Mike Garafolo & #8207;@MikeGarafolo 6m6 minutes ago
Jason Pierre-Paul's contract w/ Giants includes $1.5m in base salary guaranteed, another $1.5m in per-game roster bonuses, source said.
Mike Garafolo & #8207;@MikeGarafolo 5m5 minutes ago
Pierre-Paul has playtime and sack incentives that can get him up to the remaining $8.7m he would've earned on the franchise tender.
Mike Garafolo & #8207;@MikeGarafolo 3m3 minutes ago
Full story coming on Pierre-Paul's contract. Bottom line: if he's active for seven games and hits no incentives, he gets $3m, FA in spring.
If he's active, but isn't performing, he gets $3m.
If he hits his escalators, he makes half of what he had been targeted to make this year, for less than half the games. Not a bad deal.
Coaches want wins, they don't care about the cap
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That's not awkward
Coaches want wins, they don't care about the cap
True, but while they care about wins, JPP cares about money. If they feel he's not ready but JPP differs, it could get awkward.
If he's active, but isn't performing, he gets $3m.
If he hits his escalators, he makes half of what he had been targeted to make this year, for less than half the games. Not a bad deal.
Agreed, seems fair
Guess I was wrong about sacks not being a major part of the deal
Anyway, that sounds like a pretty fair deal for both sides. I like that there are playing time and sack incentives.
Anyway, that sounds like a pretty fair deal for both sides. I like that there are playing time and sack incentives.
Maybe 7 is the min to hit the incentive so that there is not a situation where JPP feels like he needs to get on the field before he is ready
JPP gets $214K each game active (up to 7 G/max of $1.5M). Additional $100K/week for 45% of snaps (200K for 75%, 250K for 80%) - Max of $3.9M
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora 56s56 seconds ago
JPP's sack bonuses kick in at 1/2 sack ($50K) and go up $50K/sack up to 9.5 sacks (worth $1M). Gets $864K trigger at 7.5 sacks...
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora 36s36 seconds ago
If JPP gets 10 or more sacks he hits a trigger worth $7.2M minus whatever he earned in 46-man roster bonuses (that was a max of $1.5M)...
Here's what the NYDN said about timeline:
Who wouldn't?
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In comment 12584904 AJ23 said:
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That's not awkward
Coaches want wins, they don't care about the cap
True, but while they care about wins, JPP cares about money. If they feel he's not ready but JPP differs, it could get awkward.
Except notice it says 7 games. They have 9 left, so the Giants (TC/Reese/Mara) are expecting it to take 2 weeks for JPP to get up to speed.
Anyway, that sounds like a pretty fair deal for both sides. I like that there are playing time and sack incentives.
Likely intentional so that JPP's side doesn't feel pressured to play immediately and doesn't feel animosity if TC doesn't view him as ready until the NE game.
Obviously a win-win if TC thinks he can play before then as it'll give JPP more time to hit the performance incentives.
Awesome that both sides are happy. Go Giants! For all the talk about lack of trust in both sides, this deal hopefully signifies a turning point.
Ummmm, all of us? Haha
Haha it's a fair point, but I don't think the Giants will be benching him to save money if the playoffs are on the line.
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Did he mean 9, or is it just assumed that he is out these first 2 games?
Anyway, that sounds like a pretty fair deal for both sides. I like that there are playing time and sack incentives.
Likely intentional so that JPP's side doesn't feel pressured to play immediately and doesn't feel animosity if TC doesn't view him as ready until the NE game.
Obviously a win-win if TC thinks he can play before then as it'll give JPP more time to hit the performance incentives.
Yeah that makes sense. There are a lot of incentives in here that are not particularly easy to make. But, it would be great if he earns a lot of this money. If La Canfora's details are right, it goes to show that the Giants were the ones with the most leverage. (As we all should have realized.)
That's an awfully big carrot. Whoever thought the Giants had no leverage was living in a different world. You can likely throw out the 80% of snaps incentive for the first 2 weeks he's back, even if he's playing like the old JPP. That'd be a heavy workload...
10 sacks in 7 games? Even in 9 games that would be a stretch.
Maybe it is too hard to measure, but why not incentives for tackles (to incentivize run stopping) or QB pressures (in the event JPP pressures the QB into the arms of another defender)?
So JPP could have a 10 tackle game with 8 QB pressures and not earn any incentive money, but could have a zero tackle, no QB pressure game and pick up a "coverage sack" and get paid?
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That's not awkward
Haha it's a fair point, but I don't think the Giants will be benching him to save money if the playoffs are on the line.
1. TC's not that type of guy
2. JPP agreeing to that incentive structure, shows he trusts TC/Spags.
Maybe it is too hard to measure, but why not incentives for tackles (to incentivize run stopping) or QB pressures (in the event JPP pressures the QB into the arms of another defender)?
So JPP could have a 10 tackle game with 8 QB pressures and not earn any incentive money, but could have a zero tackle, no QB pressure game and pick up a "coverage sack" and get paid?
Nice theoretical, but typically if you're getting 8 pressures, you're going to luck into a sack or two.
And his performance against the run will be paid for via snap count incentives, which is even better because stopping the run is often team/assignment based and the guy that makes the key play (e.g. holding the POA) doesn't always get the tackle. See Moore for an example of what happens when you can't play the run.
Overall, the deal is very fair: it doesn't penalize him further for needing at least two weeks to get into football shape and learn the basics of the defense, which is simply prudent even without the hand injuries. And once he's on the field, his pay is largely based on production.
I dislike tying money to sacks, because sacks are such an imperfect metric, and bonuses based on them can create perverse incentives. On the other hand, most football stats for individual players pretty much suck, so it's not as if there are great alternatives. The best you can really hope is that any bullsh!t, Markus Kuhn-esque sacks JPP gets paid for will be balanced out by plays where he applies key pressure but doesn't get credit for a sack.
Critical element of JPP deal - NYG agree not to put him on NFI list, so contract can't toll. Otherwise may have had to play '16 on this deal
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora 8m8 minutes ago
So now JPP is assured that come 2016, NYG either have to franchise him again, sign him long term or he becomes an unrestricted free agent
In reality it does cap out at under $6mm
if he is active for 7 games, gets 75% of the snaps each week and 6 sacks (all on the high end of my estimation)he will earn 5.75mm
Overall, the deal is very fair: it doesn't penalize him further for needing at least two weeks to get into football shape and learn the basics of the defense, which is simply prudent even without the hand injuries. And once he's on the field, his pay is largely based on production.
I dislike tying money to sacks, because sacks are such an imperfect metric, and bonuses based on them can create perverse incentives. On the other hand, most football stats for individual players pretty much suck, so it's not as if there are great alternatives. The best you can really hope is that any bullsh!t, Markus Kuhn-esque sacks JPP gets paid for will be balanced out by plays where he applies key pressure but doesn't get credit for a sack.
See my previous post about the snap count incentives, which also appears to be the "easiest" way for JPP to earn the money. If he's hurting the team via poor gap discipline and/or selling out against the pass (hi Moore) he won't be playing anywhere near 80% of the snaps.
"Cheap" sacks and near misses on great pressures likely balance themselves out over time.
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My guesstimate of $3M was on target for the base component, but I guesstimated it would top out around $6M. Giants put the full carrot out there.
That's an awfully big carrot. Whoever thought the Giants had no leverage was living in a different world. You can likely throw out the 80% of snaps incentive for the first 2 weeks he's back, even if he's playing like the old JPP. That'd be a heavy workload...
10 sacks in 7 games? Even in 9 games that would be a stretch.
Agreed, I posted much the same yesterday. NYG honoring the full potential of the remaining pro-rated dollars surprised me as well.
Maybe it is too hard to measure, but why not incentives for tackles (to incentivize run stopping) or QB pressures (in the event JPP pressures the QB into the arms of another defender)?
So JPP could have a 10 tackle game with 8 QB pressures and not earn any incentive money, but could have a zero tackle, no QB pressure game and pick up a "coverage sack" and get paid?
It's really not that sack focused. He can earn basically $4 million based on playing time. That's where most of his money will likely be made. Sacks are the easiest to measure impact stat for a DE, so of course they will be part of the incentives.
It is very unlikely he gets the 10 sack threshold, and even hitting the 7.5 sack mark will be very difficult. If he is able to reach those marks, it's safe to assume he is getting QB pressures as well.
I'm assuming all the incentives are during the regular season, is that right or could it include playoffs as well?
Overall, the deal is very fair: it doesn't penalize him further for needing at least two weeks to get into football shape and learn the basics of the defense, which is simply prudent even without the hand injuries. And once he's on the field, his pay is largely based on production.
I dislike tying money to sacks, because sacks are such an imperfect metric, and bonuses based on them can create perverse incentives. On the other hand, most football stats for individual players pretty much suck, so it's not as if there are great alternatives. The best you can really hope is that any bullsh!t, Markus Kuhn-esque sacks JPP gets paid for will be balanced out by plays where he applies key pressure but doesn't get credit for a sack.
I don't think I've ever seen a team incentive in a player contract, maybe as you mentioned it's not allowed?
From what I've seen for defensive players, it almost always breaks down to snaps, tackles, INTs and sacks. Don't think you can include pressures/hurries since they're not official stats. Too late in the season to throw a Pro Bowl appearance escalator in there. Not really sure what else they could have gone with.
What surprised me isn't the use of sacks, but the uneven distribution. He can get 7 sacks and basically earn $1m - that's not a whole lot of money to pay for that many sacks in less than half a season. I'll be rooting my ass off for him to hit the full $7.2m, but you'd have to admit that barring a Winston Justice/Osi type night, that's going to be an uphill battle.
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My guesstimate of $3M was on target for the base component, but I guesstimated it would top out around $6M. Giants put the full carrot out there.
In reality it does cap out at under $6mm
if he is active for 7 games, gets 75% of the snaps each week and 6 sacks (all on the high end of my estimation)he will earn 5.75mm
I'd agree that's a healthy target zone.
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To get 10 sacks?!
Ummmm, all of us? Haha
Agreed, I posted much the same yesterday. NYG honoring the full potential of the remaining pro-rated dollars surprised me as well.
Yea, see ron's post though. We're getting "2011 JPP" if he comes within $1-2M of the $8.7M. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to pay for that type of production!
If he plays 45% of the snaps in a week he gets $100K.
If he plays 75% he gets $300K (100+200)
If he plays 80% he gets $550K (100+200+250)
I would not have assumed that's what it meant, but $550 times 7 games is $3.85M. This matches the $3.9M max he mentions. This means playing time is clearly to driving force of the contract. There is a much bigger incentive for him to play sound football, that should lead to increased playing time, instead of selling out for sacks. The 10 sacks in 7 games seems unrealistic (especially if he isn't hitting the playing time incentives). The 7.5 sack incentive is more reachable, but isn't nearly as big.
That would be tough. It would also be awesome if he hit it
But I'm slightly concerned about a talented, though immature defensive end who's gifted against the run making 50 thousand dollars every time he collects a sack. The man had 77 tackles last year. He's an elite run stopper when he wants to be. I hope he doesn't forget that.
Will that have him thinking sack on every play, even a run? If you remember Osi running upfield as if looking for a sack while a running back was running through his vacated spot, that's what I fear with this contract.
it really doesn't matter what he ends up making this year ..
if he shows he is close to his previous skills
he hits the open market and will get a nice fat contract .
Very strange.
Read the post directly above yours. If he sells out for the QB, he won't be seeing a high % of snaps.
I hope he gets every available penny... And I bet they do too..
Arguably the most likely outcome is that they pay millions for seven games of JAG-like production that they could have gotten from George Selvie.
I like the upside of the deal, and as a fan I think it makes the team much more interesting to watch. Business-wise and cap-wise, though, it only pays off if he's a difference-maker. Ironically, the more the Giants pay, the better this deal ends up looking for them.
So much cash based on a few plays? Bad job by the agent.
Playing time isn't an incentive?
Assuming he surpasses 45% in all 7 games, that's $700,000 + 1.498m = $2.198m
If he gets 8 sacks, I believe that's $400k + $864k trigger = $1.264M
If he gets 7 sacks, that's $300,000.
Realistically, I can't see him getting more than about $3.5 million, and more likely not much more than $2.5 million.
Smart contract from the team's perspective.
Assuming he surpasses 45% in all 7 games, that's $700,000 + 1.498m = $2.198m
If he gets 8 sacks, I believe that's $400k + $864k trigger = $1.264M
If he gets 7 sacks, that's $300,000.
Realistically, I can't see him getting more than about $3.5 million, and more likely not much more than $2.5 million.
Smart contract from the team's perspective.
While I agree 75% will be tough to meet, limitations in the run game? Run defense is the best part of his game (read option plays not withstanding)
I guess he ends up making 4-5 this year
I guess he ends up making 4-5 this year
Right. Bonuses plus base.
Critical element of JPP deal - NYG agree not to put him on NFI list, so contract can't toll. Otherwise may have had to play '16 on this deal
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora 8m8 minutes ago
So now JPP is assured that come 2016, NYG either have to franchise him again, sign him long term or he becomes an unrestricted free agent
"Franchise him again"...not yet seeing the contract, Pat Kerwin was discussing this yesterday. He was hoping that from a FO perspective the Giants would not give up their franchise rights in order to sweeten any deal so JPP would sign
F'em. They will not win when they pull shit like that on players that are supposed to bust their butts for them. They are in store for a whole bunch of business decisions. And they deserve it. I'm checking out until 2016
A lot of people don't like JPP. So they take the fact that he got beaten on some option reads to the extreme that he doesn't play the run well, when in reality he was a damn good edge-setter and strong in pursuit.
I'm waiting for the Giants to unveil a new base 3-4 hybrid defense with JPP as the rush LB.
I'm a little surprised that some of the incentives aren't tied to the success of the defense.
I would like to see him get more than 10 sacks. I wouldn't care if the incentives allowed him to make the whole $14 million for half a season. If he is successful, the Giants will be in the playoffs, and, as we know, if the Giants get to the playoffs, they win it all every 4 years.
F'em. They will not win when they pull shit like that on players that are supposed to bust their butts for them. They are in store for a whole bunch of business decisions. And they deserve it. I'm checking out until 2016
bye.
F'em. They will not win when they pull shit like that on players that are supposed to bust their butts for them. They are in store for a whole bunch of business decisions. And they deserve it. I'm checking out until 2016
They'd have lived up to it, had a 10 fingered JPP shown up to sign the tender. He didn't, blew some fingers off, and here we are.
2. Guy saying JPP is a liability vs run.
3. WideRight - this may be the most ridiculous comment of 2015.
Perform better make more money.
Welcome back Jason!
3. WideRight - this may be the most ridiculous comment of 2015.
This...
If he's active, but isn't performing, he gets $3m.
If he hits his escalators, he makes half of what he had been targeted to make this year, for less than half the games. Not a bad deal.
Agreed. It's done. Let's hope he plays well.
Doesn't seem all that interesting
F'em. They will not win when they pull shit like that on players that are supposed to bust their butts for them. They are in store for a whole bunch of business decisions. And they deserve it. I'm checking out until 2016
I'm literally speechless after reading this. It seriously may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on BBI and that's no exaggeration. Holy crap.
Will be paid his base salary for the 10 remaining weeks, but held on the exempt list until Week 10.
Per Game Active Bonus: $214,000 (7 LTBE)
Weekly Snaps Incentives: $3.85M max, LTBE
45%: $100,000
75%: $200,000
80%: $250,000
Sack Incentives (5.5 LTBE, $300,000)
$50,000 for his first sack (half or full)
$50,000 per sack, max $1M
7.5 sacks: $864,000 bonus
10 sack bonus: $5.7M
The pendulum on this site can swing wildly from pessimism to optimism and back again. I will be really interested to see if the team actually does get healthy over the next few weeks, if they can legitimately get a solid winning record. As I see it, we lost some games we should have won and vice versa. We are not as good as the Cowboys fundamentally, but I think better than the Eagles. Odd thing to say given the past two weeks I suppose.
Ensures JPP plays for the team, under the system, not just for his financial benefit.
JPP's effectiveness is very much tied to Coughlin and Spag's chances of also being effective, which in turn effect's all of their chances at getting a new contract.
In my opinion, I think JPP will play well, he will be the best defensive player on the field for us once he starts to play, no doubt.
Plus the Giants want nothing more then to sign this kid long term. But they have played this very well. Not using the franchise tag on him was very smart because it guarantees if JPP is good, he is ours, what more could have any of us asked, if he stinks, which he won't, then who knows.
If he's active, but isn't performing, he gets $3m.
If he hits his escalators, he makes half of what he had been targeted to make this year, for less than half the games. Not a bad deal.
This is about as fair and reasonable as you could expect. Glad both sides were reasonable.