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This team still lacks talent part 2

dep026 : 11/29/2015 7:57 pm
Lets recap something quick:

Beatty-pugh-richburg-schrwatz-flowers. OBJ-Cruz-Randle-Donnell. Manning, jennings

JPP-hankins-jenkins-ayers. Thomas-Beason-Kennard. DRC-Prince-Collins-Behre

Those were our projected 22 coming into the year. 9 of them didnt play in the game today. 15 of them have missed at least 1 game this year. When you trot out 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and sometimes 5th stringers, you are going to look bad for majority of games and make major mistakes. Coming into the year we had 3 bonafide stars: Eli, OBJ, and JPP. Hankins was on the rise. DRC/Prince were very formidable and guys like Pugh, Richburg, Flowers gave us hope on the OL.

For the majority of the game today, we had Flowers-Jerry-Reynolds-Hart-Newhouse on the OL. 4 of those guys would be inactive on most teams and we expected them to come out and perform? It's very unrealistic. We couldnt run, they barely pass protected. Thats what you are suppose to do against 4 backups. I dont care if Newhouse has played all year, he is a backup, journeyman, etc.

We still have our number 2 WR as one of the most infuriating players in franchise history. He was benched for 2 horrific routes. One that should have been a TD, the other would have been a TD if he ran the route correctly. Our other WRs (harris, white, Nicks) who are not game changers. Harris had the unfortunate role in the 2nd INT which wasnt his fault. Tye had some nice catches at the end of the game, however had a drop early on and is a really bad blocker. These are guys that we need to make plays, not hope to contribute. Randle, 1 catch. Nicks 1 catch. Harris 2 catches. They were facing 3rd, 4th, 5th string corner. Its totally unacceptable.

Its not worth getting into the defense, we know they lack talent with the abundance of injuries. We should address the defense as well in the offseason, but we need at least 2 WRs, a TE, a guard, a tackle. 5 out of the 11 starters on offense need to be replaced. That is very frightening.

This team, especially on offense, just doesnt have enough to be a playoff team. We may make the playoffs. We may be going in the right direction. However, we arent there yet. I really hope in the offseason we see the likes of Schrwatz, Cruz, randle, Newhouse, etc.... gone. We cannot hold onto to inconsistent performers or oft-injured players anymore. Tonight it was never more prevalent.
It does feel like we're spinning our wheels every offseason.  
bceagle05 : 11/29/2015 8:05 pm : link
Our defense needs the most attention, yet we still need a TE, at least one WR and two more OL on offense. We could probably use an upgrade at RB, too.

Our core is Manning, Beckham, Pugh, Flowers, Richburg, Vereen, Hankins, DRC and Prince (if he re-signs). Not much else to speak of on this team.
I'll keep it simple:  
The_Boss : 11/29/2015 8:21 pm : link
We shouldn't have this many holes 3 years into a rebuild. That's on everyone involved. I'm sure they've made changes behind the scenes to try to rectify our issues but it's obviously not working. At what point do "high profile" suspects be held accountable? And by "high profile", I mean Coughlin, Reese, and Ross.
I have thought about it for a long time  
Essex : 11/29/2015 8:22 pm : link
overcoming injuries is a product of coaching and roster building. It is up for the coaches to coach up these reserves and the GM to get us players to get coached up. Successful teams do it, NE first to come to mind. Houston has had a ton of injuries. Many teams do. We just can never recover and pay the price. The fact remains we haven't beaten a team this year with a winning record and our last quality win was against the Packers in 2012 on SNF. i am not sure if you can do an autopsy of this team over the last 3+ years and find out what's wrong (and really besides six weeks in 2011--you can argue it goes back six years). All I know is that it is frustrating. Depth is critical in this league and we don't have it and haven't for a long time. I view it as a failure of coaching and the front office.

If we make the playoffs at 8-8 or something like that, I wouldn't hesitate to change regime top to bottom. This regime is simply not getting the job done and ownership has respected them enough to give them all the time in the world. Eli, if you protect him, is a great QB, we just have failed him for a long time and wasted the second part of his career. We need to change that before his career is over.
Wish we still had  
TMS : 11/29/2015 8:23 pm : link
Linval Joseph on our DL but he was too expensive (BS).
NE is in a Class by Itself  
Samiam : 11/29/2015 8:29 pm : link
But, are you serious? We're supposed to,look at Houston? What the hell are they ever done? They can't win and they're not even paying franchise money for a QB. Great comparison.
This was what, our 3rd year  
Bill in UT : 11/29/2015 8:30 pm : link
of rebuilding? And there are still too many holes to fill with the next draft and FA period. This is on Mara. Whatever kind of crap he's being fed, or whatever crap he believes himself, is beyond incompetent. Unless, of course, we make the playoffs at 8-8 and win the SB, which appears to be the MO of this franchise, lol.
RE: NE is in a Class by Itself  
Essex : 11/29/2015 8:32 pm : link
In comment 12651415 Samiam said:
Quote:
But, are you serious? We're supposed to,look at Houston? What the hell are they ever done? They can't win and they're not even paying franchise money for a QB. Great comparison.

The point is they are 6-5 without a good qb, have won games on the road in Cincy. When was the last time we beat a team of Cincy's caliber. The point was to say that good and even bad teams overcome injuries. But I guess you were too thick to understand it.
we need a lot more team speed  
sundayatone : 11/29/2015 8:36 pm : link
we have to be one of the slowest teams going.
And for that matter if you mean NE is in a class by itself  
Essex : 11/29/2015 8:36 pm : link
You mean they have achieved unrivaled success and their coach is therefore untouchable, I would agree. The problem is that people think our staff is untouchable without being in a class by itself
Essex  
Samiam : 11/29/2015 9:11 pm : link
Your comparison is pretty much useless as are your threads. When teams like Houston start winning, it might make a little sense. Now, it makes no sense as do your opinions.
RE: Essex  
Essex : 11/29/2015 9:24 pm : link
In comment 12651530 Samiam said:
Quote:
Your comparison is pretty much useless as are your threads. When teams like Houston start winning, it might make a little sense. Now, it makes no sense as do your opinions.


Ok. But Houston is 6-5, and if the season ended today they would be in the playoffs, something we wouldn't be.
Come off the talent bullshit  
Rflairr : 11/29/2015 9:37 pm : link
That Redskins team doesn't have more talent than the Giants, And they were dominated by them. That shitty Eagles team doesn't have more talent and they were dominated by them.

The coaching staff is the problem.
RE: Come off the talent bullshit  
dep026 : 11/29/2015 9:38 pm : link
In comment 12651609 Rflairr said:
Quote:
That Redskins team doesn't have more talent than the Giants, And they were dominated by them. That shitty Eagles team doesn't have more talent and they were dominated by them.

The coaching staff is the problem.


Better OL, better RBs, better TE, better 2nd/3rd WR. Care to revisit your statement?
I agree, the Redskins do have more talent than the Giants...  
EricJ : 11/29/2015 10:29 pm : link
and I will say this AGAIN. Remove OBJ from this team and we are the worst team in the league. Our defense is already last and minus OBJ and we would be at the bottom in offense too.

So, how exactly has this roster improved over the past few years?
RE: RE: Come off the talent bullshit  
Rflairr : 11/29/2015 11:05 pm : link
In comment 12651615 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12651609 Rflairr said:


Quote:


That Redskins team doesn't have more talent than the Giants, And they were dominated by them. That shitty Eagles team doesn't have more talent and they were dominated by them.

The coaching staff is the problem.



Better OL, better RBs, better TE, better 2nd/3rd WR. Care to revisit your statement?


Nope.
Ok  
dep026 : 11/29/2015 11:06 pm : link
so then you jsut spout off nonsense and have no clue what you are talking about.

Thanks for letting us aware of that.
RE: Wish we still had  
David in LA : 11/29/2015 11:21 pm : link
In comment 12651403 TMS said:
Quote:
Linval Joseph on our DL but he was too expensive (BS).


There were several guys in line for a new contract, one that includes a franchise QB. You clearly don't understand the economics in play here.
The injuries to our OL decimated our offense  
David in LA : 11/29/2015 11:54 pm : link
Eli didn't get sufficient time in the pocket for a good chunk of the game, and our running game was nowhere to be found today. I don't know too teams that can sustain losing 3/5 of their starting line (Patriots once again the rare exception).

IMO we need to move on from Beason. He used to be a great player when he was healthy, but we can't afford to rely on a guy with his injury track record. Brinkley has played ok in his place. I'd approach Beatty about redoing his deal, if he balks, cut bait and move on. I'd like the team to see what Bobby Hart has to bring to the table, and tap into FA to take advantage of a good crop of Tackles. We'll probably end up having Schwartz take a pay cut, or maybe kick Hart inside.

IMO we should move on from Cruz. Judging from Reese's comments about having 2 years off being a very long road sounds like he's likely gone. I'm not in love with the FA's at WR next year, but I'd give Sanu a look and a shot at #2. The team is likely not bringing Reuben back. I like what Tye shows as a receiver at TE. Donnell will be back next year, but we should bring a veteran in the mix. We need to bring JPP back, and address the defensive line in the draft. It'd be great if we can get Reggie Nelson next year, I don't know if Cinci lets him leave.
RE: The injuries to our OL decimated our offense  
dep026 : 11/29/2015 11:56 pm : link
In comment 12652036 David in LA said:
Quote:
Eli didn't get sufficient time in the pocket for a good chunk of the game, and our running game was nowhere to be found today. I don't know too teams that can sustain losing 3/5 of their starting line (Patriots once again the rare exception).

IMO we need to move on from Beason. He used to be a great player when he was healthy, but we can't afford to rely on a guy with his injury track record. Brinkley has played ok in his place. I'd approach Beatty about redoing his deal, if he balks, cut bait and move on. I'd like the team to see what Bobby Hart has to bring to the table, and tap into FA to take advantage of a good crop of Tackles. We'll probably end up having Schwartz take a pay cut, or maybe kick Hart inside.

IMO we should move on from Cruz. Judging from Reese's comments about having 2 years off being a very long road sounds like he's likely gone. I'm not in love with the FA's at WR next year, but I'd give Sanu a look and a shot at #2. The team is likely not bringing Reuben back. I like what Tye shows as a receiver at TE. Donnell will be back next year, but we should bring a veteran in the mix. We need to bring JPP back, and address the defensive line in the draft. It'd be great if we can get Reggie Nelson next year, I don't know if Cinci lets him leave.


I agree with a lot of this. Good stuff. Be interesting if Hart can improve at guard and take it over next year.
That'd be the best case scenario for the team  
David in LA : 11/30/2015 12:05 am : link
This offseason is going to be an important one.
I like the Bengals  
dep026 : 11/30/2015 12:07 am : link
other WR more. Marvin Jones. He brings the speed element our team lacks. Also, keep an eye on Rishard Matthews from Miami. Gets lost in the shuffle with a bad QB.
RE: That'd be the best case scenario for the team  
The_Boss : 11/30/2015 12:09 am : link
In comment 12652061 David in LA said:
Quote:
This offseason is going to be an important one.


So was last offseason. And the one prior to that. And we likely still won't be a playoff team.
This was going to be a long rebuild  
David in LA : 11/30/2015 12:16 am : link
let's be honest, the Cruz and JPP injuries were huge setbacks .
So I think Essex (and RFlair) made a very good point  
hassan : 11/30/2015 8:48 am : link
Essentially lack of talent is not only on Reese but it's on the coaches as well. This regime is not getting its b players prepared or ready to contribute. I'm not a Reese fan but Coughlin has to take some accountability in this as well. Those who give him a pass here and lay it all on Reese don't get it in my mind.

If Giants continue to lead the league in injuries then it's also on Ronnie Barnes he has to go.

David in LA  
hassan : 11/30/2015 8:53 am : link
Makes some good points as well. Hart should be seeing the field. Screw Newhouse he sucks. But JPP and Cruz won't set this team back nearly as long as if Reese's o-line investments don't pan out. I'm worried that Pugh is average at best with concussion issues and it's back to drawing board with Geoff Scwartz. Lots of holes on this oline unfortunately.
coaching staff  
dep026 : 11/30/2015 8:53 am : link
can only do so much. the starting OL yesterday wouldn't start for our wretched 2003 team. injuries have decimated our team. the lack of depth is more on reese than coughlin. I mean we are depending on guys like merriweather, dahl, jerry, bewhouse, brinkley, white, wade to be positive factors in the game. think about that for a second.

those guys are bad players. no coach is going to make them adequate players.
And dep  
hassan : 11/30/2015 8:59 am : link
I fail to see why Randle continues to bug you so much. He's an average to below average receiver with injuries forced to start. Blame Reese and Coughlin for buying into his late year run a la Jernigan, and putting their eggs in the Victor Cruz basket.

He screwed up. But Giants had a lot of issues yesterday. Offense was a fail. Defense was a c-. Coaching was a big fail as the team was flat and scheme was poor.
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