Please note this is all personal opinion, as there are many solid arguments here regarding reasons to either keep or fire both TC and Reese. This is more of me piecing this together from past history, tidbits from our insiders here, and the narratives out of the media from the last few weeks. Also a chance for me to prepare myself, as I am in the blow it up camp.
Reese is staying and TC is going.
A poster named Andy340 in the "it's been a good run" thread noted the parallels to 2003, and this season has felt a lot like that year. To me the parallels are not between Fassel and TC, but that the talent levels through poor drafting and allocation of resources in key areas by both GMs finally caught up to the franchise.
Look at the 2003 roster, particularly the offensive line and defensive back 7. The offensive line situation under Accorsi was even worse, but you see the Accorsi/Reese playbook if you look at the two rosters - resources allocated to WR/DB with minimal ROI, JAG or poor quality linebackers, and even drafting for players in areas of need instead of best value (William Joseph is an example).
I remember after that season emailing Peter King (MMQB was must-read) and asking why Accorsi shouldn't go along with Fassel since the talent management was so poor. Peter was nice enough to reply and stated that as Ernie had built the 2000 SB team, the Giants would stay the course since those types of GMs aren't readily available and he hadn't had a chance to hire his own GM. And the Giants did, with the caveat that Wellington was hiring TC whether Ernie liked it or not.
Now remember that while Ernie built the very good 80s Cleveland teams, the 2000 team was his only SB team to that point. He did not have the two Super Bowls that Reese has, nor the drafting of Beckham or pre-accident JPP as landmark picks. So an educated guess is something similar will happen - Reese will be retained but asked to revamp the scouting/talent, and when it comes to the coach, he will own the process and have input, but John Mara will make the decision.
When it comes to Tom, what we've heard from our insiders here is that the Giants were looking for any excuse to keep him, and we had the PFT report that said he would stay if the team won both games to finish the year. There's never really been any leaks that Reese is in hot water (and the term rebuild wasn't used in the media until this season). The team's poor performance last night and the Odell incident will likely force their hand. Either way, Tom is going to get a soft landing.
You could see now how that soft landing is being built through the narrative shift that's emerged in the media the last couple of weeks - it's now that "this team does not have a lot of talent but is playing hard" rather than the late-game mismanagement of earlier this season. Forget about Papa, Banks and the beat writers, you've heard this narrative directly from Buck/Aikman and Michaels/Collinsworth the last two weeks during national game broadcasts. That comes directly from inside Timex. Reese will take the bullets going forward for Tom.
How they finally handle Tom's departure remains to be seen. I don't think they pull an early dismissal this week as they did with Fassel, and will hope that the Eagles quit on Chip and the Giants win to send Tom away with a feel-good moment.
As for the future, like others I thought McAdoo was the heir apparent but that may no longer be the case; they may want to go to a defensive-minded coach for the rebuild. It will be an attractive job with the cap room and two premier players at QB and WR.
Sorry for the long post, but it was a good exercise for putting one's thoughts together before what will likely be a turbulent couple of weeks.
Of the 4 combos:
1) Keep Coughlin and Reese
2) Keep Coughlin, fire Reese
3) Fire Coughlin, keep Reese
4) Fire Coughlin and Reese
The only one that makes zero sense is 3) IMHO.
Then there's FA flop.
While I see the reason some hesitate to move on from TC, I too think it's time. Also, they need to internally seriously self-examine regarding Ross and Sternfeld et al and their scouts/processes.
Coughlin's not gonna embarrass himself like that - he'll accept his fate like a man, make a graceful exit and get a hero's welcome for his Ring of Honor induction. It's time for a change, but it doesn't make this easy. It was depressing to see Coughlin in the postgame presser last night, and Eli was every bit as miserable. Too bad the franchise couldn't find it's way out of this rut a little sooner.
While I see the reason some hesitate to move on from TC, I too think it's time. Also, they need to internally seriously self-examine regarding Ross and Sternfeld et al and their scouts/processes.
That's the problem. They may think all they need to do is fire the coach, when they also need to change some of the scouting staff.
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and I'll add I suspect Tisch is ready to make changes on the coaches, thus his recent comments about making the playoffs. Agree Reese will own the process, but the HC hire will largely be decided by Mara and endorsed by Tisch, et al.
While I see the reason some hesitate to move on from TC, I too think it's time. Also, they need to internally seriously self-examine regarding Ross and Sternfeld et al and their scouts/processes.
That's the problem. They may think all they need to do is fire the coach, when they also need to change some of the scouting staff.
I think they will, much like Accorsi handed over the drafts to Reese and had to align with Tom's vision on players.
While I see the reason some hesitate to move on from TC, I too think it's time. Also, they need to internally seriously self-examine regarding Ross and Sternfeld et al and their scouts/processes.
I think we might see Reese going through what Coughlin has gone through over the last two years. The whole "we like you so we'll keep you but..." not sure if it'll be Ross and Sternfeld or one of them.
I don't have any faith in Reese in terms of subordinate hires, we might see Accorsi being tapped up to "consult" on any hires.
From what I saw on Finding Giants, the NFL Network show, I just didn't get a confident feeling from the structure.
Of course Reese is responsible for this, and he can also change it.
Honestly, my gut feeling is that a lot of problems stem from Coughlin and Reese not being on the same page. Too many instances of players being brought in who don't seem to fit.
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I think they will, much like Accorsi handed over the drafts to Reese and had to align with Tom's vision on players.
Honestly, my gut feeling is that a lot of problems stem from Coughlin and Reese not being on the same page. Too many instances of players being brought in who don't seem to fit.
^^^^^^^^THIS
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I think they will, much like Accorsi handed over the drafts to Reese and had to align with Tom's vision on players.
Honestly, my gut feeling is that a lot of problems stem from Coughlin and Reese not being on the same page. Too many instances of players being brought in who don't seem to fit.
I think you could look at specific cases of the 3-4 guys being drafted or signed as 4-3 DEs (Sintim, Moore and even Selvie) as evidence of that.
Loyalties still side with Coughlin. Reese is just a good, long-term employee.
So if you have a new head coach, don't you think there will be two new Coordinators?
Where does that leave Eli?
If Tom leaves, and Reese stays, the same machine is in place that created this shithole of a roster......think he starts to make all the right moves, all of a sudden?
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I think they will, much like Accorsi handed over the drafts to Reese and had to align with Tom's vision on players.
Honestly, my gut feeling is that a lot of problems stem from Coughlin and Reese not being on the same page. Too many instances of players being brought in who don't seem to fit.
Agree here - there have been rumblings in the media as well.
Also - Coughlin has always been very involved, more so than other coaches, in the creation of the roster. Some parts of this team seem to have been neglected - in particular the OL - for too long. I wonder if part of that was a reluctance to break up some core units made up of veterans for younger, inexperienced players, and how much of that came up from the coaching staff.
The narrative has changed, and I agree it seems like damage control to protect Coughlins reputation. Let's face it this team could have made the playoffs but shot itself in the foot repeatedly throughout the year with multiple poor coaching decisions. Coughlin will always be one of my favorites, but the time has come and it should have come unfortunately a lot sooner.
I would love a defensive minded HC, but I think we missed our chance last year when Bowles was available. I think a switch to a 3-4 Defense makes sense. It's better suited for todays game, the defensive players we have that are worth keeping fit that scheme and I think its also easier to find players in the draft and FA to rebuild for that sort of defense. The question remains though, which Defensive minded HC candidate is out there that fits?
I hope that there will be changes in scouting and player personell. While Jerry will likely stay, I hope he is pressured to replace some of his staff or else take the full consequences of their results. Ownership has to get their hands out of player decisions; chris mara needs to go.
Ultimately, I think they can turn this around rather quickly. I just hope there is a viable HC candidate out there that fits.
I think everyone at MetLife was too sanguine about their ability to manufacture quality players out of low drafts picks (Diehl), UDFAs (Seubert) and second tier FAs (O'Hara). With some luck, they were able to build a great line out of those guys plus a premium FA and a high draft pick. For several years, they tried to go the same route aside from Will Beatty, and it didn't work the second time around. They eventually faced up to that and started using top draft picks on Pugh, Richburg and Flowers, but the damage was done.
1) you have players fighting on the sidelines in the 1997 Vikings playoff game where we had a lead of 19-3 at the half. Sparks got into it with 3 different players, Strahan and Hamilton did also. Then to give up a TD still lead by 2 and then lose the ensuing Onsides kick which promptly led to a FG and a win for the vikes.
2)Versus SF in 2003 we had a 38-14 lead with 4 mins to go in the 3rd period and promptly allowed SF to score 25 unanswered points.
3) SB vs Ravens. What a shit show, one of the only times I can actually say that we looked like a scared team out there. We lost to freaking Dilfer, DILFER...
So while there are indeed parallels, our worse playoff appearances all came under Fassel
The only reason the Fassel thing came out early was because Fassel himself went into Mara's office and point blank asked him if he was going to be fired. When Mara said yes, Fassel pretty much came out and said let's just go ahead and make this public, and he announced it to the team and the Giants had the green light to start hunting for his replacement (Coughlin), but Mara let him finish out the season.
I don't see Coughlin doing the same thing. To be honest, when Coughlin says he's not concerned about his job status, I do believe him. He's been around forever, he's been fired before, and he's got a long legacy behind him. If this is the end for him, so be it. What I do think Coughlin is concerned about is his coaches and players. He knows full well, if he goes, a lot of people will lose their jobs and that's tough.
Now, what I'm curious to see is what happens on Black Monday. Traditionally, coaches are let go then and there. However, I want to see what the Giants do. They tend to move pretty slow in their decision making process with the coaches, usually wait a couple of days and then make the move. Part of the Giants decision making will be who is the replacement and will they be better than TC. If the Giants pull the trigger right away, that means they have someone in mind and know he will be available. However, for argument sake, let's say that the Giants are really waiting on Sean Payton. No one knows for sure what the Giants will do, however, I will say that I heard from someone last week who does hear things time to time that the Giants like Payton. Again, take it with a grain of salt, lots of rumors are around. So if the New Orleans thing is unclear and he's the guy they want, you wonder if they don't let TC go until they know what is going on with Payton.
Now, I do think Reese is safe, the Giants will give him an opportunity to hire his coach and go from there. But Mara also is aware of the world around him and perception. There is blame to go around in the front office for this. But if they aren't going to go after the head (Reese), they will go after his lieutenant to send a message that there has to be a fall guy for the talent. It won't be Chris Mara. But it will be Marc Ross.
My guess at all this- TC resigns and takes a place in the front office/consultant. Ross is fired. Reese picks his coach. And that coach will have the decision on which assistants to keep, but the Giants could well recommend that McAdoo stays.
Agreed, this is one minimum event that is going to happen IMO.
The only reason the Fassel thing came out early was because Fassel himself went into Mara's office and point blank asked him if he was going to be fired. When Mara said yes, Fassel pretty much came out and said let's just go ahead and make this public, and he announced it to the team and the Giants had the green light to start hunting for his replacement (Coughlin), but Mara let him finish out the season.
I don't see Coughlin doing the same thing. To be honest, when Coughlin says he's not concerned about his job status, I do believe him. He's been around forever, he's been fired before, and he's got a long legacy behind him. If this is the end for him, so be it. What I do think Coughlin is concerned about is his coaches and players. He knows full well, if he goes, a lot of people will lose their jobs and that's tough.
Now, what I'm curious to see is what happens on Black Monday. Traditionally, coaches are let go then and there. However, I want to see what the Giants do. They tend to move pretty slow in their decision making process with the coaches, usually wait a couple of days and then make the move. Part of the Giants decision making will be who is the replacement and will they be better than TC. If the Giants pull the trigger right away, that means they have someone in mind and know he will be available. However, for argument sake, let's say that the Giants are really waiting on Sean Payton. No one knows for sure what the Giants will do, however, I will say that I heard from someone last week who does hear things time to time that the Giants like Payton. Again, take it with a grain of salt, lots of rumors are around. So if the New Orleans thing is unclear and he's the guy they want, you wonder if they don't let TC go until they know what is going on with Payton.
Now, I do think Reese is safe, the Giants will give him an opportunity to hire his coach and go from there. But Mara also is aware of the world around him and perception. There is blame to go around in the front office for this. But if they aren't going to go after the head (Reese), they will go after his lieutenant to send a message that there has to be a fall guy for the talent. It won't be Chris Mara. But it will be Marc Ross.
My guess at all this- TC resigns and takes a place in the front office/consultant. Ross is fired. Reese picks his coach. And that coach will have the decision on which assistants to keep, but the Giants could well recommend that McAdoo stays.
Thanks Matt. Informative as always. I was originally going to comment on the Payton stuff, as I've been of the opinion that it's agent leaks rather than the Giants. But if you think there's smoke, then it's worth re-thinking. I still do think he's headed to Miami via trade or Dallas after Brees retires.
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and a couple of things-
The only reason the Fassel thing came out early was because Fassel himself went into Mara's office and point blank asked him if he was going to be fired. When Mara said yes, Fassel pretty much came out and said let's just go ahead and make this public, and he announced it to the team and the Giants had the green light to start hunting for his replacement (Coughlin), but Mara let him finish out the season.
I don't see Coughlin doing the same thing. To be honest, when Coughlin says he's not concerned about his job status, I do believe him. He's been around forever, he's been fired before, and he's got a long legacy behind him. If this is the end for him, so be it. What I do think Coughlin is concerned about is his coaches and players. He knows full well, if he goes, a lot of people will lose their jobs and that's tough.
Now, what I'm curious to see is what happens on Black Monday. Traditionally, coaches are let go then and there. However, I want to see what the Giants do. They tend to move pretty slow in their decision making process with the coaches, usually wait a couple of days and then make the move. Part of the Giants decision making will be who is the replacement and will they be better than TC. If the Giants pull the trigger right away, that means they have someone in mind and know he will be available. However, for argument sake, let's say that the Giants are really waiting on Sean Payton. No one knows for sure what the Giants will do, however, I will say that I heard from someone last week who does hear things time to time that the Giants like Payton. Again, take it with a grain of salt, lots of rumors are around. So if the New Orleans thing is unclear and he's the guy they want, you wonder if they don't let TC go until they know what is going on with Payton.
Now, I do think Reese is safe, the Giants will give him an opportunity to hire his coach and go from there. But Mara also is aware of the world around him and perception. There is blame to go around in the front office for this. But if they aren't going to go after the head (Reese), they will go after his lieutenant to send a message that there has to be a fall guy for the talent. It won't be Chris Mara. But it will be Marc Ross.
My guess at all this- TC resigns and takes a place in the front office/consultant. Ross is fired. Reese picks his coach. And that coach will have the decision on which assistants to keep, but the Giants could well recommend that McAdoo stays.
Thanks Matt. Informative as always. I was originally going to comment on the Payton stuff, as I've been of the opinion that it's agent leaks rather than the Giants. But if you think there's smoke, then it's worth re-thinking. I still do think he's headed to Miami via trade or Dallas after Brees retires.
There are absolutely agent leaks. The Saints ownership situation is a soap opera with Benson and his daughters. Add in Brees at 37 and near the end of his contract, and Payton wants out of there. That said, I think there is mutual interest. The question is compensation and availability, which is why I'm interested to see what happens on Monday. If the day goes by and TC is not fired, I think that means the Giants are trying to work something out with New Orleans and/or monitoring. And if nothing comes to pass there, TC stays. Miami also makes a ton of sense for Payton, particularly because the Saints will send him to the AFC. But if Payton wants to jump in and make an immediate impact, the Giants are the team.
None of those come close to the only 3 playoff appearances Fassel had. He had 3 playoffs, each one led toone of our worse losses in franchise history
I would love to know the exact details as to why they hate Fassel. To me it is somewhat obvious that he got blackballed until that asshole Billick used him as a scapegoat
I'm sure they do. But they are also weighing against who is an obvious upgrade from Coughlin, both long and short term. This hire is critical because you are talking about taking Eli to the end of his career and also this will be Reese's hire and his job will be on the line this time. I would have to think that they have a handful of guys who they believe are the right people to let TC go for. And if they don't feel they can get one of them, TC might just well stay.
If I'm right, it's difficult to tell on what level this is most prevalent. Management? Coaching? Or beyond all of that, ownership?
The insinuation has always been that Fassel was involved in extramarital issues and other partying in public that the Mara's felt was not becoming of the head coach of the Giants. Ironic that they would consider Payton when he's had the same problems and a Vicodin addiction to boot.
From what I saw on Finding Giants, the NFL Network show, I just didn't get a confident feeling from the structure.
Of course Reese is responsible for this, and he can also change it.
That is exactly how I felt when I saw it.. I saw the 2 scouts who really knew their stuff and then Ross. I didn't get it then I don't get it now.
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I don't know the story. I've seen a lot of people hint that there were things that happened behind the scenes in Fassel's personal life, but I don't know what they were. I can easily believe that they actively tried to blackball him, though, because while he wasn't a great coach he certainly had a better track record than a lot of other coaches that have been recycled in this league - Rich Kotite? Ray Rhodes? Mike Mularkey? Wade Phillips? Chan Gailey? Norv Turner? Bruce Coslet?
The insinuation has always been that Fassel was involved in extramarital issues and other partying in public that the Mara's felt was not becoming of the head coach of the Giants. Ironic that they would consider Payton when he's had the same problems and a Vicodin addiction to boot.
I could see that as a reason to dump him, but there has to be more for the blackballing that went on
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I think they will, much like Accorsi handed over the drafts to Reese and had to align with Tom's vision on players.
Honestly, my gut feeling is that a lot of problems stem from Coughlin and Reese not being on the same page. Too many instances of players being brought in who don't seem to fit.
Then that is an indictment of Reese not TC. Reese is not the coach he is the one that is to get the players for the coach, not the other way around.
He asst HC in Jax and my be able to fix our Line since that was his specialty.
TC goes, but slides into front office
Reese hires his coach
Marc Ross is fired
Reese and TC help build a team in their vision.
I believe McAdoo will be back
Here's my post from another thread today...
This is the first time
GiantTuff1 : 1:43 pm : link : reply
in Coughlin's tenure they are running schemes on offense and defense that I like a lot, the talents just isn't there especially on defense to execute, but the Oline isn't roses either, the WR spot, TE... it's a lackluster team devoid of talent.
Honestly, I think it's a miracle the Giants were in so many of these games as they were this year, and with that said it's a thumbs up to the coaching for getting them there, but also a huge black eye on them as well because they had the opportunity to close out games and couldn't. There's no killer instinct in the team, or coach, IMO. We have always had trouble finishing with the exception of the two super bowl runs, which is an irony of the highest order. A top QB and HOF coach should be pulling NFC titles in almost every year. We don't do that. Our consistency is mediocre at best. And 5-6 years of no playoffs? Yeesh.
I think Coughllin is at the end, but I can see him coming back. I do think it's time to say goodbye though.
I really would like them to continue with this offensive system tho. Eli glows about it, and I unfortunately think there had been some meddling with the tempo and aggressiveness of the offense early on in the year. I got the impression it was tampered with until a few weeks back... It's a rhythm based attack-style offense that pushes the pace and puts the defense on their heels. Then after Dallas opener, that O disappeared for a stretch and you had the play clock going to zero shit we saw with Gilbride. That to me screams of some philosophical jousting on some level, and lack of cohesion. You get the sense that once this O was semi forced on Coughlin, that could be the start of a pile-up of philosophical incongruence between the front office, and between the staff which would be difficult to overcome, and likely the time for TC to exit stage right.
Whether McAdoo takes over for this team or not, I hope he stays on as offensive coordinator. He's been growing in his time here despite some hiccups, and two straight 30+ TD and low-to-mid teen INT seasons for Eli shows me the arrow is pointing up for Eli, putting up back to back career years on 6-10 teams. That's crazy. Imagine we had some extra pieces? I don't want to scrap all that we've been building.
I pray and hope for the best, but we'll see. Wish we would have sent Tom off better, but rarely do people ride off into the sunset like Strahan, and TC's almost the kind of guy who needs to take a slug to the head to leave.
My perfect scenario would be to can Marc Ross.
Then perhaps have a nice seat for TC in the front office to help build this team in his vision... TC knows talent and what kind of people you need to win.
I don't think Reese is the problem either, and feel he's taken on more in the past two drafts to try to right the ship... I think Ross is the fall guy and rightfully so...
Reese and TC, give them this team and find a head guy that could keep the offensive momentum going, and let's see what we could do.
I'd be pissed if we hire: Acollege head coach without any NFL experience, Nick Saban at 64, Sean Payton, anyone from the Belichick tree..
I'd be happy if we hire: John Harbaugh if he becomes available, Sean McDermott(Defensive-minded), Jason Garrett if JJ let's him go(very doubtful, imo)
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In comment 12718807 Matt in SGS said:
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and a couple of things-
The only reason the Fassel thing came out early was because Fassel himself went into Mara's office and point blank asked him if he was going to be fired. When Mara said yes, Fassel pretty much came out and said let's just go ahead and make this public, and he announced it to the team and the Giants had the green light to start hunting for his replacement (Coughlin), but Mara let him finish out the season.
I don't see Coughlin doing the same thing. To be honest, when Coughlin says he's not concerned about his job status, I do believe him. He's been around forever, he's been fired before, and he's got a long legacy behind him. If this is the end for him, so be it. What I do think Coughlin is concerned about is his coaches and players. He knows full well, if he goes, a lot of people will lose their jobs and that's tough.
Now, what I'm curious to see is what happens on Black Monday. Traditionally, coaches are let go then and there. However, I want to see what the Giants do. They tend to move pretty slow in their decision making process with the coaches, usually wait a couple of days and then make the move. Part of the Giants decision making will be who is the replacement and will they be better than TC. If the Giants pull the trigger right away, that means they have someone in mind and know he will be available. However, for argument sake, let's say that the Giants are really waiting on Sean Payton. No one knows for sure what the Giants will do, however, I will say that I heard from someone last week who does hear things time to time that the Giants like Payton. Again, take it with a grain of salt, lots of rumors are around. So if the New Orleans thing is unclear and he's the guy they want, you wonder if they don't let TC go until they know what is going on with Payton.
Now, I do think Reese is safe, the Giants will give him an opportunity to hire his coach and go from there. But Mara also is aware of the world around him and perception. There is blame to go around in the front office for this. But if they aren't going to go after the head (Reese), they will go after his lieutenant to send a message that there has to be a fall guy for the talent. It won't be Chris Mara. But it will be Marc Ross.
My guess at all this- TC resigns and takes a place in the front office/consultant. Ross is fired. Reese picks his coach. And that coach will have the decision on which assistants to keep, but the Giants could well recommend that McAdoo stays.
Thanks Matt. Informative as always. I was originally going to comment on the Payton stuff, as I've been of the opinion that it's agent leaks rather than the Giants. But if you think there's smoke, then it's worth re-thinking. I still do think he's headed to Miami via trade or Dallas after Brees retires.
There are absolutely agent leaks. The Saints ownership situation is a soap opera with Benson and his daughters. Add in Brees at 37 and near the end of his contract, and Payton wants out of there. That said, I think there is mutual interest. The question is compensation and availability, which is why I'm interested to see what happens on Monday. If the day goes by and TC is not fired, I think that means the Giants are trying to work something out with New Orleans and/or monitoring. And if nothing comes to pass there, TC stays. Miami also makes a ton of sense for Payton, particularly because the Saints will send him to the AFC. But if Payton wants to jump in and make an immediate impact, the Giants are the team.
Will Saints require compensation for Payton? I can't see Giants shipping high draft choices to New Orleans.
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In comment 12718854 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
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In comment 12718807 Matt in SGS said:
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and a couple of things-
The only reason the Fassel thing came out early was because Fassel himself went into Mara's office and point blank asked him if he was going to be fired. When Mara said yes, Fassel pretty much came out and said let's just go ahead and make this public, and he announced it to the team and the Giants had the green light to start hunting for his replacement (Coughlin), but Mara let him finish out the season.
I don't see Coughlin doing the same thing. To be honest, when Coughlin says he's not concerned about his job status, I do believe him. He's been around forever, he's been fired before, and he's got a long legacy behind him. If this is the end for him, so be it. What I do think Coughlin is concerned about is his coaches and players. He knows full well, if he goes, a lot of people will lose their jobs and that's tough.
Now, what I'm curious to see is what happens on Black Monday. Traditionally, coaches are let go then and there. However, I want to see what the Giants do. They tend to move pretty slow in their decision making process with the coaches, usually wait a couple of days and then make the move. Part of the Giants decision making will be who is the replacement and will they be better than TC. If the Giants pull the trigger right away, that means they have someone in mind and know he will be available. However, for argument sake, let's say that the Giants are really waiting on Sean Payton. No one knows for sure what the Giants will do, however, I will say that I heard from someone last week who does hear things time to time that the Giants like Payton. Again, take it with a grain of salt, lots of rumors are around. So if the New Orleans thing is unclear and he's the guy they want, you wonder if they don't let TC go until they know what is going on with Payton.
Now, I do think Reese is safe, the Giants will give him an opportunity to hire his coach and go from there. But Mara also is aware of the world around him and perception. There is blame to go around in the front office for this. But if they aren't going to go after the head (Reese), they will go after his lieutenant to send a message that there has to be a fall guy for the talent. It won't be Chris Mara. But it will be Marc Ross.
My guess at all this- TC resigns and takes a place in the front office/consultant. Ross is fired. Reese picks his coach. And that coach will have the decision on which assistants to keep, but the Giants could well recommend that McAdoo stays.
Thanks Matt. Informative as always. I was originally going to comment on the Payton stuff, as I've been of the opinion that it's agent leaks rather than the Giants. But if you think there's smoke, then it's worth re-thinking. I still do think he's headed to Miami via trade or Dallas after Brees retires.
There are absolutely agent leaks. The Saints ownership situation is a soap opera with Benson and his daughters. Add in Brees at 37 and near the end of his contract, and Payton wants out of there. That said, I think there is mutual interest. The question is compensation and availability, which is why I'm interested to see what happens on Monday. If the day goes by and TC is not fired, I think that means the Giants are trying to work something out with New Orleans and/or monitoring. And if nothing comes to pass there, TC stays. Miami also makes a ton of sense for Payton, particularly because the Saints will send him to the AFC. But if Payton wants to jump in and make an immediate impact, the Giants are the team.
Will Saints require compensation for Payton? I can't see Giants shipping high draft choices to New Orleans.
Payton's contract runs through 2017, but contains a "change of control" clause that lets him opt-out if the shit with the Benson family hits the fan. A team could also offer picks if they didn't want to wait.
I think everyone at MetLife was too sanguine about their ability to manufacture quality players out of low drafts picks (Diehl), UDFAs (Seubert) and second tier FAs (O'Hara). With some luck, they were able to build a great line out of those guys plus a premium FA and a high draft pick. For several years, they tried to go the same route aside from Will Beatty, and it didn't work the second time around. They eventually faced up to that and started using top draft picks on Pugh, Richburg and Flowers, but the damage was done.
Also think that what went on with the o-line could be said about several positions.
I guess the line "To me the parallels are not between Fassel and TC" went right past you?