling optimistic over the play these last couple of weeks. Especially from the offense. But I believe they can play better and there's room for improvement. I think our getting to the playoffs depends on that improvement.
Someone should tell radar  
dep026 : 10/26/2015 9:35 am : link
how much momentum we had coming in a on a short week right after we got our asses handed to us against Philly.

Amazing how we rode all that momentum and won this week.
Today  
Headhunter : 10/26/2015 9:36 am : link
if we walked into GB, we would lose, today, if we walked into Carolina, we would lose,We went into Phoenix we would lose probably Seattle too. But that is today. The beginning of January, you tell me who is playing for those teams and who we have playing for us and I might feel differently
Far better to win ugly  
Scyber : 10/26/2015 9:42 am : link
then to lose ugly.
If you want to play the should have and would have game  
Scuzzlebutt : 10/26/2015 9:42 am : link
we should have beaten Dallas the first game of the season (with Romo and Dez). We also could have beaten Atlanta in week 2.
Every year people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/26/2015 9:43 am : link
forget that the season is a marathon.

At this point last year, the Cardinals were considered a juggernaut and likely to dethrone Seattle in the West. By the end of the year, they are starting Ryan Lindley against a 7-8-1 division winner.

Speaking of which, the Panthers were that 7-8-1 team. Were people making apologies for them winning a playoff game? No. The goal is to get to the postseason and at least have a chance at the ring, not bitch and moan that squeaking into the playoffs will only result in the horrific prospect of keeping a 2 time SB winning coach and the GM.

Adding perspective that the Giants may not be the best team seems like it is happening without resistance. Again - very few people are calling this team a juggernaut. I, for one, am hoping they stay in the race and can outlast the rest of the division. I will never complain about a playoff berth, and I will never trade in a win for more style points.
Also,  
dep026 : 10/26/2015 9:45 am : link
winning this game also sets us up for two very winnable games the next two weeks. NO is hitting its stride a little, but they are from dominating. TB is well TB.

If we somehow get to 6-3 before NE, things can get pretty interesting.
RE: Far better to win ugly  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 9:47 am : link
In comment 12576743 Scyber said:
Quote:
then to lose ugly.


The driver for this thread was me overhearing a conversation while on line in Dunkin Donuts (for my 25c iced coffee, courtesy of the Giants win).

I was subjected to a 10 min wait, listening to Boomer and Carton (mental note: call lawyer, sue D&D for abuse). There was a Giants fan two people behind me, who said exactly this:

'I think I would rather they had played well and lost than won the way they did'

I shook my head, and really felt like turning around and reminding him how stupid that sounded. On what planet could you justify losing to a Cassel led Cowboys as 'playing better'? And how fucking badly did they play? Did I miss all the INTs? The fumbles? The missed tackles? Does the other team ever get any credit for not playing like shit? Yes - Cassel threw some bad INTs. Guess what? Newhouse gave up some pressures that Beatty or Flowers wouldn't have. Neither of those two guys should be on the field of the starters weren't hurt, so it's not like we can't play the 'yeah, but' game too.
RE: I personally think there's a difference between not appreciating...  
Bill L : 10/26/2015 9:48 am : link
In comment 12576549 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
the win and balancing it vs. the bigger picture.

Saying people want to lose, or give back the win, is a bit of hyperbole.
I don't think it's hyperbole to say that it seems like some people enjoy the flaws rather than the virtues. Largely, I feel, because it offers them the opportunity to say something and get people to look at them.
NO NO NO  
Thegratefulhead : 10/26/2015 9:58 am : link
Please do not make these silly 2007 and 2011 comparisons. I loved the win yesterday and cheered those big plays as much as you, I am happy with a win. YOU ARE NOT a better fan because I still do not believe we are good. I have been watching football a long time, some here longer. Those years, people said things like, They are built for postseason because they can rush the passer, we can't and JPP is not flying to the rescue with 1 hand. I see this team making the playoffs and getting one and done embarrassed. I don't want that but thats what I see. We get in because of our schedule, coach, QB and the state of NFC east and our first playoff game will be against a superior team that exposes us.
Just for kicks, break down Atlanta's and Carolina's record  
Big Blue '56 : 10/26/2015 10:00 am : link
and see what their records easily could have been..Off the top of my head, Atlanta has a 3 point win over a less than mediocre Titans team yesterday..They should have lost to us..

The Panthers were less than stellar against the Eagles. Cam threw 3 picks and they still won..Other games have not been the hallmark of an undefeated team

But you take what you can get and "luck" into and right now we're 4-1 after an 0-2 start and in the lead halfway through the season..

I couldn't care less who wasn't impressed with yesterday..I slept very well and woke up with a smile

RE: Here's the thing ...  
SwirlingEddie : 10/26/2015 10:02 am : link
In comment 12576624 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I don't think this is a poorly coached team. I think it's an untalented team. I think the coaching is what is winning us games. Coaching up an undermanned team. We are in year three of a rebuild, in a league that is built to go from worst to first in one off-season. We have the same flaws, essentially, that we had when we started the rebuild.

But at this point, this is our roster. It's just a bummer to me that then Nfc east is so winnable and we make it so hard on ourselves....

I guess I just hope that coughlin doesn't get fired for not being able to bluff his way out of a shitty hand, but I guess that's a conversation for the offseason.

This is our team and I'll root for them like I always do.


Well said, Britt. In my opinion what Spags has been achieving with this defense borders on the miraculous.
Even as currently constituted (with Prince back)  
Matt M. : 10/26/2015 10:14 am : link
I think this is still the best team of a weak division. Getting this 1 game cushion is huge (although the 2 or 3 game cushion we should have would be nicer). I believe this whether Beatty or Cruz ever play a down.

If Beatty can get on the field and play RT at a decent level, I agree with jcn that it will improve our running game and may prove to free up our TEs a bit more. As for Cruz, I have maintained from the summer that merely his presence will help us. I do not expect him to be anywhere near his old self. But, I don't think he needs to be. I think he needs to be similar to a pre-injury Steve Smith. He needs to run crisp routes and hold on to the ball. He merely needs to run some of those slants and crossing routes to open the middle and draw a LB or S. Presently, teams are sitting 2 S deep a lot of the time because neither our running or passing game has forced them to do otherwise. That can change, which will open up the intermediate and deep routes some.
A win is a win  
JonC : 10/26/2015 10:16 am : link
and one vital fact to not throw away is this team plays its arse off in most games, they show more fight and cohesive determination than we've seen from NYG since the first half of 2012. That's a big positive, establishing a culture of winning and performing with maximum effort shouldn't be overlooked.

A lot of fans aren't knowledgeable, simple as that. Some fans are frustrated by all the injuries and not having several of the best NYG players on the field at all in 2015. A lot of fans are growing impatience with the rebuild process, and watching the team repeat mistakes each week.

Try to enjoy the ride, building a contender is a process and we're smack in the middle of it.
This team is a year away.  
drkenneth : 10/26/2015 10:24 am : link
Another off-season of draft picks and FAs (We should have $$$ to spend) and we should be on our way.

We have some nice young talent.
There was a time in the NFL  
steve in ky : 10/26/2015 10:24 am : link
Where one would often hear; Good teams find a way to win even when they don't have their best games on that particular day.

It wasn't an easy win by any means buy individual players stepped up and made enough big plays when it mattered the most and the team won an important division game to ensure first place. What more can a fan ask for?

I don't know why someone would use yesterday as a negative barometer  
Go Terps : 10/26/2015 10:25 am : link
Dallas is a really good team. Their offensive line is by far the best in the sport and their defense is very solid in the front seven with a strong pass rush from Hardy. In order to beat that type of team you need to manage the game, play smart, and make the most of any opportunity.

Yesterday we saw exactly that. Turnovers for big plays, special teams big plays, and a huge pass completion on third down in the shadow of our goal posts.

They played great yesterday against an opponent that had some significant advantages in a couple areas. What the fuck do some of you people want?

There's another way to look at this season too: we're a cunt hair away from being 6-1.

The imprint of ESPN stupidity...where style points and power rankings matter more than results...is almost total on the football fan.
RE: I don't know why someone would use yesterday as a negative barometer  
rptl530 : 10/26/2015 10:27 am : link
In comment 12576922 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Dallas is a really good team. Their offensive line is by far the best in the sport and their defense is very solid in the front seven with a strong pass rush from Hardy. In order to beat that type of team you need to manage the game, play smart, and make the most of any opportunity.

Yesterday we saw exactly that. Turnovers for big plays, special teams big plays, and a huge pass completion on third down in the shadow of our goal posts.

They played great yesterday against an opponent that had some significant advantages in a couple areas. What the fuck do some of you people want?

There's another way to look at this season too: we're a cunt hair away from being 6-1.

The imprint of ESPN stupidity...where style points and power rankings matter more than results...is almost total on the football fan.


Outstanding post.
The Cowboys front 7 is stacked with Sean Lee back  
cosmicj : 10/26/2015 10:31 am : link
from injury, McClain in there, the Hardy acquisition, Tyrone Crawford, and the two young edge players (Lawrence and Gregory). I think people are remembering the Dallas talent level from early last season and ignoring the upgrades since. In fact, if Romo and Bryant are in there, that sure looks like a genuine Super Bowl contender to me. Which is why getting that win and burying the Boys was so important.
Britt's post...  
ColHowPepper : 10/26/2015 10:37 am : link
Sense a subtle evolution, imo, in Britt's assessment of the team, and his post, containing the following:
Quote:
We are in year three of a rebuild, in a league that is built to go from worst to first in one off-season. We have the same flaws, essentially, that we had when we started the rebuild.


sums up my feelings over the past few seasons to a T. It's not that the victory is not appreciated or to be thrown out, it's that the BODY OF WORK of this FO (and I think you have to assign some responsibility to TC here because he is, by most accounts here, deeply involved in the scouting and selecting of players) has been poor.

The Giants have been struggling with the same talent deficit for four years now. And Reese's makeovers, begun two years late--the body of work in drafts and FA--have failed to materially improve the caliber of talent on the team as a whole. During this period, we have seen teams make themselves over and go from bottom of the NFL heap to near the top, Carolina, Minn, Sea, Cin, Ariz, and other teams consistently maintain their standing as top tier franchises, NE, GB, Denver. That's where I want the Giants to be, Top Tier or on the ascendant. That's what we're looking desperately for signs of, and the evidence is hard to find.

The Giants continue to churn at the mediocre, and it makes it hard to summon deep down enthusiasm.
Seattle, Cincinatti, and Arizona didn't become consistently  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/26/2015 10:39 am : link
good overnight.
But when you look at a team..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/26/2015 10:41 am : link
who has consistently lost top picks to career ending injuries, a rebuild isn't easy to pull off. Nicks, smith, Phillips, Wilson, Jones - all guys out of the league due to injury.
RE: But when you look at a team..  
drkenneth : 10/26/2015 10:45 am : link
In comment 12576997 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
who has consistently lost top picks to career ending injuries, a rebuild isn't easy to pull off. Nicks, smith, Phillips, Wilson, Jones - all guys out of the league due to injury.


This. It's amazing to me that people choose to ignore this.
I am not missing the point at all.  
manh george : 10/26/2015 10:47 am : link
--I simply don't use a flawed team who is missing its qb, andis relying on a mediocrity who handed us much of our scoring, as a great yardstick.

--And I worry a bit when we get killed in the trenches on both sides of the ball. And when we got outgained by a really massive 171 yards. Yeah, some of that is because you don't get the ball after you score on a kr or interception. But still. letting a team average 5.7 yards rushing is scary bad--even in a win, and even if we averaged 5.3 on a lot fewer tries.

--My measuring stick isn't just winning our really godawful division. It's whether we would have a realistic chance in the first round of the playoffs, and unless both our OL and DL begin to show improvement, we won't.

So, yeah, I loved the win, and I root for the team to win the division--of course. And I recognize that we will have more money to spend in FA next year when we aren't holding a slot for JPP. But I can still wish the fundamentals were better, and wonder where our next sack leader will come from, and wonder why management didn't better prepare us at wr for the possibility that Cruz either wouldn't make it back, or wouldn't make it back fully healthy. Or get us a TE.

On the other hand, it's pretty damned impressive that we lead the league in interceptions, without any pass rush and missing so many db's that we hoped would be part of this team--plus Prince for now.

P.S.: Darqua in for Williams looks like a great trade. Williams is done after this year.
.  
JonC : 10/26/2015 10:48 am : link
Got to get some key Giants healthy, and continue to infuse the talent level during the offseason(s).

It does feel like they're spinning their wheels when you consider how many resources they've invested at WR and CB, and continue to be thin or banged up. There are also clear trends in the team being mistake-prone that must get cleaned up, and I ranted about it last week.

The special teams have leaped because the talent involved has been upgraded, the other units are taking longer.
As far as FatMan's valid point about lost top players/draft choices...  
manh george : 10/26/2015 10:49 am : link
I can be wistful about the team I wish we were, without being critical in an overall sense.
Very good post jcn  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/26/2015 10:49 am : link
I especially like #3.

They need some talent to ascend from the depths.

Whether its Darkwa becoming a threat.

Or Bobby Hart becoming a solid cog of the OL.

Or Beatty becoming a good ORT.

Or Victor Cruz coming back healthy.

Or the light turns on for Owa the 2nd half.

They need some people to rise.
So this franchise has lost:  
drkenneth : 10/26/2015 10:50 am : link
#1 WR (Nicks)
#2 WR (Smith, and I will count Cruz)
#3 WR (Maningham- knees were shot)
#1 DE (JPP)
Top young safety (Philips)
3rd round pick at safety (Jones)
1st round RB (Wilson)

That's not to say they haven't made poor personnel decisions (M. Bennett & Linval Joseph).

Our OC/DC need an upgrade as well. We've done that.

Is it really that fucking hard to understand why they are a year or so behind?
george  
JonC : 10/26/2015 10:51 am : link
a fair and balanced post. I'm hopeful the next offseason and another good infusion of talent will fill many of the outstanding holes.
And even Bennett..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/26/2015 10:51 am : link
isn't a mistake given his price tag.
We'll take the win.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/26/2015 10:52 am : link
But I am very concerned about our offense. They look like shit for the most part. Producing ONE TD and once again settling for FGs on multiple occasions in a near must-win game at home against division rival...geez. But a win is a win and we needed this one yesterday.
drk  
JonC : 10/26/2015 10:52 am : link
Again, your content is diluted by your frustration.
You take the win  
Torrag : 10/26/2015 10:53 am : link
It's good to be 4-2. We played well and lost the first two weeks. Now we played poorly and won. It happens. It shouldn't keep you from an unbiased assessment of the game. We weren't very good. The last two weeks we are +7 in turnovers and have a combined 20 points on offense. Pass protection is deteriorating and needs to get back on track. Hold it together until Beatty can reinforce the line. The season is still alive but we have to be better.
RE: I am not missing the point at all.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/26/2015 10:53 am : link
In comment 12577040 manh george said:
Quote:
--I simply don't use a flawed team who is missing its qb, andis relying on a mediocrity who handed us much of our scoring, as a great yardstick.

--And I worry a bit when we get killed in the trenches on both sides of the ball. And when we got outgained by a really massive 171 yards. Yeah, some of that is because you don't get the ball after you score on a kr or interception. But still. letting a team average 5.7 yards rushing is scary bad--even in a win, and even if we averaged 5.3 on a lot fewer tries.



You don't want to use the Cowboys' weaknesses as a measuring stick, but their strength is the OL, and they were blowing the Giants DL off the ball. There aren't really any other teams in the league that can that do that kind of work. I wouldn't look at that as a measuring stick either.
TTH and FMiC  
ColHowPepper : 10/26/2015 10:58 am : link
taking a short cut here:
Quote:

Seattle, Cincinatti, and Arizona didn't become consistently
Ten Ton Hammer : 10:39 am : link : reply
good overnight.

But when you look at a team..
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:41 am : link : reply
who has consistently lost top picks to career ending injuries, a rebuild isn't easy to pull off. Nicks, smith, Phillips, Wilson, Jones - all guys out of the league due to injury.

Hammer, no, not at all, but we're 4 years into this and that is not overnight. That's what is so damning, 4 years in and--against the caliber of teams in the NFL--we seem to be losing ground.

FatMan, true, this is a factor, but these guys would have to be paid, and they are entirely OFF the Giants' Cap, so it's not all a Net Gain/Loss. Further, and this is me:
Smith - let's not make him a HOFer, nice possession receiver, he would have opted for FA had he not been hurt.
Phillipps - would Reese have signed him to a 2nd contract?
Nicks - same question, with VC having just been signed? It was an open debate here which JR would have elected to re-sign, but almost certainly not both
Wilson- hated the pick
Jones - really? Never played a down in NFL. How can you put him in this category other than that this was a tragedy
Great post  
rocco8112 : 10/26/2015 11:05 am : link
The whole league is flawed. Giants win yesterday was a team effort to overcome adversity, than to clinch it with a 100 yard return, wow. When, if ever, has that happened.


Again, great post and frankly a great win. Also, who gives a rats ass who is out for the opposition. Are the boys better with Romo, sure, but it takes nothing away from the win. The Giants have had some brutal injury luck so I will not feel sorry for other teams.

Also, as an aside, look how the Cowboys relied on that line to bulldoze the Giants yesterday. Their team did not look half bad without their franchise QB.

On to NO, time to continue the quest to win the East and get a home playoff game.
Also,  
rocco8112 : 10/26/2015 11:07 am : link
I am not trying to make an excuse for the offense, because something is definitely off, but these last two are divisional games. No one know what will happen in these inter-division wars. The goal is to win, win ugly, win pretty, win by 50, win by 5, but make sure to win. That is what happened yesterday and it put the NYG back atop the division all by their lonesome.
RE: Also,  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/26/2015 11:13 am : link
In comment 12577133 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
I am not trying to make an excuse for the offense, because something is definitely off, but these last two are divisional games. No one know what will happen in these inter-division wars. The goal is to win, win ugly, win pretty, win by 50, win by 5, but make sure to win. That is what happened yesterday and it put the NYG back atop the division all by their lonesome.


This ^^^^
RE: TTH and FMiC  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 11:24 am : link
In comment 12577105 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
taking a short cut here:


Quote:



Seattle, Cincinatti, and Arizona didn't become consistently
Ten Ton Hammer : 10:39 am : link : reply
good overnight.

But when you look at a team..
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:41 am : link : reply
who has consistently lost top picks to career ending injuries, a rebuild isn't easy to pull off. Nicks, smith, Phillips, Wilson, Jones - all guys out of the league due to injury.


Hammer, no, not at all, but we're 4 years into this and that is not overnight. That's what is so damning, 4 years in and--against the caliber of teams in the NFL--we seem to be losing ground.

FatMan, true, this is a factor, but these guys would have to be paid, and they are entirely OFF the Giants' Cap, so it's not all a Net Gain/Loss. Further, and this is me:
Smith - let's not make him a HOFer, nice possession receiver, he would have opted for FA had he not been hurt.
Phillipps - would Reese have signed him to a 2nd contract?
Nicks - same question, with VC having just been signed? It was an open debate here which JR would have elected to re-sign, but almost certainly not both
Wilson- hated the pick
Jones - really? Never played a down in NFL. How can you put him in this category other than that this was a tragedy


We're 4 years into a rebuild? We started right after we won the SB? Our major problem is that we *didn't* start right after - and instead tried to stay with a decaying core (OL, Tuck) for another year. Mistake. Whether that's on the GM, that's on the coaching staff, or some combination of both is up for discussion.

Next - injuries hurt a LOT - they affected our strategy and the outcome. If we knew Nicks was going to fall off a cliff, wouldn't we have drafted another WR? Wouldn't we have spent some money on a TE?

This team is missing two dynamic players - Cruz and JPP. That's two guys who lead the league at one point at their respective positions. JPP would probably have caused a pretty good bidding war, and we were locked in to giving up big money for him this year. And he hasn't seen a single down.

The talent gap isn't quite as wide if you have Cruz and JPP out there. It gets smaller with Beatty out there. And that's just this year, what wasn't easy to forecast. Go a bit further, and if Nicks hadn't been hobbled, what might this offense have looked like? We might not have Beckham, but we might have another playmaker on the D side of the ball in his place.

Having to replace star players on an every year/every other year basis has certainly hurt the core of the team. So did playing at a high level for nearly a decade, and never drafting higher than middle of the pack. Having to pay guys following that championship success, guys getting hurt, sticking with aging players for too long, hurt the team's chances quite a bit.

Now - they're turning the ship around. The question is, with what's available under the cap for next season, and the guys that we've acquired the past couple of years, is the improvement obvious? I don't see how it's not, it's just still inconsistent. You have to wait and see, though, to make the final determination. It's still too soon to tell.
some reason for skepticism  
Thegratefulhead : 10/26/2015 12:16 pm : link
I am not unhappy with the franchise. I do not want anyone fired, I do not want to bench the best QB I have ever had. Please do not lump me in with those mouth breathers but I BRISTLE when the intolerant tools who have decided what it means "TO BE REAL FAN" suggest there is something wrong with to the type of fan I am when I still do not believe this team is GOOD. I am just trying to be objective. They have not beaten good teams, they have given victories away with bad play and decisions. They beat a very weaken team yesterday and it took defensive AND Special Teams score multiple turnovers, having none themselves and the other team was without it's pro QB and receiver. What our are chances in a division game without Eli and Odell?

I am not wishing we lost, I jumped off my couch on the 2 return touchdowns. I AM NOT a lesser fan because this team has to prove something to me before I think they are good. It doesn't make me less of a fan if I see some reasons for skepticism, like giving up 233 rushing yards on 41 attempts for 5.7 yds avg....We could not stop them when we knew it was coming, if there wasn't a fumble on that punt I was worried they were going to tie the game. I am happy we are 4-3 and in 1st place. These are not outrageous reasonable for me to be concerned. TLDR allow reasonable concern about the team and reserve your vitriol for those who want everyone fired every time they lose.
Beating Dallas  
Beezer : 10/26/2015 12:22 pm : link
makes everything right with the world. Even if only momentarily.

WTF cares about the other shit on Monday? WE WON! We beat those motherfuckers. I couldn't give less of a shit who was or wasn't playing.

New York Football Giants W

Dallas Cowboys fourth consecutive L with a couple tough ones on deck and in the hole.

It's a beautiful day. If some of you are unable to enjoy THAT win? Well, I'm afraid you're fucked.

RE: Giants came into the game at a real disadvantage  
DonQuixote : 10/26/2015 1:00 pm : link
In comment 12576629 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Short week, well rested opponent. Lots of players "out" or "questionable".

I would have been happy with a respectable loss so I am very happy for an ugly win.

Get to the bye week at 6-4 and see if the Giants can contend down the stretch. At the start of the year, I would have been very happy with 10-6. I still am - playoffs or not.


exactly
Think about this one for a second - we were a couple of bad decisions  
jcn56 : 10/26/2015 1:02 pm : link
away from sweeping the Cowboys this year. And that first game was long before all of their injuries popped up.
RE: Also,  
DonQuixote : 10/26/2015 1:04 pm : link
In comment 12576761 dep026 said:
Quote:
winning this game also sets us up for two very winnable games the next two weeks. NO is hitting its stride a little, but they are from dominating. TB is well TB.

If we somehow get to 6-3 before NE, things can get pretty interesting.


TB gave the Redskins a game ...
Agreed, wrote this on an other thread  
montanagiant : 10/26/2015 1:05 pm : link
I have yet to see anyone claim
"We are a good team!"

That is what's getting lost on the naysayers, the fact that we were supposed to NOT be a good team given the injuries we have. We were a suspect team even at full strength, to be leading the division at almost 1/2 through the season with the magnitude of key injuries we have is an amazing feat. We played a divisional team coming off a bye on our short week that viewed this as a must win game and beat them by using all aspects of the team. The most encouraging aspect to our win is that we got it without having to depend on our key Offensive players such as Eli and OBJ.

To me this was an encouraging win, one that we can build on as players get back.
RE: drk  
drkenneth : 10/26/2015 1:08 pm : link
In comment 12577068 JonC said:
Quote:
Again, your content is diluted by your frustration.


I'm under no illusion that this is (or was supposed to be) a good team. I agree with you: Arrow is pointing up.
RE: I don't know why someone would use yesterday as a negative barometer  
Bleedin Blue : 10/26/2015 1:14 pm : link
In comment 12576922 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Dallas is a really good team. Their offensive line is by far the best in the sport and their defense is very solid in the front seven with a strong pass rush from Hardy. In order to beat that type of team you need to manage the game, play smart, and make the most of any opportunity.

Yesterday we saw exactly that. Turnovers for big plays, special teams big plays, and a huge pass completion on third down in the shadow of our goal posts.

They played great yesterday against an opponent that had some significant advantages in a couple areas. What the fuck do some of you people want?

There's another way to look at this season too: we're a cunt hair away from being 6-1.

The imprint of ESPN stupidity...where style points and power rankings matter more than results...is almost total on the football fan.


Absolutely right!! We let those fuckers and Atlanta off the hook! I'm not delusional this team has issues, but before this game everyone was saying this was a must win! We win and you have all these people bitching and moaning!!!
RE: RE: TTH and FMiC  
ColHowPepper : 10/26/2015 1:26 pm : link
In comment 12577192 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12577105 ColHowPepper said:...


- We're 4 years into a rebuild? ...
- Next - injuries hurt a LOT - they affected our strategy and the outcome. If we knew Nicks was going to fall off a cliff, wouldn't we have drafted another WR? Wouldn't we have spent some money on a TE?

- This team is missing two dynamic players - Cruz and JPP.

- The talent gap isn't quite as wide if you have Cruz and JPP out there. It gets smaller with Beatty out there. ..., and if Nicks hadn't been hobbled, what might this offense have looked like?
- Having to replace star players on an every year/every other year basis has certainly hurt the core of the team. So did playing at a high level for nearly a decade, and never drafting higher than middle of the pack.
- Now - they're turning the ship around. The question is, with what's available under the cap for next season, and the guys that we've acquired the past couple of years, is the improvement obvious? It's still too soon to tell.


jcn56, I cut out a lot of text to shorten the post. With respect to you, a poster I respect, I think there are good points as well as fallacies in your reply.
1st, the context of my reply to TTH and FMiC (and theirs to my post) was the sentence in Britt's post of being three years into a rebuild and "getting nowhere", when other teams turn it around in a year (editorial license), hence the re-build theme. Now to your points, in order:

- agree that management waited too long to assess realistically its roster (Reese's absurd SB clock being the canary in the coal mine); four years, three years, whatever, it's been a long time of spinning wheels with a mediocre FO when other franchises turn it around much more decisively--the very gist of Britt's line, which I find spot on
- injuries were a factor, but I will stand by my reply to FMiC (their salary is off the books, and this roster is what we have in its place). It's interesting that you use Nicks as Ex. A, because, again as per my post, it was widely believed the Giants would not/could not have paid both Nicks and Cruz; foot injury or no, it is very likely Nicks would have opted for another team's offer (what made Nicks tick that season, still up for debate), so I think that's a major fallacy
- Cruz and JPP, again on the injury front: Giants did not exactly excel last year with JPP for a full year; he's better than our DEs in 2015, true, but which JPP would have shown? Hardly a guaranteed notion. Cruz, a definite factor that has hurt.
- Beatty and the injury factor redux: Green Bay has been decimated for 2 years running, maybe 3, but somehow its roster has draftees (Norman, last night, a 5th round pick, the best corner in the NFL this year? We can only dream) stepping up and maintaining the competitiveness, no, the margin over most other clubs. Our roster has had zero depth and max mediocrity, the consequence of bad drafting and FA moves for four years. Injuries are the apologists' longest running "What ifs?" for a poorly run franchise.
- your last para, it may be turning around, I agree, and we won't know what we have by Week 17. Notwithstanding a turnaround, I believe we continue to lose ground.
jcn 56 don't make sense out there, this is BBI, where sense of almost  
plato : 10/26/2015 1:26 pm : link
any kind is forbidden although everyone is an expert. let em rant and just remember how many are reading blogs, news columns and radios in the parents basements.
jcn 56 don't make sense out there, this is BBI, where sense of almost  
plato : 10/26/2015 1:27 pm : link
any kind is forbidden although everyone is an expert. let em rant and just remember how many are reading blogs, news columns and radios in the parents basements.
If the clock management and down-the-stretch  
Beezer : 10/26/2015 1:30 pm : link
decisions had been more sound, the Giants would be 6-1. Not much of a stretch.

If the record was 6-1 this morning, I have a feeling many would be overestimating, just as I think many are underestimating 4-3.
there are two things that are going to make the Giants better  
Vanzetti : 10/26/2015 1:54 pm : link
1. Injured players getting healthy: OBJ, Randle, Kennard, Ayers, Cruz, Beatty and Prince. That's a lot of talent right there.


2. Young players getting better as the season progresses. Collins has been subpar in pass coverage. Flowers and Richburg have been good at times but inconsistent. Odi has not really gotten going.


For the Giants to make noise in the playoffs, they would probably have to luck out and have all or almost all the injured guys come back strong. That's obviously not likely but it is not impossible either. In the mean time, they have to tread water and keep themselves in a position to qualify for the postseaon


wow  
Thegratefulhead : 10/26/2015 2:38 pm : link
We are a great big bunch of touchy feely dudes pretending to be tough men. Your are satisfied and happy with the win and season......AWESOME. You are happy but still skeptical because you see deficiencies and feel our victories are suspect because of the quality of the opponent. GOOD for you.

Think we suck and want everyone fired... I am sorry this all so hard for you, you are a Giants fan, these are not the Patriot(we kick their ass when it counts) We wont be great every year, If we sneak into the playoffs, bring your popcorn because you might see the most satisfying sports that any fan of any team has EVER seen.

We will never see eye to eye on this, why do we let how others feel get us so upset?
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