Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
I don't watch the Vikings so I don't know how good he is now, but a couple of years ago he wasn't worth the huge deal. And, if I'm not mistaken, he wasn't living up to the huge deal prior to this season.
DRC is probably the defensive MVP - so this seems like a lot of misguided hand-wringing. Can you imagine a banged up Prince paired with a draft pick or a mid-tier FA, with the pass rush we have?
It isn't like Joseph was going to make the pass rush a lot better.
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
it drives me insane every week watching it....
you invest a 2nd rounder and develop a guy and then ARENT willing to retain him.... WTF!!!! but retain beason... sign scrub back up Linebackers for actual money...
think we "let" Martellus Bennett "walk" that fucking stupid to realize the deal he was looking for?
The mistake wasn't letting him walk, it was the 1 year contract, but that was a condition that Bennett asked for.
It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, especially in a sea of morons who don't understand the cap or player demands and think an infinite amount of $$ is available.
JT Thomas - hurt but was playing OK
Casillas - we've needed him thus far
Harris' crazy contract - Holy fuckballs is that serious?
Beatty's crazy contract - also necessary and a very fair deal for both sides
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical) - He's turned out to be a pretty good player
Newhouse - he is what he is, a capable back up, damn reese for not predicting the beatty injury
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
Going on and on doesn't mean you have any intelligent points.
to get a second contract from the giants? its been a while, i think.
Herzlich? Craig Dahl (jk), Do you mean strictly draft picks, if so maybe Kiwi.
Technically JPP. Terrell Thomas also re-signed after his rookie contract, but that was ruined by injuries. And Aaron Ross also signed a "second contract" with the Giants, though that was after leaving initially.
it was not signing him long term sooner. He was a good player for us early on. But, that is how the cap works. You can't keep everybody.
Agree John..The question is, was he offered a long term contract before he hit FA and rejected it as Smith did the year before his injury? I don't recall whether we did or not..Usually, unless injury prone, the Giants will really try to keep their own imo..Not sure what went on with Cofield though
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
Going on and on doesn't mean you have any intelligent points.
Funny, I've yet to see you make any meaningful contribution in any thread. Don't question my intelligence on this roster or the mediocre at best job this GM has done. The only thing he's successfully done is allow the talent level to deteriorate to the point where 2 separate entities ranked us in the bottom tier league wide this past summer.
cheap and cost-controlled, these are the decisions and tactics required working under a salary cap.
I understand the cap manuevering aspect Jon, but I believe(d) that they way the game is played now $$ are better spent up front to get pressure on the QB and to stop the run. Nobody would run on Hank/LJ, and LJ can get up field too. And it would have protected the putrid LB core
about Joseph. Lobbied hard here about him bieng a top priority signing to pair with Hankins. Those two would have solved our run problems for years Many here, who may not admit it now, had all kinds of reason why we should not. The Beason resigning and the failure to resign LJ were the front offices biggest FA blunders in the past few years. Now see are paying the price.
cheap and cost-controlled, these are the decisions and tactics required working under a salary cap.
I understand the cap manuevering aspect Jon, but I believe(d) that they way the game is played now $$ are better spent up front to get pressure on the QB and to stop the run. Nobody would run on Hank/LJ, and LJ can get up field too. And it would have protected the putrid LB core
I was told at the time NYG wasn't terribly interested in retaining LJ, they reportedly valued him at $4M per and he got much more via UFA. I don't waste time wringing my hands over it.
isn't a guy who first developed after he left the Giants. He was already very productive. But Reese apparently thought that as a run stuffing DT Joseph could be easily replaced, like Cofield. But it isn't so easy to find those guys, and having two makes your DL so much more effective. They shut down the run, and make the pass rush much more effective. Limited pass rushers like Selvie and Ayers would benefit from having two DTs who tie up blockers.
I originally thought Joseph had to be let go for DRC, but a good GM would have found a way to sign both. Or drafted better players so we wouldn't have to choose.
As far as Beatty was concerned, Reese passed on Cordy Glenn for David Wilson, even though Glenn was the highest rated player on their board. That drove up Beatty's price.
that's a given. Many fans, including myself, were clamoring to keep him at the time too. We had cheaper replacements with Hankins and Jenkins, but think of what a line of LJo and Hankins would have been like! Sometimes I think our front office is very short-sighted!
Reese does plenty wrong. Unfortunately, BBI is his official fan club.
How the fuck do we have fans typing posts in game threads saying that the GM must go?
why are multiple threads created each week pretty much blaming Reese for everything under the sun (outside of the threads that blame TC for everything?
We have several troll accounts here whose only goal is to bash the GM (Ginny Poo being a main one).
This is far from a fan club - in fact, most of Reese's support comes not from people being his fans, but rather arguing against a lot of morons who don't make valid points about him.
we need another big FA period, The Oline feels solid now with the impending return of Beatty, Re sign Prince, sign another Safety, a everydown MLB and a stud DLineman. spend the money Jerry!
1. He was awful last year. Fans would've complained the entire season about how signing him for that contract was the biggest FA mistake of Reese's tenure.
2. It's not the total or even average value of the deal that mattered. The Vikes gave him a large roster bonus ($2.4M) in 2014 which essentially frontloaded the deal. It would've been hard for the Giants to match that structure without creating even worse depth problems.
cheap and cost-controlled, these are the decisions and tactics required working under a salary cap.
I understand the cap manuevering aspect Jon, but I believe(d) that they way the game is played now $$ are better spent up front to get pressure on the QB and to stop the run. Nobody would run on Hank/LJ, and LJ can get up field too. And it would have protected the putrid LB core
I was told at the time NYG wasn't terribly interested in retaining LJ, they reportedly valued him at $4M per and he got much more via UFA. I don't waste time wringing my hands over it.
All that proves is that they made a bad evaluation of his talent and contributions. Stapleton also cited his play for the Vikings last year to justify the decision by the Giants not to resign him. But he had already produced for us, and would have also been playing next to Hankins.
It's ok, though. We have the Kuhn and Jenkins to pick up the slack.
LJ's $$ went to DRC.
it's been almost two years, time to move on.
DRC is probably the defensive MVP - so this seems like a lot of misguided hand-wringing. Can you imagine a banged up Prince paired with a draft pick or a mid-tier FA, with the pass rush we have?
It isn't like Joseph was going to make the pass rush a lot better.
Herzlich? Craig Dahl (jk), Do you mean strictly draft picks, if so maybe Kiwi.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
you invest a 2nd rounder and develop a guy and then ARENT willing to retain him.... WTF!!!! but retain beason... sign scrub back up Linebackers for actual money...
very frustrating.
The mistake wasn't letting him walk, it was the 1 year contract, but that was a condition that Bennett asked for.
It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, especially in a sea of morons who don't understand the cap or player demands and think an infinite amount of $$ is available.
Casillas - we've needed him thus far
Harris' crazy contract - Holy fuckballs is that serious?
Beatty's crazy contract - also necessary and a very fair deal for both sides
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical) - He's turned out to be a pretty good player
Newhouse - he is what he is, a capable back up, damn reese for not predicting the beatty injury
good times
Quote:
to get a second contract from the giants? its been a while, i think.
Herzlich? Craig Dahl (jk), Do you mean strictly draft picks, if so maybe Kiwi.
yes, draft picks,i think you are right about it being kiwi,thanks.
Swell. That's got what exactly to do with whether or not he merited the deal he got two years ago?
Quote:
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
Going on and on doesn't mean you have any intelligent points.
Joseph and Hankins would have been an excellent interior.
Quote:
to get a second contract from the giants? its been a while, i think.
Herzlich? Craig Dahl (jk), Do you mean strictly draft picks, if so maybe Kiwi.
Technically JPP. Terrell Thomas also re-signed after his rookie contract, but that was ruined by injuries. And Aaron Ross also signed a "second contract" with the Giants, though that was after leaving initially.
Agree John..The question is, was he offered a long term contract before he hit FA and rejected it as Smith did the year before his injury? I don't recall whether we did or not..Usually, unless injury prone, the Giants will really try to keep their own imo..Not sure what went on with Cofield though
Some fans called out Linval Joseph w/ Vikes yesterday + slamming Giants for not resigning.
If he had his 2014 here, NYG would've been ripped
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 6m6 minutes ago
Don't play retroactive game with Linval Joseph with Johnathan Hankins getting hurt yesterday. Hankins > Joseph last year + not even close
Quote:
In comment 12609877 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
Going on and on doesn't mean you have any intelligent points.
Funny, I've yet to see you make any meaningful contribution in any thread. Don't question my intelligence on this roster or the mediocre at best job this GM has done. The only thing he's successfully done is allow the talent level to deteriorate to the point where 2 separate entities ranked us in the bottom tier league wide this past summer.
Again, I don't watch the Vikings - he's a nose tackle now? Maybe he's better suited for the 3-4 NT than 4-3 DT?
Letting Joseph go was a mistake, and many of us said so at the time.
There was money there for both Joseph and DRC.
2014 FA Scorecard - ( New Window )
I understand the cap manuevering aspect Jon, but I believe(d) that they way the game is played now $$ are better spent up front to get pressure on the QB and to stop the run. Nobody would run on Hank/LJ, and LJ can get up field too. And it would have protected the putrid LB core
Some fans called out Linval Joseph w/ Vikes yesterday + slamming Giants for not resigning.
If he had his 2014 here, NYG would've been ripped
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 6m6 minutes ago
Don't play retroactive game with Linval Joseph with Johnathan Hankins getting hurt yesterday. Hankins > Joseph last year + not even close
If I remember right, Hankins graded out as the #6 DT (Aaron Donald was #1) per PFF and LJ was #65. So, yes, what Art says is correct.
Quote:
cheap and cost-controlled, these are the decisions and tactics required working under a salary cap.
I understand the cap manuevering aspect Jon, but I believe(d) that they way the game is played now $$ are better spent up front to get pressure on the QB and to stop the run. Nobody would run on Hank/LJ, and LJ can get up field too. And it would have protected the putrid LB core
I was told at the time NYG wasn't terribly interested in retaining LJ, they reportedly valued him at $4M per and he got much more via UFA. I don't waste time wringing my hands over it.
Letting Joseph go was a mistake, and many of us said so at the time.
There was money there for both Joseph and DRC. 2014 FA Scorecard - ( New Window )
Reese does plenty wrong. Unfortunately, BBI is his official fan club.
I originally thought Joseph had to be let go for DRC, but a good GM would have found a way to sign both. Or drafted better players so we wouldn't have to choose.
As far as Beatty was concerned, Reese passed on Cordy Glenn for David Wilson, even though Glenn was the highest rated player on their board. That drove up Beatty's price.
How the fuck do we have fans typing posts in game threads saying that the GM must go?
why are multiple threads created each week pretty much blaming Reese for everything under the sun (outside of the threads that blame TC for everything?
We have several troll accounts here whose only goal is to bash the GM (Ginny Poo being a main one).
This is far from a fan club - in fact, most of Reese's support comes not from people being his fans, but rather arguing against a lot of morons who don't make valid points about him.
It's ok, though. We have the Kuhn and Jenkins to pick up the slack.
Not sure about Hankins being better....
the defense isn't broke
2. It's not the total or even average value of the deal that mattered. The Vikes gave him a large roster bonus ($2.4M) in 2014 which essentially frontloaded the deal. It would've been hard for the Giants to match that structure without creating even worse depth problems.
Quote:
In comment 12609914 JonC said:
Quote:
cheap and cost-controlled, these are the decisions and tactics required working under a salary cap.
I understand the cap manuevering aspect Jon, but I believe(d) that they way the game is played now $$ are better spent up front to get pressure on the QB and to stop the run. Nobody would run on Hank/LJ, and LJ can get up field too. And it would have protected the putrid LB core
I was told at the time NYG wasn't terribly interested in retaining LJ, they reportedly valued him at $4M per and he got much more via UFA. I don't waste time wringing my hands over it.
All that proves is that they made a bad evaluation of his talent and contributions. Stapleton also cited his play for the Vikings last year to justify the decision by the Giants not to resign him. But he had already produced for us, and would have also been playing next to Hankins.