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NFT: Knicks vs. Rockets, anyone?

bceagle05 : 11/29/2015 8:07 pm
Knicks up 25-21 after one. Melo out with an illness. Bench off to a good start.
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Does Alan Hahn  
bceagle05 : 11/29/2015 10:41 pm : link
get a bonus every time he uses the word "learners?"
RE: is Lance Thomas allergic  
nygiants16 : 11/29/2015 10:41 pm : link
In comment 12651827 Enzo said:
Quote:
to rebounds?


He Is an awful rebounder...that is why fishers small ball lineup with Thomas at the 4 doesn't work
the screen could have been a foul  
Enzo : 11/29/2015 10:42 pm : link
but even if Howard set a perfectly legal screen I don't think Galloway was getting over to Ariza in time.
RE: Anyone know why we actually  
PhiPsi125 : 11/29/2015 10:43 pm : link
In comment 12651807 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
lost the game?

Or you guys wanna air out the emotions a bit more?

Once you guys are done talking about the usual crap, you'll probably realize why they lost besides missing their best player.


Man, you just love being the contrarian at the exact moments when everyone doesn't want to deal with your shit. Impeccable timing every single time. You must really be starved for attention.
how about arizas double dribble?  
nygiants16 : 11/29/2015 10:43 pm : link
Blatant non call...ref looking right at it led to the game tying 3
Hey can Galloway pass the ball to Seraphin on a break  
Mason : 11/29/2015 10:44 pm : link
that's awesome. How many times does he have to commit a turnover for a guard to understand maybe this big man doesn't have any handle?
RE: RE: Anyone know why we actually  
Tesla : 11/29/2015 10:47 pm : link
In comment 12651833 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 12651807 SethFromAstoria said:


Quote:


lost the game?

Or you guys wanna air out the emotions a bit more?

Once you guys are done talking about the usual crap, you'll probably realize why they lost besides missing their best player.



Man, you just love being the contrarian at the exact moments when everyone doesn't want to deal with your shit. Impeccable timing every single time. You must really be starved for attention.


He really is a prick. And truly seems to enjoy being one.
RE: is Lance Thomas allergic  
Mason : 11/29/2015 10:47 pm : link
In comment 12651827 Enzo said:
Quote:
to rebounds?


he's not allergic to turnovers. He might set a NBA record for inbound turnovers this season.
seemed like Fisher  
Enzo : 11/29/2015 10:48 pm : link
stuck with Seraphin too long down the stretch. He had his moments, but 30+ minutes is likely too much for him. You thank him for the unexpected offense and other good play ...and sit him for Lopez down the stretch IMO.
RE: how about arizas double dribble?  
Mason : 11/29/2015 10:48 pm : link
In comment 12651834 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Blatant non call...ref looking right at it led to the game tying 3


That was Workman wasn't it.
my boy Lance  
Enzo : 11/29/2015 10:50 pm : link
has 8 games this year where he's grabbed exactly one rebound. I like his effort on defense and he's athletic enough to be a decent finisher...but I can't take him seriously as a hustle/energy guy if he's going to give you nothing on the boards.
RE: RE: is Lance Thomas allergic  
Aspano! : 11/29/2015 10:55 pm : link
In comment 12651831 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 12651827 Enzo said:


Quote:


to rebounds?



He Is an awful rebounder...that is why fishers small ball lineup with Thomas at the 4 doesn't work


I'd say it doesn't work because of the backcourt. If they get beaten, then they funnel the player towards the bigs, causing them to step out. That's fine if you have KP or O'Quinn at the 4, but not Thomas.
Lance isn't a good finisher. He likes to contort his body and then  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/29/2015 10:56 pm : link
throws the ball behind his head into the 3rd row.

He hustles, hits a fair share of open jumpers, plays good defense on Harden, and seems to make less mistakes than others.

But he won't help you win games or develop into something more. I seriously can't complain about Fisher's love for Thomas enough, at some point we all have to stop, because it doesn't look like it's going to change.
RE: RE: Anyone know why we actually  
SethFromAstoria : 11/29/2015 11:01 pm : link
In comment 12651833 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 12651807 SethFromAstoria said:


Quote:


lost the game?

Or you guys wanna air out the emotions a bit more?

Once you guys are done talking about the usual crap, you'll probably realize why they lost besides missing their best player.



Man, you just love being the contrarian at the exact moments when everyone doesn't want to deal with your shit. Impeccable timing every single time. You must really be starved for attention.


nah not at all. I just think everyone should stop acting like 5 year old girls and focus on the fucking turnovers and missed shots and not the coach or a player who was part of the solution not the problem tonight. Its like everyone is a basketball fan and all the experience and knowledge gets flushed out like verbal diarrhea because people want to cry about the same thing every fucking day. I don't give a rats ass whether people want to deal with my shit if I have to deal with theirs. How woudl that be fair? You don't want to see me say its not the coach and I don't want to see everyone whine that it is. Every single damn game. Impeccable timing after every bad play or every bad loss its the same bullshit time and time again. This is why the team lost...

The Rockets had 8 turnovers all game and the Knicks had this in a 7 minute window in the 4th quarter. They
had 21 total.

Derrick Williams bad pass (Patrick Beverley steals)
Kevin Seraphin bad pass (Marcus Thornton steals)
Jose Calderon bad pass (Patrick Beverley steals)
Jose Calderon out of bounds lost ball turnover

They got outrebounded on the offensive glass 17-5. KP played more minutes than anyone else and sat for 3 minutes. The team made shitty plays to lose. They turned it over, they gave up 4 massive offensive rebounds in the final minutes.

You prefer to piss and moan about the coach. SO be it. I'm not going to not talk about the game because you don't like my timing. Too fuckin bad man
TL;DR  
PhiPsi125 : 11/29/2015 11:05 pm : link
But completely expected
Did Seth take over Calderon's Twitter account?  
Anakim : 11/29/2015 11:14 pm : link
Wow wow!
I can see the frustration but guys things can be said with respect.
Let's go Knicks!
#Team
#longjourney
#bouncebackonwednesday
RE: Did Seth take over Calderon's Twitter account?  
PhiPsi125 : 11/29/2015 11:25 pm : link
In comment 12651914 Anakim said:
Quote:
Wow wow!
I can see the frustration but guys things can be said with respect.
Let's go Knicks!
#Team
#longjourney
#bouncebackonwednesday


Don't know...but I'm sure he will follow it up with a 1000 word diatribe on why you are wrong.
Sorry man. I know it can be confusing to read more than one sentence  
SethFromAstoria : 11/29/2015 11:57 pm : link
at a time. Here I can make it easier for you


Fire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire FisherFire Fisher
RE: RE: how about arizas double dribble?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/30/2015 2:28 am : link
In comment 12651846 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12651834 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Blatant non call...ref looking right at it led to the game tying 3



That was Workman wasn't it.


Holy shit, please tell me that isn't true. How often can one referee completely screw a team over before the league office wakes up? Oops... Joey Crawford and the Spurs. They don't give a shit.

Jose Calderon dribbling INTO a pair of Rockets in overtime just to have the ball stolen by a third player is definitely the mark of a veteran NBA PG. I'm starting to wonder if he always made dumb decisions like that or if it's a function of old age.

Blame the coach horseshit gets so tiring. I'm not saying Fish is perfect, but my goodness, it's fucking incessant on EACH and EVERY ONE of these Knicks threads.
I know some have pointed it out, but  
GiantsUA : 11/30/2015 8:33 am : link
offensive boards - Knicks have been bad, turnovers - long cross court passes that were getting poached.

Team generated a lot of offense and played well, not well enough to win.
RE: I know some have pointed it out, but  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2015 8:42 am : link
In comment 12652235 GiantsUA said:
Quote:
offensive boards - Knicks have been bad, turnovers - long cross court passes that were getting poached.

Team generated a lot of offense and played well, not well enough to win.


They are getting killed because Fisher goes small...
Seraphin had a great game, but someone needs to tell him  
Ira : 11/30/2015 9:19 am : link
that he can't dribble the ball in traffic. It's not part of his skill set.
Seraphin makes brain dead decisions with the ball.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2015 10:16 am : link
He should never touch it outside of 10 feet.
RE: Seraphin had a great game, but someone needs to tell him  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2015 10:17 am : link
In comment 12652374 Ira said:
Quote:
that he can't dribble the ball in traffic. It's not part of his skill set.


That is on the player who passed it to him in the open floor not Seraphin....
Anyone else notice  
giantsfan44ab : 11/30/2015 10:28 am : link
Derrick Williams quietly averaging 21 ppg per 36 minutes? Also has a 108 offensive rating and 104 defensive rating. He's not even shooting the ball particularly well and I think if he's given more minutes he can start to get his shot down. Don't see why he's only getting 12 minutes a game when bench scoring has been an issue so far.
Most significant play late in the game(IMO) was  
GiantsUA : 11/30/2015 10:29 am : link
the Calderon turn over.
RE: Anyone else notice  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2015 10:33 am : link
In comment 12652593 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Derrick Williams quietly averaging 21 ppg per 36 minutes? Also has a 108 offensive rating and 104 defensive rating. He's not even shooting the ball particularly well and I think if he's given more minutes he can start to get his shot down. Don't see why he's only getting 12 minutes a game when bench scoring has been an issue so far.


Because according to Fisher Lance Thomas is better than him...
NG 16 - that may be true, but  
GiantsUA : 11/30/2015 10:33 am : link
boxing out is something they teach new players, NBA players should have this down.

Knicks are losing track of people which is leading to easy put backs for the opponent.
RE: Anyone else notice  
Aspano! : 11/30/2015 10:53 am : link
In comment 12652593 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Derrick Williams quietly averaging 21 ppg per 36 minutes? Also has a 108 offensive rating and 104 defensive rating. He's not even shooting the ball particularly well and I think if he's given more minutes he can start to get his shot down. Don't see why he's only getting 12 minutes a game when bench scoring has been an issue so far.


Question - what do the offensive and defensive ratings measure? And are 108 and 104 good or bad?
offensive and defensive ratings  
Deej : 11/30/2015 11:14 am : link
measure points per 100 possessions. I think they're useless for individual players but are really useful for measuring 5 man units. But for individuals it varies too much based on who your teammates are. I look at it sort of like +/-... useful in game while you're watching to confirm what you're seeing, but I dont really want to look at a player's long term +/-.

Recent league average is about 105 points per 100 possessions, give or take a point or a point and a half (down a bit this season). So OFF and DEF ratings of approx 105 would be neutral/average.
RE: NG 16 - that may be true, but  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2015 11:21 am : link
In comment 12652614 GiantsUA said:
Quote:
boxing out is something they teach new players, NBA players should have this down.

Knicks are losing track of people which is leading to easy put backs for the opponent.


My point is you can not go small with a guy who can not rebound...

When Knicks go small and Carmelo is the 4 the rebounding is not an issue...

When you have Porzingis , Lopez, Oquinn and Seraphin the Knicks should never go small unless they are down 10 or more points and need scoring but of course even then he brings in Lance Thomas like he is going to help scoring...

Yea, I just looked it up  
Aspano! : 11/30/2015 11:26 am : link
And I kind of agree. The individual ratings seem a bit convoluted, whereas the team ratings seem pretty straightforward.

For what it's worth, it appears that Derrick Williams has the worst change in spread between team O and D rating on the team when he's on the court versus off the court. The best belongs to KP, followed by Jerian Grant (uhhhhh).
I'm excited for the clash of Lopez brothers  
hitdog42 : 11/30/2015 11:30 am : link
on Friday evening- it should be a good game based on recent team performances.
RE: RE: NG 16 - that may be true, but  
Tesla : 11/30/2015 11:42 am : link
In comment 12652851 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 12652614 GiantsUA said:


Quote:


boxing out is something they teach new players, NBA players should have this down.

Knicks are losing track of people which is leading to easy put backs for the opponent.



My point is you can not go small with a guy who can not rebound...

When Knicks go small and Carmelo is the 4 the rebounding is not an issue...

When you have Porzingis , Lopez, Oquinn and Seraphin the Knicks should never go small unless they are down 10 or more points and need scoring but of course even then he brings in Lance Thomas like he is going to help scoring...


The fact that our coach can't grasp this most basic concept is deeply troubling.
Jose Calderon is a fucking joke  
B in ALB : 11/30/2015 11:45 am : link
He completely shit the bed with the two turnovers.

The refs missed the Ariza double dribble and the Howard moving screen.

Clyde has to go. He is consistently wrong about just about everything. It's uncanny how he's always making mistakes only to be corrected by Breen or whoever is the PbP guy. I know he's like Knicks royalty or whatever - but sorry, he sucks.

And is there any bigger clown than Spike Lee and his bullshit on the sidelines? He's like some sort of unofficial mascot or whatever - but he's an embarrassment.

What a fucked up day/night of sports.
Ehh Spike doesnt bother me  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2015 12:00 pm : link
he is a true fan, he pays for his tickets, he is not some fake Celeb who just comes to the Games because they are given to him...

yeah, love Spike or hate him, he's a legit fan  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2015 12:05 pm : link
He's been one his whole life and he shows up courtside no matter how bad the Knicks are.
Williams  
DanMetroMan : 11/30/2015 12:10 pm : link
spoke out about his lack of PT.
I don't mind Spike as a fan  
giantsfan44ab : 11/30/2015 12:13 pm : link
I just genuinely dislike his views on many things, including his take on KP when he was drafted. For someone who attends what seems like 50-60 nba games a year he doesn't really know that much about basketball.
RE: Williams  
Tesla : 11/30/2015 12:25 pm : link
In comment 12653022 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
spoke out about his lack of PT.


Do you have a link?

If I was him watching Amundson and Thomas get minutes ahead of me I'd be pissed too.
Early sent to Westchester  
BeerFridge : 11/30/2015 3:46 pm : link
Fredette also will be suiting up for them too.
Well I like  
Deej : 11/30/2015 3:56 pm : link
the fact that Early will get some run even if it is the D League.
RE: Early sent to Westchester  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2015 3:59 pm : link
In comment 12653614 BeerFridge said:
Quote:
Fredette also will be suiting up for them too.


Wasn't Jimmer picked up by New Orleans?
The ending sucked  
arniefez : 11/30/2015 4:07 pm : link
but the game was very entertaining. The Knicks have a coaching problem and he was hand picked by Phil and an owner who doesn't make changes very quickly. I wonder if they miss the playoffs if they'll make a change over the summer. I think we've all seen enough of Fisher to realize he's a problem that isn't going to get better.
20 games into the season is hardly a referendum on Fisher's  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2015 4:13 pm : link
coaching career. He improved as a coach from last season to this season simply by recognizing that playing the triangle straight up was not going to work. Of course he can get better. It would also help if his players didn't turn the ball over like a hot potato. They were shockingly careless with the ball.
Just learned that  
Aspano! : 11/30/2015 4:15 pm : link
NBA.com allows for filtering player stats, including defensive stats. I wanted to see %Diff as far as defending for players on the Knicks - basically, the difference in shooting percentage between an opponent's normal shooting % and their shooting % when being marked by a particular player on the Knicks.

The best difference on the Knicks is -10.1%, which belongs to Melo. It's also #7 in the entire league for players who have played at least 10 games. Have to say that I'm kind of shocked by that.
RE: RE: Early sent to Westchester  
BeerFridge : 11/30/2015 4:17 pm : link
In comment 12653657 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12653614 BeerFridge said:


Quote:


Fredette also will be suiting up for them too.



Wasn't Jimmer picked up by New Orleans?


They waived him. He's back with Westchester.
Floyd Mayweather showed up with a huge entourage  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2015 8:39 pm : link
At the Westchester Knicks game, lol
I saw Mayweather at Walmart  
B in ALB : 11/30/2015 9:19 pm : link
the other day. It was completely bizarre.
Jimmer mania!!  
BeerFridge : 11/30/2015 9:44 pm : link
@IanBegley: Final line for Jimmer Fredette in Westchester: 37 points on 12-of-17 shooting & 8 assists. Cleanthony Early had 19 points, 13 rebounds.
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