He didn't hold anyone hostage. That's why you have doctors and trainers. They are supposed to make these decisions. Who knows if they fucked up somewhere along the line or not but Cruz did not hold the team hostage.
He is going to have to take a significant paycut in the off-season
He didn't hold anyone hostage. That's why you have doctors and trainers. They are supposed to make these decisions. Who knows if they fucked up somewhere along the line or not but Cruz did not hold the team hostage.
He is going to have to take a significant paycut in the off-season
You are right it is not Cruz and i am not one to usually blame a medical staff but how do they not know he needs surgery? when he had his first setback they should of put him on ir designated to return and got it cleaned up..
that he gave a "definitely" response when asked if a reporter asked if he would be back this year? The "comeback", wearing the 4-5 jordan comeback jersey - truely wanted the spotlight on him and his return and couldn't even get on the field this year. I know Cruz provided us 2 huge years and a ring and we all loved his play. But its time to realize he is not ever going to be that guy again. 2 years out of football. Cut bait and bring in young healthy pieces.
with this news, is Randle signed to a contract if the money is not outlandish? I say yes. Huge 6 games for Randle upcoming.
He hasn't played his way into big money, so it's within the realm of possibility that they might try to retain him, and he fits the profile of low-key personalities the Giants like.
That said, the way they like to draft and develop WRs they might decide it's cheaper to go another way.
One of BBI's asshats nailed it re: Cruz, Beatty, and JPP.
He didn't hold anyone hostage. That's why you have doctors and trainers. They are supposed to make these decisions. Who knows if they fucked up somewhere along the line or not but Cruz did not hold the team hostage.
He is going to have to take a significant paycut in the off-season
You are right it is not Cruz and i am not one to usually blame a medical staff but how do they not know he needs surgery? when he had his first setback they should of put him on ir designated to return and got it cleaned up..
Surgery is never the first option, ever. A doctor will always choose natural healing if that's seen as a possibility. Doctors don't operate on sports fan timeframes.
So a bad knee injury and now a bad calf injury. Do/Can/Should we cut bait on him next year? I like Harris but I wish he could get open as well as Cruz could. Maybe he can develop into a better route runner. He's certainly improving each week.
will somehow need to draft yet another wr in this draft as well, unless they believe in G Davis stepping in.
considering this myles white guy keeps trotting on to the field i would re-adjust expectations for davis. If he's not better than White than imo its a wasted pick.
RE: Don't understand why he was not put on retractable IR long ago
only because he is probably a 800-1000 yard receiver which is at least a low end to decent #2 and Harris can stay the #3. If they draft someone who can push them great.
I do think Giants will have to draft receiver or TE or sign a free agent high at this point. Need another threat to take pressure off Beckham.
Any faith in Cruz doing anything is just speculative and wishful thinking at this point.
the Victor Cruz of old. I hope he's kept up with his acting classes. You wont see him on a football field again.
Who are you kidding? They will bank on him returning to full form next year, do nothing in free agency, draft a 7th round receiver, then by week 12 when he has yet to touch the field, they will again be stumped.
Cruz has his contract, an eye on life after football, and has no motivation to push things.
I don't feel like this would be an opinion if you knew how hard it is to come back from major surgery like he did. The idea that he has checked out mentally is a pretty serious accusation to level that we wouldn't tolerate if it happened to us.
wishes Victor! Get well soon! We look forward to seeing you in 2016!
I do think he's going to have to take a pay cut. I can't imagine the Giants paying him $9M in 2016. A lot of that salary could be converted into performance bonuses. I agree with whoever said that it will be interesting to see what happens with him and Beatty in 2016.
This was a major screw up by the FO. James Jones would be on this team if Cruz had been on short term IR.
writing off his Giant's career. Didn't you learn anything from JPP.......pathetic.
In a way it might be a blessing for him and the Giants. His knee injury from what I've read normally takes 2 years to fully recover, now he will have that.
I for one will be a happy fan to see him in Giant Blue again. Some of you seem to take these things personally and spew hatred when a player lets you down.... again patheic
but you could see this coming more and more as he just wasn't finding his way on the practice field.
I see this offseason playing out very much like 2005 when the Giants were very active in free agency and went after some big targets (Plaxico, Pierce, McKenzie). With all that money to spend, I would expect to see the Giants go for a WR and DE, and draft heavy on defense.
For Cruz this is now 3 major injuries in 3 years (knee surgery after the Seattle game in 2013, knee vs. Eagles in 2014, calf in 2015). Unless he's willing to take a paycut, I don't know if we will see him back on the field again.
RE: One of BBI's asshats nailed it re: Cruz, Beatty, and JPP.
are richburg and prince. will they be back this year and if so before it's too late?
With this team, you can't guarantee any return. I always say with this team: when it's a 2 week injury, it really means 4-8 weeks; 6-8 weeks = 12-14; 10-12 weeks = never playing football again.
I think most people who took a realistic approach to what he was coming back from were hoping he could come back late this season. Unfortunately, this push to play game 1 turned out to be unrealistic. Shut it down and come in healthy next year.
Right now, Harris is a better option and playing well.
give Randle full credit for playing hurt, and contributing. But I'm reluctant to give a second contract to a player who has has tendonitis in both knees. I do think the Giants will make him an offer, but that somebody else will offer more. I'd be surprised if he's a Giant next year.
Oh my god. The democracy of this board in not necessarily a good thing. Different opinions should be retained and excessive, unrelieved, stupidity sent packing.
Seems to me that the training staff doesn't really know how to handle calf injuries.
It looks that way. But you have to wonder how much Cruz' contract influenced the decision not to put him on IR, especially when you compare it to how they handled Behre.
Cruz has his contract, an eye on life after football, and has no motivation to push things.
I don't feel like this would be an opinion if you knew how hard it is to come back from major surgery like he did. The idea that he has checked out mentally is a pretty serious accusation to level that we wouldn't tolerate if it happened to us.
I'm not accusing him or even criticizing him. It just makes sense.
Cruz is a smart, ambitious guy with irons in the fire outside of football, no one could blame him if he is starting to think about other things are going through the injuries he has. If I were his friend I'd probably advise him to take his time coming back, if he even comes back at all.
Some people here say I never admit being wrong but I was dead wrong here. I was in favor of paying both Cruz and Nicks. The Giants were smarter than me on that front, but apparently not smart enough.
but you could see this coming more and more as he just wasn't finding his way on the practice field.
I see this offseason playing out very much like 2005 when the Giants were very active in free agency and went after some big targets (Plaxico, Pierce, McKenzie). With all that money to spend, I would expect to see the Giants go for a WR and DE, and draft heavy on defense.
For Cruz this is now 3 major injuries in 3 years (knee surgery after the Seattle game in 2013, knee vs. Eagles in 2014, calf in 2015). Unless he's willing to take a paycut, I don't know if we will see him back on the field again.
Matt - agree with Cruz. He's eatting up cap space and providing zero to the team, that's the harsh fact.
He needs to do a major re-structure, or they Giants need to cut ties. We have holes to fill and Cruz is not helping.
give Randle full credit for playing hurt, and contributing. But I'm reluctant to give a second contract to a player who has has tendonitis in both knees. I do think the Giants will make him an offer, but that somebody else will offer more. I'd be surprised if he's a Giant next year.
Agreed. It's just not the hamstring......OBJ and Harris are a good start. WRs are plentiful and let's face it, this is a very friendly offense to receivers.
...but imo, his coming back would mean somebody else (who is healthy and been working every week) would probably sit...and as good as Cruz was, we need healthy guys out there...not a guy that is trying to come back from a very long injury, and who never be what he was.
Teams are having far to easy a time shutting down ODB. A difference maker along side of him would have made a huge difference for us this season. Unfortunately, an injury seems like the end of it for this team.
he knows the system and I think he's getting healthier, lets see what this last 6 games brings. We will learn about Mr Randle in a playoff push.
Even when healthy, he's not reliable. If he's willing to take a one year minimum contract than fine, but I wouldn't give him a multi-year deal with a multi-million dollar signing bonus. Also, I'm not convinced that Cruz can't come back from the calf surgery. I wouldn't simply assume his career is over. The way to complement the current group of receivers is via a 2nd-4th round draft pick, not by spending big bucks on a free agent, whether it's Randle or some other team's. At least that's how I see it.
Teams are having far to easy a time shutting down ODB. A difference maker along side of him would have made a huge difference for us this season. Unfortunately, an injury seems like the end of it for this team.
Also there's NO TIGHT END! on the team. So no big target
in the middle of the field.
Nobody does more with less than Eli Manning. Yet I'm sure the media today will be weeping over the loss of Edelman.
is gutting through a hammy. He can't even run routes at full speed yet still manages to get open a few times.
It was actually reported yesterday before the game that he was feeling very close to 100%. So after the bye he should be back to full speed and we can see what he'll give us
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN
Victor Cruz has 3 years and about $24M left on his contract. His cap number in 2016 is $9.9M. Cutting him in March would save $6.1M.
Saw his career either cut short or sidetracked by major injuries in his first five seasons. Only exceptions I can think of are Eli and Snee, and Snee was pretty much through by the age of 30.
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN
Victor Cruz has 3 years and about $24M left on his contract. His cap number in 2016 is $9.9M. Cutting him in March would save $6.1M.
We'll always have the Super Bowl run.
There's no reason to believe this is a career-ender...
Saw his career either cut short or sidetracked by major injuries in his first five seasons. Only exceptions I can think of are Eli and Snee, and Snee was pretty much through by the age of 30.
Which is why Eli will go down as the greatest Giant ever after he walks away.
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN
Victor Cruz has 3 years and about $24M left on his contract. His cap number in 2016 is $9.9M. Cutting him in March would save $6.1M.
Would seem the only way he is back is with a significant re-structuring. Such a shame, this game is cruel.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
If you think Giants are going to cut Victor Cruz without trying to work out a new deal for next year, think again.
Tom Rock @TomRock_Newsday
Giants have a history of slicing base salaries and adding incentives in contracts for injured players. Beason, JPP. Expect same for Cruz.
fact that Cruz won't play this year doesn't mean his career is over, or even his time with the Giants. He had a devastating knee injury, followed up by some calf injuries. He will have to take a major pay cut whoever he plays for, but we won't really know until this time next year whether his career is done.
Seems to me that the training staff doesn't really know how to handle calf injuries.
The training staff in general leaves a lot to be desired .... JMO. This type of mismanagement of injuries is not a freak thing or one offs...They are inept in general.
Did the guy even have a catch yesterday? Pack have lost 3 straight and look like shit. Just stfu already about this old ass wideout. Harris is outplaying him.
You don't give $6m to someone coming off knee and calf surgery. The vet minimum plus incentives or you move on. He received his whole salary for this year so it's not being vicious it's just reality!
but I have to think he takes a pay cut and ends up staying with the team. Still can't expect anything from him though and they would still have to get another outside receiver or two. Probably one free agent and one draft pick.
but I can't remember a season where there have been this many head scratching decisions both on and off the field. Granted we don't have all the available information but it is vexing.
for a few years now. But it's pretty obvious the Giants are going to hand him a HUGE paycut next year. And obviously he doesn't have much choice but to accept it. Not like anyone else is going to be offering him a damn thing coming off of two season ending injuries in a row. So, at least we'll have him playing for very, very little next season. The Giants have "earned" (so to speak) themselves that, at least.
I just don't understand how we looked at Berhe and immediately said, he is done for the year, calf.... Cruz, get's the same injury and we run through an endless comedy of errors why we pretend he will ever suit up again as a Giant.
I just don't understand how we looked at Berhe and immediately said, he is done for the year, calf.... Cruz, get's the same injury and we run through an endless comedy of errors why we pretend he will ever suit up again as a Giant.
FIRE REESE!
Oh, and James Jones, etc.
You mean to tell me that there is never a difference in severity of calf injuries?
if the Giants are going to be upset about how he announced this...i.e., it not coming from the team.
Eric,
That was my exact thought as well. They usually like to manage this message and going out and doing this via BleacherReport probably wasn't what Pat Hanlon had in mind.
This team has gambled and lost repeatedly on aging, injury prone vets. Time to stop. Keep Randle. He has his critics, but he is very young, knows the system and the QB and has played when hurt. What more can you ask for at this point. Use Cruz' money to get defensive players.
muscle ....apparently it's just below the knee and above the ankle which seems to elude the training/medical staff.
Serously though, I'm sure many of us were writing Cruz off after the knee injury, at least for this season, but this is just another blow of many on the long list of the walking wounded.
that's all fine and good, but when the Giants said he was out back in mid-August, they said it was a strain and he was day-to-day. And then for the next few weeks, the Giants and Cruz both said he'd be right back.
It was NEVER said, suggested, or implied he tore the calf muscle.
To read up on what's happening and get smacked in the face with this! Holy Fucking Shit! We are snake bitten!! I hope he heals well and can return next year, I just hope we can restructure and make it cost effective for the team.
This team has gambled and lost repeatedly on aging, injury prone vets. Time to stop. Keep Randle. He has his critics, but he is very young, knows the system and the QB and has played when hurt. What more can you ask for at this point. Use Cruz' money to get defensive players.
Keep the guy who's been hobbled all year by injuries? Seems like you're contradicting yourself. Injuries aside, Randle has been a disappointment. No reason to keep him unless he comes cheap.
that's all fine and good, but when the Giants said he was out back in mid-August, they said it was a strain and he was day-to-day. And then for the next few weeks, the Giants and Cruz both said he'd be right back.
It was NEVER said, suggested, or implied he tore the calf muscle.
A calf strain IS a tear.
How much was the team on board with tbis decision?
Cruz signed a 6-year, $45.9 million contract in July 2013. Since then, he has only played in 20 games. The salary and cap hit for Cruz in the final four years of his contract are as follows:
2015: $6.15 million salary; $8.125 million cap hit
2016: $7.9 million salary; $9.9 million cap hit
2017: $7.4 million salary; $9.4 million cap hit
2018: $8.4 million salary; $8.5 million cap hit
that's all fine and good, but when the Giants said he was out back in mid-August, they said it was a strain and he was day-to-day. And then for the next few weeks, the Giants and Cruz both said he'd be right back.
It was NEVER said, suggested, or implied he tore the calf muscle.
You do realize what a strain is, right? A partial tearing of a calf (at the very worst, a "stretching" which degrades the integrity of the muscle).
But, yeah, I'll take your medical degree on this.
You do realize that medical science is not settled, and that best practices are not definitive?
I mean, you really have to question if you have had any experience playing any form of sports if you think that recovering from muscle strains is easy, especially for a WR, whose success relies on precise route running, which puts a lot of stress on the muscles and ligaments (why do you think he's running in straight lines?). Why do you think calf injuries, hamstring injuries, and quad injuries recur quickly and often?
Go look at any major soccer league. Hamstring or calf injuries are 6-10 week injuries, because they have the luxury of long seasons. You think that's feasible in football?
Not that I want it, but I do wonder if the Giants will cut him. That's a nice cap savings, and would be quite a risk on the team's part.
+++
I know this is a rather insane thought, but I wonder what kind of shape Plaxico is in right now. I know he's 38 years old. But someone here should admit that they had the thought cross their mind even crazily and momentarily. (He's played 4 games since 2011 ... rested and ready! lol)
I see this offseason playing out very much like 2005 when the Giants were very active in free agency and went after some big targets (Plaxico, Pierce, McKenzie). With all that money to spend, I would expect to see the Giants go for a WR and DE, and draft heavy on defense.
I agree Matt. Been saying this since August more of less. I wonder if they spend money FA money on WR but for the most part agree that WR will be addressed this off-season. I could see NY targeting a WR in FA but whether they go above and beyond to actually sign the guy remains to be seen. I DO think they will go above and beyond to sign defensive players.
If you want to depress yourself compare this team to the 2005 team. There was a lot more talent on that team. Now, if you want to uplift yourself compare THIS team to the 2004 roster. This team is a lot better with DE being the lone exception. With the cap space looming and a motivated JPP who we can FT, things are looking up. This team is one more solid off-season away from fielding a 2005 type roster, maybe even better.
Today still sucks though. Sorry to miller the Cruz thread...
When he flunked that workout after the season had already started, the "second" comeback, at that point you had to assume it was serious. He couldn't even complete it. He might have made it worse.
Sure...but they NEVER implied it was a serious tear.
It doesn't have to be a serious tear.
I mean, holy shit. A muscle strain can re-aggravate quickly, even the moderate ones.
You either play it safe and wait it out (which could take months), but even that does not guarantee you a healing. Oftentimes, these muscle injuries have symptoms that disappear (like pain or tightness), but where the muscle is still compromised.
Players think they can go, and reinjure themselves. What do you think happened?
You would have been fine with VC doing nothing for months? When he is then in absolutely no shape to play football? OK...
...a massive paycut next season. Not a re-structure. A straight cut. If he won't accept it it's adios Victor. A team can't have the level of salary invested in a player that has missed essentially two seasons and can't be expected to ever be healthy again.
He was a great underdog story as an undrafted free agent making good. Unfortunately this is a business and there is no percentage in gambling on his future any longer. At least not with his current contract. I hope he agrees to take significantly less and stay to attempt to revive his career.
Nicks comes back and his career essentially ends because he's never recovered right. Same with Steve Smith. In fact, some of the people complaining about Cruz praised the Eagles for getting Smith "ready" to play. That turned out swimmingly.
The line between NFL star and has been is quite small when injuries impact either speed or quickness.
and even DE might not be thar far off from 2004-2005
we had Strahan in 2004 but a motivated JPP playing for a long term deal is a scary thing for opposing OLs. Wynn is solid if not unspectacular. Decent talent at the DT spot.
Really this team just needs to add one more legit body to each position. Some of those bodies need to be good to great but not all. Some just need to be solid.
Cruz coming back next year would be nice. Let's hope.
But even I haven't, in the 30 plus years I've followed the Giants, I can't recall ever losing one player, let alone two, for the season due to a calf injury. But keep on up with the insults. That's what you do when someone disagrees with you.
You should get slammed for erroneously comparing a
But even I haven't, in the 30 plus years I've followed the Giants, I can't recall ever losing one player, let alone two, for the season due to a calf injury. But keep on up with the insults. That's what you do when someone disagrees with you.
Insults are reserved for dumbassed opinions. Not for disagreements.
Sure nailed it right on the head on that one, like on the fact that a muscle strain is not a tear...
RE: One of BBI's asshats nailed it re: Cruz, Beatty, and JPP.
He had Beatty and Cruz both not coming back and JPP rushing back as soon as he could... and that's exactly how it played out.
Except, Cruz and Beatty were guaranteed their money for this year, while JPP didn't have a pot to piss in..Not sure how JPP would have reacted if this year's money was secure..
But even I haven't, in the 30 plus years I've followed the Giants, I can't recall ever losing one player, let alone two, for the season due to a calf injury. But keep on up with the insults. That's what you do when someone disagrees with you.
Shaun Rogers missed a season to a blood clot in his calf in 2012.
I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
Players that rely on sharp cuts often do damage to calf muscles, which can impact what they do during the season.
The stress of cuts doesn't just jump upwards to a hamstring or quad injury, which teams do a lot of work to prevent. This means that a lot of the pressure will travel downwards, to the calf...
a couple of months ago, when I posted that this had the feel of Nat Berhe all over again and got slammed on the site?
I think people should have disagreed with you - what exactly is "feel"? Two different athletes, two different sets of secondary circumstances.
You heard calf mentioned in both and you said Cruz was done for the year - the fact that you happen to be right in no way validated a flawed thought process.
I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
Not sure what to say except, idiotic?
I don't think we know all the details on this just yet
No...when they said strain and said he would be back in a few days, I took them at their word. Just like with George Selvie and Jon Casillas.
But when the days turned into weeks and yet he wasn't even running...yet they said he'd still be back...it had the Nat Behre feel all over again.
Then he comes back and can even make it through a few snaps...again just like Behre....
Then Cruz says they were going to try the PRP injections because the medical staff said, "it couldn't hurt"...again, sounded like more of the Berhe situation...confusion about what was going on.
Berhe's situation dragged on for months. Was the clot always there? Probably unlikely.
The Giants NEVER thought this was serious or they would have put him on short-term IR.
Soft tissue injuries are inherently tricky - hamstring injuries have ended careers, and yet people play through them - they all sound the same to a fan, which is why you get caterwauling about the medical staff.
Collectively, we have no idea what these athletes go through to try and get back on the field.
I think you're interpreting the lack of information
They're not going to share a lot of information with the public. It could be that what seems like confusion is just trying to piece together an incomplete picture provided by the Giants with assumptions.
I do think we need to do something more drastic here - but I'm not sure what. At first I thought maybe it was the type of players we were drafting, as we do sometimes go for guys with an injury history and hope they pan out. But even players with no history of injury in college seem to be getting nailed here, and it feels like a higher rate than elsewhere in the NFL (those injury lists would imply that's true, but I don't know how carefully put together they are and what criteria they use).
perhaps life altering blood clot to a calf strain.
We're all aggravated as hell with this season, with the non-stop injuries, year after year.
And, kicker, without complaint or doubt, you're spot on as to the difficulty, the tenuousness, of recovery from soft tissue injuries (I had a shitty season reffing because I kept coming back too soon from hamstring and wound up working about only 1/3 my normal games, frustrating beyond measure).
On the other hand, I am tempted, and did, share Eric's skepticism as to the handling of Cruz, be it by the docs or the information that the team was willing to disclose--it might be more the latter than the former?
With multiple MRIs and supposedly top shelf orthopedists, I wouldn't think that they could keep getting this so wrong, given the tenuous nature of recovery from this sort of injury is relatively well understood.
From barren rosters, to recurring injuries, to slammed expectations as to recovery of same, this regime has not been on a good run.
I'm sure he'll be back for OTAs and off-season training.....
however, he will have to probably take a pay cut. I can't imagine the Giants giving him his current salary with his questionable health. Can't be relied upon next year either and would only be a bonus if he's available. And yes, as many here have already indicated, the Giants will need at least 2 more WRs to add to the mix. Need a clear #2 and Randle is not that guy, nor should he be offered a contract by the Giants. He doesn't fight for balls, he's fairly slow-footed and is not a good #2 option for this team. Thank goodness for Harris stepping up otherwise our passing game would have gone in the shitter with OBJ getting doubled consistently.
RE: As bad as some of you are feeling for yourselves
Victor Cruz has lost time that he can never get back even if he comes back 100% healthy.
I feel bad for the team. There was real optimism that we were going to be getting major pieces of the puzzle back. That is no longer the case.
Cruz is likely done....he has been irrelevant to this team for 3 years now. Unless he comes back on the cheap...he is not coming back. They cant take the risk.
But much of the recovery depends on self-reports by the players themselves, as to the symptoms that they are feeling.
MRI's and other diagnostic techniques can only tell so much; you can play on partially torn muscles, but if it feels like it's about to give, you should probably lay off.
These guys are the ultimate competitors. They wouldn't be here if they weren't (and, perhaps, fucking with their long-term health). Should the medical staff wholly disregard their opinions as to the severity and look for 100% cure rates?
Or, if the player is telling them that they are good to go, should they do what they are doing (no cutting, straight line running) only?
I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
If you think Giants are going to cut Victor Cruz without trying to work out a new deal for next year, think again.
Tom Rock @TomRock_Newsday
Giants have a history of slicing base salaries and adding incentives in contracts for injured players. Beason, JPP. Expect same for Cruz.
No, this won't happen.
People forget that Cruz is going to be 30- and how has 2 major leg injuries in as many years.
Even if you reduce the base salary and add on years, you just turn the cap hit into an extended play issue- look at how Baas' deal hamstrung the team at the end.
The Giants are going to have massive cap space, which should not only mean bringing in FA- but to also "clean up" cap problem areas- that means Beatty, Cruz, Beason and MAYBE Jennings will get cut for TWO reasons.
The first is that the Giants either cannot depend on them due to injuries or that they are generally ineffective and thus undependable, especially at their cap figures.
The second reason is that while the remainder of their cap hit gets accelerated into next year's cap, it also preserves that money for two years out. In other words, suppose the cap hit for the above group is $10M next year. The cap treats it as guaranteed money spent. However, two years out, that space is freed up, much like a contract expiration for a FA would. The Giants could absorb any increases in salary with that money while preserving the rest of their cap space.
Short answer, say goodbye to Cruz- along with Beatty, Beason and possibly Jennings after this season. It is just cap management- and the Giants need to proactively address future issues now that they have cap space.
No...when they said strain and said he would be back in a few days, I took them at their word. Just like with George Selvie and Jon Casillas.
But when the days turned into weeks and yet he wasn't even running...yet they said he'd still be back...it had the Nat Behre feel all over again.
Then he comes back and can even make it through a few snaps...again just like Behre....
Then Cruz says they were going to try the PRP injections because the medical staff said, "it couldn't hurt"...again, sounded like more of the Berhe situation...confusion about what was going on.
Berhe's situation dragged on for months. Was the clot always there? Probably unlikely.
The Giants NEVER thought this was serious or they would have put him on short-term IR.
personally with how the division is shaping up , I think they forced/rushed their players back.
personally with how the division is shaping up , I think they forced/rushed their players back.
That'd be quite a lawsuit and pretty tough to believe.
Despite what fans think, players almost always want to come back and play, to the point where it's detrimental to their health. It's usually the doctors that have to reign them in and prevent that.
But much of the recovery depends on self-reports by the players themselves, as to the symptoms that they are feeling.
MRI's and other diagnostic techniques can only tell so much....
Should the medical staff wholly disregard their opinions as to the severity and look for 100% cure rates?
Or, if the player is telling them that they are good to go, should they do what they are doing (no cutting, straight line running) only?
Good questions, and where we might disagree, or where I might not understand well is the diagnostic and predictive utility of MRIs (I've had my share). I think the MRI is able to identify blood pooling in the muscle and lesions and tears, so that should be essential input to a clinical evaluation.
The other component as you say is the self-reporting by the player. I'm not sure what Cruz was dreaming or smoking, but I know for damn certain when there is lingering soreness--that SPOT--in my hammy or calf that is still not quite right. It's unmistakeable, and as the player eases back into activity, slowly ramping up the force of exertion of the muscle, the signs should be there.
I'm still at a loss to explain or understand the setback here, that is, how it could be so complete and so unexpected, even if Cruz' availability this season (knee) was always a question.
I think part of the problem is that we are relying
on self-interested releases by players and by the team.
You don't want to tell your opponents "nope, no chance VC can even come back to play in the next few weeks, so don't worry about it", and play the fans and media like the fiddle that they are.
Hard work and diligent rehab attmpts don't change the fact they can't rely on VC to play football games. He makes an elite salary he hasn't earned for two years.
We'll see how his ego deals with the harsh financial realities he will face this coming offseason. That will determine if he reamins a Giant.
But much of the recovery depends on self-reports by the players themselves, as to the symptoms that they are feeling.
MRI's and other diagnostic techniques can only tell so much....
Should the medical staff wholly disregard their opinions as to the severity and look for 100% cure rates?
Or, if the player is telling them that they are good to go, should they do what they are doing (no cutting, straight line running) only?
Good questions, and where we might disagree, or where I might not understand well is the diagnostic and predictive utility of MRIs (I've had my share). I think the MRI is able to identify blood pooling in the muscle and lesions and tears, so that should be essential input to a clinical evaluation.
The other component as you say is the self-reporting by the player. I'm not sure what Cruz was dreaming or smoking, but I know for damn certain when there is lingering soreness--that SPOT--in my hammy or calf that is still not quite right. It's unmistakeable, and as the player eases back into activity, slowly ramping up the force of exertion of the muscle, the signs should be there.
I'm still at a loss to explain or understand the setback here, that is, how it could be so complete and so unexpected, even if Cruz' availability this season (knee) was always a question.
And you are absolutely right that the diagnostic tests can help determine the nature of the injury.
But unless you are waiting for a full recovery, doctors oftentimes use their patient's inputs to assess if they can start to utilize the muscle in non-rehabilitative ways.
For instance, the calf may still be structurally unsound, but if there are no sizable, lingering, effects, the player may be able to start running on it.
Nicks comes back and his career essentially ends because he's never recovered right. Same with Steve Smith. In fact, some of the people complaining about Cruz praised the Eagles for getting Smith "ready" to play. That turned out swimmingly.
The line between NFL star and has been is quite small when injuries impact either speed or quickness.
The line might be smaller than it's ever been, and college players may be as prepared for the pros as they've ever been. To me it points to bring stingy in giving top tier players players like Cruz top tier second contracts.
There's just so much working against a player having a consistently successful career for longer than two or three years.
Beatty's injury in the weight room
there is zero reason a professional athlete in a teams facility would end up with an injury like this
so this one is completely on the training staff
Cruz comes back from major knee surgery but somehow injuries other leg
once again this points to improper guidance from training staff in his rehab ..
Meanwhile - JPP completely shut out Giants training staff for his rehab
and he is the only one to get back on the field
nothing wrong with giving big contracts to proven players. its about structure. the bengals are being lauded for 'pay-for-performance' structured contracts - a lot like jpp's - with low guaranteed $$$.
4 straight playoff seasons. about to make it 5.
if they can convince guys to come to cincy, it will work here to.
Let's say that the plan was for Cruz to miss this year from the beginning. He had a terrible knee injury and I think we were all surprised he was even trying to make it back to camp. Let's say he had been ruled out for the year from the get go.
Would that change how everyone perceives next year? Or would everyone still want to cut him?
Zero reason Beatty should have injured his pec in the weight room?
Beatty's injury in the weight room
there is zero reason a professional athlete in a teams facility would end up with an injury like this
so this one is completely on the training staff
Cruz comes back from major knee surgery but somehow injuries other leg
once again this points to improper guidance from training staff in his rehab ..
Meanwhile - JPP completely shut out Giants training staff for his rehab
and he is the only one to get back on the field
JPP is the only one who had a financial incentive to make it back. FWIW
and Reese seems to agree with the second contract hesitation
JPP is the only one who had a financial incentive to make it back. FWIW
I disagree with this premise .. Cruz had a doc on Showtime that was entirely geared toward him making triumphant return to the field -
not getting back to play he damaged the Cruz brand which is worth $$$$$
in addition both Cruz and Beatty have big contracts and they will have to both take pay cuts because they did not get on the field this year.
JPP blew off his hand and refused to meet with Giant trainers
a few articles implied he had the way the Giants dealt with his post back surgery rehab .
and it is looking like JPP's decision was the correct one
I think it is safe to say that pur offense can hang with any team in the NFL, even with the patchwork o-line and Cruz done for the year and probably the worst TEs in the league. They can score points and I believe will get better as the year goes on.
If Ayers and Moore and JPP can get the rush going and if Prince comes back strong which I do expect, we may have a defense that can make noise in the playoffs.
Now we do need to avoid bad injuries and to actually make the playoffs.
The NFL owes us some calls on the field in cruch time.
that being said, it is really hard to plan your team around guys that don't make it on the field. Clearly, they would have been more active in finding a slot guy this year if they thought that he wouldn't show up at all.
Can't depend on him to play next year. However, how do you attract a legitimate player at that position unless they see a clear path to playing time? Best case, seems like you have to plan on him being your 4th WR and the pay has to reflect that.
...is that the Giants are absolute fucking liars when it comes to injuries. And in many cases needlessly so; it's not like Cruz (or Beatty) were close to playing and opponents were game-planning around them.
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN
... The exact nature of Cruz's injury is still unclear. Clearly it's more than a calf strain. Don't know if it always has been. We'll see.
I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
I really hope you rupture your patella tendon someday. And while you're in excruciating pain, and your kneecap is in your thigh, don't forget to give everyone around you the thumbs up, or else some moron on the Internet will think less of you.
Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
For some, the work day doesn't end. It continues potentially 24/7 due to being able to work at clients, at home, in the car, anywhere. At least that is my experience so I jump on and off when I have a window.
Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
I love this type of uninformed narrative. I bet you think Cruz has just been taking it easy on his rehab and hanging out at the country club, right?
I love Victor Cruz but you cannot pay him anything further substantial considering he has done pretty much nothing two straight seasons. No other team will give him anything close to guaranteed money of what he would ask for.
Cruz is going to have to swallow a bit of ego and take a restructured deal with lots of incentives and low guaranteed money. He's made a lot of money the last three years. Giants have more than paid him for his two years where he was low cost but a high production threat.
Giants need to pour some money into their defense in a bad way and potentially add another threat at TE or WR.
You simply cannot bank on Cruz going forward either on the field or off the field in terms of allocating your cap dollars. This team probably has about a 3 yr window if used correctly going forward starting next year with Eli still in the mix as our QB.
Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
I love this type of uninformed narrative. I bet you think Cruz has just been taking it easy on his rehab and hanging out at the country club, right?
Uninformed please.. I been a member of this site since 2005. I never Cruz wasn't rehabbing. I just feel that his rehab wasn't his priority. His off the field endeavors were his priority.
...is that the Giants are absolute fucking liars when it comes to injuries. And in many cases needlessly so; it's not like Cruz (or Beatty) were close to playing and opponents were game-planning around them.
Liars? Or giving out info on a need-to-know basis?
You girls need to un-knot your panties. Some information you just are not privy to. Simply.
If you can surmise that much from his social media
Except, Cruz and Beatty were guaranteed their money for this year, while JPP didn't have a pot to piss in..Not sure how JPP would have reacted if this year's money was secure..
And why didn't JPP have a pot to piss in? All he had to do was sign the tender for 14M, but he was greedy, and then stupid......as it stands he is still getting paid the same, for games played.....we just paid him 1.8M for 2 tackles in 2 games.....oh, yeah, that was worth it....
Ebenezer Samuel @ebenezersamuel Rutherford, NJ
Coughlin on Cruz: "The information was pretty well kept from me until today...very disappointing and I feel very badly for Victor."
Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
I love this type of uninformed narrative. I bet you think Cruz has just been taking it easy on his rehab and hanging out at the country club, right?
Uninformed please.. I been a member of this site since 2005. I never Cruz wasn't rehabbing. I just feel that his rehab wasn't his priority. His off the field endeavors were his priority.
You have no clue about his rehabbing..Just a far afield opinion on it..
I'm certainly not one to question one's work ethic
And I do believe victor worked like an animal in the offseason to get back (I didn't see the documentary). With that said, those who are expressing concern over where his interests lie these days and his desire to be the center of attention (ie documentary, fashion shows, wearing his Jordan comeback jersey arriving to training camp, making this season ending announcement outside of the team spokespeople) are not off base. I wouldn't lose sleep if we cut bait.
I'm sure the Instagram revenue stream would bring in a shitload more than a contract would.
Shaking my head at the nonsensical view of players taking it ewasy during rehab, especially to promote an endeavor that would bring in far less than a new contract.
And again, I guess Nicks was just a lazy bastard in a contract year, afterall, there are many on BBI who swore that to be true.
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN
Coughlin said "We'lll obviously have to have some medical opinions" on whether Victor Cruz has a future with the Giants.
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz
Coughlin on Cruz: "He's young, but he's struggling with a health issue."
25.5M for 5 tds, and about 100 receptions....that's about 1/4 of a million per catch.....
If the Giants do not restructure him into a performance contract next year, they are crazy, and haven't learned their lesson......making him a post June 1 cut, we save 8M over the next two years....
The holes are increasing instead of decreasing on this roster, with the possible departure of Beason, Beatty, Cruz, JPP, Schwartz, Prince, etc......remember, the Giants have about 22-29 UFA/ERFA's on this roster.....
This isn't going to be a popular opinion but the Giants are going to need to resign jpp (if not a dominant pass rusher) and prince. All the rest can take a hike.
A total joke that a "calf strain" somehow turned into a season ending injury and a waste of a roster spot.
I do NOT want to cut bait on Cruz - he is the missing element this offense needs, if healthy - BUT the Giants MUST use this opportunity to restructure his contract.
writing off his Giant's career. Didn't you learn anything from JPP.......pathetic.
In a way it might be a blessing for him and the Giants. His knee injury from what I've read normally takes 2 years to fully recover, now he will have that.
I for one will be a happy fan to see him in Giant Blue again. Some of you seem to take these things personally and spew hatred when a player lets you down.... again patheic
I agree with this entire post except for the blessing in disguise post. This does suck, though I see what you mean in terms of Cruz being fully back next year.
But yes, it's amazing to see all the "CUT BAIT" posts after JPP just proved that he's still a valuable piece. This team is playing well for how banged up they are. I have some pretty high hopes for next year, and I think we do have an outside shot of catching lightning in a bottle this year anyway.
I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
You're a fucking idiot. Someone needs to cap you in the fucking knee, you scumbag. You're gonna get on him for crying? Someone needs to go Kerrigan on your fucking knee, dipshit.
You should be banned on principal alone. Fuck you.
And he was EASILY a #1B type WR. Please, tear your fucking patella tendon, you deserve it. Hopefully I can see it happen and be waiting for your thumbs up, dickhead.
JPP if the tensions between both sides ease a bit on the injury and his money demands come down a bit is striking me as a bigger possibility coming back than Prince.
pretty chippy in here. Disappointing. People think their manhood is in jeopardy if somebody offers a different opinion or analysis.
Cruz should have been put on short term IR to start the season. He was coming back from a major knee injury, and his first calf problem had already appeared in August IIRC. The whole rationale for cutting Jones was because he'd be the fourth WR. But Cruz was never going to start the season, and the coaches knew that Randle has tendonitis in both knees. He's been gimpy the whole season, although part of that is because of a bad hamstring. It was ridiculous to assume that Jones would therefore only be the #4 WR.
As far as the future is concerned, Cruz will be asked to take a major pay cut, with some of it being given back as performance incentives. Somebody else posted a statement from Art Stapelton to that effect.
I get it, you're upset with the (habitual) difficult loss, but for God's sake many here to need to step away and get yourselves together rather than spew stupidity and vent ugly here.
i think cruz, prince, beatty all see the door next season. guys cannot stay on the field. sorry but we need some people we can rely on. while i get todays NFL is rough and its hard to stay healthy, these season ending injuries are devastating. i mean how do you expect to compete with prince(arguably best man corner) cruz(slot WR, chain mover, biug play maker) beatty( most consistent OL) hankins(best DT, run stuffer) beason(starting MLB) jpp( best DL, pass rusher) i mean thats a lot of money to be missing most if not all of this season
Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
You know it takes merely seconds to post something on Instagram?
The 'golden parachute opens. What have we gotten from
the "salsa king" since he signed ? Nothing thats what. This is becoming common place in this league. We need a new management team and a new approach to evaluating and signing these 2nd contract guys. Once signed they are always injured never play.
It's time for the Giants to start acting like the professional sports franchise they are.
It was fun while it lasted with his dances but it's over. Time to move on. Invest in linemen and find WR's who are competent and coachable instead of game-breakers. We have the QB to make them.
TMS the Giants are quite choosy who they extend second contracts too
They have probably one of the lower percentages in the NFL. If you try and tell us you were concerned with VC's character at the time he was extended you're lying. He was a model citizen on and off the field. All around dumb post.
I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
You're a fucking idiot. Someone needs to cap you in the fucking knee, you scumbag. You're gonna get on him for crying? Someone needs to go Kerrigan on your fucking knee, dipshit.
You should be banned on principal alone. Fuck you.
And he was EASILY a #1B type WR. Please, tear your fucking patella tendon, you deserve it. Hopefully I can see it happen and be waiting for your thumbs up, dickhead.
Wow.......extremely intelligent and well thought out post. Is threatening ones health not a bannable offense? Yikes!
I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
You're a fucking idiot. Someone needs to cap you in the fucking knee, you scumbag. You're gonna get on him for crying? Someone needs to go Kerrigan on your fucking knee, dipshit.
You should be banned on principal alone. Fuck you.
And he was EASILY a #1B type WR. Please, tear your fucking patella tendon, you deserve it. Hopefully I can see it happen and be waiting for your thumbs up, dickhead.
Wow.......extremely intelligent and well thought out post. Is threatening ones health not a bannable offense? Yikes!
I've made tons of posts on BBI and pretty much never gone over the top like that, but sorry, that steaming pile of shit post that basically calls an NFL player a pussy for showing emotion after undergoing an excruciatingly debilitating injury that could have potentially ruined his career deserves for the poster to be called out for how he'd react if something remotely similar happened to him.
"Yikes!!" my ass. It was a scumbag post filled with false masculinity and bravado. If someone is going to say it was "embarrassing to all" to watch a player get emotional after his knee is torn to shreds, and write it off as a "crying bitchfest", then fuck it, I want to see how they'd handle after tearing their patella and potentially seeing their life dream and rags to riches story end.
Not to mention it was totally asinine football wise. To even imply that Steve Smith was close to Cruz is fucking laughable. I will never act like an injured football player is somehow personally insulting them.
It only makes sense to cut him if his pay will not be adjusted. If he will take a pay cut or an incentive deal, what's the benefit of cutting him? If he won't budge, then yes, he cannot stay on the team for that salary, as much as it pains me to say it.
RE: TMS the Giants are quite choosy who they extend second contracts too
They have probably one of the lower percentages in the NFL. If you try and tell us you were concerned with VC's character at the time he was extended you're lying. He was a model citizen on and off the field. All around dumb post.
. Agree he has interviewed and said all the right things just like before. But he looks like he is taking the parachute now. Says all the right things but never plays .He took a big beating after Nicks disappeared and has not been the same since. Doubt he ever will be. MO
Tom Rock Retweeted
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 38m38 minutes ago
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Tom Rock
That means tear is in the calf muscle.
Difficult to stitch muscle, doesn't hold a suture.
Unusual to need surgery.
I really wish people stop giving this ass clown doctor the attention he's looking for. As stated before, he's lucky he still has a license (for now).
He doesn't know anymore than what the giants know, yet he talks in definitives like he is performing the surgery. Did you see how much shit he threw against the wall with the jpp injury until something stuck?
Tom Rock Retweeted
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 38m38 minutes ago
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Tom Rock
That means tear is in the calf muscle.
Difficult to stitch muscle, doesn't hold a suture.
Unusual to need surgery.
I really wish people stop giving this ass clown doctor the attention he's looking for. As stated before, he's lucky he still has a license (for now).
He doesn't know anymore than what the giants know, yet he talks in definitives like he is performing the surgery. Did you see how much shit he threw against the wall with the jpp injury until something stuck?
Are you a doctor and can give a professional opinion on what he is saying? Just saying...
Tom Rock Retweeted
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 38m38 minutes ago
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Tom Rock
That means tear is in the calf muscle.
Difficult to stitch muscle, doesn't hold a suture.
Unusual to need surgery.
I really wish people stop giving this ass clown doctor the attention he's looking for. As stated before, he's lucky he still has a license (for now).
He doesn't know anymore than what the giants know, yet he talks in definitives like he is performing the surgery. Did you see how much shit he threw against the wall with the jpp injury until something stuck?
Are you a doctor and can give a professional opinion on what he is saying? Just saying...
What David said. Guy's malpractice list is longer than his list of accomplishments. Therefore, yes, his medical judgement should be questioned. And until he's actually examining the player in question, then he is just speculating like everyone else. The problem with that is he is using medical background to supply improper information and then take take that wrong info and run with it. It's just irresponsible. Kind of like how he practices medicine.
WTF did Cruz do to deserve this type of shit from "fans"? He had a severe injury and suffered multiple setbacks. If the notion here is that he's milking the injury and only focusing on other opportunities, you are a piece of shit.
As proof of a players rehab is an absolute moron. As much as I can believe that there are that many idiots out there, it still amazes me how often they surface on these types of threads.
What's even funnier is his Instagram account shows him rehabbing from time to time.
everything asked of him..What he does on his spare time is his business..If there was a problem TC would have taken care of it..Cruz models, sponsors sneakers etc on his SPARE time..Hardy beats women in his
media career Tiki ( i mean Victor).
Once again FU. Lets see how it plays out ?
WTF did Cruz do to deserve this type of shit from "fans"? He had a severe injury and suffered multiple setbacks. If the notion here is that he's milking the injury and only focusing on other opportunities, you are a piece of shit.
Not surprised you're too stupid to use the reply function
correctly. You're telling me to fuck myself for not waiting to see how things play out, but yet you're posting garbage about how Cruz is milking his injury. You're a fucking clown, TMS.
But with a major knee operation, now a torn calf it is hard to imagine the Giants bringing him back unless he takes a major pay cut. Even then I would tend to look at Harris as the slot receiver, ODB on the outside and Randle or someone else on the outside.
Victor Cruz of the Giants missed the final 10 games last year with a torn patellar tendon. He has missed the first 10 games of 2015 with a strained calf muscle. Drawing a line of demarcation, in Cruzs career, on the October night in Philadelphia when he tore up his knee:
Cruz played in 55 of his first 70 regular season games with the Giants and for his 24 touchdowns was paid $6.06 million.
He played on 0 of his next 20 regular season games and despite no TDs (or catches) he was paid $8.8 million.
But: no Cruz and Nicks, no Super Bowl 46.
no Burress and Smith, no Super Bowl 42.
All else is forgiven.
Poor Steve Smith rose and fell so quickly and was even cheated out of his biggest reception as a Giant. The Giants winning touchdown drive in SB 42 has been and will be replayed lots and lots.
But no one ever shows the play before the Burress TD catch, where Steve Smith converted a 3rd and 11 by taking a short toss from Manning and using his smarts and his quickness to get up the sideline to just past the first down marker just before the Patriot DB unloaded on him.
He didn't hold anyone hostage. That's why you have doctors and trainers. They are supposed to make these decisions. Who knows if they fucked up somewhere along the line or not but Cruz did not hold the team hostage.
He is going to have to take a significant paycut in the off-season
Quote:
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He didn't hold anyone hostage. That's why you have doctors and trainers. They are supposed to make these decisions. Who knows if they fucked up somewhere along the line or not but Cruz did not hold the team hostage.
He is going to have to take a significant paycut in the off-season
You are right it is not Cruz and i am not one to usually blame a medical staff but how do they not know he needs surgery? when he had his first setback they should of put him on ir designated to return and got it cleaned up..
^^^^ This
He hasn't played his way into big money, so it's within the realm of possibility that they might try to retain him, and he fits the profile of low-key personalities the Giants like.
That said, the way they like to draft and develop WRs they might decide it's cheaper to go another way.
Quote:
In comment 12626098 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
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He didn't hold anyone hostage. That's why you have doctors and trainers. They are supposed to make these decisions. Who knows if they fucked up somewhere along the line or not but Cruz did not hold the team hostage.
He is going to have to take a significant paycut in the off-season
You are right it is not Cruz and i am not one to usually blame a medical staff but how do they not know he needs surgery? when he had his first setback they should of put him on ir designated to return and got it cleaned up..
Surgery is never the first option, ever. A doctor will always choose natural healing if that's seen as a possibility. Doctors don't operate on sports fan timeframes.
Ironically, if Cruz had been on IR, the whole Jones/Parker debacle would never have happened.
They will have to grab one in free agency and the draft. Randle is horseshit and should walk. Who's next? Nobody.
considering this myles white guy keeps trotting on to the field i would re-adjust expectations for davis. If he's not better than White than imo its a wasted pick.
Ironically, if Cruz had been on IR, the whole Jones/Parker debacle would never have happened.
Not only do they mismanage the clock, they mismanage roster positions.
This. As much as DE is a priority, I think WR is even higher.
Beatty is not motivated to show the league he can play a position less lucrative than left tackle.
Cruz has his contract, an eye on life after football, and has no motivation to push things.
Giving players a second contract in this league looks worse and worse every year.
I do think Giants will have to draft receiver or TE or sign a free agent high at this point. Need another threat to take pressure off Beckham.
Any faith in Cruz doing anything is just speculative and wishful thinking at this point.
So nice to have such a large window of productive years from these guys.
Who are you kidding? They will bank on him returning to full form next year, do nothing in free agency, draft a 7th round receiver, then by week 12 when he has yet to touch the field, they will again be stumped.
Cruz has his contract, an eye on life after football, and has no motivation to push things.
I don't feel like this would be an opinion if you knew how hard it is to come back from major surgery like he did. The idea that he has checked out mentally is a pretty serious accusation to level that we wouldn't tolerate if it happened to us.
I do think he's going to have to take a pay cut. I can't imagine the Giants paying him $9M in 2016. A lot of that salary could be converted into performance bonuses. I agree with whoever said that it will be interesting to see what happens with him and Beatty in 2016.
This was a major screw up by the FO. James Jones would be on this team if Cruz had been on short term IR.
I wonder who will get his roster spot.
aka ruben randles clone?
In a way it might be a blessing for him and the Giants. His knee injury from what I've read normally takes 2 years to fully recover, now he will have that.
I for one will be a happy fan to see him in Giant Blue again. Some of you seem to take these things personally and spew hatred when a player lets you down.... again patheic
I see this offseason playing out very much like 2005 when the Giants were very active in free agency and went after some big targets (Plaxico, Pierce, McKenzie). With all that money to spend, I would expect to see the Giants go for a WR and DE, and draft heavy on defense.
For Cruz this is now 3 major injuries in 3 years (knee surgery after the Seattle game in 2013, knee vs. Eagles in 2014, calf in 2015). Unless he's willing to take a paycut, I don't know if we will see him back on the field again.
Still can't believe it - out of the bunch, Beason, Cruz, Beatty and JPP, I never would have guessed JPP would be the last man standing. Good for him.
All this negativity does not help the Giants with their SB quest
news flash- Parker is playing the position far better than Cruz did his last year or two
With this team, you can't guarantee any return. I always say with this team: when it's a 2 week injury, it really means 4-8 weeks; 6-8 weeks = 12-14; 10-12 weeks = never playing football again.
Right now, Harris is a better option and playing well.
sucks man
It looks that way. But you have to wonder how much Cruz' contract influenced the decision not to put him on IR, especially when you compare it to how they handled Behre.
NoPeanutz - who?
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Cruz has his contract, an eye on life after football, and has no motivation to push things.
I don't feel like this would be an opinion if you knew how hard it is to come back from major surgery like he did. The idea that he has checked out mentally is a pretty serious accusation to level that we wouldn't tolerate if it happened to us.
I'm not accusing him or even criticizing him. It just makes sense.
Cruz is a smart, ambitious guy with irons in the fire outside of football, no one could blame him if he is starting to think about other things are going through the injuries he has. If I were his friend I'd probably advise him to take his time coming back, if he even comes back at all.
Some people here say I never admit being wrong but I was dead wrong here. I was in favor of paying both Cruz and Nicks. The Giants were smarter than me on that front, but apparently not smart enough.
I see this offseason playing out very much like 2005 when the Giants were very active in free agency and went after some big targets (Plaxico, Pierce, McKenzie). With all that money to spend, I would expect to see the Giants go for a WR and DE, and draft heavy on defense.
For Cruz this is now 3 major injuries in 3 years (knee surgery after the Seattle game in 2013, knee vs. Eagles in 2014, calf in 2015). Unless he's willing to take a paycut, I don't know if we will see him back on the field again.
Matt - agree with Cruz. He's eatting up cap space and providing zero to the team, that's the harsh fact.
He needs to do a major re-structure, or they Giants need to cut ties. We have holes to fill and Cruz is not helping.
Agreed. It's just not the hamstring......OBJ and Harris are a good start. WRs are plentiful and let's face it, this is a very friendly offense to receivers.
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another Giant lcoker room leader's career cut short by the Cowboys.
NoPeanutz - who?
Justin Tuck comes to mind. IIRC Fat Flozell tripped him on opening night after the Supe, and he was never the same.
Victor Cruz's cap hit next season is $9.9 million. It seems very possible that we've seen the last of him as a Giant.
Also there's NO TIGHT END! on the team. So no big target
in the middle of the field.
Nobody does more with less than Eli Manning. Yet I'm sure the media today will be weeping over the loss of Edelman.
It was actually reported yesterday before the game that he was feeling very close to 100%. So after the bye he should be back to full speed and we can see what he'll give us
Victor Cruz has 3 years and about $24M left on his contract. His cap number in 2016 is $9.9M. Cutting him in March would save $6.1M.
Victor Cruz has 3 years and about $24M left on his contract. His cap number in 2016 is $9.9M. Cutting him in March would save $6.1M.
We'll always have the Super Bowl run.
Which is why Eli will go down as the greatest Giant ever after he walks away.
Victor Cruz has 3 years and about $24M left on his contract. His cap number in 2016 is $9.9M. Cutting him in March would save $6.1M.
Would seem the only way he is back is with a significant re-structuring. Such a shame, this game is cruel.
What bull.
If you think Giants are going to cut Victor Cruz without trying to work out a new deal for next year, think again.
Tom Rock @TomRock_Newsday
Giants have a history of slicing base salaries and adding incentives in contracts for injured players. Beason, JPP. Expect same for Cruz.
The training staff in general leaves a lot to be desired .... JMO. This type of mismanagement of injuries is not a freak thing or one offs...They are inept in general.
obviously he needs to take a massive pay-cut but i think he'll realize this and not want to move away.
if he's ready to play next year he could kill us in a DAL or PHI uniform
$16.175 million combined cap number for Cruz and Beatty in 2015. That's 11.3% of the total cap space.
Zero snaps.
Tough to overcome that.
I'm on to you Eli. >:)
Ssssshhhhh!!!
I'm on to you Eli. >:)
It could have been anyone. Reese, The Rug, TC, Chris Mara, Flounder...
FIRE REESE!
Oh, and James Jones, etc.
Since signing his 6-year, $45.9 million contract in July 2013, Victor Cruz has played in only 20 games.
FIRE REESE!
Oh, and James Jones, etc.
You mean to tell me that there is never a difference in severity of calf injuries?
Interesting.
[Really, who didn't see this coming]
So nice to have such a large window of productive years from these guys.
People don't seem to understand, how these injuries to star players, keep setting this team back.
Here's an idea; tear your calf, and see how quickly you can recover, from even a mild ailment. Not doing anything.
Eric,
That was my exact thought as well. They usually like to manage this message and going out and doing this via BleacherReport probably wasn't what Pat Hanlon had in mind.
He will be 30 next 11/11.
Totally hope I am wrong, but GIANTS>INJURIES>CAREER END.
I do think it is very odd that JPP turned his back on Giants training staff after his accident and he the only one of our players back this year
Serously though, I'm sure many of us were writing Cruz off after the knee injury, at least for this season, but this is just another blow of many on the long list of the walking wounded.
It was NEVER said, suggested, or implied he tore the calf muscle.
Keep the guy who's been hobbled all year by injuries? Seems like you're contradicting yourself. Injuries aside, Randle has been a disappointment. No reason to keep him unless he comes cheap.
It was NEVER said, suggested, or implied he tore the calf muscle.
A calf strain IS a tear.
2015: $6.15 million salary; $8.125 million cap hit
2016: $7.9 million salary; $9.9 million cap hit
2017: $7.4 million salary; $9.4 million cap hit
2018: $8.4 million salary; $8.5 million cap hit
It was NEVER said, suggested, or implied he tore the calf muscle.
You do realize what a strain is, right? A partial tearing of a calf (at the very worst, a "stretching" which degrades the integrity of the muscle).
But, yeah, I'll take your medical degree on this.
You do realize that medical science is not settled, and that best practices are not definitive?
I mean, you really have to question if you have had any experience playing any form of sports if you think that recovering from muscle strains is easy, especially for a WR, whose success relies on precise route running, which puts a lot of stress on the muscles and ligaments (why do you think he's running in straight lines?). Why do you think calf injuries, hamstring injuries, and quad injuries recur quickly and often?
Go look at any major soccer league. Hamstring or calf injuries are 6-10 week injuries, because they have the luxury of long seasons. You think that's feasible in football?
Still no mention of it on giants.com. I wonder if the team found out thru the video posted on bleacher report.
Not that I want it, but I do wonder if the Giants will cut him. That's a nice cap savings, and would be quite a risk on the team's part.
+++
I know this is a rather insane thought, but I wonder what kind of shape Plaxico is in right now. I know he's 38 years old. But someone here should admit that they had the thought cross their mind even crazily and momentarily. (He's played 4 games since 2011 ... rested and ready! lol)
I agree Matt. Been saying this since August more of less. I wonder if they spend money FA money on WR but for the most part agree that WR will be addressed this off-season. I could see NY targeting a WR in FA but whether they go above and beyond to actually sign the guy remains to be seen. I DO think they will go above and beyond to sign defensive players.
If you want to depress yourself compare this team to the 2005 team. There was a lot more talent on that team. Now, if you want to uplift yourself compare THIS team to the 2004 roster. This team is a lot better with DE being the lone exception. With the cap space looming and a motivated JPP who we can FT, things are looking up. This team is one more solid off-season away from fielding a 2005 type roster, maybe even better.
Today still sucks though. Sorry to miller the Cruz thread...
It doesn't have to be a serious tear.
I mean, holy shit. A muscle strain can re-aggravate quickly, even the moderate ones.
You either play it safe and wait it out (which could take months), but even that does not guarantee you a healing. Oftentimes, these muscle injuries have symptoms that disappear (like pain or tightness), but where the muscle is still compromised.
Players think they can go, and reinjure themselves. What do you think happened?
You would have been fine with VC doing nothing for months? When he is then in absolutely no shape to play football? OK...
it gives you something to do
He was a great underdog story as an undrafted free agent making good. Unfortunately this is a business and there is no percentage in gambling on his future any longer. At least not with his current contract. I hope he agrees to take significantly less and stay to attempt to revive his career.
The line between NFL star and has been is quite small when injuries impact either speed or quickness.
Really this team just needs to add one more legit body to each position. Some of those bodies need to be good to great but not all. Some just need to be solid.
Cruz coming back next year would be nice. Let's hope.
And I don't think you've played a lick of sports if you think that this was mismanagement...
Two different things.
A blood clot and a muscle tear are handled differently. One is life threatening, in fact.
That is very uncommon, and yet most likely unrelated to any training methods or treatments.
With that, he has to cooperate and allow the Giants to gain back salary in order to improve the team. Incentive based contract, make good.
If he says no, I'd cut him.
It's really that easy.
But even I haven't, in the 30 plus years I've followed the Giants, I can't recall ever losing one player, let alone two, for the season due to a calf injury. But keep on up with the insults. That's what you do when someone disagrees with you.
But even I haven't, in the 30 plus years I've followed the Giants, I can't recall ever losing one player, let alone two, for the season due to a calf injury. But keep on up with the insults. That's what you do when someone disagrees with you.
Insults are reserved for dumbassed opinions. Not for disagreements.
Sure nailed it right on the head on that one, like on the fact that a muscle strain is not a tear...
Except, Cruz and Beatty were guaranteed their money for this year, while JPP didn't have a pot to piss in..Not sure how JPP would have reacted if this year's money was secure..
But even I haven't, in the 30 plus years I've followed the Giants, I can't recall ever losing one player, let alone two, for the season due to a calf injury. But keep on up with the insults. That's what you do when someone disagrees with you.
Shaun Rogers missed a season to a blood clot in his calf in 2012.
Players that rely on sharp cuts often do damage to calf muscles, which can impact what they do during the season.
The stress of cuts doesn't just jump upwards to a hamstring or quad injury, which teams do a lot of work to prevent. This means that a lot of the pressure will travel downwards, to the calf...
I think people should have disagreed with you - what exactly is "feel"? Two different athletes, two different sets of secondary circumstances.
You heard calf mentioned in both and you said Cruz was done for the year - the fact that you happen to be right in no way validated a flawed thought process.
His situation is chronic and irreversable. How would rest have helped?
Not sure what to say except, idiotic?
But when the days turned into weeks and yet he wasn't even running...yet they said he'd still be back...it had the Nat Behre feel all over again.
Then he comes back and can even make it through a few snaps...again just like Behre....
Then Cruz says they were going to try the PRP injections because the medical staff said, "it couldn't hurt"...again, sounded like more of the Berhe situation...confusion about what was going on.
Berhe's situation dragged on for months. Was the clot always there? Probably unlikely.
The Giants NEVER thought this was serious or they would have put him on short-term IR.
Collectively, we have no idea what these athletes go through to try and get back on the field.
They're not going to share a lot of information with the public. It could be that what seems like confusion is just trying to piece together an incomplete picture provided by the Giants with assumptions.
I do think we need to do something more drastic here - but I'm not sure what. At first I thought maybe it was the type of players we were drafting, as we do sometimes go for guys with an injury history and hope they pan out. But even players with no history of injury in college seem to be getting nailed here, and it feels like a higher rate than elsewhere in the NFL (those injury lists would imply that's true, but I don't know how carefully put together they are and what criteria they use).
Concussion? Fuck them, they shouldn't have said anything. MRSA? Wash your hands better.
Two different injuries?
Link - ( New Window )
We're all aggravated as hell with this season, with the non-stop injuries, year after year.
And, kicker, without complaint or doubt, you're spot on as to the difficulty, the tenuousness, of recovery from soft tissue injuries (I had a shitty season reffing because I kept coming back too soon from hamstring and wound up working about only 1/3 my normal games, frustrating beyond measure).
On the other hand, I am tempted, and did, share Eric's skepticism as to the handling of Cruz, be it by the docs or the information that the team was willing to disclose--it might be more the latter than the former?
With multiple MRIs and supposedly top shelf orthopedists, I wouldn't think that they could keep getting this so wrong, given the tenuous nature of recovery from this sort of injury is relatively well understood.
From barren rosters, to recurring injuries, to slammed expectations as to recovery of same, this regime has not been on a good run.
I feel bad for the team. There was real optimism that we were going to be getting major pieces of the puzzle back. That is no longer the case.
Cruz is likely done....he has been irrelevant to this team for 3 years now. Unless he comes back on the cheap...he is not coming back. They cant take the risk.
MRI's and other diagnostic techniques can only tell so much; you can play on partially torn muscles, but if it feels like it's about to give, you should probably lay off.
These guys are the ultimate competitors. They wouldn't be here if they weren't (and, perhaps, fucking with their long-term health). Should the medical staff wholly disregard their opinions as to the severity and look for 100% cure rates?
Or, if the player is telling them that they are good to go, should they do what they are doing (no cutting, straight line running) only?
haha yeaaa ok, please go away
If you think Giants are going to cut Victor Cruz without trying to work out a new deal for next year, think again.
Tom Rock @TomRock_Newsday
Giants have a history of slicing base salaries and adding incentives in contracts for injured players. Beason, JPP. Expect same for Cruz.
No, this won't happen.
People forget that Cruz is going to be 30- and how has 2 major leg injuries in as many years.
Even if you reduce the base salary and add on years, you just turn the cap hit into an extended play issue- look at how Baas' deal hamstrung the team at the end.
The Giants are going to have massive cap space, which should not only mean bringing in FA- but to also "clean up" cap problem areas- that means Beatty, Cruz, Beason and MAYBE Jennings will get cut for TWO reasons.
The first is that the Giants either cannot depend on them due to injuries or that they are generally ineffective and thus undependable, especially at their cap figures.
The second reason is that while the remainder of their cap hit gets accelerated into next year's cap, it also preserves that money for two years out. In other words, suppose the cap hit for the above group is $10M next year. The cap treats it as guaranteed money spent. However, two years out, that space is freed up, much like a contract expiration for a FA would. The Giants could absorb any increases in salary with that money while preserving the rest of their cap space.
Short answer, say goodbye to Cruz- along with Beatty, Beason and possibly Jennings after this season. It is just cap management- and the Giants need to proactively address future issues now that they have cap space.
But when the days turned into weeks and yet he wasn't even running...yet they said he'd still be back...it had the Nat Behre feel all over again.
Then he comes back and can even make it through a few snaps...again just like Behre....
Then Cruz says they were going to try the PRP injections because the medical staff said, "it couldn't hurt"...again, sounded like more of the Berhe situation...confusion about what was going on.
Berhe's situation dragged on for months. Was the clot always there? Probably unlikely.
The Giants NEVER thought this was serious or they would have put him on short-term IR.
personally with how the division is shaping up , I think they forced/rushed their players back.
personally with how the division is shaping up , I think they forced/rushed their players back.
That'd be quite a lawsuit and pretty tough to believe.
Despite what fans think, players almost always want to come back and play, to the point where it's detrimental to their health. It's usually the doctors that have to reign them in and prevent that.
The human interest runs only as far as the player's ability to make that fan feel happy on sunday.
Then it's how much money can we save by cutting him.
MRI's and other diagnostic techniques can only tell so much....
Should the medical staff wholly disregard their opinions as to the severity and look for 100% cure rates?
Or, if the player is telling them that they are good to go, should they do what they are doing (no cutting, straight line running) only?
Good questions, and where we might disagree, or where I might not understand well is the diagnostic and predictive utility of MRIs (I've had my share). I think the MRI is able to identify blood pooling in the muscle and lesions and tears, so that should be essential input to a clinical evaluation.
The other component as you say is the self-reporting by the player. I'm not sure what Cruz was dreaming or smoking, but I know for damn certain when there is lingering soreness--that SPOT--in my hammy or calf that is still not quite right. It's unmistakeable, and as the player eases back into activity, slowly ramping up the force of exertion of the muscle, the signs should be there.
I'm still at a loss to explain or understand the setback here, that is, how it could be so complete and so unexpected, even if Cruz' availability this season (knee) was always a question.
You don't want to tell your opponents "nope, no chance VC can even come back to play in the next few weeks, so don't worry about it", and play the fans and media like the fiddle that they are.
Same thing with contract negotiations.
We'll see how his ego deals with the harsh financial realities he will face this coming offseason. That will determine if he reamins a Giant.
Maybe constantly working out and running and working the lower body made it worse.
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But much of the recovery depends on self-reports by the players themselves, as to the symptoms that they are feeling.
MRI's and other diagnostic techniques can only tell so much....
Should the medical staff wholly disregard their opinions as to the severity and look for 100% cure rates?
Or, if the player is telling them that they are good to go, should they do what they are doing (no cutting, straight line running) only?
Good questions, and where we might disagree, or where I might not understand well is the diagnostic and predictive utility of MRIs (I've had my share). I think the MRI is able to identify blood pooling in the muscle and lesions and tears, so that should be essential input to a clinical evaluation.
The other component as you say is the self-reporting by the player. I'm not sure what Cruz was dreaming or smoking, but I know for damn certain when there is lingering soreness--that SPOT--in my hammy or calf that is still not quite right. It's unmistakeable, and as the player eases back into activity, slowly ramping up the force of exertion of the muscle, the signs should be there.
I'm still at a loss to explain or understand the setback here, that is, how it could be so complete and so unexpected, even if Cruz' availability this season (knee) was always a question.
And you are absolutely right that the diagnostic tests can help determine the nature of the injury.
But unless you are waiting for a full recovery, doctors oftentimes use their patient's inputs to assess if they can start to utilize the muscle in non-rehabilitative ways.
For instance, the calf may still be structurally unsound, but if there are no sizable, lingering, effects, the player may be able to start running on it.
The line between NFL star and has been is quite small when injuries impact either speed or quickness.
The line might be smaller than it's ever been, and college players may be as prepared for the pros as they've ever been. To me it points to bring stingy in giving top tier players players like Cruz top tier second contracts.
There's just so much working against a player having a consistently successful career for longer than two or three years.
and, yes,
players who get huge guaranteed $$$ have little reason to lay it on the line. and a built in excuse not to play
Beatty's injury in the weight room
there is zero reason a professional athlete in a teams facility would end up with an injury like this
so this one is completely on the training staff
Cruz comes back from major knee surgery but somehow injuries other leg
once again this points to improper guidance from training staff in his rehab ..
Meanwhile - JPP completely shut out Giants training staff for his rehab
and he is the only one to get back on the field
4 straight playoff seasons. about to make it 5.
if they can convince guys to come to cincy, it will work here to.
Would that change how everyone perceives next year? Or would everyone still want to cut him?
Standard techniques and proper form are taught all the time. Spotters and assistants are available always. Pre-workout workouts are the norm.
Except, of course, when your body fatigues, form suffers. Or, if you are repping near a max weight, form can suffer.
Seriously, go into any professional or college weight room on the planet, and injuries can and do happen, even with the instruction they receive...
Eric, my first thought was why aren't the Giants putting this out to the media?
Beatty's injury in the weight room
there is zero reason a professional athlete in a teams facility would end up with an injury like this
so this one is completely on the training staff
Cruz comes back from major knee surgery but somehow injuries other leg
once again this points to improper guidance from training staff in his rehab ..
Meanwhile - JPP completely shut out Giants training staff for his rehab
and he is the only one to get back on the field
JPP is the only one who had a financial incentive to make it back. FWIW
I am not optimistic about Beatty this year.
JPP is the only one who had a financial incentive to make it back. FWIW
I disagree with this premise .. Cruz had a doc on Showtime that was entirely geared toward him making triumphant return to the field -
not getting back to play he damaged the Cruz brand which is worth $$$$$
in addition both Cruz and Beatty have big contracts and they will have to both take pay cuts because they did not get on the field this year.
JPP blew off his hand and refused to meet with Giant trainers
a few articles implied he had the way the Giants dealt with his post back surgery rehab .
and it is looking like JPP's decision was the correct one
If Ayers and Moore and JPP can get the rush going and if Prince comes back strong which I do expect, we may have a defense that can make noise in the playoffs.
Now we do need to avoid bad injuries and to actually make the playoffs.
The NFL owes us some calls on the field in cruch time.
Stranger things have happened.
Stranger things have happened.
Can't depend on him to play next year. However, how do you attract a legitimate player at that position unless they see a clear path to playing time? Best case, seems like you have to plan on him being your 4th WR and the pay has to reflect that.
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
Victor Cruz was running this past Saturday, same drills he's been doing, pulled up again when calf gave out on him, again. Thus, surgery.
... The exact nature of Cruz's injury is still unclear. Clearly it's more than a calf strain. Don't know if it always has been. We'll see.
Victor Cruz, by the way, reinjured his calf on Saturday, running the same drills he had been doing all week. Docs then reevaluated him ...
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 54s55 seconds ago
... The exact nature of Cruz's injury is still unclear. Clearly it's more than a calf strain. Don't know if it always has been. We'll see.
Let me correct myself, I think the front office is pressuring Giants trainers & staff to rush players back.
Cruz , Prince and Beatty come to mind. All 3 suffered setbacks
I really hope you rupture your patella tendon someday. And while you're in excruciating pain, and your kneecap is in your thigh, don't forget to give everyone around you the thumbs up, or else some moron on the Internet will think less of you.
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Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
Sort of like the problem of having posters who utilize this site during the work day...
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Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
I love this type of uninformed narrative. I bet you think Cruz has just been taking it easy on his rehab and hanging out at the country club, right?
Cruz is going to have to swallow a bit of ego and take a restructured deal with lots of incentives and low guaranteed money. He's made a lot of money the last three years. Giants have more than paid him for his two years where he was low cost but a high production threat.
Giants need to pour some money into their defense in a bad way and potentially add another threat at TE or WR.
You simply cannot bank on Cruz going forward either on the field or off the field in terms of allocating your cap dollars. This team probably has about a 3 yr window if used correctly going forward starting next year with Eli still in the mix as our QB.
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In comment 12626989 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
I love this type of uninformed narrative. I bet you think Cruz has just been taking it easy on his rehab and hanging out at the country club, right?
Uninformed please.. I been a member of this site since 2005. I never Cruz wasn't rehabbing. I just feel that his rehab wasn't his priority. His off the field endeavors were his priority.
You girls need to un-knot your panties. Some information you just are not privy to. Simply.
And why didn't JPP have a pot to piss in? All he had to do was sign the tender for 14M, but he was greedy, and then stupid......as it stands he is still getting paid the same, for games played.....we just paid him 1.8M for 2 tackles in 2 games.....oh, yeah, that was worth it....
Coughlin on Cruz: "The information was pretty well kept from me until today...very disappointing and I feel very badly for Victor."
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In comment 12627023 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 12626989 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
I love this type of uninformed narrative. I bet you think Cruz has just been taking it easy on his rehab and hanging out at the country club, right?
Uninformed please.. I been a member of this site since 2005. I never Cruz wasn't rehabbing. I just feel that his rehab wasn't his priority. His off the field endeavors were his priority.
You have no clue about his rehabbing..Just a far afield opinion on it..
Shaking my head at the nonsensical view of players taking it ewasy during rehab, especially to promote an endeavor that would bring in far less than a new contract.
And again, I guess Nicks was just a lazy bastard in a contract year, afterall, there are many on BBI who swore that to be true.
Coughlin says the injury that required surgery for Cruz is same that nagged since August.
Coughlin said "We'lll obviously have to have some medical opinions" on whether Victor Cruz has a future with the Giants.
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz
Coughlin on Cruz: "He's young, but he's struggling with a health issue."
If the Giants do not restructure him into a performance contract next year, they are crazy, and haven't learned their lesson......making him a post June 1 cut, we save 8M over the next two years....
The holes are increasing instead of decreasing on this roster, with the possible departure of Beason, Beatty, Cruz, JPP, Schwartz, Prince, etc......remember, the Giants have about 22-29 UFA/ERFA's on this roster.....
I do NOT want to cut bait on Cruz - he is the missing element this offense needs, if healthy - BUT the Giants MUST use this opportunity to restructure his contract.
Sorry for the RANDOM caps.
In a way it might be a blessing for him and the Giants. His knee injury from what I've read normally takes 2 years to fully recover, now he will have that.
I for one will be a happy fan to see him in Giant Blue again. Some of you seem to take these things personally and spew hatred when a player lets you down.... again patheic
I agree with this entire post except for the blessing in disguise post. This does suck, though I see what you mean in terms of Cruz being fully back next year.
But yes, it's amazing to see all the "CUT BAIT" posts after JPP just proved that he's still a valuable piece. This team is playing well for how banged up they are. I have some pretty high hopes for next year, and I think we do have an outside shot of catching lightning in a bottle this year anyway.
You're a fucking idiot. Someone needs to cap you in the fucking knee, you scumbag. You're gonna get on him for crying? Someone needs to go Kerrigan on your fucking knee, dipshit.
You should be banned on principal alone. Fuck you.
And he was EASILY a #1B type WR. Please, tear your fucking patella tendon, you deserve it. Hopefully I can see it happen and be waiting for your thumbs up, dickhead.
A CB starved team might blow Prince away.
Tom Rock Retweeted
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 38m38 minutes ago
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Tom Rock
That means tear is in the calf muscle.
Difficult to stitch muscle, doesn't hold a suture.
Unusual to need surgery.
Cruz should have been put on short term IR to start the season. He was coming back from a major knee injury, and his first calf problem had already appeared in August IIRC. The whole rationale for cutting Jones was because he'd be the fourth WR. But Cruz was never going to start the season, and the coaches knew that Randle has tendonitis in both knees. He's been gimpy the whole season, although part of that is because of a bad hamstring. It was ridiculous to assume that Jones would therefore only be the #4 WR.
As far as the future is concerned, Cruz will be asked to take a major pay cut, with some of it being given back as performance incentives. Somebody else posted a statement from Art Stapelton to that effect.
Yup - both he and Coughlin are already setting the stage for the inevitable
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Not surprising
JoeyBigBlue : 12:52 pm : link : reply
He's more interested in being an Instagram Model, then actually playing.
Those are always fun posts. And Nicks was just slacking during a contract year to leave the team, right?
If you follow him on Instagram, you would know what I mean. He's marketing his sneakers, his Gap ads, or playing nice with a rapper. We as Giants fans have the right to criticize him, especially after being paid by the team a huge contract.
You know it takes merely seconds to post something on Instagram?
It was fun while it lasted with his dances but it's over. Time to move on. Invest in linemen and find WR's who are competent and coachable instead of game-breakers. We have the QB to make them.
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I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
You're a fucking idiot. Someone needs to cap you in the fucking knee, you scumbag. You're gonna get on him for crying? Someone needs to go Kerrigan on your fucking knee, dipshit.
You should be banned on principal alone. Fuck you.
And he was EASILY a #1B type WR. Please, tear your fucking patella tendon, you deserve it. Hopefully I can see it happen and be waiting for your thumbs up, dickhead.
Wow.......extremely intelligent and well thought out post. Is threatening ones health not a bannable offense? Yikes!
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In comment 12626637 GeorgeAdams33 said:
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I hope we injury settle him and cut his sorry ass. Dude was never worth the money. Should've rested Nicks in 2012 and signed him and Bennett instead. Cruz made his name the same way Steve Smith did in Gilbride's system playing the slot. He was never a #1 or even a #2 receiver. And for the record, I never have heard such a crying bitchfest as when he went down against the Eagles last year. That was just embarrassing to all who watched or that were present. Then riding to the locker room on the cart he can't even give a thumbs up because the bitch is too busy crying into his hands. JayZ can take care of him now. Fucking fraud.
You're a fucking idiot. Someone needs to cap you in the fucking knee, you scumbag. You're gonna get on him for crying? Someone needs to go Kerrigan on your fucking knee, dipshit.
You should be banned on principal alone. Fuck you.
And he was EASILY a #1B type WR. Please, tear your fucking patella tendon, you deserve it. Hopefully I can see it happen and be waiting for your thumbs up, dickhead.
Wow.......extremely intelligent and well thought out post. Is threatening ones health not a bannable offense? Yikes!
I've made tons of posts on BBI and pretty much never gone over the top like that, but sorry, that steaming pile of shit post that basically calls an NFL player a pussy for showing emotion after undergoing an excruciatingly debilitating injury that could have potentially ruined his career deserves for the poster to be called out for how he'd react if something remotely similar happened to him.
"Yikes!!" my ass. It was a scumbag post filled with false masculinity and bravado. If someone is going to say it was "embarrassing to all" to watch a player get emotional after his knee is torn to shreds, and write it off as a "crying bitchfest", then fuck it, I want to see how they'd handle after tearing their patella and potentially seeing their life dream and rags to riches story end.
Not to mention it was totally asinine football wise. To even imply that Steve Smith was close to Cruz is fucking laughable. I will never act like an injured football player is somehow personally insulting them.
Tom Rock Retweeted
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 38m38 minutes ago
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Tom Rock
That means tear is in the calf muscle.
Difficult to stitch muscle, doesn't hold a suture.
Unusual to need surgery.
I really wish people stop giving this ass clown doctor the attention he's looking for. As stated before, he's lucky he still has a license (for now).
He doesn't know anymore than what the giants know, yet he talks in definitives like he is performing the surgery. Did you see how much shit he threw against the wall with the jpp injury until something stuck?
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Tom Rock Retweeted
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 38m38 minutes ago
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Tom Rock
That means tear is in the calf muscle.
Difficult to stitch muscle, doesn't hold a suture.
Unusual to need surgery.
I really wish people stop giving this ass clown doctor the attention he's looking for. As stated before, he's lucky he still has a license (for now).
He doesn't know anymore than what the giants know, yet he talks in definitives like he is performing the surgery. Did you see how much shit he threw against the wall with the jpp injury until something stuck?
Are you a doctor and can give a professional opinion on what he is saying? Just saying...
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In comment 12627321 Eric from BBI said:
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Tom Rock Retweeted
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 38m38 minutes ago
David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Tom Rock
That means tear is in the calf muscle.
Difficult to stitch muscle, doesn't hold a suture.
Unusual to need surgery.
I really wish people stop giving this ass clown doctor the attention he's looking for. As stated before, he's lucky he still has a license (for now).
He doesn't know anymore than what the giants know, yet he talks in definitives like he is performing the surgery. Did you see how much shit he threw against the wall with the jpp injury until something stuck?
Are you a doctor and can give a professional opinion on what he is saying? Just saying...
What David said. Guy's malpractice list is longer than his list of accomplishments. Therefore, yes, his medical judgement should be questioned. And until he's actually examining the player in question, then he is just speculating like everyone else. The problem with that is he is using medical background to supply improper information and then take take that wrong info and run with it. It's just irresponsible. Kind of like how he practices medicine.
WTF did Cruz do to deserve this type of shit from "fans"? He had a severe injury and suffered multiple setbacks. If the notion here is that he's milking the injury and only focusing on other opportunities, you are a piece of shit.
What's even funnier is his Instagram account shows him rehabbing from time to time.
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media career Tiki ( i mean Victor).
Once again FU. Lets see how it plays out ?
WTF did Cruz do to deserve this type of shit from "fans"? He had a severe injury and suffered multiple setbacks. If the notion here is that he's milking the injury and only focusing on other opportunities, you are a piece of shit.
Victor Cruz of the Giants missed the final 10 games last year with a torn patellar tendon. He has missed the first 10 games of 2015 with a strained calf muscle. Drawing a line of demarcation, in Cruzs career, on the October night in Philadelphia when he tore up his knee:
Cruz played in 55 of his first 70 regular season games with the Giants and for his 24 touchdowns was paid $6.06 million.
He played on 0 of his next 20 regular season games and despite no TDs (or catches) he was paid $8.8 million.
But: no Cruz and Nicks, no Super Bowl 46.
no Burress and Smith, no Super Bowl 42.
All else is forgiven.
Poor Steve Smith rose and fell so quickly and was even cheated out of his biggest reception as a Giant. The Giants winning touchdown drive in SB 42 has been and will be replayed lots and lots.
But no one ever shows the play before the Burress TD catch, where Steve Smith converted a 3rd and 11 by taking a short toss from Manning and using his smarts and his quickness to get up the sideline to just past the first down marker just before the Patriot DB unloaded on him.