In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
the best part of this is that I don't have the first clue what his name is, just that he's the "clock kid."
the worst part is that he'll get paid somehow. the SB will settle out of court.
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
I have no idea what this kids name is or what he looks like.
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
I do. Decades long campaign by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce mostly. It plays up the handful of absurd cases or relies on poor characterizations of the facts to convince the legislators and the public that we need all kind of protections from boogeyman lawyers. Like damages caps to somehow prevent frivolous (ie worthless) cases.
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting.
but wasn't the kid something of a pain in the ass, and didn't that inform the school district's decisionmaking to an extent that the media didn't really acknowledge at first?
He didn't "build" anything. He put a couple of pre made parts together. It was a kit. He didn't make it from scratch. Then he put it in a briefcase. At least that's what I read after people really started to look into this.
He didn't "build" anything. He put a couple of pre made parts together. It was a kit. He didn't make it from scratch. Then he put it in a briefcase. At least that's what I read after people really started to look into this.
Less a kit and more like a decontructed and re-built mid 1990s Radio Shack clock radio.
and brings it to school pretending he built a clock. He actually did not build a clock. He took a clock apart and hoped he would be detained and/or suspended so he could sue the state.
He didn't "build" anything. He put a couple of pre made parts together. It was a kit. He didn't make it from scratch. Then he put it in a briefcase. At least that's what I read after people really started to look into this.
and a teacher he showed it to previously had warned him not to show it to other teachers or anyone else, yet he still did and then when questioned about it became evasive and uncooperative.
I think stunt is appropriate given the family history and the details that were reported.
He didn't "build" anything. He put a couple of pre made parts together. It was a kit. He didn't make it from scratch. Then he put it in a briefcase. At least that's what I read after people really started to look into this.
so you believe he purposely tried to do all of this, get arrested, and humiliated, so he could what exactly? move away? all that "Fame" he got is diminishing by the day,so if you think he was really trying to get that i believe you are mistaken.
maybe you are being sarcstic? i am really hoping so.
days before visiting Obama at White House "clock boy" visited the Sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir who is wanted for War crimes for genocide of tens of thousands of Darfur citizens. Remember that was a big issue a few years back. Then he goes to the White House to be celebrated for his "invention". Then he moves to Qatar. WTf
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
Notice how everyone is outraged over the law suit but ignore this
His family is getting exactly what it wants. The ability to sue for millions. Fame, my ass. Nice gif though.
i highly doubt they really were hoping for this, is it a a thing now? no they certainly have that ability now, but i am not buying the fact this was a stunt and that they planned for all of this to happen, that sounds idiotic.
... the boy told The News that he spent just 20 minutes soldering a digital display to a circuit board and power supply, which he put inside a pencil case. His description matched a photo of the clock that police later released.
and ...
A statement sent out Tuesday from Irving City Hall acknowledged that a police “investigation determined the student apparently did not intend to cause alarm bringing the device to school.”
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
Notice how everyone is outraged over the law suit but ignore this
that's terrible, but only tangentially related to the OP at best. I won't claim there was no racial bias with how Mohamad was treated I have no idea, but this story and the other are mutually exclusive. start another thread and we can all say how awful the other one is.
I mean, given the state of other "normal" frivolous lawsuits, and looking on the insane clusterf*ck that the whole episode was, this all sounds about right. What the twon did was totally beyond the pale, and I would expect them to be hit with a lawsuit. So screw them.
Now, given that the kid's family picked up and is living the dream in Qatar now, screw them also.
Finally, Omar al-Bashir isn't just a bad guy. In fact, he's literally the #1 most wanted man in the International Criminal Court. Even ahead of all the Israeli lawmakers that I imagine make up #'s 2-100, so you know he's up to no good.
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
I have no idea what this kids name is or what he looks like.
didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
to take a clock that looks like a clock and turn it into a clock that looks like a bomb.
I agree with this. And also if he moved out of country, that he should go fuck himself along with his lawsuit.
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
Depends on the intent, doesn't it, counselor?
Is your intent is to invent/build a clock from scratch, or is your intent to repackage something that already exists to look like something else?
to take a clock that looks like a clock and turn it into a clock that looks like a bomb.
I agree with this. And also if he moved out of country, that he should go fuck himself along with his lawsuit.
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
WTF? Obviously ISIS is behind the law suit, right?
didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
Depends on the intent, doesn't it, counselor?
Is your intent is to invent/build a clock from scratch, or is your intent to repackage something that already exists to look like something else?
Why is that relevent to a false arrest law suit? It would be ok to arrest him for a bomb hoax if it was a gutted commercial clock but not if he built it himself?
Seems specious. What is relevant is what the cops thought when they arrested him (from what I know I think the school personnel acted very reasonably). Did the cops know how he made the clock? That was deduced on the internet days later, though he may have told them that on the spot. But if the cops were in the dark it seems an irrelevant fact to the claim.
It's like if A and B get into a simple fender bender at a stop sign. An argument ensues and A beats B with a tire iron. Does it matter whether A or B was at fault in the traffic accident? Maybe on the periphery, but on the whole no. Similarly, whether he faked the clock could peripherally be something in the mix of information the cops had when assessing whether this was a hoax bomb. But whether it was a hoax homemade clock doesnt seem independently relevant.
to take a clock that looks like a clock and turn it into a clock that looks like a bomb.
I agree with this. And also if he moved out of country, that he should go fuck himself along with his lawsuit.
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
WTF? Obviously ISIS is behind the law suit, right?
if he intentionally wanted the repackaged device to give off a suspicious appearance, then the "false arrest" for a bomb hoax wouldn't necessarily be a "false" arrest, would it?
if he intentionally wanted the repackaged device to give off a suspicious appearance, then the "false arrest" for a bomb hoax wouldn't necessarily be a "false" arrest, would it?
If he wanted it to have a suspicious appearance it could be relevant. Kind of. More important is what the police had reason to believe.
My point is very different however, which is that the mere fact that he likely faked building a homemade alarm clock is irrelevant to whether he made a hoax bomb. Original vs. de-packaged clock is a different issue from making it look like a bomb.
I believe the words he used were that he invented the clock...
invented - "create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of"
Now let's look at the word hoax.
hoax - "to trick into believing or accepting as genuine something false and often preposterous"
You're a lawyer, Deej, correct? Pretend your job is arguing the city's case. You can't build your case around these very simple definitions?
Kids get arrested for things everyday like calling in a fake bomb threat or pulling a fire alarm in school. Is this really much different, if there is even any chance that the devices appearance was intentional?
There were a lot of holes poked in this kid's story... Â
I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
RE: Britt, the police hardly took the threat seriously Â
I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
The kid (probably) made a hoax clock. Not a crime. Making a hoax bomb is a crime. The rule cant be that any hoax is a hoax bomb. The police would have to suspect at time of arrest that he intended to make a hoax BOMB.
RE: RE: Britt, the police hardly took the threat seriously Â
I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
Yet, there was never any bomb squad called in. The school took it seriously, but the authorities didn't deem the clock a threat at all, why is that?
Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Plugged in with the time showing? I bet it looked exactly like a clock.
Does it look like a bomb? What sort of bomb needs to plug into the wall? Where is the explosive? If he wanted to make a hoax bomb, wouldnt it have fake dynamite sticks, silly putty plastic explosives or SOMETHING that was supposed to blow up?
I dont want to be this kid's defender because I honestly dont care. But the notion of fake clock = he got whatever was coming is kind of dumb to me. Maybe not damages dumb, but still dumb.
I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
How often does this happen?
Funny you should ask... We had our first bomb threat of the year called in last month, and just last week some dumbass kid pulled the fire alarm in the cafeteria. They caught the kid that pulled the fire alarm and he was charged. Standard procedure.
The point is, bomb threat called in, a fire alarm pulled, or a fake plastic gun brought in painted to look like a real gun (also happens with more regularity than you think)..... Just because the cops know it's not a real threat doesn't mean they don't still charge you.
That, IMO, is a lot closer to what happened here than an entire town trying to persecute a family.
Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
He wasnt arrested for making a fake clock. He was arrested for making a fake bomb. So whether it looks like a bomb seems like a much more relevant question.
I dont know what a home made clock would look like. Do you?
Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
Yes, I'm the dumb fuck, yet I'm not the one positing whether something's a bomb because there's a circuit board there. Deej mentioned it earlier, but the device plugs into a fucking wall.
Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
Yes, I'm the dumb fuck, yet I'm not the one positing whether something's a bomb because there's a circuit board there. Deej mentioned it earlier, but the device plugs into a fucking wall.
It plugs into a wall? Then why did the alarm go off?
why don't you kindly fuck off? We have not crossed that bridge yet, but I do enjoy that it pisses you off so much when I bring up that people might have biases.
Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
No, to most reasonable people it did not look like a clock and I believe it was his English teacher who reported it to the principal and I'm going to guess many English teachers aren't qualified to make a call about what a bomb looks like or what a homemade clock looks like. And I don't want my kids English teacher taking it upon herself to make that determination about what constitutes a threat because she doesn't know how to identify a homemade clock. I think erring on the site of caution was correct.
reporting it to the principal was fine, especially after the science teacher he brought it in to show said don't show it to anyone, because the device will "alarm school staff".
after the principal got involved is when things got out of control, but Mohamed also contributed to that by allegedly not being forthcoming with the police. His family has also reportedly not waived their rights to privacy to allow the school to explain themselves, so all we are hearing is one "official" side to the events (the families) so it's wrong to reach any conclusions IMO (beyond the reasonable yes he should probably not have been cuffed, arrested, and denied access to his parents, a phone and a lawyer) but I have no idea what contributed to the police acting in that manner, and I don't think anyone else does (so people chalk it up to racism).
to take a clock that looks like a clock and turn it into a clock that looks like a bomb.
I agree with this. And also if he moved out of country, that he should go fuck himself along with his lawsuit.
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
WTF? Obviously ISIS is behind the law suit, right?
I originally said to myself "he can't be THIS stupid. But then I realized who it was posting, and therefore you are.
what we really dont know is what other info the police had. If he just refused to answer questions + the clock, I think it was a pretty egregious arrest. But if he was talking, said something to the teacher and/or police, then you really would need to know what he said.
if he intentionally wanted the repackaged device to give off a suspicious appearance, then the "false arrest" for a bomb hoax wouldn't necessarily be a "false" arrest, would it?
If he wanted it to have a suspicious appearance it could be relevant. Kind of. More important is what the police had reason to believe.
My point is very different however, which is that the mere fact that he likely faked building a homemade alarm clock is irrelevant to whether he made a hoax bomb. Original vs. de-packaged clock is a different issue from making it look like a bomb.
Are you seriously fucking doubting his intent? He's smiling with warlords, suing the town for 15 million AFTER he and his disgusting family refused to cooperate with law enforcement during the conducting of their investigation. They rolled the dice, it worked and now they want more.
Fuck them and fuck anybody who refuses to believe these are bad people.
BTW, David in LA, what now? That idiot is bound to come call me an Islamaphobe any minute anyway. Fucking wanker.
with someone who thinks that anything inside a metallic briefcase with a digital display is a bomb. The cops clearly didn't think it was a credible threat, or they would have called in a bomb squad.
with someone who thinks that anything inside a metallic briefcase with a digital display is a bomb. The cops clearly didn't think it was a credible threat, or they would have called in a bomb squad.
This illustrates that you should just try and not overextend your normal everyday way of life labeling people and casting aspersions by tempting fate with discerning common sense.
No shit the cops didnt call the bomb squad. The teachers couldnt tell and called the cops. Cops knew why the teachers called the cops and questioned the kid, who was apparently COMPLETELY uncooperative. Then, when the cops attempt to access the parents, THEY in turn stonewall the cops. Months later, after precious little Ahmed receives national attention including a visit to the White House, scholarships to several private schools and even a goofy appearance on the Larry Wilmore show...after all that, he decides to sue the town for 15 million? And you really think this WASN'T staged?
Fuck ANYBODY who thinks this little twerp deserves what he got already.
don't answer that. Go back to fleecing people for their jewelry in your pawn shop.
1) I don't have a pawn shop. 2) I buy and sell stones to other jewelers, I rarely interface with retail customers, but keep taking cheap shots at how I make a living.
Kid's get pulled out of class, their parents called, suspended, whatever for anything remotely resembling a weapon. I read about some kid getting into trouble for bringing a g.i. joe to school, another kid drawing a picture of a gun, another kid chewing his food into what appeared to be a gun.
COps get called, Kids get handcuffed in school all the time for suspicion of drugs, weapons, threats, fights, being high etc.
His parents cried racism and he became a national symbol/hero of a persecuted victim of islamaphobia and went on a world tour. CLock? The little prick knew exactly what he was doing, and the little game he was playing with school officials by putting his so called great clock invention into that briefcase. Now they are suing for 15 mil. They're scumbags.
got all these attention and scholarships to prestigious schools, and instead he chose to go to Qatar!!
Normal kids like us had to actually accomplish something to pay to go to good schools.
I'm sure those that supported him are heartbroken that they won't see his genius blossom in this country.
Skin color works both ways, I definitely don't think what happened to him was right, but I honestly can't say that racism and Islamophobia are all that I see here.
RE: RE: RE: You want to know why people hate lawyers? Â
They hid behind this guise that STEM and academic learning was being usurped from this poor kid who was simply trying to get an education. They gave no benefit of the doubt to the school or police; it was a clear case of bigotry towards a Muslim.
And as the months go on, it looks more and more like the kid, or his family, played everyone, exploited society and preyed on the emotions of those on social media.
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
So I guess we need to focus on the former?
RE: Every moron jumped on the bandwagon so incredibly early Â
They hid behind this guise that STEM and academic learning was being usurped from this poor kid who was simply trying to get an education. They gave no benefit of the doubt to the school or police; it was a clear case of bigotry towards a Muslim.
And as the months go on, it looks more and more like the kid, or his family, played everyone, exploited society and preyed on the emotions of those on social media.
Pfffft. Whatever. Do you even know what a homemade briefcase clock looks like?
They hid behind this guise that STEM and academic learning was being usurped from this poor kid who was simply trying to get an education. They gave no benefit of the doubt to the school or police; it was a clear case of bigotry towards a Muslim.
And as the months go on, it looks more and more like the kid, or his family, played everyone, exploited society and preyed on the emotions of those on social media.
Pfffft. Whatever. Do you even know what a homemade briefcase clock looks like?
I think he's agreeing that the family and little douchebag are at fault.
Fuck him and his family. I hope they get recruited by knifepoint by ISIS
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
If you actually READ through the whole thread it has the majority obliterating this putz while the original defenders of this pencil neck have been more like :
(I regret that I had to use to such a cool movie scene to illustrate what the dum dums have been suggesting to this point).
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
Who makes a fucking briefcase clock? Come on. Make your little reconstructed clock. Fine. Great job. Really interesting. Why stick it in a briefcase? Ran out of shoeboxes? Or you're just trying to be cute?
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
Who makes a fucking briefcase clock? Come on. Make your little reconstructed clock. Fine. Great job. Really interesting. Why stick it in a briefcase? Ran out of shoeboxes? Or you're just trying to be cute?
I think it's an abstract art piece... like a treatise on the modernity of technology obsoleting social norms.
I mean, who the fuck uses a clock anymore? Or a briefcase? Or TTL logic?
with someone who thinks that anything inside a metallic briefcase with a digital display is a bomb. The cops clearly didn't think it was a credible threat, or they would have called in a bomb squad.
maybe one of the cops was on the bomb squad or had training. Most police departments don't have a separate bomb squad and most have part time swat teams. So your average patrol officer could be on one or both. If not, they could have texted a picture to a bomb squad member which is the first thing they are told to do.
Maybe the cops didn't think it was a credible threat, but you assume a lot and often.
My implication is the cops knew it wasn't a threat Â
Lookalike weapons, lookalike drugs, bomb threats, pulled fire alarms.... Just another day in the office. Kids arrested for stupid shit like this all the time to little or no fanfare.
My opinion is that this kid, probably with some help from his dad, took advantage of the current climate of America in which racism lurks around every corner, real or perceived (Ferguson), and played the American media/public (including the President) for fools.
They'll be laughing all the way to the bank. In Qatar.
met this kid then we see him hanging out with criminals like Bashir tells me all I need to know about this family. And frankly, pretty embarrassing for Obama, no?
• There was no "school project" or science assignment to justify Mohamed bringing the device to school .
• Just three weeks into his freshman year, Mohamed was no "science whiz well-known by high school teachers for tinkering."
• The "clock" wasn't made from scratch but just the guts of a mass-manufactured digital clock, complete with AC cord and 9-volt backup battery connection.
• With its exposed wires and lack of a face, the gutted clock looked like a bomb. It also sounded like a bomb: The alarm was set to go off during English class; the beeping startled the teacher who called police.
• When police questioned Mohamed, he wasn't cooperative and was described as "disrespectful."
• The police chief said the device was "intended to create a level of alarm; in other words, a hoax bomb."
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
• Mohamed tweeted: "Thank you fellow supporters. We can ban together to stop this racial inequality."
• The family's spokesperson is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a terror-tied group that in 2006 sued US Airways for kicking several Muslim activists off a flight for behaving suspiciously and rattling passengers — a stunt that looks eerily similar.
1-3 are probably fact. Most of the rest is either conclusion or pretty irrelevant to whether he should have been arrested. For example, did the police know AM was going to tweet something? Did police make a CAIR connection (and what does terror-tied mean?)? Of course not. Did this thing look like a bomb? I think no -- frankly not at all. It "sounded" like a bomb? On the conclusion side, you have the police chief speaking to AM's intent -- he may well be right but unless AM said something relevant, it's really just the chief's evaluation of the same facts we all have.
Some of this stuff is relevant. If the family was aiming to make a mountain out of a relative molehill, that should undercut a claim of damages. E.g. if the father asked that the kid be handcuffed for a photo (I hadnt heard that before but I dont follow this closely), then are the embarrassment damages self-inflicted? Probably.
1-3 are probably fact. Most of the rest is either conclusion or pretty irrelevant to whether he should have been arrested. For example, did the police know AM was going to tweet something? Did police make a CAIR connection (and what does terror-tied mean?)? Of course not. Did this thing look like a bomb? I think no -- frankly not at all. It "sounded" like a bomb? On the conclusion side, you have the police chief speaking to AM's intent -- he may well be right but unless AM said something relevant, it's really just the chief's evaluation of the same facts we all have.
Some of this stuff is relevant. If the family was aiming to make a mountain out of a relative molehill, that should undercut a claim of damages. E.g. if the father asked that the kid be handcuffed for a photo (I hadnt heard that before but I dont follow this closely), then are the embarrassment damages self-inflicted? Probably.
1-3 are probably fact. Most of the rest is either conclusion or pretty irrelevant to whether he should have been arrested. For example, did the police know AM was going to tweet something? Did police make a CAIR connection (and what does terror-tied mean?)? Of course not. Did this thing look like a bomb? I think no -- frankly not at all. It "sounded" like a bomb? On the conclusion side, you have the police chief speaking to AM's intent -- he may well be right but unless AM said something relevant, it's really just the chief's evaluation of the same facts we all have.
Some of this stuff is relevant. If the family was aiming to make a mountain out of a relative molehill, that should undercut a claim of damages. E.g. if the father asked that the kid be handcuffed for a photo (I hadnt heard that before but I dont follow this closely), then are the embarrassment damages self-inflicted? Probably.
And how convenient is it, that the public will never know the school's or police side of the story due to rocksolid privacy laws for minors. The school system begged Muhamed's family to let them release their side of the story, but they refused to sign off on it. So when this gets thrown out in court, it will be because they have access to that side of the story. But the public never will. All the public knows is what Muhamed's family wants them to know, through their attorneys.
why should I care? Everything going on in the world and this gets this much attention?
No, no. Feel free to stick to your riveting contributions on Joe Beningo, Computer Help, and James Jones. Much more in need of attention in this world.
I lived there for a year in the early 80s. I was about 2 miles from Texas Stadium. Irving is a dry city. So it's not only a shit hole, you couldn't even buy a beer.
unless you have an incredibly small view of the presidency.
Obama as usual jumped into this situation without the facts like he did with the professor "police acted stupidly", Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown etc and he should have been embarrassed especially after this kid is embracing a dictator wanted for genocide in Darfur a day or so before being celebrated at the White House. Obama has a bad history of backing the criminals over the police.
I think his comments were right in some of those circumstances. They're wrong if you just remember a caricature of Obama took the side of criminals against the police and ignore the substance of what he said in full. His attempt to communicate very nuanced points during those incidents did not end up doing much good, mostly because as a country we dont much enjoy nuanced points.
I think his comments were right in some of those circumstances. They're wrong if you just remember a caricature of Obama took the side of criminals against the police and ignore the substance of what he said in full. His attempt to communicate very nuanced points during those incidents did not end up doing much good, mostly because as a country we dont much enjoy nuanced points.
Not about Obama but more to your view on people not paying attention to nuanced points, I have to deal with that on a daily basis as I try to train young analysts to see beyond what they read and what information they see. It's rather disheartening that even after so much training and coaching, more than half the people cannot go beyond the immediate facts to look deeper into issues/topics that they are examining.
Obama likes to stick his nose in issues that fit his political agenda. Â
We know that. If you share his political views then you don't see anything wrong with it. If you don't, then you are going to criticize him for it.
There are a couple of Muslim Americans on the recently released Rhodes Scholar list, why doesn't he invite them to the WH? Instead he invited someone who re-assembled a clock in a briefcase, this doesn't really advance social progressivism or racial equality.
he was trying to make by blowing this kid up without seeming to gather all the facts and let it play out a bit first. Sounds like a bullshit excuse to me. I'm an Obama supporter but this didn't reflect well on him, and still doesn't.
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I think if the President just waited for facts before rushing to judgment or commentary and "picking sides" (always the same side it seems in these racially charged incidents) he'd be better off.
After the facts are known he wants to invite Ahmed to the White House, at least he's doing so with a firm understanding of the situation, not a rush to judgment which makes him seem divisive to his detractors (and probably what endears him to a lot of his supporters).
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
You weren't around for the Rodney King verdict and aftermath, then?
it seems to me, he went out of his way to ignore the nuanced points of that incident.
Really? Taking the cop's version of the story as true, a black man comes home from a trip, has trouble getting into his house and his neighbor calls the police. Policeman show up and the man is agitated already. Police come to believe 100% that he is not breaking in because he lives there, so he goes to leave. Still agitated man is barking at the cop. Cop arrests him for disorderly conduct after a warning. [Gates's version was much worse for the cop]
Totally unnecessary arrest. "Stupid" IMO. People get to vent without being arrested for disorderly conduct, especially on the porch of their own home after their neighbor called the cop on them as a black man purportedly trying to break into a home.
Yes, Obama divided the country by fomenting racism Â
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
it seems to me, he went out of his way to ignore the nuanced points of that incident.
Really? Taking the cop's version of the story as true, a black man comes home from a trip, has trouble getting into his house and his neighbor calls the police. Policeman show up and the man is agitated already. Police come to believe 100% that he is not breaking in because he lives there, so he goes to leave. Still agitated man is barking at the cop. Cop arrests him for disorderly conduct after a warning. [Gates's version was much worse for the cop]
Totally unnecessary arrest. "Stupid" IMO. People get to vent without being arrested for disorderly conduct, especially on the porch of their own home after their neighbor called the cop on them as a black man purportedly trying to break into a home.
Unlike you, even Obama had to back off on his "stupid" comment once the nuances of the case came out.
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
Who says Travon Martin wasnt killed due to race?
The Department of Justice and evidence from the case.
Unlike you, even Obama had to back off on his "stupid" comment once the nuances of the case came out.
Did he? This article suggests no, but maybe he did subsequently.
In any event, Im entitled to a different opinion than Obama. I think the cops shouldnt arrest someone under those circumstances. They should just apologize for the hassle (good faith as it was), and walk away. And that's if you buy the cop's story. If you buy Gates's version, it was beyond merely stupid. Link - ( New Window )
The Department of Justice and evidence from the case.
The DOJ said no such thing. DOJ said:
Quote:
“Although the department has determined that this matter cannot be prosecuted federally, it is important to remember that this incident resulted in the tragic loss of a teenager’s life,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General Vanita Gupta of the Civil Rights Division. “Our decision not to pursue federal charges does not condone the shooting that resulted in the death of Trayvon Martin and is based solely on the high legal standard applicable to these cases.”
After a thorough and independent investigation into the facts surrounding the shooting, federal investigators determined that there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt a violation of these statutes. Accordingly, the investigation into this incident has been closed. This decision is limited strictly to the department’s inability to meet the high legal standard required to prosecute the case under the federal civil rights statutes; it does not reflect an assessment of any other aspect of the shooting.
The evidence goes both ways. He wasnt convicted, but that just means that there was reasonable doubt. Link - ( New Window )
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
But Travon Martin was killed due to racism and actions of a dickbag racist fuck.
RE: RE: RE: RE: In that incident with Professor Gates Â
Unlike you, even Obama had to back off on his "stupid" comment once the nuances of the case came out.
Did he? This article suggests no, but maybe he did subsequently.
In any event, Im entitled to a different opinion than Obama. I think the cops shouldnt arrest someone under those circumstances. They should just apologize for the hassle (good faith as it was), and walk away. And that's if you buy the cop's story. If you buy Gates's version, it was beyond merely stupid. Link - ( New Window )
we are talking about nuances. He admitted he drew a conclusion before drawing a conclusion (not knowing the nuances)and the later said he regretted the comments.
"On July 22, President Barack Obama said about the incident, "I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home, and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately." Law enforcement organizations and members objected to Obama's comments and criticized his handling of the issue. In the aftermath, Obama stated that he regretted his comments and hoped that the situation could become a "teachable moment"."
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
But Travon Martin was killed due to racism and actions of a dickbag racist fuck.
Ronnie, the way some people act on this board, prejudice and bias does not exist at all in America.
And some people see it around every corner, through every door... Â
He said he didnt know if racism was a factor, but separate and apart from the HLG incident that there is a history of people of color being stopped disproportionately. So he drew no conclusion and stated something that I would just hope is not too contested -- that people of color get stopped a lot more than whites. Nuance.
In the same statement he said the cop acted stupidly. My take on the facts is that the cop arrested a guy for mouthing off after the cop came to investigate whether the 60 year old black man was breaking into what turned out to be his own house. That's a fucking stupid arrest if you ask me. I did not sleep safer knowing that Henry Gates was off the streets that night. I dont think you need much nuance on that point.
Even with what we know today I agree with what Obama said. I would be pissed if the cops were preventing me from entering my own home.
If the cops saw someone breaking into your house and did nothing, you would have been even more pissed after you were robbed. When he proved his identity as the homeowner, they let him go in. It would have ended there if he did not go off on them. What happened after that is a matter of debate whether the conduct met the definition of disorderly conduct.
The cop came on a tip from a neighbor. Do you think it was right for Â
Even with what we know today I agree with what Obama said. I would be pissed if the cops were preventing me from entering my own home.
If the cops saw someone breaking into your house and did nothing, you would have been even more pissed after you were robbed. When he proved his identity as the homeowner, they let him go in. It would have ended there if he did not go off on them. What happened after that is a matter of debate whether the conduct met the definition of disorderly conduct.
I mostly agree. It's pretty doubtful that yelling at someone from your porch could ever meet the standard of D.C. though. And even if it arguably could, the cop should have just walked away. If we need to be arresting people for yelling at someone from their porch, it need not be 60 year old men who were just hassled as a potential B&E suspect at their own home.
Arrest under Massachusetts "idle and disorderly person" statute was unlawful under Massachusetts law, where defendant was arrested for yelling, screaming, swearing and generally causing a disturbance but, though the yelling was undoubtedly loud enough to attract the attention of other guests in hotel, it did not rise to level of "riotous commotion" or "public nuisance." U.S. v. Pasqualino, D.Mass.1991, 768 F.Supp. 13.
...
Defendant who did not physically resist his arrest arising out of a domestic violence incident could not be convicted of disorderly conduct based solely on his loud and angry tirade, which included profanities, directed at police officers as he was being escorted to police cruiser, even if spectators gathered to watch defendant; defendant did not make any threats or engage in violence, and his speech did not constitute fighting words. Com. v. Mallahan (2008) 72 Mass.App.Ct. 1103, 889 N.E.2d 77, 2008 WL 2404550.
...
Defendant's conduct, namely, flailing his arms and shouting at police, victim of recent assault, or both, after being told to leave area by police, did not amount to "violent or tumultuous behavior" within scope of disorderly conduct statute, absent any claim that defendant's protestations constituted threat of violence, or any evidence that defendant's flailing arms were anything but physical manifestation of his agitation or that noise and commotion caused by defendant's behavior was extreme. Com. v. Lopiano (2004) 805 N.E.2d 522, 60 Mass.App.Ct. 723.
Middle citation in particular is devastating to a DC charge in my opinion.
I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
But Travon Martin was killed due to racism and actions of a dickbag racist fuck.
Ronnie, the way some people act on this board, prejudice and bias does not exist at all in America.
I have seen you make that assertion many times, but I don't recall anyone ever saying that on this board. Disagreeing with you on specific incidents does not mean you believe these things don't exist. It is a false conclusion that you constantly insert into many debates.
I can understand him being upset and perhaps saying some things he shouldn't have said. The bottom line is I don't believe he should have been arrested. I can also understand why people believe Obama should have waited to comment.
I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
that to err on the side of caution to make sure the school was safe seems ok in my book. If that means detaining someone, then releasing them with no charges, so be it. I don't care what ethnicity the individual is. If my kids were in that school I would expect the authorities to complete their due diligence.
I still don't understand how that can be absolutely construed as outright racist behavior by individuals who are trusted with protecting us.
I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
Did he do those things? Even the police said it was obvious it wasnt a bomb. So unless he said something suggestive, I'd argue pretty strongly that he put a clock in a pencil case and did not have a lookalike weapon. He certainly wasnt charged.
whether or not it was actually a bomb right there on-site. Did they call in a possible bomb? They didn't bring in bomb experts/dogs?
So then it was more than likely known it wasn't a bomb--but was it an asshole kid with an agenda? Seems like it give his current location. So then he should be treated as a possible bomb hoaxer.
He should go fuck himself. And yes, while I support the President overall, he has been landing on the sides of some issues I can't support.
I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
Did he do those things? Even the police said it was obvious it wasnt a bomb. So unless he said something suggestive, I'd argue pretty strongly that he put a clock in a pencil case and did not have a lookalike weapon. He certainly wasnt charged.
It is enough to be considered a lookalike weapon.
A kid can paint a water gun black, and when police get it in their hands, they immediately know it's not real. Does not change the outcome. It's prohibited on school property.
To ignore this fact over and over, that police should just know it was fake and therefore just let it go, shows a complete lack of understand for how zero tolerance, schools, and even police operate.
I don't understand why that point just can not seem to get through to some of you.
that to err on the side of caution to make sure the school was safe seems ok in my book. If that means detaining someone, then releasing them with no charges, so be it. I don't care what ethnicity the individual is. If my kids were in that school I would expect the authorities to complete their due diligence.
I still don't understand how that can be absolutely construed as outright racist behavior by individuals who are trusted with protecting us.
Respectfully, that's a non sequitor. They quickly determined at the school that it was not a bomb. I've seen no suggestion that the kid said it was a bomb. There was no evacuation or bomb squad called in. I dont think anyone has much criticism for the school or initial police investigation. But how precisely was anyone more safe by the police, THEREAFTER, cuffing, printing, and mug shotting the kid at a another location?
And Im leaving race aside. I have no idea whether race played a material role.
A zero tolerance policy imposes automatic punishment for infractions of a stated rule, with the intention of eliminating undesirable conduct. Zero-tolerance policies forbid persons in positions of authority from exercising discretion or changing punishments to fit the circumstances subjectively; they are required to impose a pre-determined punishment regardless of individual culpability, extenuating circumstances, or history. This pre-determined punishment need not be severe, but it is always meted out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Was he arrested or detained? Â
A kid can paint a water gun black, and when police get it in their hands, they immediately know it's not real. Does not change the outcome. It's prohibited on school property.
To ignore this fact over and over, that police should just know it was fake and therefore just let it go, shows a complete lack of understand for how zero tolerance, schools, and even police operate.
I don't understand why that point just can not seem to get through to some of you.
Your point isnt lost on me. But at what point does a lookalike stop being a lookalike? What if a kid painted a supersoaker red? Still a lookalike? That's my point. I think only an idiot would think that thing was a bomb. And if he was really trying to make it look like a bomb, he'd put something there that looked like a fake explosive. The fact that someone else may have overreacted to a clock in a box does not mean that the clock was necessarily a lookalike bomb.
whether or not it was actually a bomb right there on-site. Did they call in a possible bomb? They didn't bring in bomb experts/dogs?
So then it was more than likely known it wasn't a bomb--but was it an asshole kid with an agenda? Seems like it give his current location. So then he should be treated as a possible bomb hoaxer.
He should go fuck himself. And yes, while I support the President overall, he has been landing on the sides of some issues I can't support.
You're all over the map. The cops knew it wasn't a bomb when they looked at the case. They didn't know he was an asshole at the time and that shouldn't be relevant. I can see punishing the kid but the handcuffs, etc were over the top.
has not been able to communicate what happened from the time police arrived and led to Ahmed's arrest due to privacy issues.
The most I have found is in early reports that Ahmed became uncooperative and evasive in his responses to the policemen. they felt he was not being forthcoming with what it was, why he brought it, and his intentions.
Until we see the file unsealed (which the family is stonewalling) you can't really say what led to the arrest or detainment - whatever you want to call it.
My assumption (my opinion) is Ahmed by being non-compliant/forthcoming with the details pushed the police to the steps they took, but I tend to believe the majority of people don't act in a case like this without provocation. I could be wrong
I believe the teacher 100% did the right thing, the principal also 100% did the right thing, not sure about the police, but even if they didn't do the 100% right thing, it doesn't seem too egregious (until we see the facts).
I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
Did he do those things? Even the police said it was obvious it wasnt a bomb. So unless he said something suggestive, I'd argue pretty strongly that he put a clock in a pencil case and did not have a lookalike weapon. He certainly wasnt charged.
It is enough to be considered a lookalike weapon.
A kid can paint a water gun black, and when police get it in their hands, they immediately know it's not real. Does not change the outcome. It's prohibited on school property.
To ignore this fact over and over, that police should just know it was fake and therefore just let it go, shows a complete lack of understand for how zero tolerance, schools, and even police operate.
I don't understand why that point just can not seem to get through to some of you.
The police determined it wasn't a credible threat. I understand zero tolerance for weapons or fake weapons, but IMO it's impossible to 100% prove that Ahmad's intent was solely to embarrass the school. One other question, why do some people keep exaggerating the size of the device? It's very clearly a pencil case, and you can scale the size based off of looking at the plug for the outlet. I keep seeing the container described as a luggage bag or briefcase.
whether or not it was actually a bomb right there on-site. Did they call in a possible bomb? They didn't bring in bomb experts/dogs?
So then it was more than likely known it wasn't a bomb--but was it an asshole kid with an agenda? Seems like it give his current location. So then he should be treated as a possible bomb hoaxer.
He should go fuck himself. And yes, while I support the President overall, he has been landing on the sides of some issues I can't support.
You're all over the map. The cops knew it wasn't a bomb when they looked at the case. They didn't know he was an asshole at the time and that shouldn't be relevant. I can see punishing the kid but the handcuffs, etc were over the top.
If it was a bomb hoax, they could have tazed him for all I care. Fuck that corksmoker and him and his dad's "points".
Shouldn't the exact timeline answer those questions? A timeline that shows exactly what happened and when...
Regardless, if my 14 year old son wanted to make a clock for school I would strongly advise against putting it in a briefcase. I mean, come on.
Im not sure what your point is. I gave you the timeline. At the time he was led out of school in handcuffs, the police absolutely did not believe it was a bomb. From wikipedia (because I dont want to find another source, sorry):
Quote:
The English teacher confiscated the clock and reported him to the school principal's office, and the police were called. The principal and a police officer then took him out of class and led him to a room where four other officers were waiting.[7] Police indicated that he was interrogated only in order to clarify his intentions when he brought the clock to school.[12] According to Mohamed, he was not allowed to contact his family during the questioning and he was threatened by the principal with being expelled unless he would sign a written statement.[7] After interrogating him for about an hour and a half, he was taken out of the school in handcuffs and into police custody. Following his arrival at a juvenile detention center, Mohamed was fingerprinted, forced to take a mug shot, and further questioned before being released to his parents.[12][13][14][15]
Police determined that he had no malicious intent, and he was not charged with any crime.[12][16] Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that "the officers pretty quickly determined that they weren't investigating an explosive device", and that Mohammed was arrested over the prospect that it was a "hoax bomb".[17]
RE: There's no question it was poor judgement by the kid Â
On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
I wonder what his parents were thinking. "Oh, that's cool. I'm sure your teachers will be impressed".
Eh, I dont agree. If you believe his side of things, it was a naive HS freshman who probably didnt think about whether this would/could be mistaken for a bomb. I dont know if we want our kids being that cynical. Then again if you believe the douchebag family version, yeah it's terrible judgment.
RE: And for the crowd that thinks he knowingly built a hoax bomb Â
On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Using that same logic, I guess you don't think OJ committed the murders?
Lack of evidence does not mean he didn't intend to deceive people into thinking it was a bomb.
On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Using that same logic, I guess you don't think OJ committed the murders?
Lack of evidence does not mean he didn't intend to deceive people into thinking it was a bomb.
So by your logic everyone is guilty? Think about what you're saying.
RE: RE: And for the crowd that thinks he knowingly built a hoax bomb Â
On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Using that same logic, I guess you don't think OJ committed the murders?
Lack of evidence does not mean he didn't intend to deceive people into thinking it was a bomb.
You are confusing no evidence, preponderance of the evidence, and a jury finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. OJ's acquittal does not mean that there was NO EVIDENCE that he murdered those two people.
The police chief quoted above said that "We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned". "No evidence" is a very strong phrase. Now they're not saying it was no evidence of him making a hoax bomb, but it's pretty close to it, isnt it? And isnt a hoax bomb a crime of intent more than anything? One for which he wasnt charged...
I wonder what his parents were thinking. "Oh, that's cool. I'm sure your teachers will be impressed".
Eh, I dont agree. If you believe his side of things, it was a naive HS freshman who probably didnt think about whether this would/could be mistaken for a bomb. I dont know if we want our kids being that cynical. Then again if you believe the douchebag family version, yeah it's terrible judgment.
I agree with this, we don't want to deter children from being expressive or provocative (in a constructive way), but his science teacher told him, not to show it to anyone else because it could "alarm the staff". He showed it to several other teachers after that warning until his English teacher saw it and....was alarmed. He should not have been surprised with the alarm especially since the teacher he brought it in to show warned him and he should have been able to explain this to police.
the family history and fathers comments and all their actions post-incident stuff are secondary and speculative but they definitely make you question the naivety of the incident overall. It just seems suspicious.
RE: RE: RE: There's no question it was poor judgement by the kid Â
I wonder what his parents were thinking. "Oh, that's cool. I'm sure your teachers will be impressed".
Eh, I dont agree. If you believe his side of things, it was a naive HS freshman who probably didnt think about whether this would/could be mistaken for a bomb. I dont know if we want our kids being that cynical. Then again if you believe the douchebag family version, yeah it's terrible judgment.
I agree with this, we don't want to deter children from being expressive or provocative (in a constructive way), but his science teacher told him, not to show it to anyone else because it could "alarm the staff". He showed it to several other teachers after that warning until his English teacher saw it and....was alarmed. He should not have been surprised with the alarm especially since the teacher he brought it in to show warned him and he should have been able to explain this to police.
the family history and fathers comments and all their actions post-incident stuff are secondary and speculative but they definitely make you question the naivety of the incident overall. It just seems suspicious.
Or he was uncooperative because he asked to speak to his parents (as he was possibly told to do or saw from TV) and his request was denied. I believe wrongfully (not sure).
There is a lot we dont know. Obviously his family could waive privacy, and if they pursue this litigation I assume they will have to do it. I dont know why anyone would have their heels dug in at this point on a definitive account/rationales.
Sure Deej, it's from the Mark Cuban story because the family won't allow release of information - not sure of the veracity, since it is Breitbart, but Cuban does acknowledge the two talked, I have no reason to believe this isn't true.
Quote:
According to the Florida entrepreneur Mark Cuban, the boy showed his strange device to as many as six teachers until one finally called the cops. At least one teacher warned him the device would alarm school staff.
According to the Florida entrepreneur Mark Cuban, the boy showed his strange device to as many as six teachers until one finally called the cops. At least one teacher warned him the device would alarm school staff.
(Florida?). Here is what Cuban actually said:
Quote:
Cuban added that Mohamed is a “great kid,” and “this is once removed, right? So I talked to the people in Irving, Texas, that work with people at MacArthur, the school. And I said, ‘What happened? What did you hear?’ This is, again, secondhand. He said, the kid, Ahmed, took the clock, put it in the first class. Teacher said, ‘Great. Looks great. It looks great.’ Kid picks it up, takes it to the second class. Teacher said, ‘Okay, whatever. It’s great. It’s great.’ Ahmed didn’t really comment, from what I heard. Takes it to the third class, same thing. Then he got to a point, again, secondhand, where one of the teachers, an English teacher, apparently, said, ‘Look, you’ve got to put it in your backpack, because it’s going to make some people nervous, and it’s making me nervous.’ And again, secondhand, he didn’t — he wasn’t responsive to it at all. And so, it took six classes before anything happened.”
Cuban is making the opposite point really. First teacher saw it, no problem. Second, third, fourth, fifth -- same. The sixth teacher was the "English teacher". That's the teacher who took away the clock/bomb and called the principal's office. It wasnt an earlier teacher. According to Cuban. DMN reports the story differently:
Quote:
He showed it to his engineering teacher first thing Monday morning and didn’t get quite the reaction he’d hoped for.
“He was like, ‘That’s really nice,’” Ahmed said. “‘I would advise you not to show any other teachers.’”
He kept the clock inside his school bag in English class, but the teacher complained when the alarm beeped in the middle of a lesson. Ahmed brought his invention up to show her afterward.
“She was like, it looks like a bomb,” he said.
“I told her, ‘It doesn’t look like a bomb to me.’”
The teacher kept the clock. When the principal and a police officer pulled Ahmed out of sixth period, he suspected he wouldn’t get it back.
They led Ahmed into a room where four other police officers waited. He said an officer he’d never seen before leaned back in his chair and remarked: “Yup. That’s who I thought it was.”
But still, the 1st teacher here isnt telling him that it would cause alarm, at least according to this quote. And the description of what happened in the English class doesnt seem like much of an attempt to scare. Putting the two accounts together, 5/6 teachers didnt have a problem. So lets not necessarily tar the kid as an obvious hoax bomber (not that you personally are doing it) because one person thought it looked like a bomb.
didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
It's more than that. There was a lot of family history, history with this child, and if I remember correctly, there was at least some strong circumstantial evidence to suggest he intentionally put this together to look like a bomb.
Ahmed never claimed his device was anything but a clock, said police spokesman James McLellan. And police have no reason to think it was dangerous. But officers still didn’t believe Ahmed was giving them the whole story.
“We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb,” McLellan said. “He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation.”
Asked what broader explanation the boy could have given, the spokesman explained:
“It could reasonably be mistaken as a device if left in a bathroom or under a car. The concern was, what was this thing built for? Do we take him into custody?”
So 5/6 teachers didnt think it was a bomb. The police didnt think it was a bomb. Ahmed didnt claim it was a bomb. One English teacher thought it looked like a bomb. And the police say that if he did something with the pencil case that he in fact did NOT do -- leave it under a car or in a bathroom -- it could be mistaken for a bomb. So the police took him into custody.
Sorry, but that reeks of bullshit to me. I dont know if it was racism, overcaution or what. He didnt need to go to juvy if these are the facts. Im sure Britt will call me dense, because I am.
didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
It's more than that. There was a lot of family history, history with this child, and if I remember correctly, there was at least some strong circumstantial evidence to suggest he intentionally put this together to look like a bomb.
Can you link to the evidence?
No one including the police thought it was a bomb Â
On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Deej,
Just because the police didn't have any evidence doesn't mean they didn't believe it was a hoax. You're a lawyer, you know this is a difference between believing and proving. Also, your going on what was released publicly.
RE: RE: And for the crowd that thinks he knowingly built a hoax bomb Â
Just because the police didn't have any evidence doesn't mean they didn't believe it was a hoax. You're a lawyer, you know this is a difference between believing and proving. Also, your going on what was released publicly.
Believing things based on no evidence is called fantasy. Or pure speculation. We dont arrest people based on that. We dont suspend based on that. In a polite society we dont even talk about things based on no evidence.
"No evidence" is not the absence of "proof". It is a much more extreme position. I can have some evidence of something without "proof", especially when we need to define a level of evidence constituting proof. Lets put all evidence on a 0-100 scale. Proof may be 51% (preponderance), smoking gun (100%), beyond a reasonable doubt (95%? 99%?), clear and convincing (~66-80%?). Thus I could have some evidence, say 30%, and not meet any of these standards of proof. "No evidence" strikes me as 0%. That's a whole 'nother bag. It's not mere failure of a level of proof.
As for what was released publicly, the police said "no evidence". Should I speculate that it was a big lie? Why?
RE: RE: RE: And for the crowd that thinks he knowingly built a hoax bomb Â
Just because the police didn't have any evidence doesn't mean they didn't believe it was a hoax. You're a lawyer, you know this is a difference between believing and proving. Also, your going on what was released publicly.
Believing things based on no evidence is called fantasy. Or pure speculation. We dont arrest people based on that. We dont suspend based on that. In a polite society we dont even talk about things based on no evidence.
"No evidence" is not the absence of "proof". It is a much more extreme position. I can have some evidence of something without "proof", especially when we need to define a level of evidence constituting proof. Lets put all evidence on a 0-100 scale. Proof may be 51% (preponderance), smoking gun (100%), beyond a reasonable doubt (95%? 99%?), clear and convincing (~66-80%?). Thus I could have some evidence, say 30%, and not meet any of these standards of proof. "No evidence" strikes me as 0%. That's a whole 'nother bag. It's not mere failure of a level of proof.
As for what was released publicly, the police said "no evidence". Should I speculate that it was a big lie? Why?
Deej,
You don't know my background and all I know about yours is that your a lawyer. I'm one of the last people you need to lecture on why or why you don't arrest people.
You investigate/arrest people all the time based on PC, but PC doesn't always equal hard evidence that you can charge. Your making all sorts of hard assumptions on the boys side of things, but none on the side of the school or LE. I don't know why specifically they arrested/detained him and possibly never will.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And for the crowd that thinks he knowingly built a hoax bomb Â
You investigate/arrest people all the time based on PC, but PC doesn't always equal hard evidence that you can charge. Your making all sorts of hard assumptions on the boys side of things, but none on the side of the school or LE. I don't know why specifically they arrested/detained him and possibly never will.
What is hard evidence? You arrest people if you have a crime you can charge with the evidence at hand. You dont arrest people you cant charge.
Im not making "hard assumptions". Im merely taking the police at their word that they had "no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned" on the boy's part.
What point are you making? That it is possible that it was his intent notwithstanding a total lack of evidence? I agree, possible. But not grounds for being hauled off to jail, finger printed, and have your mug shot taken. Honestly, I dont even know how it is arguable.
That's really your take on the Cuban comments? We don't need to debate this. I know it's futile. People usually have their mind made up and see things the way they want (both people usually).
We know for a fact the first teacher he showed it to was the engineering teacher. That teacher said don't show it to anyone else. We don't know about any other comments the engineering teacher may have said to Ahmed because those details have not been made public.
He showed it to multiple other teachers and eventually one (his English teacher) confused it for a bomb.
Cuban also expressed skepticism on other aspects of his story in general
To the initial point of the thread. I'd need to see some compelling evidence of misconduct or racial bias to believe a lawsuit is warranted. The most egregious point so far (without hearing the other side or me knowing the actual law) seems like detaining a minor and questioning him without parental consent. If that's the law.
you're right that all you need to arrest is PC. But if you have "no evidence" of intent on an intent based crime, you have no PC. That's what I mean re you dont arrest when you cant charge. There are some circumstances where the police might make an arrest before being about to charge. But the window is really short anyway -- 72 hours I think.
here is a link to video of Cuban's comments, starting at 53 seconds, and really starting at 1:38. Cuban's point is 100% in the kid's support. I take it in fact that Cuban maybe made a mistake. But his point is that the 6th teacher is the one who said dont show anyone else, not an earlier teacher. (Cuban later says he should not have been arrested but should have answered the questions.)
What do you think Cuban is saying? Do you really think AFTER WATCHING THIS that Cuban's point is that some other teacher warned Ahmed earlier in the day? Nonsense dude. Cuban conflated the earlier teacher and the reporting teacher, so he definitely wasnt saying Ahmed was warned. Link - ( New Window )
We know for a fact the first teacher he showed it to was the engineering teacher. That teacher said don't show it to anyone else. We don't know about any other comments the engineering teacher may have said to Ahmed because those details have not been made public.
But we dont know why. Maybe the reason was that the first teacher thought that some of his colleagues were idiots. Like people who believed that Jade Helm 15 was a government plot to invade the SW. Not that it actually looked like a bomb. 5 of 6 teachers apparently did not think it looked like a bomb.
We know for a fact the first teacher he showed it to was the engineering teacher. That teacher said don't show it to anyone else. We don't know about any other comments the engineering teacher may have said to Ahmed because those details have not been made public.
But we dont know why. Maybe the reason was that the first teacher thought that some of his colleagues were idiots. Like people who believed that Jade Helm 15 was a government plot to invade the SW. Not that it actually looked like a bomb. 5 of 6 teachers apparently did not think it looked like a bomb.
I wish we could attach a turbine to your arms. With all the hand waving you do, we could solve our energy problems for 30 years.
You investigate/arrest people all the time based on PC, but PC doesn't always equal hard evidence that you can charge. Your making all sorts of hard assumptions on the boys side of things, but none on the side of the school or LE. I don't know why specifically they arrested/detained him and possibly never will.
What is hard evidence? You arrest people if you have a crime you can charge with the evidence at hand. You dont arrest people you cant charge.
Im not making "hard assumptions". Im merely taking the police at their word that they had "no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned" on the boy's part.
What point are you making? That it is possible that it was his intent notwithstanding a total lack of evidence? I agree, possible. But not grounds for being hauled off to jail, finger printed, and have your mug shot taken. Honestly, I dont even know how it is arguable.
Actually you do. You really believe every case the police work gets prosecuted? Every LE agency in the country works 100's if not 1000's of investigations that never see a courtroom or get charged. Somtimes a DA looks at them and decides their may be issues with how evidence was siezed, maybe they don't believe the evidence is strong enough, maybe they don't think its worth the battle in court, but I assure you, case are worked all the time that involve arrests and don't go to court.
Why this never went further then his detention/arrest is a matter that can only be answered by those directly invovled. Even then we may never know because we'd have to hope they give a candid answer, which also may never happen. Did the police detain/arrest because of policy, racism or PC? We don't know thier thought process, we can only attempt to go over media reports and come up with our best guess.
you're right that all you need to arrest is PC. But if you have "no evidence" of intent on an intent based crime, you have no PC. That's what I mean re you dont arrest when you cant charge. There are some circumstances where the police might make an arrest before being about to charge. But the window is really short anyway -- 72 hours I think.
Again, we don't know why they arrested or detained. The only person who can answer this is the responding officers who may never give a candid response. They may have felt they had PC, maybe it was policy or racist. LE officers make judgement calls on experience all the time. Many times they believe they have PC and when they or another go over all the facts they may find out they had PC for the arrest, but nothing more. PC doesn't always equal charges.
I've said over and over on this thread that Bomb threats, fire alarms being pulled, fake weapons, etc... get the same treatment at schools. Kids get taken out in cuffs, etc... That it's standard protocol what happened to Mohamed.
But those kids never actually get charged. I think it's more of a scared straight thing than anything.
I believe Mohamed and his family gamed the system. Â
And they would know the system, too, considering the sister had been put up for expulsion the year before for a threat to "blow up" the school. They were very familiar with the protocol, IMO.
was murdered and got $5M this kid thinks he deserves $15M?
I don't know if he gamed this system or not. I think it's entirely plausible given the family history and actions post-incident that it is true - they did game the system, but who knows, it's possible that wasn't the case. Without the release of the information we won't know (if we ever do).
but if he just took his scholarships and 15 minutes of fame and lived his life I'd find it more believable, but when he tweets very shortly after being released from jail "going to see my lawyer" while a huge smile, and the family near hysteria that #istandwithahmed is trending #1 on twitter, they seemed almost giddy, I lose some of my faith he's on the level and get suspicious.
something about the whole incident seems off to me.
police and teachers are automatically the guilty ones.
The facts of the day are murky, but clearly the school and police were being bigots. CLEARLY! Forget the absurdity and obscurity of the entire ordeal including parties involved; a Muslim kid was detained and investigated for a bomb hoax at a school in America. The school and police are clearly bigots! End of story! Support and pay the kid!
Because I see people working so hard everyday to make a difference.
You guys aren't going to believe this because it sounds so sappy, but I guarantee you its 1000% true and dead accurate.... I was coming out of my break room with my lunch the other day, and a couple doors down a colleague of mine was having a very vocal argument with a kid he had pulled out of class for disruption. The school resource officer (police officer) was also walking by. We acknowledged each other, and the situation down the hall, with a nod, and he said "I don't know how you guys do it, you are some of the most patient people I know." I thought about it for a second and said "you and I are very much alike in that regard." He kind of laughed but not in a "it's funny" sort of way, and I went in my classroom to eat lunch.
The general public truly has no idea. It would be a real eye opener if they did.
you're right that all you need to arrest is PC. But if you have "no evidence" of intent on an intent based crime, you have no PC. That's what I mean re you dont arrest when you cant charge. There are some circumstances where the police might make an arrest before being about to charge. But the window is really short anyway -- 72 hours I think.
Again, we don't know why they arrested or detained. The only person who can answer this is the responding officers who may never give a candid response. They may have felt they had PC, maybe it was policy or racist. LE officers make judgement calls on experience all the time. Many times they believe they have PC and when they or another go over all the facts they may find out they had PC for the arrest, but nothing more. PC doesn't always equal charges.
Of course we know why he was arrested. The police report said he was charged with building a hoax bomb.
As for the rest of this, we're going in circles. I agree the police may arrest thinking they have PC and then later conclude they do not. You wont acknowledge that the police said they have no evidence of the key element of the hoax weapon crime -- intent. NO EVIDENCE. How do you go from PC to no evidence--what changed? It's like arreting someone for murder and then saying that you have no evidence that the cause of death was homicide.
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
intentional? intentional.
Please elaborate.
Quote:
Impeccable timing.
Please elaborate.
yes please do
Quote:
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
the best part of this is that I don't have the first clue what his name is, just that he's the "clock kid."
the worst part is that he'll get paid somehow. the SB will settle out of court.
I think they're undervaluing what they should be asking for here.
Quote:
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
I have no idea what this kids name is or what he looks like.
He never would have been invited to the White House. He could be a QB for the Bengals, but never get an invitation to the White House...
Sure it would have. Gingers have no souls.
Quote:
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
I do. Decades long campaign by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce mostly. It plays up the handful of absurd cases or relies on poor characterizations of the facts to convince the legislators and the public that we need all kind of protections from boogeyman lawyers. Like damages caps to somehow prevent frivolous (ie worthless) cases.
the thing about red heads is lack of pigmentation.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting.
Link - ( New Window )
Don't be foolish. If he was a ginger it would have been a real bomb...
It was a "stunt"?
Quote:
In comment 12640863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Impeccable timing.
Please elaborate.
yes please do
Perhaps, in light of recent events, it might be a little more difficult than usual to find a sympathetic jury?
Less a kit and more like a decontructed and re-built mid 1990s Radio Shack clock radio.
This kid needs to be arrested for a bomb hoax.
and a teacher he showed it to previously had warned him not to show it to other teachers or anyone else, yet he still did and then when questioned about it became evasive and uncooperative.
I think stunt is appropriate given the family history and the details that were reported.
so you believe he purposely tried to do all of this, get arrested, and humiliated, so he could what exactly? move away? all that "Fame" he got is diminishing by the day,so if you think he was really trying to get that i believe you are mistaken.
maybe you are being sarcstic? i am really hoping so.
The American boy arrested for making a clock meets Sudan’s president, an accused war criminal - ( New Window )
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
Notice how everyone is outraged over the law suit but ignore this
i highly doubt they really were hoping for this, is it a a thing now? no they certainly have that ability now, but i am not buying the fact this was a stunt and that they planned for all of this to happen, that sounds idiotic.
... the boy told The News that he spent just 20 minutes soldering a digital display to a circuit board and power supply, which he put inside a pencil case. His description matched a photo of the clock that police later released.
and ...
A statement sent out Tuesday from Irving City Hall acknowledged that a police “investigation determined the student apparently did not intend to cause alarm bringing the device to school.”
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
Quote:
About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
Notice how everyone is outraged over the law suit but ignore this
that's terrible, but only tangentially related to the OP at best. I won't claim there was no racial bias with how Mohamad was treated I have no idea, but this story and the other are mutually exclusive. start another thread and we can all say how awful the other one is.
Quote:
In comment 12640869 Miami_JintsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 12640863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Impeccable timing.
Please elaborate.
yes please do
Perhaps, in light of recent events, it might be a little more difficult than usual to find a sympathetic jury?
And I hope you've found your safe space to recover from the microaggression.
Now, given that the kid's family picked up and is living the dream in Qatar now, screw them also.
Finally, Omar al-Bashir isn't just a bad guy. In fact, he's literally the #1 most wanted man in the International Criminal Court. Even ahead of all the Israeli lawmakers that I imagine make up #'s 2-100, so you know he's up to no good.
No one, not even the president, let the facts come out before praising this kid in the name of STEM and academic learning.
No one, not even the president, let the facts come out before praising this kid in the name of STEM and academic learning.
What makes you think Obummer wasnt in on it?
Quote:
Quote:
In the aftermath of the incident, Mohamed’s attorneys assert, the teenager’s name and likeness will be “forever associated with arguably the most contentious and divisive socio-political issue of our time.”
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
I have no idea what this kids name is or what he looks like.
His name is Clockmed.
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
Quote:
didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
Depends on the intent, doesn't it, counselor?
Is your intent is to invent/build a clock from scratch, or is your intent to repackage something that already exists to look like something else?
Quote:
to take a clock that looks like a clock and turn it into a clock that looks like a bomb.
I agree with this. And also if he moved out of country, that he should go fuck himself along with his lawsuit.
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
WTF? Obviously ISIS is behind the law suit, right?
Quote:
In comment 12641141 Matt M. said:
Quote:
didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
Depends on the intent, doesn't it, counselor?
Is your intent is to invent/build a clock from scratch, or is your intent to repackage something that already exists to look like something else?
Why is that relevent to a false arrest law suit? It would be ok to arrest him for a bomb hoax if it was a gutted commercial clock but not if he built it himself?
Seems specious. What is relevant is what the cops thought when they arrested him (from what I know I think the school personnel acted very reasonably). Did the cops know how he made the clock? That was deduced on the internet days later, though he may have told them that on the spot. But if the cops were in the dark it seems an irrelevant fact to the claim.
It's like if A and B get into a simple fender bender at a stop sign. An argument ensues and A beats B with a tire iron. Does it matter whether A or B was at fault in the traffic accident? Maybe on the periphery, but on the whole no. Similarly, whether he faked the clock could peripherally be something in the mix of information the cops had when assessing whether this was a hoax bomb. But whether it was a hoax homemade clock doesnt seem independently relevant.
Quote:
In comment 12641015 manh george said:
Quote:
to take a clock that looks like a clock and turn it into a clock that looks like a bomb.
I agree with this. And also if he moved out of country, that he should go fuck himself along with his lawsuit.
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
WTF? Obviously ISIS is behind the law suit, right?
It's how ISIS gets its funding, duh!
If he wanted it to have a suspicious appearance it could be relevant. Kind of. More important is what the police had reason to believe.
My point is very different however, which is that the mere fact that he likely faked building a homemade alarm clock is irrelevant to whether he made a hoax bomb. Original vs. de-packaged clock is a different issue from making it look like a bomb.
invented - "create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of"
Now let's look at the word hoax.
hoax - "to trick into believing or accepting as genuine something false and often preposterous"
You're a lawyer, Deej, correct? Pretend your job is arguing the city's case. You can't build your case around these very simple definitions?
Kids get arrested for things everyday like calling in a fake bomb threat or pulling a fire alarm in school. Is this really much different, if there is even any chance that the devices appearance was intentional?
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
The kid (probably) made a hoax clock. Not a crime. Making a hoax bomb is a crime. The rule cant be that any hoax is a hoax bomb. The police would have to suspect at time of arrest that he intended to make a hoax BOMB.
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I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
Yet, there was never any bomb squad called in. The school took it seriously, but the authorities didn't deem the clock a threat at all, why is that?
Plugged in with the time showing? I bet it looked exactly like a clock.
Does it look like a bomb? What sort of bomb needs to plug into the wall? Where is the explosive? If he wanted to make a hoax bomb, wouldnt it have fake dynamite sticks, silly putty plastic explosives or SOMETHING that was supposed to blow up?
I dont want to be this kid's defender because I honestly dont care. But the notion of fake clock = he got whatever was coming is kind of dumb to me. Maybe not damages dumb, but still dumb.
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
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I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
How often does this happen?
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Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
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In comment 12641305 David in LA said:
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I do think the lawsuit is frivolous, but the chatter around here that he intentionally duped everyone bears the burden of proof is giving a kid way too much credit.
That's not the point. We get bomb threats called into my school all the time. They don't ever really think that there's a bomb, but we have to evacuate, call the fire and police department, and stand outside in all kinds of conditions until they have inspected every inch of the school and declared it clear. They still get arrested if caught.
How often does this happen?
Funny you should ask... We had our first bomb threat of the year called in last month, and just last week some dumbass kid pulled the fire alarm in the cafeteria. They caught the kid that pulled the fire alarm and he was charged. Standard procedure.
The point is, bomb threat called in, a fire alarm pulled, or a fake plastic gun brought in painted to look like a real gun (also happens with more regularity than you think)..... Just because the cops know it's not a real threat doesn't mean they don't still charge you.
That, IMO, is a lot closer to what happened here than an entire town trying to persecute a family.
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In comment 12641324 B in ALB said:
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Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
He wasnt arrested for making a fake clock. He was arrested for making a fake bomb. So whether it looks like a bomb seems like a much more relevant question.
I dont know what a home made clock would look like. Do you?
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In comment 12641324 B in ALB said:
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Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
Yes, I'm the dumb fuck, yet I'm not the one positing whether something's a bomb because there's a circuit board there. Deej mentioned it earlier, but the device plugs into a fucking wall.
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In comment 12641324 B in ALB said:
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Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
Uh oh. You are arguing with David in LA? Be prepared to get called an Islamophobe. Or a racist. That's how he rolls.
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In comment 12641336 David in LA said:
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In comment 12641324 B in ALB said:
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Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
I asked if it looks like a clock. Not if it looks like a bomb, you dumb fuck.
Yes, I'm the dumb fuck, yet I'm not the one positing whether something's a bomb because there's a circuit board there. Deej mentioned it earlier, but the device plugs into a fucking wall.
It plugs into a wall? Then why did the alarm go off?
No, to most reasonable people it did not look like a clock and I believe it was his English teacher who reported it to the principal and I'm going to guess many English teachers aren't qualified to make a call about what a bomb looks like or what a homemade clock looks like. And I don't want my kids English teacher taking it upon herself to make that determination about what constitutes a threat because she doesn't know how to identify a homemade clock. I think erring on the site of caution was correct.
reporting it to the principal was fine, especially after the science teacher he brought it in to show said don't show it to anyone, because the device will "alarm school staff".
after the principal got involved is when things got out of control, but Mohamed also contributed to that by allegedly not being forthcoming with the police. His family has also reportedly not waived their rights to privacy to allow the school to explain themselves, so all we are hearing is one "official" side to the events (the families) so it's wrong to reach any conclusions IMO (beyond the reasonable yes he should probably not have been cuffed, arrested, and denied access to his parents, a phone and a lawyer) but I have no idea what contributed to the police acting in that manner, and I don't think anyone else does (so people chalk it up to racism).
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In comment 12641015 manh george said:
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to take a clock that looks like a clock and turn it into a clock that looks like a bomb.
I agree with this. And also if he moved out of country, that he should go fuck himself along with his lawsuit.
He's acting strangely. I wonder if he and his family are THAT dim-witted that they are easily being courted by folks who are manipulating them with money/promises of money?
WTF? Obviously ISIS is behind the law suit, right?
I originally said to myself "he can't be THIS stupid. But then I realized who it was posting, and therefore you are.
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if he intentionally wanted the repackaged device to give off a suspicious appearance, then the "false arrest" for a bomb hoax wouldn't necessarily be a "false" arrest, would it?
If he wanted it to have a suspicious appearance it could be relevant. Kind of. More important is what the police had reason to believe.
My point is very different however, which is that the mere fact that he likely faked building a homemade alarm clock is irrelevant to whether he made a hoax bomb. Original vs. de-packaged clock is a different issue from making it look like a bomb.
Are you seriously fucking doubting his intent? He's smiling with warlords, suing the town for 15 million AFTER he and his disgusting family refused to cooperate with law enforcement during the conducting of their investigation. They rolled the dice, it worked and now they want more.
Fuck them and fuck anybody who refuses to believe these are bad people.
BTW, David in LA, what now? That idiot is bound to come call me an Islamaphobe any minute anyway. Fucking wanker.
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Does anyone really believe that thing looks like a fucking clock?
Serious question, do you know what a fucking bomb looks like?
Here's your serious answer....they look like this:
Those are all disarmed briefcase bombs. This is Ahmed's "clock":
Nice rebuttal. I rest my case (no pun intended). You're too stupid to process common sense.
This illustrates that you should just try and not overextend your normal everyday way of life labeling people and casting aspersions by tempting fate with discerning common sense.
No shit the cops didnt call the bomb squad. The teachers couldnt tell and called the cops. Cops knew why the teachers called the cops and questioned the kid, who was apparently COMPLETELY uncooperative. Then, when the cops attempt to access the parents, THEY in turn stonewall the cops. Months later, after precious little Ahmed receives national attention including a visit to the White House, scholarships to several private schools and even a goofy appearance on the Larry Wilmore show...after all that, he decides to sue the town for 15 million? And you really think this WASN'T staged?
Fuck ANYBODY who thinks this little twerp deserves what he got already.
1) I don't have a pawn shop. 2) I buy and sell stones to other jewelers, I rarely interface with retail customers, but keep taking cheap shots at how I make a living.
COps get called, Kids get handcuffed in school all the time for suspicion of drugs, weapons, threats, fights, being high etc.
His parents cried racism and he became a national symbol/hero of a persecuted victim of islamaphobia and went on a world tour. CLock? The little prick knew exactly what he was doing, and the little game he was playing with school officials by putting his so called great clock invention into that briefcase. Now they are suing for 15 mil. They're scumbags.
Jolly Blue Giant : 9:39 pm : link : reply
Say somthing
But, but David says we're all Islamaphobes for thinking such things! David knows the difference between right and wrong!
Normal kids like us had to actually accomplish something to pay to go to good schools.
I'm sure those that supported him are heartbroken that they won't see his genius blossom in this country.
Skin color works both ways, I definitely don't think what happened to him was right, but I honestly can't say that racism and Islamophobia are all that I see here.
In comment 12640856 Britt in VA said:
I had forgotten completely about this story until this lawsuit.
I have no idea what this kids name is or what he looks like.
His name is Clockmed.
I laughed
And as the months go on, it looks more and more like the kid, or his family, played everyone, exploited society and preyed on the emotions of those on social media.
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About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
So I guess we need to focus on the former?
And as the months go on, it looks more and more like the kid, or his family, played everyone, exploited society and preyed on the emotions of those on social media.
Pfffft. Whatever. Do you even know what a homemade briefcase clock looks like?
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They hid behind this guise that STEM and academic learning was being usurped from this poor kid who was simply trying to get an education. They gave no benefit of the doubt to the school or police; it was a clear case of bigotry towards a Muslim.
And as the months go on, it looks more and more like the kid, or his family, played everyone, exploited society and preyed on the emotions of those on social media.
Pfffft. Whatever. Do you even know what a homemade briefcase clock looks like?
I think he's agreeing that the family and little douchebag are at fault.
Fuck him and his family. I hope they get recruited by knifepoint by ISIS
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meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
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About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
So I guess we need to focus on the former?
Good one.
Sarcasm sucks.
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In comment 12640921 Deej said:
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meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
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About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
So I guess we need to focus on the former?
Good one.
Brilliant, insightful response.
If you actually READ through the whole thread it has the majority obliterating this putz while the original defenders of this pencil neck have been more like :
(I regret that I had to use to such a cool movie scene to illustrate what the dum dums have been suggesting to this point).
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In comment 12641631 Sarcastic Sam said:
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In comment 12640921 Deej said:
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meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
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About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
So I guess we need to focus on the former?
Good one.
Brilliant, insightful response.
Good one.
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In comment 12641647 Deej said:
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In comment 12641631 Sarcastic Sam said:
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In comment 12640921 Deej said:
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meanwhile in Irving, TX -- where this incident took place -- we have this from this weekend:
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About a dozen protesters — most carrying long guns, some masked and one with his mother — lined up outside an Irving mosque on Saturday. They had come from as far away as Hunt County to the green-domed complex. To “Stop the Islamization of America,” as the mother’s hand-drawn sign urged.
Just horrifying. Im picturing people standing outside my synagogue with guns and masks telling people about how they're just trying to stop the Jewification of America. It's disgusting. Link - ( New Window )
OK, so on one hand, you have 12 morons rallying in Texas.
On the other hand, you have 1.2 million lawyers destroying America.
So I guess we need to focus on the former?
Good one.
Brilliant, insightful response.
Good one.
I know you are, but what am I?
I mean... Thanks!
I think it's an abstract art piece... like a treatise on the modernity of technology obsoleting social norms.
I mean, who the fuck uses a clock anymore? Or a briefcase? Or TTL logic?
Let them have to drag their asses back to the U.S. to have the kid deposed.
Get all the facts out in this incident.
David's best response was: I'm too smart to dignify that with a response. (translated:I ain't got shit)
the police decided not to prosecute and he was released. This should be a no story.
On a personal note, I believe the kid knew it could be mistaken for a bomb and the cops should have pursued it.
On the comments that it doesn't look like a bomb, well it doesn't look like a clock either as a container with loose wires,
maybe one of the cops was on the bomb squad or had training. Most police departments don't have a separate bomb squad and most have part time swat teams. So your average patrol officer could be on one or both. If not, they could have texted a picture to a bomb squad member which is the first thing they are told to do.
Maybe the cops didn't think it was a credible threat, but you assume a lot and often.
yes.
My opinion is that this kid, probably with some help from his dad, took advantage of the current climate of America in which racism lurks around every corner, real or perceived (Ferguson), and played the American media/public (including the President) for fools.
They'll be laughing all the way to the bank. In Qatar.
• Just three weeks into his freshman year, Mohamed was no "science whiz well-known by high school teachers for tinkering."
• The "clock" wasn't made from scratch but just the guts of a mass-manufactured digital clock, complete with AC cord and 9-volt backup battery connection.
• With its exposed wires and lack of a face, the gutted clock looked like a bomb. It also sounded like a bomb: The alarm was set to go off during English class; the beeping startled the teacher who called police.
• When police questioned Mohamed, he wasn't cooperative and was described as "disrespectful."
• The police chief said the device was "intended to create a level of alarm; in other words, a hoax bomb."
• Mohamed's Sudanese father — a Muslim political activist involved in previous Muslim grievances — reportedly asked the cops to re-handcuff his son — so his daughter could take the photo that went viral.
• Mohamed tweeted: "Thank you fellow supporters. We can ban together to stop this racial inequality."
• The family's spokesperson is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a terror-tied group that in 2006 sued US Airways for kicking several Muslim activists off a flight for behaving suspiciously and rattling passengers — a stunt that looks eerily similar.
Link - ( New Window )
Good job, bleeding hearts of the media and the rest of America.
Some of this stuff is relevant. If the family was aiming to make a mountain out of a relative molehill, that should undercut a claim of damages. E.g. if the father asked that the kid be handcuffed for a photo (I hadnt heard that before but I dont follow this closely), then are the embarrassment damages self-inflicted? Probably.
Some of this stuff is relevant. If the family was aiming to make a mountain out of a relative molehill, that should undercut a claim of damages. E.g. if the father asked that the kid be handcuffed for a photo (I hadnt heard that before but I dont follow this closely), then are the embarrassment damages self-inflicted? Probably.
You suck!! =)
You suck!! =)
Really needs its own thread. To complicated to address here.
Some of this stuff is relevant. If the family was aiming to make a mountain out of a relative molehill, that should undercut a claim of damages. E.g. if the father asked that the kid be handcuffed for a photo (I hadnt heard that before but I dont follow this closely), then are the embarrassment damages self-inflicted? Probably.
And how convenient is it, that the public will never know the school's or police side of the story due to rocksolid privacy laws for minors. The school system begged Muhamed's family to let them release their side of the story, but they refused to sign off on it. So when this gets thrown out in court, it will be because they have access to that side of the story. But the public never will. All the public knows is what Muhamed's family wants them to know, through their attorneys.
No, no. Feel free to stick to your riveting contributions on Joe Beningo, Computer Help, and James Jones. Much more in need of attention in this world.
Good job, bleeding hearts of the media and the rest of America.
This reminds me of a Final Jeopardy question:
Link - ( New Window )
Obama as usual jumped into this situation without the facts like he did with the professor "police acted stupidly", Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown etc and he should have been embarrassed especially after this kid is embracing a dictator wanted for genocide in Darfur a day or so before being celebrated at the White House. Obama has a bad history of backing the criminals over the police.
Not about Obama but more to your view on people not paying attention to nuanced points, I have to deal with that on a daily basis as I try to train young analysts to see beyond what they read and what information they see. It's rather disheartening that even after so much training and coaching, more than half the people cannot go beyond the immediate facts to look deeper into issues/topics that they are examining.
There are a couple of Muslim Americans on the recently released Rhodes Scholar list, why doesn't he invite them to the WH? Instead he invited someone who re-assembled a clock in a briefcase, this doesn't really advance social progressivism or racial equality.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
I think if the President just waited for facts before rushing to judgment or commentary and "picking sides" (always the same side it seems in these racially charged incidents) he'd be better off.
After the facts are known he wants to invite Ahmed to the White House, at least he's doing so with a firm understanding of the situation, not a rush to judgment which makes him seem divisive to his detractors (and probably what endears him to a lot of his supporters).
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I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
You weren't around for the Rodney King verdict and aftermath, then?
Really? Taking the cop's version of the story as true, a black man comes home from a trip, has trouble getting into his house and his neighbor calls the police. Policeman show up and the man is agitated already. Police come to believe 100% that he is not breaking in because he lives there, so he goes to leave. Still agitated man is barking at the cop. Cop arrests him for disorderly conduct after a warning. [Gates's version was much worse for the cop]
Totally unnecessary arrest. "Stupid" IMO. People get to vent without being arrested for disorderly conduct, especially on the porch of their own home after their neighbor called the cop on them as a black man purportedly trying to break into a home.
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I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
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I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
Who says Travon Martin wasnt killed due to race?
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it seems to me, he went out of his way to ignore the nuanced points of that incident.
Really? Taking the cop's version of the story as true, a black man comes home from a trip, has trouble getting into his house and his neighbor calls the police. Policeman show up and the man is agitated already. Police come to believe 100% that he is not breaking in because he lives there, so he goes to leave. Still agitated man is barking at the cop. Cop arrests him for disorderly conduct after a warning. [Gates's version was much worse for the cop]
Totally unnecessary arrest. "Stupid" IMO. People get to vent without being arrested for disorderly conduct, especially on the porch of their own home after their neighbor called the cop on them as a black man purportedly trying to break into a home.
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In comment 12642294 Deej said:
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I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
Who says Travon Martin wasnt killed due to race?
The Department of Justice and evidence from the case.
Hilary Clinton's tweet was horrendous:
"Assumptions and fear don't keep us safe..."
Implicating the school/ police of being bigots and that race or religion should be placed over safety.
Did he? This article suggests no, but maybe he did subsequently.
In any event, Im entitled to a different opinion than Obama. I think the cops shouldnt arrest someone under those circumstances. They should just apologize for the hassle (good faith as it was), and walk away. And that's if you buy the cop's story. If you buy Gates's version, it was beyond merely stupid.
Link - ( New Window )
The Department of Justice and evidence from the case.
OK, you're one of six people on the planet who believe Treyvon would have been shot if he were white.
Who says Travon Martin wasnt killed due to race?
The Department of Justice and evidence from the case.
The DOJ said no such thing. DOJ said:
After a thorough and independent investigation into the facts surrounding the shooting, federal investigators determined that there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt a violation of these statutes. Accordingly, the investigation into this incident has been closed. This decision is limited strictly to the department’s inability to meet the high legal standard required to prosecute the case under the federal civil rights statutes; it does not reflect an assessment of any other aspect of the shooting.
The evidence goes both ways. He wasnt convicted, but that just means that there was reasonable doubt.
Link - ( New Window )
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I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
But Travon Martin was killed due to racism and actions of a dickbag racist fuck.
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Unlike you, even Obama had to back off on his "stupid" comment once the nuances of the case came out.
Did he? This article suggests no, but maybe he did subsequently.
In any event, Im entitled to a different opinion than Obama. I think the cops shouldnt arrest someone under those circumstances. They should just apologize for the hassle (good faith as it was), and walk away. And that's if you buy the cop's story. If you buy Gates's version, it was beyond merely stupid. Link - ( New Window )
"On July 22, President Barack Obama said about the incident, "I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home, and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately." Law enforcement organizations and members objected to Obama's comments and criticized his handling of the issue. In the aftermath, Obama stated that he regretted his comments and hoped that the situation could become a "teachable moment"."
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 12642294 Deej said:
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I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
But Travon Martin was killed due to racism and actions of a dickbag racist fuck.
Ronnie, the way some people act on this board, prejudice and bias does not exist at all in America.
So here we are once again... In the middle.
He said he didnt know if racism was a factor, but separate and apart from the HLG incident that there is a history of people of color being stopped disproportionately. So he drew no conclusion and stated something that I would just hope is not too contested -- that people of color get stopped a lot more than whites. Nuance.
In the same statement he said the cop acted stupidly. My take on the facts is that the cop arrested a guy for mouthing off after the cop came to investigate whether the 60 year old black man was breaking into what turned out to be his own house. That's a fucking stupid arrest if you ask me. I did not sleep safer knowing that Henry Gates was off the streets that night. I dont think you need much nuance on that point.
Why does racism need to be brought up? Because the cop wouldn't have come had the tip been that a white man was trying to forcefully open the door?
Racism exists, but to instigate just to make a point is simply counterproductive to the cause.
Is it racist for me to say that a white man or Asian man would just politely hand the officer his proof of residence and none of this had to happen?
So here we are once again... In the middle.
Actually, biases do exist everywhere. It makes people VERY uncomfortable to acknowledge.
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Even with what we know today I agree with what Obama said. I would be pissed if the cops were preventing me from entering my own home.
If the cops saw someone breaking into your house and did nothing, you would have been even more pissed after you were robbed. When he proved his identity as the homeowner, they let him go in. It would have ended there if he did not go off on them. What happened after that is a matter of debate whether the conduct met the definition of disorderly conduct.
I mostly agree. It's pretty doubtful that yelling at someone from your porch could ever meet the standard of D.C. though. And even if it arguably could, the cop should have just walked away. If we need to be arresting people for yelling at someone from their porch, it need not be 60 year old men who were just hassled as a potential B&E suspect at their own home.
Strikes me as a stupid arrest.
...
Defendant who did not physically resist his arrest arising out of a domestic violence incident could not be convicted of disorderly conduct based solely on his loud and angry tirade, which included profanities, directed at police officers as he was being escorted to police cruiser, even if spectators gathered to watch defendant; defendant did not make any threats or engage in violence, and his speech did not constitute fighting words. Com. v. Mallahan (2008) 72 Mass.App.Ct. 1103, 889 N.E.2d 77, 2008 WL 2404550.
...
Defendant's conduct, namely, flailing his arms and shouting at police, victim of recent assault, or both, after being told to leave area by police, did not amount to "violent or tumultuous behavior" within scope of disorderly conduct statute, absent any claim that defendant's protestations constituted threat of violence, or any evidence that defendant's flailing arms were anything but physical manifestation of his agitation or that noise and commotion caused by defendant's behavior was extreme. Com. v. Lopiano (2004) 805 N.E.2d 522, 60 Mass.App.Ct. 723.
Middle citation in particular is devastating to a DC charge in my opinion.
It is not a crime to yell at a cop from your porch.
What is 'disorderly conduct' in Massachusetts? - ( New Window )
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In comment 12642321 giant24 said:
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In comment 12642294 Deej said:
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I think Obama's jumping into this one was the least helpful, for a lot of the reasons you all just pointed out. I just dont think he's embarrassed over it. It's just such a small thing.
I disagree. giving credence to the lie that Travon Martin and Mike Brown were killed due to racism and police brutality towards blacks with the "could be my son" comments, sending delegates to Mike Brown's funeral, meeting and encouraging the protesters in Ferguson and never denouncing the lies after his own DOJ found no evidence of racism in these instances has led to the false creation of BLM and has divided this country unlike anything i have seen in my lifetime.
But Travon Martin was killed due to racism and actions of a dickbag racist fuck.
Ronnie, the way some people act on this board, prejudice and bias does not exist at all in America.
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
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I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
I still don't understand how that can be absolutely construed as outright racist behavior by individuals who are trusted with protecting us.
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In comment 12642495 B in ALB said:
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I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
Did he do those things? Even the police said it was obvious it wasnt a bomb. So unless he said something suggestive, I'd argue pretty strongly that he put a clock in a pencil case and did not have a lookalike weapon. He certainly wasnt charged.
So then it was more than likely known it wasn't a bomb--but was it an asshole kid with an agenda? Seems like it give his current location. So then he should be treated as a possible bomb hoaxer.
He should go fuck himself. And yes, while I support the President overall, he has been landing on the sides of some issues I can't support.
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In comment 12642513 Deej said:
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In comment 12642495 B in ALB said:
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I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
Did he do those things? Even the police said it was obvious it wasnt a bomb. So unless he said something suggestive, I'd argue pretty strongly that he put a clock in a pencil case and did not have a lookalike weapon. He certainly wasnt charged.
It is enough to be considered a lookalike weapon.
A kid can paint a water gun black, and when police get it in their hands, they immediately know it's not real. Does not change the outcome. It's prohibited on school property.
To ignore this fact over and over, that police should just know it was fake and therefore just let it go, shows a complete lack of understand for how zero tolerance, schools, and even police operate.
I don't understand why that point just can not seem to get through to some of you.
I still don't understand how that can be absolutely construed as outright racist behavior by individuals who are trusted with protecting us.
Respectfully, that's a non sequitor. They quickly determined at the school that it was not a bomb. I've seen no suggestion that the kid said it was a bomb. There was no evacuation or bomb squad called in. I dont think anyone has much criticism for the school or initial police investigation. But how precisely was anyone more safe by the police, THEREAFTER, cuffing, printing, and mug shotting the kid at a another location?
And Im leaving race aside. I have no idea whether race played a material role.
It is enough to be considered a lookalike weapon.
A kid can paint a water gun black, and when police get it in their hands, they immediately know it's not real. Does not change the outcome. It's prohibited on school property.
To ignore this fact over and over, that police should just know it was fake and therefore just let it go, shows a complete lack of understand for how zero tolerance, schools, and even police operate.
I don't understand why that point just can not seem to get through to some of you.
Your point isnt lost on me. But at what point does a lookalike stop being a lookalike? What if a kid painted a supersoaker red? Still a lookalike? That's my point. I think only an idiot would think that thing was a bomb. And if he was really trying to make it look like a bomb, he'd put something there that looked like a fake explosive. The fact that someone else may have overreacted to a clock in a box does not mean that the clock was necessarily a lookalike bomb.
So then it was more than likely known it wasn't a bomb--but was it an asshole kid with an agenda? Seems like it give his current location. So then he should be treated as a possible bomb hoaxer.
He should go fuck himself. And yes, while I support the President overall, he has been landing on the sides of some issues I can't support.
You're all over the map. The cops knew it wasn't a bomb when they looked at the case. They didn't know he was an asshole at the time and that shouldn't be relevant. I can see punishing the kid but the handcuffs, etc were over the top.
The most I have found is in early reports that Ahmed became uncooperative and evasive in his responses to the policemen. they felt he was not being forthcoming with what it was, why he brought it, and his intentions.
Until we see the file unsealed (which the family is stonewalling) you can't really say what led to the arrest or detainment - whatever you want to call it.
My assumption (my opinion) is Ahmed by being non-compliant/forthcoming with the details pushed the police to the steps they took, but I tend to believe the majority of people don't act in a case like this without provocation. I could be wrong
I believe the teacher 100% did the right thing, the principal also 100% did the right thing, not sure about the police, but even if they didn't do the 100% right thing, it doesn't seem too egregious (until we see the facts).
I see it. What if he didnt break a rule?
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In comment 12642526 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 12642513 Deej said:
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In comment 12642495 B in ALB said:
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I thought it was the latter with no charges filed. If true, is that really that big of a deal considering all of the threats to our schools we've seen come to fruition?
Mohammed? Questioned at school in office. He was then led out of school in handcuffs, went to juvy where he was finger printed, had a mug shot taken, and was questioned more before release. Not sure if that counts as "arrested". He was not charged.
All standard procedure when you call in a bomb threat, get caught with lookalike weapon, pull a fire alarm, etc... at school.
Did he do those things? Even the police said it was obvious it wasnt a bomb. So unless he said something suggestive, I'd argue pretty strongly that he put a clock in a pencil case and did not have a lookalike weapon. He certainly wasnt charged.
It is enough to be considered a lookalike weapon.
A kid can paint a water gun black, and when police get it in their hands, they immediately know it's not real. Does not change the outcome. It's prohibited on school property.
To ignore this fact over and over, that police should just know it was fake and therefore just let it go, shows a complete lack of understand for how zero tolerance, schools, and even police operate.
I don't understand why that point just can not seem to get through to some of you.
The police determined it wasn't a credible threat. I understand zero tolerance for weapons or fake weapons, but IMO it's impossible to 100% prove that Ahmad's intent was solely to embarrass the school. One other question, why do some people keep exaggerating the size of the device? It's very clearly a pencil case, and you can scale the size based off of looking at the plug for the outlet. I keep seeing the container described as a luggage bag or briefcase.
Regardless, if my 14 year old son wanted to make a clock for school I would strongly advise against putting it in a briefcase. I mean, come on.
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whether or not it was actually a bomb right there on-site. Did they call in a possible bomb? They didn't bring in bomb experts/dogs?
So then it was more than likely known it wasn't a bomb--but was it an asshole kid with an agenda? Seems like it give his current location. So then he should be treated as a possible bomb hoaxer.
He should go fuck himself. And yes, while I support the President overall, he has been landing on the sides of some issues I can't support.
You're all over the map. The cops knew it wasn't a bomb when they looked at the case. They didn't know he was an asshole at the time and that shouldn't be relevant. I can see punishing the kid but the handcuffs, etc were over the top.
Back at ya.
Regardless, if my 14 year old son wanted to make a clock for school I would strongly advise against putting it in a briefcase. I mean, come on.
Im not sure what your point is. I gave you the timeline. At the time he was led out of school in handcuffs, the police absolutely did not believe it was a bomb. From wikipedia (because I dont want to find another source, sorry):
Police determined that he had no malicious intent, and he was not charged with any crime.[12][16] Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that "the officers pretty quickly determined that they weren't investigating an explosive device", and that Mohammed was arrested over the prospect that it was a "hoax bomb".[17]
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Eh, I dont agree. If you believe his side of things, it was a naive HS freshman who probably didnt think about whether this would/could be mistaken for a bomb. I dont know if we want our kids being that cynical. Then again if you believe the douchebag family version, yeah it's terrible judgment.
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On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Using that same logic, I guess you don't think OJ committed the murders?
Lack of evidence does not mean he didn't intend to deceive people into thinking it was a bomb.
Regardless, if my 14 year old son wanted to make a clock for school I would strongly advise against putting it in a briefcase. I mean, come on.
Not a briefcase.
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and the police thought that when he was arrested:
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On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Using that same logic, I guess you don't think OJ committed the murders?
Lack of evidence does not mean he didn't intend to deceive people into thinking it was a bomb.
So by your logic everyone is guilty? Think about what you're saying.
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and the police thought that when he was arrested:
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On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Using that same logic, I guess you don't think OJ committed the murders?
Lack of evidence does not mean he didn't intend to deceive people into thinking it was a bomb.
You are confusing no evidence, preponderance of the evidence, and a jury finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. OJ's acquittal does not mean that there was NO EVIDENCE that he murdered those two people.
The police chief quoted above said that "We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned". "No evidence" is a very strong phrase. Now they're not saying it was no evidence of him making a hoax bomb, but it's pretty close to it, isnt it? And isnt a hoax bomb a crime of intent more than anything? One for which he wasnt charged...
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Shouldn't the exact timeline answer those questions? A timeline that shows exactly what happened and when...
Regardless, if my 14 year old son wanted to make a clock for school I would strongly advise against putting it in a briefcase. I mean, come on.
Not a briefcase.
No case at all. Have your kid carry it. Preferably taped to his body, under his clothes.
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I wonder what his parents were thinking. "Oh, that's cool. I'm sure your teachers will be impressed".
Eh, I dont agree. If you believe his side of things, it was a naive HS freshman who probably didnt think about whether this would/could be mistaken for a bomb. I dont know if we want our kids being that cynical. Then again if you believe the douchebag family version, yeah it's terrible judgment.
I agree with this, we don't want to deter children from being expressive or provocative (in a constructive way), but his science teacher told him, not to show it to anyone else because it could "alarm the staff". He showed it to several other teachers after that warning until his English teacher saw it and....was alarmed. He should not have been surprised with the alarm especially since the teacher he brought it in to show warned him and he should have been able to explain this to police.
the family history and fathers comments and all their actions post-incident stuff are secondary and speculative but they definitely make you question the naivety of the incident overall. It just seems suspicious.
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In comment 12642601 AP in Halfmoon said:
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I wonder what his parents were thinking. "Oh, that's cool. I'm sure your teachers will be impressed".
Eh, I dont agree. If you believe his side of things, it was a naive HS freshman who probably didnt think about whether this would/could be mistaken for a bomb. I dont know if we want our kids being that cynical. Then again if you believe the douchebag family version, yeah it's terrible judgment.
I agree with this, we don't want to deter children from being expressive or provocative (in a constructive way), but his science teacher told him, not to show it to anyone else because it could "alarm the staff". He showed it to several other teachers after that warning until his English teacher saw it and....was alarmed. He should not have been surprised with the alarm especially since the teacher he brought it in to show warned him and he should have been able to explain this to police.
the family history and fathers comments and all their actions post-incident stuff are secondary and speculative but they definitely make you question the naivety of the incident overall. It just seems suspicious.
Or he was uncooperative because he asked to speak to his parents (as he was possibly told to do or saw from TV) and his request was denied. I believe wrongfully (not sure).
There is a lot we dont know. Obviously his family could waive privacy, and if they pursue this litigation I assume they will have to do it. I dont know why anyone would have their heels dug in at this point on a definitive account/rationales.
turns up nothing. You have a story to link to?
turns up nothing. You have a story to link to?
Sure Deej, it's from the Mark Cuban story because the family won't allow release of information - not sure of the veracity, since it is Breitbart, but Cuban does acknowledge the two talked, I have no reason to believe this isn't true.
Ahmed warned the device might alarm school staff - according to Mark Cuban - ( New Window )
(Florida?). Here is what Cuban actually said:
Cuban is making the opposite point really. First teacher saw it, no problem. Second, third, fourth, fifth -- same. The sixth teacher was the "English teacher". That's the teacher who took away the clock/bomb and called the principal's office. It wasnt an earlier teacher. According to Cuban. DMN reports the story differently:
“He was like, ‘That’s really nice,’” Ahmed said. “‘I would advise you not to show any other teachers.’”
He kept the clock inside his school bag in English class, but the teacher complained when the alarm beeped in the middle of a lesson. Ahmed brought his invention up to show her afterward.
“She was like, it looks like a bomb,” he said.
“I told her, ‘It doesn’t look like a bomb to me.’”
The teacher kept the clock. When the principal and a police officer pulled Ahmed out of sixth period, he suspected he wouldn’t get it back.
They led Ahmed into a room where four other police officers waited. He said an officer he’d never seen before leaned back in his chair and remarked: “Yup. That’s who I thought it was.”
But still, the 1st teacher here isnt telling him that it would cause alarm, at least according to this quote. And the description of what happened in the English class doesnt seem like much of an attempt to scare. Putting the two accounts together, 5/6 teachers didnt have a problem. So lets not necessarily tar the kid as an obvious hoax bomber (not that you personally are doing it) because one person thought it looked like a bomb.
Link - ( New Window )
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didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
“We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb,” McLellan said. “He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation.”
Asked what broader explanation the boy could have given, the spokesman explained:
“It could reasonably be mistaken as a device if left in a bathroom or under a car. The concern was, what was this thing built for? Do we take him into custody?”
So 5/6 teachers didnt think it was a bomb. The police didnt think it was a bomb. Ahmed didnt claim it was a bomb. One English teacher thought it looked like a bomb. And the police say that if he did something with the pencil case that he in fact did NOT do -- leave it under a car or in a bathroom -- it could be mistaken for a bomb. So the police took him into custody.
Sorry, but that reeks of bullshit to me. I dont know if it was racism, overcaution or what. He didnt need to go to juvy if these are the facts. Im sure Britt will call me dense, because I am.
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In comment 12641141 Matt M. said:
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didn't they find out enough to make this look like a very frivolous suit, at the very least?
Do you think whether he invented the clock or just stripped a commercial alarm clock is particularly relevant to whether he should have been arrested for a bomb hoax? Seems irrelevant to me.
Were there other things discovered?
It's more than that. There was a lot of family history, history with this child, and if I remember correctly, there was at least some strong circumstantial evidence to suggest he intentionally put this together to look like a bomb.
Can you link to the evidence?
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On Wednesday, Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed would not be charged with any wrongdoing.
“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd said during a news conference after news of Mohamed’s arrest prompted a national outcry.
Link - ( New Window )
Deej,
Just because the police didn't have any evidence doesn't mean they didn't believe it was a hoax. You're a lawyer, you know this is a difference between believing and proving. Also, your going on what was released publicly.
Deej,
Just because the police didn't have any evidence doesn't mean they didn't believe it was a hoax. You're a lawyer, you know this is a difference between believing and proving. Also, your going on what was released publicly.
Believing things based on no evidence is called fantasy. Or pure speculation. We dont arrest people based on that. We dont suspend based on that. In a polite society we dont even talk about things based on no evidence.
"No evidence" is not the absence of "proof". It is a much more extreme position. I can have some evidence of something without "proof", especially when we need to define a level of evidence constituting proof. Lets put all evidence on a 0-100 scale. Proof may be 51% (preponderance), smoking gun (100%), beyond a reasonable doubt (95%? 99%?), clear and convincing (~66-80%?). Thus I could have some evidence, say 30%, and not meet any of these standards of proof. "No evidence" strikes me as 0%. That's a whole 'nother bag. It's not mere failure of a level of proof.
As for what was released publicly, the police said "no evidence". Should I speculate that it was a big lie? Why?
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Deej,
Just because the police didn't have any evidence doesn't mean they didn't believe it was a hoax. You're a lawyer, you know this is a difference between believing and proving. Also, your going on what was released publicly.
Believing things based on no evidence is called fantasy. Or pure speculation. We dont arrest people based on that. We dont suspend based on that. In a polite society we dont even talk about things based on no evidence.
"No evidence" is not the absence of "proof". It is a much more extreme position. I can have some evidence of something without "proof", especially when we need to define a level of evidence constituting proof. Lets put all evidence on a 0-100 scale. Proof may be 51% (preponderance), smoking gun (100%), beyond a reasonable doubt (95%? 99%?), clear and convincing (~66-80%?). Thus I could have some evidence, say 30%, and not meet any of these standards of proof. "No evidence" strikes me as 0%. That's a whole 'nother bag. It's not mere failure of a level of proof.
As for what was released publicly, the police said "no evidence". Should I speculate that it was a big lie? Why?
Deej,
You don't know my background and all I know about yours is that your a lawyer. I'm one of the last people you need to lecture on why or why you don't arrest people.
You investigate/arrest people all the time based on PC, but PC doesn't always equal hard evidence that you can charge. Your making all sorts of hard assumptions on the boys side of things, but none on the side of the school or LE. I don't know why specifically they arrested/detained him and possibly never will.
You investigate/arrest people all the time based on PC, but PC doesn't always equal hard evidence that you can charge. Your making all sorts of hard assumptions on the boys side of things, but none on the side of the school or LE. I don't know why specifically they arrested/detained him and possibly never will.
What is hard evidence? You arrest people if you have a crime you can charge with the evidence at hand. You dont arrest people you cant charge.
Im not making "hard assumptions". Im merely taking the police at their word that they had "no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned" on the boy's part.
What point are you making? That it is possible that it was his intent notwithstanding a total lack of evidence? I agree, possible. But not grounds for being hauled off to jail, finger printed, and have your mug shot taken. Honestly, I dont even know how it is arguable.
We know for a fact the first teacher he showed it to was the engineering teacher. That teacher said don't show it to anyone else. We don't know about any other comments the engineering teacher may have said to Ahmed because those details have not been made public.
He showed it to multiple other teachers and eventually one (his English teacher) confused it for a bomb.
Cuban also expressed skepticism on other aspects of his story in general
To the initial point of the thread. I'd need to see some compelling evidence of misconduct or racial bias to believe a lawsuit is warranted. The most egregious point so far (without hearing the other side or me knowing the actual law) seems like detaining a minor and questioning him without parental consent. If that's the law.
What do you think Cuban is saying? Do you really think AFTER WATCHING THIS that Cuban's point is that some other teacher warned Ahmed earlier in the day? Nonsense dude. Cuban conflated the earlier teacher and the reporting teacher, so he definitely wasnt saying Ahmed was warned.
Link - ( New Window )
We know for a fact the first teacher he showed it to was the engineering teacher. That teacher said don't show it to anyone else. We don't know about any other comments the engineering teacher may have said to Ahmed because those details have not been made public.
But we dont know why. Maybe the reason was that the first teacher thought that some of his colleagues were idiots. Like people who believed that Jade Helm 15 was a government plot to invade the SW. Not that it actually looked like a bomb. 5 of 6 teachers apparently did not think it looked like a bomb.
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We know for a fact the first teacher he showed it to was the engineering teacher. That teacher said don't show it to anyone else. We don't know about any other comments the engineering teacher may have said to Ahmed because those details have not been made public.
But we dont know why. Maybe the reason was that the first teacher thought that some of his colleagues were idiots. Like people who believed that Jade Helm 15 was a government plot to invade the SW. Not that it actually looked like a bomb. 5 of 6 teachers apparently did not think it looked like a bomb.
I wish we could attach a turbine to your arms. With all the hand waving you do, we could solve our energy problems for 30 years.
Thanks. That's sweet.
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You investigate/arrest people all the time based on PC, but PC doesn't always equal hard evidence that you can charge. Your making all sorts of hard assumptions on the boys side of things, but none on the side of the school or LE. I don't know why specifically they arrested/detained him and possibly never will.
What is hard evidence? You arrest people if you have a crime you can charge with the evidence at hand. You dont arrest people you cant charge.
Im not making "hard assumptions". Im merely taking the police at their word that they had "no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned" on the boy's part.
What point are you making? That it is possible that it was his intent notwithstanding a total lack of evidence? I agree, possible. But not grounds for being hauled off to jail, finger printed, and have your mug shot taken. Honestly, I dont even know how it is arguable.
Actually you do. You really believe every case the police work gets prosecuted? Every LE agency in the country works 100's if not 1000's of investigations that never see a courtroom or get charged. Somtimes a DA looks at them and decides their may be issues with how evidence was siezed, maybe they don't believe the evidence is strong enough, maybe they don't think its worth the battle in court, but I assure you, case are worked all the time that involve arrests and don't go to court.
Why this never went further then his detention/arrest is a matter that can only be answered by those directly invovled. Even then we may never know because we'd have to hope they give a candid answer, which also may never happen. Did the police detain/arrest because of policy, racism or PC? We don't know thier thought process, we can only attempt to go over media reports and come up with our best guess.
Again, we don't know why they arrested or detained. The only person who can answer this is the responding officers who may never give a candid response. They may have felt they had PC, maybe it was policy or racist. LE officers make judgement calls on experience all the time. Many times they believe they have PC and when they or another go over all the facts they may find out they had PC for the arrest, but nothing more. PC doesn't always equal charges.
But those kids never actually get charged. I think it's more of a scared straight thing than anything.
It worked.
I don't know if he gamed this system or not. I think it's entirely plausible given the family history and actions post-incident that it is true - they did game the system, but who knows, it's possible that wasn't the case. Without the release of the information we won't know (if we ever do).
but if he just took his scholarships and 15 minutes of fame and lived his life I'd find it more believable, but when he tweets very shortly after being released from jail "going to see my lawyer" while a huge smile, and the family near hysteria that #istandwithahmed is trending #1 on twitter, they seemed almost giddy, I lose some of my faith he's on the level and get suspicious.
something about the whole incident seems off to me.
The facts of the day are murky, but clearly the school and police were being bigots. CLEARLY! Forget the absurdity and obscurity of the entire ordeal including parties involved; a Muslim kid was detained and investigated for a bomb hoax at a school in America. The school and police are clearly bigots! End of story! Support and pay the kid!
THIS is what America has come to...
You guys aren't going to believe this because it sounds so sappy, but I guarantee you its 1000% true and dead accurate.... I was coming out of my break room with my lunch the other day, and a couple doors down a colleague of mine was having a very vocal argument with a kid he had pulled out of class for disruption. The school resource officer (police officer) was also walking by. We acknowledged each other, and the situation down the hall, with a nod, and he said "I don't know how you guys do it, you are some of the most patient people I know." I thought about it for a second and said "you and I are very much alike in that regard." He kind of laughed but not in a "it's funny" sort of way, and I went in my classroom to eat lunch.
The general public truly has no idea. It would be a real eye opener if they did.
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you're right that all you need to arrest is PC. But if you have "no evidence" of intent on an intent based crime, you have no PC. That's what I mean re you dont arrest when you cant charge. There are some circumstances where the police might make an arrest before being about to charge. But the window is really short anyway -- 72 hours I think.
Again, we don't know why they arrested or detained. The only person who can answer this is the responding officers who may never give a candid response. They may have felt they had PC, maybe it was policy or racist. LE officers make judgement calls on experience all the time. Many times they believe they have PC and when they or another go over all the facts they may find out they had PC for the arrest, but nothing more. PC doesn't always equal charges.
Of course we know why he was arrested. The police report said he was charged with building a hoax bomb.
As for the rest of this, we're going in circles. I agree the police may arrest thinking they have PC and then later conclude they do not. You wont acknowledge that the police said they have no evidence of the key element of the hoax weapon crime -- intent. NO EVIDENCE. How do you go from PC to no evidence--what changed? It's like arreting someone for murder and then saying that you have no evidence that the cause of death was homicide.
Drink.