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Why the Giants really blow 4th quarter leads

ANGPASS : 11/17/2015 3:00 pm
This has been the theme for the giants all season long. Dallas Atlanta and NE were all games we could have won. There were those plays that we could have won (Eli not throwing it away vs Dallas, Landon Collins holds on vs NE) however, the real reason the giants are blowing leads is the lack of run game. Not the lack of pass rush, or the beat up defense.

The giants are trying to close the game out vs these teams. The had opportunities on offense with the lead late in the forth to kill clock and close the game out. This O-Line can't seem to establish a consistent running game or push defenders back when they want. The offense tries to run, but we are stuck in 3 and 7's or the offense just tries throwing on all 3 downs (NE). If the giants were able to run the ball, they would at least be in 3rd and manageable or be in victory formation.

The lack of run game is really hurting our team. To me, it is costing us games. If we could run the ball, Atlanta would not have come back, NE would not have come back, and Dallas would have less time to come back.

So might disagree, but if you are up double digits in 3 of the 5 games you lost, it is because you can't run the ball when you want. You can't get those 6 yard runs at the end of games. Every run is 2 yards. And what is sad is 3 or these guys are 1-2 rounds picks and another was a "top" Lineman in FA. If something doesn't get fixed over the bye, who knows how many "should have won" games we will have to come.
How does no run game impact  
TomTom : 11/17/2015 3:04 pm : link
a dropped INT? Dropped TD? A bad facemask call? etc?
I agree  
BlueHurricane : 11/17/2015 3:05 pm : link
We are not done rebuilding this line. We need another premium pick or excellent FA signing on a lineman this year. The left side is set. We need to fix the right.
It's one or two plays  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/17/2015 3:05 pm : link
Some years they go your way and some years they don't. Don't overthink it.
When  
Arcanum : 11/17/2015 3:10 pm : link
You have a young team, these growing pains are expected
I agree also  
Cruzin : 11/17/2015 3:12 pm : link
Lack of a running game is forcing Coughlin to go spread formation to create single coverage in situations we could be looking for a 3 yard gain and keeping the clock running.

Although the lack of running game had nothing to do with Eli forgetting how many TOs Dallas had left ( he didn't realize they got a called TO back on the Cowboys own penalty) or not falling down instead of throwing the ball out of the end zone in the first Dallas game.
Lack of a consistent running game  
Johnny5 : 11/17/2015 3:13 pm : link
Is definitely very concerning. And honestly, I understand RB by committee, but I feel like the Giants don't let any of the current RB stable get comfortable and in a rhythm within a game. I'd love to see us start Darkwa one game, and just pound the rock a few times without changing RBs. Just see what happens.
How the hell do you fix it over the bye?  
Gman11 : 11/17/2015 3:15 pm : link
Do you think there is some magic formula that they haven't used yet? Is there a 1000 yard rusher that will suddenly show up on their doorstep looking for work? Is there a pro bowl offensive lineman on the practice squad? WHAT?
Look at all 4 games  
The Turk : 11/17/2015 3:16 pm : link
Dallas - pure and simple bad clock management. Really can't fault the running game when the runner is told not to score. But the bad holding non-call also effectively sealed the game. Then add in that the Cowboys went 80 yards in 100 seconds.

Atlanta - The lead quickly went from 10 to 3 on Atlanta's first drive of the 4th quarter. Here the offense had several chances to add to the total but did nothing. D allowed a late drive and offense couldn't respond.

New Orleans - Giants scored 49 points but except for 35 seconds at the end never got the ball back after taking the 49 - 42 lead. I can't blame the running game at all in this one.

New England - The O took the ball 91 yards in the final 6 minutes with a nice mix of pass and run. Eli audibled to a sure TD pass but OBJ dropped the ball (maybe). After that at the 2:01 mark a pass made sense since the clock was going to stop regardless. So again how do you fault the running game.

I can see the running game at fault in one game - maybe Atlanta where we had several chances in the end game to grind out a first down to run the clock but failed to do so. Dropped INTs, bad calls, poor clock management and let's face it lousy pass defense and punt return coverage cost more than the running game.
Having a bad  
St. Jimmy : 11/17/2015 3:17 pm : link
pass defense is the main culprit. If the Giants aren't giving the team the ball back with under a minute to go, they aren't going to stop them from moving down the field.
I hate  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/17/2015 3:19 pm : link
to pick on one guy, but if Landon Collins catches that football, we're not having this discussion.
Between our 4 RB's  
David in LA : 11/17/2015 3:21 pm : link
I believe there's only 3 runs that went longer than 20 yards.
yup  
rocco8112 : 11/17/2015 3:21 pm : link
I still can not believe Collins did not make that play.

The defense finally would have made a big stop against a real opponent for the first time in God only knows how long.

Got the pressure and hit on Brady and he chucked it up. That play must be made.

Collins drop and Randle not getting to that deep pass against the Saints are haunting me.
it is a 'passing league' right now....  
Dinger : 11/17/2015 3:22 pm : link
And I don't fault the offense for a bad running game. Actually I like how they seem to be an opportunistic running team, getting decent runs when they can. I think they look for an offensive line secondarily next year. The defense is in sore need and should be addressed primarily. you've got 2 first round and one second round pick on the line at the moment. If they can pick up a decent free agen or spend no higher than a second round pick (see Snee), that should be fine.
Eric...  
BamaBlue : 11/17/2015 3:22 pm : link
if Landon Collins isn't near the ball DRC makes the pick. Collins drop was worse, because the Giants had two chances to pick the pass off... it wasn't getting to the Patriots receiver.
Regarding the OP  
rocco8112 : 11/17/2015 3:23 pm : link
I think the running game still has a ways to go. A good run game can do the following.

--Convert short yardage first downs.

--Run in for TD's when the field gets small in the red zone.

--Run when the opposition knows you will run to grind out those last four minutes when you have a lead.

Big Blue's run game struggles with all of those things.
Eric, I like our chances next time we see them :-)  
David in LA : 11/17/2015 3:24 pm : link
We're just getting the blown leads out of the system!
Think too many  
TMS : 11/17/2015 3:30 pm : link
dropped balls killed us in these games more than anything else. The inability to make a stop with the game on the line was a close second.
RE: I hate  
steve in ky : 11/17/2015 3:32 pm : link
In comment 12630198 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
to pick on one guy, but if Landon Collins catches that football, we're not having this discussion.


And if Odell tucks that ball away we also aren't (having this discussion) and one could really argue that (Odell's play) was the far easier of the two.

For that matter if the special teams just doesn't give up that long return it likely never comes down to either of those two plays being difference makers.
RE: RE: I hate  
rocco8112 : 11/17/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12630228 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 12630198 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


to pick on one guy, but if Landon Collins catches that football, we're not having this discussion.



And if Odell tucks that ball away we also aren't (having this discussion) and one could really argue that (Odell's play) was the far easier of the two.

For that matter if the special teams just doesn't give up that long return it likely never comes down to either of those two plays being difference makers.


Collins play was it. TC said it himself, catch that ball he sends out the victory formation.

Play must be made.
Agree  
jeff57 : 11/17/2015 3:37 pm : link
That's a big part of it. Inability to get yards on the ground and run down the clock. That and a lack of a pass rush
Agree but not blowing the 4th QTR Leads  
NJLCO : 11/17/2015 3:42 pm : link
We do not have any consistent running game. We use the slant pass as our run game....which works in mild weather. When we get into those late December games in NJ and MN it is going to be difficult to pass the ball as much.
the question is  
giantfan2000 : 11/17/2015 3:48 pm : link
now that we are 10 games into the season
and 4 games the Giants lost in the last seconds
it is getting in their heads that the 4th quarter there were be some sort of meltdown

we had multiple chances to put game away on NE and yet these weird plays happen which caused the game to unravel
This idea that Odell..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/17/2015 3:59 pm : link
needs to tuck the ball away seems a bit overblown, especially since it was a bang-bang play. Would moving the ball closer to his body and closer to the defender swiping at it, definitely kept it from being jarred loose?
RE: This idea that Odell..  
steve in ky : 11/17/2015 4:10 pm : link
In comment 12630284 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
needs to tuck the ball away seems a bit overblown, especially since it was a bang-bang play. Would moving the ball closer to his body and closer to the defender swiping at it, definitely kept it from being jarred loose?


Maybe not but my point is to blame the loss on a defender for not holding the ball while hitting the ground trying to make an INT seems a little bit of a reach when if only your stars WR would have held onto the ball in the end zone it wouldn't have likely come down to that.

Games aren't won or lost in a vacuum of it being one play only. Yes that one play could have ensured a victory, but so could have other plays if only they had been successfully made by other players.
I think it has more to do with the lack of a pass rush ....  
Beer Man : 11/17/2015 4:25 pm : link
Teams are coming from behind by passing. With no real pass rush, the QBs can wait for WRs to free up. Hopefully, JPP will help get it into gear.
RE: I hate  
rickrossa : 11/17/2015 4:40 pm : link
In comment 12630198 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
to pick on one guy, but if Landon Collins catches that football, we're not having this discussion.


or if Harris goes down in the field of play when he makes the catch at the 5 yard line. We could then have run the ball 3 times, kick the FG and give the ball back to the pats with about a minute and no TO's. I don't see anybody talking about this...
I agree  
Vanzetti : 11/17/2015 4:42 pm : link
But what do you do? As you said, when the Giants try to run they go nowhere and wind up in third and long.

Also, if you try to sit on the lead and milk the clock with the run game, you wind up giving the ball back. Futilely attempting to run the ball in the 4th played a big role in the losses to both Dallas and Atlanta.
I know Collins is a rookie...  
Goin Deep : 11/17/2015 5:21 pm : link
but I have not been impressed with his ball skills in the secondary. Same rep he had coming out of Alabama. Good vs the run, good tackler. Coach him up and who knows. Bring in a good FS and it will help him...I'm hoping.
Yes, I'd agree  
Daniel in MI : 11/17/2015 5:24 pm : link
that running more consistently would certainly allow us to ice games when we have a chance. One first down, one TD would have finished games. This is why -- as was pointed out yesterday -- it was ironic that the longer play to Harris contributed greatly to losing. Get just a first down there and you can burn enough clock to kick the FG with a few ticks. But, we throw it, put ourselves in first and goal, and now it's just 3 more plays to burn clock.

That said, Sunday's game in particular had so many plays that could have been made to finish that damn thing, it's hard to pinpoint one.

Better pass rush, better coverage from our DBs and LBs, better execution on O, finishing drives, recovering fumbles, not letting up big ST plays. All it takes to lose is have everyone take turns making 1 mistake.
Ive been saying this all along  
EVERY4YEARS : 11/17/2015 6:35 pm : link
You cannot win consistently without a good running game

we have one- Darkwa

the others cannot run through a paper wall
By the way we are averaging 97 rushyds per game  
EVERY4YEARS : 11/17/2015 6:43 pm : link
but we have been using Jennings in the important situations
and he cant move the pile or get more than 2-4 yds at a time

Darkwa is theanswer

Coughlin is spoon feeding us Darkwa in small doses
The parity in the league  
DaveW2 : 11/17/2015 6:54 pm : link
Means that often times games will come right down to the wire. I hate it when I see basketball games decided by who gets the ball last. It seems like the NFL is becoming that as well. That means that you have to be perfect and lucky (and get fair calls) at the end of the game. Unfortunately those things didn't happen in those four close games. Hopefully they get some karma revenge in the next 9 games. I think I counted that right.

Well it's a decent argument at least  
USAF NYG Fan : 11/17/2015 8:05 pm : link
Our run offense is really bad. At least it's a group to look at instead of the 1 play, 1 player, 1 coach, 1 GM, or bad clock blah blah blah. It's never 1 thing folks.

We are the worst passing defense in the league and have been for most of the season! Poor run game is a good argument but it's still second to a terrible defense.

It's 4th and 10, no worries, the Giants defense will just give you the entire center field and wait behind the first down marker. Go ahead and throw a duck deep down the center of the field on 1st down because the Giants safeties can't cover or catch. Don't worry if you're off target today, none of the Giants defenders are anywhere near the receiver anyway.

Want to know how to beat the Giants? Throw to any receiver that DRC is not covering (or Prince for half a season). Wash, rinse, and repeat. It doesn't matter how much time is on the clock.
it's been mental mistakes  
Les in TO : 11/17/2015 8:46 pm : link
and some bad calls and non-calls in the four close losses. the giants also held on in the 4th quarter against tampa, buffalo, Washington and dallas and came from behind against san Francisco.
RE: I hate  
EricJ : 11/17/2015 9:41 pm : link
In comment 12630198 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
to pick on one guy, but if Landon Collins catches that football, we're not having this discussion.


Or if Casillas plays in the right position on the 4th down pass to Amendola, we are not having this discussion.

Or if Eli did not fumble in FG range, we are not having this discussion.

Or if we did not get sacked taking us out of FG range, we are not having this discussion.

Or if our TE was able to catch that pass in the end zone, we are not having this discussion.

Or, if we don't give up an 80 yard punt return that leads to a Pats TD, we are not having this discussion.

Or, if we did not give up an 87 yard TD to Gronk, we are not having this discussion

Finally, if OBJ just secures the ball in the end zone and stops thinking about show boating, then we are not having this discussion.

I am not sure why the LAST mistake is always the one that makes everyone forget about all of the other ones. When you consider the fact that both the punt return and the Gronk TD both were 7 points for the Pats, then we could have been up by 9 points at the end and not just 2.
I dont blame collins  
EVERY4YEARS : 11/17/2015 10:14 pm : link
he was lost in space

unaware another Giant had a better angle

unaware of how to secure the ball or land in that situation

The gist is thankfully we lost no ground and tested our mettle against the best

its a long way to Santa Clara, but our possibilities are good

Our QB is AWESOME
When you lose 4 games late in the 4th quarter  
Rjanyg : 11/17/2015 11:01 pm : link
You are going to be able to point to multiple plays throughout the game that would have made a difference.

The run game being poor is a big part  
ANGPASS : 11/18/2015 10:33 am : link
1) it would make our offense less predicable at the end of the game
2) Our offense plays with a lead in every game but two. If we had a more consistent run game, there would be less time for these last minute come backs. We wouldn't try closing teams out by trying to convert 3 and longs
3) I know there were other key plays that cost us the game, but my point to all this is that because we don't have a solid, not even good, but a solid run game, it would not have to come down to these high pressure clock management situations.

The run game sucks. and the ONLY rb that has upside is darkwa. every game he runs with a burst. it was not just one game. I would make him start and play vereen along with him. Maybe that will light some fire to williams and jennings.
clock management  
area junc : 11/18/2015 11:03 am : link
is the #1 problem,not lack of running game. we can run block - mcadoo just doesn't use the run game.
i thought daniel in MI said it: wtf were we doing throwing the ball to harris at the sideline anyway? what was the ultimate goal there?

our strategy should include the clock at that point, but it just didn't.

tom said "i'll take the TD thank you very much".

how about winning the game instead?

part of "finish" is having a strategy to finish the game. it's tough to stop great QBs in those situations particularly w/the rules. part of finishing games is the coach "bringing it home" with wise tactical moves. maybe that's why we're 1-10 in close games.
There is no one 'real' reason we are losing close games  
Torrag : 11/18/2015 11:08 am : link
There are many contributing factors.
If the Giants can run block, then they can't run.  
Devon : 11/18/2015 11:39 am : link
They're one of the worst teams in the NFL in terms of short yardage efficiency.

But hey, keeping talking out of your ass, Thomas. Maybe you can invent a story where the coaching staff is divided to a point where they're having physical fights over McAdoo like you once did Eli and the players. Or maybe McAdoo can be doing meth in the locker room like Bradshaw did in your world.
yea, i think the run game will come around though  
NYG4246 : 11/19/2015 9:28 am : link
If they can stay atop the division the Giants will be in a good position going in...the run game has to get better, the line is a little beat up and is coming back.Yea they could and should have won several more games this season but that fact is they havent.

Once the run game comes around this team will be unstoppable, theyre right there.
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