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Brett Favre

Route 9 : 11/26/2015 9:28 pm
Kind of bored. What do you think of him overall? Does the whole retiring thing skew your views? Where do you rank him? Happy Thanksgiving.

I liked his playing style, tough fucking guy. He took the risks and haha, he did throw his last pass as a Packer to Corey Webster. Can’t hate the guy too much. Whatever, tonight's his nights.
Where's the playa's only thread?  
BrettNYG10 : 11/26/2015 9:31 pm : link
.
John Madden...  
BamaBlue : 11/26/2015 9:32 pm : link
had a long lasting bromance with Brett. He was a great QB that hung-on too long. I enjoyed watching him play, but thought he ran out of gas at the end of seasons. It caused him to be a pretty average QB in the playoffs...
He was my favorite non-Giant player for awhile.  
BrettNYG10 : 11/26/2015 9:32 pm : link
Great first name.
RE: Where's the playa's only thread?  
Route 9 : 11/26/2015 9:32 pm : link
In comment 12645861 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Tonight!
Favre was overated as a player  
Torrag : 11/26/2015 9:51 pm : link
He was a mistake prone, inherently flawed QB. His popularity trumped his performance because he was a regular guy fans can relate to. He had great games and moments but he wasn't a consistently great QB.

That said the night he took the field after his father passed he wore his heart on his sleeve for all the world to see and he delivered big time. For me that was his finest hour.
He's an all time great  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/26/2015 9:55 pm : link
A gun slinger who took too many risks but he was a great player. Tough as nails.
Upper echelon  
natefit : 11/26/2015 10:11 pm : link
but for me not one of the greats
.  
Danny Kanell : 11/26/2015 10:22 pm : link
That was pretty awesome with him and Bart Starr.
RE: .  
Britt in VA : 11/26/2015 10:24 pm : link
In comment 12645935 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
That was pretty awesome with him and Bart Starr.


Yes it was.
A great QB.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 11/26/2015 10:24 pm : link
Gambler, much like Eli. Both made great choices and horrible decisions.
Not one of the greats?  
Britt in VA : 11/26/2015 10:24 pm : link
Wow.
To see Bart Starr at  
rebel yell : 11/26/2015 10:25 pm : link
Lambeau for what is likely the last time was heartwarming. Very nice moment. I always liked Favre. Played like he loved the game.
RE: Not one of the greats?  
BrettNYG10 : 11/26/2015 10:27 pm : link
In comment 12645942 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Wow.


I assumed that was a joke.
If Brett Favre isn't one of the greats...  
Britt in VA : 11/26/2015 10:30 pm : link
I'd love to see the criteria for actually being great.
overrated as a player  
blueblood : 11/26/2015 10:33 pm : link
really ??
RE: Favre was overated as a player  
Britt in VA : 11/26/2015 10:34 pm : link
In comment 12645893 Torrag said:
Quote:
He was a mistake prone, inherently flawed QB. His popularity trumped his performance because he was a regular guy fans can relate to. He had great games and moments but he wasn't a consistently great QB.

That said the night he took the field after his father passed he wore his heart on his sleeve for all the world to see and he delivered big time. For me that was his finest hour.


Does 3 straight NFL MVP awards count as consistent?
He's one of those guys  
pjcas18 : 11/26/2015 10:38 pm : link
where people who focus solely on stats can't fully appreciate.

Yes, he was the epitome of a gunslinger, so in addition to his off-the-charts offensive stats he's the alltime leader in INT's and pick 6's, but that's because he had the balls to play in a vertical passing offense and make risky throws.

more often than not though, it paid off for him and his teams.

He's a 3 time NFL MVP. Favre, Unitas and Jim Brown. that's an exclusive club - they're the only three players to be 3 time MVP (in consecutive years to boot).

He's absolutely among the all-time great QB's.

His retirement/come back antics  
widmerseyebrow : 11/26/2015 10:39 pm : link
Damaged the perception of his actual playing ability. The guy was a hell of a QB.
pjcas  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/26/2015 10:39 pm : link
"more often than not" in the regular season. It cost him and his teams (including Vikings) dearly in the playoffs many times.
RE: pjcas  
pjcas18 : 11/26/2015 10:41 pm : link
In comment 12645962 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"more often than not" in the regular season. It cost him and his teams (including Vikings) dearly in the playoffs many times.


Probably, I do believe Favre is someone who would have been yanked from games if there was a concussion protocol back when he played. He's Eli tough and man I saw Favre stay in games where it looked like he had no clue where he even was.
Favre in his prime (about 10 years maybe longer)  
djm : 11/26/2015 10:43 pm : link
Was an absolute beast. Make no mistake.
Favre was putting up numbers that today's quarterbacks put up...  
Britt in VA : 11/26/2015 10:46 pm : link
10 years before the rules changed and turned that into commonplace.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/26/2015 10:46 pm : link
My reaction with Favre is kind of like with Peyton...my wife asked me if I thought Peyton was overrated. I said, "No way." But then I qualified that with, "I'm not sure he'd be the guy I'd pick to lead my team in the playoffs."

I kind of consider Favre like that too. Favre was amazing, but in a one-and-done playoff situation, he would have scared the heck out of me.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/26/2015 11:02 pm : link
Favre's passer rating and TD-INT ratio was approximately the same in both the regular season and playoffs (not that either are a definitive proxy of his play). Completion percentage was 1.2% lower.

Peyton's numbers, outside of completion percentage, meaningfully gap down. Peyton was one and done in 9/14 appearances. Favre was one and done in 3/12.

The Packers winning only two Super Bowls with Favre/Rodgers would be enormously disappointing if I were a Packers fan, if it were to happen. That's potentially a 30 year period of elite QB play.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/26/2015 11:03 pm : link
And to clarify, I didn't have a real point with the Peyton/Favre stats - Eric's post just had me thinking so I looked the numbers up.
Favre sucks harder than Cam Newton.  
Davisian : 11/26/2015 11:12 pm : link
.
He was a great thrower of the football  
B in ALB : 11/26/2015 11:54 pm : link
He could sling it. No doubt.

He won one Super Bowl.

Stats carry the day I guess.


I got to see him play in person with the Jets  
Go Terps : 11/27/2015 12:02 am : link
I've seen some strong armed QBs in person...Simms, Collins, Kaepernick, and Flacco come to mind off the top of my head...the only guy I ever saw that was in his league as a pure thrower was Jeff George. Watching Favre warm up (and again this was with the Jets way past his prime) was impressive. Minimal effort and the ball came out of his hands spinning like crazy. He must have enormous hands and hand strength to throw the ball the way he did. Just an incredibly impressive thrower of the ball...an all timer in that respect. Also obviously incredibly tough. Those two things alone were enough to forge a Hall of Fame NFL career.

And those are the only good things I have to say about him. He's as selfish a player as I've seen in any sport.
Trolling sideline reporters  
ktinsc : 11/27/2015 12:03 am : link
with dick pics really tarnished my viewnof him.

Embarrassed his wife in a very public way, certainly not the hero that Packer fans made him.

Did anyone else notice Mark Chmura there? I guess there's no shame in Packer nation.
RE: I got to see him play in person with the Jets  
Mike from SI : 11/27/2015 12:06 am : link
In comment 12646068 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I've seen some strong armed QBs in person...Simms, Collins, Kaepernick, and Flacco come to mind off the top of my head...the only guy I ever saw that was in his league as a pure thrower was Jeff George. Watching Favre warm up (and again this was with the Jets way past his prime) was impressive. Minimal effort and the ball came out of his hands spinning like crazy. He must have enormous hands and hand strength to throw the ball the way he did. Just an incredibly impressive thrower of the ball...an all timer in that respect. Also obviously incredibly tough. Those two things alone were enough to forge a Hall of Fame NFL career.

And those are the only good things I have to say about him. He's as selfish a player as I've seen in any sport.


Why do you consider him selfish?
Mike from SI  
Go Terps : 11/27/2015 12:15 am : link
Because the guy only ever cared about himself. He had the good fortune of playing for a great offensive coach in Mike Holmgren, and did no work to make himself a better player under his instruction. There are audio clips out there of Favre several years into his career saying that he didn't know the difference between a nickel and a dime defense.

He always played as though he had to be the hero, and over and over it cost his team enormously in the playoffs. He was doing stupid shit for years and the media, because it already had its Favre narrative, gave him a pass as someone that was having fun...and he bought into that persona 100%. He even mentioned playing to have fun in his speech a couple days ago.

Tell that to Chad Clifton, or Dorsey Levens, or Robert Brooks, or any of his other teammates that were breaking their asses to win only to have Favre throw it away because he was "just having fun out there".

Favre and the media sold this image of him as drawing plays in the mud, but it was all bullshit. He had his own locker room, he was a dick to Aaron Rodgers to the point that Rodgers hates his guts, and he obviously showed what kind of person he was with the messy way he left Green Bay.

IMO Favre is as bad a teammate as I can imagine having. A jerk that has cart blanche because everyone thinks he's great.

He was one of my favorite QBs. The guy was as tough as they come,  
glowrider : 11/27/2015 12:18 am : link
The prototypical gunslinger. His highs were exaggerated and his lows exacerbated. There are few marquee franchises in the NFL, and he was a champion and mvp. A hall of famer. Deserving of having his number retired.

---

Which is pretty much the same thing I'll say about Eli at his ceremony. Which isn't a surprise since Favre is who Eli reminds me of most.
Favre epitomizes the style over substance era  
Torrag : 11/27/2015 12:37 am : link
He's obviously a winning QB with a great arm. I'm not a fan of playing low percentage football. So much effort by so many people is riding on these games. I want a guy with a smidge of a conscience and smarts not one chucking it into a pile and hoping something good happens.

I get the everyman tough guy persona and I appreciate it to an extent. Doesn't change my opinion that he was a flawed player that had he 'worked at his craft' should have accomplished more in his career with the talent he had. He isn't a name I throw into the greatest QB's discussion.
One of the best ever  
KWALL2 : 11/27/2015 1:03 am : link
He had a great run in his 20s that matched anything anybody did before him. He was the best football player in the NFL for a while. The best QB by a wide margin in his prime.

The last year was ugly but he had an exceptional year at the age of 40 with MIN. Those fucking cheap shot MF in New Orleans took him out with late hits and cheap shots in the playoffs. They had a shot to win it all in MIN.

Great player. One of the best QBs I ever saw.
Great QB that was almost a bridge  
madgiantscow009 : 11/27/2015 1:11 am : link
into two eras. The league went from a QB trying to win games to a league where everyone dinks and dunks the ball.
Greatest QB of all time  
Jordy : 11/27/2015 12:28 pm : link
Maybe Rodgers could be 50% the Qb that Favre is
He was a really good QB. Fearless and a gunslinger which is also  
Jimmy Googs : 11/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
the reason for his issues in many big games. The Corey Webster pick is one of my favorites of course.

I just was never a fan of the retiring/unretiring schtick for the last few years...
RE: If Brett Favre isn't one of the greats...  
BillKo : 11/27/2015 1:29 pm : link
In comment 12645951 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I'd love to see the criteria for actually being great.


Exactly. Great QB, and great to watch because you never knew what he was going to do.
RE: One of the best ever  
BillKo : 11/27/2015 1:32 pm : link
In comment 12646096 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He had a great run in his 20s that matched anything anybody did before him. He was the best football player in the NFL for a while. The best QB by a wide margin in his prime.

The last year was ugly but he had an exceptional year at the age of 40 with MIN. Those fucking cheap shot MF in New Orleans took him out with late hits and cheap shots in the playoffs. They had a shot to win it all in MIN.

Great player. One of the best QBs I ever saw.


Indeed, MIN was the best team that year IMO, and should have won the game.

I recall AP fumbling in some key situations as well.
heh  
giantfan2000 : 11/27/2015 2:18 pm : link
"One of my favorite QBs of all time " - Corey Webster
Maybe it's revisionist history  
Patrick77 : 11/27/2015 3:50 pm : link
But I don't remember anyone really disliking Favre when he played. I doubt there is another QB or player like that again. He was a great player and was capable of anything - both amazing and crazy/stupid.

That said he looked like a homeless man in the booth the other night. No wonder Jen Sterger shut down all those dick picks.
amazing player  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/27/2015 4:45 pm : link
and those 3 consecutive MVPs in the mid90s should end any discussion about him being some sort of compiler who is only at the top of the record books because he played for so long.

But that being said, he was simply a choke artist compared to other big name QBs...

- 4th quarter or Overtime
- Trailing by 8pts or less (one possession)
- Since 1994 (when the stats were first tracked)

These are the Top 11 QBs who have the most TD passes since '94 during the situations that fit the above criteria...

Code:
***4th QTR/OT -- Trailing by One possesion***
Peyton --- 42 TD -- 34 INT -- +8
Eli ------ 38 TD -- 26 INT -- +12
Brees ---- 36 TD -- 24 INT -- +12
Brady ---- 34 TD -- 22 INT -- +12
Romo ----- 29 TD -- 16 INT -- +13

Bledsoe -- 28 TD -- 26 INT -- +2
Big Ben -- 28 TD -- 17 INT -- +11
FAVRE ---- 27 TD -- 47 INT -- -20!!!
Cutler --- 25 TD -- 18 INT -- +7
Palmer --- 23 TD -- 17 INT -- +6
Rivers --- 21 TD -- 23 INT -- -2


With his team trailing by one score in the 4th quarter, Brtt Favre tended to be awfully turnover-prone. These numbers simply back up what the eye test has told us.

Only Favre and Rivers (yes, I made it 11 instead of 10 to include him) have more INTs than TDs in this situation. But Rivers only has 2 more INTs than TDs whereas Favre has 20 more INTs than TDs!!!!

That's just pathetic.

Our boy Eli looks good in yet another 4th quarter stat. Tony Romo once again looks like he is better in the 4th quarter than his reputation suggests. Brady and Peyton both come out looking good, Brady a little bit more.

This stat includes his epic 3-year peak from '94-'96 when he won 3 consecutive MVPs, so this isn't just "end of career Favre" numbers we are looking at.

For whatever reason, Brett Favre stunk in classic "clutch" situations. It speaks to his lack of patience and overconfidence in his amazing arm. He thought he could make every throw at any time and it cost him plenty of games, some which decided seasons.

As a QB, he's somewhere between Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan were as pitchers.
Osi, the one additional column I'd like to see  
pjcas18 : 11/27/2015 4:52 pm : link
in the "4th quarter and behind" stats is # of opportunities.

Because it's kind of unfair to someone like Brady, who maybe because of being so dominant in Q1 - Q3 doesn't have the same number of chances when you include "down by 8 or less" in these stats.

the counting stats (like TD's and Int's definitely), but it also impacts the difference somewhat.

point is Brady is possibly even better than "the pack" if you consider his percent success in given opportunities.

(total assumption, not sure if true - which is why the number of chances is relevant)
Bump  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/28/2015 12:49 am : link
Dude choked a lot
Osi  
Go Terps : 11/28/2015 1:05 am : link
Great post above. Eye opening.

And as for his playoff appearance with Minnesota, he threw one of the worst interceptions in NFL history in New Orleans. Just a stupefying, horrifying throw...
But why do you even ponder passing? - ( New Window )
Problem is that people give too much weight  
eclipz928 : 11/28/2015 7:07 am : link
to his performance in his final years with the Vikings and Jets. Easy to forget that he was already 38 years old when he left the Packers (Peyton Manning just turned 39 this year).

If you take a snapshot of his career up to a more typical retiring age for a QB, maybe 36, it's not a even a question that he was one of the greats.
RE: Mike from SI  
trueblueinpw : 11/28/2015 10:40 am : link
In comment 12646078 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Because the guy only ever cared about himself. He had the good fortune of playing for a great offensive coach in Mike Holmgren, and did no work to make himself a better player under his instruction. There are audio clips out there of Favre several years into his career saying that he didn't know the difference between a nickel and a dime defense.

He always played as though he had to be the hero, and over and over it cost his team enormously in the playoffs. He was doing stupid shit for years and the media, because it already had its Favre narrative, gave him a pass as someone that was having fun...and he bought into that persona 100%. He even mentioned playing to have fun in his speech a couple days ago.

Tell that to Chad Clifton, or Dorsey Levens, or Robert Brooks, or any of his other teammates that were breaking their asses to win only to have Favre throw it away because he was "just having fun out there".

Favre and the media sold this image of him as drawing plays in the mud, but it was all bullshit. He had his own locker room, he was a dick to Aaron Rodgers to the point that Rodgers hates his guts, and he obviously showed what kind of person he was with the messy way he left Green Bay.

IMO Favre is as bad a teammate as I can imagine having. A jerk that has cart blanche because everyone thinks he's great.


Yikes, I never really considered Favre in that sort of light. Was he really that bad of a guy? I know that the media can really hide a lot of scumbaggery when the athlete is markable and winning - Michael Jordon has to be exhibit "A" here - but was Favre really that bad of a team mate?
He was an all time great  
Patrick77 : 11/28/2015 10:52 am : link
But he had serious flaws. I don't think people should discount his later years at all. In his later years his flaws became huge. Peyton is falling apart because he destroyed his neck and arm and no longer has it. It doesn't matter if he takes risks or plays it safe or calls the right play. His body is falling apart and he can't compensate anymore. Favre never fell apart, he just kept taking dumb risks as his athleticism waned a little. He could have finished out his career playing till he was 45 if he wanted to all he had to was cut down on turnovers.
His 2nd to last year  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2015 1:57 pm : link
Was one of his best. His team won 12 games and he had a 30+ Tds and a near 5 to 1 TD to int rate. That was at age 40.
One of the all time greats  
HomerJones45 : 11/28/2015 2:16 pm : link
A first ballot HOF, and one of the most feared opponents in the NFL when he played.

Some of you have a funny way of judging qb's.

And how about Bart Starr? They didn't think he would even live and there he was having made the trip from Alabama to attend. That is one tough SOB.
Favre got screwed in the Vikings - Saints  
SomeFan : 11/28/2015 5:57 pm : link
NFCC. There were many non-calls that should have been called against the scumbag Saints. One of the worst officiated playoff games ever and nobody talks about it. The Saints were handed a win in that game and played criminally dirty.
Caveating Brett Favre as a great QB  
SomeFan : 11/28/2015 6:21 pm : link
is like caveating Mickey Mantle as a great baseball player.
Favre..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/28/2015 6:33 pm : link
was clearly one oft he best QB's for a decent period of the game. He was a guy you didn't want to face either in Lambeau or when time was running out and the
Packers needed a score.

I can't judge him on the limited amount of struggles he had in later years when the earlier body of work was so strong.

He had a bit of the LeBron effect going where the Media made so much of his plays that you almost wanted to root against him because of the hyperbole.

Great QB whose play stood for itself and didn't need further hyping from the Media.
RE: He was an all time great  
David in LA : 11/28/2015 6:46 pm : link
In comment 12647200 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
But he had serious flaws. I don't think people should discount his later years at all. In his later years his flaws became huge. Peyton is falling apart because he destroyed his neck and arm and no longer has it. It doesn't matter if he takes risks or plays it safe or calls the right play. His body is falling apart and he can't compensate anymore. Favre never fell apart, he just kept taking dumb risks as his athleticism waned a little. He could have finished out his career playing till he was 45 if he wanted to all he had to was cut down on turnovers.


I have to disagree here. He was awesome his first year with the Vikings, but he should not have come back for a second season after those brutal injuries suffered from the NFC Championship game. He looked like a boxer that lost his chin.
We will never know if he could have come back  
Patrick77 : 11/28/2015 6:55 pm : link
And I do agree he looked lost in that game. He was also being cheap shotted in a way that will never be accepted again. But physically before that Favre never really fell apart IMO. He also never altered his style at all. Which could have extended his career further.

Even a Favre with a weaker arm and lesser mobility IMO should have been able to extend a career based purely on experience and understanding of the game.

There have been some awful QBs since Favre left. I always thought he would go out like testaverde or Bledsoe.
Edit  
Patrick77 : 11/28/2015 6:57 pm : link
Should have said - We never will know orange could have came back for another productive season.
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