Crap roster and injuries be damned, after being shown the door by the Rams and Saints Spags better find a little magic PDQ to end this shit show or he won't be able to get a job coaching HS JV.
Fair or not, NFL ownership has shown very little tolerance for repeated failures of this magnitude.
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You're missing the point, nobody is going to care. Management looks at results, not causes.
Quote:
because Spags has so much talent on the defensive side of the ball to work with.
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You're missing the point, nobody is going to care. Management looks at results, not causes.
I think you are missing his point - that management know better than to blame the wrong people.
I think it's possible neither of those things happens.
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In comment 12654404 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
because Spags has so much talent on the defensive side of the ball to work with.
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You're missing the point, nobody is going to care. Management looks at results, not causes.
I think you are missing his point - that management know better than to blame the wrong people.
Would be nice if it worked that way. But history suggests it tends not to. The guy at the top carries the weight. And the D has been a mess.
And, in the second instance, I think most of you guys are thinking pre cap days. Put your money in the offense and how are you going to have great players throughout the defense.
If we agree that we have five (Prince, Crom, Kennard, Jpp, and Hankins I see two questions...when have we really had all five on the field and how many should you expect in this day of free agency and the cap?
I even think we have some good role players, I like Thomas, Collins, Ayers, and Casillas.
So I don't think it's as talentless as some do. But without JPP we haven't been able to fashion a critical pass rush.
But I also saw them makes stops in the second half which indicates half time adjustments. The Villains, who play well at home, only had 20 points - which is really very good when you throw in the turnovers they had. The loss is not on the defense.
This loss is on Cruz, Beatty, Pugh, Schwartz, Weston...no offense can sustain those injuries. That's four starting lineman and leaves us a bum and a rook flanking a weak interior of backups.
I simply can't blame anyone and consistently deny the theory of "results only".
I think we're close. On defense give Spags all five on the field at the same time, get a pass rush that I think we'd counted on Moore for. Get Collins a Free safety and one more stud lineman and I think the defense will be fine. Moreover, I think that wish list of two players can be easily obtained through the draft or free agency.
This defense will be determined by the amount of cap Prince and JPP take up, because I think we need them And some modest cap room.
And, in the second instance, I think most of you guys are thinking pre cap days. Put your money in the offense and how are you going to have great players throughout the defense.
If we agree that we have five (Prince, Crom, Kennard, Jpp, and Hankins I see two questions...when have we really had all five on the field and how many should you expect in this day of free agency and the cap?
I even think we have some good role players, I like Thomas, Collins, Ayers, and Casillas.
So I don't think it's as talentless as some do. But without JPP we haven't been able to fashion a critical pass rush.
But I also saw them makes stops in the second half which indicates half time adjustments. The Villains, who play well at home, only had 20 points - which is really very good when you throw in the turnovers they had. The loss is not on the defense.
This loss is on Cruz, Beatty, Pugh, Schwartz, Weston...no offense can sustain those injuries. That's four starting lineman and leaves us a bum and a rook flanking a weak interior of backups.
I simply can't blame anyone and consistently deny the theory of "results only".
I think we're close. On defense give Spags all five on the field at the same time, get a pass rush that I think we'd counted on Moore for. Get Collins a Free safety and one more stud lineman and I think the defense will be fine. Moreover, I think that wish list of two players can be easily obtained through the draft or free agency.
This defense will be determined by the amount of cap Prince and JPP take up, because I think we need them And some modest cap room.
excellent post G
Well, Spags hasn't been any better and I think a lot of that is on him. He has done nothing creative to generate a pass rush. Then, in a week where we got Prince back and blitzed with success early against a QB easily rattled, we completely stop blitzing for no reason and get burned for more than half the game. He has had issues in the secondary that aren't all personnel as I perceive it, because about 5 or 6 different players have been culprits of the same mistakes.
I place most of the losses on the D, including this one. They can't make any critical stops late in games, he calls a very bland game most of the game, and I am just sickened by most of the outcomes.
1 f-ing stop at the end and Eli gets the ball with enough time to have a shot. 1 stop a little earlier in the 4th to prevent the FG and we don't need a TD on the final drive.
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because Spags has so much talent on the defensive side of the ball to work with.
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You're missing the point, nobody is going to care. Management looks at results, not causes.
Yep thats why JR, TC, Quinn & other positional coaches still have a job with the Giants... "results" have been great the last 3 seasons
Sunday they needed one stop to give hot Giants offense chance to win, came up empty again.
In. crunch time this defense is expose, which is the main reason they are not in front in a horrid division.
It wasn't until Beason went down that they slowly but surely saw Brinkley could do a half decent job in the middle and for awhile their best linebacker Kennard was out of the lineup. There is no question that since JPP has returned there is a lot more fight in the defense. They have played pretty well. With the cap space they will have heading into next year I fully expect them to fortify the defense and give Spags more to work with.
I wouldn't sell him down the road just yet. When you watch them now as opposed to earlier in the year they are playing a much better brand of football on the defensive side. And don't forget they have been turning teams over at an alarming rate and the offense has not been able to convert on a lot of those opportunities.
Truth be told, I've come around to liking the offense more then I had at first but I don't think McAdoo is a good game day play caller. He gets too predictable and a times his play selections make no sense whatsoever. Parcells had a creedo when he was coach. If they can't stop it run it until they do. And if they don't, keep running it.
McAdoo seems to get away from things that are working and seems to feel the need to try and cross up the defense which I guess makes sense but a lot of times he'll call a play and it's like why??? They can't stop what your doing so you let them off the hook by putting in Andre Williams and everyone knows what's comimg. He hasn't been able to establish a running game. It all falls on Elis arm. Every fucking game.
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because Spags has so much talent on the defensive side of the ball to work with.
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You're missing the point, nobody is going to care. Management looks at results, not causes.
This is totally u true. If so TC would be gone along w the Golden Child Jerry Reese. Have you watched the Giants? They gave up 20. Why not fire McAdoo. His offense was just as bad?
McAdoo needs replacing before Spags. This a seriously under performing O.
Nothing Spags can do about weak players combined with big injuries. Give him at least a group of serviceable NFL players and then let's talk.
If we blow it, we'll need a new broom. Time to sweep clean.
There aren't a lot of lockdown defenses in this league anymore. What it comes down to is your offense taking advantage of their opportunities while the defense keeps you in the game. The more you ask of your defense the more the odds are the other team's offense is going to make a play.
On Sunday what more could you ask of the defense. It's just that the offense took forever to get it going. The defense was on the field a lot and you had the sense maybe they could give it back to offense one more time but the odds were that wasn't going to happen. They did but there just wasn't nearly enough time left on the clock.
The Redskins were in total control because of the offense stunk. The defense kept trying to pump life into them and they eventually did. You couldn't ask much more of them. Well, you could but the odds are it wasn't likely. This loss was totally on the offense.
If your take was the defense sucked on Sunday and somehow Spags is losing his job, I'm not really sure how you can get to that conclusion off of Sunday's game.
If your take was the defense sucked on Sunday and somehow Spags is losing his job, I'm not really sure how you can get to that conclusion off of Sunday's game.
Exactly, the defense has overachieved this year given the injuries and talent. The only really bad game of the year was against the Saints. Besides that, they have been bad in some big spots (Dallas, NE, Atlanta), but many of those games it was the offense that was much more culpable than the defense. I have thought, all in all, Spags has done a good job.
Right or wrong, some of these guys get tainted by bad results. Others seem to continue to get jobs regardless (looking at you, Jeff Fisher).
Spags had a good run here, followed by a disastrous HC stint in St. Louis (where the roster he inherited was pure garbage), then over to post Bountygate NO (where the situation might have been too much for Belichick himself to overcome), then over to the Giants for InjuryFest 2015, complete with fireworks show.
I don't think he's had a fair shake for some time now, but let's be honest - prospective employers won't care about that. If he fails here, he's back to position coach level, and it's probably a longshot that he ever gets another shot at a DC or higher level position ever again. Note exactly fair, but then again, neither is life.
And, in the second instance, I think most of you guys are thinking pre cap days. Put your money in the offense and how are you going to have great players throughout the defense.
If we agree that we have five (Prince, Crom, Kennard, Jpp, and Hankins I see two questions...when have we really had all five on the field and how many should you expect in this day of free agency and the cap?
I even think we have some good role players, I like Thomas, Collins, Ayers, and Casillas.
So I don't think it's as talentless as some do. But without JPP we haven't been able to fashion a critical pass rush.
But I also saw them makes stops in the second half which indicates half time adjustments. The Villains, who play well at home, only had 20 points - which is really very good when you throw in the turnovers they had. The loss is not on the defense.
This loss is on Cruz, Beatty, Pugh, Schwartz, Weston...no offense can sustain those injuries. That's four starting lineman and leaves us a bum and a rook flanking a weak interior of backups.
I simply can't blame anyone and consistently deny the theory of "results only".
I think we're close. On defense give Spags all five on the field at the same time, get a pass rush that I think we'd counted on Moore for. Get Collins a Free safety and one more stud lineman and I think the defense will be fine. Moreover, I think that wish list of two players can be easily obtained through the draft or free agency.
This defense will be determined by the amount of cap Prince and JPP take up, because I think we need them And some modest cap room.
The problem is that all of these guys are never going to be on the field at the same time. Scratch off say 6 to 8 as injured. We cannot stay healthy.
As for the last game, I honestly don't see how you can put this on the D at all...nonsense, IMO.
That is simply unacceptable. He has had enough time to improve this roster since we won the 2 Super Bowls, and anyone who wants to give him credit for the first Super Bowl, be my guest but it is simply not accurate at all, the players that won it were here in place.
The injury situation has been going on around here forever, Coughlin said it was a problem when he got here, promised to fix it and it has gotten worse, you can not tell me that none of this is correctable. There are injuries that will happen to all teams, but this teams injury rate is simply over the top, there is a problem and nothing is being done about it.
It all falls on ownership of coarse, but Reese has simply not done a good job here now for too many years, he inherited a Super Bowl QB and a great offensive and defensive line, look at the moves he has made since then and if you are honest at all with yourself you can see he has simply been bad.
If your take was the defense sucked on Sunday and somehow Spags is losing his job, I'm not really sure how you can get to that conclusion off of Sunday's game.
Thankfully, some of the best posters, making the cogent points, return from time to time..They just don't post enough
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because Spags has so much talent on the defensive side of the ball to work with.
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You're missing the point, nobody is going to care. Management looks at results, not causes.
Then why does Quinn still have a job?
If your take was the defense sucked on Sunday and somehow Spags is losing his job, I'm not really sure how you can get to that conclusion off of Sunday's game.
Well said. A defense we all agree is short on talent has done a solid job the past two games. Won't be confused with Denver or Seattle, but we simply don't have the talent. I'm satisfied with the defense's progression so far.
I'm already further down the list..I got my eye on skiba. That bastid should be run out of here.
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You almost have to wonder, how are we even 5-6?
We knew the defense, before preseason was going to be a gamble....
Could Beason stay on the field? Who was going to be the DT next to Hankins? Would a franchised JPP step up his game? Could Prince and DRC stay on the field? Could a rookie safety come in and be the answer at safety? Who was going to be the free safety? Berhe? Taylor? Thompson? All three were wishful thinking on the front office's part....Could Kennard stay on the field, and take that next step, or be another JW? Could other teams backups at linebacker, be starters for the Giants?
And once you got passed the starters, what depth did this team have, to cope with injuries?
Well, the worse case scenario happened with Beason, JPP, Hankins, DRC, and Prince....Collins turned out to be a rookie learning a position....no free safety....no pressure from this DL.....
Not the ingredients for a fourth quarter defense....
With no pass rush, linebacker coverage has killed us in the middle of the field......nickel coverage on slot receivers from the likes of Wade, McBride, Hosley, Dahl, etc, have been dismal.....
And yet we have been in a lot of games with this defense.....they are what they are.....the offense has hurt us more....
It wasn't until Beason went down that they slowly but surely saw Brinkley could do a half decent job in the middle and for awhile their best linebacker Kennard was out of the lineup. There is no question that since JPP has returned there is a lot more fight in the defense. They have played pretty well. With the cap space they will have heading into next year I fully expect them to fortify the defense and give Spags more to work with.
I wouldn't sell him down the road just yet. When you watch them now as opposed to earlier in the year they are playing a much better brand of football on the defensive side. And don't forget they have been turning teams over at an alarming rate and the offense has not been able to convert on a lot of those opportunities.
Truth be told, I've come around to liking the offense more then I had at first but I don't think McAdoo is a good game day play caller. He gets too predictable and a times his play selections make no sense whatsoever. Parcells had a creedo when he was coach. If they can't stop it run it until they do. And if they don't, keep running it.
McAdoo seems to get away from things that are working and seems to feel the need to try and cross up the defense which I guess makes sense but a lot of times he'll call a play and it's like why??? They can't stop what your doing so you let them off the hook by putting in Andre Williams and everyone knows what's comimg. He hasn't been able to establish a running game. It all falls on Elis arm. Every fucking game.
100% right on all counts
Yea and they failed miserably (once again) getting off the field on 3rd down with 4 minutes left and down by 6.
I've generally been happy with the D this year notwithstanding the saints game and the decision to put dahl on reed one on one on a key third and long.
Spags was brought here to be a possible one-year plug in in the event Coughlin walks away after this season,I can't imagine that he was ever considered to be a long term DC solution for the Giants, and it looks like that will be the case at the end of the year.
Huh? History? Giants history? You seem to have a pretty thin grasp of recent Giants history, which has been quite slow to make changes to the coaching staff. It would pretty much take a wholesale house cleaning to cost Spags his job. And maybe that will happen, but it's extremely unlikely Spags goes down without TC and McAdoo.
this was a game he should have unleashed the hounds on kirk cousins but instead we let him pick us apart. when u go back and study it, they had problems when we pressured them. but we only used it as a change of pace
1 f-ing stop at the end and Eli gets the ball with enough time to have a shot. 1 stop a little earlier in the 4th to prevent the FG and we don't need a TD on the final drive.
Holy hell! You blame the defense for this loss??? The offense turned the ball over three times, and still they gave up only 20 points! And this was against a poor defense! They punted on 7 of their first 10 possessions, and didn't put up a point until the 4th quarter.
This loss is fully attributable to a complete and utter failure of the offense to do anything other than score two garbage time TDs against a prevent defense.
Until this game I thought TC did a very good job motivating this club. They've played hard but the consistent tough losses and accompanying disappointment are taking a toll. It was inevitable. That doesn't excuse Tom from a number of glaring and head scratching blunders from the sideline managing the game and the clock.
I think the equipment is behind some of the injury issues.
FIRE HIS ASS!!
NOW!!
The defense's problems aren't necessarily Spags' fault, but neither has he been able to do much more with the defense than previous DC's. Still plenty of blown coverages and an inability to stop the other team when it counts. I don't think Spags made a bad situation worse, but neither was he able to improve it significantly. Is the problem Coughlin? Position coaches? Bad personnel decisions? Probably some of all of that. But when a diffent club management is looking at him for his next job, they really aren't going to make a lot of subtle distinctions.
and stay in games with the defense
spags is doing a fine job with the hand dealt
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because Spags has so much talent on the defensive side of the ball to work with.
How many of the Giants current defensive starters would start for other teams?
DRC (when healthy)
Prince (when healthy)
JPP (the 10 fingered version)
Hankins (but now he's injured)
You're missing the point, nobody is going to care. Management looks at results, not causes.
I don't think you are giving management enough credit. They will weigh everything before making a decision.