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How do you feel this year overall about the state of NYG?

DavidinBMNY : 12/25/2015 7:19 am
In summary I feel frustrated in the outcome of the year, and at the same time I think the talent level is on the rise and the nucleus of the team is building up. We just need a defense.

Once JPP blew up his hand, we all had to feel *bad* about chances this year. Then when Behre, Jackson and Thompson ALL went down and we had no free safety the feeling worsened. And with Beason being Beason and unable to play I think we knew defense was going to be awful.

As a side effect, The team will have a lot more $ to spend in Free Agency then in recent years and I think they're going to make a serious run for a few star players this year - keep in mind they only have 6 draft picks.

I think the giants have 3 good young OL, Manning, Vereen, and OBJ on Offense as a nucleus. Harris on specials and offense is a real find, and was a great free agent signing. He really earned his contract this year. I'm actually hopeful about Hart as well. Kid didn't embarrass himself, and i think he can start in the league next year if he had to. I'm worried the giant will stay a year to long with a player like Schwartz / Beatty who at this stage of their careers the injuries may be to much.

Defense, other then DRC, I'm not really sure what we have there. I'll be optimistic about Hankins, Collins, Bromley. I also see JPP back on an incentive laden contract for at least 1 year. I'll choose to be hopeful about Owa and Kenard and somehow they are healthy next year. I'm also going to give Behre a shot. I'm worried about Prince. He's played poorly since his injury. His play has been to sporadic to award him a big $ contract.

Coaching wise I think it's a miracle this team plays this hard and has been this competitive, and at the same time, unless Coughlin really feels it's a year away I think he should retire. I would not support him being fired.

So how do you feel?
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RE: fkap  
Toth029 : 12/25/2015 10:47 am : link
In comment 12711762 bc4life said:
Quote:
TE might be one of the few bright spots - I think Tye may be a good player for them.

He's not bad but they have no number two TE or a strong blocker at the position.
Reese's Reachs,  
old man : 12/25/2015 10:48 am : link
Projects, lack of or slow recognition of need positions(OL,LB,LB) early in the draft, and key INJURIES, have set the team back 3-4 years.
If the (new?) GM and (new?) Medical/Training staff can fix this current mess soon, we could turn this around in '17.
just checke dthe stats  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 10:49 am : link
11 games, 34 catches, 10.8 ypc, right behind Harris at 11.1.

On a side note - worst receiver Erick Flowers - 1 catch , negative 11 yards.
for comparison same number of games played  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 10:57 am : link
Martellus Bennett 53/80 439 yards 8.3 ypc (banged up this past week - ribs)

Will Tye 34/50 369 yards 10.9.

And yeah - I think this guy was a good pickup by Reese.
I think it is a little harsh to be overly critical  
Matt M. : 12/25/2015 10:59 am : link
or even say he isn't starter quality. Since starting, he has performed well. He has made big catches in each game, averages more than 3 catches per game, and his blocking got a little better. With a year of experience, I exect his blocking to continue to improve. I would be comfortable with him starting, especially since TE is not a focal point of this offense. However, I think we need to bring in a blocking monster to fill a spot behind him.

Of course, he is not going to be one of the top TEs in the league. But, they don't need him to be. They need him to be good, which I think he is (or getting close to). I also think if they used Vereen properly this year, TE would be less of an issue and would also have been a position found wide open more often. McAdoo was handed an excellent weapon and did nothing with him.
This team is a total disaster and continues to slide down hill  
Red Dog : 12/25/2015 11:00 am : link
despite some solid picks at the top of the draft.

It is time for a major organizational overhaul starting with the General Manager and his draft boss, both of who have to go before anything else is done.
optimistic  
eli4life : 12/25/2015 11:12 am : link
Year 2 of a rebuild. didn't expect is to be in the mix this late in the season but the way things "broke" we had a chance. Ton of money to spendthis off season. Not quite sure about tc it might be time to part ways. The game has definitely changed and might of passed him by it happens
IMO  
fkap : 12/25/2015 11:14 am : link
if your TE has stats, he's a receiver, not a TE.
blocking first. receiving second. But that is not the mindset of the current regime. a good TE can not be measured by stats.

It seems to this admittedly uneducated fan that we emphasize the FB and don't emphasize the blocking TE. I can't recall a single TE under TC who was anything to write home about as a blocker.
RE: for comparison same number of games played  
jeff57 : 12/25/2015 11:15 am : link
In comment 12711815 bc4life said:
Quote:
Martellus Bennett 53/80 439 yards 8.3 ypc (banged up this past week - ribs)

Will Tye 34/50 369 yards 10.9.

And yeah - I think this guy was a good pickup by Reese.


Delanie Walker, who the Giants were interested in and probably could have had with a little more money, 76 953 12.3
Matt M  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 11:15 am : link
Yes, with continued development maybe a 45 -50 receptions per year and a solid blocker. That's a good TE.
RE: Matt M  
Matt M. : 12/25/2015 11:18 am : link
In comment 12711836 bc4life said:
Quote:
Yes, with continued development maybe a 45 -50 receptions per year and a solid blocker. That's a good TE.
I'm not sure if this post is agreeing with me or not.
RE: RE: for comparison same number of games played  
Matt M. : 12/25/2015 11:18 am : link
In comment 12711835 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 12711815 bc4life said:


Quote:


Martellus Bennett 53/80 439 yards 8.3 ypc (banged up this past week - ribs)

Will Tye 34/50 369 yards 10.9.

And yeah - I think this guy was a good pickup by Reese.



Delanie Walker, who the Giants were interested in and probably could have had with a little more money, 76 953 12.3
I was really hoping for Walker, but it wasn't to be.
RE: IMO  
Big Blue '56 : 12/25/2015 11:19 am : link
In comment 12711834 fkap said:
Quote:
if your TE has stats, he's a receiver, not a TE.
blocking first. receiving second. But that is not the mindset of the current regime. a good TE can not be measured by stats.

It seems to this admittedly uneducated fan that we emphasize the FB and don't emphasize the blocking TE. I can't recall a single TE under TC who was anything to write home about as a blocker.


Bennett, Jake, Boss was pretty good, Shockey for awhile off the top of my head
RE: IMO  
Matt M. : 12/25/2015 11:19 am : link
In comment 12711834 fkap said:
Quote:
if your TE has stats, he's a receiver, not a TE.
blocking first. receiving second. But that is not the mindset of the current regime. a good TE can not be measured by stats.

It seems to this admittedly uneducated fan that we emphasize the FB and don't emphasize the blocking TE. I can't recall a single TE under TC who was anything to write home about as a blocker.
I think it's the opposite. We have been de-emphasizing the FB. They are rarely in a set with a FB as the lead blocker. Much more often we are in single back sets or move a TE into the backfield.
that's not the point you tried to make  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 11:20 am : link
first you said he's not starter quality.

what Walker did has nothing to do with whether he's a starter.

And, Walker is on pace to catch 80+ passes - Tye is not going to get targeted 104 times in that many games.
We are on the cusp  
GeorgeAdams33 : 12/25/2015 11:20 am : link
Wouldn't change a thing.

FA period and draft will have to be used to shore up the OL once and for all, get a professional TE, Safety, MLB, & DT and some more help at RB, WR, & just acquiring pass rushers in general.

With a little bit of luck and a lot more from the defense this team could easily be 13-1 right now. We've blown a few, the refs phoned us on a few and we had some bad luck. We were not soundly beaten except for the Eagles game. We've been competitive. We never gave up. We have a growing young nucleus that is tough as nails. We make changes now we might just move in the wrong direction. We still might win this division.
Matt M  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 11:22 am : link
I was agreeing with you.
fkap  
GeorgeAdams33 : 12/25/2015 11:23 am : link
I agree about TE's blocking. I wish for WT to be more of an HB/TE and I would love to go after Jermaine Gresham and Dwayne Allen.
Walker is the focus of the Titan's offense  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 11:25 am : link
Their 2nd highest receiver is a wr with 33 catches.
phoned? Love spellczech  
GeorgeAdams33 : 12/25/2015 11:25 am : link
PHOOKED
RE: that's not the point you tried to make  
jeff57 : 12/25/2015 11:27 am : link
In comment 12711848 bc4life said:
Quote:
first you said he's not starter quality.

what Walker did has nothing to do with whether he's a starter.

And, Walker is on pace to catch 80+ passes - Tye is not going to get targeted 104 times in that many games.


Walker is a far better blocker. Catching passes isn't everything. Larry Donnell caught a bunch of passes. It's when, how many drops and how much attention the opposition has to dedicate to stopping you.
bc4life  
Matt M. : 12/25/2015 11:28 am : link
I thought so, but wasn't 100% sure.

I think too many here are getting locked in on stats of other TEs. Tye was not targeted as a primary receiver and he shouldn't be. That isn't the TE role in this offense. The TE, in this offense, should be no better than the 4th option. I would think you want OBJ, another WR, and Vereen all ahead of your TE in terms of targets and catches. But, what the TE must do in this offense is draw enough attention in the middle to keep things open for those other 3. I think Tye is moving in that direction. If his blocking continues to improve, he is fine. But, they do need a road grading, Howard Cross-type, blocker on this roster to compliment him.

In my opinion, the Giants greatest deficiency at TE over the last few years has been in the 2 TE or jumbo sets. At no time have we ever had a real advantage by adding 1-2 more TEs to a formation. We have not had a guy who could come in and be counted on to seal the edge as a blocker or as a lead blocker from the backfield. If you add that type of player and then a decent #3 TE who can catch, then I think we can be OK there.

Regardless, I wouldn't spend a ton of resources for TE. I think on offense, WR and RT are much bigger needs. RB will be a real need in a year or two, because I can't see Jennings here long term.
jeff  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 11:39 am : link
last point - you said he's not a starting quality TE, I disagree and, IMO, you have offered nothing to undermine that argument.

the point never was that Tye is a better TE than Walker.
Matt M  
bc4life : 12/25/2015 11:41 am : link
Maybe Whitlock will have a growth spurt and come in at 6'4" next season.

Over the past few years, have they even drafted or signed a TE who has been heavy on the blocking side?
merry xmas  
area junc : 12/25/2015 12:03 pm : link
i'll be honest - its ugly. i see us going backwards - i do not get the sense we have a young talent base on the rise. i don't see it w/McAdoo. our D, personnel-wise, is worse than it was last year

we've got 2 great players, 3 good young OLs w/potential and nothing else to hang our hat on moving fwd
Not good  
reesesux : 12/25/2015 12:26 pm : link
Reese's drafting is terrible, outside of OBJ, he hasn't drafted a single perennial all-star type player, despite often having relatively high draft picks.

His FA are even worse, outside of DRC who is excellent (but then again we paid him to be). Accorsi used to regularly pickup players who exceed their expectations and contributes for years, like O'Hara, McKenzie, Plaxico, Kerry Collins, etc., you see none of that with Reese.
RE: We are sigining people off the street  
AcidTest : 12/25/2015 12:27 pm : link
In comment 12711707 shabu said:
Quote:
We are signing people off the street ( coefield, Nicks, Meriwether ) that no team wants because we have lack of talent and depth...

That speaks for itself i think.


Agreed.
Really Concerning  
mdc1 : 12/25/2015 12:29 pm : link
I believe we have crossed the chasm of becoming a "losing" culture. We always seem to have some type of excuse for losing and not winning. Injuries, we have a 2 time Superbowl coach so he can't be the issue, its the GM's fault. What this tells me is that losing has become institutionalized and requires a reset, by changing the organization. Rearranging the deck-chairs has done little, and get really worried about our product without an Eli in the future when he turns the corner.
There have been worse  
Glover : 12/25/2015 12:42 pm : link
7-9/6-10 teams. Numbers say that a new regime is necessary. this team can get a little better next year, and a little better in this division is a playoff team. A team that can be the best team in a division where no one is over .500. Shame they aren't good enough to be that this season, but now they not only need to win out, they need the Redskins to lose out, and I dont see that happening.
Fuck JPP and anyone that wants to keep that asshole at some reduced price.
Fuck the strength conditioning staff for allowing Beatty to tear his pect in the off season. I have to blame someone for that. That shit doesnt just HAPPEN.
Fuck Coughlin for throwing when they shoulda run and running when they shoulda thrown. And there were many times that was the case. Absolute mental meltdown in the first 2 games, then can't get a first down that would all but end a couple other games, 3 and out.
And fuck our best player Eli for delay of game penalties, and throwing the ball out of bounds in the first game.

Merry X Mas.
Lack of talent on Defense is quite staggering really.  
Jimmy Googs : 12/25/2015 12:48 pm : link
I am okay with Offense because I don't think it takes much to do better with a quality second WR and a decent TE. O-Line is becoming more stable and may only be one good road grader away from being pretty good actually.

I do lean towards a coaching change as play on field has shown decent effort but lesser so on production. Can't lose that many games in the end, for so many different reasons, and still not hold coaching ultimately accountable. The lack of discipline on the field (and not just Beckham) still is a head-scratcher too.

With a new coaching staff, and plenty of new starters to boot, the quick view is not a good outlook for 2016, but the NFL is a week to week marathon so you never know...

Reese's record  
DG : 12/25/2015 12:58 pm : link
in FA is worse than his drafting record, unfortunately..

1 Pro Bowler (s/b 2 with Eli added) isn't a record to be proud of.

Reese shouldn't be able to live off 2007 forever.

Accorsi essentially built the 2007 Giants and much of the 2011 Giants' rosters.

Coughlin has done as well as he can (minus the game management) with the talent Reese has "assembled."

Would like to see roster turnover %  
DG : 12/25/2015 1:02 pm : link
statistics to see where the Giants have annually ranked since Reese has been GM.

The teams that are consistently in the hunt seem to do a better job in FA than the G-men (Steelers, Ravens (other than this season), Patriots, Packers..

It is unusual imo for a team with the QB with the skills of Eli to be so talent-deficient elsewhere. Generally, teams with top 10 QBs contend unless the GM is not doing his job.

If the Giants are truly run like a business, Reese should not be here next season.
I find the Giants kind of dispiriting these days.  
81_Great_Dane : 12/25/2015 1:13 pm : link
They aren't awful (I've seen the Giants awful, and this ain't that.) but they're not good, and they seem stuck in the mud.

They are sort of plodding. I turn on other games and am impressed by the explosiveness of NFL players. I turn on the Giants and other then Beckham, I rarely see that speed, quickness and explosiveness. Or instinctiveness. They don't seem fiery, either. Sort of placid. When they're winning, that looks like cool professionalism. When they're losing, it looks like they're flat and uninspired.

They haven't discovered enough good players. Their drafting has been below-average to bad. They have made some finds in free agency, notably but not exclusively at TE (Cruz, Donnell, Tye) but not enough to outweigh the unproductive drafts. They have a very thoughtful plan to draft prospects and develop them, but most of the prospects don't develop, so their roster has been loaded with unproductive players. Their roster also seems to have a lot of admirable young men who aren't particularly good football players.

Eli (though he's still underrated, even on BBI) makes the team watchable. He wills them back into game after game after the D and his own teammates on offense fail. Four quick TDs last week. Career game against Miami. Receiver drops, fumbles, whiffs on blocks? He just keeps on coming. I don't think Giants fans will fully appreciate Eli until he's gone, and we see what the team looks like without him. He's underrated because he's not Rodgers or Brees or Brady, and he was a #1 overall pick, but he's a fierce competitor, and relentless.
So many coulda, woulda, shouldas...  
M.S. : 12/25/2015 1:27 pm : link
...really made for a lousy season.

Not fun watching this team.

That said, I posted a few days ago that a bad Giants football team over the past 3-4 years has seemingly fixed an intractable problem with 3 plus offensive linemen: Flowers, Pugh and Richburg.

The defense is an unmitigated disaster with serious help required at all three levels. Draft early and often for this defense; pick up one expensive FA for the defense and hope this unit heals up.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!
Offense rebuilt  
HomerJones45 : 12/25/2015 1:51 pm : link
special teams improved

Return game 100% better

Was almost enough to get us the division. You guys would be singing a different tune had we caught a couple of breaks and were 9-5 instead of 6-8 and that's all it would have taken.

Defense is next.
If we had an average defense, we would have a shot at the  
PatersonPlank : 12/25/2015 2:01 pm : link
Super Bowl. The offense is #6 in scoring, which considering the lack of time of possession and chances (due to the defense never getting off the field) is great.
RE: Offense rebuilt  
Big Blue '56 : 12/25/2015 2:02 pm : link
In comment 12711985 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
special teams improved

Return game 100% better

Was almost enough to get us the division. You guys would be singing a different tune had we caught a couple of breaks and were 9-5 instead of 6-8 and that's all it would have taken.

Defense is next.


Nah..The usual suspects who really should be bannished, will never sing a different tune..If we were 14-0 the complaint would be, "who have we beaten? Have you seen the state of the NFL East? Nothing to write home about, it's a very misleading 14-0." I wish I had MOD power..
RE: Offense rebuilt  
Reb8thVA : 12/25/2015 2:49 pm : link
In comment 12711985 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
special teams improved

Return game 100% better

Was almost enough to get us the division. You guys would be singing a different tune had we caught a couple of breaks and were 9-5 instead of 6-8 and that's all it would have taken.

Defense is next.
How can you say the offense has been rebuilt and is complete when we have no running game to speak of. If we are able to run the ball we probably close out at least two of those games and we are talking about the playoffs not the off season. Improved yes, complete no
RE: Offense rebuilt  
jeff57 : 12/25/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12711985 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
You guys would be singing a different tune had we caught a couple of breaks and were 9-5 instead of 6-8 and that's all it would have taken.
.


And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
Few comments on two players  
5BowlsSoon : 12/25/2015 4:38 pm : link
1. Tye- some here don't think much of him because they don't think he blocks well. Is Gronk a great blocker? Is that important to NE?

2. Prince- so, do you feel he can't fully recover from his injury during the offseason and be the Prince we all have come to love before his injury?
I'm hoping the owners of this team see things  
Jersey55 : 12/25/2015 5:54 pm : link
the way most of us do and make the changes necessary to get this team moving in the right direction. The Giants have always been known around the league for being a loyal organization but I think its time to push loyalty aside for a while and make the moves that have to be made to get this team back up at the top.......
Beckham is a superstar. But that creates a quandry.  
baadbill : 12/25/2015 6:52 pm : link
LT was able to reach his full potential because he was surrounded by awesome defensive players. Beckham will never reach his potential until and unless the Giants do the same. It is why I wanted them to go WR with the #9 pick this past draft - despite the need on OL.

I said last year before the draft, that the biggest bang for the buck was to build an unstoppable offense around Beckham - because the defense was too broken to fix in one year. The Giants didn't get the WR they should have and I think they need two - plus a running game.

Now - that's where the quandry comes in. Beckham's talent gets wasted if the Giants don't invest in their offense. But how can that be justified with a defense that is last in the league? With a defense that is probably the worst Giants defense I've seen in the last half a century? A defense that has constantly amazed me throughout this season by actually keeping the scores of most games close during the first half - when talent wise there is no way most teams shouldn't score 28 points in the first half against this team.

It is my opinion that the Giants need 3 great linebackers (I've been calling for just ONE first round LB pick for 20 years now) - and 1 (preferably 2) defensive tackles. Five players with the ability to control the center of the field against both the run and pass.

But getting those five players in place likely takes 3 years during which none of the offensive support for Beckham can be filled. A real quandry.

One thing I've been through. And don't wish to see again. And that is three coaching regimes over the next 8 years. Each regime starting "fresh". Have that happen and you waste Beckham and Eli. The only "good" thing about a coaching change - and the serial changes that likely follow - is that the "quandry" I described becomes moot during a period of serial coaching changes likely the Giants of the 90's - serial coaching changes = ignoring personnel while the 6-8 year long search for the next long term coach takes precedence.
It's not that bad. I expect good things in 2016.  
drkenneth : 12/25/2015 8:06 pm : link
Should be a fun off-season.
Coughlin  
DavidinBMNY : 12/25/2015 8:19 pm : link
Is going to be really interesting. Has he had enough? Or 1 more to of it. I think the choice will be his.
The defense makes me want to barf out  
EJV79 : 12/25/2015 8:21 pm : link
my christmas dinner.
I'm sorry but we had our needed WR on our roster  
yalebowl : 12/26/2015 8:39 am : link
Reese went out and got a WR familiar with McAdoo's system. He led all of our WRs in the preseason. But Coughlin cut him on the final cut down day.

That receiver is going to the pro bowl as an alternate. Of course I speak of James Jones who would have given us the TDs and victories we needed to control our division.

It grates on me because I see the Packers from where I live and they are going to the playoffs.

I don't care that it's old news. But that one move by Coughlin cost us the playoffs before the clock mismanagement and bone head play calling and the OBJ drops and meltdown.
Reese Must Go  
Percy : 12/26/2015 9:56 am : link
This cannot be said often enough.
Wait a minute...what? Are you saying we had WR James Jones  
Jimmy Googs : 12/26/2015 11:17 am : link
on our squad and we cut him....really? No way.

How could no one have started a thread or mentioned this before on BBI until just now?
RE: Reese Must Go  
AP in Halfmoon : 12/26/2015 11:37 am : link
In comment 12712367 Percy said:
Quote:
This cannot be said often enough.


You can say it until you're blue in the face. He's not going anywhere
Very, very bad  
Unemployable : 12/26/2015 6:05 pm : link
I have no faith in the GM to turn this team around. They have been getting worse and worse since winning the Super Bowl, which is a distant memory. They can't beat good teams. I feel the owner is weak, full of empty threats, and is afraid to make changes. The GM will probably stay on and continue this trend of 6-8 wins a year. If they want to keep Reese around, he should be reassigned to suck the farts out of the stadium seats.
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