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Is Coughlin Bringing Down Reese?

kinard : 11/30/2015 3:26 pm
Worst thing that could happen to Jerry Reese is this perception that he and the coach are joined at the hip and, if the Giants don't make the playoffs, that Giants should just "clean house" and get rid of them both.

I hear a lot of people here crying that the Giants don't have talent or depth but the truth is that injuries have completed decimated the team again. Its difficult for me to believe that any team, for example, would expect their 7th, 8th and 9th offensive line to step in and and play at an optimal level.

It seems to me that the talent level is pretty equally dispersed around the league and the better or "best" coaches get the most out of their talent wek-to-week. Do teams like the Vikings, Cardinals or Packers (to name just a few) have that much more talent than the Giants? I don't think so.

Should Jerry Reese take the fall because:

1) the Giants mismanage the clock on an every game basis;
2) The Giants continually waste timeouts like calling a defensive timeout with 6 seconds left in the third quarter on first down? For the second time in a month?
3) Can go toe-to-toe with the undefeated Super Bowl Champs one week and then play down to teams like the 49ers, Redskins and Saints? Is the GM responsible for these alarming no-shows that seem to happen every three or four weeks?
4) There seems to be a fatal special team lapse once a month...for the past five years?

Jerry Reese is an above average GM and I think the Giants would be making a huge mistake letting him go if this team doesn't make the playoffs.

I don't know, I look around the league and feel that the Giants are as good as anyone when healthy and good enough even to be in games when they're not healthy.

Relative to other teams in the league, this isn't a talent issue. It's a consistency issue. There are just too many games when you have no idea what Giants team is coming out to play on a given week.

That ain't on the GM.


I feel like somebody could replace flip the names in your post...  
Britt in VA : 11/30/2015 3:28 pm : link
and probably make the same amount of points going the other way.
Talent level has gone down, down, down  
Steve in South Jersey : 11/30/2015 3:31 pm : link
under Reese.
No....  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/30/2015 3:32 pm : link
Both have warts but to be honest I'd say for sure that Coughlin is a better HC than Reese is a GM.

Actually there probably aren't twenty head coaches that HAVE EVER LIVED that are as good as Coughlin. Think about that for a minute.

Job #1 as HC is to be leader of men. I don't think the Giants EVER really quit on TC during a season.

The league is set up to have 26 mediocre teams, 3 superior teams and 3 horrendous teams. The point is that the 26 typically beat up on each other all year. The NFL wants drama and that is what it gets.
Other way around  
BlueClaw : 11/30/2015 3:32 pm : link
Reese is a coach killer.
Hard to take this post seriously when everyone knows the biggest  
NYGmen58 : 11/30/2015 3:33 pm : link
issue with the Giants is talent, not coaching. Even if Lombardi, Parcells, and Landry were coaching this Giants team it's at best a 7-4 squad right now.

The jury is in on Reese. He is a good evaluate of talent, particularly at the college level but he has no clue how to manage an active, living, breathing NFL roster on a day-to-day basis. He road the coattails of a great predecessor in Accorsi but most (not all) of the key players on the 2 Superbowl Championships under Reese were all players brought in under Accorsi.

He should be a Director of College Scouting not a General Manager. What has he done to prove otherwise?
BS  
The_Boss : 11/30/2015 3:33 pm : link
The talent F'ing blows. In August, both NFL.com (article by Bucky Brooks) and Pro Football Focus ranked the NYG in the 20's in their team talent rankings. Anyone watching this team this year who thinks we have adequate talent frankly needs their head examined.
Britt  
LG in NYC : 11/30/2015 3:34 pm : link
I felt the same way as I read your post.

I know most here have their favorites and it's always"the other guy's" fault... but I truly don't know if one or the other deserve more blame; I just know when I am watching something that isn't working.
The giants..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/30/2015 3:34 pm : link
"continually waste time outs"?

Are you kidding me with this horseshit? Watch some other games. You have teams using timeouts for various reasons outside of the last minutes of the games, and frankly, the Giants have "wasted" very few of them this year.

And yet another thread about clock management. Geez.
Reese is more to blame  
jeff57 : 11/30/2015 3:36 pm : link
The shortage of talent is on him.
The shortage of talent is on Reese  
David in LA : 11/30/2015 3:39 pm : link
but let's completely ignore our string of injuries. IMO if we don't improve next year, we should show both TC and Reese the door. TC has input on many selections. To think it's just Reese just shows people playing favorites.
Some of you seem to believe  
oldutican : 11/30/2015 3:40 pm : link
that Coughlin just sits back from January to July and accepts whomever Reese drafts or signs. If the talent sucks, that has both TC's and Reese's finger prints all over it.

If the season continues as is, that will be 4 straight losing seasons. There is no other team in football that would retain both GM and coach under those circumstances, but odds are Giants will do just that.
Fixed  
Trainmaster : 11/30/2015 3:43 pm : link
How Much Is Coughlin Keeping Reese Afloat?

Coughlin is far from perfect and there are a lot of head scratchers as mentioned above, but no one is considering Reese to be a HOF candidate as a GM, unlike Coughlin who has at least an even money chance to get in the HOF.

Couple of things..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/30/2015 3:43 pm : link
Quote:
If the season continues as is, that will be 4 straight losing seasons. There is no other team in football that would retain both GM and coach under those circumstances


It is actually only 3 losing seasons in a row (9-7 in 2012), and there are countless examples in the history of the NFL where teams haven't made changes in that situation.
It would be four seasons in a row with no playoffs  
jeff57 : 11/30/2015 3:45 pm : link
And no playoffs for 6 of the last 7 years.
RE: Some of you seem to believe  
drkenneth : 11/30/2015 3:46 pm : link
In comment 12653597 oldutican said:
Quote:
that Coughlin just sits back from January to July and accepts whomever Reese drafts or signs. If the talent sucks, that has both TC's and Reese's finger prints all over it.

If the season continues as is, that will be 4 straight losing seasons. There is no other team in football that would retain both GM and coach under those circumstances, but odds are Giants will do just that.


This. And it's funny how Accorsi is beloved here all of a sudden.
Reese is not going anywhere  
giantfan2000 : 11/30/2015 3:48 pm : link
sorry but Giants are not firing Reese

1. TC won't get fired he will "retire"
and Giants will let Reese have a go after building a coaching staff

2. Reese has had quality drafts the past few years - and some decent free agent signings .. Getting OBJ at 12 shows Reese still has an eye for exceptional talent.

3. The question NOONE bothers to ask -- So you get rid of Reese who replaces him? Decent NFL GM's are hard to come by - The fact is If Reese gets fired by Giants there will be 10 teams ready to hire him tomorrow .

Reese is not going anywhere
RE: The giants..  
Cruzin : 11/30/2015 3:49 pm : link
In comment 12653578 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
"continually waste time outs"?

Are you kidding me with this horseshit? Watch some other games. You have teams using timeouts for various reasons outside of the last minutes of the games, and frankly, the Giants have "wasted" very few of them this year.

And yet another thread about clock management. Geez.


Wasting time outs and mismanaging the clock are huge contributors to us losing 4 games this year. What does watching other games have to do with watching Coughlin run around like a chicken with his head cut off at the end of close games have to do with anything? The statement "the Giants have wasted very few of them this year" is completely false.

The confusion at the end of games this year is unlike Coughlin but that along with throwing Landon Collins under the bus after the NE game has me thinking Coughlin may be a little long in the tooth to get the job done.
RE: The giants..  
shabu : 11/30/2015 3:50 pm : link
In comment 12653578 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
"continually waste time outs"?

Are you kidding me with this horseshit? Watch some other games. You have teams using timeouts for various reasons outside of the last minutes of the games, and frankly, the Giants have "wasted" very few of them this year.

And yet another thread about clock management. Geez.


Its kinda true... don't you remember when Gilbride was here how many times we had to take timeout to avoid delay of game as plays came in slowly ? Its not a huge deal but its pretty much true.

This year it has happened but i think its better than it used to be.
Reese must go!  
Blackbeard : 11/30/2015 3:50 pm : link
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where have...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/30/2015 3:50 pm : link
we wasted a timeout that has come back to hurt us??

It didn't yesterday - the lack of a defensive stop is what hurt us.

C'mon - since these wasted timeouts are so numerous, you should have a few examples cued right up.
shabu..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/30/2015 3:51 pm : link
Quote:
Its kinda true... don't you remember when Gilbride was here how many times we had to take timeout to avoid delay of game as plays came in slowly


That's exactly why I said this year. Time out management has been really good the past two years.
Part of the injury problems  
BigBlueCane : 11/30/2015 3:52 pm : link
stem from the fact that Reese routinely acquired via draft and free agency, players with major injury histories.
@OP  
shabu : 11/30/2015 3:52 pm : link
Sorry have to disagree, this team has talent issues and injury issues. Not sure the source of the injury issues are GM land but talent acquisition is and giants have shit the bed on that of late.
JR found a mother-lode of gold  
old man : 11/30/2015 3:53 pm : link
in the 2007 draft, solid silver in 2008, few gold nuggets along the way until '14 with some gold again, and I believe he has in '15 draft as well.
Other than that: Fools gold.AKA: 'Projects'.
RE: Reese is not going anywhere  
jeff57 : 11/30/2015 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12653617 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
sorry but Giants are not firing Reese

1. TC won't get fired he will "retire"
and Giants will let Reese have a go after building a coaching staff

2. Reese has had quality drafts the past few years - and some decent free agent signings .. Getting OBJ at 12 shows Reese still has an eye for exceptional talent.

3. The question NOONE bothers to ask -- So you get rid of Reese who replaces him? Decent NFL GM's are hard to come by - The fact is If Reese gets fired by Giants there will be 10 teams ready to hire him tomorrow .

Reese is not going anywhere

10 teams ready to hire him for what? Not GM. He's pissed away countless draft picks, has had consistently weak LBs and TEs and let players go, like Bennett and Joseph, who he never should have let go. The lack of talent on the current roster at S, LB and TE, is a testament to his failure.
Seriously?  
arniefez : 11/30/2015 3:56 pm : link
.535 winning percentage. 15 years out 20 without a single playoff win puts you into the top 20 head coaches in the history of the NFL? Mike Shanahan has a better winning percentage and 2 Super Bowl wins. Is he top 20 too? In 9 years Jimmy Johnson won 2 Super Bowls has a higher winning percentage and won playoff games 5 out of 9 years. Is he top 20 too?
Did we not have talent in 2012?  
kinard : 11/30/2015 3:59 pm : link
How does one explain: at Atlanta 34-0 (wk 15); at Baltimore 33-14 (week 16); at Cincinnati 31-13?

No talent in 2013?

38-0 in Carolina? 31-7 in KC? 23-0 in Seattle?

Last year? 35-14 in Detroit; 25-14 at home to the Cardinals? 27-0 in Philly? Who could forget that 40-24 debacle on Monday night at home against Colts.

Yeah the GM didn't have us ready to play any of those games.

Those weren't even the 4th quarter collapses which I can name about 7 or 8 under this coach (at least 3 this year alone)

Do the Eagles have that much more talent than us? They've beaten us, what, six times in a row or something?
The Cowboys? They have beaten us in 5 of last 6?

Maybe its that Parcells spoiled me but You should all be exiled to a lifetime of Ali Sherman, Andy Robustelli and John McVay as your GMs then you'd appreciate a GM who has won 2 championships
RE: Where have...  
kinard : 11/30/2015 4:02 pm : link
In comment 12653625 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
we wasted a timeout that has come back to hurt us??

It didn't yesterday - the lack of a defensive stop is what hurt us.

C'mon - since these wasted timeouts are so numerous, you should have a few examples cued right up.


yeah who need that extra 45 seconds the blown timeout would have given us down the stretch yesterday? Do you write shit for the hell of it?
It's impossible to answer  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/30/2015 4:04 pm : link
The question is filled with errors and strawmen.
Kinard, the crap Reese gets around here is unbelievable  
David in LA : 11/30/2015 4:06 pm : link
half the posters giving him crap likely did not like him to begin with. Whenever things go south around here, they jump out of the wood work to criticize Reese. I've asked posters to provide me a list of 5 viable candidates that would be a suitable replacement, still hear crickets. The guy in Baltimore is not leaving, he is being groomed to take Ozzie's place (kind of like how Accorsi groomed Reese).
Both share some of the blame, without a doubt  
jcn56 : 11/30/2015 4:06 pm : link
The question I continue to have - since so many were willing to give Coughlin credit for helping with the roster when times were good - does he get an equal share when the losses are piling up?

Coughlin's Jaguars fell apart at the end with a series of 6-10 seasons (7-9 followed by 6-10 three times). Looks very similar to what we've been seeing lately. In the end, his win percentage will be almost identical - somewhat better here at .540, with a .531 total in Jax.

I do give Coughlin a bit of a pass because the injury situation here has made the job of either coach or GM nearly impossible. There simply isn't enough cap or roster space to be able to accommodate so many injuries to starters.
RE: shabu..  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/30/2015 4:06 pm : link
In comment 12653628 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Its kinda true... don't you remember when Gilbride was here how many times we had to take timeout to avoid delay of game as plays came in slowly



That's exactly why I said this year. Time out management has been really good the past two years.


You're wasting your time. Those with an agenda see what they choose to see.
No talent  
jamestort : 11/30/2015 4:08 pm : link
Not only do I feel we are lacking in the talent area especially when it comes to dept.

I am just blown away by the amount of injuries year after year.. We always seem to have 20 to 25 starters on IR... To me that is amazing...

WR and LB and DL are position of really no dept. I can't believe how much time Kirk Cousins had this Sunday. Don't get me wrong its got better. WR dam we brought in Nicks... enough said..
LB are playing decent... But good god when are we going to start drafting play makers with speed and covering ability..

I am not a fan of Reese at all but who do you go after??
Please please please  
Shirk130 : 11/30/2015 4:10 pm : link
stop using injuries as an excuse. There isn't a team in the NFL that hasn't had to deal with them. The problem is the depth is awful. That is JR's fault. But I also think TC needs to go. It's been four years this team has been mediocre to awful. Time to thank them for all they've accomplished and make a change.
RE: Did we not have talent in 2012?  
shabu : 11/30/2015 4:19 pm : link
In comment 12653658 kinard said:
Quote:
How does one explain: at Atlanta 34-0 (wk 15); at Baltimore 33-14 (week 16); at Cincinnati 31-13?

No talent in 2013?

38-0 in Carolina? 31-7 in KC? 23-0 in Seattle?

Last year? 35-14 in Detroit; 25-14 at home to the Cardinals? 27-0 in Philly? Who could forget that 40-24 debacle on Monday night at home against Colts.

Yeah the GM didn't have us ready to play any of those games.

Those weren't even the 4th quarter collapses which I can name about 7 or 8 under this coach (at least 3 this year alone)

Do the Eagles have that much more talent than us? They've beaten us, what, six times in a row or something?
The Cowboys? They have beaten us in 5 of last 6?

Maybe its that Parcells spoiled me but You should all be exiled to a lifetime of Ali Sherman, Andy Robustelli and John McVay as your GMs then you'd appreciate a GM who has won 2 championships
]

quick quiz.

How does reese get credit other than scouting for 2007 ?
How does Reese get credit for the Eli deal ? - that was accorssi
How does Reese get credit for the rebuild of the oline before 2007 ?

And lastly, how many and what players were on the 2011 Superbowl team that were on the 2007 one.

Reese job has expanded and while Accorsi-Reese got those 2 superbowls in my mind, what has Reese-Ross accomplished ?
No!!'  
Steve Filipowicz : 11/30/2015 4:21 pm : link
Reese is bringing himself down
RE: Where have...  
Cruzin : 11/30/2015 4:23 pm : link
In comment 12653625 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
we wasted a timeout that has come back to hurt us??

It didn't yesterday - the lack of a defensive stop is what hurt us.

C'mon - since these wasted timeouts are so numerous, you should have a few examples cued right up.


So the time out we wasted early in the 2nd half could not have been better used at the end of the game when Coughlin actually said Eli needed more time and we would have scored?
I don't have the time or inclination to research time outs used right now but I'll tell you what FM, you list all the TOs we've used this year and I'll tell you which ones have been wasted.

Now tell me how clock mismanagement has not been a massive problem with this team this year.
RE: RE: shabu..  
Cruzin : 11/30/2015 4:25 pm : link
In comment 12653677 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
In comment 12653628 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:




Quote:


Its kinda true... don't you remember when Gilbride was here how many times we had to take timeout to avoid delay of game as plays came in slowly



That's exactly why I said this year. Time out management has been really good the past two years.



You're wasting your time. Those with an agenda see what they choose to see.


Who has what agenda?
RE: Reese is not going anywhere  
The_Boss : 11/30/2015 4:30 pm : link
In comment 12653617 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
sorry but Giants are not firing Reese

1. TC won't get fired he will "retire"
and Giants will let Reese have a go after building a coaching staff

2. Reese has had quality drafts the past few years - and some decent free agent signings .. Getting OBJ at 12 shows Reese still has an eye for exceptional talent.

3. The question NOONE bothers to ask -- So you get rid of Reese who replaces him? Decent NFL GM's are hard to come by - The fact is If Reese gets fired by Giants there will be 10 teams ready to hire him tomorrow .

Reese is not going anywhere


I've answered it 3 times already today: Eric DeCosta replaces JR.
THey're not letting DeCosta leave Baltimore  
David in LA : 11/30/2015 4:33 pm : link
Newsome has been grooming him to take over for him.
To the OP I'd say it's the other way around  
Torrag : 11/30/2015 4:35 pm : link
When TC has had healthy talented players he's won two Lombardi Trophies. Reese & Co. haven't given Tom that type of roster to work with in some time. They have to stop banking on key players recovering from severe injuries and contributing at a high level.

Cruz never played a snap yet the FO did nothing to fortify the position despite Randle hobbling through the preseason.

Relying on McBride/Hosley as the 3rd/4th CB's was ignorant.

Schwartz ankle was never right and now he's out yet again. His primary backup is...John Jerry.

These types of questionable decisions and evaluations aren't limited to this season they span the last three to four years.
plenty of credit and blame to go around  
Les in TO : 11/30/2015 4:39 pm : link
it's not just on the GM or the coach and injuries are hurting us. why was craig dahl covering Jordan reed on a key third down? why is andre Williams getting touches when he can't break 2 yards per carry and Jennings, darkwa and vereen are outplaying him flat out? is it reese's job to tell randle how to run proper routes? reese also brought in a certain guy named james jones and coughlin decided to go with randle over him
RE: THey're not letting DeCosta leave Baltimore  
The_Boss : 11/30/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12653727 David in LA said:
Quote:
Newsome has been grooming him to take over for him.


You do what the Jets did last year: you ask for permission. They were denied. If the position of GM of the NY Giants has any pinache, and it does, maybe he tells Baltimore to at least allow him to sit for the job. If he says NO, look at guys within the FO of some of the better drafting teams in the league like Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Cincinnati, Arizona, or Minnesota. I'd add Seattle to that list but I think Idzik scared off teams from poaching that group while he was with the Jets.
RE: To the OP I'd say it's the other way around  
kinard : 11/30/2015 4:44 pm : link
In comment 12653730 Torrag said:
Quote:
When TC has had healthy talented players he's won two Lombardi Trophies. Reese & Co. haven't given Tom that type of roster to work with in some time. They have to stop banking on key players recovering from severe injuries and contributing at a high level.

Cruz never played a snap yet the FO did nothing to fortify the position despite Randle hobbling through the preseason.

Relying on McBride/Hosley as the 3rd/4th CB's was ignorant.

Some of you guys think that functional CBs and Offensive linemen grow on trees. What other teams can go more than 1 or 2 deep at either of those positions.

Schwartz ankle was never right and now he's out yet again. His primary backup is...John Jerry.

These types of questionable decisions and evaluations aren't limited to this season they span the last three to four years.



Some of you guys think that functional CBs and Offensive linemen grow on trees. What other teams can go more than 1 or 2 deep at either of those positions?

I don't want to start another James Jones debate but Jerry brought him here and Coughlin saw no need for him and let him go - that's on Coughlin not Reese.

For Reese bashers, I'll agree on two things - His shortsightedness at LB is a fair point as is the tight end position.
Bill Polian  
BigBlueCane : 11/30/2015 4:46 pm : link
is a guy worth calling in terms of a replacement. Above everything else, this idiotic philosophy of investing resources at positions further away from the ball and guys who meet a certain height/weight/speed/strength combo, needs to end.
RE: Bill Polian  
David in LA : 11/30/2015 4:51 pm : link
In comment 12653753 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
is a guy worth calling in terms of a replacement. Above everything else, this idiotic philosophy of investing resources at positions further away from the ball and guys who meet a certain height/weight/speed/strength combo, needs to end.


You seriously think Polian is a viable candidate at his age and 5 years removed from the league? Good lord, you might as well get lumped in with the morons who go to bat for Bill Cowher every offseason.
You know: "Depth" isn't a real thing in today's NFL, right?  
drkenneth : 11/30/2015 4:54 pm : link
Only on BBI: Starter must play cheap, and at an All-Pro level, backups must be pro bowl.

Look, I'm not against replacing Reese, although I think he gets way to much shit around here (That's mainly due to BBI being mainly idiots, but whatever)....But the whole league sucks.

What do you expect Reese to do about injuries? His best player on defense blows his fucking hand off, 4/5 of the OL is hurt..And Oh, by the way, we've had devastating injuries at WR/TE/S/DE.

And it's as if BBI has never watched a fucking draft. Nobody hits on every pick.

I'm not sure what people expect.
The GM job is TOO MUCH for Reese.  
NYRiese : 11/30/2015 4:56 pm : link
.
He was a very good talent evaluator when controlling the scouting department under Accorsi. Not so much a good GM.

The Giant player talent has gone way down since Marc Ross was hired in his place and Reese was promoted to GM overseeing the signings of several ludicrous FA contracts.

Ross has absolutely got to go.
.
Return Reese to his original position of authority and hire a co-equal talent evaluator type GM to help him out with FA signings and roster evaluation (Gettlemen...a joke).
.
If the FO is allowed to continue as constituted the Giants will be middle of the back as long as it's allowed to continue. Contrast the Giants progress with stable perineal top flight organizations (Patriots, Bengals, ....)
5 years removed the league  
BigBlueCane : 11/30/2015 4:56 pm : link
can grant a person an amazing amount of insight and rest. It can lead someone who was burned out, to re-think their thought processes and figure out, what if anything needs changing or updating.

Coughlin took a break for a year and that arguably saved his coaching career, regardless of whether or not the Giants would have pursued him.

Polian's someone I would at least ask because he has different perspectives and different viewpoints and if there's one thing the Giants front office needs right now, it's a new world-view and new ways of thinking because their current ones have floundered and cost this team dearly.
Can we hire..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/30/2015 4:57 pm : link
Parcells as Coach to work with the goods Polian will provide?
RE: The GM job is TOO MUCH for Reese.  
The_Boss : 11/30/2015 4:59 pm : link
In comment 12653772 NYRiese said:
Quote:
.
He was a very good talent evaluator when controlling the scouting department under Accorsi. Not so much a good GM.

The Giant player talent has gone way down since Marc Ross was hired in his place and Reese was promoted to GM overseeing the signings of several ludicrous FA contracts.

Ross has absolutely got to go.
.
Return Reese to his original position of authority and hire a co-equal talent evaluator type GM to help him out with FA signings and roster evaluation (Gettlemen...a joke).
.
If the FO is allowed to continue as constituted the Giants will be middle of the back as long as it's allowed to continue. Contrast the Giants progress with stable perineal top flight organizations (Patriots, Bengals, ....)


The Pats suck in the draft. They're good because they find guys on the scrap heap who fit their culture to a "T". Oh and they have the best coach and QB of this generation.
There are plenty of quality candidates to replace Reese  
jeff57 : 11/30/2015 4:59 pm : link
Chris Ballard, George Paton, Eliot Wolf, Chris Polian, and Nick Caserio are a few.
I've been making my feelings  
Ginny Poo : 11/30/2015 4:59 pm : link
known quite prominently here over the past but it's now time to recognize the future. The Giants are not making the playoffs after yesterdays loss. No way are they going 4 and 1 with the schedule they have left. I don't know who you bring in at GM but unless we go Deja Vu all over again with this guy putting together a new roster it's very likely we are right back at this point next year.

I say the full slate needs to be wiped clean. How much worse could the results be???
Dude, he's like 75 years old and has been out of the league  
David in LA : 11/30/2015 5:01 pm : link
for 5 years. He's already in the HOF, there's zero incentive for him to come back.
Pats suck in the draft?  
jeff57 : 11/30/2015 5:02 pm : link
Gronkowski, Chandler Jones, Solder, Collins, Mayo, Hightower, McCourty, Vollmer?
RE: There are plenty of quality candidates to replace Reese  
The_Boss : 11/30/2015 5:05 pm : link
In comment 12653781 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Chris Ballard, George Paton, Eliot Wolf, Chris Polian, and Nick Caserio are a few.


Thank you.
If we can Reese, these guys (and presumably others) will be tripping over themselves to get the job just like I'm sure if we retire TC, our job will be the most sought after in the league.

We'd literally have the pick of the litter on both fronts. I laugh at posters who say there's no way we could do better if we moved on from TC and JR. Right.....
RE: Reese routinely acquired ...  
Trainmaster : 11/30/2015 5:05 pm : link
... via draft and free agency, players with major injury histories.


^^^
This
This topic is definitely not a black and white issue.  
Default : 11/30/2015 5:12 pm : link
But I know to some that's all it is.
What's next?  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/30/2015 5:21 pm : link
Gil Brandt?
I don't care if he's 75 years old or not  
BigBlueCane : 11/30/2015 5:23 pm : link
at least listen to what he has to say. Because what we have now is NOT working or haven't we squandered enough years yet to understand that.
I listen to him on ESPN and I have no idea what exactly he's saying  
Devon : 11/30/2015 5:31 pm : link
that would make anyone confident in his ability to come back into the league as a full time GM, even if he'd want to.
hard question. Tough situation. I like them both..love tc but  
bluetothegrave : 11/30/2015 5:44 pm : link
I love TC but his old ways sometimes get to me. In the first quarter we had a 4th and 5 on their 38...why wouldn't you go for it? worst case they have it on the 38. He wants to possess the ball but constantly settles for Field Goals n punts when we should go for it.We have a banged up defense so anytime you get a chance to possess the ball in a reasonable situation I would think you keep possession. He does not seem to value the 7 pts like the treasure that it is nor has he ever. Right there was the perfect example. A punt is a long interception..why not go for it on 4th n 5 or so from the 38..why? His clock management is from the planet mars. In addition I'll never understand why he just doesn't tell Eli "on this play don't audible, i want a fucking run". So i love coughlin but hes old ...just not sure if he is our guy anymore although I hope I am wrong. He gets this team ready every week. The Injuries are not he nor reese's fault..you ready for this laundry list ? ahem....beatty, cruz, pugh, richburg, schwartz,donnel, fells, jpp,ayers,hankins,jt thomas, beason, kinnard, thompson, berhe, prince, DRC---LOL. all either out for the season..out now or missed time..sometimes its no ones fault. We should have beat the cowboys if Eli didnt pull a full brain dead move and for no reason told jennings not to score..then throws an incompletion on 3rd down. ..not reeses fault..maybe coughlin, We should have beaten the pats..if retard casillas doesnt back up 5 yards on a 4th n 10 or if collins doesnt drop a pick..or if beckham doesnt drop the ball...(or really if a catch is a catch). The falcon game. eli had all that time in the pocket..how does he not realize he has to tuck the ball away, The saints game. why were we not calling timeouts after the 2 minute warning Just in case they scored a td? Why did we leave ourselves 36 seconds left..then of course the return and the ridiculous bad luck facemask..I think our talent level is very good but who can be good with a billion injuries? no one unless you have brady. I think coughlin is a great coach but he has lapses in judgement and is way to conservative with decisions of going for it and his clock management has been abyssmal and cost us games. Honestly I don't want either fired but if they don't make the playoffs this year..I don't know..i just don't know.
Reese vs. Coughlin  
Archer : 11/30/2015 6:18 pm : link
Quote:
It is generally thought that winning is more about talent than it is about coaching.

I have heard it stated that a good coach can win you a couple of games during the year and a bad coach will lose your team a couple of games. I do not believe that Coughlin is a bad coach so his at worst his impact is neutral.

The Giants do not have enough quality players and they do not have adequate reserves.
Just scanning the roster It is hard to argue that there is a lack of quality and depth.

What is even more disconcerting about the Giants is that the team as constituted has no identity. Old Giant teams were known as physical, smart, and tough minded.
I do not know how to characterize the players on the team.

I think that for the Giants to improve it must start with the players. I am not certain that Reese is the person to revamp the team. He has created the team as it is, and he actually has expressed, numerous times, how he thought that the team was championship quality.
Remember two years ago his count down to the Superbowl.

The team has been awful for the last 4 years. The Giants record for 2012,2013,2014, and 2015 is 27-32. In the weak NFC East only Washington (22) games has won less games over the last (4) years than the Giants . (Dallas won 31 and Philadelphia won 28). The Giants are the only NFC East team not to make the playoffs during these (4)years.


Coughlin  
blue42 : 11/30/2015 6:23 pm : link
is bringing down Reese??? LOL.

If not for Accorsi drafting Strahan and Eli Reese wins nothing.

The roster gets worse every year...if not for Beckum this whole board would be calling for Reese's head.

TC will get a job two minutes after he is let go.....
It will be much longer for Reese.
getting  
blue42 : 11/30/2015 6:26 pm : link
OBJ at 12 proves that there are 11 really bad GM's in the league....I mean if you can't pull the trigger on that you need to find another line of work.

How does Denver always find better free agent RB's than guys we draft???
Simply stated  
TMS : 11/30/2015 6:47 pm : link
Coughlin is way more highly regarded by the Giants and the rest of the league as well. Coughlin might even take over as head of football operations like Parcels did in Miami. Reese will be lucky to get another job above the scout level. MO.
This  
guineaT : 11/30/2015 6:51 pm : link
Quote:
Trainmaster-Reese routinely acquired via draft and free agency, players with major injury histories.


and this

Quote:
Torrag-When TC has had healthy talented players he's won two Lombardi Trophies. Reese & Co. haven't given Tom that type of roster to work with in some time. They have to stop banking on key players recovering from severe injuries and contributing at a high level.
People are going to miss  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/30/2015 6:53 pm : link
Coughlin one day. Especially when the hot young assistant that replaces Coughlin craps the bed.
Brian  
blue42 : 11/30/2015 7:00 pm : link
Kelley might be the guy.....I'd prefer TC stay but if we clean house Kelley might be the guy.It won't be McAdoo.
We have had so many injury...  
nyblue56 : 11/30/2015 7:36 pm : link
lack of execution, and bad coaching moments that it is hard to pin down who is at fault. the reality is I look at the giants roster in comparison to other teams and they are not that far apart. The one area of deficiency is probably OL, where our depth is below average. What I have been seeing the last few years is backups of other teams making plays even when they are below our talent level. They seem to be in position at least to do something right. Our guys don't show that with enough consistency and that points to coaching. I think our young players are thinking too much and not just playing. Almost like they are paralyzed by the fear of making a mistake rather than just playing. That is a function of coaching. Reese should stay as I think he has been doing a decent job.
The O P's  
joeinpa : 11/30/2015 7:40 pm : link
point about decimated by injuries seems to ignore the idea that these injuries have been survived by other teams.

That they seem to cripple the Giants every year is an indictment on the depth of this team, which points to the GM
The Chiefs lost 3 OL starters and had a comeback win  
Giants2012 : 11/30/2015 7:44 pm : link
The Colts have won 3 straight and don't have Luck

Tough to justify the Giants mistakes which lead to losses regardless of injuries.
it's not an either/or situation  
fkap : 11/30/2015 8:07 pm : link
together, they are not a good combo. TC gets say in player acquisition. but he and Reese simply don't get the job done regarding players. It's not that one is bad and one is good. they're both mediocre and the combo of them both is mediocrity.

I prefer both of them going, but something has to change in the group dynamic that makes the Giants run.
Kinard  
EricJ : 11/30/2015 8:33 pm : link
I said this in another thread yesterday. We are one injury away (OBJ) from being the worst team in the league. Our defense is already at the bottom and without OBJ, so is our offense.

You can find a game here or there where we perform well. However, you can also find twice as many games where we either get blown out or dont show up at all. To me, it is because we cannot win the war in the trenches. I created a thread about losing on the line of scrimmage. This is all related to talent.
RE: We have had so many injury...  
AP in Halfmoon : 11/30/2015 8:36 pm : link
In comment 12653996 nyblue56 said:
Quote:
lack of execution, and bad coaching moments that it is hard to pin down who is at fault. the reality is I look at the giants roster in comparison to other teams and they are not that far apart. The one area of deficiency is probably OL, where our depth is below average. What I have been seeing the last few years is backups of other teams making plays even when they are below our talent level. They seem to be in position at least to do something right. Our guys don't show that with enough consistency and that points to coaching. I think our young players are thinking too much and not just playing. Almost like they are paralyzed by the fear of making a mistake rather than just playing. That is a function of coaching. Reese should stay as I think he has been doing a decent job.


I think you're wrong on most points.
Reese is most likely going nowhere  
dpinzow : 11/30/2015 8:42 pm : link
he might have to sacrifice Marc Ross which could be a good move but very unlikely we'll see a new GM

Remember Accorsi had a worse track record before he drafted Eli and he wasn't fired. He went:

8-8
7-9
12-4 (SB XXXV)
7-9
10-6 (disaster in San Francisco)
4-12 (end of Fassel)

from 1998-2003
does not seem logical  
mdc1 : 11/30/2015 9:11 pm : link
that the Giants would get rid of Reese and keep a coach that is near the end with a new GM?

Seems more like you give the GM a chance with a new coach and their approach to developing and using talent selected by Reese. Probably best if TC retires to an office job if this team does not get it done, and it is strongly likely they do not based on some the gutless performances we have seen.

Or we can just keep our dysfunctional situation and is something likely that a scared and lazy ownership would do that holds very few accountable. Good thing for PSLs
RE: You know:  
Boy Cord : 11/30/2015 9:16 pm : link
In comment 12653768 drkenneth said:
Quote:
Only on BBI: Starter must play cheap, and at an All-Pro level, backups must be pro bowl.

Look, I'm not against replacing Reese, although I think he gets way to much shit around here (That's mainly due to BBI being mainly idiots, but whatever)....But the whole league sucks.

What do you expect Reese to do about injuries? His best player on defense blows his fucking hand off, 4/5 of the OL is hurt..And Oh, by the way, we've had devastating injuries at WR/TE/S/DE.

And it's as if BBI has never watched a fucking draft. Nobody hits on every pick.

I'm not sure what people expect.


But your still not against him getting replaced? You just built the case to keep him.
Good Coach/Bad Coach  
upnyg : 12/1/2015 1:04 pm : link
I think Reese needs to draft for need and not for best available talent.

He's done better than most GMs out there. On the coaching side, it is very bipolar. The teamm likes and respects and plays hard for Coughlin. Then, there are times that they don't show up or are asleep for 2-3 quarters. That's coaching. There's no doubt that there talent level is average at best, but they have a 2time SB QB. They have a future HOF receiver.

Someone made a comment earlier that if Parcells was coaching they might be 7-4. I agree. Time management and poor play calling at tend of games is on coaching. If the Giants were 7-3 and lost a stinker to the Redskins, that happens sometimes. But, because our margin of error is so small every game and every play matters.

It's coaching right now.
IMO, the team has done  
santacruzom : 12/1/2015 1:19 pm : link
an average job at acquiring and keeping talent. We've drafted some great players, some okay players, some average players, some poor players, and some *really* poor players. We've let some talented players go to do well elsewhere, kept some who've shown to be worth a second contract, and kept others who haven't shown to be wise retentions. We've signed away some free agents from other teams who've been assets while overpaying for some who haven't.

In short, I think we're like most teams in the NFL in these regards. But being like most teams usually isn't good enough to excel.
RE: You know:  
santacruzom : 12/1/2015 1:23 pm : link
In comment 12653768 drkenneth said:
Quote:

What do you expect Reese to do about injuries?


He's had some really bad luck in this regard with weird-ass offseason injuries and such. But it *is* possible that he's not aggressively trying to investigate the injury issue, which really could be a thing to investigate. It seems like he's counting on a return to the mean, that bad luck will be countered by good. But maybe there really are some people on the training or medical staff that simply aren't doing their jobs well, just like there are incompetent people everywhere in every enterprise.

We can't say conclusively either way. You can't declare that he's done nothing as an accusation, but you certainly can't dismiss it out of hand either.
You're right. We should only draft players who don't get hurt.  
drkenneth : 12/1/2015 1:32 pm : link
.
RE: You're right. We should only draft players who don't get hurt.  
santacruzom : 12/1/2015 1:42 pm : link
In comment 12655288 drkenneth said:
Quote:
.


That's one dumb conclusion to jump to. But what about the staff whose primary responsibility is to help players recover from and prevent injuries? Are they above average at what they do? Does Reese try to determine whether they are?

Let's look at the best team in sports right now: the Warriors. They used to be right up there with the Giants with injuries, for years. We'd see the same shit, particularly in regards to estimated recovery times being wrong time and time again. When they hired Kerr, he had his medical staff implement tools (namely biometric monitoring) he'd seen during his time as GM of the Suns. Apparently some members of his staff were reluctant to do so -- rumors are that some openly scoffed at it. So they're gone now. Kerr has a vision of sorts in regards to his medical staff and is actively involved in it.

Is Reese that way? We don't know, but it sure doesn't *seem* like he's being aggressive about it.
But the Warriors..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/1/2015 1:51 pm : link
are actually coming off a year as one of the healthiest team's and then they let everyone go:

Quote:
The Warriors after winning the NBA championship with the fourth-fewest regular season games missed due to injury overhauled and restructured their training and strength and conditioning staff.
The person now overseeing that department is Lachlan Penfold, whose hiring as head of physical performance and sports medicine was announced in July. He previously worked in a variety of sports in the sports science-rich country of Australia.The Warriors did not renew the contract of head athletic trainer JoHan Wang while director of athletic performance Keke Lyles and strength and conditioning coach Michael Roncariti went to the Atlanta Hawks.
The changes occurred despite the Warriors combining to have players miss only 80 games due to injury and beating the injury-plagued Cleveland Cavaliers in the NBA Finals.
“They did a great job,” Warriors assistant general manager Kirk Lacob said Thursday at the Sports Analytics Innovation Summit of last season's staff. “Obviously we did a lot of things really, really well. For various reasons, most people aren't back this year. All of their contracts were up anyways, so it's not like anyone was fired.
“But we kind of had a vision and Steve (Kerr) had a vision too of the way we wanted to structure that whole department. It was going to be with or without those guys regardless. We were perfectly happy to have them as part of that or not.
“Yeah we did great last year. We've got to do better this year.”


It is way too early to tell if that approach will work or not. JoHan Wang had significantly seen the amount of in juries drop since 2013, even before Kerr arrived, so was it Kerr's methods that helped or were measures already in place.

It is too early to tell.
Do you think that's all on Reese???? And didn't they make changes?  
drkenneth : 12/1/2015 1:52 pm : link
And how would Steve Kerr prevent his best player on defense from blowing his fucking hand off? Or preventing a set of top WRs (Nicks/Cruz) from falling off a cliff? Or a stud S having knee issues (Philips), or a top S draft pick from crashing his car (Jones). This shit is tough to recover from thus the "lack of depth" BBI bitches and moans about, even though it doesn't exists in today's NFL.

The "Reese sucks" argument is so fucking lazy and stupid. 4/5 of our OL is hurt, our best player on D blows his hand off, Cruz is done, Prince gets hurt, on and on...

The fact of the matter, after all this, this team probably should have 1-2 more wins than it does now.
But Coughlin is only responsible for winning Super Bowls.  
drkenneth : 12/1/2015 1:53 pm : link
...Unreal.
Every team has a lot of injuries  
jeff57 : 12/1/2015 1:53 pm : link
That's just a cop out.
RE: Every team has a lot of injuries  
drkenneth : 12/1/2015 1:56 pm : link
In comment 12655349 jeff57 said:
Quote:
That's just a cop out.


And again- It ODB or Collins holds the ball against the Pats, they win.

If they don't fuck up the ending of 2+ games, they have more wins.

How is that on Reese? Is it Reese's fault this team laid an egg against a very beatable Skins team?

Again- What is Coughlin repsponsible for?
RE: RE: Every team has a lot of injuries  
jeff57 : 12/1/2015 1:57 pm : link
In comment 12655359 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12655349 jeff57 said:


Quote:


That's just a cop out.



And again- It ODB or Collins holds the ball against the Pats, they win.

If they don't fuck up the ending of 2+ games, they have more wins.

How is that on Reese? Is it Reese's fault this team laid an egg against a very beatable Skins team?

Again- What is Coughlin repsponsible for?


They both share the responsibility. But, imo, Reese is more responsible.
The argument going..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/1/2015 2:06 pm : link
on in the last couple of posts is why I very rarely throw darts at the staff or players. First off, I can't possibly know definitively why the team is 5-6, other than knowing it is a combination of factors, but the arguments just tend to be circular and change by the week.

In a game where 4/5th of the OL was reserves, we have people blaming TC for having the team flat. Yet, people will say things like "We should be 10-1" and then say Reese sucks at assembling a team.

Logic just doesn't work, which is why I tend to not rip into people like they've just shot my dog, fucked my wife and castrated my son.
Fats....No argument here. I'm looking at the big picture here.  
drkenneth : 12/1/2015 2:30 pm : link
The arrow is up on this team, and they got killed again by injuries.

Another off-season with $$$ of cap space, and this team will contend.

Again- The league isn't that good. People here act like the Giants are a laughing stock.
RE: But the Warriors..  
santacruzom : 12/1/2015 4:27 pm : link
In comment 12655336 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
are actually coming off a year as one of the healthiest team's and then they let everyone go:



Quote:


The Warriors after winning the NBA championship with the fourth-fewest regular season games missed due to injury overhauled and restructured their training and strength and conditioning staff.
The person now overseeing that department is Lachlan Penfold, whose hiring as head of physical performance and sports medicine was announced in July. He previously worked in a variety of sports in the sports science-rich country of Australia.The Warriors did not renew the contract of head athletic trainer JoHan Wang while director of athletic performance Keke Lyles and strength and conditioning coach Michael Roncariti went to the Atlanta Hawks.
The changes occurred despite the Warriors combining to have players miss only 80 games due to injury and beating the injury-plagued Cleveland Cavaliers in the NBA Finals.
“They did a great job,” Warriors assistant general manager Kirk Lacob said Thursday at the Sports Analytics Innovation Summit of last season's staff. “Obviously we did a lot of things really, really well. For various reasons, most people aren't back this year. All of their contracts were up anyways, so it's not like anyone was fired.
“But we kind of had a vision and Steve (Kerr) had a vision too of the way we wanted to structure that whole department. It was going to be with or without those guys regardless. We were perfectly happy to have them as part of that or not.
“Yeah we did great last year. We've got to do better this year.”



It is way too early to tell if that approach will work or not. JoHan Wang had significantly seen the amount of in juries drop since 2013, even before Kerr arrived, so was it Kerr's methods that helped or were measures already in place.

It is too early to tell.


The Warriors are a pretty tight-lipped organization when it comes to injuries and internal maneuverings, but the rumor in the Bay Area is that Kerr's injury/training philosophy was not approved of -- some even say mocked by -- Wang and other members of the medical staff, who were apparently reluctant to go along with Kerr's suggestions.

Like I said, it's a rumor. But shit, it's definitely possible that removing power from -- and then removing altogether -- a staff that presided over years and years of bad injury luck might have happened, and might have actually wound up being a good thing.
er  
santacruzom : 12/1/2015 4:29 pm : link
"was not approved by"
Is Coughlin Bringing Down Reese?  
johnboyw : 12/2/2015 6:36 am : link
No. Although Coughlin's coaching leaves a lot to be desired at times now, he is not the biggest problem. This team lacks talent and that is on Reese. Other than most of his first round picks, Reese has not drafted well with his other premium (defined as rounds 1-4) picks. Consider his picks in the second to fourth round from 2009 to 2014. These picks should either be starters or quality depth right now. That is not the case with far too many of them. Way too many of these guys have or are in the process of bombing out. In 2009 his misses were Sintim, Beckum and Barden. In 2010 it was Dillard (can't blame him for the unfortunate Chad Jones incident). In 2011 it was Austin, Jernigan and Brewer. In 2012 it was Randle (calling a spade a spade), Hosley, Robinson (his JPP of TEs) and Mosley. BTW, CB Josh Norman was drafted in the 5th round that year and that is exactly my point. No vision. Can't blame him for the Wilson thing either although had he not been sitting on his hands he would have made the move up to insure they got the guy they wanted which was Doug Martin. In 2013 it was Moore (again calling a spade a spade) and in 2014 it looks like Bromley and A. Williams. Really poor job of drafting in these rounds which has forced him to pick up lesser talent from other teams to fill the roster. That is, in large part, why this is such a mediocre team (again).
Reese, as I understand it, was an excellent scout. Wrote very detailed reports on prospects that others raved about. The fact that he can do this so well does not necessarily make him a GM. His job as a scout is to write what he sees. His job as a GM, in part, is to be able to predict what a player will be like in 2 or 3 years with good coaching. What is this guys ceiling? Too many of these picks hit their ceiling before he drafted them. That can't happen. In my world, the analogy is that a good Controller doesn't necessarily make a good CFO. You are going from a detailed doer to a visionary. Same as going from a scout to a GM. But with the Giants promote-from-within philosophy, anything is possible. They apparently don't see the difference. And that is a big reason why they are where they are.
And don't forget two other classic fifth round safety reaches  
jeff57 : 12/2/2015 6:41 am : link
Cooper "Can't get on the field" Taylor and Myklle "No impact at Texas" Thompson.
Do people really think  
steve in ky : 12/2/2015 6:53 am : link
that if another coach was coaching this team they would have dramatically more success?

This team is simply not very talented. There are a few real top tier talented players but after that the talent level drops off dramatically.
RE: And don't forget two other classic fifth round safety reaches  
drkenneth : 12/2/2015 7:18 am : link
In comment 12656265 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Cooper "Can't get on the field" Taylor and Myklle "No impact at Texas" Thompson.


Are you at familiar with how the draft works? What the fuck is a "fifth round reach"...got news for you: everyone is a reach in the 5th.

Find me a GM who hits consistently in late rounds.
RE: You know:  
LauderdaleMatty : 12/2/2015 7:20 am : link
In comment 12653768 drkenneth said:
Quote:
Only on BBI: Starter must play cheap, and at an All-Pro level, backups must be pro bowl.

Look, I'm not against replacing Reese, although I think he gets way to much shit around here (That's mainly due to BBI being mainly idiots, but whatever)....But the whole league sucks.

What do you expect Reese to do about injuries? His best player on defense blows his fucking hand off, 4/5 of the OL is hurt..And Oh, by the way, we've had devastating injuries at WR/TE/S/DE.

And it's as if BBI has never watched a fucking draft. Nobody hits on every pick.

I'm not sure what people expect.


Being a GM is more than just the draft. But I guess redoing Beason was great move? Baas was injury prone and Reese did his deal over twice because he mismanaged the cap. The cap has been a huge issue w this team. It's not just he draft. Though missing out on Linval Joseph and Martellus Bennet are no biggie right? Reese placed those guys w Donnel and Kuhn. Yay.

Snee and DD Were cooked and he redid them fucking the cap more. How is Schwarzt working out? Always hurt and the had to sign him because up until Pugh Reese ignored OL at the premium level in the draft because he likes to pick WRs DBs and DLs early. How has the worked?

Reese gets crap because he's messed up a to. And lived off the work he and EA did together. Since it's been his show we we now watching borderline players op around week in and week out the last few years.

I expect the GM not to give guys Beason Schwatz and even Beatty another one of my favs deals that make sense. Not ones that pay them when they are off injured and when healthy are average at best.

To hit on players not taken early once I a while. Not never. Not reach for a stiffime Bromley when he could have kept Joseph easily.

Fats  
fkap : 12/2/2015 7:27 am : link
the team came out flat when 2 of the 5 OL were out. TC chose to reshuffle the entire line. then we lost Schwartz. and then the O came to life. injuries affected the team, but overall, the offensive roster has been together a while, even though we've been missing a bunch of key players from preseason and close to it. They came out and put together a clunker, and injuries don't excuse it.

Put me down as one who thinks Coughlin teams routinely underproduce. He's not a bad coach. But he's not a coach that gets his players to equal more than the sum of the parts, and often the sum is missing a few digits. His one defining trait is that he has consistently mediocre teams with an occasional hot streak. That's better than most teams have, but it's not fabulous, write home to momma about him material, either.
RE: RE: And don't forget two other classic fifth round safety reaches  
jeff57 : 12/2/2015 9:20 am : link
In comment 12656270 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12656265 jeff57 said:


Quote:


Cooper "Can't get on the field" Taylor and Myklle "No impact at Texas" Thompson.



Are you at familiar with how the draft works? What the fuck is a "fifth round reach"...got news for you: everyone is a reach in the 5th.

Find me a GM who hits consistently in late rounds.

Bulloney. When you take someone who's not worthy of being drafted, it's a reach.

Just this year Stefan Diggs and J.J. Nelson were taken after Thompson and are lighting it up for Minnesota and Arizona. Jesse James at TE was making catches for Pittsburgh on Sunday. And Adrian Amos and Ben Heeney, who went before Thompson in the round, are playing well for Chicago and Oakland.

After Cooper Taylor was taken in round 5, Quinton Dial, Luke Wilson and Micah Hyde were taken in the round.
I have always been in the "Reese we Trust" camp  
NNJ Tom : 12/2/2015 9:28 am : link
but his failure to obtain an NFL caliber tight end is a fireable offense to me.


I love Coughlin but it is starting to look like is time has past here in NY.
Love the one(s) your with  
NYG4246 : 12/2/2015 9:39 am : link
all you DUMBFUCKS wishing for a new coach and or GM are gonna realize what you have when your idiotic wishes come true.
RE: Love the one(s) your with  
Curtis in VA : 12/2/2015 9:51 am : link
In comment 12656464 NYG4246 said:
Quote:
all you DUMBFUCKS wishing for a new coach and or GM are gonna realize what you have when your idiotic wishes come true.


You mean like when Bill Cowher retired and they brought in a new coach who took them to a Super Bowl and has had similar success?
We might end up consistently missing the playoffs and having  
Devon : 12/2/2015 9:55 am : link
a talent depleted roster if we lose Reese and/or TC.
RE: We might end up consistently missing the playoffs and having  
BrettNYG10 : 12/2/2015 9:56 am : link
In comment 12656502 Devon said:
Quote:
a talent depleted roster if we lose Reese and/or TC.


Haha
RE: We might end up consistently missing the playoffs and having  
jeff57 : 12/2/2015 9:57 am : link
In comment 12656502 Devon said:
Quote:
a talent depleted roster if we lose Reese and/or TC.


We have a talent depleted roster and are in serious danger of missing the playoffs for the fourth year in a row and sixth of the last seven.
RE: RE: RE: And don't forget two other classic fifth round safety reaches  
drkenneth : 12/2/2015 11:01 am : link
In comment 12656426 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 12656270 drkenneth said:


Quote:


In comment 12656265 jeff57 said:


Quote:


Cooper "Can't get on the field" Taylor and Myklle "No impact at Texas" Thompson.



Are you at familiar with how the draft works? What the fuck is a "fifth round reach"...got news for you: everyone is a reach in the 5th.

Find me a GM who hits consistently in late rounds.


Bulloney. When you take someone who's not worthy of being drafted, it's a reach.

Just this year Stefan Diggs and J.J. Nelson were taken after Thompson and are lighting it up for Minnesota and Arizona. Jesse James at TE was making catches for Pittsburgh on Sunday. And Adrian Amos and Ben Heeney, who went before Thompson in the round, are playing well for Chicago and Oakland.

After Cooper Taylor was taken in round 5, Quinton Dial, Luke Wilson and Micah Hyde were taken in the round.


You realize there are 32 teams in the NFL, right? We can play this game all day.."We should have drafted X".....

Just stop already.

What are you going to do? Fire Reese and keep an 70 year old coach? That's what the Jets would do (and have done).

I just don't understand how people kill Reese, yet ignore the fact that we get killed by injuries every year.

Any way you cut it, this team is a year away from being a contender. You don't think the Giants know this?

But keep stomping your feet and cherry picking 5th round picks.

Quinton Dial has 3.5 career sacks.

Luke Wilson has caught 54 ball in 3 years.

Let's fucking relax here.
What are you going to do? Fire Reese and keep an 70 year old coach?  
jeff57 : 12/2/2015 11:06 am : link
No. I'd get rid of them both.

And it's not "cherry picking." As a whole, Reese's mid-round picks have been bad.
I hear you...But there's no way they are  
drkenneth : 12/2/2015 11:19 am : link
starting all over with a 35 year old Eli.

I like the OC & DC and really don't want to change. Another off-season of draft and $$$ cap space should push this team into the 10+ win area.

Of course, if the whole team gets hurt again, then all bets are off.
RE: Love the one(s) your with  
santacruzom : 12/2/2015 1:01 pm : link
In comment 12656464 NYG4246 said:
Quote:
all you DUMBFUCKS wishing for a new coach and or GM are gonna realize what you have when your idiotic wishes come true.


I used to voice some similar sentiments on Warriors boards: "Mark Jackson took three seasons to transform a perennial laughing stock of a team into a playoff entity that actually believes it can win now... and you want him gone? God help us if your wish comes true and they return to their tendency of firing a coach every year."

The last laugh was not mine in this regard.
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