Thank you Ernie..

but that scouting report was prophetic.

He drafted both Eli and Elway. He was a Unitas expert. He brought Kerry Collins back from the ashes.

You could say he was an expert QB evaluator.

Too bad some of his skills didn't rub off onto the current GM!

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Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12643348 Fishmanjim57 said:

Quote:

Too bad some of his skills didn't rub off onto the current GM!

Mr. Toupee rattled off about 5 straight drafts that were utter, total dogshit from 1998-2002.

"you know"

Ernie wasn't going to let him get away.

have been apart.

Pretending Ernie was GOATly is just as foolish as those who still tear him down as being WOATly are.

Lawrence Taylor ... he was there (thank God the Saints didn't need another LB at that point).

Now, Eli is a different case from the other 2. He had to be dealt for .....

I know it is going to seem sacrilegious to some but, Eli is the best pick/maneuver in the last 50 years.

I know there will be some folks who say Eli forced San Diego's hand .... but, I don't care about that.

Thank-you Ernie.

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I think the need (and that’s what it is) is so strong to crucify JR that the revisionists are going to canonize a very ordinary GM.
How’s this for a draft…in 1998 he goes for Shaun Williams, Joe Jervivicus, brian Alford, Toby Meyers, Todd Pollack and Ben Frische…]
His first round picks include Cedric Jones, Ron Dwayne, William Joseph, William Allen and Tyronne Wheatley.
His second round picks include: Will Pedersen, Sinorce Moss, Joe Montgomery and Tim Cartier
He invests another no. 1 in the supplementary draft in David Brown.
He opposes the hire of TC and in his book talks about his “over preparedness” and mocks the man.
He gave up more than he had to in the Eli deal and if you think Rivers and a host of draft picks for Eli was a great deal…I don’t, as much as I like Eli. And I wonder if Rivers in our organization might have done as well.
How anybody can look at his draft record and see more than ordinary is beyond me…Unless you have an agenda.

his left testicle and his right testicle."

In comment 12643410 grizz299 said:

Quote:

I think the need (and that’s what it is) is so strong to crucify JR that the revisionists are going to canonize a very ordinary GM. How’s this for a draft…in 1998 he goes for Shaun Williams, Joe Jervivicus, brian Alford, Toby Meyers, Todd Pollack and Ben Frische…] His first round picks include Cedric Jones, Ron Dwayne, William Joseph, William Allen and Tyronne Wheatley. His second round picks include: Will Pedersen, Sinorce Moss, Joe Montgomery and Tim Cartier He invests another no. 1 in the supplementary draft in David Brown. He opposes the hire of TC and in his book talks about his “over preparedness” and mocks the man. He gave up more than he had to in the Eli deal and if you think Rivers and a host of draft picks for Eli was a great deal…I don’t, as much as I like Eli. And I wonder if Rivers in our organization might have done as well. How anybody can look at his draft record and see more than ordinary is beyond me…Unless you have an agenda.

Who was the GM in 1992 and 1996?

...he was the principal architect of that roster. The Rug Lives!!!

and if there was a drinking game for his random Bert Jones referenes, we'd all be in AA.

Ernie was lucky that a bunch of factors swayed in his direction that got him in position to land Eli, and it was some karma payback for the Elway mess in Baltimore in 1983.

Remember, the Giants are never in position to get him if:
- they don't crash and burn from 4-4 in 2003 and finish 4-12.
- A group of bad teams win late to let the Giants leapfrog them in the draft (Arizona's last second win vs. Vikings) and put them at #4
- If Marty Shottenheimer doesn't see what a mess the Chargers organization is and offers his feedback to Archie
- Thanks to Archie and Peyton's influence, allowing Eli to pull a power play and refuse to go to San Diego
- Tom Condon's working relationship with the Giants over the years to that allowed for in roads that pointed to a trade. I still don't believe Ernie when he says he wildly picked Rivers hoping that AJ Smith would pull the trigger. I know the NFL has no rules like the NBA on draft day trades like this, but you don't burn the #4 pick in the draft on a whim. Ernie had information that this is what the Chargers wanted and would do the deal.
- And even on BBI, we had the first (and I think only real) appearance of Gloveone, who gave us some real blow by blow predictions of what was going down with Eli. Even to the point where he said he wouldn't wear the Chargers hat and wouldn't smile for the photo op which was meant to embarrass him. I mean does this look like a guy beaming to be taken #1 overall?



The whole Manning family had these forced semi non-frowns. There was work going on behind the scenes that were going to ensure Eli was not going to the Chargers. The Mannings were drawn to the stability of the Giants franchise and thought that it would be perfect for Eli, particularly with an established coach like Coughlin coming back.

So how did Eli look after the Giants trade. Quite a bit happier, and a hat on his head



The point of this is that yes, Ernie made the move, and it was a bold one, but like anything, he had help getting there.

In comment 12643348 Fishmanjim57 said:

Quote:

Too bad some of his skills didn't rub off onto the current GM!

Dont you just love revisionist history..

Good post. After all these years I never really understood why Achie and Eli were so opposed to him going to San Diego. San Diego certainly isn't a bad place to live.

In comment 12643420 Sarcastic Sam said:

Quote:

In comment 12643410 grizz299 said: Quote: I think the need (and that’s what it is) is so strong to crucify JR that the revisionists are going to canonize a very ordinary GM. How’s this for a draft…in 1998 he goes for Shaun Williams, Joe Jervivicus, brian Alford, Toby Meyers, Todd Pollack and Ben Frische…] His first round picks include Cedric Jones, Ron Dwayne, William Joseph, William Allen and Tyronne Wheatley. His second round picks include: Will Pedersen, Sinorce Moss, Joe Montgomery and Tim Cartier He invests another no. 1 in the supplementary draft in David Brown. He opposes the hire of TC and in his book talks about his “over preparedness” and mocks the man. He gave up more than he had to in the Eli deal and if you think Rivers and a host of draft picks for Eli was a great deal…I don’t, as much as I like Eli. And I wonder if Rivers in our organization might have done as well. How anybody can look at his draft record and see more than ordinary is beyond me…Unless you have an agenda. Who was the GM in 1992 and 1996?

I wonder if Reese pays him by the word?

In comment 12643444 Tittle 9 20 64 said:

Quote:

Good post. After all these years I never really understood why Achie and Eli were so opposed to him going to San Diego. San Diego certainly isn't a bad place to live.

What is currently going on in San Diego is a primary reason why Archie didn't want Eli to go there. The ownership has been threatening to leave for years and looks to finally make good on it now. The way Shottenhiemer was treated and the "professionalism" of AJ Smith, who everyone around the NFL recognized as one of the biggest assholes in the sport. That all speaks to instability in the organization which would have an impact on Eli during his formative years and then into his prime. Archie saw his promising career go down the tubes because he essentially was the New Orleans Saints and did most things pretty much on his own and got beat up. More than one NFL executive said the difference between Roger Staubach and Archie Manning was Roger went to Dallas. Archie didn't want to see Eli go through the same thing.

Also, I think there has always been a goal in the Manning family to keep Peyton in the AFC and Eli in the NFC. When Peyton was a free agent after he was let go by the Colts, he had a few teams after him (like the 49ers), but he went to Denver. I don't think they wanted them to directly compete unless it was the every 4 year head to head or the Super Bowl.

People keep saying, after all these years, that the Giants overpayed for Eli. I think its the opposite. The Giants stole Eli from SD; they got a bargain. That was true then and even more true today.

Is it because you can't. So just slap out a short sentence that's pejorative...

How the hell, do you who is so critical of JR, justify Cedric Jones, Williams, The Wisconsin Marmellow, Will Allen, Wheatley, Dave Brown, William Joseph With a no.1 pick. im leaving 0ff kiwi too, though i think it was a bad pick.

How do you justify..Tim Carter, Sinorce Jones, will Pedersen Joe Montgomery and Joe Jerivicus with a no. 2.

You can't answer that, but you won't change your opinion, that you can't even rationally defend. I think that most of JR and TC's detractors are unhappy people, using hingsignt to get attention and/or vent their frustrations and find empowerment.
It's part of why the sport is popular.
I think these are (for the most part, because I think some are fairly motivated and can make a case) the same people who need to desparage everyhting around them from the country on down the line.
But you can't defend your position and just spit out a line.
Accorsi, popular revisionist opinion aside, did not draft very well. And it's not like he made picks that only look bad in hindsight, they looked bad in real time.

...might be that Accorsi gives a crap what the press or anyone else says/writes about him. Well, that and the two Super Bowls that each of the other two guys won.

Accorsi was GM from 1998 to 2007. Although his track record is mostly pedestrian, he had one spectacular year, from April 2004 to April 2005, that transformed his legacy. It's possible to appreciate the moves he made in that period without exaggerating his overall performance.

Even with all the facts right there in front of them...it makes me wonder.

In comment 12643474 grizz299 said:

Quote:

Is it because you can't. So just slap out a short sentence that's pejorative... How the hell, do you who is so critical of JR, justify Cedric Jones, Williams, The Wisconsin Marmellow, Will Allen, Wheatley, Dave Brown, William Joseph With a no.1 pick. im leaving 0ff kiwi too, though i think it was a bad pick. How do you justify..Tim Carter, Sinorce Jones, will Pedersen Joe Montgomery and Joe Jerivicus with a no. 2. You can't answer that, but you won't change your opinion, that you can't even rationally defend. I think that most of JR and TC's detractors are unhappy people, using hingsignt to get attention and/or vent their frustrations and find empowerment. It's part of why the sport is popular. I think these are (for the most part, because I think some are fairly motivated and can make a case) the same people who need to desparage everyhting around them from the country on down the line. But you can't defend your position and just spit out a line. Accorsi, popular revisionist opinion aside, did not draft very well. And it's not like he made picks that only look bad in hindsight, they looked bad in real time.

Ernie Accorsi was not the general manager when Cedric Jones was drafted.

And it's nonsense to say that the Giants paid too high of a price for Eli. Look at what the Washington R*dsk*ns gave up for RG3. Look at what San Diego gave up to get Ryan Leaf. Hell, the BIlls that same draft gave up a 1st, a 2nd and a 5th for JP friggin Losman.

In comment 12643427 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

and if there was a drinking game for his random Bert Jones referenes, we'd all be in AA. Ernie was lucky that a bunch of factors swayed in his direction that got him in position to land Eli, and it was some karma payback for the Elway mess in Baltimore in 1983. Remember, the Giants are never in position to get him if: - they don't crash and burn from 4-4 in 2003 and finish 4-12. - A group of bad teams win late to let the Giants leapfrog them in the draft (Arizona's last second win vs. Vikings) and put them at #4 - If Marty Shottenheimer doesn't see what a mess the Chargers organization is and offers his feedback to Archie - Thanks to Archie and Peyton's influence, allowing Eli to pull a power play and refuse to go to San Diego - Tom Condon's working relationship with the Giants over the years to that allowed for in roads that pointed to a trade. I still don't believe Ernie when he says he wildly picked Rivers hoping that AJ Smith would pull the trigger. I know the NFL has no rules like the NBA on draft day trades like this, but you don't burn the #4 pick in the draft on a whim. Ernie had information that this is what the Chargers wanted and would do the deal. - And even on BBI, we had the first (and I think only real) appearance of Gloveone, who gave us some real blow by blow predictions of what was going down with Eli. Even to the point where he said he wouldn't wear the Chargers hat and wouldn't smile for the photo op which was meant to embarrass him. I mean does this look like a guy beaming to be taken #1 overall? The whole Manning family had these forced semi non-frowns. There was work going on behind the scenes that were going to ensure Eli was not going to the Chargers. The Mannings were drawn to the stability of the Giants franchise and thought that it would be perfect for Eli, particularly with an established coach like Coughlin coming back. So how did Eli look after the Giants trade. Quite a bit happier, and a hat on his head The point of this is that yes, Ernie made the move, and it was a bold one, but like anything, he had help getting there.

This was a really enjoyable post. Only thing - Arizona picked ahead of us - did you mean their win allowed the Chargers to pick #1?

to defend Reese.

So you can line up some bad picks during EA's tenure? Welcome to the reality of being an NFL GM. I'd argue that when you look at Ernie's overall body of work including free agency, he made some tremendous moves with huge ROI.

Look at free agency. Kerry Collins, Barrow, the rebuilt o-line Parker, Brown, etc. Every one of those moves lead to a Super Bowl appearance. Yes, I know we lost but that's not "nothing". How about the free agency class of 2005 which is one of the best hauls I can think of for any team in recent memory, Plax, Kareem and Pierce.

He has also drafted how many ring of honor/pro bowl players in Osi, Tuck, Webster, Jacobs, Snee, Diehl, Tyree, etc. How about uncovering Richie S. as an undrafted FA? Kiwi was a great pick that unfortunately I will always believe was wasted by TC's staff shuffling him to and from LB.

As Matt points out, alot had to come together for us to get Eli. But give Ernie huge points for ONE thing....sticking to his guns. It's right there in his scouting report saying if we have a shot at this guy we NEED to trade up. He could have sat there and taken Ben who was a huge prospect, and not answered any of the questions about trading up. He was also able to hang on to Osi in the negotations. Ben is a great player in his own right but with what we know about his personality and the fact that very good if not great Steeler defense carried him to his first title, are we sure that if Ben came to NY we are sitting here with 2 more titles? I'm not.

Ernie wanted Elway and it didnt work out. This is a guy who knows a great QB when he sees one. Lets all be thankful he got his man in Eli.

stuff. Thanks. I was against the trade when it happened. I thought we gave up too much. I was wrong.

Throws the ball, takes the hit, gets right back up... Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic...

Think NFCCG @ Green Bay against Favre in subzero temps and @ SF in a swamp getting pounded by the best defense in the league.

Then twice staring down BB and Brady on the biggest stage, both come from behind, once while they're sitting there undefeated.

In comment 12643505 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

This was a really enjoyable post. Only thing - Arizona picked ahead of us - did you mean their win allowed the Chargers to pick #1?

Yes, I should have been more clear. Arizona was in line to have the #1 pick at 3-13 and they didn't have a QB on their roster either. So when they got that last second TD to beat the Vikings, that dropped them back to 4-12, in a 4 way tie for worst record in the league. That put the Chargers in at #1 and was the best chance for the Giants to execute a trade. When you look at the other team in the middle of this (Raiders), I highly doubt Al Davis would have allowed himself to be strong armed.

And it's nonsense to say that the Giants paid too high of a price for Eli. Look at what the Washington R*dsk*ns gave up for RG3. Look at what San Diego gave up to get Ryan Leaf. Hell, the BIlls that same draft gave up a 1st, a 2nd and a 5th for JP friggin Losman.

You may be right,,,,but we gave up Rivers in the deal, plus high picks. My feeling was Ernie had them over the barrel and was too much the gentleman to take advanatage of them.
And to bring up Ryan Leaf and RGIII that looks like busts is a poor way i think of making your case.

Eli significantly and permanently elevated the standing of the Giants' franchise. I'd guess that the "Giants' job" is up there with the "Steelers' job" or the "Packers' job" in terms of prestige in NFL circles.

One interesting factor here is that even if the trade for Eli hadn't worked out, Roethlisberger (Ernie liked Ben and Matt Schaub more than Rivers) would have ended up being a pretty decent consolation prize, at least in terms of on-field ability and results.

I don't want to make Ernie out to be some infallible GM who never made mistakes but when a once-in-a-generation opportunity presented itself, he brought it home.

to build on. He was largely a dogshit GM in the draft minus Eli and a couple key hits on the lines.

The rest was filled by Reese. Post Super Bowls, as the OL and DL deteriorated, Reese didn't do a great job replacing and our team has suffered. We've partially climbed out of the abyss on our offensive front, but we have a ways to go on both sides of the ball.

minus hitting on a franchise QB that brought us 2 Super Bowl titles he was "dogshit".

Are you serious?

"I still don't believe Ernie when he says he wildly picked Rivers hoping that AJ Smith would pull the trigger. I know the NFL has no rules like the NBA on draft day trades like this, but you don't burn the #4 pick in the draft on a whim. Ernie had information that this is what the Chargers wanted and would do the deal."

So why wouldn't AJ simply draft Rivers there, because they knew EA lusted after him and he could get the picks + Rivers? That has in-built speculation the same way EA might have when he picks. Given the stakes and the fairly well recognized-at-the-time assessments that both were potential franchise QBs, why mess with chance that a deal doesn't fall as whispered?

LauderdaleMatty, LOL, my thoughts exactly.

For a guy who had no experience as a player or coach, he was a good talent evaluator and a good GM.

Reese brought in rookies and free agents who contributed to the 2007 run but it really was Ernie who built that team.

In comment 12643597 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 12643505 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: This was a really enjoyable post. Only thing - Arizona picked ahead of us - did you mean their win allowed the Chargers to pick #1? Yes, I should have been more clear. Arizona was in line to have the #1 pick at 3-13 and they didn't have a QB on their roster either. So when they got that last second TD to beat the Vikings, that dropped them back to 4-12, in a 4 way tie for worst record in the league. That put the Chargers in at #1 and was the best chance for the Giants to execute a trade. When you look at the other team in the middle of this (Raiders), I highly doubt Al Davis would have allowed himself to be strong armed.

Thanks - I read it incorrectly.

I don't recall the Chargers being criticized the way the Browns/Raiders are today, which made the move to ask not to go there even more surprising. Eli looked silly until 2007 given the talent that team had.

In comment 12643761 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

Only thing - Arizona picked ahead of us - did you mean their win allowed the Chargers to pick #1? [Matt:] Yes, I should have been more clear. Arizona was in line to have the #1 pick at 3-13 and they didn't have a QB on their roster either. So when they got that last second TD to beat the Vikings, that dropped them back to 4-12, in a 4 way tie for worst record in the league. That put the Chargers in at #1 and was the best chance for the Giants to execute a trade. When you look at the other team in the middle of this (Raiders), I highly doubt Al Davis would have allowed himself to be strong armed.

Here are the first 21 picks from that draft, quite an amazing haul. Oh! And look who the Patriots grabbed at #21:

1 San Diego Chargers Eli Manning QB Mississippi
2 Oakland Raiders Robert Gallery T Iowa
3 Arizona Cardinals Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
4 New York Giants Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State
5 Washington Redskins Sean Taylor FS Miami (Fla.)
6 Cleveland Browns Kellen Winslow TE Miami (Fla.)
7 Detroit Lions Roy Williams WR Texas
8 Atlanta Falcons DeAngelo Hall CB Virginia Tech
9 Jacksonville Jaguars Reggie Williams WR Washington
10 Houston Texans Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
11 Pittsburgh Steelers Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio)
12 New York Jets Jonathan Vilma MLB Miami (Fla.)
13 Buffalo Bills Lee Evans WR Wisconsin
14 Chicago Bears Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma
15 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Michael Clayton WR Louisiana State
16 Philadelphia Eagles Shawn Andrews T Arkansas
17 Denver Broncos D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
18 New Orleans Saints Will Smith DE Ohio State
19 Miami Dolphins Vernon Carey T Miami (Fla.)
20 Minnesota Vikings Kenechi Udeze DE USC
21 New England Patriots Vince Wilfork

Got the most important decision in his NY Giants career right when he traded for Eli. Stole AP from the skins while they were trying to decide how good he was. Signed the best WR I'd seen in a Giant uniform to that point in Plaxico.

Overall a fine NFL executive and a bit underrated imo.

In comment 12643477 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

...might be that Accorsi gives a crap what the press or anyone else says/writes about him. Well, that and the two Super Bowls that each of the other two guys won. Accorsi was GM from 1998 to 2007. Although his track record is mostly pedestrian, he had one spectacular year, from April 2004 to April 2005, that transformed his legacy. It's possible to appreciate the moves he made in that period without exaggerating his overall performance.

BBB nails it again. Ernie was not very good at draft picks but his conviction about Eli was 100% correct. How anyone can say the Giants gave up too much when they earned 2 Super Bowl Championships with Eli is just plain stupid.

Reese has his ups and downs. At least Reese seems to have learned from his mistakes and has changed his draft strategy. For the Reese haters: Name another GM you think is better then compare the 2 over a few years. Oh, wait. You can't do that!

about right now without Ernie's move to get Eli.

ponder on that....

It was a reaction to the naysayers who are lauding him partially as a means of degrading JR.
If Jr had first round picks like Ernie they'd be pilloring him...

In comment 12643568 Chris684 said:

Quote:

Throws the ball, takes the hit, gets right back up... Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic... Think NFCCG @ Green Bay against Favre in subzero temps and @ SF in a swamp getting pounded by the best defense in the league. Then twice staring down BB and Brady on the biggest stage, both come from behind, once while they're sitting there undefeated.

I think the NFCCG in San Fran where he just got pounded time after time and just got back up and shoved it down their throats is the one that really shows it. Tough as fucking nails in that game.

In comment 12643990 guineaT said:

Quote:

Got the most important decision in his NY Giants career right when he traded for Eli. Stole AP from the skins while they were trying to decide how good he was. Signed the best WR I'd seen in a Giant uniform to that point in Plaxico. Overall a fine NFL executive and a bit underrated imo.

That year where he brought us Pierce, Plaxico, and Kareem really set the table for the future super bowl runs.

had enough sense to surround himself with people who were good at their jobs and whose opinions he could trust.

Reese has not. There's the difference.