Face-saving way out for everybody. I'm not sure it's a good idea to make him player personnel director, but if there's a good role for him in the executive suite, I could see that.
Bad ideas. You can't promote a guy because you're afraid to fire him.
Coughlin is not this phenomenal evaluator of talent nor is he a development impresario. I don't know where some of you get this from.
He's the guy who thinks Andre Williams is an NFL RB, Markus Kuhn a starting DT, and keeps guys like Herzlich and Dahl to an NFL roster.
Reese has done a poor job but Coughlin has a lot to shoulder too for the sorry state of the roster. I also guarantee Coughlin has more say in player acquisition than people think. The BC and Syracuse connections especially point to that.
Jury is still out. he may do better i na different system. And, if it's just Williams - how come the other RBs have been struggling (until last few games)?
RE: There is merit in keeping him around in the front office
Jury is still out. he may do better i na different system. And, if it's just Williams - how come the other RBs have been struggling (until last few games)?
What system? He beat up on smallish defensive fronts in college where he could overpower at the next level. Not happening here in the NFL. His vision and movement at the point of attack is too one dimensional.
He's a nice guy but he needs to be among the first departures this offseason.
by just running over people. I'm not convinced he can't play in this league. And, it may not be here and I don't think anyone will argue that he's going to a star in this league. But, again - all the rbs have been struggling. Two years in the league behind an Oline than is averaging about 8o yards rushing per game - not enough to write him off, IMO.
lots of whistling past the graveyard here. Some of you want him gone but are shitting your pants that he will end up coaching somewheres else and make you all look like fools.
RE: RE: There is merit in keeping him around in the front office
In what way? It would be uncomfortable for him and for the next HC.
I hadn't really considered that, but I don't think this is a situation where the next coach is afraid of TC coming downstairs and taking the headset. That's not how the Giants operate.
He's got an eye for talent. If he's not ready to retire, they should use it.
lots of whistling past the graveyard here. Some of you want him gone but are shitting your pants that he will end up coaching somewheres else and make you all look like fools.
hahaha....yes, I'll be terrified that he'll do every bit as much of an incredible job of not making the playoffs in Miami as he's done for the better part of a decade here.
I agree about the class issue. And, I think he has too much pride to be handed a position even if it only based in part on facilitating a graceful exit.
I am sure he can walk into countless opportunities the day his tenure ends with the Giants.
I'm way concerned with his replacement than the nature of his exit.
RE: RE: RE: There is merit in keeping him around in the front office
In what way? It would be uncomfortable for him and for the next HC.
I hadn't really considered that, but I don't think this is a situation where the next coach is afraid of TC coming downstairs and taking the headset. That's not how the Giants operate.
He's got an eye for talent. If he's not ready to retire, they should use it.
Maybe it's just me but to me these last two years TC has seemed a little out of it and behind the ball on the demands a coach needs to me. He's still got tons of wisdom and knowledge so I'm not sure a year off in a media type position with one of the networks wouldn't be a good move for him. He'd be great on CBS.
He's still done a good job here. 2005 - 2012 - no losing records (includes 2 8-8 seasons. win percentage in thos e years was 60% - 70% coach = 11 games a year. So good NFL coach would be expected to get 9-10 wins/year. And you cannot talk about his record without the issue of talent being taken into account. He's not faultless for his record, but let's look at everything - and bottom line is winning, and for the most part he's delivered.
" I also guarantee Coughlin has more say in player acquisition than people think."
I've been banging this drum for years. He's had plenty of say in player acquisition, and plenty of time to bail if he wasn't getting the players he wanted. This roster has TC written all over it.
The two guys who coached into their 70s were both guys at the tail end of long, illustrious tenures with the team they retired from. George Halas WAS the Chicago Bears, and Marv Levy coached the Bills for 12 seasons which were easily their most successful stretch ever.
No one has ever hired a coach who was already 70 years old.
Yes, there have been some coordinators and position coaches who have been that old - LeBeau, Kiffin, Emmitt Thomas among others. I could believe someone would hire Coughlin as an assistant, but I don't think he'd ever take such a job.
Between Coughlin the guy who sees hustle and effort at practice and gives those guys shots and the Coughlin who built those teams in Jacksonsville. He likes BIG players on both lines and prefers the 3-4, a strong running game and vertical passing game. If he went upstairs and Reese took scouting over again we'd be fine. Reese is an excellent scout, he's an eyeball guy not a team GM and he is not very adept at identifying NFL talent in the NFL, hence his need for a good pro personnel guy.
Reese is in over his head and Coughlin is stuck coaching parts he would never acquire in most cases. His OLs in jacksonville were massive as were his DL and he had big violent LBs. That is his blueprint and he'd be great in that role again, just not down on the field. He's 70, respected and all that, but I'm guessing that all of his ninny muggins rules do wear on players and take focus off of the game. I understand the concept and agree in parts on the taking care of small stuff and the big stuff works itself out but his litany of rules has to be a drag most of the time. We need a younger head coach in that regard, someone OBJ will want to play for.
I agree if he retires or gets fired it may be time to move on from on him but his ideas on team building are ideal IMO, but once he's on the field he'll give the grinders the chance over and over because they "earn" it in practice. Then in games they suck and he keeps giving them chances. A younger coach won't be so ingrained in that old school way and keep trotting out crap like Kuhn and Williams.
Someone has to go, this is 4 years of crap in a row and we still have a shitty roster. That is on Reese, Ross and Chris Mara and until that unholy triumvirate is exorcised, we are screwed.
I wish there were a way to keep Reese as scouting director
how the Giants treat Tom Coughlin. He's a very respected member of the fraternity. If they treat him badly, that will hurt the next search. So this needs to be handled diplomatically.
Got all that blueprint from Bill Parcells. He liked the same things, and Bill loved Tom, even more then Belichick. But Bill and Tom are more one dimensional then Belichick, he learned to adjust to the league, make adjustments game to game, and make adjustments within the game. Which is why out of the three, he is the best coach. Tom and Parcells are also excellent coaches, no doubt, but Belichick is an all time great. I put him up there with Lombardi and Landry, in fact right between them. Lombardi is the greatest ever, why, he could motivate a person the achieve more then he thought he could. Nobody can do that like that man.
lmao at the notion that Coughlin would have 10 offers tomorrow
lots of whistling past the graveyard here. Some of you want him gone but are shitting your pants that he will end up coaching somewheres else and make you all look like fools.
is certainly a nice gesture, but it does have complications with the new regime. As hard as it is, we need a clean break. The first home game of the Reese era, I am pretty sure I was on a bus from Manhattan with Ernie Accorsi, he went to the game like a fan although I am pretty sure he could have been hovering over the organization. Nobody is saying TC doesn't have class, but class also knows to let the next generation do its job.
I pin one strategic gaff on Reese, the off-season of 2013 season. It put the wheels in motion for everything the last 3 years.
We dragged the corpses of Terrell Thomas, David Diehl, Chris Snee, Corey Webster, Aaron Ross and the semi-corpse of Justin Tuck, Mathias Kiwanuka and Keith Rivers into the season and thought we were on the verge of competing.
Reese violated his stance on letting guys go a year too late than early across the board. And when things got ugly he dragged the corpse of Brand Jacobs and the semi-corpse of Jon Beason out to swing a few games.
Everyone would have understood on the heels of 2 rings in 5 years it was time to clean house, develop younger talent, and start over.
We clogged a roster with tail-end players, got our asses kicked for 6 straight weeks, and basically developed no one. Even if guys like Hosley and Moore were not to pan out, knowing that sooner than later would have been helpful.
The silver lining is we fell ass-backward lucky into OBJ, a player we could have easily selected earlier. Squeezing out 7 wins in that season really set us back.
RE:Joey -.. until that unholy triumvirate is exorcised, we are screwed
I'd really want to see Reese fire Ross and reorganize the staff underneath him (if Reese indeed stays).
Here's an issue, though.........hasn't most of the scouting besides combine stuff already been filed? Meaning Ross and company have completed their evals.
From what I see, the dam guy has a lot more energy than a lot of 50 year olds I know, and probably more than some of the guys who keep bring up his age.
How about we forget the chronicle age when evaluating his status, and focus on his energy and ability to do the job.
Some of you guys seem to think the guy hits 70 and he can't think clearly anymore.
so it's totally coincidental that virtually no one has coached into
but he also assured us that Gilbride would have jobs waiting for him if the Giants let him go and, well, we know how that turned out. If TC gets another job I'll root like hell for him (as long as it's outside the division), but I can't fathom it. When he was on the hot seat a couple years ago I thought Detroit might be a perfect landing spot. Great passing game and talented defensive front - a perfect match for Coughlin. I don't see that same type of circumstance now.
lots of whistling past the graveyard here. Some of you want him gone but are shitting your pants that he will end up coaching somewheres else and make you all look like fools.
He's the guy who thinks Andre Williams is an NFL RB, Markus Kuhn a starting DT, and keeps guys like Herzlich and Dahl to an NFL roster.
Reese has done a poor job but Coughlin has a lot to shoulder too for the sorry state of the roster. I also guarantee Coughlin has more say in player acquisition than people think. The BC and Syracuse connections especially point to that.
To my mind, the Giants' performance and his inability to get them back into the playoffs hurts TC more than getting fired.
And, only a jackass would think less of TC based on whether he was fired or resigned.
In what way? It would be uncomfortable for him and for the next HC.
I could see Coughlin going to help out Belichick in NE in that capacity.
What system? He beat up on smallish defensive fronts in college where he could overpower at the next level. Not happening here in the NFL. His vision and movement at the point of attack is too one dimensional.
He's a nice guy but he needs to be among the first departures this offseason.
Tom is too classy to do that to the next HC. TC would probably want to move around a bit.
I think when he's done coaching the giants, he's in full grandfather mode.
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In what way? It would be uncomfortable for him and for the next HC.
I hadn't really considered that, but I don't think this is a situation where the next coach is afraid of TC coming downstairs and taking the headset. That's not how the Giants operate.
He's got an eye for talent. If he's not ready to retire, they should use it.
hahaha....yes, I'll be terrified that he'll do every bit as much of an incredible job of not making the playoffs in Miami as he's done for the better part of a decade here.
I am sure he can walk into countless opportunities the day his tenure ends with the Giants.
I'm way concerned with his replacement than the nature of his exit.
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In comment 12721594 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In what way? It would be uncomfortable for him and for the next HC.
I hadn't really considered that, but I don't think this is a situation where the next coach is afraid of TC coming downstairs and taking the headset. That's not how the Giants operate.
He's got an eye for talent. If he's not ready to retire, they should use it.
Maybe it's just me but to me these last two years TC has seemed a little out of it and behind the ball on the demands a coach needs to me. He's still got tons of wisdom and knowledge so I'm not sure a year off in a media type position with one of the networks wouldn't be a good move for him. He'd be great on CBS.
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He'll want to continue coaching somewhere..Someone could hire him for a few years..They could do worse
He'll have three offers on his desk 10 minutes after the announcement. There may have already been contacts made to TC's attorney.
Sure, teams will be falling all over themselves to hire a 70 year old coach whose teams have been terrible for years now.
I've been banging this drum for years. He's had plenty of say in player acquisition, and plenty of time to bail if he wasn't getting the players he wanted. This roster has TC written all over it.
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He'll want to continue coaching somewhere..Someone could hire him for a few years..They could do worse
He'll have three offers on his desk 10 minutes after the announcement. There may have already been contacts made to TC's attorney.
Wouldn't be surprised Gene..Happy and healthy new year, my friend
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He'll want to continue coaching somewhere..Someone could hire him for a few years..They could do worse
He'll have three offers on his desk 10 minutes after the announcement. There may have already been contacts made to TC's attorney.
how many coaches have started new jobs at 70?
If he does part ways with the Giants, I'd be surprised if some team rushes out to hire him. If they do, I'll wish him well!
Personally, I just don't think he's a great head coach anymore.
No, 70s
he came back at age 80 to be the GM in Buffalo for 2 years.
No one has ever hired a coach who was already 70 years old.
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He'll want to continue coaching somewhere..Someone could hire him for a few years..They could do worse
He'll have three offers on his desk 10 minutes after the announcement. There may have already been contacts made to TC's attorney.
Bullshit. No onecs hiring a 70-year old coming off 4 losing seasons.
bunch of teams? Are you including local high school and pop warner teams?
Reese is in over his head and Coughlin is stuck coaching parts he would never acquire in most cases. His OLs in jacksonville were massive as were his DL and he had big violent LBs. That is his blueprint and he'd be great in that role again, just not down on the field. He's 70, respected and all that, but I'm guessing that all of his ninny muggins rules do wear on players and take focus off of the game. I understand the concept and agree in parts on the taking care of small stuff and the big stuff works itself out but his litany of rules has to be a drag most of the time. We need a younger head coach in that regard, someone OBJ will want to play for.
I agree if he retires or gets fired it may be time to move on from on him but his ideas on team building are ideal IMO, but once he's on the field he'll give the grinders the chance over and over because they "earn" it in practice. Then in games they suck and he keeps giving them chances. A younger coach won't be so ingrained in that old school way and keep trotting out crap like Kuhn and Williams.
Someone has to go, this is 4 years of crap in a row and we still have a shitty roster. That is on Reese, Ross and Chris Mara and until that unholy triumvirate is exorcised, we are screwed.
Some teams? You mean The NY Giants.
doubt it.
We dragged the corpses of Terrell Thomas, David Diehl, Chris Snee, Corey Webster, Aaron Ross and the semi-corpse of Justin Tuck, Mathias Kiwanuka and Keith Rivers into the season and thought we were on the verge of competing.
Reese violated his stance on letting guys go a year too late than early across the board. And when things got ugly he dragged the corpse of Brand Jacobs and the semi-corpse of Jon Beason out to swing a few games.
Everyone would have understood on the heels of 2 rings in 5 years it was time to clean house, develop younger talent, and start over.
We clogged a roster with tail-end players, got our asses kicked for 6 straight weeks, and basically developed no one. Even if guys like Hosley and Moore were not to pan out, knowing that sooner than later would have been helpful.
The silver lining is we fell ass-backward lucky into OBJ, a player we could have easily selected earlier. Squeezing out 7 wins in that season really set us back.
What a sh*t show of untalented guys on this roster!
I'd really want to see Reese fire Ross and reorganize the staff underneath him (if Reese indeed stays).
Here's an issue, though.........hasn't most of the scouting besides combine stuff already been filed? Meaning Ross and company have completed their evals.
Coughlin should have some kind of role in the organization where he doesn't really have to do much (like an emeritus role)
How about we forget the chronicle age when evaluating his status, and focus on his energy and ability to do the job.
Some of you guys seem to think the guy hits 70 and he can't think clearly anymore.
Doubt he gets another job.