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There's a lot of bad football this year.

jcn56 : 11/23/2015 1:41 pm
Thanks the bye week and my schedule finally relenting a bit, I got to spend the day behind the tube yesterday.

And I was treated to grade A garbage as far as football is concerned. It's reaching the point where it's almost less sloppy to watch a few hours of college football than the pros.

For example:

- Alex Smith and KC dicing up the Chargers. You'd think vintage Joe Montana snuck in for Smith, while Rivers didn't help his cause any with a pick-six. Noticing a trend - the middle of the field wide open with nobody covering.

- Minny/GB - was looking forward to this one. Two teams with winning records. One off a six game winning streak. GB struggling, on the road in frigid Minny. You're thinking AP is going to get a ton of carries and run wild on GB, right? Nope - only 13 for him (him fumbling didn't help his cause), and Bridgewater spent the day running for his life (which resulted in some damaging sacks).

-Jets/Texans - right up there with Dallas/Miami under the 'well, someone has to win, right?' category. The Jets once again proved they can lose to the worst of them.

I could go on - but in each game, it was the usual - poor tackling, bad drops, penalties up to wazoo (Minnesota could have woven a nice yellow Viking flag out of what they had thrown at them). Another recurring theme - bad depth. Guys hurt, and replacements stepping in and looking awful.

The records seem to indicate the same - there's only a handful of teams with good records, and none of them look all that dominant.

What gives? CBA limitations killing the product on the field? The uptick in injuries and limited roster sizes resulting in unprepared players taking the field? Rule changes - seems like you could just skip running altogether, if you throw on every down, you're likely to get PI called in your favor every 3rd or 4th shot anyway.

The middle of the field in every game I was watching yesterday looked wide open - hell, even Blaine Gabbert nearly managed a 300 yard day (remember when that was a big deal)?

This isn't a 'pardon the Giants' thread - they could easily be better than they have been, but injuries and mistakes in both management and execution have prevented that. But it sure as hell looks like a general theme.

What happened to the NFL?
There are a lot of bad football teams  
jeff57 : 11/23/2015 1:44 pm : link
The ridiculous amount of injuries has a lot to do with it.
For starters,  
ryanmkeane : 11/23/2015 1:44 pm : link
defensive backs aren't allowed to play defense anymore. Nobody has any clue what a catch is. And the talent pool DEPTH WISE in the NFL is very very low right now.
Man,  
ryanmkeane : 11/23/2015 1:45 pm : link
that call against Washington yesterday was so brutally bad, we would be still up in arms had it happened to us.
I think the prevalence of option QBs  
jcn56 : 11/23/2015 1:45 pm : link
and the reluctance to let QBs develop in the NFL has made an impact as well. Fewer teams have quality QBs as starters, and God forbid you lose your QB, what you have behind him is usually even worse.
In every game..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/23/2015 1:50 pm : link
I watched this week, there was at least one 3rd down PI or defensive holding call where minimal to no contact happened.

Plus, add the Redskins debacle where they took a pick 6 away from them on a complete bullshit call and you can see the effect that the refs have on drives.

That being said, jcn is right about the quality of play. It is very poor, especially for this late in the year when teams should be peaking.

That rams-Ravens game was horrific and there were some incredibly odd penalty calls there, too.
CBA is very restrictive towards practice  
JonC : 11/23/2015 1:50 pm : link
which restricts actually forging teams that are consistently able to play clean football, avoid injuries, and rules are very restrictive towards offense, which handcuffs passing defenses.

The NFL is now more or less arena league football. Add the above factors to a game that is evolving and trying to find itself in light of concussions, and you've got a weak stew and too many chefs.

And quite frankly, professional athletes making way too much money, regardless of sport. What is their incentive once they've banked millions? Winning? Not enough. Most men start looking outside of football after a few years in the NFL, it seems.

Problematic rules, CBA, and too much money involved. Goodell and most of the modern owners are business man first and only, the football purists are dying off. imv.

The Golden Goose has been killed, as Terps opined years ago.
rules are very restrictive favoring offense  
JonC : 11/23/2015 1:51 pm : link
...
Why do you think a 5-5 team is  
superspynyg : 11/23/2015 1:51 pm : link
in the playoff hunt.. Cause everyone else is crappy as well.

Only NE, Carolina, Arizona are playing solid football week to week.
The product is terrible.  
bceagle05 : 11/23/2015 1:56 pm : link
But the fantasy football fanatics are happy, so who gives a shit? I wonder how much enthusiasm I'll have for the NFL once Eli retires.
Good points by all. I really have a hard time watching  
Victor in CT : 11/23/2015 1:57 pm : link
non Giants games, and even the Giants now are almost out of habit and tradition rather than the games being good.
Seems like every game  
bubba0825 : 11/23/2015 1:58 pm : link
I've watched this year that was close included an easy game winning drive for a fg. Teams can't run out the clock or get a defensive stop at the end of games. Ex. Last nights game
As tough as they were to take as a Giants fan..  
bigGMENblue0891 : 11/23/2015 1:58 pm : link
You gotta say our games against New Orleans and the Patriots are up there for the best of the season so far.

And on the flip side, the San Francisco game was great for a nice prime time W!
It's ugly  
ghost718 : 11/23/2015 2:05 pm : link
In non Giants games,I lose interest after the 1st quarter,sometimes sooner.
I defy you to find one person who  
I'mRonBurgandy? : 11/23/2015 2:10 pm : link
doesn't instinctively wait to react to a play until they see if there's a flag or not. Penalties seem more the norm than the exception. Watching football like this sucks a lot of the joy out of it.
The officiating is awful. The rules are awful. There's no flow to the game.

This is definitely not the same game we've all grown up with.
I still love it but it sure isn't the same.
The league is infected with the dumb  
mgreenie03 : 11/23/2015 2:10 pm : link
dumb players
dumb coaches
and some really dumb rules

The quality of this game has been going downhill for years. This year has been one of the worst I can remember.
RE: Seems like every game  
bluepepper : 11/23/2015 2:12 pm : link
Quote:
I've watched this year that was close included an easy game winning drive for a fg. Teams can't run out the clock or get a defensive stop at the end of games. Ex. Last nights game

These end of game drives are so predictable. There's little suspense anymore. If a team has a halfway decent QB and more than a minute (or less than that if they have timeouts), you can be pretty sure that they are going to get in FG range and the FG kicker is going to make it. Need to bring back defense into the game and make FG's harder.

There was a 3rd down play..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/23/2015 2:13 pm : link
in a 1PM game where the receiver and defender are running stride for stride at the 2 yard line and the defender breaks up the play. Ref standing right there doesn't throw the flag. ref in end zone sees the ball is incomplete, takes a couple steps forward and then pulls the flag out and throws it.

Replays show there was minimal contact and the defender is looking back to make a play on the ball.

Result - 1st and goal from the 2.

Went from a 40+ yard FG try to a TD.
Not sure if anyone was watching  
ryanmkeane : 11/23/2015 2:18 pm : link
but the Dolphins had the ball on the 50 with 6 minutes left, DOWN 10 points. It was about 4th and less than 10, maybe 7 or 8. AND THEY PUNTED. 6 minutes left in the game, at the 50 yard line, and you punt down 10? It was a mind numbingly awful coaching decision.
it was  
dorgan : 11/23/2015 2:22 pm : link
4th and 6 and the ball was on the Dallas 47.

Rookie coach who has done some good things but is way in over his head.
if you dont like NFL football find a hobby  
EVERY4YEARS : 11/23/2015 2:23 pm : link
try watching bowling
ive said this before....  
dep026 : 11/23/2015 2:26 pm : link
out of the 5 major sports, the NFL is by far the lowest quality.
I still can't get over that call to punt there.  
ryanmkeane : 11/23/2015 3:02 pm : link
Even if you stop them three and out, you're gonna get the ball EXACTLY where you have it now, probably even further back. Man, that's just bad.
Without a doubt,  
Doomster : 11/23/2015 3:04 pm : link
the quality of football has dropped.....Parity or less talented players?

We live in an age where a player, may make one single play in the game, and it doesn't matter if his team is up by 20, or down by 20, and he starts struttin' his stuff.....the game is not the same, unfortunately......how many times did we see LT make a great play and just walk back to the defensive huddle?
Doomster..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/23/2015 3:09 pm : link
funny you mention that. One of the eagles made a good play just before the Bucs wen t up like 35-14 or something like that. He stated jumping up and down and celebrating.

I was thinking, who the fuck on that Eagles team could celebrate anything right now, especially on defense.
The product is awful  
rsjem1979 : 11/23/2015 3:12 pm : link
Yesterday was merely the latest example.
The stats tend to bear jcn out  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/23/2015 3:27 pm : link
consider this:
There are currently only 10 teams in the NFL with winning records and if the Patriots beat Buffalo tonight there will be only be 9.

As inconsistent as the Giants have been they are 7th in Number of TDs (29) scored this season.

The TD scoring leaguewide looks as follows:
Cardinals (40),
Panthers and Patriots (34),
Saints (33),
Bengals (32),
Falcons (30),
-------------
Giants (29)
-------------
Packers, Raiders and Bills (28),
Jets, Colts, and Chiefs (27),
Eagles and Dolphins (26),
Steelers, Texans and Bucs (25),
Seahawks and Redskins (24),
Ravens, Jaguars, Broncos and Chargers (23),
Titans, Vikings, Bears and Lions (21),
Browns (20),
Cowboys (19),
Rams (19),
9ers (13)

The Cowboys at 3-7 are tied with the Ravens, the Lions and the 9ers for the 4th worst record in the NFL and are being shown love as contenders for the crown .

The only teams with a worse record than the Cowboys are in the AFC - and they would be the Browns the Titans and the Chargers all at 2-8

3 teams lead their divisions with 5-5 records the Colts who are tied with the Texans, and the Giants

Interestingly while the Giants are 7th from top in TDs scored - they are 7th from the bottom in points allowed this season
I agree with what has been said here  
Go Terps : 11/23/2015 3:53 pm : link
Obviously the CBA has done a number on the level of play we see from athletes that by all logic should be capable of playing the best football that's ever been played.

I think a major culprit is the management of the teams in an era where keeping a cohesive team together is very difficult. GMs may need to rethink how they spend their cap space.

The current cap is $143.28 million. The current roster size is 53 players. That's $2.7 million per player. Right now the popular model is to have a handful of starters make way past that figure with backups making less in order to balance the books.

With the impact of injuries and roster turnover, it might be time to concede that the money should be distributed more evenly at the expense of the top players.

It can't be overstated: teams need to think long and hard about giving any player a lucrative second contract.

Our top six average salaries (according to Spotrac) are:

Eli
JPP
Cruz
Beatty
DRC
Beason

By average salary those six guys account for $58.5 million, or 40.8% of our total cap. And of those six four have contributed almost nothing this year. You could probably do a similar exercise for other teams around the league and get similarly poor results.

Another factor may be that GMs and coaches have very short lifespans, and are thus not motivated to conduct business with an eye toward any sort of long term cost/benefit analysis.


I think not many people  
Chris684 : 11/23/2015 4:22 pm : link
want to talk about a very destructive force within the league which is the rise of fantasy football.

It is a serious problem.
I look at it a bit differently..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/23/2015 4:26 pm : link
I don't know if the skills of the players are what makes the quality seem bad. I really think it is the league intervention that makes it that way.

Look - you can have a perfectly contested game turn on a dime because on 3rd and 18 a flag is thrown for defensive holding where the defender away from the ball touches the shoulder of the WR.

You have rules so open for interpretation that a receiver coming across the field who gets knocked hard has a better than likely chance to draw a flag. You have 40-50 yard chunks freely given to a team that doesn't earn it, but is the beneficiary of a ref who sees slight contact and decides to award a drive-changing and possibly game-changing penalty.

these penalties have ripple effects:
1) They keep drives alive that result in points that wouldn't have otherwise
2) They cause defenders to pull up on hits or try to avoid any contact, which lessens the viewpoint of a "good" defensive game
3) It allows the offense such freedoms that end of game scenarios of a team needing a drive are often allowed to happen, regardless of the talent level of the defense

To make matters worse, the teams who are adapting on defense aren't adapting with skill, they are adapting by employing a strategy that calls for repeatedly fouling the other team hoping that flag fatigue sets in.

I don't believe that the gameplay suffers because of a lack of talent - but by conscious and deliberate rule changes that favor the offense and cause defenders to have to resort to means that make the game tough to watch.
RE: it was  
MetsAreBack : 11/23/2015 4:30 pm : link
In comment 12640638 dorgan said:
Quote:
4th and 6 and the ball was on the Dallas 47.

Rookie coach who has done some good things but is way in over his head.



Thats bad ... but wasnt even the worst coaching blunder of the day. How about John Fox electing to go for it on 4th and goal from the 5 down 8 with over half a quarter to go.... at home... facing Denver's backup QB in his first NFL start. I mean WTF?!?
I don't like the defensive penalties  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/23/2015 4:35 pm : link
But I don't buy the argument that the level of play is crap compared to previous years. It's different with more focus on offense and we see more border line defensive holding on 3rd and long.

It's the stylish thing (like "I hate TNF") to say but I don't buy it. We're seeing athletes who are stronger and faster than ever and solid young QBs.
I think it's all been covered here  
Gman11 : 11/23/2015 4:38 pm : link
Bad tackling probably because they don't tackle in practices, defensive backs that can't play defense, the horrendous rules and the amount of penalties that either extend drives or kill drives.

I used to watch 5 games a week - Thursday, 3 games on Sunday, the Monday night game. Now, I'll watch the Giants then go walk the dogs or go somewhere with the wife.
Terps  
JonC : 11/23/2015 4:41 pm : link
Good stuff. I riffed on the top-heavy cap structures a week or two ago as well, it's clearly a big reason for roster imbalance in terms of talent and spending.
RE: Terps  
Victor in CT : 11/23/2015 4:48 pm : link
In comment 12640949 JonC said:
Quote:
Good stuff. I riffed on the top-heavy cap structures a week or two ago as well, it's clearly a big reason for roster imbalance in terms of talent and spending.


George Yong foresaw this when FA began. Said the existing system allowed for more $$ for more players, that FA would result in top heavy salary structures
Honestly  
RB^2 : 11/23/2015 4:56 pm : link
I bet if you flipped through a bunch of mid-season games 30 years ago, it wouldn't me much different. Crappy play is not a novel development in the NFL.

Also, this "arena league" stuff doesn't appear to be making its way into the data. Scoring is up insignificantly from 30 years ago and if you adjust for better kicking conditions and accuracy, it's marginal at most.
RE: Honestly  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/23/2015 5:04 pm : link
In comment 12640983 RB^2 said:
Quote:
I bet if you flipped through a bunch of mid-season games 30 years ago, it wouldn't me much different. Crappy play is not a novel development in the NFL.

Also, this "arena league" stuff doesn't appear to be making its way into the data. Scoring is up insignificantly from 30 years ago and if you adjust for better kicking conditions and accuracy, it's marginal at most.


I agree except I would say it's crappy, it's football
I wouldn't say it's crappy  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/23/2015 5:05 pm : link
.
RB  
JonC : 11/23/2015 5:07 pm : link
Fair enough, but to the eye the quality and character of the NFL brand of football is diminished and resembles the arena league. It doesn't resemble the NFL pre-2006 when Bill Polian's pleas to the NFL were put into action. I don't believe it's simply a matter of me getting older and viewing action through a different lens.
Again  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/23/2015 5:11 pm : link
It's stylish to say that but there is nothing that points to it being reality
Watch the Cardinals  
Joey in VA : 11/23/2015 5:12 pm : link
Last two weeks I watched them start to finish on Monday and Sunday nights, that is a football team. There is some really awful football being played and it's the CBA, make no mistake about that. You practice how you play and if you barely practice, you'll barely play a game worth watching.
Jon  
RB^2 : 11/23/2015 5:14 pm : link
I would guess that fewer games played in bad weather and the current non-grass NFL playing surface where you don't see as much dirt, mud, etc., help create a more arena league aesthetic.

But I still see a lot of physical play. That's what's causing all the injuries people are complaining about.
I'd start with the league-wide poor fundamentals seen regularly  
JonC : 11/23/2015 5:14 pm : link
the tons of penalties, the mental and physical errors, etc. I see basic 101 stuff we were drilled on without end when I played in school screwed up in the NFL. I suspect an average grade sheet now is more peppered with demerits per player.

They've got to reach a CBA that allows more practice time as a team, more contact during training camp, etc.
The golden goose  
area junc : 11/23/2015 5:16 pm : link
is fatter than ever. The game evolves. Fans from the 60's didnt like the NFL of the 80's. Officiatings been terrible forever. Lots of the complaints have a get off my lawn feel

Theres nothing wrong with paying good players. Its about structure. Too much guaranteed up front $$$. Not every team is struggling to field quality. The CIN Bengals are being lauded for low guaranteed contract structures with incentives. Pay for play. 4 straight playoff years. About to be 5. There GM - under mike brown - will b a hot commodity
JonC  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/23/2015 5:19 pm : link
I agree on more practices but I doubt that changes anytime soon
Gman11  
RobCrossRiver56 : 11/23/2015 5:20 pm : link
is spot on. I used to watch as many games as possible. Lately if the Giants are not on, I would rather make Pork Fried Rice.
The NFL may be suffering from the same thing  
RB^2 : 11/23/2015 5:20 pm : link
that many organizations are suffering from today - too much data, most of which is just noise until you can organize it properly. I can accept that players can appear sloppy when they just have so much more to remember and process with the same play clock. This should be pretty easy to check by looking at data on penalties over time.
Andy  
JonC : 11/23/2015 5:21 pm : link
I don't pay attention to style, and confident I've demonstrated a knowledge of the game over the years. I've posted this stuff many times since the league began changing rules and capitulating on CBA points such as practice time.

RB, no disrespect intended but I think the poor football is plainly visible. As Joey pointed out, teams like the Cards play a strong fundamental brand of football, which reflects their daily habits and accepting drilling from the coaches. They clearly are doing something many other teams are not.

TC changed how the team prepared in training camp, and they came out swinging in the season opener, whereas the past few years of the new CBA they were dreadful in their fundamentals the first 2-3 games of each season.

The funny thing is  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/23/2015 5:22 pm : link
Officiating has improved . How many remember pre-replay days?
They've gotta get rid of the illegal contact penalty  
NYerInMA : 11/23/2015 5:22 pm : link
Keep PI and holding for blatant penalties, but the idea that defenders can't make any contact with a receiver beyond five yards is beyond absurd. Defenders have a right to their space and the ball just as much as the offensive players do, and I wish the league would balance this out a bit.
Jon  
RB^2 : 11/23/2015 5:28 pm : link
No worries, dude, I don't view that as disrespectful at all. I know you're much closer to the game from your personal experience so I give you the benefit of the doubt on things like the fundamentals/basics and game prep.

I still maintain that scoring doesn't seem to be affected significantly by this or by tighter rules for the defense, etc.
the goose might be fatter  
JonC : 11/23/2015 5:29 pm : link
but fat is much less appealing than lean and fit.

80s NFL was better than the 70s, but I can't say that about the '10s versus the prior decades I've witnessed. The athletes are superior, the skill and technique are probably superior, but we don't see enough of that reflected in team performance on a consistent basis.
RB, more importantly  
JonC : 11/23/2015 5:31 pm : link
How is life treating you, dude?
RE: Gman11  
Gman11 : 11/23/2015 5:35 pm : link
In comment 12641039 RobCrossRiver56 said:
Quote:
is spot on. I used to watch as many games as possible. Lately if the Giants are not on, I would rather make Pork Fried Rice.


Pork Fried Rice with garlic chicken wings.....oh yeah.
...  
Route 9 : 11/24/2015 1:01 am : link
Agreed. By the 4 PM games, I was tapped out. I couldn’t really get too much into the Green Bay/Minnesota game. It was an all right watch in the beginning, low scoring but the second half proved to be a predictable outcome. Green Bay went into Minnesota and did what good teams do, despite losing three games in a row. The Eagle game, while funny was absolute trash to watch and so was the Miami game. The Redzone barely showed enough of the Jets and Texans game but c’mon it’s Ryan Fitzpatrick and TJ Yates as the two starting QBs. Of course you’re going to see slop.

As others mention, its the fantasy football world today and if you dig yourself a hole, or you blow a 10 point lead like the Cardinals did, you could easily march down the field because you have the ball last. It’s not just the Giants that this happened against. I think with Andrew Luck, Ben, Flacco, Brees, Romo and other starters missing games(include Peyton in there since he had a bad start) you are going to be seeing more shitty match-ups. Next week is Matt Schaub vs Johnny Manziel on Monday Night Football. Garbage. I’m not gonna watch that. One of the many many reasons the Giants have killed the Redskins of late is they got…Kirk Cousins starting games for them. Can’t wait to see what he has in store for us come Sunday.

I haven’t watched a Sunday Night Football game in a while. I do watch clips of the Monday Night games live because thats the only true night during the week where I have no work or classes. Even though the matches are bad, I’ll watch some football. Forget the Thursday Night games. I completely forgot the Jaguars were playing the Titans last Thurs. Fuck that. I used to like the Thurs Night games after Thanksgiving, but its an overload and it’s sloppy, boring and the dull divisional match-ups I don't care about make it pointless to watch.
CBA rules to protect players  
SGMen : 11/24/2015 2:16 am : link
Good for players but not for the public.

That simple me thinks!

But serious we need more quality quarterbacks in NFL.
outside of the giants  
bbfanva : 11/24/2015 4:20 am : link
I can hardly bring myself to watch anymore. The level of play is worse than college. I have only watched the pats, broncs and maybe the Panthers and usually only in passing. The officials have become as involved as they are in basketball, which has been unwatchable for more than a decade.
They need to expand the rosters and the salary cap which will allow teams to have actual back-ups on the bench instead of wash outs.
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