Point in the season for retaining the current staff is silly. If we go 4-2 and the Cowboys run the table and win a tie breaker Coughlin should be fired, but if we go 4-2 and the other teams lose a couple then Coughlin should keep his job? They should be evaluated on the season as a whole, and I feel as of right now the coaching staff is getting more out of this team then most coaching staffs would. Going into next year, with plenty of Money to spend, a QB in his prime, and two fairly new coordinators it would be a terrible decision to change regimes IMO.
can be seen as such junk because RV wrote but yet his points are pretty darn accurate. I am not saying his hypothesis is correct but his reasoning for why can't be argued.
The Giants are 5-5 and so many here want to talk about the great job TC and staff have done with the injuries etc. yet, we seem to forget the losses to Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans, New England where we had double digit leads in the fourth quarter. Our injuries didn't stop us from taking those leads. Our injuries didn't have anything to do with questionable uses of timeouts and poor clock management. In a division of crap we are the least stinky at the moment. BUT, had we played smart football (and that is something you would think would be our biggest advantage with such experience at the HC level) and smart game/clock management the Giants could be 2 or even 3 games up on the division.
That is the biggest issue right there. The team isn't being beaten down by other teams due to injuries and lack of talent, we have literally given away at least 2 and arguably 4 games this year. The only game we just didn't play well at all in is the Philly game. So you can't tell me that some of the problems we have this year are not directly tied to the coaching staff.
instead, because we have sucked the last few years we want to hang our hats on competing week in and week out. That is fine for some but you can't dismiss the facts of RV's argument even if you don't agree with the conclusion. It doesn't make someone a hater or bad fan if they feel like this season has been one marred with coaching issues at critical times.
I want the Gmen to make the playoffs and win but I also want this trend of making stupid decisions late in games to stop. I don't know who would be a good candidate to coach this team but I do know that missing the playoffs in a year when the division is so bad because we blew games via strategy and management can't be accepted as a success no matter the other circumstances.
You need to watch some other games, as does Ralph. This is the League now.
Think Coughlin forgot how to coach. Let's take a few questionable clock decisions over a four game span and use that as a reason to fire a guy that has been coaching for probably 50 years and most likely will be inducted into the HOF. Makes sense.
should stay for the rest of Eli's tenure. When it's time to search for the next franchise quarterback, then Coughlin can retire and we can move on from there.
have the accurate read, the realistic read, the read consistent with the Maras' mo over the course of along history.
And while I share the read, the result upsets me, because I think Reese has been less than mediocre over his tenure, with arrogance to boot to deflect from years of poor judgments and assessments.
The first thing he did before anything as a GM was cut Luke Petitgout, and not only did he cut him, he basically crushed him on the way out the door and tossed him in a trash can with his assessment of his talent. I just don't think he's particularly good at dealing with the media. The filter isn't there.
The risk is wasting 1-2 years while Eli goes through a new system. It's been a frustrating year but there's been progress -- we have a good chance of winning the division -- and with a lot of cap space and another good draft, there's a real chance for a significant run next season. I think the only way a coaching change happens is if Mara thinks McAdoo is ready to be HC.
Coughlin's replacements are there: McAdoo & Spags. Since the Giants value continuity, removing Coughlin won't cost the Giants much.
Reese's replacement is harder to figure, and less likely to make a clear impact on the bottom line. Plus they often want to bring in their own coaches, so it would be a more disruptive process. Giants don't like that.
with the arrow pointing up. I also think, even if they don't make the playoffs, that TC and staff will be brought back for probably one more year to see if an infusion of talent on the defensive side, can get them to the playoffs again and the promised land. All bets are off after that however and I also think that there may be a few changes on teh staff again in the offseason too. Changes could also be forthcoming in the front office.
is pure conjecture to drive readers interest for generating internet page hits. And it is total BS.
This staff is the only reason the Giants have had the limited success seen over the last 2-3 years.
The Giants are in transition due to a depleted roster (poor drafting, FA picks and injuries).
BBI has long chronicled the poor draft results form 08-12 and the recent change in draft results from 2013 to now.
Re-growing the teams talent is a work in progress that should see large strides next year.
Tom and the rest of the staff are the reasons for any success. Even the ST Coord (who is a long time BBI target for firing) is seeing improved results with more talented players on ST.
However, that story doesn't sell newsprint or generate internet hits and advertising revenue. Negative and scandals sell, That is what Ralph the jackass is selling.
Don't buy into it.
Exactly. The Giants are a well run organization. Ralph needs to cover the Redskins
resse was arrogant and a little smug in his presser last week.
This guys been arrogant and smug since day one. It's a cover for being in way over his pay grade. Don't want TC gone but if it means Reese will go so be it.
I'm pretty sure Giants ownership does not agree with you and because the Giants are a class organization they will remain ind debt of the Reese/Coughlin/Manning era for providing 2 Superbowl championships.
Aka.. all 3 will be allowed to leave/retire from this organization how and when they choose to do so.
Not sure why you and other fans cant seem to grasp this.
In many respects, despite the injuries and warts, the 2015 Giants are playing with more heart, cohesion, and want-to than we've seen since the first half of 2012.
It's going to take an ugly collapse of some kind to convince Mara to make big changes with Eli at 35 next season. A new head coach means new coordinators, for example.
In many respects, despite the injuries and warts, the 2015 Giants are playing with more heart, cohesion, and want-to than we've seen since the first half of 2012.
It's going to take an ugly collapse of some kind to convince Mara to make big changes with Eli at 35 next season. A new head coach means new coordinators, for example.
Well said. Staff has done a good job coaching through a tone of injuries, plus Eli is in his prime playing the best football of his career (2011 aside). I doubt they will want to risk blowing that up and starting over.
With limited talent, TC has done a very respectable job so far
Things have to go extremely bad the rest of the way for Giants to even consider moving on.
JR is more to blame than TC, IMO, but a big reason for the lack of talent is due to current and past injuries to key players... I dont know how you can blame him for that.
I dont think either of them will be going anywhere anytime soon
In many respects, despite the injuries and warts, the 2015 Giants are playing with more heart, cohesion, and want-to than we've seen since the first half of 2012.
It's going to take an ugly collapse of some kind to convince Mara to make big changes with Eli at 35 next season. A new head coach means new coordinators, for example.
resse was arrogant and a little smug in his presser last week.
This guys been arrogant and smug since day one. It's a cover for being in way over his pay grade. Don't want TC gone but if it means Reese will go so be it.
I'm pretty sure Giants ownership does not agree with you and because the Giants are a class organization they will remain ind debt of the Reese/Coughlin/Manning era for providing 2 Superbowl championships.
Aka.. all 3 will be allowed to leave/retire from this organization how and when they choose to do so.
Not sure why you and other fans cant seem to grasp this.
I think both Reese and Coughlin have ridden those 2 SB wins as far as they should go and now its time for the arrow to be pointing upward and if we weren't coached out of at least 3 wins this season the arrow would be pointing up...
his phony rant after last season did not fool everyone. Injuries will be used as an excuse to keep them....again. Despite the fact that injuries happen every year. Just wondering which assistants get fired this time.
The owners will take their money to the bank next year just like they did this year.
Terps had the 'mic drop' line at the top of this thread.
After so many years, you have to figure it's not really RV's fault. His editors know what he is. Apparently, he's what they want.
Often, under a headline like "Tom Coughlin, Jerry Reese's jobs depend on Giants making playoffs", you find an article that doesn't match the attention-grabbing banner. (That's because reporters usually don't write their own headlines.) In this case, the headline and article do match - at least in the sense that they do an equally poor job of addressing a complex topic. Here's the money line, such as it is:
Quote:
In some ways, these last six games for the Giants are a referendum on whether Reese and Tom Coughlin will get to keep their jobs.
Vacchiano then offers no evidence at all to support this claim, aside from John-Mara's oft-cited win-or-else threat. He doesn't even explain what the qualifier "in some ways" means.
Awful reporting, but hey - we clicked on it. +1 for RV and the Daily News.
you have to admit, if the Giants miss the playoffs because of one game, or a tie breaker, the list will begin....and a lot in that article will come to the forefront....
and really it's simple. This team has to beat the Skins and if they can, they only need to go 2-2 over the next 4--get to 8-7 heading into that week 17 finale against Philly and the division is there's for the taking. It's that simple.
This Giants team doesn't have to beat a single bad ass team here over the next 6 weeks. Not one. I am not saying it will be easy, wins are never easy to come by in the NFL, but the Giants will have the better QB in every single remaining game, and don't have to beat a single fucking powerhouse here to get to 9 wins. The formula is simple: Beat the Skins, find two more wins against Jets, Miami, Panthers and Vikings and then beat Philly in week 17. If they manage this in conventional style and take care of business here they can get fat on mediocrity and win the NFC East. Most seasons 9 wins isn't enough but it's gonna be enough this year. Forget all the tough losses or the injuries. The Giants have EVERYTHING on a platter here. They may not be very good but they don't have to be very good here down the stretch. They just have to be better than average in 4 games.
The Giants really need to take advantage here. If Coughlin and ELi can't close this out it will be a tough pill to swallow for me. Get 9 wins. Beat the average teams here and show you're better than that. With Eli and BEckham and JPP there really is no excuse. They are healthy enough.
but if I am Coughlin and we are sitting at 7-9 8-8 and losing this division I would be nervous. Sure they have hard and Coughlin has gotten just about every ounce of talent out of this roster, but that doesn't mean he didn't leave wins on the field or leave a postseason appearance on the alter.
I don't think Coughlin would be at risk if he got 8-9 wins and Dallas or Philly or even the Skins won the east with 10-11 wins but now that the east is up for grabs I think the stakes are much higher for Coughlin. Things have changed.
that Mara will gamble with refitting Eli with a new coaching staff and a new offensive coordinator at this point in his career. If Giants were tanking this year yes. But Coughlin and Eli will stay together until Eli stops being productive is my guess. Like 5-6 years more.
his phony rant after last season did not fool everyone. Injuries will be used as an excuse to keep them....again. Despite the fact that injuries happen every year. Just wondering which assistants get fired this time.
The owners will take their money to the bank next year just like they did this year.
I hate this kind of argument about phony rants. These owners and players can't fucking win with some of you. If they say nothing, they don't care and the fans get mad. If they say anything, the fan use those words against them at the drop of a hat.
WTF was Mara supposed to say after last season and does it really fucking matter?
I dont think anybody is suggesting we should use his words against him, but Mara had to show he was serious about improving and said something.
OF COURSE, it was a phony rant however, fair to call it what it is. He is stuck with an older star and drastic change closes the window fairly tight.
Fans should take such talk with a grain of salt to your point.
The truth to me however, is as tied to the hip Coughlin and Eli are, and changing schemes is not going to happen after such a turnaround in Eli's numbers, Reese is another story altogether. While I dont think he will go either he is more disposable to me in terms of trying to improve the product on the field.
EricJ may have been implying that, so your point is valid. However, I think many understand the rhetoric the boss has to use to motivate people. Does not mean the tough talk will get acted on.
I agree
anything 8-8 and above they will stay
The Giants are 5-5 and so many here want to talk about the great job TC and staff have done with the injuries etc. yet, we seem to forget the losses to Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans, New England where we had double digit leads in the fourth quarter. Our injuries didn't stop us from taking those leads. Our injuries didn't have anything to do with questionable uses of timeouts and poor clock management. In a division of crap we are the least stinky at the moment. BUT, had we played smart football (and that is something you would think would be our biggest advantage with such experience at the HC level) and smart game/clock management the Giants could be 2 or even 3 games up on the division.
That is the biggest issue right there. The team isn't being beaten down by other teams due to injuries and lack of talent, we have literally given away at least 2 and arguably 4 games this year. The only game we just didn't play well at all in is the Philly game. So you can't tell me that some of the problems we have this year are not directly tied to the coaching staff.
instead, because we have sucked the last few years we want to hang our hats on competing week in and week out. That is fine for some but you can't dismiss the facts of RV's argument even if you don't agree with the conclusion. It doesn't make someone a hater or bad fan if they feel like this season has been one marred with coaching issues at critical times.
I want the Gmen to make the playoffs and win but I also want this trend of making stupid decisions late in games to stop. I don't know who would be a good candidate to coach this team but I do know that missing the playoffs in a year when the division is so bad because we blew games via strategy and management can't be accepted as a success no matter the other circumstances.
Maybe Cromartie on defense. JPP hurt our defense on the 4th of July so how is that Reese's fault?
If the Giants miss the playoffs both Reese and TC are gone. New HC may keep offense and d dense if it is an internal promotion.
And while I share the read, the result upsets me, because I think Reese has been less than mediocre over his tenure, with arrogance to boot to deflect from years of poor judgments and assessments.
Also JPP and Beatty were lost before camp began and that hurt.
The OL would haven better with Peters at RT but it never came to pass.
The first thing he did before anything as a GM was cut Luke Petitgout, and not only did he cut him, he basically crushed him on the way out the door and tossed him in a trash can with his assessment of his talent. I just don't think he's particularly good at dealing with the media. The filter isn't there.
Coughlin's replacements are there: McAdoo & Spags. Since the Giants value continuity, removing Coughlin won't cost the Giants much.
Reese's replacement is harder to figure, and less likely to make a clear impact on the bottom line. Plus they often want to bring in their own coaches, so it would be a more disruptive process. Giants don't like that.
This staff is the only reason the Giants have had the limited success seen over the last 2-3 years.
The Giants are in transition due to a depleted roster (poor drafting, FA picks and injuries).
BBI has long chronicled the poor draft results form 08-12 and the recent change in draft results from 2013 to now.
Re-growing the teams talent is a work in progress that should see large strides next year.
Tom and the rest of the staff are the reasons for any success. Even the ST Coord (who is a long time BBI target for firing) is seeing improved results with more talented players on ST.
However, that story doesn't sell newsprint or generate internet hits and advertising revenue. Negative and scandals sell, That is what Ralph the jackass is selling.
Don't buy into it.
Exactly. The Giants are a well run organization. Ralph needs to cover the Redskins
Quote:
resse was arrogant and a little smug in his presser last week.
This guys been arrogant and smug since day one. It's a cover for being in way over his pay grade. Don't want TC gone but if it means Reese will go so be it.
I'm pretty sure Giants ownership does not agree with you and because the Giants are a class organization they will remain ind debt of the Reese/Coughlin/Manning era for providing 2 Superbowl championships.
Aka.. all 3 will be allowed to leave/retire from this organization how and when they choose to do so.
Not sure why you and other fans cant seem to grasp this.
It's going to take an ugly collapse of some kind to convince Mara to make big changes with Eli at 35 next season. A new head coach means new coordinators, for example.
forget what
There are 6 weeks left and we have a one game lead over 2 teams that we have to still play. And a two game lead over another team that we do not play.
You're kidding right?
Buloney, an outright lie...the truth is we have won more superbowls than anyone but NE over the last decade.
But of course, if you discount that little note...
then Babe Ruth wasn't a great base stealer and doesn't belong in the hall.
Based on football, we're a 7-3 type team at the moment. Vying for the division lead.
as cruel as fortunes have been, we're about where we should be. Get it done.
Conversely if they win 5 of the next 6, how many would want Coughlin gone? Maybe a few nuts but nobody who is rational
If they go 3-3 and miss the playoffs then it gets to be a tougher call. But there is just no way right now to make that call.
Assumes our injured return to health and effectiveness.
Bottom line: Just win baby!
It's going to take an ugly collapse of some kind to convince Mara to make big changes with Eli at 35 next season. A new head coach means new coordinators, for example.
Well said. Staff has done a good job coaching through a tone of injuries, plus Eli is in his prime playing the best football of his career (2011 aside). I doubt they will want to risk blowing that up and starting over.
JR is more to blame than TC, IMO, but a big reason for the lack of talent is due to current and past injuries to key players... I dont know how you can blame him for that.
I dont think either of them will be going anywhere anytime soon
It's going to take an ugly collapse of some kind to convince Mara to make big changes with Eli at 35 next season. A new head coach means new coordinators, for example.
This
Quote:
In comment 12639716 sundayatone said:
Quote:
resse was arrogant and a little smug in his presser last week.
This guys been arrogant and smug since day one. It's a cover for being in way over his pay grade. Don't want TC gone but if it means Reese will go so be it.
I'm pretty sure Giants ownership does not agree with you and because the Giants are a class organization they will remain ind debt of the Reese/Coughlin/Manning era for providing 2 Superbowl championships.
Aka.. all 3 will be allowed to leave/retire from this organization how and when they choose to do so.
Not sure why you and other fans cant seem to grasp this.
I think both Reese and Coughlin have ridden those 2 SB wins as far as they should go and now its time for the arrow to be pointing upward and if we weren't coached out of at least 3 wins this season the arrow would be pointing up...
two super bowl rings --
and in the what have you done for me lately column
OBJ
Reese is a young GM who inherited a HC -- traditionally he should be given at least one go at hiring his own coaching staff.
The owners will take their money to the bank next year just like they did this year.
Often, under a headline like "Tom Coughlin, Jerry Reese's jobs depend on Giants making playoffs", you find an article that doesn't match the attention-grabbing banner. (That's because reporters usually don't write their own headlines.) In this case, the headline and article do match - at least in the sense that they do an equally poor job of addressing a complex topic. Here's the money line, such as it is:
Awful reporting, but hey - we clicked on it. +1 for RV and the Daily News.
In other news, water is wet and Brett has skidmarks.
I think both Reese and Coughlin have ridden those 2 SB wins as far as they should go
LOL
This Giants team doesn't have to beat a single bad ass team here over the next 6 weeks. Not one. I am not saying it will be easy, wins are never easy to come by in the NFL, but the Giants will have the better QB in every single remaining game, and don't have to beat a single fucking powerhouse here to get to 9 wins. The formula is simple: Beat the Skins, find two more wins against Jets, Miami, Panthers and Vikings and then beat Philly in week 17. If they manage this in conventional style and take care of business here they can get fat on mediocrity and win the NFC East. Most seasons 9 wins isn't enough but it's gonna be enough this year. Forget all the tough losses or the injuries. The Giants have EVERYTHING on a platter here. They may not be very good but they don't have to be very good here down the stretch. They just have to be better than average in 4 games.
The Giants really need to take advantage here. If Coughlin and ELi can't close this out it will be a tough pill to swallow for me. Get 9 wins. Beat the average teams here and show you're better than that. With Eli and BEckham and JPP there really is no excuse. They are healthy enough.
I don't think Coughlin would be at risk if he got 8-9 wins and Dallas or Philly or even the Skins won the east with 10-11 wins but now that the east is up for grabs I think the stakes are much higher for Coughlin. Things have changed.
The owners will take their money to the bank next year just like they did this year.
I hate this kind of argument about phony rants. These owners and players can't fucking win with some of you. If they say nothing, they don't care and the fans get mad. If they say anything, the fan use those words against them at the drop of a hat.
WTF was Mara supposed to say after last season and does it really fucking matter?
OF COURSE, it was a phony rant however, fair to call it what it is. He is stuck with an older star and drastic change closes the window fairly tight.
Fans should take such talk with a grain of salt to your point.
The truth to me however, is as tied to the hip Coughlin and Eli are, and changing schemes is not going to happen after such a turnaround in Eli's numbers, Reese is another story altogether. While I dont think he will go either he is more disposable to me in terms of trying to improve the product on the field.
The talent level is low, but the division is also beyond terrible. It's been handed to them buffet style and they may just completely fail at it.