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NYDN: Difference among owners about Coughlin

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/30/2015 6:59 pm
Quote:
There have been several high-level discussions in the Giants organizations over the last few days about what to do after three straight losing seasons and a fourth straight year out of the playoffs. One team source insisted no final decision has been made and that co-owner John Mara would still prefer not to fire Tom Coughlin.

But the source added there are plenty of people inside the front office who believe a coaching change is necessary. It's also believed that co-owner Steve Tisch is in favor of a change. Most people believe that Mara will eventually agree, which is why this week has felt to so many like the End of an Era - moreso for Coughlin than ever before.

Giants ownership divided over future of head coach Tom Coughlin: source - ( New Window )
I like John Mara  
Josh in the City : 12/30/2015 7:02 pm : link
and I love Tom Coughlin. But how can he not realize the time has come?
No decision has been made yet?  
Sean : 12/30/2015 7:03 pm : link
Yikes! That is concerning.
Yeah, I posted last week  
JonC : 12/30/2015 7:03 pm : link
the sense I had was Tisch was ready for a change. His comments within the last few weeks reinforced it.
RE: I like John Mara  
blueblood : 12/30/2015 7:05 pm : link
In comment 12725096 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
and I love Tom Coughlin. But how can he not realize the time has come?


Loyal to a fault. Believe in the man. Knows him personally. He has never fired a head coach. Last hire by his dad. His mother apparently loved Coughlin. Realizes its not ALL his fault. Would rather Tom go out as a winner or retire than being fired...

I believe all of that is a factor.
Well that's reassuring  
Greg from LI : 12/30/2015 7:05 pm : link
The Well-Tim feud of a new generation!

I'm only half kidding. Not thrilled to hear that management might be divided.
If this is true, John Mara is an idiot  
jeff57 : 12/30/2015 7:05 pm : link
Unless he plans on getting rid of Reese instead. And a liar. The unacceptable is acceptable.
could be a  
sundayatone : 12/30/2015 7:07 pm : link
good cop bad cop kinda thing.
Every time I think of Mara and his "ultimatums"  
Bill in UT : 12/30/2015 7:08 pm : link
I think of the joke about the unarmed British Bobby who yelled at the criminal "Stop, or I'll yell "stop" again" Is it a matter of loyalty with him, or is it weakness and indecision?
I anticipate there will be quite a few articles  
BrettNYG10 : 12/30/2015 7:08 pm : link
Detailing the stress and indecision the organization is under while making this decision. And I expect it will take a little while to announce the decision, The Giants took time with Fewell last year, and we heard leaks of wavering before he was let go (not re-signed). Even if the Giants made up their decision weeks ago, I'd expect leaks indicating otherwise.
RE: Every time I think of Mara and his  
jeff57 : 12/30/2015 7:08 pm : link
In comment 12725109 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
I think of the joke about the unarmed British Bobby who yelled at the criminal "Stop, or I'll yell "stop" again" Is it a matter of loyalty with him, or is it weakness and indecision?


Nor an either/or. Probably both.
I mean as  
Josh in the City : 12/30/2015 7:09 pm : link
I've said on numerous thread, I truly believe the biggest issue with this team is Jerry Reese's inability to build a high quality roster so my top preference is to keep Coughlin and fire Reese. I just don't see any way that that happens. And you absolutely cannot keep the status quo.
RE: I anticipate there will be quite a few articles  
Josh in the City : 12/30/2015 7:11 pm : link
In comment 12725114 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Detailing the stress and indecision the organization is under while making this decision. And I expect it will take a little while to announce the decision, The Giants took time with Fewell last year, and we heard leaks of wavering before he was let go (not re-signed). Even if the Giants made up their decision weeks ago, I'd expect leaks indicating otherwise.


This would be a huge mistake. When you're making a change at the top (head coach or GM) it's smarter to make the move as quickly as possible. This is a business and the day our season ends is the day we need to start preparing for the future.
Like Father Like Son  
jpetuch : 12/30/2015 7:11 pm : link
What a travesty
RE: could be a  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/30/2015 7:11 pm : link
In comment 12725108 sundayatone said:
Quote:
good cop bad cop kinda thing.


That was my thought.
If this Eagles game decides whether he's back or not...  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 12/30/2015 7:12 pm : link
this ownership team is lost.
That's not good. If Mara is  
compton : 12/30/2015 7:12 pm : link
conflicted then I can assume that the front office doesn't have a clear grasp of what the problems are and how to fix them. This might portend that the Giants struggles will continue.
Nothing like empty threats at the end of every season!  
Sean : 12/30/2015 7:14 pm : link
.
RE: RE: I anticipate there will be quite a few articles  
BrettNYG10 : 12/30/2015 7:15 pm : link
In comment 12725119 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 12725114 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


Detailing the stress and indecision the organization is under while making this decision. And I expect it will take a little while to announce the decision, The Giants took time with Fewell last year, and we heard leaks of wavering before he was let go (not re-signed). Even if the Giants made up their decision weeks ago, I'd expect leaks indicating otherwise.



This would be a huge mistake. When you're making a change at the top (head coach or GM) it's smarter to make the move as quickly as possible. This is a business and the day our season ends is the day we need to start preparing for the future.


You can meet Monday morning, make a decision, inform TC and plan something later in the week while reaching out to candidates quietely. I wouldn't take a lack of announcement as a sign of indecision.
This is exactly what I figured was happening, and I'm no genius.  
81_Great_Dane : 12/30/2015 7:17 pm : link
John Mara doesn't want to fire TC, for all the reasons mentioned above. His co-owner Steve Tisch, who lacks the sentimental reasons for keeping him, and who comes from the often-cutthroat business of Hollywood filmmaking, is more results-oriented. and wants a shake-up.

It's not hard to see. Mara talks about cleaning house, but doesn't. That can only go on so long.

They could compromise and clean out the front office instead, and possibly even kick TC upstairs, but I doubt this ends with TC still head coach.

For those who remember the end of the Fassel era, this sort of rhymes. Remember that Fassel told Accorsi & the owners that he wasn't getting through to the team anymore. Here's a quote from an ESPN article from 12/29 about Tom Coughlin:

Quote:
The past few weeks have been very trying for Coughlin, who looks like a man who's realizing none of his tricks work anymore. He's still coaching the way he always has -- high-energy, intense focus on task at hand and simple, direct messaging to the players. He is convinced his players are hearing his message, and the players all indicated Sunday night that he's right. The problem is that the work isn't translating to results on the field, and that's what has Coughlin at a loss.

Could Tom Coughlin make it easy on his bosses and walk away? - ( New Window )
good cop bad cop  
bc4life : 12/30/2015 7:20 pm : link
how would that technique be working here?
Can't blame him either  
giantgiantfan : 12/30/2015 7:21 pm : link
I'm fairly conflicted, though from the outside looking in I gravitate towards making the change.
more and more  
fkap : 12/30/2015 7:23 pm : link
my suspicion that the Maras are part of the problem are growing roots.


That's not good. John's going nowhere. Chris?
There has to be consequences. Someone has to go.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 12/30/2015 7:24 pm : link
You can't miss the postseason 4 straight seasons, 6 out of 7, & just continue to endorse the status quo.

I place more of this mess on Reese & I'd fire him, but if you're firing him, just totally clean house. You can't hire a GM and saddle him with a HC.
RE: more and more  
FStubbs : 12/30/2015 7:25 pm : link
In comment 12725137 fkap said:
Quote:
my suspicion that the Maras are part of the problem are growing roots.


That's not good. John's going nowhere. Chris?


I still wonder how much influence Chris has in the front office. Chris is in charge of player evaluation. So if Chris Mara says Player A is worth 88 and Player B is worth 91, who is Reese going to pick?
RE: could be a  
2ndroundKO : 12/30/2015 7:27 pm : link
In comment 12725108 sundayatone said:
Quote:
good cop bad cop kinda thing.

I rarely agree with you but...yeah, clearly. I think the decision has been made.
To be honest, keeping TC doesn't even bother me..  
Sean : 12/30/2015 7:31 pm : link
it's the year to year bullshit with empty threats that does. If you think he's the best man for the job for the final phase of Eli's career, I can respect that, but commit to him then. Give him a 4 year contract and let him turn the program back around.

Forget age, Tom has the energy of a 50 year old. Either commit to him, or don't. Year to year is bad business.
This makes  
Rick5 : 12/30/2015 7:32 pm : link
sense to me. I have been posting for a while that I don't believe Mara would fire TC. I still do not believe they will do it. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Truly amazing...  
EricJ : 12/30/2015 7:35 pm : link
I will wait until I hear the announcement but I was afraid of this. John Mara is asleep at the wheel. If he has trouble delivering the message then he needs to grow a set.

This is not about the Mara's and the Tisch's anymore. The fans deserve better than what the organization has delivered over the past few years. Anything less than a significant change at this point would be unacceptable.
Hard to understand the case for keeping TC  
trueblueinpw : 12/30/2015 7:35 pm : link
I know he didn't loose the team but he's lost plenty of games for three straight seasons. Its time for a change. My only question is whether to fire JR.
You keep TC & Reese...  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 12/30/2015 7:37 pm : link
& you're embracing a status quo of losing. If heads don't roll after these past 3 1/2 seasons, I'm lost.
Sound to me  
Sammo85 : 12/30/2015 7:38 pm : link
Like Reese and Ross are blaming Coughlin and Chris Mara is protecting the guys under him.

Tough situation for Mara and Tisch to sort out together.
I get the feeling that T.C. is going to make this as difficult  
Phil in Joisey : 12/30/2015 7:42 pm : link
as possible for ownership. He's going to ask for another year and does not want to retire on a losing note. He may even go so far as to refuse to retire and make them publicly fire him to ensure a public relations disaster for Mara and Tisch.
Does ownership have any balls? We may soon find out.
wonder if tisch  
sundayatone : 12/30/2015 7:43 pm : link
will join mara at the end of year presser?
RE: You keep TC & Reese...  
Rick5 : 12/30/2015 7:45 pm : link
In comment 12725158 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
& you're embracing a status quo of losing. If heads don't roll after these past 3 1/2 seasons, I'm lost.

Disagree. This pair won two super bowls. Although the recent past has been a mess,there is absolutely nothing written in stone that says they can't be successful again. Cowher had three non-playoff seasons in a row with pittsburgh and was successful again after that.
Hoping Mara sticks to his guns  
Mike in Long Beach : 12/30/2015 7:46 pm : link
.
Soft landing, people  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 12/30/2015 7:48 pm : link
Narrative of nobody wants Tom to go, but it's time for a change. good cap, bad cop looks to be right.
I believe this is in an effort to play nice to Coughlin in the public  
Saos1n : 12/30/2015 7:51 pm : link
Eye...

Mara: I still believe Tom is the man for the job.
Tisch: John, it's time for a change.
Coughlin: I'll step aside.
Also, there's nothing in that article  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 12/30/2015 7:51 pm : link
that is new or should come as a surprise to anyone at this point.
Mara painted himself in a corner  
RetroJint : 12/30/2015 7:51 pm : link
with his bi-polar assessment of the team last off-season. A. Coughlin has to make the playoffs or he is fired. B. We can't expect miracles from Soagnuolo because the defense truly blows. It's impossible to reconcile those two positions. Now, Mara must do it. There is no other decision. Tisch here is working as the igniter . Mara begging for support from the other family, asking to be prodded. Like an adolescent girl continually asking , " Are you sure I look ok?"

Be a man. Finish it. You put your coach through quite a bit of misery these last couple of off-seasons, getting your gut off, with the interviews, personnel assessments and interference with the makeup of Coughlin's staff. So be a man and do it. Better yet watch how Coughlin is handling it and try and emulate, rich boy.
RE: Also, there's nothing in that article  
Big Blue '56 : 12/30/2015 7:54 pm : link
In comment 12725175 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
that is new or should come as a surprise to anyone at this point.


Bobby on target, imv
RE: Soft landing, people  
BrettNYG10 : 12/30/2015 7:55 pm : link
In comment 12725171 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
Narrative of nobody wants Tom to go, but it's time for a change. good cap, bad cop looks to be right.


That's what I meant - well said.
RE: RE: You keep TC & Reese...  
GMenLTS : 12/30/2015 7:57 pm : link
In comment 12725168 Rick5 said:
Quote:
In comment 12725158 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& you're embracing a status quo of losing. If heads don't roll after these past 3 1/2 seasons, I'm lost.


Disagree. This pair won two super bowls. Although the recent past has been a mess,there is absolutely nothing written in stone that says they can't be successful again. Cowher had three non-playoff seasons in a row with pittsburgh and was successful again after that.


Two other teams, Pitt and NE are the only other teams that can claim the same success we've had this past decade. Two. Out of 32.

And the owners are asleep at the wheel...
RE: I believe this is in an effort to play nice to Coughlin in the public  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/30/2015 7:59 pm : link
In comment 12725172 Saos1n said:
Quote:
Eye...

Mara: I still believe Tom is the man for the job.
Tisch: John, it's time for a change.
Coughlin: I'll step aside.


Probably. I wasn't confident they'd do it in past seasons, but I am oddly confident about it now. I think it happens. You can't have the past 4 seasons and the overall record from those seasons and keep everything the same. Can't do it.
RE: RE: RE: You keep TC & Reese...  
BrettNYG10 : 12/30/2015 8:02 pm : link
In comment 12725180 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
In comment 12725168 Rick5 said:


Quote:


In comment 12725158 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& you're embracing a status quo of losing. If heads don't roll after these past 3 1/2 seasons, I'm lost.


Disagree. This pair won two super bowls. Although the recent past has been a mess,there is absolutely nothing written in stone that says they can't be successful again. Cowher had three non-playoff seasons in a row with pittsburgh and was successful again after that.



Two other teams, Pitt and NE are the only other teams that can claim the same success we've had this past decade. Two. Out of 32.

And the owners are asleep at the wheel...


The Giants competitive advantage is their long term perspective, which I think was temporarily lost in the 2013 off-season. I think they have great owners.
it's ashame if trying to run a business  
micky : 12/30/2015 8:04 pm : link
and you let sentimental decisions take precedent over business decisions. That's bad.
Can't argue with a word  
bceagle05 : 12/30/2015 8:04 pm : link
RetroJint said. Mara's done a terrible job these past two years. It all began with those laughable Jerrel Jernigan comments after 2013.
RE: RE: RE: You keep TC & Reese...  
Big Blue '56 : 12/30/2015 8:05 pm : link
In comment 12725180 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
In comment 12725168 Rick5 said:


Quote:


In comment 12725158 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& you're embracing a status quo of losing. If heads don't roll after these past 3 1/2 seasons, I'm lost.


Disagree. This pair won two super bowls. Although the recent past has been a mess,there is absolutely nothing written in stone that says they can't be successful again. Cowher had three non-playoff seasons in a row with pittsburgh and was successful again after that.



Two other teams, Pitt and NE are the only other teams that can claim the same success we've had this past decade. Two. Out of 32.

And the owners are asleep at the wheel...


Lyle simply doesn't lose his fastball...:)
RE: Can't argue with a word  
Big Blue '56 : 12/30/2015 8:05 pm : link
In comment 12725188 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
RetroJint said. Mara's done a terrible job these past two years. It all began with those laughable Jerrel Jernigan comments after 2013.


His comments are innocuous imo
Two things  
djm : 12/30/2015 8:05 pm : link
One - Who cares what Mara said at last year's press conference? Empty threats? He was talking to the media! That's lip service that gets way too much credence from fans and media alike. I'm sure Mara's "word" carries plenty of weight. Trust me no one is going to walk all over Mara least of all coughlin if by some miracle he weren't fired this year. Some of you act like this is high school and Mara is issuing threats to the school yard bully.

Second - you only fire coughlin if you don't think he's part of the solution going forward. You don't fire him to send a message or for punishment.

RE: RE: RE: RE: You keep TC & Reese...  
GMenLTS : 12/30/2015 8:07 pm : link
In comment 12725184 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 12725180 GMenLTS said:


Quote:


In comment 12725168 Rick5 said:


Quote:


In comment 12725158 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& you're embracing a status quo of losing. If heads don't roll after these past 3 1/2 seasons, I'm lost.


Disagree. This pair won two super bowls. Although the recent past has been a mess,there is absolutely nothing written in stone that says they can't be successful again. Cowher had three non-playoff seasons in a row with pittsburgh and was successful again after that.



Two other teams, Pitt and NE are the only other teams that can claim the same success we've had this past decade. Two. Out of 32.

And the owners are asleep at the wheel...



The Giants competitive advantage is their long term perspective, which I think was temporarily lost in the 2013 off-season. I think they have great owners.


Yep. And this isn't to say I'm fully against making a change. I came to terms with the possibility last year and as I said earlier today in a thread, I'm very curious to see what a different coach might be able to do.

But to act like there's this aura of incompetence at the top is hilarious to me. No unexpected, but hilarious nonetheless
***not unexpected  
GMenLTS : 12/30/2015 8:08 pm : link
.
Is this a dual issue?  
old man : 12/30/2015 8:13 pm : link
I agree someone must go,and unless there is a senility issue given TCs odd coaching decisions this year, its not TC for me.
That said,are they in agreement that JR stays?
If so, then JM has to ask TC to retire or be fired, for the good of the organization.
If there is disagreement on JR as well, and I don't know if STs JR is safe was his opinion only, then there may be a mutually inclusive and major pissing 'my guy/your guy' contest making this even worse.
Pretty scary  
ghost718 : 12/30/2015 8:13 pm : link
Mara is reaching a point where people are going to question whether he even cares.

Absolutely, LTS.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/30/2015 8:13 pm : link
I think it's time for a change, but won't think the worst of this franchise if they don't go that way.
RE: Mara painted himself in a corner  
Rick5 : 12/30/2015 8:14 pm : link
In comment 12725177 RetroJint said:
Quote:
with his bi-polar assessment of the team last off-season. A. Coughlin has to make the playoffs or he is fired. B. We can't expect miracles from Soagnuolo because the defense truly blows. It's impossible to reconcile those two positions. Now, Mara must do it. There is no other decision. Tisch here is working as the igniter . Mara begging for support from the other family, asking to be prodded. Like an adolescent girl continually asking , " Are you sure I look ok?"

Be a man. Finish it. You put your coach through quite a bit of misery these last couple of off-seasons, getting your gut off, with the interviews, personnel assessments and interference with the makeup of Coughlin's staff. So be a man and do it. Better yet watch how Coughlin is handling it and try and emulate, rich boy.

Nonsense. Mara should be free to change his mind about anything related to the team at any point in time. You use all of the data you currently have available to make the best decision.
Coughlin will announce his retirement next week.  
NorwoodWideRight : 12/30/2015 8:18 pm : link
This is a done deal. Don't let the reports of the ownership being divided fool you. The writing's on the wall for Tom. I only hope he's given the dignity and goes out with all of the accolades he deserves.
I think most of this is played out for the media  
bigbluescot : 12/30/2015 8:21 pm : link
the decision has been made, the drama is to create a narrative. The narrative helps both Coughlin's legacy and the franchise. The franchise say to any prospective candidate, you perform correctly and do us a solid and if it turns bad we're not the sort of business who'll forget the good and focus on the bad. Only really us, Green Bay and the Steelers, maybe latterly the Ravens have that sort of cred. I don't think prospective HC candidates ignore that sort of thing.

All things being equal, the Giants job should be the most coverted job available this season. At least 3 viable years of a franchise qb, the best young WR in league, and most importantly patient ownership.

It really should come down to who the brass want rather than the prospective candidate choosing.
so is this official?  
micky : 12/30/2015 8:25 pm : link
Mara's decision?
RE: Coughlin will announce his retirement next week.  
Big Blue '56 : 12/30/2015 8:26 pm : link
In comment 12725205 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
This is a done deal. Don't let the reports of the ownership being divided fool you. The writing's on the wall for Tom. I only hope he's given the dignity and goes out with all of the accolades he deserves.



-BBI 2006
I want Coughlin gone  
Vanzetti : 12/30/2015 8:28 pm : link
but I would rather have him back than have some drawn out soap opera.

The decision should already have been made and should be announced Monday.

Coughlin will be back  
xwreckingxcrewx : 12/30/2015 8:33 pm : link
Tisch will not make this decision.
Unless Tisch also believes Reese  
BigBlueCane : 12/30/2015 8:33 pm : link
also needs to go, he should STFU.
RE: I think most of this is played out for the media  
dpinzow : 12/30/2015 8:39 pm : link
In comment 12725210 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
the decision has been made, the drama is to create a narrative. The narrative helps both Coughlin's legacy and the franchise. The franchise say to any prospective candidate, you perform correctly and do us a solid and if it turns bad we're not the sort of business who'll forget the good and focus on the bad. Only really us, Green Bay and the Steelers, maybe latterly the Ravens have that sort of cred. I don't think prospective HC candidates ignore that sort of thing.

All things being equal, the Giants job should be the most coverted job available this season. At least 3 viable years of a franchise qb, the best young WR in league, and most importantly patient ownership.

It really should come down to who the brass want rather than the prospective candidate choosing.


Add a high draft pick and $50 million in cap room and a new HC could win right away
RE: RE: Mara painted himself in a corner  
Bill in UT : 12/30/2015 8:40 pm : link
In comment 12725200 Rick5 said:
Quote:

Nonsense. Mara should be free to change his mind about anything related to the team at any point in time. You use all of the data you currently have available to make the best decision.


Right, and because things went so much better this year than last year, he should be free to walk those comments back
People are freaking out for no reason  
mikeygiants : 12/30/2015 8:42 pm : link
unlike Lurie, if Mara/Tisch were planning on firing/retiring Coughlin I believe that they'd at least give him the final game to make a statement on his career with players in tow.
My take: TC knows he's done.....  
MOOPS : 12/30/2015 8:42 pm : link
and will announce to the team before Sunday's game that he is retiring (if that hasn't been done already). He goes out with honor and the front office is spared having to look like boogie men.
I hope he gets one more shot  
AP in Halfmoon : 12/30/2015 8:42 pm : link
That would be my decision
RE: To be honest, keeping TC doesn't even bother me..  
81_Great_Dane : 12/30/2015 8:45 pm : link
In comment 12725144 Sean said:
Quote:
it's the year to year bullshit with empty threats that does. If you think he's the best man for the job for the final phase of Eli's career, I can respect that, but commit to him then. Give him a 4 year contract and let him turn the program back around.

Forget age, Tom has the energy of a 50 year old. Either commit to him, or don't. Year to year is bad business.
I agree about this. But then you have to revamp the front office. You can't demand improvement, then turn around and say you're standing pat.
RE: I hope he gets one more shot  
Bill in UT : 12/30/2015 8:45 pm : link
In comment 12725236 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
That would be my decision


Didn't you say that last year?
RE: good cop bad cop  
Vanzetti : 12/30/2015 8:50 pm : link
In comment 12725134 bc4life said:
Quote:
how would that technique be working here?


If they are, that is BS. Coughlin deserves better. He is a man. He can take being fired. He is not going to go to pieces. Just make a decision and execute it.
RE: RE: RE: Mara painted himself in a corner  
Rick5 : 12/30/2015 8:59 pm : link
In comment 12725231 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 12725200 Rick5 said:


Quote:



Nonsense. Mara should be free to change his mind about anything related to the team at any point in time. You use all of the data you currently have available to make the best decision.



Right, and because things went so much better this year than last year, he should be free to walk those comments back

Well I don't view it in such a simple way because I don't claim to know how the organization works. Mara knows though. Perhaps he thinks the issue was more talent than coaching and doesn't think the talent issue was largely TC's fault.
I don't think it's good cop-bad cop.  
81_Great_Dane : 12/30/2015 9:03 pm : link
I think John Mara has inherited his father's biggest weakness as a football man: Putting loyalty above everything. Wellington Mara ran the team into the ground in part because he was taking care of the Giants' extended family instead of making some of the tough moves needed to improve the team. It took George Young to come in and shake things up and install a more professional organization.

John Mara appears to be too close with Tom Coughlin to make that tough move.

I know Steve Tisch doesn't get much respect on BBI, but he's in a very results-oriented business, and he may be the guy saying what so many fans are saying on here: The New York Giants have missed the playoffs six out of seven years. There has to be some accountability for that somewhere. If you think Tom Coughlin is the best coach available, then the front office has to go. If you think the front office is sound, then Tom Coughlin has to go. But you can't stand pat in the face of consistent failure.
My take is Eli  
ChathamMark : 12/30/2015 9:08 pm : link
Only have so many years left with a franchise QB. And Beckham too. If you have to make the change, make it now.
Or maybe he doesn't like  
Rick5 : 12/30/2015 9:09 pm : link
what he sees in the pool of potential candidates for next year. There are multiple possible reasons he could have changed his mind (assuming any of this is even factual). Ignoring any new data is generally not a smart decision-making strategy.
If Coughlin  
JoeyBigBlue : 12/30/2015 9:11 pm : link
Is fired along with his entire staff, I really hope Mara fires Reese too. Just swipe the slate clean. Start over with a new GM and coach and tons of cap space.
I'm just still not convinced that making a change at HC  
wigs in nyc : 12/30/2015 9:14 pm : link
means anyhing gets better.
RE: RE: RE: You keep TC & Reese...  
JCin332 : 12/30/2015 9:17 pm : link
In comment 12725180 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
In comment 12725168 Rick5 said:


Quote:


In comment 12725158 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& you're embracing a status quo of losing. If heads don't roll after these past 3 1/2 seasons, I'm lost.


Disagree. This pair won two super bowls. Although the recent past has been a mess,there is absolutely nothing written in stone that says they can't be successful again. Cowher had three non-playoff seasons in a row with pittsburgh and was successful again after that.



Two other teams, Pitt and NE are the only other teams that can claim the same success we've had this past decade. Two. Out of 32.

And the owners are asleep at the wheel...


This 100%...

LTS to me unless you are sure there is an upgrade out there leave TC where he is..

And frankly the only name out there I am intrigued with is John Harbough and he may not even be available..
I think people really dont realize this  
blueblood : 12/30/2015 9:22 pm : link
They need to make a move sooner or later. If you extend Coughlin you delay in inevitable and take another year off Eli's career..
People in the front office - WHO?  
Arkbach : 12/30/2015 9:35 pm : link
Who are these people in the front office that want TC replaced? Let's see, I can think of only John, Steve, Jerry, and Chris. Anyone else has no standing and Reese is a big part of the problem. That leaves three and Reese can't say too much unless he really feels the players he obtained are indeed comparable to the top tier teams or at least within the division. That'll be a tough argument for him. Who are these front office people? There's only four and one is disqualified.
I don't think this has anything to do with loyalty whatsoever  
GMenLTS : 12/30/2015 9:43 pm : link
it's a careful, long term evaluation of what is in the best interest for the NY Giants. The post-season interviews and ultimatums are for fan consumption. The man is much smarter than people give him credit for.

I've been saying it for awhile now, I think he lets TC get one more year, basically, let him finish out his contract. No firing/faux retirement announcement. No one year extension bs, just let him get one more year, both sides understanding as much. Players knowing as much, I doubt we'd want it to be a public knowledge kind of thing but if it is, so be it. I kinda like the idea of a farewell tour. I could see the players playing out of their minds for him in that scenario.

And you prepare a transition plan, either spags or Ben or Sullivan are ready to take over in a year if we do well, or you clean house if we suck again and none of them prove themselves.

The goal in this league is to win SB championships. Plain and simple. Full stop. Period. Mara knows he has a coach who can do this, hell he did it twice. You better be damn sure you're getting someone just as capable when you're ready to let him go.

For some odd reason, people think it's amateur hour in our front office. I'd bet people around the league would find that seriously hilarious.
RE: I think people really dont realize this  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/30/2015 9:47 pm : link
In comment 12725287 blueblood said:
Quote:
They need to make a move sooner or later. If you extend Coughlin you delay in inevitable and take another year off Eli's career..


Exactly. How many more "one more year!" type of shit can they go through? The guy is also 70. It. is. time. to. start. over. Jesus Christ. Eli will be 36 by the time they start over, if they give TC another year. It's beyond ridiculous at this point.
People in the front office - WHO?  
compton : 12/30/2015 9:47 pm : link
Quote:
Who are these people in the front office that want TC replaced? Let's see, I can think of only John, Steve, Jerry, and Chris. Anyone else has no standing and Reese is a big part of the problem. That leaves three and Reese can't say too much unless he really feels the players he obtained are indeed comparable to the top tier teams or at least within the division. That'll be a tough argument for him. Who are these front office people? There's only four and one is disqualified.


I think Reese can very well be one of the persons who is blaming TC and wants him replaced. Reese is not blameless in this mess and may want to deflect some scrutiny from himself to TC.
Don't you think Jon Tisch and Chris Mara have about equal voice  
Ivan15 : 12/30/2015 9:50 pm : link
That makes it 4 votes and Reese is disqualified.

I don't think it matters because, although not FINAL, I think the decision has been made. Discussions now may be how to wrap the fish so it doesn't stink so bad.
Keep moving the Goal Posts for TC  
Rflairr : 12/30/2015 9:54 pm : link
Scared to make the change. Just like the Steelers with Noll
It's time for TC to go. His retirement is a year overdue.  
compton : 12/30/2015 10:01 pm : link
I can't think of one compelling reason, based on the last four seasons, to keep TC. I would give TC more time if I thought that he can correct this sinking ship, but I don't see the team improving if he stays. I think it's time for him to hang it up and call it a career.
OMG - can this be any more dramatic. Not to crap on one of the  
Jimmy Googs : 12/30/2015 10:06 pm : link
best coaches we have ever had, but enough already with the "one more chance". The reports of this being a split decision are to give the organization some cover and save face for TC.

The team needs a re-work.

The players aren't getting it done and many of them will be replaced.

The coaches aren't getting it done and they will be replaced.

Any maybe the front office will be as well.

Wish you a Happy New Year.
...  
yankees78 : 12/30/2015 10:11 pm : link
Hate all of this. It is what it is.
It's easy to play Monday morning owner, but it's not that simple.  
Big Blue '56 : 12/30/2015 10:13 pm : link
It's not just Loyalty..The guy led two of the greatest playoff runs in NFL history, culminating in two incredible SB trophies...

It's not hard to understand how an owner can be torn over this..Mara is a very smart man..Smarter than his Dad imo..Whatever decision he makes will be well thought out..
RE: I'm just still not convinced that making a change at HC  
widmerseyebrow : 12/30/2015 10:15 pm : link
In comment 12725278 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
means anyhing gets better.


This. Fire TC if it makes everyone involved feel better. If the front office remains the same top to bottom this team is doomed to be in the same boat in 2-3 years. Maybe then without Eli.
Time for him to go. Too many mistakes this year.  
yatqb : 12/30/2015 10:15 pm : link
His time has passed. The team loves him, and given their poor performance I'm not sure we need a coach the team loves.
Don't misunderstand. This is a tough decision to effectuate but  
Jimmy Googs : 12/30/2015 10:24 pm : link
it is not a difficult one to come to.
Yat  
xwreckingxcrewx : 12/30/2015 10:29 pm : link
re: the team loves him...what you say would be true if the team is lazy and doesn't work hard...this team isn't that...it does play hard, it just didn't click in a few spots and lacked a lot of defensive talent. I want a coach that a team wants to play hard for - this team has played hard. Not the country club atmosphere that would be true of your statement.
This isn't a cut and dry situation one way or the other  
Go Terps : 12/30/2015 10:31 pm : link
I could write long posts supporting firing Coughlin or keeping him; either position is valid. We are not talking about a competency issue here.

To me this is a comprehensive planning process that has to be undertaken by ownership and the front office:

- What are their short, medium, and long term goals?
- An objective assessment of the current strengths and weaknesses needs to be undertaken. I'm not talking about the roster; I'm talking about how they build it. They've been stronger in some areas (WR, CB, DE) and very weak in others (LB, S, RB, TE). Why are the weak areas weak?
- What is the best way to ensure their roster building process is in line with their established goals?

The question of Eli Manning and his remaining years looms over everything. Clearly that has influenced the decision to bring in McAdoo, and possibly now the decision to retain Coughlin (thereby retaining McAdoo).

There is no right/wrong move here...only different paths.
GmenLTS  
AP in Halfmoon : 12/30/2015 10:32 pm : link
Great posts

AP and LTS  
xwreckingxcrewx : 12/30/2015 10:33 pm : link
make a lot of sense and I feel are close to the reality. Coughlin was closer to being fired last season. He will finish out his contract and retire after next season, completing the three year rebuild. Unfortunately some things didn't bounce right for the team this year- otherwise the improvement would have been celebrated- and there were marked improvements- mainly in specials and offensively- unfortunately- the defensive inability marred everything.
Some people want someone punished  
AP in Halfmoon : 12/30/2015 10:37 pm : link
Mara is asking himself, who is the best coach to get the Giants to the Super Bowl? It's not unreasonable to think it's Coughlin rather than an unknown. I see both sides but would prefer to see Coughlin get one more shot and then turn it over to McAdoo if he's the guy.
RE: Some people want someone punished  
Go Terps : 12/30/2015 10:40 pm : link
In comment 12725426 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
Mara is asking himself, who is the best coach to get the Giants to the Super Bowl? It's not unreasonable to think it's Coughlin rather than an unknown. I see both sides but would prefer to see Coughlin get one more shot and then turn it over to McAdoo if he's the guy.


I agree...the notion of "holding Coughlin accountable" is absurd.
RE: This isn't a cut and dry situation one way or the other  
Mdgiantsfan : 12/30/2015 10:43 pm : link
In comment 12725417 Go Terps said:
Quote:
To me this is a comprehensive planning process that has to be undertaken by ownership and the front office:

- What are their short, medium, and long term goals?
- An objective assessment of the current strengths and weaknesses needs to be undertaken. I'm not talking about the roster; I'm talking about how they build it. They've been stronger in some areas (WR, CB, DE) and very weak in others (LB, S, RB, TE). Why are the weak areas weak?
- What is the best way to ensure their roster building process is in line with their established

I sure hope they have already done this...if they haven't good grief we maybe in trouble.

I have no doubt that this is a difficult decision. As has been discussed, here's a man that has delivered 2 Lombardies, so moving on from him is not an easy decision. My issue is if they are still trying to figure things out or are in the early stages of planning the future, then again we may be in trouble. Given the way the last few seasons have ended, Mara win or else declaration, and the way this season has pretty much taken another nose dive, the leaders of this organization should have foreseen this type of end to the season and planned for it. Again especially given the win or else declaration, someone should have had the planning wheels in motion.
Each day I feel more resolved  
Johnny5 : 12/30/2015 10:56 pm : link
That we owe Tommy some better players and another year.
It was clear Tisch was leaning in this direction from his comments...  
Torrag : 12/30/2015 10:57 pm : link
...earlier in the year. In the end Mara will be the lone voice in the night supporting Tom and he'll eventually acquiesce to the majority.
RE: People in the front office - WHO?  
clatterbuck : 12/30/2015 10:59 pm : link
In comment 12725299 Arkbach said:
Quote:
Who are these people in the front office that want TC replaced? Let's see, I can think of only John, Steve, Jerry, and Chris. Anyone else has no standing and Reese is a big part of the problem. That leaves three and Reese can't say too much unless he really feels the players he obtained are indeed comparable to the top tier teams or at least within the division. That'll be a tough argument for him. Who are these front office people? There's only four and one is disqualified.


Exactly my thought: "Plenty of people in the front office..." As Jerry Seinfeld might say, "who are these people?" How many actually have a say?
RE: more and more  
Boy Cord : 12/30/2015 11:12 pm : link
In comment 12725137 fkap said:
Quote:
my suspicion that the Maras are part of the problem are growing roots.


That's not good. John's going nowhere. Chris?


I'm with you.
you'd be just putting off another year of what is just inevitable  
micky : 12/30/2015 11:16 pm : link
not smart imho. It be nothing new with this franchise though, i lived my youth as a giants fan in the 70's. I guess it goes full circle lol
The decision to fire TC has to be tough on John Mara  
guineaT : 12/30/2015 11:19 pm : link
After Welly died he became his de facto surrogate father. They won two incredibly exciting and rewarding Superbowls together. Factor in Tom was his Dad's last hire as Head Coach and you can see why he may be reluctant to do what is needed or perhaps even slow to recognize Tom's subtle decline.
People, including Mara, who are reluctant about getting rid of TC  
lawguy9801 : 12/30/2015 11:28 pm : link
implicitly assume that this is the same TC from 2007 and 2011. The senility displayed by TC this year puts the lie to that assumption. That coach is gone, and it's time to move on.
'Senility' is an extreme characterization of Tom's ability  
Torrag : 12/30/2015 11:34 pm : link
I agree he has shown some slippage and time will continue it's steady march but that's a bit much isn't it?
RE: RE: more and more  
jcn56 : 12/30/2015 11:34 pm : link
In comment 12725500 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
In comment 12725137 fkap said:


Quote:


my suspicion that the Maras are part of the problem are growing roots.


That's not good. John's going nowhere. Chris?



I'm with you.


So am I. Maybe we can form a club.

Also - I don't think a lot of you guys get 'good cop, bad cop'. They're not trying to beat a confession out of Coughlin, they're trying to decide whether or not he stays. If they wanted him to go out gracefully, they'd ask him to retire to spare both the team and the coach the pain of a firing.
RE: 'Senility' is an extreme characterization of Tom's ability  
lawguy9801 : 12/30/2015 11:37 pm : link
In comment 12725525 Torrag said:
Quote:
I agree he has shown some slippage and time will continue it's steady march but that's a bit much isn't it?


Fine - slippage, senility, whatever you want to call it, it was there this year, and those types of things go in one direction. The TC of the SB years is not the TC we have now. Without in any way diminishing TC's accomplishments, it's time to move on.
RE: AP and LTS  
HomerJones45 : 12/30/2015 11:59 pm : link
In comment 12725420 xwreckingxcrewx said:
Quote:
make a lot of sense and I feel are close to the reality. Coughlin was closer to being fired last season. He will finish out his contract and retire after next season, completing the three year rebuild. Unfortunately some things didn't bounce right for the team this year- otherwise the improvement would have been celebrated- and there were marked improvements- mainly in specials and offensively- unfortunately- the defensive inability marred everything.
add Terps to the list.
RE: People, including Mara, who are reluctant about getting rid of TC  
HomerJones45 : 12/31/2015 12:04 am : link
In comment 12725518 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
implicitly assume that this is the same TC from 2007 and 2011. The senility displayed by TC this year puts the lie to that assumption. That coach is gone, and it's time to move on.
an idiotic post. Amateurs judging a professional who has 10 times more information and 1000 times more experience. Senility? Ridiculous.
I am a huge TC supporter  
Chris684 : 12/31/2015 12:23 am : link
But there has been a noticeable slip in his in-game management.

TC basically taught me (and I'm sure many others) that in order for it to be an illegal forward pass, a player's entire body including all extremities must be passed the line of scrimmage. This lesson came when he correctly challenged that penalty call on the road in Philly in 2008.

I'd argue that up until the last few years TC was the BEST challenge head coach in the sport.

Lately, and I mean no disrespect, he has literally been doing things like getting the red flag stuck in his sock, challenging a difference of two yards, etc.

His mistake in not using his timeouts in New Orleans. That horrendous play call on 3rd down against the Pats. His lack of control on the sidelines with Beckham two weeks ago.

I love the man, but he doesn't seem like the same coach to me lately. Talent is lacking, yes. However, I would agree with the notion that this team is at least 2-3 games better THIS season, if TC executed proper late game management. It was a bad year for him any way you slice it and he has been trending downward for 2-3 seasons now.

If Mara has talked to him about this and feels confident that for whatever reason, TC was not at his best but has identified the reasons why and has a plan for improvement then I guess I am on board. But no more one year at a time.

If TC survives this year then he gets the same commitment as Eli and we go forward through the next 4 years looking for a third title for them together.
RE: Some people want someone punished  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 12/31/2015 6:28 am : link
In comment 12725426 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
Mara is asking himself, who is the best coach to get the Giants to the Super Bowl? It's not unreasonable to think it's Coughlin rather than an unknown. I see both sides but would prefer to see Coughlin get one more shot and then turn it over to McAdoo if he's the guy.


Coughlin had a some head-scratching decisions this season that potentially cost this team, flawed as it may be, a division title. I like TC, but he definitely has slipped as a HC.
Mara has no balls  
Mike Graves : 12/31/2015 7:03 am : link
Plain and simple, this is a guy who said he wanted to fire everyone after the jaguar loss then he said this is a win or else year And here we are again no playoffs, and in a season where this team could not take advantage of a bad division. And he still does not have the balls to make a change, it's disturbing, he is a gutless Liar!!!!!
RE: RE: AP and LTS  
Strip-Sack : 12/31/2015 7:22 am : link
In comment 12725547 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12725420 xwreckingxcrewx said:


Quote:


make a lot of sense and I feel are close to the reality. Coughlin was closer to being fired last season. He will finish out his contract and retire after next season, completing the three year rebuild. Unfortunately some things didn't bounce right for the team this year- otherwise the improvement would have been celebrated- and there were marked improvements- mainly in specials and offensively- unfortunately- the defensive inability marred everything.

add Terps to the list.


I agree with this and It's why I believe they either stick with TC (which, contrary to what most seem to believe...would be the move that shows Mara does indeed have balls) or they go with Mcadoo even if he's not quite ready. At this point, the "off with their heads" noise has gotten so loud that they almost have to fire TC (especially if Tisch is pushing for this as well)....the only compromise is Mcadoo if they believe in the plan and are rightfully concerned about their rapidly closing franchise QB window.
Honestly..,  
2ndroundKO : 12/31/2015 7:24 am : link
I'm surprised how gullible some of you guys are. The decision has been made already. Probably was a couple weeks ago. Now comes the PR campaign. Everything classy, everything to ensure that Coughlin gets the send-off he deserves, starting with the "we really don't want him to go" lead-in.

The team has been in rebuild for a couple years now and this off-season they'll have rid themselves of most of the dead money, accumulated $50m in cap space and will also have a solid draft position. And we struck gold with Beckham. This is Eli's final run. We're going to arm the team in free agency, with a new staff, and give ourselve's a shot at a SB in these next three years.
RE: Mara has no balls  
riceneggs : 12/31/2015 7:45 am : link
In comment 12725642 Mike Graves said:
Quote:
Plain and simple, this is a guy who said he wanted to fire everyone after the jaguar loss then he said this is a win or else year And here we are again no playoffs, and in a season where this team could not take advantage of a bad division. And he still does not have the balls to make a change, it's disturbing, he is a gutless Liar!!!!!


allowing OBJ to self destruct was eye opening to me. i can't think of any high level coach that would've allowed his player to combust like that.

to me, that was a sign of a man who'd lost his fire...his desire to train
If they can't agree  
tomjgiant : 12/31/2015 7:48 am : link
that he should go,how are they going to agree on who will replace him.I think you should have a good idea about that before letting him go.
RE: RE: People, including Mara, who are reluctant about getting rid of TC  
FStubbs : 12/31/2015 8:00 am : link
In comment 12725554 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12725518 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


implicitly assume that this is the same TC from 2007 and 2011. The senility displayed by TC this year puts the lie to that assumption. That coach is gone, and it's time to move on.

an idiotic post. Amateurs judging a professional who has 10 times more information and 1000 times more experience. Senility? Ridiculous.


But yet everyone wants Reese's head on a plate because he's totally incompetent and held TC back from winning 4 or more Superbowls.
RE: RE: I think most of this is played out for the media  
GloryDayz : 12/31/2015 8:17 am : link
In comment 12725230 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 12725210 bigbluescot said:


Quote:


the decision has been made, the drama is to create a narrative. The narrative helps both Coughlin's legacy and the franchise. The franchise say to any prospective candidate, you perform correctly and do us a solid and if it turns bad we're not the sort of business who'll forget the good and focus on the bad. Only really us, Green Bay and the Steelers, maybe latterly the Ravens have that sort of cred. I don't think prospective HC candidates ignore that sort of thing.

All things being equal, the Giants job should be the most coverted job available this season. At least 3 viable years of a franchise qb, the best young WR in league, and most importantly patient ownership.

It really should come down to who the brass want rather than the prospective candidate choosing.



Add a high draft pick and $50 million in cap room and a new HC could win right away


Its not always that simple... the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence, despite the perceptions.

A couple of years ago Chip Kelly was a genius, an innovator, the future of coaching in the NFL... today?

A new HC could deliver better results, I'm not denying that. But dont count on it. I dont have stats but just by observation, I think there are more new HC's that fail than those who succeed.
mara caves to firing tom on  
sundayatone : 12/31/2015 8:18 am : link
one condition, macadoo becomes the HC assuming he nails the interview.far fetched?
Its not one more year...  
Gmanfandan : 12/31/2015 8:28 am : link
If you choose to keep him you need to go all in for the next 3-4 years-no matter the record AND make that statement public.

We're in no position to scare anyone next year (the defense comes to mind... ) so anything that isn't a long term solution should be discounted.

I love what Tom has done for the Giants (being a LONG suffering fan) but I believe it's time to move on.
RE: If they can't agree  
jeff57 : 12/31/2015 8:34 am : link
In comment 12725655 tomjgiant said:
Quote:
that he should go,how are they going to agree on who will replace him.I think you should have a good idea about that before letting him go.


Pistols at 50 paces.

Actually that's a good question. I assume the by laws or agreement provide for some method of breaking the deadlock
seems to me  
bc4life : 12/31/2015 8:36 am : link
if this story is true, they are negligent owners. Both knew that TC's job was in jeopardy. They should have established clear criteria for what would determine their decision. And they should have been communicating all throughout the season re: this issue. What the hell is the Philly game going to tell them that they should not have already figured out?

The decision should already have been made and the search should have started long ago, they should have a very short list of replacements in hand a while ago.

I really hope this story is not true and that they, a few days before the last game of the season, have yet to make this decision. If true, they need to be replaced.
personally  
bc4life : 12/31/2015 8:42 am : link
I think the decisions been made and TC may already know.
RE: seems to me  
jcn56 : 12/31/2015 8:43 am : link
In comment 12725695 bc4life said:
Quote:
if this story is true, they are negligent owners. Both knew that TC's job was in jeopardy. They should have established clear criteria for what would determine their decision. And they should have been communicating all throughout the season re: this issue. What the hell is the Philly game going to tell them that they should not have already figured out?

The decision should already have been made and the search should have started long ago, they should have a very short list of replacements in hand a while ago.

I really hope this story is not true and that they, a few days before the last game of the season, have yet to make this decision. If true, they need to be replaced.


I think that might be a bit of an overreaction.

This story could be true but while not having preempted a coaching search or the development of a list of names. The season isn't over yet - one way or the other, they weren't dismissing Coughlin until the end anyway. Unless this indecision drags on past the end of the season, it really doesn't impact a replacement in any way.
respectfully disagree, they should have a short list in place  
bc4life : 12/31/2015 8:47 am : link
and barring the rules re: tampering should have already reached out.

two teams already are definitely going to be filling an opening - Philly and Miami (IMO).
as I suspected. I surmised about this yesterday.  
Victor in CT : 12/31/2015 8:48 am : link
I hope Tisch is expressing his displeasure about Reese and his staff too.

And please stop the "Mara is a pussy", Mara is stupid", "Mara doesn't care" nonsense. The Giants have a way of doing things, a very measured approach when it comes to major changes. It's worked pretty fucking well for the past 35 years or so. I think he realizes in his heart it's time for Tom to go, but it still can't be easy. Would you rather have Daniel Snyder's approach?

The one time they didn't take that approach was when George Young had his heart set on his favorite academic Ray Handley as the next great HC, rebuffed Parcells offer to ask Coughlin, Belichick and Al Groh to stick around and hastily hired him as Head Coach. How'd that work out?
RE: RE: RE: I think most of this is played out for the media  
riceneggs : 12/31/2015 8:49 am : link
In comment 12725674 GloryDayz said:
Quote:

A couple of years ago Chip Kelly was a genius, an innovator, the future of coaching in the NFL... today?



yea, per ESPN, chip kelly was a genius. no1 outside of ESPN really thought that.

and if Chip had Cam Newton, we'd be talking about the Eagles in a different light.
You might be right but  
bc4life : 12/31/2015 8:50 am : link
I don't understand why the decision would not already be made.

If you were the owner, don't you think you'd know by now?
didn't that measured approach  
bc4life : 12/31/2015 8:53 am : link
prevent TC from getting Greg Williams?

The Hanley thing was a bit different because Parcells left after the season, shortly before the draft yes/no? Not saying that right decision or made the right way but they were under extreme time pressure.
NOT a PR ploy, I think there are legitimate concerns & rightfully so  
GloryDayz : 12/31/2015 8:56 am : link
People dont want to hear about it anymore, but TC & JR won 2 SBs. Thats a fact that despite how ugly things are now, it cant be ignored.

On the other hand there are plenty of HCs who at one point were perceived, or still are perceived as "good HC" that havent won a SB... Fox, John Harbaugh, Andy Reid, Chip Kelly, Fisher, & those are the ones from recent history only. Most, if not all, had very good regular season records, but failed every time in the playoffs. Is that the objective? Divisional titles, followed by losses in the playoffs?

And of course, a promotion from coordinator to HC is probably as much a crap shoot as a draft pick.

With that in mind, and considering the injuries that ended or seriously derailed the careers of key players, and set the team back, its far from black & white as many here seem to think it is.

Honestly, everything considered, I'm as concerned with changes at HC & GM as I am sticking with them and hoping they turn it around.

Mara may not be gun-shy, or loyal to a fault, as some fans think, but he lived through periods when changes after changes didnt really help (70's & 90's). He knows first hand, there are no guarantees.
RE: didn't that measured approach  
Victor in CT : 12/31/2015 8:56 am : link
In comment 12725722 bc4life said:
Quote:
prevent TC from getting Greg Williams?

The Hanley thing was a bit different because Parcells left after the season, shortly before the draft yes/no? Not saying that right decision or made the right way but they were under extreme time pressure.


The Greg Williams who was suspended and is an embarrassment to the NFL? I'd say that was a good miss in the end.

Parcells asked Young repeatedly about it because he wasn't sure if he was coming back. GY rebuffed him.
and another thing about the Giants, whether a decision has been made  
Victor in CT : 12/31/2015 8:58 am : link
or not, they don't show their cards. Every rumor is just that: a rumor.
They already know  
silverfox : 12/31/2015 8:59 am : link
This is all BS. As a courtesy to tom they are not saying anything, but the decision has been made. They can play this out all they want. Anybody with a pulse knows it's over and should have been two years ago. Nothing they've tried, worked including swapping out both coordinators and a huge 2014 FA shopping spree. It's done.
well the Gregg Williams  
bc4life : 12/31/2015 9:17 am : link
"bountygate" issue was unknowable at that time, so, while just plain lucky in that regard - TC was compelled to hire a DC of lesser ability. and, if possible you should always give you subordinates the tools that give them the best opportunity for success.

I agree about this being a rumor, hence my qualification - "if true". What it might speak to is the thinking process of both men, Tisch being more decisive re: the decision.
silverfox  
bc4life : 12/31/2015 9:20 am : link
it's a little more complicated than just coordinators and shopping. The injuries played a major role in this.

He's had a very long run, hopefully they get the decision right re: his replacement.
RE: I am a huge TC supporter  
Jimmy Googs : 12/31/2015 9:50 am : link
In comment 12725575 Chris684 said:
Quote:
But there has been a noticeable slip in his in-game management.

TC basically taught me (and I'm sure many others) that in order for it to be an illegal forward pass, a player's entire body including all extremities must be passed the line of scrimmage. This lesson came when he correctly challenged that penalty call on the road in Philly in 2008.

I'd argue that up until the last few years TC was the BEST challenge head coach in the sport.



I think that was actually Eli who knew the rule and told Coughlin to challenge...

just sayin'
..  
Named Later : 12/31/2015 10:02 am : link
As I said on yesterday's thread -- I'd like to see Tom get another "transition" year, while McAdoo gets more Assistant Head Coach responsibility. Reese is not going to get shown the door. The scouting department needs a shakeup and that should start with Chris Mara & Mark Ross cleaning out their desks. I think the astute fan knows where the problem lies. It's the string of drafts with only 2 or 3 players plus the long list of whiffs in FA.

A major Tell on whether Coughlin still has the Team's attention will be......how does OBJ react to the taunts he will certainly hear from the Eagles DB's ?? I'm sure Lurie has gone to each Eagle player by now -- I think his message is "don't drop this game to the Giants or you're outta here !!"

If OBJ loses his shit.......we know the direction this will surely take.
RE: respectfully disagree, they should have a short list in place  
jcn56 : 12/31/2015 10:04 am : link
In comment 12725712 bc4life said:
Quote:
and barring the rules re: tampering should have already reached out.

two teams already are definitely going to be filling an opening - Philly and Miami (IMO).


That's the thing though, it's the regular season. Short of being on the bench, anyone they'd be interested in is still coaching and can't officially be contacted. And even in the absence of a decision on coughlin, they could still put out feelers 'in the event of a dismissal'.
***NYDN has edited this article***  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/31/2015 10:25 am : link
It now reads:

Quote:
Tom Coughlin said he hasn’t spoken to John Mara about his future, but that talk is surely coming very soon. Because according to a team source there have already been several high-level discussions in the Giants’ front office about Coughlin’s future this week.

And pressure is building for Mara to make the coaching change he never wanted to make.

t’s not known yet if a final decision has been made, but there are several people in the Giants’ front office who believe a change is necessary, according to a team source, and it is believed that co-owner Steve Tisch favors a change, too. Most people inside the organization believe Mara will eventually agree, if he hasn’t already.

That’s why this week has felt to so many like the end of the Coughlin era — moreso than ever before.
RE: RE: Some people want someone punished  
HomerJones45 : 12/31/2015 10:35 am : link
In comment 12725635 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 12725426 AP in Halfmoon said:


Quote:


Mara is asking himself, who is the best coach to get the Giants to the Super Bowl? It's not unreasonable to think it's Coughlin rather than an unknown. I see both sides but would prefer to see Coughlin get one more shot and then turn it over to McAdoo if he's the guy.



Coughlin had a some head-scratching decisions this season that potentially cost this team, flawed as it may be, a division title. I like TC, but he definitely has slipped as a HC.
every one of those positions was logically defensible. Basically it's an argument over when and if the coach should gamble with critiques when gambles didn't work and critiques when gambles weren't taken- and the critics had the luxury of knowing the result before making the critique.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/31/2015 10:55 am : link
I don't think Coughlin has ever had tremendous in-game awareness. It seems like he's historically made decisions on gut feel and not real analysis.

I won't blame him for any loss - they are team efforts. But he has tilted the probabilities against us pretty consistently this year and he has done so in the past, but often been saved by Eli's heroics.
so Reese wins  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/31/2015 11:50 am : link
he gets rid of the coach he didnt hire, and gets to hire his own guy, despite the fact that he has NOT demonstrated that he can draft consistently well, bad times may be coming
RE: Mara painted himself in a corner  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/31/2015 11:52 am : link
In comment 12725177 RetroJint said:
Quote:
with his bi-polar assessment of the team last off-season. A. Coughlin has to make the playoffs or he is fired. B. We can't expect miracles from Soagnuolo because the defense truly blows. It's impossible to reconcile those two positions. Now, Mara must do it. There is no other decision. Tisch here is working as the igniter . Mara begging for support from the other family, asking to be prodded. Like an adolescent girl continually asking , " Are you sure I look ok?"

Be a man. Finish it. You put your coach through quite a bit of misery these last couple of off-seasons, getting your gut off, with the interviews, personnel assessments and interference with the makeup of Coughlin's staff. So be a man and do it. Better yet watch how Coughlin is handling it and try and emulate, rich boy.


good post
Of Course  
Torn Tendon : 12/31/2015 12:17 pm : link
Front Office people are saying it's time for a new coach. Because if blame doesn't fall on the coach, the owners will start looking at them. It's a big problem if the front office people truly feel that they've given Coughlin sufficient talent to win.
RE: ***NYDN has edited this article***  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 12/31/2015 2:14 pm : link
In comment 12725847 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It now reads:



Quote:


Tom Coughlin said he hasn’t spoken to John Mara about his future, but that talk is surely coming very soon. Because according to a team source there have already been several high-level discussions in the Giants’ front office about Coughlin’s future this week.

And pressure is building for Mara to make the coaching change he never wanted to make.

t’s not known yet if a final decision has been made, but there are several people in the Giants’ front office who believe a change is necessary, according to a team source, and it is believed that co-owner Steve Tisch favors a change, too. Most people inside the organization believe Mara will eventually agree, if he hasn’t already.

That’s why this week has felt to so many like the end of the Coughlin era — moreso than ever before.



Which means the headline was even more misleading.
....  
Unemployable : 12/31/2015 2:56 pm : link
This Mara is full of empty threats. What an asshole. I guess he doesn't care that much about HIS franchise. He must want his own version on "the dark days". This guy needs to wake the fuck up and stop the bullshit.
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