Reece's defensive picks the past 6 years? Read it and weep.

in the NFL

BBI....

He's a starter.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

if you're expecting more than that out of a 6th rounder then you will often be disappointed...

too early for a poor designation.

...

thoughts on the recent picks:

We traded up to get Collins, so he is a (2), (4), and (7).

The grade for Berhe should be incomplete given that he was a rookie last year, and is on IR for this season.

The grade for Bennett Jackson like Jones should be injured. He had micro fracture surgery, and then tore his ACL. He was actually playing pretty well from all reports before his latest injury.

section. His coverage has been dismal at times and his smarts are lacking.

Yes Reese is the GM but he counts on these guys doing their job and then the coaches developing them.

My biggest beef with this front office is they don't know how to draft a linebacker to save their life. I like Kennard but have been frustrated by the prototypical size 3-4 LB drafted to play in a 4-3 system.

They also undervalue the TE position which has hurt our running game and our redzone ( greenzone ) offense. We need a real TE who can block and threaten in the down field passing game.

Our defense is bad, yes. Mainly because we have below average talent but also because our best pass rusher has been out and Beason can't stay healthy. Not having Prince in the last game hurt a lot. If we have all 3 healthy this would be a much better squad.

In comment 12596352 robbieballs2003 said:

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He's a starter.

AND, he has half a sack.

Haven't had much success drafting Defensive players, at least we can all agree on that. It's hard to blame coaching when you have that many misses drafting defensive talent.

when it appears Ross might have had more input on choices.

Their FA choices, headed up less ably since we lost Gettleman (sp?) to the Panthers, have also declined in effectiveness

It's going to take some time to rebuild via the draft, and they need more bang for their FA bucks.

He has barely played.

In comment 12596383 Rjanyg said:

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Yes Reese is the GM but he counts on these guys doing their job and then the coaches developing them. My biggest beef with this front office is they don't know how to draft a linebacker to save their life. I like Kennard but have been frustrated by the prototypical size 3-4 LB drafted to play in a 4-3 system. They also undervalue the TE position which has hurt our running game and our redzone ( greenzone ) offense. We need a real TE who can block and threaten in the down field passing game. Our defense is bad, yes. Mainly because we have below average talent but also because our best pass rusher has been out and Beason can't stay healthy. Not having Prince in the last game hurt a lot. If we have all 3 healthy this would be a much better squad.

When i bitch about Reese's talent aquisitions its him because he sits at the top of that org.. it may be the scouts ( Ross ) or even Chris Mara.. Who knows, but yea the buck stops with JR.

Eli and Beckham are fun to watch.

In comment 12596392 JonC said:

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when it appears Ross might have had more input on choices. Their FA choices, headed up less ably since we lost Gettleman (sp?) to the Panthers, have also declined in effectiveness It's going to take some time to rebuild via the draft, and they need more bang for their FA bucks.

Agree. I think Reese has returned to being more hands on with the draft..These last few seem to have his stamp on it, yes?

at least 2-3 years to get an idea.

In comment 12596380 Funkhouser said:

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section. His coverage has been dismal at times and his smarts are lacking.

My opinion is that Collins will be an excellent box safety if he is used in that manner.

My hope is that we get a true rangey free safety before next year.

starting and playing Kuhn as much as they do - I think most agree on that. Ayers does a nice job rushing the passer from the inside - that's how he should be used most of the time. Whitlock has had some success rushing the passer - did he even get any snaps on D? How about blitzing a few times on the last drive? Yes, there is risk, but we weren't stopping them all day anyway - would have given Eli more time at the end if they burned us against a blitz. The Spags of 07 or 08 would have dialed up blitzes - very Fewell like called game yesterday. I wonder what the constant is there???

They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know.

...and Hankins is verging on excellent. Other than that I agree we've drafted terribly on defense. Moore looks like another critical 3rd round bust and potentially wasted premium pick.

In comment 12596429 arniefez said:

Quote:

They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know.

The owners have ZERO input on the draft

stay on the field

Curious would you consider Chris Mara's draft input separate from the owners? I often wonder if he is influenced by what 'the family' whispers in his ear. We're all human.

In comment 12596429 arniefez said:

Quote:

They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know.

FALSE

I'll be avoiding BBI until the Wednesday after a loss. The "fire Coughlin, fire Reese, fire Mara, fire Eli" threads are exhausting. It's the same regurgitated crap after every loss.

BTW - It's Reese, not Reece.

If you compare his to guys like Belicick and Newsome. It's right on par.

In comment 12596440 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 12596429 arniefez said: Quote: They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know. The owners have ZERO input on the draft

You must not follow this team very closely b/c even Mara said he votes for picks on WFAN.

In comment 12596453 aimrocky said:

Quote:

I'll be avoiding BBI until the Wednesday after a loss. The "fire Coughlin, fire Reese, fire Mara, fire Eli" threads are exhausting. It's the same regurgitated crap after every loss. BTW - It's Reese, not Reece.

The problem is anyone who is critical of the organization gets lumped in with these numb nuts.

I think Coughlin fucked up managing the clock yet again yesterday, but I don't want Coughlin fired. Unfortunately, there's little I can do to distinguish myself from the crazies othan than saying I don't want him fired.

In comment 12596440 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 12596429 arniefez said: Quote: They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know. The owners have ZERO input on the draft

You don't know that to be true. So don't even act like you do.

In comment 12596451 Torrag said:

Quote:

Curious would you consider Chris Mara's draft input separate from the owners? I often wonder if he is influenced by what 'the family' whispers in his ear. We're all human.

I never understood why this was ever a good idea to begin with. Let the football guys take care of that end. Anyone named Mara or Tisch should stay away from day to day ops type of responsibilities.

how can anyone evaluate Berhe?
Greg from LI : 12:48 pm : link : reply
He has barely played.

And that's why.....when you look at the guys we trotted out there last year and he couldn't crack the lineup.....when he did play, I saw no speed...played small....and for supposedly a big hitter, missed tackles.....yet his name is brought up like he was some sort of starter that was hurt....Remember before the draft, who the two starting safeties were suppose to be?

In comment 12596451 Torrag said:

Quote:

Curious would you consider Chris Mara's draft input separate from the owners? I often wonder if he is influenced by what 'the family' whispers in his ear. We're all human.

If he's an "owner" then sure, as a personnel guy he might have some input..But John Mara? No..That doesn't preclude Mara from generalizing about our needs..But not a draft pick per se..I would be surprised if that was the case. And pissed, quite frankly

In comment 12596409 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 12596392 JonC said: Quote: when it appears Ross might have had more input on choices. Their FA choices, headed up less ably since we lost Gettleman (sp?) to the Panthers, have also declined in effectiveness It's going to take some time to rebuild via the draft, and they need more bang for their FA bucks. Agree. I think Reese has returned to being more hands on with the draft..These last few seem to have his stamp on it, yes?

It feels like it, and recall reading comments in the media that would suggest it as well. Btw, John Mara has a vote on draft picks.

I wish we knew how much a person(s) influences the draft room, the UFA decisions, or if the team should reduce the family business effect of employing a Chris Mara in a vital role, but good luck with that.

I am quite unhappy about that..

Sheesh!

I like the last 2 entire drafts, board falls a certain way, unfair to separate O and D IMO

I can't take someone seriously when they can't be trusted to spell the name of their target correctly.

Did he make any good points?

And Sintim was the worst of all because he was a 3-4 LBer

But you have to consider where a guy is drafted

Williams in the 6th round is actually a quality pick.
Cooper was a high risk/reward guy who could not stay healthy

On defense Reese has actually been snake bitten with injuries: Kenny Philips, TT, Chad Jones, JPP

I think his picks on offense are way more questionable. However, that doesn't make a good "bash Reese" thread because the offense is actually good.

but these threads are getting frustrating. Entirely biased and jaded to the ops opinion. It's like a political blame game.

First, not judging a draft until at least 2 years after is the norm so we have to throw out 2014 and 2015.

Second, why is it just the drafts. You could help (or hinder) your argument when discussing FAs. Who did we sign and/or keep on? For that matter, how about trades? Then again I suppose you are just complaining about his defensive drafts which I suppose is fine.

Third, and most importantly IMHO, this really has no merit unless you compare it to the rest of the league. There are 31 other GMs out there. Justify that at least half the league has drafted better on defense than Reese in the same amount of time. However, you also need to fairly address this against how many defenders they drafted and with what picks. For example, if team 'B' drafted 16 defenders and came away with 8 good ones (in equal draft positions) when Reese drafted 14 and only came away with 4 good ones then you can say team 'B' is better at drafting defensive players.

6th round picks that makes Williams a bad one. If you get a couple of years of competent special teams play, its a solid pick in that round.

I wonder how lower picks like Carl Davis and Henry Anderson are doing, say apples and oranges, but DL is a unit.

Three drafts. We are playing from behind but we are catching up, roster wise.

In comment 12596539 USAF NYG Fan said:

Quote:

but these threads are getting frustrating. Entirely biased and jaded to the ops opinion. It's like a political blame game. First, not judging a draft until at least 2 years after is the norm so we have to throw out 2014 and 2015. Second, why is it just the drafts. You could help (or hinder) your argument when discussing FAs. Who did we sign and/or keep on? For that matter, how about trades? Then again I suppose you are just complaining about his defensive drafts which I suppose is fine. Third, and most importantly IMHO, this really has no merit unless you compare it to the rest of the league. There are 31 other GMs out there. Justify that at least half the league has drafted better on defense than Reese in the same amount of time. However, you also need to fairly address this against how many defenders they drafted and with what picks. For example, if team 'B' drafted 16 defenders and came away with 8 good ones (in equal draft positions) when Reese drafted 14 and only came away with 4 good ones then you can say team 'B' is better at drafting defensive players.

I don't think its that complicated. Just look at the performance of the defense, it is not all coaching or scheme there is no talent there.

I agree to include FA pickups, which is where our best defense player came from .

Really? John Mara has said he has input but if you don't want to believe him Chris Mara owns the Giants and he's been the SVP of Player Evaluation since 2011. It's unlikely anyone has more influence on the Giants roster than Chris Mara. But we'll never know. Even though football is a business unique to itself and not really comparable to a fortune 500 company It is a very difficult spot to have an owner as one of your peers when you're a senior manager. I don't envy Jerry Reese having to deal with that structure and that's before factoring in a control freak head coach who has the other owners ear. If the Giants change GM's the new guy will probably have even less juice. At least Reese has grown up in this environment since 1994 and has the respect of both owners too.

hits on 1st and 2nd rounders.
We need to spend more premium picks on defence and sign a couple top FA.

in section 313

to the Hall of Fame?

It looked like he was a lock to go in 2011-2012.

Oh dear!

Mike in Long Beach said:

Quote:

I think Coughlin fucked up managing the clock yet again yesterday, but I don't want Coughlin fired. Unfortunately, there's little I can do to distinguish myself from the crazies othan than saying I don't want him fired.

When did this happen? I can't think of where the Giants did something poorly that was clock related. Every single other possible thing? Yes. Can you refresh my memory on this?

Obviously, this is just one man's opinion; I appreciate the thoughtful remarks, corrections, etc., be they contrary or similar to mine.

I rarely post anything here, but yesterday was really tough to watch, especially from a franchise with such a rich history, defensively.

I don't see this as a Tuesday rant necessarily, more a moment of clarity from my perspective that led me to look back at the previous drafts and share my thoughts.

I knew it might be ugly, seems all our trips to the Superdome are, as witnessed by a 49-24 blow out by Brees and company in 2011. We all know how that season ended.

And, apologies for misspelling Jerry Reese.

Actually the view from 313 was pretty darn good, I miss the folks I sat with for all those years in Giant's Stadium; it was family.

Go Giants....

In comment 12596574 shabu said:

Quote:

I don't think its that complicated. Just look at the performance of the defense, it is not all coaching or scheme there is no talent there. I agree to include FA pickups, which is where our best defense player came from .

I really don't see how you can put any 1 person under the microscope without comparison. The same goes for the coaching staff when people complain about them. "Coach XXXX needs go" or "What will take for a regime change".

It shocks me that people believe there are 10 Coaches/GMs better than what the Giants have. It's like people don't understand there are 32 other teams in the league and 8 different teams won it all in the last decade. Only 3 have won it all twice in that time; Steelers, Pats, Giants.

Nobody knew the defense was going to be this lacking in health/talent before the year started. The blame game that goes on here after a loss is just nuts!

They are not Jerry Reese's picks
arniefez : 12:55 pm : link : reply
They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know.


short, sweet, and right on the money, IMO. I've been saying this for years.

It's an organizational dynamic, whether its drafting or FA. I'm sure it's fluid from situation to situation, from year to year. I'm not so sure that results are really starting to turn around over the last couple years. seems like the same to me: a lot of potential that we crow about for a year or two, until it turns out the potential isn't being reached. Only time will tell whether the last couple of years is any different.

In comment 12596520 JD in NC said:

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I can't take someone seriously when they can't be trusted to spell the name of their target correctly. Did he make any good points?

I think you missed the memo on "Reece"

Quote:

Nobody knew the defense was going to be this lacking in health/talent before the year started. The blame game that goes on here after a loss is just nuts!

Really? Because we are among the worst in the league for injuries every year. They should have expected poor health.

I haven't been in the camp of those quick to fire TC, or Reese. That said, at some point we need to stop using injuries as an excuse.

We have been completely decimated by injuries 3 years running, most injuries in the league 2 years in a row, and have had more injuries than most of the league for several years running.

That is a pattern and the Giants need to figure out the cause. Nobody put a fucking voodoo curse on them...There is a reason for the injuries.

Every Spring we say that our luck will be better, and every year we are among the worst in the league. Then in November people say "we can't blame, coaches or management for poor performance, look at all the fucking injuries!"

Something is very wrong.

Beason and Prince are known for be perennially injured. we rolled the dice and lost.
Hosley looked like he might have turned the corner. we rolled the dice and lost.
everyone and their brother knew that the DL was going to be weak. Yeah, JPP blowing his hand up didn't help, but it was pretty obvious that even with him, we were thin at starting material and iffy for depth. we rolled the dice and lost.

everywhere you look, there were glaring deficiencies. At least two of the starters had injury history. unforseen shit happens, but much of the defensive woes were known before the season started.

They were moving him to safety and possibly starter in year 2. How does that add up to a pot pick in round 6?

Arnie have an ax to grind?

In comment 12596429 arniefez said:

Quote:

They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know.

Some people can't seem to understand this. TC has a lot to do with the players being selected. Btw, how come his coaching staff can't help players improve ? NE seem to get the best out of their guys. Meanwhile, this coaching staff, seem to make players worse

arniefez
fkap : 2:32 pm : link : reply

They are not Jerry Reese's picks
arniefez : 12:55 pm : link : reply
They are organizational picks with input from the owners, the scouts and coaches. How much input and who really decides who they pick are things we'll never know.


short, sweet, and right on the money, IMO. I've been saying this for years.

It's an organizational dynamic, whether its drafting or FA. I'm sure it's fluid from situation to situation, from year to year. I'm not so sure that results are really starting to turn around over the last couple years. seems like the same to me: a lot of potential that we crow about for a year or two, until it turns out the potential isn't being reached. Only time will tell whether the last couple of years is any different.

(didtatorships can be very creative

should be upgraded to Excellent picks.

We got great value with that one.

on the theory that he's getting a steal.

He fails to consider that they might get injured again.

Anyone?

DaMontre Moore is still younger than a number of rookie draft picks this year! He is "incomplete". Bromley is incomplete.

And i am not taking into account their draft position.

Our team is low on talent and that is on Reece. What did kehl say? Front office does not take into account our system when drafting players and that has hurt.

In comment 12597511 TheShade said:

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Anyone?

In comment 12596384 Gman11 said:

Quote:

In comment 12596352 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: He's a starter. AND, he has half a sack.

AND he gets pushed back 3 yards on running plays
AND he gets no penetration on passing plays
AND the one time the guy blocking him whiffed ... he got HALF a sack. (even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn).

AND nobody on the Giants roster can beat Kuhn out for the starting job. Ain't that a mo-hoppin' shaaaame!

Fixed.

2015

Landon Collins(2): Incomplete
Owamagbe Odighizuwa(3): Incomplete
Mykkele Thompson(5): Injured

2014

Jay Bromley(3): Incomplete
Nate Berhe (5): Injured
Devon Kennard(5): Good
Bennett Jackson(6): Injured

2013

Jonathan Hankins(2): Good
Domantre Moore(3) Poor
Taylor Cooper(5) Poor

2012

Jayron Hosley(3): Poor
Markus Kuhn(7): Poor

2011

Prince Amukamara(1): Good
Marvin Austin(2): Poor
Greg Jones(6): Poor
Jaquian Williams(6): Poor

2010
Jason Pierre Paul(1): Excellent
Linval Joseph(2): Good
Chad Jones(3): Injured
Phillip Dillard(4): Poor
Adrian Tracy(6): Poor

In comment 12597275 BigBlueCane said:

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on the theory that he's getting a steal. He fails to consider that they might get injured again.

You mean like Justin Tuck and Corey Webster?

You're right. Reese should draft players that don't get hurt.

Half the fucking league is hurt.

Think before you post. Is that too much to ask of BBI?