Ok, so what does this mean? I, and a few others on BBI, have written before that the 2013 season messed up the Giants plan because they wanted to be the first host city to have their team in the Super Bowl. The 2012 team's late collapse and blowout losses to Atlanta and Baltimore really showed that the 2011 Championship team needed an overhaul. But because the organization was fixated on the Super Bowl (ie- Reese's Super Bowl clock in the locker room) and deciding to bring back retreads like Aaron Ross and Terrell Thomas rather than get in new blood to try to rebuild the team. The end result was an 0-6 start and a 7-9 season, which if not for all the backup QBs they faced, really was closer to 5-11 or 4-12.
After the 2013 season, the Giants organization decided it was time to go ahead with the rebuild. And since the way the NFL is played is offense first, defense second, they looked at what they had to work with and realized they had Eli still in his prime, so they decided to fortify around him. They rebuilt the offensive line with high draft picks (Pugh, Richburg, Flowers) and signed a high priced free agent (Schwartz). They spent more high picks with Beckham and free agent $$ on Jennings and Vereen. And they pushed out Gillbride and brought in McAdoo. The expectation is that a young OC like McAdoo will need at least a half year to establish his offense, and he's done that. There are still hiccups here and there, but generally speaking the Giants offense is good enough to win NFL games.
So that leaves us with the defense. The Giants spent some money on DRC, knowing that if you can't find pass rushers, you go for cover corners. But ultimately, the Giants defense suffered as the resources were focused on offense. Fewell took the hit last year for the defense failings, and he didn't do a very good job, but he didn't have much to work with. So the Giants, knowing that they would need to hope for turnovers and different schemes, went for Spags to hopefully find a way to make the defense just good enough. They did invest in Collins, but mainly because safety was a glaring need that couldn't be ignored. And again, if you can't find the pass rushers, go for the secondary guys. But look back at what John Mara said in August
| “He’ll be the first to tell you he’s no miracle worker. … He’s got to have the personnel,’’ co-owner John Mara said on WFAN. |
And Spags himself knew he had some trouble too
| “All in all I think we got a long way to go,’’ Spagnuolo said, “but I think the guys are willing to do the things they need to do to get there.’’ |
Ahhh...so what we lack on talent on defense, we make up for in...good intentions!
Anyway, back to the original point here. I think the Giants realized that they were in a 3 year rebuild. Since the NFL no longer has dominant defenses (Seattle's was very good, not great. Not close to the 85 Bears, 86 Giants, 00 Ravens vintage). If you can field a good offense, you can stay in games and have a punchers chance to win. With the QB in place already, the Giants chose to focus there. They gave him a new scheme, a new coach, and some new toys. We saw them score 49 points on Sunday...and lose. Essentially, I think the Giants saw this team as a .500 team, and with the right breaks, can maybe win 9 or 10 games. Hence getting Spags to see if he can get his defense to steal a game or two with turnovers. That plan can work against lesser teams or bad QBs, not so much against guys like Brees, Romo, and Ryan. Of course, his whole pass rush was ruined when his best player blew his hand up and we'll see if he can help at all in the coming weeks.
So if the plan held, they would be in the mix this year, maybe for a wild card. But the idea would be for next year, with cap money to spend, they will go all in for defense (Von Miller anyone?). That leads us to today's trade deadline, and a follow up to my post yesterday about what the Giants should do. The Giants had to have figured that the 2015 division belonged to Dallas. But injuries ruined the Cowboys chances to run away with this thing and suddenly the Giants are staring at first place. So if they decide to go for it, and they know they need to focus on defense this year, and the plan was to get defense next year anyway, that is why it makes sense we see rumors of them looking at Weddle or Young. If they can work with their scouts, see what defensive talent is in the draft next year and correlate it to what a veteran can bring this year...and more importantly...potentially next year as well if they can sign them. That is why is makes all the sense in the world for the Giants to decide to go after defensive guys, provided they aren't giving up too much in the draft. It is going to be an interesting day to see if the Giants make a deal. And if they do, I'd be stunned if it was for offense, unless it's a no brainer.
But I will agree.....the process of getting this team back on track, should have started after the 2011 season....add the disaster of the 2012 draft, and the front office set this team back, several years, to the position we are in this season.....
Go get Von Miller...They are going to have to pay for a pash rush in the off-season.
The Eagles also have the worst QB in the division. Bradford is a bum. I don't think their defense is that amazing either. The Eagles are a bully team in their building and shit the bed on the road. That has been their MO for 40 years. If you get a lead on them, they are dead.
You can have all the cap space in the world, but if your front office doesn't use it on the right players for your system, what good is it?
They're not going to become the seahawks, but they don't need to be a top 5 defense with this QB and this offense. Just hold teams under 20 on a regular basis and you can make the playoffs. I view that as an attainable goal. They need a pass rush. If you can cover and rush, you have the important stuff down.
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That it is not even meaningful to put a timetable on it. Besides CB (when healthy), there is not a position we don't need upgrades. Kennard and Hankins might be the only keepers. We have drafted defensively, but as a thread yesterday showed, we just haven't drafted well.
They're not going to become the seahawks, but they don't need to be a top 5 defense with this QB and this offense. Just hold teams under 20 on a regular basis and you can make the playoffs. I view that as an attainable goal. They need a pass rush. If you can cover and rush, you have the important stuff down.
^ this is what I've been saying all off season. The giants don't need a top 5 (or arguably a top 10) defense. A middle of the pack D would give them a very good chance to get into the playoffs. Unfortunately they can't even seem to be better then a bottom 5 defense...
Since the Giants play the Eagles in that final week, they will need to sweep Washington and then everything could be set up to make the NFC East that final game at the Meadowlands. If the Giants can further shore up their defense leading into the game, I would look forward to Bradford throwing up all over himself and the Giants take the division, and watch Chip tell us that he's not going back to college right up until the press conference when he's announced as the new head coach of USC.
You can't say the "R" word when you sold PSLs. Bad marketing. But the Giants actions and his remarks about what Spags has to work with tells a different story.
Defense has more talent than last year too. We have been missing JPP but he is back in some reduced capacity. But LB situation is better. Obviously this unit lacks overall talent but Giants can invest in FS, a more reliable MLB, decent third CB and a d tackle with the cap space and draft and assuming they sign JPP at a decent contract and keep Ayers I would wager this unit will be a middle pack d which will help immensely.
I think while TE and WR are needs on offense (unless Cruz takes a cut and shows something this year), next year has to be a defensive draft.
I think they are on the right track. Barring a complete collapse the coaches will be back. The JPP, Cruz and Beatty injuries will be used as a justification for one more year
No, JPP would have helped the pass rush, but they needed more. Once he got hurt, they literally had nothing but to hope that Moore would step up (wrong) or OO would be a factor (injured). So you are left with a bunch of DTs trying to rush the passer. Only Ayers has been decent, but he's been hurt too.
New staff but kept the Coach. So coughlin got a free ride till the window years of 2016-2020. I just don't see Coughlin being here for that window.
I think McAdoo and Spags have John Maras faith. I Can see Coughlin retiring this offseason for personal reasons.
Now if they would have retired him before the 2014-2015 season and say
Pepper Johnson was running the team
Would we be more understanding about the teams short comings.
Yup we would be saying this is only his second year.
Getting this d to mid pack should be the goal.
Three or 4 new players get added at right spots (to me its MLB, DT, third CB and an End), you get something out of OO next year and we have to keep ayers and JPP obviously, but people have to keep in mind Giants have some untapped talent on this D. Getting nothing out of OO and JPP missing really hurt.
Giants clearly have fallen behind these franchises here.
The issue with all of this cap room is whether you have faith in Reese in the FA market.
Giants had stud pass rushers, most from Accorsi, that Reese has largely failed to restock meaningfully on d.
You don't restock that. You can only hope to be so lucky.
TE
DE
WLB
MLB
FS
CB3, CB4
Hart might be the long term answer at RG and Beatty could be a short term answer at RT. We could use a quality player on the right side, regardless.
We probably need 1 or 2 WR's after this season. We could use a more dynamic RB. Corners are a major need. We literally have nothing behind DRC and Prince and Prince isn't a lock to return.
The 2016 draft looks very weak. Unless we go "big game hunting" with our projected treasure trove of cap space, I can't see all these holes getting filled this spring. It appears we are probably still 2 years away. It's more like a 5 year rebuild, which is an absolute failure in today's NFL. I'm sure next August, we'll be picked 3rd again behind Dallas and Philly.
TE
DE
WLB
MLB
FS
CB3, CB4
Look at the list you provided. What do you notice are needs in 6 of the 7 slots? Defense. And the Giants haven't make the TE a priority since Shockey left. Boss was a late round pick. Bennett was a one year stop gap, as was Myers. Fells was a solid TE who got MRSA. Donnell is inconsistent with flashes of brilliance and flashes of stupidity. Tye seems like he has some tools. Can they upgrade it? Absolutely. But this is a team which won a Super Bowl with Jake Ballard and Bear Pascoe. The days of having Bavaro and Mowatt on the same team are long gone.
That, combined with a draft philosophy of high ceilings and low floors instead of guys more assured of at least average production also hurt them.
The question that remains to be answered is how much of that was Mara, how much Coughlin, how much Reese. Was Mara advised that we should start rebuilding after the SB and decided to try to stretch out one more campaign? Did Coughlin suggest that we could get by with the aging OL for one more season and to try to use those picks/FA resources on other targets? Was Reese responsible for the tactic of swinging for the fences, knowing full well that the strikeouts were going to hurt (Marvin Austin)? Who has been instrumental in pro personnel decisions since Gettleman departed?
There are so many unknowns that it's difficult to understand where the blame lies. One thing's for sure - the draft philosophy has certainly adjusted, and for the better. The FA acquisitions seem to have improved (minus Schwartz, who if not injured for the duration has disappointed).
The Eli window is rapidly closing - they can afford this season as transition, but they need another solid draft and to absolutely nail FA, because another down season and we're basically fucked.
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rebuild, how come we still have so many holes? By my estimation, we have poor front line personnel (with nothing in the pipeline)at:
TE
DE
WLB
MLB
FS
CB3, CB4
Look at the list you provided. What do you notice are needs in 6 of the 7 slots? Defense. And the Giants haven't make the TE a priority since Shockey left. Boss was a late round pick. Bennett was a one year stop gap, as was Myers. Fells was a solid TE who got MRSA. Donnell is inconsistent with flashes of brilliance and flashes of stupidity. Tye seems like he has some tools. Can they upgrade it? Absolutely. But this is a team which won a Super Bowl with Jake Ballard and Bear Pascoe. The days of having Bavaro and Mowatt on the same team are long gone.
To add, LB is another area in which Reese does not invest - that position has featured FA signings or stop-gaps going back to Accorsi.
Personally - I think the NFL has changed and the priority needs to adjust - it's no longer enough to have very good pass rushing 4-3 ends, because QBs offload the ball too quickly. Since there's so much more passing, DE in a 4-3 has practically been de-emphasized and now there's more pressure on LBs.
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rebuild, how come we still have so many holes? By my estimation, we have poor front line personnel (with nothing in the pipeline)at:
TE
DE
WLB
MLB
FS
CB3, CB4
Look at the list you provided. What do you notice are needs in 6 of the 7 slots? Defense. And the Giants haven't make the TE a priority since Shockey left. Boss was a late round pick. Bennett was a one year stop gap, as was Myers. Fells was a solid TE who got MRSA. Donnell is inconsistent with flashes of brilliance and flashes of stupidity. Tye seems like he has some tools. Can they upgrade it? Absolutely. But this is a team which won a Super Bowl with Jake Ballard and Bear Pascoe. The days of having Bavaro and Mowatt on the same team are long gone.
Agree the defense needs an enema, and this year that is being reflected in their performance. And I agree we can get by with dependable lunch pail types at TE, but Donnell isn't that. He's more of a liability than anything else. I guess what frustrates me the most is the number of holes we have, especially on defense. The clock is ticking on Eli. If he has 4 years left after this season, how many of those will be on a team with a legitimate chance at a Super Bowl? It seems like it'll be maybe 2 years. How many franchise QB's miss the playoffs as often as Eli Manning? We all know the #'s: It's probably going to be no playoffs 6 of 7 years after this season. Essentially, this FO has wasted Eli's prime.
And Matt, you said in part,
work against lesser teams or bad QBs, not so much against guys like Brees, Romo, and Ryan.
The piss-poor Defense ALREADY could have easily won against those QBs as it can be argued that in the final stages of all 3 games, it wasn't the D that really sounded the death knell..So our O did enough to beat all 3 of those QBs..
I hear your point, but our D, which hopefully will improve(for varying reasons discussed on here) down the stretch..Our O should too, imo
This is his prime - the past two years were basically pissed away. I don't make much of 2012 because post-SB years are usually lost, but miscalculations have taken them off target. They need to get back to winning and pronto.
They may no longer have the ability to even command an NFL roster spot, let alone be foundation players.
He is in his walk year and we have no idea whether Randle is a solid pairing with OBJ, or someone you let walk.
Kennard appears like a find when he is healthy, but when is that?
Assume the worst case on just these 4 players, and we are in deep long-term trouble.
RT - If Beatty comes back soon RT becomes less of a need. Although he has a contract coming up I believe.
DT - The interior of the line is constantly getting pushed back. They have not been able to collapse the pocket yet this season.
MLB - Beason has been off/on in that position, Unga I like in run defense in the box but when he has to run or cover he's a huge liability. We need someone who can cover TE's.
CB - We need two CB's. We're always an injury away from Hosely being on the field and thats where we don't want to be. Wade is a straight liability and needs to be replaced now.
FS - We need a ballhawk out there. This is a must in the draft.
WR/TE - Hopefully Cruz can come back and solve this. But we all know Eli loves his TE's and that position has been a ?
I think if you can go get a CB or DT you do it. But if they can make a deal for Joe Thomas you do that as well and deal Beatty. But they need to do something. They have more needs than the draft can provide especially since they waste at least 3 picks on head scratchers every year.
And if we take him at his word he is still doing it. This is what he said this past summer: "I think we'll be really good defensively. I think we're going to surprise people. I think we have five defensive ends that we feel like can play and play at a high level at that position."
The inability of team officials to judge football talent, toughness and durability, and develop players, is sub-par. And you can't build championship teams when that's the case.
This is his prime - the past two years were basically pissed away. I don't make much of 2012 because post-SB years are usually lost, but miscalculations have taken them off target. They need to get back to winning and pronto.
They do, but there's nothing to indicate that Eli's window is closing anymore than Brady's has..We disagree and that's fine..Nothing is assured, but Eli and Brady(save for the knee in 2008) have been among the healthiest QBs over a career that I've ever seen
And if we take him at his word he is still doing it. This is what he said this past summer: "I think we'll be really good defensively. I think we're going to surprise people. I think we have five defensive ends that we feel like can play and play at a high level at that position."
The inability of team officials to judge football talent, toughness and durability, and develop players, is sub-par. And you can't build championship teams when that's the case.
Reese's consistent message always is that he expects his team to compete to win a championship. He has pretty much done that every year since he got here when he does his interviews during training camp. People thought he was nuts in 2007 when he said they can win it all. I think part of that is the Giants culture, that they expect the team to be good enough to win a title. Of course, he said the same thing in 2009 and put up that clock in 2013.
And as I said, 2013 only happened because the Super Bowl was at MetLife. If the game was played down in Miami, I think the Giants don't try to squeeze another year out of Snee and Diehl and plug in a bunch of veterans on one year deals. They wanted to see if they could coax a final championship out of the remaining core of the 2007 and 2011 teams. Getting the Super Bowl hosted in NJ set the Giants back 2-3 years.
I won't stop you, but I don't think it's much of a debate. It's not whether or not it's quickly closing, or that it's closing faster than TB - it's that he's got a finite number of years as a high performer, and we've wasted two of them and working on a third now.
This was a nightmare matchup, anyone who had paid any attention knew the only way the Giants were going to win was in a shoot out or if Brees would throw a few picks. And it damn near happened. 7 TD passes was a bit overkill, but we all knew that Brees was going to go up and down the field on this team.
TE
DE
WLB
MLB
FS
CB3, CB4
Hart might be the long term answer at RG and Beatty could be a short term answer at RT. We could use a quality player on the right side, regardless.
We probably need 1 or 2 WR's after this season. We could use a more dynamic RB. Corners are a major need. We literally have nothing behind DRC and Prince and Prince isn't a lock to return.
The 2016 draft looks very weak. Unless we go "big game hunting" with our projected treasure trove of cap space, I can't see all these holes getting filled this spring. It appears we are probably still 2 years away. It's more like a 5 year rebuild, which is an absolute failure in today's NFL. I'm sure next August, we'll be picked 3rd again behind Dallas and Philly.
I think we are on year 2 of a 5 year rebuild.
So at the minimum you don't think Eli has another solid 5 years or more like Brady? After the usual "anything can happen to Eli physically" disclaimer, is there any thing, clue, indication that Eli can't play a lot longer?
-His arm strength appears to be as strong as ever
-He's the healthiest QB I have ever seen along with Fran Tarkenton
-Brady has lasted this long and expects to play 10 more years(a stretch of course), but Eli can't?
-Peyton at 39 is still playing at a decent level and had there not been the 4 neck surgeries that have obviously impaired his arm strength, I venture to say he would have played at a high level into his '40s
The thing I'm taking issue with is jcn's assertion that Eli's window is "rapidly closing." Even if he only has 4-5 more years of high level play, I would not label that a "rapidly" closing window..
Again and finally(nothing more to really add), there is nothing to indicate that Eli has peaked as a QB, especially in this system, imv..
If I'm in the minority, we will simply agree to disagree..I'll not belabor further and allow my comments to stand, yay or nay
The defense is a very serious concern. Even prior to the Saints debacle, they were near the very bottom in the league. Now they are dead last. I hope I am wrong, but I don't see them breaking out of the bottom 2 or 3 in the whole league this year. That means tons of work in the offseason.
As I mentioned above, I don't think it's just Reese. I think these guys work as a team, and why Mara isn't quick to single out anyone.
Injuries sure played a part, but the draft and FA strategy was largely to blame. Whose decisions they ultimately were, who was driving, that's beyond what the information that we have access to can tell us.
But make no mistake, no playoffs for multiple seasons is absolutely wasting Eli's prime.
Personally - I think the NFL has changed and the priority needs to adjust - it's no longer enough to have very good pass rushing 4-3 ends, because QBs offload the ball too quickly. Since there's so much more passing, DE in a 4-3 has practically been de-emphasized and now there's more pressure on LBs.
So a pass rush would not have helped against Brees. Tell that to Rodgers when Denver's pass rush held him to 77 yards.
Regardless, there's no way they're going to fix this roster and that it's going to be "done" for next season, given the track record of improvement pace and recent years of decision making and their potential competitiveness is again going to be entirely dependent on the division hopefully remaining trash. The defense is a complete disaster talent-wise and they can't just throw all their resources to that defense this offseason, all their cap room and picks, like some want because they have/will have significant holes on offense too -- TE, G, and WR (maybe RB).
Frankly, it's why investing as much in a 34 year old very very good, but not Rodgers-ian QB, no matter how much sentiment was involved, is likely going to end up a big mistake. With this franchise's current improvement pace, Eli's going to be 36, 37, by the time things may be "fixed" and then QB troubles will be realistically be looming (and I don't want to hear about Tom Brady; Tom Brady is already a freakish outlier on the whole).
I think I need to re-define what I mean by rebuild. Maybe transition is a better word. But the bottom line is that I think the Giants plan was to put this team in position to win a Super Bowl in Year 3. Year 1 (2014) was putting in a whole new offense. That was going to have growing pains and take time. Part of this plan was to restock the OL and give Eli weapons. That leads to year 2 (2015), where the Giants are closer to a .500 team, but with the right breaks, can perhaps be in the Wild Card hunt come December. Year 3 (2016), you figure the offense is established, now you go and get your defensive players to improve that side of the ball and make your run. The Giants are pretty much on schedule. What they couldn't see is Dallas get killed with injuries and make the NFC East an open competition, and the Giants are currently in the lead.
So if the plan is to likely go defense next year anyway, and assuming the Giants do not give up too much in trades, they can be in position to start to do their reloading now by bringing in some veterans to help on that side of the ball (again, assuming they will be part of the solution in 2016 as well, no rentals) and see if they can't win the division at 9-7. If all goes to plan, JPP comes back and helps the pass rush. Beatty and Cruz make the offense even better, and you plug in veterans on defense to help out, then you take your chances with Eli in the post season and see what happens. But again, I only make a deal if it's for defense and is for a player who the Giants have in their plan for 2016 anyway.
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but keep in mind they won 2 SBs with that philosophy.
Personally - I think the NFL has changed and the priority needs to adjust - it's no longer enough to have very good pass rushing 4-3 ends, because QBs offload the ball too quickly. Since there's so much more passing, DE in a 4-3 has practically been de-emphasized and now there's more pressure on LBs.
So a pass rush would not have helped against Brees. Tell that to Rodgers when Denver's pass rush held him to 77 yards.
We have no pass rush - I didn't say you don't need DEs, just that they don't have the same impact they used to.
QBs are getting rid of the ball faster - the results you'd have with guys like prime Osi/Tuck/Strahan (a HoFer and two excellent pass rushers) aren't the same today as they were 5-10 years ago. Before, you could get away with less at LB. Now, with greater coverage responsibility, you need faster guys capable of making some plays back there, strong defensive front or not.
And our problem isn't that we don't have Tuck or Strahan out there, it's that we've got guys who should be riding a bench starting. Part of that problem is our one bona fide pass rusher blew himself up on July 4th.
Ok. Here is a question: Does the rebuild include Reese and TC long term?
I would argue that neither should be here much longer so if we aren't contending now then why not cut the cord and start over with a fresh GM and HC so that 2-3 years from now we are all on the same page?
I agree that if there is an oppty to get some good D players now to help us take a shot at the playoffs this year then we should do it. Our 3rd and 4th round picks are generally only good for lousy linebackers and OLineman that never pan out, so let's use them on a player that can actually help now.
But I still ask... if you are setting this team for 2016 and beyond... does that vision include resse & TC?
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Either your'e rebuilding or you're trying to contend. Traditional rebuilds do not involve signing aging running backs like Jennings to decent contracts, trading a pick for a injury prone vet in Beason (and then paying him), and trading up in the draft multiple times. If they really wanted to rebuild the roster they would have tried to shed vets for picks and/or traded down in the draft where appropriate. Instead, they hedged in both directions and what you have is a thin roster with multiple position groups in serious need of talent.
I think I need to re-define what I mean by rebuild. Maybe transition is a better word. But the bottom line is that I think the Giants plan was to put this team in position to win a Super Bowl in Year 3. Year 1 (2014) was putting in a whole new offense. That was going to have growing pains and take time. Part of this plan was to restock the OL and give Eli weapons. That leads to year 2 (2015), where the Giants are closer to a .500 team, but with the right breaks, can perhaps be in the Wild Card hunt come December. Year 3 (2016), you figure the offense is established, now you go and get your defensive players to improve that side of the ball and make your run. The Giants are pretty much on schedule. What they couldn't see is Dallas get killed with injuries and make the NFC East an open competition, and the Giants are currently in the lead.
So if the plan is to likely go defense next year anyway, and assuming the Giants do not give up too much in trades, they can be in position to start to do their reloading now by bringing in some veterans to help on that side of the ball (again, assuming they will be part of the solution in 2016 as well, no rentals) and see if they can't win the division at 9-7. If all goes to plan, JPP comes back and helps the pass rush. Beatty and Cruz make the offense even better, and you plug in veterans on defense to help out, then you take your chances with Eli in the post season and see what happens. But again, I only make a deal if it's for defense and is for a player who the Giants have in their plan for 2016 anyway.
So you think this team can be a true contender next year, if they're "on schedule"? With all the holes that remain? I don't see it. The schedule isn't going to be easy at all (AFC North, NFC North). You know we will be perceived to be 3rd in the East again. You can't count on a long term Romo injury or shaky play by Philly occurring again.
This unfairly impacts on Tom. I do agree that the talent level is rising. I was in the minority who sounded warnings in 09 & 10 that the roster was being hollowed out. The attrition model strategies that Coach and his staff employed were being stretched too thin. The decay was definitively revealed in the crushing loss to the Bengals in '12, the game that was the ending point for the Giants being relevant in the league. Back up a bit. How good a coach is Coughlin? Good enough that he stole a Super Bowl during that downward talent spiral.
The rebuilding is taking place. Finally. But what does that do for Tom? If he thinks he can still coach, his Irish will get up. He won't make it easy for Mara by quitting or retiring . Then, folks, the Giants will need a new HC, who will bring in his staff. McAdoo or, Heaven forbid -Spagnuolo, should not be considered as HC. McAdoo has made the Giants offense simply the King of the Bums, while Spagnuolo's putrid descent into league irrelevance continues. Maybe if the new HC were to be defense heavy, McAdoo might be retained for Eli and continuity sake. Maybe.
Now onto this season, so far. These close losses, as deflating as they are, give testimony to Coughlin's continued excellence coaching a club. Say what? Look at it as them being close enough to be within a pubic hair of victory. Maybe with Brand X on the sideline, the team might have turned that -14 Sunday into -31. Seen Bowles in action? Remember how the intelligentsia announced he was destined for head- coaching greatness? Well there are times he looks lost. I'm sure he will turn out fine, maybe great, who knows? It's not easy, folks.
With regard to the defense, I said during the process that my hope was Pepper would get his chance. Lots of reasons. Great Buckeye, big contributor for the Giants and, more importantly, he studied under Belichick. Instead Tom went with Spagnuolo,understandably perhaps, but tragically. I've followed sports intently for 50 years. I have never seen a more over-hyped figure than Spagnuolo. He gained a reputation, I would say unwarranted, by coming along at the right time with the right defensive line. So much of what is written and said about him is actually pure horseshit. He's alleged to be a Man coach. No he's a zone coach. Payton fired him because he said all he saw on film was loose zone. He is supposed to be a pressures-oriented coach. No he is coverages oriented . In fact does any DC in the league call less pressures, especially against the top-tier quarterbacks?
Coughlin said during his post-game presser that Brees knew exactly where he was going with ball from his pre-snap reads. There was no stealth present at all. No "drawing up plays in the dirt with his finger,"'as we heard heard from AP. Zero. Crent . Nada. You got nothing. And, remember, this is not the Brees of five years ago. Nor does he have Graham, a young Colston, Henderson, Moore. Who is Snead? Sam, Norm, who the hell was that guy?
Fewell had to go, I guess. No problem with that although the sack total and the third-down conversion rate were upper tier in the league. Fewell had 2 top-10 defenses during his five years with the Giants. Again when reasonable people made mention of the injuries and overall talent level that Fewell had to work with, they were pissed on and vilified as excuse makers. So what's going on this year?
To re-cap: Yes the rebuilding job is bearing fruit but too late and not sufficiently to save Coach, who will be fired. Then comes a new HC and the big crap shoot involved.
So if the plan is to likely go defense next year anyway, and assuming the Giants do not give up too much in trades, they can be in position to start to do their reloading now by bringing in some veterans to help on that side of the ball (again, assuming they will be part of the solution in 2016 as well, no rentals) and see if they can't win the division at 9-7. If all goes to plan, JPP comes back and helps the pass rush. Beatty and Cruz make the offense even better, and you plug in veterans on defense to help out, then you take your chances with Eli in the post season and see what happens. But again, I only make a deal if it's for defense and is for a player who the Giants have in their plan for 2016 anyway.
seems like you're trying to reverse engineer the narrative. They committed decent amounts of guaranteed money to several guys on the defense for last year and this year - and were ready to spend a ton on McCourty. IMO, Reese has been in win-now mode every year and he's failed miserably. This roster is littered with his mistakes and we're looking at yet another bottom of the league defense from Reese/Coughlin (under 3 different coordinators). JPP would have helped and he gets a pass for that, but the linebackers and safeties were always going to be below average.
Frankly, it's why investing as much in a 34 year old very very good, but not Rodgers-ian QB, no matter how much sentiment was involved, is likely going to end up a big mistake. With this franchise's current improvement pace, Eli's going to be 36, 37, by the time things may be "fixed" and then QB troubles will be realistically be looming (and I don't want to hear about Tom Brady; Tom Brady is already a freakish outlier on the whole).
The college game has changed so much you can't just part ways with a QB of any age who is competent.
Eli is not the problem but if the Giants or Chargers or Steelers parted way with their QB's it's not like finding a replacement is easy. The college game is not replenishing QB at the NFL level quickly at all.
This organization has drafted horribly for years.
We need a middle linebacker and weakside linebacker, I will be OK with Kennard on the strongside.
We need a free safety type, I am OK with Collins as a strong side safety, hopefully he improves because he has been a disappointment to me.
We need 2 defensive ends, if JPP is one of them, which we should find out soon, then just 1 defensive end.
We need a 3 gap DT, a penetrating DT, who can also play the run.
We need a tight end badly.
We need a wideout.
We need a running back.
Can't get them all, so I am OK at running back for now. The rest is an absolute, other then the possibility of the defensive tackle. Bromley is the question here.
you've got to at least wonder if spags has changed philosophically since 07/08. his reputation as a blitzer heavy, press man was well-earned from his 1st stint here. iirc every game we blitzed over 50% of snaps with some games over 75%. tons of press man at CB. even on 3rd and long
now his personnel situation is so different its hard to say but his approach mirrors PF. i've been surprised how conservative he's been
spags did that vs. the 49ers this year. everyone was playing man vs. the 49ers and kap couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. we mysteriously drop into soft zone and allow easy completions underneath. he looked revived until he played anyone else, and has now been benched
We need an ELITE RB. Not just any RB. We have decent talent at the position. Same with TE. We have a pro there he's just a limited pro, in Donnell. We need a good to great TE not just another body.
Great post Matt. Only thing i'll add is the Giants would have been in better shape today if they don't lose 10-15 solid core vets to career ending injury. About 12 guys went from 2-3 year prime vets to out of football 2-3-4 years later. That has an impact on an NFL franchise. See the Niners? That shit happened to the Giants but over a 3-4-5 year period and maybe not AS sudden...still...ask any team to overcome watching 75-100% of their drafted stock leave the game for good, after 2-3-4 years. It's not an excuse. Giants also made their own bed to an extent...but they they some bad luck work against them too. The Niners won't recover from this spell for at least another year or so. They lost about 1/2 the guys NYG lost but all in one or two off-seasons vs 3-4-5 off-seasons here in NY.
I hope the Giants make a trade for a vet player here. I think they are out-thinking themselves with the whole one player away theory. Any chance you have to add a good player you do it. Maybe that player helps us win one more game this season. Maybe that one win gets us the East. Isn't that worth it? We need to develop a winning formula here again. PArt of that formula involves winning.
The Giants needed to draft A LOT more difference makers on defense. Spending two picks on one player was a waste.
The Giants' defense has quite a few strong "complimentary" players (Ayers, Hankins, Kennard, Prince, Collins, Wynn, Beason -when/if healthy, Thomas, & Bromley) and two potential stars (DRC & JPP* if effective again). The problem is that they have had no impact players on the Dline through 8 games, and injuries to many of the complimentary crew....AND most importantly the depth has been terrible.
Matt is correct - they can and will build the defense through FA this year, and the draft. They have essentially been rebuilding for 2 years now, and might just pull off a division championship this year while doing so.
Yes they did win with Ballard and Pascoe.....but what did they have for WR's?
Conversely, they had to have Bavaro and and Mowatt, because, what did THEY have for WR's?
Donnell did not step up this year.....he made his play of the year, like he had his game of the year last year....Tye is another Donnell waiting for an accident to happen.....we held onto the likes of Robinson too long.....a good GM could have juggled the books somehow, to keep Bennett....instead we have mediocrity at TE.....