With 6 TDs on Sunday, Eli just passed both Joe Montana and Vinny Testaverde on the all time list. His career 276 passing TDs has him 10th in NFL history.
He is 14 TDs behind Johnny Unitas for 9th place and 15 TDs behind Warren Moon for 8th.
He could end up at #7 in TDs (passing Unitas, Moon, and Elway) with #6 another year or so away and around 5 or 6 in yards. He will likely end his career at #6 in passing TDs behind only his brother, Favre, Marino, Brady, and Brees.
By the end of next year he is likely to jump to #8 in yards passing Fouts, Bledsoe, Testaverde, and Tarkenton along the way. Another year or two after that, he should pass Moon and Elway, again for #6 behind the same 5 (Favre, Peyton, Marino, Brees, and Brady), with a shot at actually passing Marino along the way. In the next week or two Peyton will be #1 all time and Brees and Brady will pass Marino in the next year. The last couple of years Eli has started to separate himself from his draft class of Roethlisberger and Rivers, so his spots at about #5 or #6 in those two passing categories are a good bet.
are misleading. He's going to pass players who were clearly better players during their era.
To me, Eli is not a hall of fame QB. He's never been a consensus top 5 player at his position. Hall of famers dominate on a week to week basis.
Great QB but the HOF should be for the elite of the elite and I don't think Eli is in that category.
I disagree, Eli has a QB resume second to no one. He has stared down the best and won and his 2011 season was the greatest by a QB in this pass happy era. Eli carried that squad and he dominated the playoffs actually finishing it all with a title.
He has done all of this in the biggest media market which chews and spits out young QB's. Eli to me is already Canton bound and has time to pad the resume.
Lyle, He and TC would be the only guys I would go to Canton for..If Phil had a shot, I'd go for him as well
Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!
I'll never forget that from '07 ;)
You mean my take on Eli in '07? Oh gawd absolutely..I wanted him gone..As I've said many times, mt complete 180 began with the 38-35 loss to the Pats in the 16-0 season finale
It's beating a dead horse, but he has to win another SB to be a HoFer.
The win percentage is ultimately going to be mediocre for a franchise QB (even if due to factors out of his control) and there's not really enough time to fix his rate stats/change the turnover machine narrative anymore.
It's not fair, but that's how it's going to be for him, especially with how much competition from his era there is going to be.
Isn't the HOF supposed to be for the elite of the elite? In an error of wild passing Eli has thrown over 30 tds twice. Never gone over 5,000 yards.
You cant just use the SBS as his reasoning for getting in. They are team victories and had 1 play gone differently in any of the two seasons they don't win it. Would you still call him a hall of famer had they lost either of those games?
I just don't think he's been dominate enough on a week to week basis to garner hall of fame entry. But I'll be happy for him if/when he gets in. He's a great guy to root for.
But it's not. Look at some of the QBs in there already. If Eli continues on the path he's on - in this offense and with Beckham - his numbers and rings will be overwhelming.
I hope he makes it, but all these 'He's 10th all time', etc. don't mean as much in a pass happy league as it would have 20 years ago.
I think he's a great QB, but HOF worthy? I don't know. Close call, especially with how many people hate him. If he wins another ring, I think he's a lock.
When all is said and done.....Eli, Ben and Philip should all rank Top 10 in both passing TDs and passing yards. They already account for 4 Superbowl wins.
Hard to ever seeing another QB draft class of that caliber.
NFC's number 1 seed, Favre @ Lambeau in subzero temperatures, and finally a 2 minute drive against the league's only 18-0 team.
2011 @ GB, @ SF, NE
Outplayed Aaron Rodgers at Lambeau, got his ass kicked by the league's best defense while playing a flawless game in swamp like conditions, and finally twice beating the BB/Brady duo (with a throw that is arguably one of the greatest the league has ever seen) which has now won 4 titles against teams not named NYG.
Of course it helps to throw a few TDs for a few yards here and there!
But it's not. Look at some of the QBs in there already. If Eli continues on the path he's on - in this offense and with Beckham - his numbers and rings will be overwhelming.
^^^^This
The HOF should be for only the very best players to ever suit up. It't not. It is for them and a lifetime achievement award for really good players.
With the criteria they use for admission, Eli certainly belongs.
I can think of about a dozen quarterbacks he's second to
Isn't the HOF supposed to be for the elite of the elite? In an error of wild passing Eli has thrown over 30 tds twice. Never gone over 5,000 yards.
You cant just use the SBS as his reasoning for getting in. They are team victories and had 1 play gone differently in any of the two seasons they don't win it. Would you still call him a hall of famer had they lost either of those games?
I just don't think he's been dominate enough on a week to week basis to garner hall of fame entry. But I'll be happy for him if/when he gets in. He's a great guy to root for.
If I were only using the super bowls as my argument, there wouldn't be much of an argument.
He was top 5 and 6 in TDs from 2005-06 IIRC. 2008 was highly efficient but lacking in yards. 2009 when everyone thought he was screwed without plax, he continued to remain a top passer, same in 2010. 2011 was the stuff of legends, if you don't consider him top 5ish that year, you're high.
All in all, I don't really care about this argument other than to say I'm certain that voters will recognize the impact this guy made on the game.
Does he belong in the same class of player as Manning, Brady, Favre, etc? Those guys were MUCH better quarterbacks than Eli and it's not even close.
That's what the hall of fame is for. Not guys like Eli, Romo, Big Ben, etc.
On his best days? You bet he does.
But unfortunately his worst days are magnified more than everyone else listed there. I have no idea why that is other than the market he's in and the dislike people have for him for the SD bullshit.
in front of the voters..Just turn on the tape of his two SB runs and leave the room..No one has had two such runs against superior opponents as Eli had, imo
It's unfortunate that the effect of the Coughlin/Gilbride offense
likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
RE: It's unfortunate that the effect of the Coughlin/Gilbride offense
likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
volatile is actually a great word to use as that is the word I'd use to describe the offense he was managing for years.
Just watch the consistent "statistical" seasons you're going to get from Eli over the next few years in a more QB friendly offense. One very similar to the one that Aaron Rodgers has been operating for years.
If he plays another 4/5 years and puts up good numbers he MAY get in
If he does the above and wins another ring he is a lock I think
Not that this is a good barometer but how often has he made the pro-bowl? Once? He's not recognised as being an elite QB and if he gets in the general consensus will be that he did so by padding his resume over a 15year period
Just looked it up. Voted to 2 pro bowls and a 3rd as alternate
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
A lot of incredible highs and a lot of unfathomable lows. I can't think of another quarterback with such wild volatility in performance.
In my mind this is the biggest negative he has going against him. I don't remember ever seeing Montana, Marino, Elway, etc ever playing terrible football as often as Eli does. On his best days he can play with all of them, but their worst days are average or below average days for others. Eli will occasionally play like a guy that doesn't belong in the league. That is hard to ignore when considering his body of work outside of 2007 and 2011.
Just looked it up. Voted to 2 pro bowls and a 3rd as alternate
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
I know you're saying this year, but for reference of how he's viewed in the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl, Eli was 17th last year at the QB position. Four more guys after Andy Dalton would have had to pull out for him to have made it. Think about that.
He's never going to be a lock and probably will be "lucky" to make another one, realistically.
stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Just looked it up. Voted to 2 pro bowls and a 3rd as alternate
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
I know you're saying this year, but for reference of how he's viewed in the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl, Eli was 17th last year at the QB position. Four more guys after Andy Dalton would have had to pull out for him to have made it. Think about that.
He's never going to be a lock and probably will be "lucky" to make another one, realistically.
That was last year. This year at the halfway mark of the season, Eli has over 2100+ passing yards and a 17-4 TD-INT ratio.
Over a full season, that comes out to 4200+ passing yards and 34 TDs to 8 Int.
If you also factor in that he was playing with a fairly young O-line that is going through it's learning curve and not viable compliment to Odell Beckham. In the second half of the season, if the O-line keeps improving and "if" Victor Cruz comes back at some point. I then think it is fair that Eli might surpass his numbers from the first half.
Manning has a resume second to none. His accomplishments can but put up with any QB who ever put on a chin strap n the pro level.
Eli is inconsistent? He became the starter in his second year and this franchise has never looked back. The team also won the East his first year as a starter.
Eli Manning owns the two of the best plays in Super Bowl History. One of these plays is probably the best play ever and it came on a game winning drive in the biggest upset in the history of the game. This alone is a feat that no QB will likely ever match. This drive also needed a TD to win it and Eli is the only QB to deliver the goods when only a TD would get the Lombardi.
Eli has stared down the best and won. He won in the arctic tundra in '07, throwing the ball around like it was 65 and sunny. One of the immortals, Favre, shit the bed and threw the pick that allowed the Giants to win. Eli also got the shit kicked out of him in '11 in San Fran. He just kept coming back for more. These two conference title victories are some of the best QB performances of all time and I do not think there are twelve QB's who have done better in these circumstances. Oh, in 2011 he went through the deified Rodgers and the 15-1 pack as well. Firing third down conversions and hitting a Hail Mary was just another day at the office for Eli.
With all that said we come to the stats argument. I am not a stat guy personally, especially in football where stats mean less in my opinion. That said Eli has the freaking stats. He just cracked top ten ALL TIME in TD's! This is not to be glossed over at all.
Top Ten All Time.
Also, I will end with the fact that the 2011 season was quarterbacking on another level. Eli carried that squad. He set the record for fourth quarter TD's and he had tons of comebacks. Of course he capped it with another comeback drive in the Super Bowl. That postseason he set the all time passing yards record for a playoff. To me that stat is very telling since it shows that in this era of high flying let us make defense illegal pro football. It was Eli Manning who used the passing attack to deliver a title.
Eli has the stats, He has pelts on the wall no other QB can match. and he is not done yet. Shit the guy just threw for six TD's in a losing effort!
He is simply the best.
Let's not discount the 186 consecutive starts the man has made
likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
Where did that shit start? Some idiot poster on BBI, no doubt.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
A lot of incredible highs and a lot of unfathomable lows. I can't think of another quarterback with such wild volatility in performance.
In my mind this is the biggest negative he has going against him. I don't remember ever seeing Montana, Marino, Elway, etc ever playing terrible football as often as Eli does. On his best days he can play with all of them, but their worst days are average or below average days for others. Eli will occasionally play like a guy that doesn't belong in the league. That is hard to ignore when considering his body of work outside of 2007 and 2011.
I am not saying he is as good as him.... but Elway had some pretty low points. wasn't there a time he was benched for someone... maybe Tommy maddox?
RE: RE: It's unfortunate that the effect of the Coughlin/Gilbride offense
likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
Where did that shit start? Some idiot poster on BBI, no doubt.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
I think his point is (mine as well) that under Gilbride, whom you and I both loved, you saw more intermediate to long passes which though conducive to winning SBs, doesn't appear to be Stats friendly like the Rivers and Rodgers systems imo..Obviously, I'd take the former every day over the latter
A lot of incredible highs and a lot of unfathomable lows. I can't think of another quarterback with such wild volatility in performance.
Think Brett Favre. They are actually quite similar.
I agree. I've always thought that Favre is the best comparison. Gunslingers who take risks. When it works out, they are the best, and when it doesn't. . .
eli has a career that would be simulating the likes of romo, rivers, ryan, etc.... and they would all be without SBs.
I had no problem separating from gilbride but absolutley credited him for being an intergal part of us winning 2 SBs. I'll take the INTs, WTF throws, and incompletions since in the end we had 2 if the greatest football years ever.
stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Viewed in isolation, yes. The bar has been raised, however. Incredibly with the year he is having, Eli is the 12th ranked qb in the NFL.
RE: RE: Eli Is Finally Racking Up The Regular Season
stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Viewed in isolation, yes. The bar has been raised, however. Incredibly with the year he is having, Eli is the 12th ranked qb in the NFL.
how does one "rank" QBs. by using an analytical formula? All rankings are meaningless. the fact is out of the 8 games this year, we were in position to win 7. it's unfortunate we won won 4 of those. in the 3 losses, eli has played a part in the loss but also was a reason why we there to begin with.
Why do people forget the fact that he's not competing
against Peyton or Brady. Both will likely already be in the HOF by the time Eli retires or shortly thereafter. A player is not eligible until 5 years after retirement. If memory serves, 4-7 players can be entered every year.
His competition; Brees (maybe), Big Ben, and Phillip Rivers. This is just considering first ballot btw. Brees is going. Big Ben a possibility (2 rings but no MVPs). Rivers, so far I doubt it.
It's been said before but he has 2 SB MVPs (not just the rings). Only 5 QBs in NFL history have done this (Montana has 3). 3 are already in and Brady makes 4 (with 3 SB MVPs). When he's done he will be top 10 in passing yards (likely several spots higher) and already top 10 in TDs (also likely much higher). Currently more than Big Ben or Rivers.
Oh, and, Eli is now in a QB friendly offense and he's proving it by putting up some of the best numbers of his career. Anyone that doesn't agree with that at this point is in denial. A west coast system will continue to increase his yardage and touchdowns, decrease his interceptions, and reduce his chances of getting injured. Yes getting the ball out quicker does all of those things. He's accomplishing that after many said he couldn't handle a west coast style offense.
Now pending a rape charge, drug bust, murder, or some other thing that could make the NFL look bad (highly unlikely from Eli), how in the hell can he not be going to Canton?!?!?!?
Just looked it up. Voted to 2 pro bowls and a 3rd as alternate
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
I know you're saying this year, but for reference of how he's viewed in the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl, Eli was 17th last year at the QB position. Four more guys after Andy Dalton would have had to pull out for him to have made it. Think about that.
He's never going to be a lock and probably will be "lucky" to make another one, realistically.
That was last year. This year at the halfway mark of the season, Eli has over 2100+ passing yards and a 17-4 TD-INT ratio.
Over a full season, that comes out to 4200+ passing yards and 34 TDs to 8 Int.
If you also factor in that he was playing with a fairly young O-line that is going through it's learning curve and not viable compliment to Odell Beckham. In the second half of the season, if the O-line keeps improving and "if" Victor Cruz comes back at some point. I then think it is fair that Eli might surpass his numbers from the first half.
I'm not arguing stats.
My point is that the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest of sorts and Eli isn't going win those often, given how the vote breaks down. Last year, when 16 QBs were ahead of him, when a then-reviled Andy Dalton was even four spots ahead of him, is solid evidence of that.
RE: RE: RE: Eli Is Finally Racking Up The Regular Season
stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Viewed in isolation, yes. The bar has been raised, however. Incredibly with the year he is having, Eli is the 12th ranked qb in the NFL.
how does one "rank" QBs. by using an analytical formula? All rankings are meaningless. the fact is out of the 8 games this year, we were in position to win 7. it's unfortunate we won won 4 of those. in the 3 losses, eli has played a part in the loss but also was a reason why we there to begin with.
Jesus Christ, you guys are so touchy.
It's a neutral analytical construct that can be, and has been, applied to all qb's for a few decades now. Some unenlightened individuals may prefer to use it other than to ask you or LTS what you think.
some of these analytical rankings dont even watch how a play unfolds. It just takes the result of the play and plugs into a formula.
I am not sure thats the most ideal way to analyze who is better than who. I am pretty sure one of those qbs who is ranked ahead of Eli was benched for Ryan Mallet. Think about that for a second.
likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
Where did that shit start? Some idiot poster on BBI, no doubt.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
Tim Hasselbeck said the Coughlin/Gilbride offense was the most complicated of the many offenses he had to learn during his career. Is he some "idiot poster on BBI?" It was a tough offense on QBs and WRs, plain and simple.
I love how you classify Warren Moon "as some guy who came from the Canadian League." He was there due to racial stereotypes in football regarding African-American QBs. He had one of the great arms in football history. And Kurt Warner's career was hardly "revived" in nine games - most of which were average at best.
Does he belong in the same class of player as Manning, Brady, Favre, etc? Those guys were MUCH better quarterbacks than Eli and it's not even close.
That's what the hall of fame is for. Not guys like Eli, Romo, Big Ben, etc.
With Eli finally in a QB-friendly system, where he should have high completion % and low turnovers, his reputation is going to improve. His career stats, also. By the time he retires it's probably going to be hard to make an argument against him.
The only requirement for Pro Football HOF is that the candidate has to have been retired for five seasons prior to nomination. Anything else is just opinion.
Despite his accomplishments, he will continue to get zero media props for 2 reasons - he is not Peyton and he forced a trade. That is not changing - ever. he could win 4 SB and won't make a difference.
The guy has now played 24 games in this new stat friendly offense - guess what - he can do it. 47 TDs and 18 ints, including the 5 int SF debacle. He can play in anything
Rivers benefits from playing in great weather where no one gives a shit about football. Ben, with all his success has played with top 10 defenses most of his career. There is a big difference having that behind you.
Eli was/is the QB for NY.
He is the only QB people go out of their way to mention a season of 27 ints. Luck, Rivers, Ben, etc, etc get media excuses all the time about OL woes, injuries, etc - Eli does not. It is the hand dealt and he does not care.
He won 2 SB for us and hopefully a 3rd, but even if he does, people will still bash him.
The SF game is 1 of the best performances ever by a QB - he was hit 29 times in 58 drop backs - no turnovers - ridiculous.
His 1st SB - only time a SB QB facing a TD or lose scenario, drove his team down to win the game. His other 4th qtr possession - 80+ yard TD drive.
2nd SB - every possession the Giants had ended in Pats territory. He gave them nothing. The throw to Manningham is not even attempted by 99% of QB's - they would not risk it. Another 80+ yd 4th Qtr TD SB winning drive.
Does he make ocassional scratch the head plays -absolutely - but he has the balls to continue to push and go for it, where most do not, will not.
Will it get him in the HOF - who knows, is he deserving - likely; regardless, he brought us 2 championships, hopefully more, including 1 that will live forever
Despite his accomplishments, he will continue to get zero media props for 2 reasons - he is not Peyton and he forced a trade. That is not changing - ever. he could win 4 SB and won't make a difference.
The guy has now played 24 games in this new stat friendly offense - guess what - he can do it. 47 TDs and 18 ints, including the 5 int SF debacle. He can play in anything
Rivers benefits from playing in great weather where no one gives a shit about football. Ben, with all his success has played with top 10 defenses most of his career. There is a big difference having that behind you.
Eli was/is the QB for NY.
He is the only QB people go out of their way to mention a season of 27 ints. Luck, Rivers, Ben, etc, etc get media excuses all the time about OL woes, injuries, etc - Eli does not. It is the hand dealt and he does not care.
He won 2 SB for us and hopefully a 3rd, but even if he does, people will still bash him.
The SF game is 1 of the best performances ever by a QB - he was hit 29 times in 58 drop backs - no turnovers - ridiculous.
His 1st SB - only time a SB QB facing a TD or lose scenario, drove his team down to win the game. His other 4th qtr possession - 80+ yard TD drive.
2nd SB - every possession the Giants had ended in Pats territory. He gave them nothing. The throw to Manningham is not even attempted by 99% of QB's - they would not risk it. Another 80+ yd 4th Qtr TD SB winning drive.
Does he make ocassional scratch the head plays -absolutely - but he has the balls to continue to push and go for it, where most do not, will not.
Will it get him in the HOF - who knows, is he deserving - likely; regardless, he brought us 2 championships, hopefully more, including 1 that will live forever
I agree with everything you have said in this post.
RE: RE: RE: It's unfortunate that the effect of the Coughlin/Gilbride offense
likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
Where did that shit start? Some idiot poster on BBI, no doubt.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
Tim Hasselbeck said the Coughlin/Gilbride offense was the most complicated of the many offenses he had to learn during his career. Is he some "idiot poster on BBI?" It was a tough offense on QBs and WRs, plain and simple.
I love how you classify Warren Moon "as some guy who came from the Canadian League." He was there due to racial stereotypes in football regarding African-American QBs. He had one of the great arms in football history. And Kurt Warner's career was hardly "revived" in nine games - most of which were average at best.
Every NFL offense was the most complicated for Tim Hasselbeck judging from his career. Here are the other OC's Hasselbeck played for: Childress, Haley and Spurrier. I have no doubt that Gilbride's offense was more sophisticated than anything those guys had- and considerably more successful.
Racial stereotypes for qb's went out the window with Joe Gilliam and James Harris both of whom were starting qb's in the NFL when Moon was starting college. Vince Evans was in the same class as Moon and got drafted. The following year, Doug Williams was drafted in the first round. Moon's race had nothing to do with him not being drafted.
Warner was benched, replaced by the immortal Marc Bulger and released before the Giants picked him up off the scrap heap. His career path was hardly on an upward trajectory when he came to the Giants. He was immediately made the Cardinals starter after he left here.
stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Viewed in isolation, yes. The bar has been raised, however. Incredibly with the year he is having, Eli is the 12th ranked qb in the NFL.
how does one "rank" QBs. by using an analytical formula? All rankings are meaningless. the fact is out of the 8 games this year, we were in position to win 7. it's unfortunate we won won 4 of those. in the 3 losses, eli has played a part in the loss but also was a reason why we there to begin with.
Jesus Christ, you guys are so touchy.
It's a neutral analytical construct that can be, and has been, applied to all qb's for a few decades now. Some unenlightened individuals may prefer to use it other than to ask you or LTS what you think.
you just forgot one part about your claim of Eli being rated as the #12 QB in passer rating. Two parts actually, first is he's #11.
Second, Kellen Clemens is #1 w/6 attempts, Matt Moore is #2 with 1 attempt, so right away, you already fucked up, he should be #9 according to you.
But then as you look closer, at the rest of the actual starters ahead of Eli? Brady is tops at 115, palmer/rodgers at 110, Dalton 107, Carr 105, Tyrod 103, Rivers 102, Brees 100, Eli 99, Romo 98.
So we have 15 points separating Eli from Brady and even less separating Eli from the rest.
Those single points are the biggest differentiator between all these excellent QBs? And they suggest some big gap between the levels of play of all of them?
Sorry homer but even for you that's just fucking dumb.
These top QBs are all really good. So much so that passer rating is a seriously incomplete way to rank their play.
It's severely flawed as an end all be all. Always has been. Always will be.
It ain't us being touchy, it's you being extremely narrow minded and missing the actual picture..
When it comes to other peoples opinions of him, well frankly Eli doesn't seem to give a hoot. His ability to blow off any negative comments that swarm around him is perhaps his greatest strength as a NY QB.
the mighty Josh McCown (who he had to defeat in a QB comp in the preseason; he wasn't just handed the job outright) after three games. McCown sucked/got injured, so they played hot potato and Warner got it back until he himself was injured.
They brought him back for 2006, as a mentor/stop gap, but he again only lasted three games before being benched due to his poor play and them thinking it was for the best to just get Leinart's feet wet if the QB wasn't going to perform well anyway. He only ended up back on the field because Leinart got injured late in the season.
It wasn't until 2007, really, when Warner started to look recovered, as he'd consistently shine when brought in to relieve the struggling Leinart and it wasn't until 2008 that he actually grabbed their starting job securely and full-time.
It's pretty delusional to claim Coughlin/Gilbride revived his career, honestly.
They shouldn't have a HOF. Not only are his numbers worthy, but the man plays under a microscope that I have yet to see any other athlete play under. Part of if is they way he came into the league, I guess, but man every throw he makes is scrutinized. His ability to persevere through that is so overlooked. He truly is a Giant among men.
Take this for instance, since his bad (but fluky) 2013 season, he has 47 Tds and 18 INTs. He may not be Brady, His brother, or Rodgers, but there isn't a qb not named them that I would take over Eli.
nearly every year we have guys that are ready to annoint first and second year QB's as first ballot HOF'ers based on an extrememly small sample size.
There are people here that will argue with you tooth and nail that Andrew Luck is a sure fire, first ballot HOF'er RIGHT NOW without seeing the rest of his career, and having no idea how it will turn out. I'm not saying he's not, don't want to start that argument here, but who knows?
Meanwhile, the same people will discredit the guy, at every turn, who helped turn our franchise into a champion, doing things we never dreamed our team would do... And now that guy has the statistics to back it up, and they are irrelevant. It used to be, yeah, he has the championships, but not the stats. Now he's getting the stats, and it's some other excuse. But Andrew Luck is going in first ballot, nevermind the guy is throwing 2:1 INT's to TD's right now (something that used to be the argument for keeping Eli out).
Plunkett has 2 rings, and a SB MVP. That's it.
Simms has 2 rings, a SB MVP, 2 Pro Bowls, and a Pro Bowl MVP.
Eli has 2 rings, 2 SB MVPs, and 3 Pro Bowls.
Now I know there is much more than rings and Pro Bowls but when looking at all the stats, Plunkett is nowhere near Eli but Simms is pretty damn close. Eli is still better though.
I can only conclude that Plunkett is used to simply bash Eli when it has no actual basis for comparison.
Obviously my 2:1 INT to TD ratio was hyperbole, but it feels like it.
Plunkett has 2 rings, and a SB MVP. That's it.
Simms has 2 rings, a SB MVP, 2 Pro Bowls, and a Pro Bowl MVP.
Eli has 2 rings, 2 SB MVPs, and 3 Pro Bowls.
Now I know there is much more than rings and Pro Bowls but when looking at all the stats, Plunkett is nowhere near Eli but Simms is pretty damn close. Eli is still better though.
I can only conclude that Plunkett is used to simply bash Eli when it has no actual basis for comparison.
More on Plunkett: Almost every year he threw more picks than TDs. Almost every year!
Different era, but still.......it's why he was benched, then traded.
And his run with the Raiders was a short one.
Lightening in a bottle, so he's not a HOF'er. Longevity is part of it.
nearly every year we have guys that are ready to annoint first and second year QB's as first ballot HOF'ers based on an extrememly small sample size.
There are people here that will argue with you tooth and nail that Andrew Luck is a sure fire, first ballot HOF'er RIGHT NOW without seeing the rest of his career, and having no idea how it will turn out. I'm not saying he's not, don't want to start that argument here, but who knows?
Meanwhile, the same people will discredit the guy, at every turn, who helped turn our franchise into a champion, doing things we never dreamed our team would do... And now that guy has the statistics to back it up, and they are irrelevant. It used to be, yeah, he has the championships, but not the stats. Now he's getting the stats, and it's some other excuse. But Andrew Luck is going in first ballot, nevermind the guy is throwing 2:1 INT's to TD's right now (something that used to be the argument for keeping Eli out).
BB56, he is 24 TDs away from tying John Elway at 7th.
Nope. They can claim he compiled.
Until they count the rings.
Fuck the haters. It's gonna be a fun, vindicating day watching them squirm when Eli gets his gold jacket and bust.
Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!
I'll never forget that from '07 ;)
5- Drew Brees (411) - Hard to see him catch Brees, only 2 year age difference between the two.
4- Tom Brady (412) - How many more elite years does Tom have? He doesn't look to be slowing down.
3- Dan Marino (420) - Eli is 144 TDs behind Marino. If he averages 30 TDs a season and stays healthy, Eli should pass him at the end of 2019.
2- Brett Favre (508) - Too far ahead
1- Peyton Manning (537) - Too far ahead
So if Eli stays healthy and averages 30 TDs a season, he should rank Top 5 by the end of the 2019 season.
Although he does have Philip Rivers (-6), Big Ben (-20) and Aaron Rodgers (-35) behind him also.
To me, Eli is not a hall of fame QB. He's never been a consensus top 5 player at his position. Hall of famers dominate on a week to week basis.
Great QB but the HOF should be for the elite of the elite and I don't think Eli is in that category.
Everyone would have signed up for this on draft day 2004.
Hopefully the Giants can get the talent for at least one more run with one of the best signal callers in NFL history.
By the end of next year he is likely to jump to #8 in yards passing Fouts, Bledsoe, Testaverde, and Tarkenton along the way. Another year or two after that, he should pass Moon and Elway, again for #6 behind the same 5 (Favre, Peyton, Marino, Brees, and Brady), with a shot at actually passing Marino along the way. In the next week or two Peyton will be #1 all time and Brees and Brady will pass Marino in the next year. The last couple of years Eli has started to separate himself from his draft class of Roethlisberger and Rivers, so his spots at about #5 or #6 in those two passing categories are a good bet.
To me, Eli is not a hall of fame QB. He's never been a consensus top 5 player at his position. Hall of famers dominate on a week to week basis.
Great QB but the HOF should be for the elite of the elite and I don't think Eli is in that category.
I disagree, Eli has a QB resume second to no one. He has stared down the best and won and his 2011 season was the greatest by a QB in this pass happy era. Eli carried that squad and he dominated the playoffs actually finishing it all with a title.
He has done all of this in the biggest media market which chews and spits out young QB's. Eli to me is already Canton bound and has time to pad the resume.
Eli takes a back seat to none of his peers.
I'm always curious how these became some of the arbitrary measurements for making the HOF?
Are those the only factors in determining a HOF player?
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Lyle, He and TC would be the only guys I would go to Canton for..If Phil had a shot, I'd go for him as well
Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!
I'll never forget that from '07 ;)
You mean my take on Eli in '07? Oh gawd absolutely..I wanted him gone..As I've said many times, mt complete 180 began with the 38-35 loss to the Pats in the 16-0 season finale
It's not fair, but that's how it's going to be for him, especially with how much competition from his era there is going to be.
5- Drew Brees (411) - Hard to see him catch Brees, only 2 year age difference between the two.
4- Tom Brady (412) - How many more elite years does Tom have? He doesn't look to be slowing down.
3- Dan Marino (420) - Eli is 144 TDs behind Marino. If he averages 30 TDs a season and stays healthy, Eli should pass him at the end of 2019.
2- Brett Favre (508) - Too far ahead
1- Peyton Manning (537) - Too far ahead
So if Eli stays healthy and averages 30 TDs a season, he should rank Top 5 by the end of the 2019 season.
Although he does have Philip Rivers (-6), Big Ben (-20) and Aaron Rodgers (-35) behind him also.
At best he finishes at 5, probably 6 with Rodgers passing him, imo
You cant just use the SBS as his reasoning for getting in. They are team victories and had 1 play gone differently in any of the two seasons they don't win it. Would you still call him a hall of famer had they lost either of those games?
I just don't think he's been dominate enough on a week to week basis to garner hall of fame entry. But I'll be happy for him if/when he gets in. He's a great guy to root for.
That's what the hall of fame is for. Not guys like Eli, Romo, Big Ben, etc.
I think he's a great QB, but HOF worthy? I don't know. Close call, especially with how many people hate him. If he wins another ring, I think he's a lock.
Hard to ever seeing another QB draft class of that caliber.
But Eli has 23 more starts than Rivers.
2007 @ Dallas, @ Green Bay, NE
NFC's number 1 seed, Favre @ Lambeau in subzero temperatures, and finally a 2 minute drive against the league's only 18-0 team.
2011 @ GB, @ SF, NE
Outplayed Aaron Rodgers at Lambeau, got his ass kicked by the league's best defense while playing a flawless game in swamp like conditions, and finally twice beating the BB/Brady duo (with a throw that is arguably one of the greatest the league has ever seen) which has now won 4 titles against teams not named NYG.
Of course it helps to throw a few TDs for a few yards here and there!
yes
^^^^This
The HOF should be for only the very best players to ever suit up. It't not. It is for them and a lifetime achievement award for really good players.
With the criteria they use for admission, Eli certainly belongs.
please list twelve of Eli's contemporaries that have a superior QB resume.
Brady for sure, maybe Ben.
That's it.
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after 10+ years and endless debaate, Eli and Rivers are only 6 TDs apart.
But Eli has 23 more starts than Rivers.
Let's not compare the stats-friendly offenses Rivers has been in compared to around 9 years of a Gilbride offense(not stats-friendly, imv)
You cant just use the SBS as his reasoning for getting in. They are team victories and had 1 play gone differently in any of the two seasons they don't win it. Would you still call him a hall of famer had they lost either of those games?
I just don't think he's been dominate enough on a week to week basis to garner hall of fame entry. But I'll be happy for him if/when he gets in. He's a great guy to root for.
If I were only using the super bowls as my argument, there wouldn't be much of an argument.
He was top 5 and 6 in TDs from 2005-06 IIRC. 2008 was highly efficient but lacking in yards. 2009 when everyone thought he was screwed without plax, he continued to remain a top passer, same in 2010. 2011 was the stuff of legends, if you don't consider him top 5ish that year, you're high.
All in all, I don't really care about this argument other than to say I'm certain that voters will recognize the impact this guy made on the game.
That impact being that of a HOFer.
That's what the hall of fame is for. Not guys like Eli, Romo, Big Ben, etc.
On his best days? You bet he does.
But unfortunately his worst days are magnified more than everyone else listed there. I have no idea why that is other than the market he's in and the dislike people have for him for the SD bullshit.
Stated better than I did in my 5:05 pm post
Just watch the consistent "statistical" seasons you're going to get from Eli over the next few years in a more QB friendly offense. One very similar to the one that Aaron Rodgers has been operating for years.
If he does the above and wins another ring he is a lock I think
Not that this is a good barometer but how often has he made the pro-bowl? Once? He's not recognised as being an elite QB and if he gets in the general consensus will be that he did so by padding his resume over a 15year period
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
In my mind this is the biggest negative he has going against him. I don't remember ever seeing Montana, Marino, Elway, etc ever playing terrible football as often as Eli does. On his best days he can play with all of them, but their worst days are average or below average days for others. Eli will occasionally play like a guy that doesn't belong in the league. That is hard to ignore when considering his body of work outside of 2007 and 2011.
To me, Eli is not a hall of fame QB. He's never been a consensus top 5 player at his position. Hall of famers dominate on a week to week basis.
Great QB but the HOF should be for the elite of the elite and I don't think Eli is in that category.
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after 10+ years and endless debaate, Eli and Rivers are only 6 TDs apart.
But Eli has 23 more starts than Rivers.
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Just looked it up. Voted to 2 pro bowls and a 3rd as alternate
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
I know you're saying this year, but for reference of how he's viewed in the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl, Eli was 17th last year at the QB position. Four more guys after Andy Dalton would have had to pull out for him to have made it. Think about that.
He's never going to be a lock and probably will be "lucky" to make another one, realistically.
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
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In comment 12599903 BitRusty said:
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Just looked it up. Voted to 2 pro bowls and a 3rd as alternate
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
I know you're saying this year, but for reference of how he's viewed in the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl, Eli was 17th last year at the QB position. Four more guys after Andy Dalton would have had to pull out for him to have made it. Think about that.
He's never going to be a lock and probably will be "lucky" to make another one, realistically.
That was last year. This year at the halfway mark of the season, Eli has over 2100+ passing yards and a 17-4 TD-INT ratio.
Over a full season, that comes out to 4200+ passing yards and 34 TDs to 8 Int.
If you also factor in that he was playing with a fairly young O-line that is going through it's learning curve and not viable compliment to Odell Beckham. In the second half of the season, if the O-line keeps improving and "if" Victor Cruz comes back at some point. I then think it is fair that Eli might surpass his numbers from the first half.
Eli is inconsistent? He became the starter in his second year and this franchise has never looked back. The team also won the East his first year as a starter.
Eli Manning owns the two of the best plays in Super Bowl History. One of these plays is probably the best play ever and it came on a game winning drive in the biggest upset in the history of the game. This alone is a feat that no QB will likely ever match. This drive also needed a TD to win it and Eli is the only QB to deliver the goods when only a TD would get the Lombardi.
Eli has stared down the best and won. He won in the arctic tundra in '07, throwing the ball around like it was 65 and sunny. One of the immortals, Favre, shit the bed and threw the pick that allowed the Giants to win. Eli also got the shit kicked out of him in '11 in San Fran. He just kept coming back for more. These two conference title victories are some of the best QB performances of all time and I do not think there are twelve QB's who have done better in these circumstances. Oh, in 2011 he went through the deified Rodgers and the 15-1 pack as well. Firing third down conversions and hitting a Hail Mary was just another day at the office for Eli.
With all that said we come to the stats argument. I am not a stat guy personally, especially in football where stats mean less in my opinion. That said Eli has the freaking stats. He just cracked top ten ALL TIME in TD's! This is not to be glossed over at all.
Top Ten All Time.
Also, I will end with the fact that the 2011 season was quarterbacking on another level. Eli carried that squad. He set the record for fourth quarter TD's and he had tons of comebacks. Of course he capped it with another comeback drive in the Super Bowl. That postseason he set the all time passing yards record for a playoff. To me that stat is very telling since it shows that in this era of high flying let us make defense illegal pro football. It was Eli Manning who used the passing attack to deliver a title.
Eli has the stats, He has pelts on the wall no other QB can match. and he is not done yet. Shit the guy just threw for six TD's in a losing effort!
He is simply the best.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
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A lot of incredible highs and a lot of unfathomable lows. I can't think of another quarterback with such wild volatility in performance.
In my mind this is the biggest negative he has going against him. I don't remember ever seeing Montana, Marino, Elway, etc ever playing terrible football as often as Eli does. On his best days he can play with all of them, but their worst days are average or below average days for others. Eli will occasionally play like a guy that doesn't belong in the league. That is hard to ignore when considering his body of work outside of 2007 and 2011.
I am not saying he is as good as him.... but Elway had some pretty low points. wasn't there a time he was benched for someone... maybe Tommy maddox?
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likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
Where did that shit start? Some idiot poster on BBI, no doubt.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
I think his point is (mine as well) that under Gilbride, whom you and I both loved, you saw more intermediate to long passes which though conducive to winning SBs, doesn't appear to be Stats friendly like the Rivers and Rodgers systems imo..Obviously, I'd take the former every day over the latter
Eli is light years better than Jim. Jim has 164 TD to 198 INTs. Also threw for a career high of 20 TDs once. (Yes, I know it was a different NFL.)
Think Brett Favre. They are actually quite similar.
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A lot of incredible highs and a lot of unfathomable lows. I can't think of another quarterback with such wild volatility in performance.
Think Brett Favre. They are actually quite similar.
I agree. I've always thought that Favre is the best comparison. Gunslingers who take risks. When it works out, they are the best, and when it doesn't. . .
125!
I had no problem separating from gilbride but absolutley credited him for being an intergal part of us winning 2 SBs. I'll take the INTs, WTF throws, and incompletions since in the end we had 2 if the greatest football years ever.
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
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stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Viewed in isolation, yes. The bar has been raised, however. Incredibly with the year he is having, Eli is the 12th ranked qb in the NFL.
how does one "rank" QBs. by using an analytical formula? All rankings are meaningless. the fact is out of the 8 games this year, we were in position to win 7. it's unfortunate we won won 4 of those. in the 3 losses, eli has played a part in the loss but also was a reason why we there to begin with.
His competition; Brees (maybe), Big Ben, and Phillip Rivers. This is just considering first ballot btw. Brees is going. Big Ben a possibility (2 rings but no MVPs). Rivers, so far I doubt it.
It's been said before but he has 2 SB MVPs (not just the rings). Only 5 QBs in NFL history have done this (Montana has 3). 3 are already in and Brady makes 4 (with 3 SB MVPs). When he's done he will be top 10 in passing yards (likely several spots higher) and already top 10 in TDs (also likely much higher). Currently more than Big Ben or Rivers.
Oh, and, Eli is now in a QB friendly offense and he's proving it by putting up some of the best numbers of his career. Anyone that doesn't agree with that at this point is in denial. A west coast system will continue to increase his yardage and touchdowns, decrease his interceptions, and reduce his chances of getting injured. Yes getting the ball out quicker does all of those things. He's accomplishing that after many said he couldn't handle a west coast style offense.
Now pending a rape charge, drug bust, murder, or some other thing that could make the NFL look bad (highly unlikely from Eli), how in the hell can he not be going to Canton?!?!?!?
Eli is number 4 in TDs.
Amongst clear starters playing weekly, only Brady, Rodgers, Carr, and Alex Smith have fewer INTs.
Number 7 in yards
Very few percentage points separating Eli from the top in completion %
Ahhh, that's it, so cute, he put Eli at 11 because of QB rating I bet. Unsurprising yet oh so dumb.
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In comment 12599916 NYG27 said:
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In comment 12599903 BitRusty said:
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Just looked it up. Voted to 2 pro bowls and a 3rd as alternate
I don't think he needs it but I do feel it will help if Eli makes 2 more pro bowls, to be comparable to other Hall of Fame QBs who made 4-5 pro bowls in their career.
In this new QB friendly offense, I think Eli will be a lock for the pro bowl starting with this year.
I know you're saying this year, but for reference of how he's viewed in the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl, Eli was 17th last year at the QB position. Four more guys after Andy Dalton would have had to pull out for him to have made it. Think about that.
He's never going to be a lock and probably will be "lucky" to make another one, realistically.
That was last year. This year at the halfway mark of the season, Eli has over 2100+ passing yards and a 17-4 TD-INT ratio.
Over a full season, that comes out to 4200+ passing yards and 34 TDs to 8 Int.
If you also factor in that he was playing with a fairly young O-line that is going through it's learning curve and not viable compliment to Odell Beckham. In the second half of the season, if the O-line keeps improving and "if" Victor Cruz comes back at some point. I then think it is fair that Eli might surpass his numbers from the first half.
I'm not arguing stats.
My point is that the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest of sorts and Eli isn't going win those often, given how the vote breaks down. Last year, when 16 QBs were ahead of him, when a then-reviled Andy Dalton was even four spots ahead of him, is solid evidence of that.
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In comment 12599937 Trainmaster said:
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stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Viewed in isolation, yes. The bar has been raised, however. Incredibly with the year he is having, Eli is the 12th ranked qb in the NFL.
how does one "rank" QBs. by using an analytical formula? All rankings are meaningless. the fact is out of the 8 games this year, we were in position to win 7. it's unfortunate we won won 4 of those. in the 3 losses, eli has played a part in the loss but also was a reason why we there to begin with.
It's a neutral analytical construct that can be, and has been, applied to all qb's for a few decades now. Some unenlightened individuals may prefer to use it other than to ask you or LTS what you think.
I am not sure thats the most ideal way to analyze who is better than who. I am pretty sure one of those qbs who is ranked ahead of Eli was benched for Ryan Mallet. Think about that for a second.
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likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
Where did that shit start? Some idiot poster on BBI, no doubt.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
Tim Hasselbeck said the Coughlin/Gilbride offense was the most complicated of the many offenses he had to learn during his career. Is he some "idiot poster on BBI?" It was a tough offense on QBs and WRs, plain and simple.
I love how you classify Warren Moon "as some guy who came from the Canadian League." He was there due to racial stereotypes in football regarding African-American QBs. He had one of the great arms in football history. And Kurt Warner's career was hardly "revived" in nine games - most of which were average at best.
That's what the hall of fame is for. Not guys like Eli, Romo, Big Ben, etc.
The only requirement for Pro Football HOF is that the candidate has to have been retired for five seasons prior to nomination. Anything else is just opinion.
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If he bitched out like Eli and pouted until he was drafted by a better team :(
You remember that John Elway did that, too, right?
He's a troll. Best not to engage.
Anytime the players and/or fans get to vote, you get the idea.
Anytime the players and/or fans get to vote, you get the idea.
Matt Stafford made it last year with 18 TDs and 18 INTs. Andy Dalton made it with 19 an 17 last year.
The guy has now played 24 games in this new stat friendly offense - guess what - he can do it. 47 TDs and 18 ints, including the 5 int SF debacle. He can play in anything
Rivers benefits from playing in great weather where no one gives a shit about football. Ben, with all his success has played with top 10 defenses most of his career. There is a big difference having that behind you.
Eli was/is the QB for NY.
He is the only QB people go out of their way to mention a season of 27 ints. Luck, Rivers, Ben, etc, etc get media excuses all the time about OL woes, injuries, etc - Eli does not. It is the hand dealt and he does not care.
He won 2 SB for us and hopefully a 3rd, but even if he does, people will still bash him.
The SF game is 1 of the best performances ever by a QB - he was hit 29 times in 58 drop backs - no turnovers - ridiculous.
His 1st SB - only time a SB QB facing a TD or lose scenario, drove his team down to win the game. His other 4th qtr possession - 80+ yard TD drive.
2nd SB - every possession the Giants had ended in Pats territory. He gave them nothing. The throw to Manningham is not even attempted by 99% of QB's - they would not risk it. Another 80+ yd 4th Qtr TD SB winning drive.
Does he make ocassional scratch the head plays -absolutely - but he has the balls to continue to push and go for it, where most do not, will not.
Will it get him in the HOF - who knows, is he deserving - likely; regardless, he brought us 2 championships, hopefully more, including 1 that will live forever
He's a franchise QB who has been right in the middle of everything for their two Super Bowls.
The entire franchise - everyone - leans on him, as TC has said.
That's pretty damn impressive.
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The only QB with 2 SB wins and not in the HOF is Jim Plunkett. Does anyone think Eli is in the same class as that guy?
Eli is light years better than Jim. Jim has 164 TD to 198 INTs. Also threw for a career high of 20 TDs once. (Yes, I know it was a different NFL.)
The Jim Plunkett who was benched, then traded, then traded again to be a backup?
Remember with Oakland for that first SB, he wasn't even the starting QB to start the season.......
Huge difference, when you look at that resume to be considered a HOFer.
The guy has now played 24 games in this new stat friendly offense - guess what - he can do it. 47 TDs and 18 ints, including the 5 int SF debacle. He can play in anything
Rivers benefits from playing in great weather where no one gives a shit about football. Ben, with all his success has played with top 10 defenses most of his career. There is a big difference having that behind you.
Eli was/is the QB for NY.
He is the only QB people go out of their way to mention a season of 27 ints. Luck, Rivers, Ben, etc, etc get media excuses all the time about OL woes, injuries, etc - Eli does not. It is the hand dealt and he does not care.
He won 2 SB for us and hopefully a 3rd, but even if he does, people will still bash him.
The SF game is 1 of the best performances ever by a QB - he was hit 29 times in 58 drop backs - no turnovers - ridiculous.
His 1st SB - only time a SB QB facing a TD or lose scenario, drove his team down to win the game. His other 4th qtr possession - 80+ yard TD drive.
2nd SB - every possession the Giants had ended in Pats territory. He gave them nothing. The throw to Manningham is not even attempted by 99% of QB's - they would not risk it. Another 80+ yd 4th Qtr TD SB winning drive.
Does he make ocassional scratch the head plays -absolutely - but he has the balls to continue to push and go for it, where most do not, will not.
Will it get him in the HOF - who knows, is he deserving - likely; regardless, he brought us 2 championships, hopefully more, including 1 that will live forever
I agree with everything you have said in this post.
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In comment 12599867 bceagle05 said:
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likely won't be taken into consideration when it comes to Eli's HOF candidacy. Great system that helped us win two titles, but not always the most QB-friendly. We're seeing now what type of player he can be in a system that makes his job a bit easier.
Where did that shit start? Some idiot poster on BBI, no doubt.
Gilbride's offense helped make a star out of a guy that came from the Canadian league, Coughlin made a starting qb out of a Green Bay reject named Mark Brunell and helped revive the dead career of Kurt Warner. But these guys don't know anything about offense. Check.
BBI is starting to take its own silly bullshit as fact.
Tim Hasselbeck said the Coughlin/Gilbride offense was the most complicated of the many offenses he had to learn during his career. Is he some "idiot poster on BBI?" It was a tough offense on QBs and WRs, plain and simple.
I love how you classify Warren Moon "as some guy who came from the Canadian League." He was there due to racial stereotypes in football regarding African-American QBs. He had one of the great arms in football history. And Kurt Warner's career was hardly "revived" in nine games - most of which were average at best.
Racial stereotypes for qb's went out the window with Joe Gilliam and James Harris both of whom were starting qb's in the NFL when Moon was starting college. Vince Evans was in the same class as Moon and got drafted. The following year, Doug Williams was drafted in the first round. Moon's race had nothing to do with him not being drafted.
Warner was benched, replaced by the immortal Marc Bulger and released before the Giants picked him up off the scrap heap. His career path was hardly on an upward trajectory when he came to the Giants. He was immediately made the Cardinals starter after he left here.
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In comment 12599985 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 12599937 Trainmaster said:
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stats that others who value regular season stat highly, have said he is lacking (i.e. the "Other than 2 SB wins and SB MVPs, what has Eli done" - crowd).
Eli is increasing his HOF chances (in case another SB win doesn't happen) with the McAdoo offense.
Viewed in isolation, yes. The bar has been raised, however. Incredibly with the year he is having, Eli is the 12th ranked qb in the NFL.
how does one "rank" QBs. by using an analytical formula? All rankings are meaningless. the fact is out of the 8 games this year, we were in position to win 7. it's unfortunate we won won 4 of those. in the 3 losses, eli has played a part in the loss but also was a reason why we there to begin with.
Jesus Christ, you guys are so touchy.
It's a neutral analytical construct that can be, and has been, applied to all qb's for a few decades now. Some unenlightened individuals may prefer to use it other than to ask you or LTS what you think.
you just forgot one part about your claim of Eli being rated as the #12 QB in passer rating. Two parts actually, first is he's #11.
Second, Kellen Clemens is #1 w/6 attempts, Matt Moore is #2 with 1 attempt, so right away, you already fucked up, he should be #9 according to you.
But then as you look closer, at the rest of the actual starters ahead of Eli? Brady is tops at 115, palmer/rodgers at 110, Dalton 107, Carr 105, Tyrod 103, Rivers 102, Brees 100, Eli 99, Romo 98.
So we have 15 points separating Eli from Brady and even less separating Eli from the rest.
Those single points are the biggest differentiator between all these excellent QBs? And they suggest some big gap between the levels of play of all of them?
Sorry homer but even for you that's just fucking dumb.
These top QBs are all really good. So much so that passer rating is a seriously incomplete way to rank their play.
It's severely flawed as an end all be all. Always has been. Always will be.
It ain't us being touchy, it's you being extremely narrow minded and missing the actual picture..
What is important is WHO is voting on the HOF. Or doesn't anyone remember the imbecile that refused to vote for Carson.
They brought him back for 2006, as a mentor/stop gap, but he again only lasted three games before being benched due to his poor play and them thinking it was for the best to just get Leinart's feet wet if the QB wasn't going to perform well anyway. He only ended up back on the field because Leinart got injured late in the season.
It wasn't until 2007, really, when Warner started to look recovered, as he'd consistently shine when brought in to relieve the struggling Leinart and it wasn't until 2008 that he actually grabbed their starting job securely and full-time.
It's pretty delusional to claim Coughlin/Gilbride revived his career, honestly.
Take this for instance, since his bad (but fluky) 2013 season, he has 47 Tds and 18 INTs. He may not be Brady, His brother, or Rodgers, but there isn't a qb not named them that I would take over Eli.
There are people here that will argue with you tooth and nail that Andrew Luck is a sure fire, first ballot HOF'er RIGHT NOW without seeing the rest of his career, and having no idea how it will turn out. I'm not saying he's not, don't want to start that argument here, but who knows?
Meanwhile, the same people will discredit the guy, at every turn, who helped turn our franchise into a champion, doing things we never dreamed our team would do... And now that guy has the statistics to back it up, and they are irrelevant. It used to be, yeah, he has the championships, but not the stats. Now he's getting the stats, and it's some other excuse. But Andrew Luck is going in first ballot, nevermind the guy is throwing 2:1 INT's to TD's right now (something that used to be the argument for keeping Eli out).
Plunkett has 2 rings, and a SB MVP. That's it.
Simms has 2 rings, a SB MVP, 2 Pro Bowls, and a Pro Bowl MVP.
Eli has 2 rings, 2 SB MVPs, and 3 Pro Bowls.
Now I know there is much more than rings and Pro Bowls but when looking at all the stats, Plunkett is nowhere near Eli but Simms is pretty damn close. Eli is still better though.
I can only conclude that Plunkett is used to simply bash Eli when it has no actual basis for comparison.
Plunkett has 2 rings, and a SB MVP. That's it.
Simms has 2 rings, a SB MVP, 2 Pro Bowls, and a Pro Bowl MVP.
Eli has 2 rings, 2 SB MVPs, and 3 Pro Bowls.
Now I know there is much more than rings and Pro Bowls but when looking at all the stats, Plunkett is nowhere near Eli but Simms is pretty damn close. Eli is still better though.
I can only conclude that Plunkett is used to simply bash Eli when it has no actual basis for comparison.
More on Plunkett: Almost every year he threw more picks than TDs. Almost every year!
Different era, but still.......it's why he was benched, then traded.
And his run with the Raiders was a short one.
Lightening in a bottle, so he's not a HOF'er. Longevity is part of it.
There are people here that will argue with you tooth and nail that Andrew Luck is a sure fire, first ballot HOF'er RIGHT NOW without seeing the rest of his career, and having no idea how it will turn out. I'm not saying he's not, don't want to start that argument here, but who knows?
Meanwhile, the same people will discredit the guy, at every turn, who helped turn our franchise into a champion, doing things we never dreamed our team would do... And now that guy has the statistics to back it up, and they are irrelevant. It used to be, yeah, he has the championships, but not the stats. Now he's getting the stats, and it's some other excuse. But Andrew Luck is going in first ballot, nevermind the guy is throwing 2:1 INT's to TD's right now (something that used to be the argument for keeping Eli out).
agreed