If Gruden ever came back. He's making plenty of money while being around the game he loves.
Only difference with this is it's not an everyday thing so he gets to spend time with his family. Doesn't have to be at a team facility at 4am like he did with Tampa. Doesn't have to deal with the stress of being an NFL coach.
If Gruden ever came back. He's making plenty of money while being around the game he loves.
Only difference with this is it's not an everyday thing so he gets to spend time with his family. Doesn't have to be at a team facility at 4am like he did with Tampa. Doesn't have to deal with the stress of being an NFL coach.
I believe he's stated that he likes the person he is sans the NFL pressure. He said he looks back at some of the film of him on the sideline and training field and he thinks that guy was heading for an early grave.
I would not discount the possibility. Same with Cowher.
This is a very attractive job.
You do realize both gruden and cowher are not viable candidates
Being out of NFL 5 years is like being out of football for 50 years
Why? Were both guys living in a cave for the past five years and haven't watched the sport at all?
Personally, I like Shaw but I wouldn't be mad at Cowher or Gruden. Better than a lot of other options out there. But pretty much every name out there will be in play for the Giants job if it becomes available.
I doubt Gruden's going to want to face his brother
but I felt that Gruden was extra hard on Coughlin's decision making on MNF against the Dolphins. Gruden is normally quite respectful to coaches like TC but I felt that he was staying on that topic throughout the telecast. It crossed my mind that Gruden was lobbying for the job. He has more class but it did cross my mind.
He is a damn good coach, and he has a defensive tilt which we need. Just leave McAdoo alone to keep improving the offense.
Gruden coached the offensive side.
Yes he did coach offense, you're right. I made this statement because I always thought his defenses were very good, at Oakland but specially at Tampa. Even in his bad years there they played tough D. He did a great job at Oakland, taking them from crap to 12-4. At Tampa, he won the division numerous times and of course won the SB.
I do not believe Cowher would succeed as HC of the Giants.
I'd be happy to be wrong about that if they choose him.
He will make a lot of BBI happy, though, because he'll look really mad and intimidating on the sideline. He will have a lot to be mad about, but boy, he'll give you a satisfying, cathartic grimace.
don't think it will be Cowher or Gruden. I don't think the Giants are interested, and I don't think they're interested in the Giants. McAdoo is more likely.
was a done deal last year when Spagnuolo came back as DC. Had the feeling this was TC last iry at another Super Bowl after Snee retired and most of his vets were also gone including Gilbride. Spagnuolo is very well regarded by this organization and deserves another chance at the HC job with a team like the Giants and a QB like ELI.
makes me laugh. People forget that the year prior to his winning the SB they were considering firing him. He is not that good a coach...
yeah, TC with 2 SBs, a .533 winning percentage and 12-7 postseason is a great coach, but Cowher, with 1 SB, a .623 winning percentage and 12-9 postseason, is a POS.
RE: You can't be out of football as long as Cowher and Gruden have been
and come back- the energy, drive, desire, knowledge...just won't be there.
Ya ok, they know nothing of football anymore. They never watch games or have close contact with teams due to their broadcasting positions. They are now oblivious to the fact is now a pass dominated game and they need to go back to high school coaching.
is a special coach- who had to leave because he was already a workaholic and burnt himself out. You could argue that when he came back, his energy was where it should have been during his first stint.
But, yes, you are right. But, again, there haven't been too many Vermeils.
I know that they know football- but its the little details- plus, dealing with players, media, etc. have all evolved and changed...just a lot to catch up with. But, yes, it could be done, just think that it isn't as easy as it might seem.
RE: RE: RE: I cannot shake the vision I have that...
I don't think cowher or gruden, especially gruden, are legit candidates but I'd give cowher a chance. I don't think there's a chance in hell that gruden comes here or that the Giants even have any interest.
I don't necessarily love Garrett but I did like him when he was hired in Dallas. He checks off a lot of boxes on a resume. Good football mind. Thing is during his tenure in Dallas we know his teams have been up and down and it just seems like everything has to be just right for Dallas to have any legit success, which typically stands as an indictment on the head coach. But there is something sneaky good and appealing about bringing Garrett here. He's probably been neutered in Dallas with jerry's agenda.
if Trent Green (and another QB, I think it was Tony Banks) had not gotten injured. Green was a JAG...it was Kurt Warner who made that team "The Greatest Show on Turf". Vermeil had NO idea how good Warner was, he had him listed as #3, and nearly was in tears when he announced Warner as the starter in his Press Conference.
I think a lot of the Cowher talk comes from the Rooney/Mara connections. Certainly at one point Cowher may have floated out some feelers (via Jerome Bettis) about the Giants job, but that was a while ago. That might have not left a good taste with the Giants FO (my speculation), as he stopped it pretty quick.
is a guy who commands respect right off the bat. There aren't many candidates who can do that, but Cowher is one of them, I think.
We have below-average talent, and that won't change overnight. But if the rebuild has to include a HC winning over players who are used to Coughlin, then it could be years before the team turns around.
Vermiel got to a Super Bowl with the Eagles, came back years later and won one with the Rams.
No other coach has won a Super Bowl after leaving the first team he got to a Super Bowl with.
On the other side of the ledger:
The following Super Bowl winning coaches got back to a Super Bowl after leaving the team they won their first ring with:
Bill Parcells (lost Super Bowl with New England Patriots; no Super Bowl appearance with New York Jets, Dallas Cowboys)
Mike Holmgren (lost Super Bowl with Seattle Seahawks, though he got jobbed by the refs)
The following coaches never got back to a Super Bowl after leaving the team they got their first ring with:
Hank Stram (New Orleans Saints)
Tom Flores (Seattle Seahawks)
Joe Gibbs (2nd time around with Washington)
Mike Shanahan (Washington)
History suggests that hiring a former Super Bowl winning coach like Gruden or Cowher is NOT the way back to a championship. There's a first time for everything, but I don't think Cowher or Gruden will win another ring in the NFL.
Mcadoo....it may be premature but it also makes the most sense.
Agreed, the rumor was that he was highly regarded by the front office and this would be the safe transitional move which is a hallmark around Giantland.
is a special coach- who had to leave because he was already a workaholic and burnt himself out. You could argue that when he came back, his energy was where it should have been during his first stint.
But, yes, you are right. But, again, there haven't been too many Vermeils.
Agree, other than Gibbs can't think of another. Vermeil alot better coach and innovator than Cowher. If we're making a change, don't understand the fascination with a 60something old school coach whose been out of the game for years. Give me a guy whose passion is to coach. But yes he'll look tough and do a great job in making OBJ a great down field blocker!!!
With 50 million in cap room and high draft picks...it can be fixed quickly
So, let me ask you this then. If it could be fixed quickly then why hasn't this group we have been able to fix it over the past few years? We were also under the cap this past season and where did that get us? We had extra cap money and knowing we had a problem with the O-line and D-line.... Reese and his crew did not react quickly did they?
With 50 million in cap room and high draft picks...it can be fixed quickly
So, let me ask you this then. If it could be fixed quickly then why hasn't this group we have been able to fix it over the past few years? We were also under the cap this past season and where did that get us? We had extra cap money and knowing we had a problem with the O-line and D-line.... Reese and his crew did not react quickly did they?
Did we have 50 million in cap room this past year or the year before that?
Did we not address the o line with 3 good draft picks the past 3 years?
D line is a different story
But again, we have more cap room than we have ever had.
Just having a ton of money to spend doesn't mean we'll definitely spend it. Nor should it mean that. The last thing we should be doing is blowing money on marginal players just because we have it to blow.
Did we have 50 million in cap room this past year or the year before that?
Did we not address the o line with 3 good draft picks the past 3 years?
D line is a different story
But again, we have more cap room than we have ever had.
Let's see if the FO can capitalize on it
Will answer each...
NO, we did not have that much cap room but we had cap space that we did not spend.
yes we picked an O-lineman in the past three drafts. However, Pugh has been a disappointment and the O-line was a disappointment last year with both Pugh and Richburg on it. The thought that just adding another rookie was sufficient is not realistic. Richburg I like. But like I said Pugh has played more like Pew and it was too much to ask Flowers to be the savior. We still have holes on this line.
I am not confident in this front office right now. Not feeling like they can bring in quality free agents vs shopping at Walmart.
he is extremely hard on and demanding of his QBs. He will either make Eli better or will make him cry.
Make him cry? Early lead for dumbest statement of the year. congrats.
Agreed. Coughlin could've been an idiot and wrecked Eli's confidence early in his career, but he knew how not to do that. A new coach would have to be an even bigger idiot to risk alienating Eli. He could easily lose the whole team.
Did we have 50 million in cap room this past year or the year before that?
Did we not address the o line with 3 good draft picks the past 3 years?
D line is a different story
But again, we have more cap room than we have ever had.
Let's see if the FO can capitalize on it
Will answer each...
NO, we did not have that much cap room but we had cap space that we did not spend.
yes we picked an O-lineman in the past three drafts. However, Pugh has been a disappointment and the O-line was a disappointment last year with both Pugh and Richburg on it. The thought that just adding another rookie was sufficient is not realistic. Richburg I like. But like I said Pugh has played more like Pew and it was too much to ask Flowers to be the savior. We still have holes on this line.
I am not confident in this front office right now. Not feeling like they can bring in quality free agents vs shopping at Walmart.
Richburg played out of position due to the Schwartz injury...but this year he was great
Pugh was hurt all year last year, but did a very good job at guard.
Yes,can still have holes all over the place...but if the $$$$ is spent wisely it can be fixed quickly
This is a year to year league and with a little luck, better health and another good draft this can easily be a playoff team next year.
As for the front office...you and I agree. Reese is the reason we are in this mess...unfortunately it seems like Coughlin will have to take the fall for JR's failures
makes me laugh. People forget that the year prior to his winning the SB they were considering firing him. He is not that good a coach...
Not advocating for Cowher as I think he's probably lost his edge being away for so long but to say he's not that good a coach is ridiculous. His career record is 149-90. Won one Super Bowl, got to another. Won 8 divisional titles. Yes he lost a bunch of AFC championship games but that means he got his team to a bunch of AFC championship games. If people are holding out for a replacement with a better resume than that, good luck.
The big Practical issue is the ability Cowher or Gruden to fill a Staff.... or to be an asset in attracting a staff. Do they retain active Coaching Networks?
Yes he has absolutely been a disappointment based upon where we drafted him and what our expectations were for him.
We thought we were drafting a tackle in the first round and ended up with a guy who is just "OK" playing guard I would say the same thing about Prince. Not playing like a first round pick.
Yes he has absolutely been a disappointment based upon where we drafted him and what our expectations were for him.
We thought we were drafting a tackle in the first round and ended up with a guy who is just "OK" playing guard I would say the same thing about Prince. Not playing like a first round pick.
Well WE didnt draft anyone.. The Giants did.. and the Giants drafted a player that they felt could play multiple positions on the line, including center. He is playing guard and actually he is playing guard pretty well considering he is playing next to a rookie left tackle..
Pfffft. He's playing a position he's never played. Next to a rookie left tackle and a second year player playing his first year in the nfl as a center. So he's basically bookended by two rookies. And he's played very well.
He's been their best offensive lineman. Yet according to your genius analysis and experience, he's not played well.
I look forward to your next opus on offensive line play. Thanks in advance.
he is extremely hard on and demanding of his QBs. He will either make Eli better or will make him cry.
Holy shit. Make him better or make him cry?
You just watch football right, I'm guessing.
You've never actually been a part of a team right?
Stick to fantasy football. For fuck sake.
What's with the idiocy lately? Is this a sign of things to come in 2016?
Two things...
First, my comment about Gruden was simply about Gruden and not Eli. The point is that he is extremely hard on QBs and has little patience with them. If you know anything about Gruden then you would understand what I mean. Again... this has nothing to do with Eli.
Second, your comments here about me and others are exactly what was discussed in an earlier thread this week about this site. You cannot simply disagree with someone without making personal attacks.
Your comment about Gruden and QBs is completely moot because he's never coached a QB like Eli. Rich Gannon and Jeff Garcia? Gtfoh with that second rate bullshit. Any speculation on a potential relationship with Eli is horseshit.
Personal attacks? Nope. Just attacking the idiocy and moronic ramblings of fuckwits. I fight the good fight pal.
the front office is dysfunctional yet people think this is a great job
Your comment about Gruden and QBs is completely moot because he's never coached a QB like Eli. Rich Gannon and Jeff Garcia? Gtfoh with that second rate bullshit. Any speculation on a potential relationship with Eli is horseshit.
Personal attacks? Nope. Just attacking the idiocy and moronic ramblings of fuckwits. I fight the good fight pal.
Well everywhere Gruden has been (even as an assistant) he has been rough on his QBs. He has his QB camp too so his particular expertise is with QBs. It is what it is and that is what my point was. You can call it idiocy if you want but it is the truth.
BTW, I actually think he would be good for Eli
RE: B, you truly think Pugh's performed better than Richburg?
At LG? Absolutely. Given the fact that he's bookended by technical rookies.
Greg. I'm telling you. That left side of the line is in great hands moving forward as long as the Giants can secure the RT (yes RT) position. Think about that for a second.
RG and RT - doesn't have to be both. But upgrade one of them and you've got a very solid OL next year. I'm not sure Schwartz is the guy but when he's on, he's pretty good at that G spot. Add some depth and work in a big package and we will see great stuff next year.
Your comment about Gruden and QBs is completely moot because he's never coached a QB like Eli. Rich Gannon and Jeff Garcia? Gtfoh with that second rate bullshit. Any speculation on a potential relationship with Eli is horseshit.
Personal attacks? Nope. Just attacking the idiocy and moronic ramblings of fuckwits. I fight the good fight pal.
Well everywhere Gruden has been (even as an assistant) he has been rough on his QBs. He has his QB camp too so his particular expertise is with QBs. It is what it is and that is what my point was. You can call it idiocy if you want but it is the truth.
BTW, I actually think he would be good for Eli
Eric. Come on. He played QB. Be more simplistic. Shit.
Simply because I'm tired of waiting on guys who are always injured to stay healthy.
To my admittedly untrained eye, I saw more impressive plays from Richburg than Pugh, but I can't say I know a ton about OL technique and responsibilities.
RE: RE: B, you truly think Pugh's performed better than Richburg?
I've thought Richburg has been a bit more consistent than Pugh. Big fan of both, though.
Different contexts when you consider the line personnel though Brett.
It's never about one guy. It never will be. You can hide it to a point with split differential maybe thru high school but the fact remains that it's all about the unit. Unless you've played it or coached it at an advanced level it is very difficult to grasp based on all of the variables.
And I'm a really big Richburg fan. The dude is a fuckin horse out there and he's one of the best C I've seen on space in a very long time. He's a keeper for sure.
Simply because I'm tired of waiting on guys who are always injured to stay healthy.
To my admittedly untrained eye, I saw more impressive plays from Richburg than Pugh, but I can't say I know a ton about OL technique and responsibilities.
Greg, they're both good. I think Richburg will end up being better. But as a tandem they can be dominant. That's the key.
In the words of Carl Banks, he was a victim of a player holding the team hostage.
Give me a talented and eager guy like Hart at his age over a high-priced FA with miles and injuries in his resume all day every day. I can coach him up with his unit to well surpass the aged vet. With all due respect of course.
Just having a ton of money to spend doesn't mean we'll definitely spend it. Nor should it mean that. The last thing we should be doing is blowing money on marginal players just because we have it to blow.
I do believe Mara mentioned the Giants weren't too impressed with last year's crop of free agents so didn't sign many. Doubt they overpay for mediocre being they didn't last year.
No one is impressed with the Giants FA either. Fact is with the failure to develop 2011 and 2012 players, they will need to sign more FA then they would like.
with the current front office. You can go ahead and write that one down.
They'll blow their money either on another CB or a free agent safety.
If they think that's a huge need they'll go after him as they did gor another huge need, McCourty(he re-signed with the Pats for less)...The bigger question is whether or not Glenn winds up on IR..,:(
I've thought Richburg has been a bit more consistent than Pugh. Big fan of both, though.
Different contexts when you consider the line personnel though Brett.
It's never about one guy. It never will be. You can hide it to a point with split differential maybe thru high school but the fact remains that it's all about the unit. Unless you've played it or coached it at an advanced level it is very difficult to grasp based on all of the variables.
And I'm a really big Richburg fan. The dude is a fuckin horse out there and he's one of the best C I've seen on space in a very long time. He's a keeper for sure.
Thanks - it's kind of easy to identify Walter Jones as a good offensive linemen and John Jerry as a bad one - but the nuances of the position escape plebes like myself.
Has passed them by argument from BBI'ers, now they are people that would know that right, who else and where else would that information be available.
The question on if they could still coach as far as knowing the game is not a question with anyone who has a fucking brain. The question on them coming back is on them. It's the EFFORT and TIME that goes into the job that is the problem, these guys burn out for a reason, it is so fucking hard! But an idiot from his couch will tell us all the game has passed then by. It is becoming a joke to listen to this stuff.
I would not discount the possibility. Same with Cowher.
This is a very attractive job.
You do realize both gruden and cowher are not viable candidates
Being out of NFL 5 years is like being out of football for 50 years
Dick Vermeil - retired from the Eagles in 1982. He took the Eagle to a SB (lost to the Raiders). Came back to coaching (for the Rams) in 1997 (that's 15 years) and WON THE SUPERBOWL in 1999. It can be done - a good HC is a good HC - I don't care how much time goes by.
However - I can't see either one of those guys (Gruden or Cowher) - leaving their multi-million jobs to get back into the grind of the NFL (unless they have a serious itch that needs to be scratched) even if they are offered the job - they have to get past their wives (who will kill them). : )
Cowher's wife died a few years ago. It is likely her illness is what understandably kept him away from coaching for so long.
I know that ....(I think it was more than a few years ago - wasn't he still coaching when she died? I just assumed he re-married? Maybe I should not assume. : )
This is a very attractive job.
Only difference with this is it's not an everyday thing so he gets to spend time with his family. Doesn't have to be at a team facility at 4am like he did with Tampa. Doesn't have to deal with the stress of being an NFL coach.
Gruden? Hell no!
Only difference with this is it's not an everyday thing so he gets to spend time with his family. Doesn't have to be at a team facility at 4am like he did with Tampa. Doesn't have to deal with the stress of being an NFL coach.
I believe he's stated that he likes the person he is sans the NFL pressure. He said he looks back at some of the film of him on the sideline and training field and he thinks that guy was heading for an early grave.
This is a very attractive job.
You do realize both gruden and cowher are not viable candidates
Being out of NFL 5 years is like being out of football for 50 years
Quote:
I would not discount the possibility. Same with Cowher.
This is a very attractive job.
You do realize both gruden and cowher are not viable candidates
Being out of NFL 5 years is like being out of football for 50 years
Why? Were both guys living in a cave for the past five years and haven't watched the sport at all?
Personally, I like Shaw but I wouldn't be mad at Cowher or Gruden. Better than a lot of other options out there. But pretty much every name out there will be in play for the Giants job if it becomes available.
Why, Bc the game hasn't changed at all since either were in the league?!
Come on -I know this is your site but it's hard to take anyone seriously who thinks cowher or gruden would be candidates
Let's get rid of our 70 year old coach bc the game has passed him by but let's interview 60 year olds who haven't been in league for years?!?!
How does Gruden have a defensive tilt? He's an offensive guy.
Gruden coached the offensive side.
All that said, I would not complain if Gruden was the HC, he would be an exceptionally good fit.
Shaw from Stanford is still my first choice though. Enjoying what his team is doing to Iowa right now.
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No, I don't realize that.
Why, Bc the game hasn't changed at all since either were in the league?!
Come on -I know this is your site but it's hard to take anyone seriously who thinks cowher or gruden would be candidates
Let's get rid of our 70 year old coach bc the game has passed him by but let's interview 60 year olds who haven't been in league for years?!?!
How did that work out for Vermeil...Einstein?
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He is a damn good coach, and he has a defensive tilt which we need. Just leave McAdoo alone to keep improving the offense.
Gruden coached the offensive side.
And the advantage for Eli and the offense is that very little would change
Didn't that happen to Coughlin, twice?
Gruden and Cowher's layoff concern me. There's Dick Vermeil and then there is joe Gibbs.
Probably not too many would agree with me here, but if Garrett broke loose, I'd be ok with that..
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He is a damn good coach, and he has a defensive tilt which we need. Just leave McAdoo alone to keep improving the offense.
Gruden coached the offensive side.
Yes he did coach offense, you're right. I made this statement because I always thought his defenses were very good, at Oakland but specially at Tampa. Even in his bad years there they played tough D. He did a great job at Oakland, taking them from crap to 12-4. At Tampa, he won the division numerous times and of course won the SB.
He will make a lot of BBI happy, though, because he'll look really mad and intimidating on the sideline. He will have a lot to be mad about, but boy, he'll give you a satisfying, cathartic grimace.
Don't discount the possibility that he is auditioning for the NFL today.
Worked out pretty well for Dick Vermeil didn't it?
yeah, TC with 2 SBs, a .533 winning percentage and 12-7 postseason is a great coach, but Cowher, with 1 SB, a .623 winning percentage and 12-9 postseason, is a POS.
Ya ok, they know nothing of football anymore. They never watch games or have close contact with teams due to their broadcasting positions. They are now oblivious to the fact is now a pass dominated game and they need to go back to high school coaching.
If Cowher doesn't come back now he never is.
But, yes, you are right. But, again, there haven't been too many Vermeils.
I think I'd be ok with this.
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the next coach of the Giants will be Jason Garrett.
I think I'd be ok with this.
That's the first time I've heard anyone suggest that. I don't see Jerry firing him, but I'd be OK with him.
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In comment 12727861 Chris in Philly said:
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the next coach of the Giants will be Jason Garrett.
I think I'd be ok with this.
That's the first time I've heard anyone suggest that. I don't see Jerry firing him, but I'd be OK with him.
Garrett signed a $30 million contract one year ago. He isn't going anywhere.
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No, I don't realize that.
Why, Bc the game hasn't changed at all since either were in the league?!
Come on -I know this is your site but it's hard to take anyone seriously who thinks cowher or gruden would be candidates
Let's get rid of our 70 year old coach bc the game has passed him by but let's interview 60 year olds who haven't been in league for years?!?!
It has nothing to do with age for fucks sake. Stop.
This is flat out false.
Go check cowher's lifetime record. The guy did a great job in Pitt. He went 15-1 the year before they won the bowl he wasn't at risk of being fired.
Some great insight on this thread along with some wtf.
Don't Einstein me. Did parcels succeed when he came back? How about Gibbs but sure lets bring back people who haven't coached in decades. Sure
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In comment 12727840 Eric from BBI said:
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No, I don't realize that.
Why, Bc the game hasn't changed at all since either were in the league?!
Come on -I know this is your site but it's hard to take anyone seriously who thinks cowher or gruden would be candidates
Let's get rid of our 70 year old coach bc the game has passed him by but let's interview 60 year olds who haven't been in league for years?!?!
How did that work out for Vermeil...Einstein?
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In comment 12727856 rdt288 said:
Don't Einstein me. Did parcels succeed when he came back? How about Gibbs but sure lets bring back people who haven't coached in decades. Sure
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In comment 12727840 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
No, I don't realize that.
Why, Bc the game hasn't changed at all since either were in the league?!
Come on -I know this is your site but it's hard to take anyone seriously who thinks cowher or gruden would be candidates
Let's get rid of our 70 year old coach bc the game has passed him by but let's interview 60 year olds who haven't been in league for years?!?!
How did that work out for Vermeil...Einstein?
Parcels did fine with Dallas....remember he built that team that was the number 1 seed in 2007
Gibbs no so much.
But Vermeil did great....
But to think that either Cowher or Gruden would be DOA is just flat out stupid
I don't necessarily love Garrett but I did like him when he was hired in Dallas. He checks off a lot of boxes on a resume. Good football mind. Thing is during his tenure in Dallas we know his teams have been up and down and it just seems like everything has to be just right for Dallas to have any legit success, which typically stands as an indictment on the head coach. But there is something sneaky good and appealing about bringing Garrett here. He's probably been neutered in Dallas with jerry's agenda.
I think a lot of the Cowher talk comes from the Rooney/Mara connections. Certainly at one point Cowher may have floated out some feelers (via Jerome Bettis) about the Giants job, but that was a while ago. That might have not left a good taste with the Giants FO (my speculation), as he stopped it pretty quick.
We have below-average talent, and that won't change overnight. But if the rebuild has to include a HC winning over players who are used to Coughlin, then it could be years before the team turns around.
No other coach has won a Super Bowl after leaving the first team he got to a Super Bowl with.
On the other side of the ledger:
The following Super Bowl winning coaches got back to a Super Bowl after leaving the team they won their first ring with:
Bill Parcells (lost Super Bowl with New England Patriots; no Super Bowl appearance with New York Jets, Dallas Cowboys)
Mike Holmgren (lost Super Bowl with Seattle Seahawks, though he got jobbed by the refs)
The following coaches never got back to a Super Bowl after leaving the team they got their first ring with:
Hank Stram (New Orleans Saints)
Tom Flores (Seattle Seahawks)
Joe Gibbs (2nd time around with Washington)
Mike Shanahan (Washington)
History suggests that hiring a former Super Bowl winning coach like Gruden or Cowher is NOT the way back to a championship. There's a first time for everything, but I don't think Cowher or Gruden will win another ring in the NFL.
Agreed, the rumor was that he was highly regarded by the front office and this would be the safe transitional move which is a hallmark around Giantland.
The one thing though that could scare them off is the fact that the talent level on this team is in the gutter. Coaches know they cannot fix that.
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and come back- the energy, drive, desire, knowledge...just won't be there.
Worked out pretty well for Dick Vermeil didn't it?
Vermeil didn't have a ring yet.
The one thing though that could scare them off is the fact that the talent level on this team is in the gutter. Coaches know they cannot fix that.
With 50 million in cap room and high draft picks...it can be fixed quickly
But, yes, you are right. But, again, there haven't been too many Vermeils.
Agree, other than Gibbs can't think of another. Vermeil alot better coach and innovator than Cowher. If we're making a change, don't understand the fascination with a 60something old school coach whose been out of the game for years. Give me a guy whose passion is to coach. But yes he'll look tough and do a great job in making OBJ a great down field blocker!!!
With 50 million in cap room and high draft picks...it can be fixed quickly
So, let me ask you this then. If it could be fixed quickly then why hasn't this group we have been able to fix it over the past few years? We were also under the cap this past season and where did that get us? We had extra cap money and knowing we had a problem with the O-line and D-line.... Reese and his crew did not react quickly did they?
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With 50 million in cap room and high draft picks...it can be fixed quickly
So, let me ask you this then. If it could be fixed quickly then why hasn't this group we have been able to fix it over the past few years? We were also under the cap this past season and where did that get us? We had extra cap money and knowing we had a problem with the O-line and D-line.... Reese and his crew did not react quickly did they?
Did we have 50 million in cap room this past year or the year before that?
Did we not address the o line with 3 good draft picks the past 3 years?
D line is a different story
But again, we have more cap room than we have ever had.
Let's see if the FO can capitalize on it
Tick tock tick tock.
These men have both won championships, and are both employed as analysts. Some of you guys acts like they stopped watching football. Give me a break.
I don't think it is likely either will coach the Giants next season (Gruden especially), but they know the game.
Make him cry? Early lead for dumbest statement of the year. congrats.
Did we have 50 million in cap room this past year or the year before that?
Did we not address the o line with 3 good draft picks the past 3 years?
D line is a different story
But again, we have more cap room than we have ever had.
Let's see if the FO can capitalize on it
Will answer each...
NO, we did not have that much cap room but we had cap space that we did not spend.
yes we picked an O-lineman in the past three drafts. However, Pugh has been a disappointment and the O-line was a disappointment last year with both Pugh and Richburg on it. The thought that just adding another rookie was sufficient is not realistic. Richburg I like. But like I said Pugh has played more like Pew and it was too much to ask Flowers to be the savior. We still have holes on this line.
I am not confident in this front office right now. Not feeling like they can bring in quality free agents vs shopping at Walmart.
Yes ......it's my #1 concern.
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he is extremely hard on and demanding of his QBs. He will either make Eli better or will make him cry.
Make him cry? Early lead for dumbest statement of the year. congrats.
Agreed. Coughlin could've been an idiot and wrecked Eli's confidence early in his career, but he knew how not to do that. A new coach would have to be an even bigger idiot to risk alienating Eli. He could easily lose the whole team.
I have had this same feeling gruden was going to be the next coach..
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Did we have 50 million in cap room this past year or the year before that?
Did we not address the o line with 3 good draft picks the past 3 years?
D line is a different story
But again, we have more cap room than we have ever had.
Let's see if the FO can capitalize on it
Will answer each...
NO, we did not have that much cap room but we had cap space that we did not spend.
yes we picked an O-lineman in the past three drafts. However, Pugh has been a disappointment and the O-line was a disappointment last year with both Pugh and Richburg on it. The thought that just adding another rookie was sufficient is not realistic. Richburg I like. But like I said Pugh has played more like Pew and it was too much to ask Flowers to be the savior. We still have holes on this line.
I am not confident in this front office right now. Not feeling like they can bring in quality free agents vs shopping at Walmart.
Richburg played out of position due to the Schwartz injury...but this year he was great
Pugh was hurt all year last year, but did a very good job at guard.
Yes,can still have holes all over the place...but if the $$$$ is spent wisely it can be fixed quickly
This is a year to year league and with a little luck, better health and another good draft this can easily be a playoff team next year.
As for the front office...you and I agree. Reese is the reason we are in this mess...unfortunately it seems like Coughlin will have to take the fall for JR's failures
Not advocating for Cowher as I think he's probably lost his edge being away for so long but to say he's not that good a coach is ridiculous. His career record is 149-90. Won one Super Bowl, got to another. Won 8 divisional titles. Yes he lost a bunch of AFC championship games but that means he got his team to a bunch of AFC championship games. If people are holding out for a replacement with a better resume than that, good luck.
Do you actually watch the games?
Pretty obvious your parents dropped you on your head as a child
He's certainly NOT an impressive player.
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the next coach of the Giants will be Jason Garrett.
Jason Garrett is terrible. Cowboys have much better talent than us. He has done nothing at Dallas except clap hands on the sidelines.
Probably not too many would agree with me here, but if Garrett broke loose, I'd be ok with that..
He wouldn't.
He's certainly NOT an impressive player.
Like I said
You are completely clueless
Only if you want us to suck even more. God he's so unqualified and shown literally nothing to even be mentioned for the job. Amazing
Yes he has absolutely been a disappointment based upon where we drafted him and what our expectations were for him.
We thought we were drafting a tackle in the first round and ended up with a guy who is just "OK" playing guard I would say the same thing about Prince. Not playing like a first round pick.
Do you actually watch the games?
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Pugh's been a disappointment?
Yes he has absolutely been a disappointment based upon where we drafted him and what our expectations were for him.
We thought we were drafting a tackle in the first round and ended up with a guy who is just "OK" playing guard I would say the same thing about Prince. Not playing like a first round pick.
Well WE didnt draft anyone.. The Giants did.. and the Giants drafted a player that they felt could play multiple positions on the line, including center. He is playing guard and actually he is playing guard pretty well considering he is playing next to a rookie left tackle..
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No, I don't realize that.
Why, Bc the game hasn't changed at all since either were in the league?!
Come on -I know this is your site but it's hard to take anyone seriously who thinks cowher or gruden would be candidates
Let's get rid of our 70 year old coach bc the game has passed him by but let's interview 60 year olds who haven't been in league for years?!?!
Gruden is a 60 year old? He looks great for that age.
Pfffft. He's playing a position he's never played. Next to a rookie left tackle and a second year player playing his first year in the nfl as a center. So he's basically bookended by two rookies. And he's played very well.
He's been their best offensive lineman. Yet according to your genius analysis and experience, he's not played well.
I look forward to your next opus on offensive line play. Thanks in advance.
Another fucking idiot that should be relegated to posting on Facebook or ESPN.com. Moron.
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Play's like a "6th" O-lineman. I expect more from the top of a Draft
Another fucking idiot that should be relegated to posting on Facebook or ESPN.com. Moron.
Wait, you forgot Eric J's 6:20...:)
Holy shit. Make him better or make him cry?
You just watch football right, I'm guessing.
You've never actually been a part of a team right?
Stick to fantasy football. For fuck sake.
What's with the idiocy lately? Is this a sign of things to come in 2016?
This place is becoming a complete waste.
This place is becoming a complete waste.
Don't..There are still good people on here..We'll weather the storm together..:)...You're too valuable to lose
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he is extremely hard on and demanding of his QBs. He will either make Eli better or will make him cry.
Holy shit. Make him better or make him cry?
You just watch football right, I'm guessing.
You've never actually been a part of a team right?
Stick to fantasy football. For fuck sake.
What's with the idiocy lately? Is this a sign of things to come in 2016?
Two things...
First, my comment about Gruden was simply about Gruden and not Eli. The point is that he is extremely hard on QBs and has little patience with them. If you know anything about Gruden then you would understand what I mean. Again... this has nothing to do with Eli.
Second, your comments here about me and others are exactly what was discussed in an earlier thread this week about this site. You cannot simply disagree with someone without making personal attacks.
Personal attacks? Nope. Just attacking the idiocy and moronic ramblings of fuckwits. I fight the good fight pal.
Personal attacks? Nope. Just attacking the idiocy and moronic ramblings of fuckwits. I fight the good fight pal.
Well everywhere Gruden has been (even as an assistant) he has been rough on his QBs. He has his QB camp too so his particular expertise is with QBs. It is what it is and that is what my point was. You can call it idiocy if you want but it is the truth.
BTW, I actually think he would be good for Eli
Syracuse bias!!!
I've thought Richburg has been a bit more consistent than Pugh. Big fan of both, though.
At LG? Absolutely. Given the fact that he's bookended by technical rookies.
Greg. I'm telling you. That left side of the line is in great hands moving forward as long as the Giants can secure the RT (yes RT) position. Think about that for a second.
RG and RT - doesn't have to be both. But upgrade one of them and you've got a very solid OL next year. I'm not sure Schwartz is the guy but when he's on, he's pretty good at that G spot. Add some depth and work in a big package and we will see great stuff next year.
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Your comment about Gruden and QBs is completely moot because he's never coached a QB like Eli. Rich Gannon and Jeff Garcia? Gtfoh with that second rate bullshit. Any speculation on a potential relationship with Eli is horseshit.
Personal attacks? Nope. Just attacking the idiocy and moronic ramblings of fuckwits. I fight the good fight pal.
Well everywhere Gruden has been (even as an assistant) he has been rough on his QBs. He has his QB camp too so his particular expertise is with QBs. It is what it is and that is what my point was. You can call it idiocy if you want but it is the truth.
BTW, I actually think he would be good for Eli
Eric. Come on. He played QB. Be more simplistic. Shit.
To my admittedly untrained eye, I saw more impressive plays from Richburg than Pugh, but I can't say I know a ton about OL technique and responsibilities.
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That surprises me.
Syracuse bias!!!
I've thought Richburg has been a bit more consistent than Pugh. Big fan of both, though.
Different contexts when you consider the line personnel though Brett.
It's never about one guy. It never will be. You can hide it to a point with split differential maybe thru high school but the fact remains that it's all about the unit. Unless you've played it or coached it at an advanced level it is very difficult to grasp based on all of the variables.
And I'm a really big Richburg fan. The dude is a fuckin horse out there and he's one of the best C I've seen on space in a very long time. He's a keeper for sure.
To my admittedly untrained eye, I saw more impressive plays from Richburg than Pugh, but I can't say I know a ton about OL technique and responsibilities.
Greg, they're both good. I think Richburg will end up being better. But as a tandem they can be dominant. That's the key.
Give me a talented and eager guy like Hart at his age over a high-priced FA with miles and injuries in his resume all day every day. I can coach him up with his unit to well surpass the aged vet. With all due respect of course.
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No, I don't realize that.
Why, Bc the game hasn't changed at all since either were in the league?!
Come on -I know this is your site but it's hard to take anyone seriously who thinks cowher or gruden would be candidates
Let's get rid of our 70 year old coach bc the game has passed him by but let's interview 60 year olds who haven't been in league for years?!?!
I'm not saying either is a good candidate, but Dick Vermeil was out of coaching for 15 years before coming back for the greatest show on turf rams.
I do believe Mara mentioned the Giants weren't too impressed with last year's crop of free agents so didn't sign many. Doubt they overpay for mediocre being they didn't last year.
They'll blow their money either on another CB or a free agent safety.
Being a HC in the NFL is a lot of work and a lot of hours.
We will see.
They'll blow their money either on another CB or a free agent safety.
If they think that's a huge need they'll go after him as they did gor another huge need, McCourty(he re-signed with the Pats for less)...The bigger question is whether or not Glenn winds up on IR..,:(
Would the Giants consider or even have interest in... Saban, Meyer, Shaw or even Harbaugh?
Would the prestige of the Giants job be enough to lure any of the above? I am pretty sure Shaw would have interest. What about the others?
Because he has said repeatedly during his MNF broadcasts that he would LOVE to coach a Manning!
They'll blow their money either on another CB or a free agent safety.
Since they desperately need another corner and a safety that's not a terrible thing.
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the next coach of the Giants will be Jason Garrett.
Probably not too many would agree with me here, but if Garrett broke loose, I'd be ok with that..
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In comment 12728354 Greg from LI said:
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That surprises me.
Syracuse bias!!!
I've thought Richburg has been a bit more consistent than Pugh. Big fan of both, though.
Different contexts when you consider the line personnel though Brett.
It's never about one guy. It never will be. You can hide it to a point with split differential maybe thru high school but the fact remains that it's all about the unit. Unless you've played it or coached it at an advanced level it is very difficult to grasp based on all of the variables.
And I'm a really big Richburg fan. The dude is a fuckin horse out there and he's one of the best C I've seen on space in a very long time. He's a keeper for sure.
Thanks - it's kind of easy to identify Walter Jones as a good offensive linemen and John Jerry as a bad one - but the nuances of the position escape plebes like myself.
That draft was rough for a lot of NFL teams. Pugh has actually been better than a lot of 1st Rounders that year.
The question on if they could still coach as far as knowing the game is not a question with anyone who has a fucking brain. The question on them coming back is on them. It's the EFFORT and TIME that goes into the job that is the problem, these guys burn out for a reason, it is so fucking hard! But an idiot from his couch will tell us all the game has passed then by. It is becoming a joke to listen to this stuff.
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I would not discount the possibility. Same with Cowher.
This is a very attractive job.
You do realize both gruden and cowher are not viable candidates
Being out of NFL 5 years is like being out of football for 50 years
Dick Vermeil - retired from the Eagles in 1982. He took the Eagle to a SB (lost to the Raiders). Came back to coaching (for the Rams) in 1997 (that's 15 years) and WON THE SUPERBOWL in 1999. It can be done - a good HC is a good HC - I don't care how much time goes by.
However - I can't see either one of those guys (Gruden or Cowher) - leaving their multi-million jobs to get back into the grind of the NFL (unless they have a serious itch that needs to be scratched) even if they are offered the job - they have to get past their wives (who will kill them). : )
I know that ....(I think it was more than a few years ago - wasn't he still coaching when she died? I just assumed he re-married? Maybe I should not assume. : )