NFT: Knicks chat: Are the Knicks in trouble?

They just had an off night.

need to cut down the rotation and possibly switch Galloway and Afflalo.

The bench should be Grant, Afflalo, Williams, O'Quinn. That's it.

has really upped the expectation level but this is still a team that needs more talent.

As the season goes on I expect them to fade a bit. can KP play at this level for 82 games? I doubt it.

Team is headed in the right direction. Let's hope they make it to April in the mix and then they continue to build in the offseason.

going to be a powerhouse. It's a borderline playoff team in an improved eastern conference. This is consistent with optimistic preseason projections from most on BBI and the team has done nothing but live up to that to start the season.

Having an off night on a road trip against playoff teams is something that just happens.

The patterns with the second team have been emerging for a couple of weeks. I guess I expected more out of them.

don't overreact to the first 15.

With our current situation at the PG and the 5 spot we are a contender for the 7th or 8th seed in the East. An improvement from 17-65 put still have a long way to go to be considered a threat to win the conference.

in the NBA to start the season...8-7 is better than anyone can ask for...

they were playing their 3rd road game in 4 nights...

Having said that the bench will continue to be a mess until Fisher shortens the rotation and starts giving consistent minutes to players but he probably will not do that...

He cant come to grips with the fact that Vujacic, Thomas and Amundson should not be getting minutes...

Thomas and Amundson will continue to get minutes because they playd hard for him last year and Vujacic is an ex teammate...

Fisher can not figure out his rotation, it changes game to game, half to half...he just can not figure it out and the bench players are going to start to get frustrated, you can not keep giving guys 5 minutes here 5 minutes there...

Thomas and Galloway are the only 2 with consistent minutes and that is ridiculous...

Fisher has this in his head that he needs to play everyone so they feel part of the win, it is stupid and the Knicks are going to suffer for it....

In comment 12643591 Carl in CT said:

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With our current situation at the PG and the 5 spot we are a contender for the 7th or 8th seed in the East. An improvement from 17-65 put still have a long way to go to be considered a threat to win the conference.

I dont think anyone has ever said they were going to be a contender for the conference even after a good start...

Good thing the Knicks have max cap spce this off season again...

happens in basketball. No need to overreact.

they were due for an off night. The bench is an issue, but as others have said if Fisher can just settle on a damn rotation maybe these guys could get into a better rhythm.

The biggest issue is if KP can play near this level over a full season. If he can this team can def compete, if not we will be lucky to battle it out for the 8th spot.

Did you feel this was a playoff team before the season started?

I don't think they're in trouble - they're right where they should be. A team with a lot of new faces learning how to gel, a coach learning how to use his rotation, a rookie with a very high ceiling learning to acclimate to the NBA, etc. and they're still above .500

anything after that is gravy...if they can show they are improved to the point of making the playoffs and KP continues to show what he can do...

With Melo and KP and the supporting cast they will be able to recruit a max guy...

Now if they faulter and do not make the playoffs and KP slows down i dont think they can recruit that guy....

and are still above 500, they are 5-3 on the road against some tough opponents...

against good defensive teams because our guards can't break down defenses. Perhaps Grant emerges and fills that role later in the year, or Phil swings a trade to upgrade the backcourt. If not, we're gonna have to grind out a lot of wins, just like we've been doing thus far.

Overall I'm thrilled with where we are though. Anything close to 40 wins this year is a solid campaign. All I wanted to see this year were signs that KP was going to be good someday. Well, he's good already and will only get better.

In comment 12643614 bceagle05 said:

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against good defensive teams because our guards can't break down defenses. Perhaps Grant emerges and fills that role later in the year, or Phil swings a trade to upgrade the backcourt. If not, we're gonna have to grind out a lot of wins, just like we've been doing thus far. Overall I'm thrilled with where we are though. Anything close to 40 wins this year is a solid campaign. All I wanted to see this year were signs that KP was going to be good someday. Well, he's good already and will only get better.

This is just it - Miami is a strong defensive team, especially at home, and the Knicks aren't good enough yet to overcome that

I think if the Knicks are anywhere around .500 come January we are in very good shape

This team is middling, which is an upgrade over where I had us coming into the season (mid 30s). So being in trouble is really relative. I think the backups played too well to start. But I also think that the team shooting percentage is unsustainably low. We are shooting 41.5%. Last year's abomination shot 43%. Two years before we won 37 and 54 shooting 45%. Only the Sixers shot <42% last year, and in 2013-14 the worst mark was CHI at 43.2%

Put us at 45% this year and we've made 45 more buckets. Even if they're all 2s, it's 90 more points in 15 games = 6 more points. So instead of being net -.1 point, we'd be net +5.9 points. Maybe we should really be somewhere in between. In any event, our unsustainably (IMO) poor shooting is making us look worse than we really are. Though our unsustainably good 42.2% opp FGA is making us look better than we really are. However, I think our rebounding and TO edges are sustainable, so as long as we can stay on parity in eFG% we should be good.

In comment 12643612 nygiants16 said:

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and are still above 500, they are 5-3 on the road against some tough opponents...

Yeah, that's huge. Miami is the 2nd best team in the East.

tells me that statistically KAT really hasnt been materially better that KP per possession. Timberwolves play faster and KAT plays a few more MPG. The stats are actually scary close. KAT is a more efficient scorer, but otherwise, pretty damn similar.


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is the thing we thought he could come right in and do is shoot and that is the aspect of his game that has bene inconsistent...

Now i do not think his shot was as good as we thought but i still expect it to improve to the point where it is consistent...

And I'm assuming KAT plays like a more traditional big man and takes many more shots closer to the basket which would make is FG% higher but not the same overall variety of a threat as KP will become.

his worst game of the year, wonder how badly that hurt his stats.

I think towns and KP have both been amazing. Hopefully they can keep it up. I feel like its been awhile since we have had a couple top 5 picks put up awesome seasons. Its usually one guy due to busts/injuries.

I'm pretty happy. I hate the idea of playing Amundson and Vujacic, though. They should hang out on the bench unless the game is out of hand.

Also, Fisher made it a point to say he wanted to get out and run a little bit this year. The guys on the second unit in theory should be able to do that - Grant and Galloway, and Williams has shown he's pretty good in transition. And yet, the team is last in the NBA on fast breaks at 8.1 per game. Last year's team averaged 8.4 per game.

"It’s important not to have guys have a down vibe by sitting and watching too much. You got to get some action."

In comment 12643694 Canton said:

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"It’s important not to have guys have a down vibe by sitting and watching too much. You got to get some action."

continuing, "And Cleanthony Early can go to hell".

In comment 12643694 Canton said:

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"It’s important not to have guys have a down vibe by sitting and watching too much. You got to get some action."

Which has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard a coach say....

This is not the cub scout, this is not some rec league where everyone has to get minutes, time to be a big boy Fisher and set your rotation...

In comment 12643684 Canton said:

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Quote: WFAN’s Mike Francesa told Porzingis he would prefer to call him “Special K,’’ but the 7-foot-3 Latvian didn’t bite. Knicks team president Phil Jackson bestowed “KP’’ on Porzingis the day after the draft. “KP6” originated when MSG Network sideline reporter Rebecca Haarlow and Knicks-telecast producer Spencer Julien sat down with Porzingis for a piece during training camp and they came up with a play on Chris Paul’s CP3. When Porzingis said he likes Jackson’s “KP,’’ Haarlow replied: “What if it’s like KP6 instead of CP3?’’ Porzingis answered: “I need to still prove myself in the league before they start to call me like that, but yeah that’d be nice in the future. KP6 sounds good.’’ Haarlow has called Porzingis KP6 on the air and Porzingis confirmed he’s now all for it.

I wish the name Kavorka would stick.

now?

In comment 12643706 Deej said:

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In comment 12643694 Canton said: Quote: "It’s important not to have guys have a down vibe by sitting and watching too much. You got to get some action." continuing, "And Cleanthony Early can go to hell".

Exactly. And of all the guys who should probably sit on the bench the majority of the time, why choose the younger one to not dress? Rather than the guy who hasn't been in the league in 5 years, or the one who has played on 12 different teams since 2007 or whatever.

In comment 12643730 SethFromAstoria said:

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now?

Hah was too lazy to find who said it in the first place. But that's why I said stick instead of suggesting it as my own idea. Someone needs to photoshop one of those hats on him.

In comment 12643664 steve in ky said:

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And I'm assuming KAT plays like a more traditional big man and takes many more shots closer to the basket which would make is FG% higher but not the same overall variety of a threat as KP will become.

He's not a guy like KP, but he's also no Shaq. KAT is a new breed shooting center. And the most efficient shot tends to be the 3, and KP takes a lot of those.

KP shoots .537 at 0-3 feet, .382 at 3-10, .357 at 10-16, .500 at 16-3 pt line, and .341 from down town. Towns at the same distances is .667-.458-.375-.500-.167. So he's more efficient at everything sub-16 feet.

Interesting that KP is so good from 10-16 feet, in 28 attempts. Suggests that maybe he should be doing more jump shooting and less of the fancy moves. Though in any event I think his development is more important than this years' stats.

most efficient shot is the dunk. Moreover, I believe that shooting 0-3 feet is usually the most efficient shot (hard to get down there though). But after that, 3s are really efficient -- much more so than the midrange game for most players.

In comment 12643738 Deej said:

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In comment 12643664 steve in ky said: Quote: And I'm assuming KAT plays like a more traditional big man and takes many more shots closer to the basket which would make is FG% higher but not the same overall variety of a threat as KP will become. He's not a guy like KP, but he's also no Shaq. KAT is a new breed shooting center. And the most efficient shot tends to be the 3, and KP takes a lot of those. KP shoots .537 at 0-3 feet, .382 at 3-10, .357 at 10-16, .500 at 16-3 pt line, and .341 from down town. Towns at the same distances is .667-.458-.375-.500-.167. So he's more efficient at everything sub-16 feet. Interesting that KP is so good from 10-16 feet, in 28 attempts. Suggests that maybe he should be doing more jump shooting and less of the fancy moves. Though in any event I think his development is more important than this years' stats.

It seems like he regularly grabs an offensive board and goes right back up a couple of times, and misses a few of those a game. That probably factors in somewhat.

As for the lower % from 0 to 16 feet, I'd guess that the players guarding him are more comfortable on defense at that range. If anything, I'd say that's where he needs to focus his improvement efforts going forward to make him a more complete offensive player.

In comment 12643757 Aspano! said:

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If anything, I'd say that's where he needs to focus his improvement efforts going forward to make him a more complete offensive player.

That was kind of my closing point -- if he has an inside/outside game he gets deadly. I suspect he's so good at 16-3p shooting because he's so hard to close out on -- especially by more traditional 4s.

His length is really ridiculous. He is just hovering in rebound over guys heads. They're boxing him out now because of the putback highlights from early, but in doing so they're letting him just go over the top. Because he's Gumby, damnit!

IMO right now too often when he is real close he still kind of try's a fade away instead of going up as strong as he probably could. It will come.

Miami showed how the Knicks offense can be controlled. Learn how they did that and figure out how to deal with it.

It was the 3rd road game in 4 nights and against a team that will end the season as one of the 2 or 3 best in the East.

As for the bench, it seems as though Fisher is starting to slowly settle in on a rotation that he likes. It may not be the guys that we want it to be, but it looks like the rotation is shaping up to be Lopez, Porzingis, Melo, Afflalo, Calderon, Seraphin, Thomas, Galloway, Grant. Seems like the 10th spot is still up for grabs with O'Quinn, Amundson, and Williams duking it out for that spot. If it were up to me Seraphin and Amundson would be out of the rotation in favor of O'Quinn and Thomas/Williams would platoon depending on whether we need scoring punch or defense.

One trend that I do like that I am seeing is an increase in minutes for KP. Over the last 4 games he has averaged 32.5 minutes per night, and he was over 35 the last 2 games. Another encouraging trend with Porzingis is that his shot is starting to fall and his getting to closer to what I think we expected coming into the season. Over the last 5 games he's shooting 46% from the field and 56% from 3. He will definitely cool off from downtown, but I don't think its unreasonable to expect him to hang around the high 30s all year.

Ideally you would get more than 26 minutes per night out of Lopez, but that has been about where he has been his whole career so that may not really change. I do like the idea that was floated about bringing Afflalo off the bench in favor of Galloway. It is becoming obvious that KP, Melo, and Afflalo or the "go to" scorers, and it would greatly benefit the second unit to have one of those 3 on the court with them at all times.

whether he learned that lesson or not we'll see. He wanted to see how resilient his guys would be after being down. So he let a hodge podge group stay on the floor that wasn't playing well against the high ranking defense. He didn't call a timeout either. Later in the game they tried to recover but the deficit was too huge.

No need to be worried at this point they'll get it together.

...how can they be 'in trouble'. If they make the post season in any capacity this year it's a bonus.

In comment 12643710 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12643694 Canton said: Quote: "It’s important not to have guys have a down vibe by sitting and watching too much. You got to get some action." Which has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard a coach say.... This is not the cub scout, this is not some rec league where everyone has to get minutes, time to be a big boy Fisher and set your rotation...

I dont trust most of what coaches say in most sports. But I really dont trust what Fisher says. No idea what he's really thinking, but I dismiss everything he says as word salad.

and expectations were pretty low this year. I would say they have exceeded expectations thus far.

Melo did not play well during the first half and things went south quickly.

We will see what happens tonight, I say they look much better and the teams are within 5 at the end.

yeesh.. this isnt a win now team.. enjoy the first actual rebuilding process in 20 years..

They were way better than the first unit. They have to get back to playing pressure D and generating turnovers.

I would also consider taking Porzingas out earlier in the first quarter and then re-inserting him to play some minutes with the second unit so there is a scoring threat on the floor.

Part of the problem with going with the hot hand on the second unit is guys feel pressure to score right away to stay on the floor. That leads to their jacking shots. KOQ, Williams, Thomas and Seraphin all take many ill-advised shots.

In comment 12643974 Deej said:

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In comment 12643710 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12643694 Canton said: Quote: "It’s important not to have guys have a down vibe by sitting and watching too much. You got to get some action." Which has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard a coach say.... This is not the cub scout, this is not some rec league where everyone has to get minutes, time to be a big boy Fisher and set your rotation... I dont trust most of what coaches say in most sports. But I really dont trust what Fisher says. No idea what he's really thinking, but I dismiss everything he says as word salad.

The thing though, his rotation looks an awful lot like what he said in this quote, every game 12 guys play at minimum..he seems to give everyone a chance in the first half...it is dumb and it is going to ruin this team if he keeps doing it...

Not all 13 guys deserve minutes...

In comment 12643980 GiantsUA said:

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. Melo did not play well during the first half and things went south quickly.

Good point. This is not a team that can not afford to have Melo play a poor game or half. They might be able to get away with it agst a second division team but not agst better competition.

Whiteside has made Miami a lot more formidable. They are definitely top 4 in the East.

In comment 12643996 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12643974 Deej said: I dont trust most of what coaches say in most sports. But I really dont trust what Fisher says. No idea what he's really thinking, but I dismiss everything he says as word salad. The thing though, his rotation looks an awful lot like what he said in this quote, every game 12 guys play at minimum..he seems to give everyone a chance in the first half...it is dumb and it is going to ruin this team if he keeps doing it... Not all 13 guys deserve minutes...

Yes but is he playing everyone for the sake of not allowing a down vibe, or is it because he generally doesnt think anyone is that much better than anyone else? I have to believe that Fisher, with all his experience in the league, does not think that the only way to prevent a down vibe is to run a rotation that no one else runs. Taking him at his word, he's saying that he isnt even minimally competent at managing a normal team situation.

In comment 12644011 Deej said:

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In comment 12643996 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12643974 Deej said: I dont trust most of what coaches say in most sports. But I really dont trust what Fisher says. No idea what he's really thinking, but I dismiss everything he says as word salad. The thing though, his rotation looks an awful lot like what he said in this quote, every game 12 guys play at minimum..he seems to give everyone a chance in the first half...it is dumb and it is going to ruin this team if he keeps doing it... Not all 13 guys deserve minutes... Yes but is he playing everyone for the sake of not allowing a down vibe, or is it because he generally doesnt think anyone is that much better than anyone else? I have to believe that Fisher, with all his experience in the league, does not think that the only way to prevent a down vibe is to run a rotation that no one else runs. Taking him at his word, he's saying that he isnt even minimally competent at managing a normal team situation.

It is not the first time he has said this...

He said it after the first game he played Amundson...He said He wanted to give him a chance since he had not played all season to get into a game and be part of the game....

It makes sense...look at his rotations, he plays Vujacic for a 3 minute spurt...why? what other explanation is there?

is that nobody has distinguished himself after the first handful of games. If Grant, Williams and Seraphin were playing as well as Galloway, I think we would see very little of anyone else.

In comment 12644032 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12644011 Deej said: Quote: In comment 12643996 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12643974 Deej said: I dont trust most of what coaches say in most sports. But I really dont trust what Fisher says. No idea what he's really thinking, but I dismiss everything he says as word salad. The thing though, his rotation looks an awful lot like what he said in this quote, every game 12 guys play at minimum..he seems to give everyone a chance in the first half...it is dumb and it is going to ruin this team if he keeps doing it... Not all 13 guys deserve minutes... Yes but is he playing everyone for the sake of not allowing a down vibe, or is it because he generally doesnt think anyone is that much better than anyone else? I have to believe that Fisher, with all his experience in the league, does not think that the only way to prevent a down vibe is to run a rotation that no one else runs. Taking him at his word, he's saying that he isnt even minimally competent at managing a normal team situation. It is not the first time he has said this... He said it after the first game he played Amundson...He said He wanted to give him a chance since he had not played all season to get into a game and be part of the game.... It makes sense...look at his rotations, he plays Vujacic for a 3 minute spurt...why? what other explanation is there?

Slept with their wives/girlfriends and wants to avoid another Matt Barnes mishap?