Seeing how well the Panthers are doing, and the effectiveness of their FA acquisitions/departures (including letting Beason go to the Giants) makes me wonder if there is a drop off in Pro Player Personnel evaluations on the Giants since he left.
I thought that Dwayne Harris and Shane Vereen were good hires this off-season, and Ayres and DRC were good hires last off-season, but the Giants did badly last year relying on a massive FA overhaul, and I'm wondering more and more if the Giants are going through growing pains in the pro personnel department now that the's gone.
That was very much a James Jones decision.
Surprised he didn't get a WR anywhere, but I don't know their cap situation.
We chose Cruz and Randle over JJ... JJ didn't play special teams he would have been in the slot.
Yes I think it has. I believe Gettleman and Ross were both attractive off of 2011.
What did you guys think of Ross after watching "Finding Giants"?
They have solved this problem by signing free agents who are already injury-prone.
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that was very much a Coughlin decision.
That was very much a James Jones decision.
ding ding
I find him very smug and full of himself. I was not left with a very good feeling knowing Ross is a key part of our player evaluation and selection process.
They have solved this problem by signing free agents who are already injury-prone.
Triple B - remember the back-pedaling that occurred over the O'Brien Schofield signing -- I don't ever remember anything like that occurring on the Giants before
All the guys we're discussing are worlds better than Marv Sunderland. That guy was a disaster.
AP - James Jones has stated that he asked to be cut
When Nelson busted his ACL, JJ saw the opportunity to go back to GB where he would actually play. He asked for and was granted his request, it was a mutual decision to move on.
He has done a good job in Carolina but he has his hand in the poor quality drafting we did in those years.
People have questioned his drafts and his handling of certain contracts.
You have to also remember, that up to this year, Cam has had one year with a winning record, and Gettleman was under a bit of fire coming into this year. 7-8-1 last year, beating a decimated Arizona squad left many people here thinking like BBI'ers do - "We made the playoffs, but!".
He has done a good job in Carolina but he has his hand in the poor quality drafting we did in those years.
TGJ - Gettleman had nothing to do with any drafts while he was working for the Giants -- he was Director of Pro Personnel which is Free Agent Aquisition
BillT - The Giants spent a chitload of money on Free Agency last year - and that really didn't pan out now, did it.
Next offseason, it's going to be very interesting to see how they attack UFA and the defense, as well as other roster holes.
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The Giants' FA acquisitions have been very solid and they actually haven't spent that much on them. I think they've done a good job with a big season to come.
BillT - The Giants spent a chitload of money on Free Agency last year - and that really didn't pan out now, did it.
Harris, Vereen didn't work out? Thomas has been dinged a bit but he's played pretty well. And have you checked the numbers. Harris contract averages 3.5mil, Vereen 4.1 mil, Thomas 3.3 mil, Castillas 2.6 mil, Jennings 2.5 mil. Those aren't big numbers when the average contract (salary cap divided by 53) is 2.7 mil. DRC's contract was a steal at 7 mil. Look at what Dallas and Philly payed for worse CBs.
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In comment 12603260 BillT said:
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The Giants' FA acquisitions have been very solid and they actually haven't spent that much on them. I think they've done a good job with a big season to come.
BillT - The Giants spent a chitload of money on Free Agency last year - and that really didn't pan out now, did it.
Harris, Vereen didn't work out? Thomas has been dinged a bit but he's played pretty well. And have you checked the numbers. Harris contract averages 3.5mil, Vereen 4.1 mil, Thomas 3.3 mil, Castillas 2.6 mil, Jennings 2.5 mil. Those aren't big numbers when the average contract (salary cap divided by 53) is 2.7 mil. DRC's contract was a steal at 7 mil. Look at what Dallas and Philly payed for worse CBs.
Bill -- Jiminey cricket dude -- you are talking about this year not last year -- and I do think DRC was a good signing last year -- I said it above -- but overall we signed a lot of players last year with awful results
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never cut James Jones.
One of the first things Gettleman did when he went to Carolina was let Steve Smith go. And now the Panthers have probably the worst WR corps in the NFL.
Why let real information get in the way of frothing at the mouth fanhood.
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In comment 12603268 gidiefor said:
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In comment 12603260 BillT said:
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The Giants' FA acquisitions have been very solid and they actually haven't spent that much on them. I think they've done a good job with a big season to come.
BillT - The Giants spent a chitload of money on Free Agency last year - and that really didn't pan out now, did it.
Harris, Vereen didn't work out? Thomas has been dinged a bit but he's played pretty well. And have you checked the numbers. Harris contract averages 3.5mil, Vereen 4.1 mil, Thomas 3.3 mil, Castillas 2.6 mil, Jennings 2.5 mil. Those aren't big numbers when the average contract (salary cap divided by 53) is 2.7 mil. DRC's contract was a steal at 7 mil. Look at what Dallas and Philly payed for worse CBs.
Bill -- Jiminey cricket dude -- you are talking about this year not last year -- and I do think DRC was a good signing last year -- I said it above -- but overall we signed a lot of players last year with awful results
No. We signed a lot of players last year that got hurt. If that's the same as awful results then it is. I think the contracts matched the players skills but you're right it's hard to impress from the IR list.
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In comment 12603303 BillT said:
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In comment 12603268 gidiefor said:
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In comment 12603260 BillT said:
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The Giants' FA acquisitions have been very solid and they actually haven't spent that much on them. I think they've done a good job with a big season to come.
BillT - The Giants spent a chitload of money on Free Agency last year - and that really didn't pan out now, did it.
Harris, Vereen didn't work out? Thomas has been dinged a bit but he's played pretty well. And have you checked the numbers. Harris contract averages 3.5mil, Vereen 4.1 mil, Thomas 3.3 mil, Castillas 2.6 mil, Jennings 2.5 mil. Those aren't big numbers when the average contract (salary cap divided by 53) is 2.7 mil. DRC's contract was a steal at 7 mil. Look at what Dallas and Philly payed for worse CBs.
Bill -- Jiminey cricket dude -- you are talking about this year not last year -- and I do think DRC was a good signing last year -- I said it above -- but overall we signed a lot of players last year with awful results
No. We signed a lot of players last year that got hurt. If that's the same as awful results then it is. I think the contracts matched the players skills but you're right it's hard to impress from the IR list.
Agreed Bill..Thurmond, Schwartz, DRC, Jennings were all solid signings imo..Unfortunately Thurmond was out for the year, Schwartz effectively was, DRC played on one leg the entire year and Jennings, once he went down in game 4(?) was effectively useless the rest of the year..McClain was a rather good back-up..
It was a good FA in '14 when the pick-ups were signed..What happened afterwards had ZERO to do with the quality of signings, imv
I agree with this. Jones said that he was told that he wouldn't have a significant role in the offense, so he asked for his release.
So the real question is why did someone decide that Jones wouldn't have a significant role? Because Randle would get snaps that would otherwise go to Jones? If so, they apparently completely misread Randle's injury and his ability to be affective.
Also, why would they not somehow figure out some way to use Jones in the offense in light of his performance in the preseason?
Those are the more important questions to ask IMO.
I think it matters in the area of finding nice fill in vets.
Not sure they needed to spend so much money on a guy like Dwayne Harris to run special teams and sub WRs. Gettleman, you'd think, was responsible for great pickups like Domenik Hixon and got them on team friendly deals.
The way he handled the Steve Smith thing was bad, but other than that it looks like he was handed a terribly mismanaged cap and still did well.
And it is funny because this year's draft class so far has been his weakest with his top two picks contributing little, but watch, when this team starts to slide, he'll get the blame.
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In comment 12603162 David in LA said:
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that was very much a Coughlin decision.
That was very much a James Jones decision.
ding ding
So let me get this straight -- franchise players kick and scream when the team tags them, including our own JPP (who was instrumental in helping us win a SB, by the way) -- who despite destroying his hand and missing half the season and who knows how effective we'll be now -- the giants do NOT grant him his wish to be released.
But a guy like James Jones -- wants to be cut and ... sure pal, no problem. Best of luck in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers.
What?
I never heard JPP requested to be released. Really?
What NFL team has ever kept a 31 yr old WR to be a 5th WR. No one - teams do not do that - they keep younger guys at that position.
Gettleman's WR situation is shit and he made zero play for Jones
This is not speculation. Some of us heard an interview with James Jones after he got to Green Bay. He talked about this in detail. Said that it looked like he was going to be behind Reuben Randle on the depth chart and (with Cruz most likely coming back sooner than later) that would put him 4th on the depth chart. He said he went to the Giants and asked for his release because at this point in his career he did not want to be the #4. He wanted to play more. He also said that he felt like he was behind Randle because Randle was a Giants draft pick.
That is exactly what he said and his comment about behing behind Randle due to the draft thing sounds like the Giants.
Now, you can get on Coughlin for being stubborn about forcing the issue with Randle but he did not cut James Jones.
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In comment 12603164 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 12603162 David in LA said:
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that was very much a Coughlin decision.
That was very much a James Jones decision.
ding ding
So let me get this straight -- franchise players kick and scream when the team tags them, including our own JPP (who was instrumental in helping us win a SB, by the way) -- who despite destroying his hand and missing half the season and who knows how effective we'll be now -- the giants do NOT grant him his wish to be released.
But a guy like James Jones -- wants to be cut and ... sure pal, no problem. Best of luck in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers.
What?
Yes. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. Jones was a fringe veteran from another team whom they decided probably wouldn't play.
Their decision, in hindsight, was a poor one. But, at the time they chose to honor a request, and this has been confirmed by Jones and TC themselves via the media.
if by hindsight, you mean, "right away", then sure. Regardless, I can perhaps see "honoring a request" from a longtime Giant...but they owed nothing to this guy. Are they in the business of winning games or playing nice with others?
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Their decision, in hindsight, was a poor one. But, at the time they chose to honor a request, and this has been confirmed by Jones and TC themselves via the media.
if by hindsight, you mean, "right away", then sure. Regardless, I can perhaps see "honoring a request" from a longtime Giant...but they owed nothing to this guy. Are they in the business of winning games or playing nice with others?
You know the answer to this. The Giants have never handled things in a coldblooded, strictly business sense.
Phil Simms would disagree. As would several others.
on to the next boneheaded roster decision!
I guess someone else posted "never handled things". Regardless, it's not "coldblooded" to expect a player to honor an agreement. It's sort of standard operating procedure for competent franchises. Trying to make what was clearly a mistake into some shining example of the Giants doing the right thing is a bunch of bullshit.
Is someone painting this as a shining example of doing the right thing, or simply pointing out that this is a thing that happens?
They want one last chance to go out as a starter on top. And when Nelson got hurt, that was Jones' chance.
It would've been nice to have him here, but I understand why he isn't.
But hey, a board that spent several years bemoaning the loss of Matt Stover while we had adequate kickers still in NY holds onto things in a strange way.
trying to do the right thing was the mistake. Or at least one of them.
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Why can't it be a mistake and the result of the Giants trying to do the right thing? They're not mutually exclusive.
trying to do the right thing was the mistake. Or at least one of them.
No, not at all. The mistake was the evaluation of Preston Parker.
Is someone painting this as a shining example of doing the right thing, or simply pointing out that this is a thing that happens?
teams often cut players early in camp who aren't going to make the team anyway so they can latch on to another roster. That is a courtesy you see often. This is clearly something different.
They were asking him to accept a bench role and he didn't want it. I don't think there's anything more to it that. If you believe they should have ignored him and chained him to the bench against his will, that's fine.
I don't think anyone would expect the Giants to keep a player who doesn't want to buy in or be part of the team.
They were asking him to accept a bench role and he didn't want it. I don't think there's anything more to it that. If you believe they should have ignored him and chained him to the bench against his will, that's fine.
I don't think anyone would expect the Giants to keep a player who doesn't want to buy in or be part of the team.
I'm sure there's about 20 guys on the roster right now who aren't getting the playing time they feel they deserve. I guess we just cut them all and let them run free to other rosters?
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The Giants had 3 guys they were comfortable with and 1 they expected back from injury.
They were asking him to accept a bench role and he didn't want it. I don't think there's anything more to it that. If you believe they should have ignored him and chained him to the bench against his will, that's fine.
I don't think anyone would expect the Giants to keep a player who doesn't want to buy in or be part of the team.
I'm sure there's about 20 guys on the roster right now who aren't getting the playing time they feel they deserve. I guess we just cut them all and let them run free to other rosters?
Did those 20 guys ask to be let go? I wouldn't have any problem getting rid of players who don't want to be here. Jones did not want to be here. There's so much anger at the front office, when it's James Jones who didn't want to be a Giant. Fans should be irate with him. He's done nothing to go wide eyed over and be a prisoner to his talent level.
Jon and Eric,
The facts are that Jones said he didn't want to be #4. There are no facts that make it clear the Giants waived because he requested it. The Giants made a personnel decision. I'll believe Jones was cut because he asked for when I hear it from Coughlin and Reese. Until then, it's not a fact.
Certainly, many here questioned the decision at the time and were proven correct.
I have no issue with Jones trying to get himself to a better situation. He has every right to ask for whatever he wants. And the team has every right to politely decline and hold him to his contract.
loyalty to a guy who's never played a down for you seems pretty foolish. I'm sure there are guys in the locker room (maybe the QB?) who'd want the best possible unit out there.