I am not sure if this is true but listening this morning to Kim Jones she mentioned the figure being thrown around is that the Giants will roughly have 50M to play with in the off-season. She said as you can see with the Jets, a team can be rebuilt in one year.
I feel that Reese has mismanaged talent. His drafts have been average at best. However there is no doubt a rebuilding has been occurring. They don't want to say so with a NY fan base but that is what has been happening. They have been shedding players especially on defense which has led to the worst D in the league and one of the worst of all-time.
The question I have is if that cap number is true or close to being true, does Mara give Reese a shot to play with that money and bring in real talent to instantly improve the team or does his hit/miss drafts show Mara that Reese can't be trusted with free agent signings?
Your take?
Chris Mara, Ross, etc. Either these guys need to be replaced, threatened that they will be out if there aren't better results, or their jobs needs to be diminished with someone else taking over some of their responsibilities.
Whatever the problem is, there needs to be changes. The FAs we have picked up aren't good. The draft picks we have aren't great outside of some early picks. The development of these players is not happening either. It is a shitshow from top to bottom.
Chris Mara, Ross, etc. Either these guys need to be replaced, threatened that they will be out if there aren't better results, or their jobs needs to be diminished with someone else taking over some of their responsibilities.
Whatever the problem is, there needs to be changes. The FAs we have picked up aren't good. The draft picks we have aren't great outside of some early picks. The development of these players is not happening either. It is a shitshow from top to bottom.
When I say Reese, I think it means his staff too. It is his process. Either way, it all rolls up to him. No different than when you fire the head coach. The new guy comes in and most likely replaces the assistants unless he feels that some of them are worthy of retaining.
Nassib (backup)
Jennings (backup)
Vereen
OBJ
Harris (backup)
Tye (backup)
Flowers
Pugh
Richburg
Hankins
Ayers
Kennard
DRC
Collins
Wing
Brown
DeOssie
Everybody else should be outright released or cut, no matter the cap hit.
Start the year with fresh slate...
Only 3 OL.
Cordy Glenn T (26)
Russell Okung T (28)
Andre Smith RT (28)
On D a lot more but here are key positions for Giants.
Von Miller (LB)
Muhammad Wilkerson (DE)
Malik Jackson (DT)
Eric Berry (S)
Danny Trevathan (LB)
And if we want to F with someone Josh Norman is also a UFA.
Wilkerson
Berry
Miller
Cruz hasn't played in 2 years now, that's quality?
First keep in mind the following players are Giants' FAs:
Jason Pierre-Paul
Prince Amukamara
Robert Ayers
Cullen Jenkins
Trumaine McBride
Josh Brown
George Selvie
Zak DeOssie
Daniel Fells
Brandon Meriweather
Barry Cofield
Craig Dahl
Rueben Randle
Danny Aiken
Hakeem Nicks
Jasper Brinkley
Dallas Reynolds
Jayron Hosley
Brandon Mosley
-----------------------
Stansly Maponga (ERFA)
Larry Donnell (ERFA)
Adam Gettis (ERFA)
Markus Kuhn (ERFA)
Myles White (ERFA)
Brad Wing (ERFA)
Orleans Darkwa (ERFA)
Marcus Harris (ERFA)
Bennett Jackson (ERFA)
Brad Bars (ERFA)
Jerome Cunningham (ERFA)
Matt LaCosse (ERFA)
Ben Edwards (ERFA)
Will Tye (ERFA)
It is good not to hand out contracts that will hurt the team in later years, but with having so many holes, we need a talent infusion that leaves little room for Reese to miss.
if beatty checks out physically there is no reason to release him imo. a RT with good feet if they want flowers at LT or a RT with nasty in him (flowers) if Beatty at LT.
either would be well received by me. larger issues are elsewhere (2nd offensive playmaker at either TE or WR... and the entire defense)
Flowers has not been good this year at all. So, assuming he is our long term answer at LT is a premature statement.
What body of work has earned him the starting position? I like him. I hope he turns out to be a stud for us but nothing we have seen out of him this year should inspire any confidence in any fan if they really watched him. Yes, he has dealt with an injury. Yes, he has played through it. Still, we can't assume that he will continue to get better and good enough to be our LT for the next 10 years give or take. We need to see him do it first and that hasn't happened this year even prior to the injury.
Cruz we have to wait and let the Giants evaluate if he has fully recovered or not. It's rare that players can return to form after a big injury but of those that do rarely return in the first year. We have to wait and see. If he's diminished, then they try and re-work the contract.
Beatty I just don't see re-working anything. They will evaluate what works best for the line next year to see. I'm of the minority but I think it should be Beatty at LT and Flowers at RT. I feel Beatty is good at LT but I don't think he does as well at RT. Flowers can be good at RT but I feel he would dominate RT. Schwartz is still under contract (although an injury risk) and I like what I see from Hart. I don't think we will as much change to the OL as many people here think or want. I don't think it's as bad as people suggest.
Beattly, Pugh, Richburg, Hart, Flowers
I still think we need to improve the talent there but there is only so much that can be done in one offseason. I would address the OL but I think they stick with that group and focus on TE, RB, WR, DL, LB, CB, and S.
He's missed literally two full seasons of competitive football.
Beatty is absolutely going to be told to restructure or take a hike. You don't keep counting on guys that became part of the the problem the team finds itself in today.
People need to stop living in the past. It's not 2011.
He's missed literally two full seasons of competitive football.
Beatty is absolutely going to be told to restructure or take a hike. You don't keep counting on guys that became part of the the problem the team finds itself in today.
People need to stop living in the past. It's not 2011.
It isn't living in the past. It is using common sense. We have a shit load of holes to fill and creating 2 more holes doesn't really help. It isn't like we need the money this offseason. The problem isn't keeping them on the roster. The issues is counting on them to be major contributors. If Cruz was considered the 4th or 5th WR on the team it wouldn't be a problem. If Beatty was considered the 5th OL it wouldn't be a problem.
There is a difference between giving him a break and assuming he is plugged in at LT for the foreseeable future. Nobody called him a bust. Nobody said he sucks. All that was said is that from what we saw this year nobody can be confident he is our LT of the future.
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There's no way you can justify keeping him and waiting and waiting. It's the same mentality that has now lost us two seasons with not making a HC change.
He's missed literally two full seasons of competitive football.
Beatty is absolutely going to be told to restructure or take a hike. You don't keep counting on guys that became part of the the problem the team finds itself in today.
People need to stop living in the past. It's not 2011.
It isn't living in the past. It is using common sense. We have a shit load of holes to fill and creating 2 more holes doesn't really help. It isn't like we need the money this offseason. The problem isn't keeping them on the roster. The issues is counting on them to be major contributors. If Cruz was considered the 4th or 5th WR on the team it wouldn't be a problem. If Beatty was considered the 5th OL it wouldn't be a problem.
Beatty would be a T. He'd be your most vital OL and protection for Eli. Is he physically capable of it? Is he overpaid for his performance?
Cruz cannot make his salary and be considered a number four or five WR. He has to be told to accept a massive restructure or you cut him plain and simple.
Solutions have to be rooted in sense and logic that allow you to build your team forward. Neither Cruz and Beatty are holding up physically and they are on the cap for tons of money. They have not been able to be counted on these last two years yet we are supposed to just plug them and hope for the best?
This isn't baseball where you can call someone a 1 or a 2 or a 5 starter. If Cruz is making 6m he has to be counted on to be premier or you cut him.
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There's no way you can justify keeping him and waiting and waiting. It's the same mentality that has now lost us two seasons with not making a HC change.
He's missed literally two full seasons of competitive football.
Beatty is absolutely going to be told to restructure or take a hike. You don't keep counting on guys that became part of the the problem the team finds itself in today.
People need to stop living in the past. It's not 2011.
It isn't living in the past. It is using common sense. We have a shit load of holes to fill and creating 2 more holes doesn't really help. It isn't like we need the money this offseason. The problem isn't keeping them on the roster. The issues is counting on them to be major contributors. If Cruz was considered the 4th or 5th WR on the team it wouldn't be a problem. If Beatty was considered the 5th OL it wouldn't be a problem.
You can reasonably expect Beatty to recover and play to his recent level. But can you do that with Cruz? That hole may be in the roster with him on it or not and so cutting bait on him - or reducing his contract - is something to consider very seriously.
Beattly, Pugh, Richburg, Hart, Flowers
I still think we need to improve the talent there but there is only so much that can be done in one offseason. I would address the OL but I think they stick with that group and focus on TE, RB, WR, DL, LB, CB, and S.
I agree. I think Schwartz and Hart fight it out for the RG spot. That also happens to be the order I am researching players in to; TE, RB, WR, DL, LB, CB, and S. Although defense is the biggest need it's just easier to me to start looking at the offense first.
For TE you can get Tye and Donnell back at vet minimum and then I am looking at who shakes loose from the Colts. It's likely Dwayne Allen and he would be cheaper than Freeney. He's the better blocker of the two anyway. RB I am looking at Lamar Miller (Miami). Overthecap.com has Miami at ($5,223,113) in the hole next year. I don't think they can keep him. They also have another good back they like. WR will be tougher as I'm still trying to find a good cheaper option but they will likely have to spend some to get a great #2 to compliment Beckham.
Moving on to look at defense next after I look at WRs better. I'm fine with the O-Line.
He's missed literally two full seasons of competitive football.
We'll see. I'm not giving up the kid. Maybe I'm thinking with my heart and not my head.
Combine that with a roster that might be 50% turned over this offseason, and it might require two offseasons to get the talent up where we hoped we'd be in 2015-6.
The fix needs to come from the draft and young players progressing. And unfortunately that fix will take a couple years.
Also, few UFAs perform up to payscale after they've signed their second pro contract. You walk the razor's edge as a team looking for talent in UFA, and NYG has kept it small as a result.
I agree. Beatty gets at least one more year at LT. Assuming good health for all, Flowers is currently the third best LT on the team. At least one year at RT will do him and the team nothing but good.
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I'm of the minority but I think it should be Beatty at LT and Flowers at RT.
I agree. Beatty gets at least one more year at LT. Assuming good health for all, Flowers is currently the third best LT on the team. At least one year at RT will do him and the team nothing but good.
I look at this from a different perspective. If Beatty is not part of your long term plan, you cut him and invest the savings in a position, regardless of whether it is OL or not, that is.
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In comment 12718205 USAF NYG Fan said:
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I'm of the minority but I think it should be Beatty at LT and Flowers at RT.
I agree. Beatty gets at least one more year at LT. Assuming good health for all, Flowers is currently the third best LT on the team. At least one year at RT will do him and the team nothing but good.
I look at this from a different perspective. If Beatty is not part of your long term plan, you cut him and invest the savings in a position, regardless of whether it is OL or not, that is.
It's not cost effective.
Your advocating throwing away $5 million to save $4 million. $4 million will not get you a good RT in 2016 IMHO.
Flowers played as well as you could expect a rookie with a chronic injury, but the signs are there he's not a franchise LT. His body want to get out and block. It's not the injured leg or lack of technique. He has much better push than anchor. His skills scream right tackle, with his size and nasty, he gives us McKenzie level potential immediately.
A line of Beatty, Pugh, Richburg, Hart, Flowers is a good line and immediately makes us better. I would concentrate on acquiring a legitimate swing tackle and a high-round interior lineman through the draft.
But we do have money to go after any FA we want. not every FA, but any given player we can go after. We have to do some dumpster diving, because of the number of spots needing filling, but if we think the value is there (or close) we can close the deal on several high priced players. If we're going to throw the money around, we need to go for starters, not Harris/Vereen types. Yes, both of them are multi role players, but we need starters at a couple of key spots.
Beatty will cost 9.3 mil to keep on his current contract. it'll cost 5 mil to ditch him pre June 1st. in a good case scenario, he'll accept a pay cut. but we can add 4 mil to the budget if we ditch him. he could be worth it to keep, but he can be easily cut. remember, he'll count 4 mil, whereas a FA will count less with the backloaded deal.
If he is a RT, coupled with the difficulty of signing a good LT through FA, might want to keep Beatty around, at a reduced price.
Look at the link. $110 million dollar spending spree. That really fixed things in 2014/2015, I see.
When I look at this team, here's where I see need (not in rank order):
Offense
1. QB - Time to start thinking about drafting/grooming an heir apparent. Not a critical need for this year.
2. RB - I would like to see a 3rd round or later RB added to the mix (if only to push Andre Williams off the roster).
3. WR - OBJ obviously fine at the top. I want Cruz back on a reworked deal. Harris is fine in a 3/4 role. We really need WR2 starting level talent. We got a peak at what an OBJ-less offense looks like and it's not pretty. Even a healthy Cruz was not really capable of playing the WR1 role. Alshon Jeffery would be a dream signing, but I also wouldn't be averse to a high pick.
4. TE - I like Tye, but I'd like another option added to the mix.
5. OL - I think the starting OL next year is Beatty, Pugh, Richburg, Hart, Flowers. I'm ok with that. Depth needs to be improved.
Defense:
1. DE - I like Ayers as a piece. JPP can come back if the price-tag is reasonable (he needs to be paid at a level that is above the best situational pass rushers...but not an elite DE). We'll see what we have in Owa. Help is still needed here. If there is a good edge rusher available with our first pick, I would be happy with using it on a DE.
2. DT - Hankins and Bromley/Jenkins is fine. Depth could be improved, but I wouldn't advocate spending major resources here given needs elsewhere. However, the market of available talent may dictate that this is where money gets spent. It certainly wouldn't hurt us to have a difference maker to lineup alongside Hankins.
3. LB - I'd be happy with upgrades at any/all spots. Big hole in the D right now and no difference making players.
4. CB - DRC and Amukamura is a perfectly fine starting tandem imo if Prince can be retained at a reasonable price. If not, we will need to replace him. Need to continue to add talent/depth here as well.
5. S - I like Collins in the box. Desperately need a centerfielder to play alongside him. I don't know where Weddle is at health/age wise...but if he checks out, adding a player of that type could have a huge impact on the D. I would invest in a similar player in the draft early in the next season or two as well.
Given the above, to me, the focus this offseason needs to be on netting the following:
1. Starting CB (Prince or replacement)
2. Starting DE (JPP or replacement)
3. Starting LB(s)
4. Starting FS
5. Starting WR
6. Startable G
7. Startable CB
8. Upside RB
9. Startable TE
I would draft something like DE/LB, FS, WR/G, LB/RB at the top of this year's draft and try to fill elsewhere through FA and next year.
1. Improve running game and pass protection - IMO this all comes down to the line. There were too many negative running and passing plays for the offense to maintain consistency. Plus, we were unable to finish games because of our inability to make a few yards running when we needed it. We need to get a solid offensive line.
Beatty - He is signed thru 2017 with an avg cap hit of $9.2mm. He is 30 years old and thus I would be reluctant to rework his contract. He is an average LT being paid like an average LT. I don't see a way to upgrade the position without paying more. IMO, I think we should keep him and possibly move him to LT, Flowers to RT and upgrade two positions.
Draft a stud RG in 2nd rd of draft - Many great guards are chosen after the first round. I think we should target one as early as the 2nd rd to finally get us a dependable running game.
2. Get rid of all net negative players - These are the players who show up at times but more often than not create negative plays such as interceptions and fumbles.
IMO, I would get rid of Randle and Donnell and delegate A Williams to a backup role. Randle has all the tools but no drive and competitiveness. As for Donnell, I am more fearful that he will fumble than make the consistent play. And Williams just sucks IMO. No vision.
3. Get rid of Amukamara - He is a solid player but likely will get paid like a tier 1 CB. You know he is not a shutdown corner. So unless he is willing to sign a reasonable contract then let him go and put those resources elsewhere.
4. Get a veteran FS - We don't need someone spectacular. We need someone solid like...umm...Rolle. Get someone solid on a reasonable contract and hope one of our younger guys step up.
5. JPP - He is much better than what we currently have but not worth mega money. Get him on a reasonable contract or franchise him. We can't afford to lose him and not replace him.
6. Get a solid veteran WR - Find a WR with good route running skills that can beat single coverage when asked. We don't need him to be a game breaker. The Giants just need someone who can beat their man when coverages roll toward OBJ.
7. Draft - Aside from guard, draft all defense. Draft the best available defensive player in the first round and get some LBs earlier than the Giants usually like to draft.
8. Find a coach or a system that is conducive to developing young players - I know football is a complex game. But the way the NFL is these days, the teams simply don't have time to be patient with their draft picks. FA is expensive and a bad way to generally build teams. So find a way to get your young players on the field. Maybe simplify the offense like NE has done using multiple looks for similar plays. Or finding a coach willing to take more chances on youth. I know I am being overly simplistic in this regard. I don't know what the problem is but it is becoming increasingly difficult to consistently win in the NFL when your younger players don't develop.
It's not cost effective
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With Beatty there would be more dead money ($5 Mil) lost than saved (little over $4 mil) in 2016
Your advocating throwing away $5 million to save $4 million. $4 million will not get you a good RT in 2016 IMHO.
I get your point but Beatty is scheduled to make $9 million. So you are saving $4 million and additional dollars for the following season. Your saving approx $9 million the following year. Average it out and that's $13 million over two years with approx $50 million to play with.
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It's not cost effective
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With Beatty there would be more dead money ($5 Mil) lost than saved (little over $4 mil) in 2016
Your advocating throwing away $5 million to save $4 million. $4 million will not get you a good RT in 2016 IMHO.
I get your point but Beatty is scheduled to make $9 million. So you are saving $4 million and additional dollars for the following season. Your saving approx $9 million the following year. Average it out and that's $13 million over two years with approx $50 million to play with.
You can't count the following year though. That's the year to cut or restructure because of the dead money to savings ratio.