think we "let" Martellus Bennett "walk" that fucking stupid to realize the deal he was looking for?
The mistake wasn't letting him walk, it was the 1 year contract, but that was a condition that Bennett asked for.
It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, especially in a sea of morons who don't understand the cap or player demands and think an infinite amount of $$ is available.
Just listen to the crap some are saying. Apparently, they've heard this so many times that they accept it as true, regardless of how false it is. And the laundry lists of "bad deals (including Bennett) just boggle the mind because they're such uninformed choices.
it's not hindsight when a bunch of us questioned the move at the time.
On a message board where people post opinions about literally every roster transaction, there's going to be people who "got it right" because even a blind squirrel can sometimes a find nut. People throw crap against the wall and say I told you so when they happen to get it right or even a little right, and then either stay silent or laugh it off when they get it badly wrong. Not saying you didn't have a valid opinion Eric, but BBI exists for many posters as a way to comment on every single decision and transaction even if they literally have no clue. Ranting and raving is enjoyable for some people and the bonus is when you can rsnt and rave and then pat themselves on the back for guessing right
Should be gone, for a number of reasons. But letting Joseph go is not one of them. Many wanted him to stay (as did I) and were disappointed when he went to the Vikes. Now he's playing well so a hindsight argument adds to the frustration that-Reece should have known.
Look, Pat Kirwin has talked about these signings as a FA tactic. Clubs with cap room review the rosters of teams up against the cap for 2nd level players who are solid but not stars. They can offer a blow out contract knowing that teams like the Giants have to prioritize. Reece has a dollar figure in the budget that he wants to resign LV. Is a solid if not consistent run stopping DL who is not going to become Haloti Ngata worth blowing up your plans.
This is just frustration and hindsight...we need to move on
We all wanted to keep him. In Hindsight it is easy to say the Giants should have paid him that amount since so many of the FAs signed were flops or injured. for example - Joseph is easily worth Beason and Schwartz at this point, but there is no way to know that 2 years ago.
Hindisight is 20/20 as said above. In hindsight keeping Joseph and overpaying him, not signing Beason and a handful of other garbage/injured players likely leaves the Giants with a better roster.
Think about it - for years the fans lamented the loss of two guys the loudest - Matt Stover and Olindo Mare. Two guys who weren't ever anything other than preseason competition, but people bitched and moaned like we'd royally fucked up.
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
At this point in the year, if you think Harris' contract is crazy, then no, you don't have a clue.
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
At this point in the year, if you think Harris' contract is crazy, then no, you don't have a clue.
Here's why I disagree: You should be able to find players like him in the mid rounds of any given draft. A team, with little to no shot at the playoffs, should not be doling out a 5 year deal for $17.5 million ($7.1 gauranteed) to guys like Dwayne Harris. You think any of the 31 other teams would do? Again, it speaks volumes to the drafting of this franchise in the mid rounds as well as the fiscal irresponsibility. Nothing personal against Harris. I like the player.
there are some fans on BBI who think the Giants can do no wrong.
Letting Joseph go was a mistake, and many of us said so at the time.
There was money there for both Joseph and DRC. 2014 FA Scorecard - ( New Window )
THank you Eric.
Yes. This. Reese doesn't have an easy job but if he had kept Joseph knowing he and Hankins are solid the Bromley lick could have been another DB or LB or OL. Joseph's guanratee was not out of line for a good starter. Since the DL Is a disaster why give Reese a pass.
It's an issue. And w huge cap $$ available next year it should give us pause. The Beason new deal is just icing on the cake
Now as off injured as Prince is he could have re done his deal a year ago. We have ONE good starter CB next year in DRC. If I'm an agent for a even a good CB im homdkng Reese up for big bucks.
This is a worry about Reese. His whole philosophy is to find top tier players at DL and CB and WR and even when they pan out he hasn't been able to get new heals done with all going into theirnFA years without an extension.
His three best picks on D were Linjo(gone) Prince and JPP. The next two could be gone next year. Talk depth issues. Reese has made some nice moves but letting Joseph go has had a huge ripple effect
Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
At this point in the year, if you think Harris' contract is crazy, then no, you don't have a clue.
Here's why I disagree: You should be able to find players like him in the mid rounds of any given draft. A team, with little to no shot at the playoffs, should not be doling out a 5 year deal for $17.5 million ($7.1 gauranteed) to guys like Dwayne Harris. You think any of the 31 other teams would do? Again, it speaks volumes to the drafting of this franchise in the mid rounds as well as the fiscal irresponsibility. Nothing personal against Harris. I like the player.
And, for what it's worth, Dallas has adequately replaced him with Lucky Whitehead, who was an UDFA, on kick returns and by using Beasley on most punt returns. He may not get a lot of burn at WR, but only because the Dallas WR unit is deeper than the NYG.
but anyone who saw LJ's play last year wouldn't be saying this. He's acknowledged this himself. Hankins outplayed him in 2014 without question. He was also outplayed by his teammate Sharif Floyd which is another example of where LJ has the benefit this year. Look at his talent vs. what Hankins had played with. Floyd's missed games this year but even his backup Tom Johnson would be the 2nd best tackle on this team. The Vikings front 7 is light years better than what the Giants have put on the field for most of the year. Eric Kendricks, their rookie MLB would lead our team in sacks (and since we're playing revisionist history I would've taken him over Collins). Anthony Barr is a beast. They not only have a competent safety to defend the pass, he's pro bowl caliber. Not to mention their DE's and a well respected defensive minded HC. And still Hankins is one of the best run stuffing DT's in the league.
Let's also not forget that LJ's contract would've overlapped JPP's. None of us had the foresight in thinking he would blow off part of his hand but I think it's fair to say that he was in the plans. If we can all have the hindsight ability in saying we should've kept LJ then we should have the foresight in knowing what can of restrictions that would've put on the cap of having both of them under contract not to mention Eli. Imagine what kind of scrap heap, 1 year contract, journeymen players would be on the team.
That seems like some revisionist thinking to me. Perhaps I am incorrect, but I believe the Vikings signed Joseph way before the Giants signed DRC. Seems like DRC was an after thought.
That seems like some revisionist thinking to me. Perhaps I am incorrect, but I believe the Vikings signed Joseph way before the Giants signed DRC. Seems like DRC was an after thought.
DRC signed on March 17th, Linval on March 11th. The bidding war for DRC went on quite a bit longer, so I'm sure the Giants knew they were in the running and needed the cap dollars for DRC.
and chose to spend big money at a higher priority, and harder position to fill in CB. Not sure what people want. Hindsight is awesome though, especially when our DLine has been decimated with injuries.
not hindsight. I said it at the time, and so did many others here.
My hindsight comment is that this has popped up again a day after we lose our best lineman. If we didn't have a Hankins injury and JPP didn't blow his hand off, our line doesn't look nearly as bad as it does now. That's what I'm talking about.
I was indifferent about LJ. I get why people were mad we didn't retain him and I understand why we used those funds elsewhere.
I've said this before. You don't lose 5 early round picks to career ending injuries and not have a ripple effect.
To me his biggest negatives were not foreseeing the rapid decline of the OL when Snee, O'Hara and Diehl fell off a cliff and the management of the LB position. For some, they just can't get past that and crucify the guy.
Brett is correct. NYG was in on DRC very early and had pre-determined CB was a wiser allocation of that amount of cap dollars over a DT. Reese had mentioned publically later on they were in on DRC very early, made DRC know he was a priority in their strategy.
I was also told there was hesitation over LJ based on personality fit, no clue how accurate it was. But their valuation was in the $4-5M range and their best guess it wouldn't be enough and they were willing to gamble.
I've said this before. You don't lose 5 early round picks to career ending injuries and not have a ripple effect.
To me his biggest negatives were not foreseeing the rapid decline of the OL when Snee, O'Hara and Diehl fell off a cliff and the management of the LB position. For some, they just can't get past that and crucify the guy.
Fair enough. I respect your opinion. I feel completely different. I will say this: I called into Francesa yesterday regarding Reese. I presented my case about the roster decay citing how both NFL.com (Bucky Brooks) and PFF slotted us in the bottom third league wide in talent. I mentioned how we were lucky to be 4-4 (he agreed) and said we'd likely finish with 6/7 wins (which he also concurred). And, while I know Mike's not the be all/end all to this debate, he essentially said if it were him, he'd blow up the entire operation as it is evident something is wrong.
One could argue NYG could find a couple/few million here or there to keep LJ, but they had several other bigger fish to fry on tap at the time, and they are built defensively around DE and CB talent.
Sucks to "lucky to be 4-4". One win was legitimately stolen from us with that Cowboys game because of atrocious officiating the league already apologized for.
They were not lucky to be 4-4. They were decidedly unlucky.
to say you'd blow up the entire operation without having the fix.
Let's say you clean house. This means Reese goes, TC goes, the coordinators probably go. But the players stay. And those that leave just mean we will start the cycle over again of restocking, now to the wants of a different coach and GM.
I'm not saying that is the wrong path - I'm just saying it isn't an easy or quick fix and you will waste eli's last prime years.
I also think people woefully underestimate exactly what impact injuries have, which is largely out of the control of the GM.
Sucks to "lucky to be 4-4". One win was legitimately stolen from us with that Cowboys game because of atrocious officiating the league already apologized for.
They were not lucky to be 4-4. They were decidedly unlucky.
7-4 would be pretty impressive since they've only played nine games.
isn't in the cards with Eli on the team, unless you are talking about the defense specifically. But even then, how much can the D really change if you aren't completely overhauling the FO/coach?
It sucks that we've been in a fun since the latest SB, but we've been fortunate in the grand scheme of things and shouldn't "blow it up" because things aren't going our way. If we had half as many injuries I'd actually be somewhat confident that we can get to 9 wins and win the division.
I've been quite critical of Reese, but never advocated his (or Coughlin's) firing. The team bottomed out in 2013 and has been improving since. Why change management while we're progressing in the manner expected?
One could argue NYG could find a couple/few million here or there to keep LJ, but they had several other bigger fish to fry on tap at the time, and they are built defensively around DE and CB talent.
Really. Then why draft Linjo, Austin, Hankins and Bromley. 3 2nd round picks and 1 3rd. That's. It true. He focuses on the DL. For the 100th time it's always about guaranteed $$. Joesph was give. About 10. He cousin have matched that easily and back loaded the deal. He didn't. It was t about other fish to fry. go. And if DE is so important It helps the. Immensely when the DTs collapse the pocket. He fucked up
Alos another factor IMO why cap $$$ were gone is His extensions to DD, Snee, and his two restructuring of Baas. Sound familiar? Like Beason. Extend an older player or 3 with injury histories Then he missed on guys like Sintim Austin Hosley Tracis Beckam, etc.
Many of us were ridiculed for saying they should have made him a priority signing.
You too? This is false; the Giants were not going to match what the Vikings paid. It had ZERO to do with Beason.
They don't pay a lot. Another fallacy by the Reese is perfect crowd. He got a front loaded cap deal but his guanratee was 10 million. Shit they gave Beatty 18 up front. Dude was a mediocre LT. But a very good young DT is t worth half? The why draft then high at all. Let the. Sit for a year the. When they develop in a good starter pray you don't miss in the draft? Shit be use of Austin sucking they over paid Cullen Jenkins. Who would you rather have next Sunday? Jenkins body with a fork in it or Joseph. The menu Jenkkns got could have gone to Joseph. Sure he was more but now we are carring guy who should be even be on the roster
He focuses the $ on pass rushers and CBs. The only DT he ever spent on was signed because he was a pass rusher (Canty). He spends non-first round draft picks on DTs, he's on record saying premium DT prospects have a bust rate. You can dispute how effective his philosophy is, but those are facts.
We don't disagree with your second paragraph or with the regime's blindspots or mistakes, many of which educated fans felt were obvious even to them.
Matty, we had Eli, JPP, and Nicks in line for raises Â
Has won a game, nearly two with his play this year. Without him I'd hate to imagine that secondary. He is who we paid instead of Linval and right now it's the smart bet. A player like DRC is not easily replaced.
He spent the time in the gym putting some muscle on, and it seems the coaches have built his focus, confidence, and understanding of scheme to where he's performing consistently.
But when they signed DRC, I was not in favor of it.
He spent the time in the gym putting some muscle on, and it seems the coaches have built his focus, confidence, and understanding of scheme to where he's performing consistently.
But when they signed DRC, I was not in favor of it.
Which is fine, but unlike the jackasses on here, you can change your mind(for reasons you mentioned) and not stubbornly stick to the dismay over that signing at the time..
He spent the time in the gym putting some muscle on, and it seems the coaches have built his focus, confidence, and understanding of scheme to where he's performing consistently.
But when they signed DRC, I was not in favor of it.
Nor was I, I wanted Linval and Tuck instead. Tuck is now on IR again and DRC has become a top shelf defender this year.
The mistake wasn't letting him walk, it was the 1 year contract, but that was a condition that Bennett asked for.
It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, especially in a sea of morons who don't understand the cap or player demands and think an infinite amount of $$ is available.
Just listen to the crap some are saying. Apparently, they've heard this so many times that they accept it as true, regardless of how false it is. And the laundry lists of "bad deals (including Bennett) just boggle the mind because they're such uninformed choices.
That shit is pathetic.
Letting Joseph go was a mistake, and many of us said so at the time.
There was money there for both Joseph and DRC. 2014 FA Scorecard - ( New Window )
You're seriously going to compare dollars for a top corner vs. a run-stuffing DL?
On a message board where people post opinions about literally every roster transaction, there's going to be people who "got it right" because even a blind squirrel can sometimes a find nut. People throw crap against the wall and say I told you so when they happen to get it right or even a little right, and then either stay silent or laugh it off when they get it badly wrong. Not saying you didn't have a valid opinion Eric, but BBI exists for many posters as a way to comment on every single decision and transaction even if they literally have no clue. Ranting and raving is enjoyable for some people and the bonus is when you can rsnt and rave and then pat themselves on the back for guessing right
Look, Pat Kirwin has talked about these signings as a FA tactic. Clubs with cap room review the rosters of teams up against the cap for 2nd level players who are solid but not stars. They can offer a blow out contract knowing that teams like the Giants have to prioritize. Reece has a dollar figure in the budget that he wants to resign LV. Is a solid if not consistent run stopping DL who is not going to become Haloti Ngata worth blowing up your plans.
This is just frustration and hindsight...we need to move on
NO.
Hindisight is 20/20 as said above. In hindsight keeping Joseph and overpaying him, not signing Beason and a handful of other garbage/injured players likely leaves the Giants with a better roster.
Passing game usually slows down across the NFL as the season goes on, making stopping the run that much more important.
I shudder to see #78 out there more often...
Think about it - for years the fans lamented the loss of two guys the loudest - Matt Stover and Olindo Mare. Two guys who weren't ever anything other than preseason competition, but people bitched and moaned like we'd royally fucked up.
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In comment 12609877 AcidTest said:
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Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
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In comment 12609913 The_Boss said:
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In comment 12609877 AcidTest said:
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Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
At this point in the year, if you think Harris' contract is crazy, then no, you don't have a clue.
Interesting that losing 5 first round picks to career ending injuries isn't factored in here, but letting Bennett "walk" is.
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In comment 12610266 BMac said:
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In comment 12609913 The_Boss said:
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In comment 12609877 AcidTest said:
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Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
At this point in the year, if you think Harris' contract is crazy, then no, you don't have a clue.
Here's why I disagree: You should be able to find players like him in the mid rounds of any given draft. A team, with little to no shot at the playoffs, should not be doling out a 5 year deal for $17.5 million ($7.1 gauranteed) to guys like Dwayne Harris. You think any of the 31 other teams would do? Again, it speaks volumes to the drafting of this franchise in the mid rounds as well as the fiscal irresponsibility. Nothing personal against Harris. I like the player.
Yup
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there are some fans on BBI who think the Giants can do no wrong.
Letting Joseph go was a mistake, and many of us said so at the time.
There was money there for both Joseph and DRC. 2014 FA Scorecard - ( New Window )
THank you Eric.
Yes. This. Reese doesn't have an easy job but if he had kept Joseph knowing he and Hankins are solid the Bromley lick could have been another DB or LB or OL. Joseph's guanratee was not out of line for a good starter. Since the DL Is a disaster why give Reese a pass.
It's an issue. And w huge cap $$ available next year it should give us pause. The Beason new deal is just icing on the cake
Now as off injured as Prince is he could have re done his deal a year ago. We have ONE good starter CB next year in DRC. If I'm an agent for a even a good CB im homdkng Reese up for big bucks.
This is a worry about Reese. His whole philosophy is to find top tier players at DL and CB and WR and even when they pan out he hasn't been able to get new heals done with all going into theirnFA years without an extension.
His three best picks on D were Linjo(gone) Prince and JPP. The next two could be gone next year. Talk depth issues. Reese has made some nice moves but letting Joseph go has had a huge ripple effect
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In comment 12610454 The_Boss said:
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In comment 12610266 BMac said:
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In comment 12609913 The_Boss said:
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In comment 12609877 AcidTest said:
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Joseph go is turning out to be the single worst FA move by Reese. He was a high round pick who had clearly earned a large, second contract. Reese apparently thought he was just another in a long line of rookie DTs he could replace. Joseph replaced Cofield, who was then replaced by Hankins. But stopping the run is critical, and why not pair him with Hankins? Two run stuffing DTs taking up blocks would make any group of DEs more effective.
People get on Reese for his poor drafts but his FA strategies leave a lot to be desired. LJ is definitely #1 in his portfolio of failure on that front. It's mind numbing that not resigning him is ahead of:
Letting Marty B walk
Signing the crappy TE who is now on Tampa
Baas
Beason
JT Thomas
Casillas
Harris' crazy contract
Beatty's crazy contract
Willing to hand out significant $$ to O'brien Schofield (luckily he failed that physical)
Newhouse
Charles Brown
(I can go on and on)
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Excuse me? There's a reason why this roster is devoid of talent and looked upon by independent talent evaluators as bottom tiered. Poor drafts are part of it, but so are the contracts I mentioned above and their effects on subsequent decisions in the years that followed. But, apparently you have all the answers....here's what's going to happen: we're going to finish either 6-10 or 7-9 this year. That should slot us somewhere between 9-15 in the upcoming draft, which is a weak one. We also will have, depending on where you get your info, between $40-$50 million in cap space. We'll also be in the market for a new head coach. Unlike the throngs of folks here, I don't trust this GM one iota to make the right moves in any capacity. Don't be telling me my business again.
At this point in the year, if you think Harris' contract is crazy, then no, you don't have a clue.
Here's why I disagree: You should be able to find players like him in the mid rounds of any given draft. A team, with little to no shot at the playoffs, should not be doling out a 5 year deal for $17.5 million ($7.1 gauranteed) to guys like Dwayne Harris. You think any of the 31 other teams would do? Again, it speaks volumes to the drafting of this franchise in the mid rounds as well as the fiscal irresponsibility. Nothing personal against Harris. I like the player.
And, for what it's worth, Dallas has adequately replaced him with Lucky Whitehead, who was an UDFA, on kick returns and by using Beasley on most punt returns. He may not get a lot of burn at WR, but only because the Dallas WR unit is deeper than the NYG.
Let's also not forget that LJ's contract would've overlapped JPP's. None of us had the foresight in thinking he would blow off part of his hand but I think it's fair to say that he was in the plans. If we can all have the hindsight ability in saying we should've kept LJ then we should have the foresight in knowing what can of restrictions that would've put on the cap of having both of them under contract not to mention Eli. Imagine what kind of scrap heap, 1 year contract, journeymen players would be on the team.
That seems like some revisionist thinking to me. Perhaps I am incorrect, but I believe the Vikings signed Joseph way before the Giants signed DRC. Seems like DRC was an after thought.
Outside of one decent return this year, Whitehead has done jack shit and Beasley fumbled away any chance they had to beat us.
If that's considered adequate yet you are bitching about some of the moves above, you have a double standard at play.
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That seems like some revisionist thinking to me. Perhaps I am incorrect, but I believe the Vikings signed Joseph way before the Giants signed DRC. Seems like DRC was an after thought.
DRC signed on March 17th, Linval on March 11th. The bidding war for DRC went on quite a bit longer, so I'm sure the Giants knew they were in the running and needed the cap dollars for DRC.
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and chose to spend big money at a higher priority, and harder position to fill in CB. Not sure what people want. Hindsight is awesome though, especially when our DLine has been decimated with injuries.
not hindsight. I said it at the time, and so did many others here.
My hindsight comment is that this has popped up again a day after we lose our best lineman. If we didn't have a Hankins injury and JPP didn't blow his hand off, our line doesn't look nearly as bad as it does now. That's what I'm talking about.
I was indifferent about LJ. I get why people were mad we didn't retain him and I understand why we used those funds elsewhere.
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Dallas has adequately replaced him with Lucky Whitehead, who was an UDFA, on kick returns and by using Beasley on most punt returns
Outside of one decent return this year, Whitehead has done jack shit and Beasley fumbled away any chance they had to beat us.
If that's considered adequate yet you are bitching about some of the moves above, you have a double standard at play.
Let's simplify this:
Yes or No answer.
Has Reese done a good job in your opinion?
I've said this before. You don't lose 5 early round picks to career ending injuries and not have a ripple effect.
To me his biggest negatives were not foreseeing the rapid decline of the OL when Snee, O'Hara and Diehl fell off a cliff and the management of the LB position. For some, they just can't get past that and crucify the guy.
I was also told there was hesitation over LJ based on personality fit, no clue how accurate it was. But their valuation was in the $4-5M range and their best guess it wouldn't be enough and they were willing to gamble.
I've said this before. You don't lose 5 early round picks to career ending injuries and not have a ripple effect.
To me his biggest negatives were not foreseeing the rapid decline of the OL when Snee, O'Hara and Diehl fell off a cliff and the management of the LB position. For some, they just can't get past that and crucify the guy.
Fair enough. I respect your opinion. I feel completely different. I will say this: I called into Francesa yesterday regarding Reese. I presented my case about the roster decay citing how both NFL.com (Bucky Brooks) and PFF slotted us in the bottom third league wide in talent. I mentioned how we were lucky to be 4-4 (he agreed) and said we'd likely finish with 6/7 wins (which he also concurred). And, while I know Mike's not the be all/end all to this debate, he essentially said if it were him, he'd blow up the entire operation as it is evident something is wrong.
They were not lucky to be 4-4. They were decidedly unlucky.
Let's say you clean house. This means Reese goes, TC goes, the coordinators probably go. But the players stay. And those that leave just mean we will start the cycle over again of restocking, now to the wants of a different coach and GM.
I'm not saying that is the wrong path - I'm just saying it isn't an easy or quick fix and you will waste eli's last prime years.
I also think people woefully underestimate exactly what impact injuries have, which is largely out of the control of the GM.
They were not lucky to be 4-4. They were decidedly unlucky.
7-4 would be pretty impressive since they've only played nine games.
It sucks that we've been in a fun since the latest SB, but we've been fortunate in the grand scheme of things and shouldn't "blow it up" because things aren't going our way. If we had half as many injuries I'd actually be somewhat confident that we can get to 9 wins and win the division.
Really. Then why draft Linjo, Austin, Hankins and Bromley. 3 2nd round picks and 1 3rd. That's. It true. He focuses on the DL. For the 100th time it's always about guaranteed $$. Joesph was give. About 10. He cousin have matched that easily and back loaded the deal. He didn't. It was t about other fish to fry. go. And if DE is so important It helps the. Immensely when the DTs collapse the pocket. He fucked up
Alos another factor IMO why cap $$$ were gone is His extensions to DD, Snee, and his two restructuring of Baas. Sound familiar? Like Beason. Extend an older player or 3 with injury histories Then he missed on guys like Sintim Austin Hosley Tracis Beckam, etc.
It's
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Many of us were ridiculed for saying they should have made him a priority signing.
You too? This is false; the Giants were not going to match what the Vikings paid. It had ZERO to do with Beason.
They don't pay a lot. Another fallacy by the Reese is perfect crowd. He got a front loaded cap deal but his guanratee was 10 million. Shit they gave Beatty 18 up front. Dude was a mediocre LT. But a very good young DT is t worth half? The why draft then high at all. Let the. Sit for a year the. When they develop in a good starter pray you don't miss in the draft? Shit be use of Austin sucking they over paid Cullen Jenkins. Who would you rather have next Sunday? Jenkins body with a fork in it or Joseph. The menu Jenkkns got could have gone to Joseph. Sure he was more but now we are carring guy who should be even be on the roster
We don't disagree with your second paragraph or with the regime's blindspots or mistakes, many of which educated fans felt were obvious even to them.
DRC has been damn good though and much more physical than expected. But I'd take Joseph over him back than and right now too.
DRC has been damn good though and much more physical than expected. But I'd take Joseph over him back than and right now too.
I wouldn't..DRC is one of the best in the league, we need that more than we need LinJo, imo
But when they signed DRC, I was not in favor of it.
But when they signed DRC, I was not in favor of it.
Which is fine, but unlike the jackasses on here, you can change your mind(for reasons you mentioned) and not stubbornly stick to the dismay over that signing at the time..
But when they signed DRC, I was not in favor of it.