Giants Defense 2015. How to fix ?

Pass Rush, Pass Rush, Pass Rush.

You cant win defensively in todays NFL if you cant make the QB move off his spot. We need to add at least 2 quality pass rushers to this unit.

Good health would be nice

And start fresh. That includes the DC. Honestly, there isn't one guy who is essential of those 11.

Isn't the offense, it's the defense. They underperformed, plain and simple. When you get embarrassed in a crucial game against the Kirk Cousins led redskins, you're going to have questions.

Fixing the defense is simple; DEs, two good ones, a bona fide FS, shift Collins to his natural position, sign a FA MLB, and draft CBs, S and DT. Retain JPP and Prince for reasonable sums if possible, get Hankins back, and that unit is fixed.

and sign some FAs who can stay healthy

In comment 12729450 jcn56 said:

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Isn't the offense, it's the defense. They underperformed, plain and simple. When you get embarrassed in a crucial game against the Kirk Cousins led redskins, you're going to have questions. Fixing the defense is simple; DEs, two good ones, a bona fide FS, shift Collins to his natural position, sign a FA MLB, and draft CBs, S and DT. Retain JPP and Prince for reasonable sums if possible, get Hankins back, and that unit is fixed.

Ugh, the reason isn't the DEFENSE, it's the OFFENSE.

2 huge pieces to build with that can be resigned at less then market value

Find a FS that can take pressure off DRC and the linebackers

Resign JPP to a decent, incentive laden deal.
Sign best available FA FS to a decent deal.
Use 3 of top 4 picks on a combo of DL/DT/LB.

Questions for me will be Prince and JPP. That will really have an impact on what we're doing in FA/draft. I'd rather us sign JPP to a friendly long term deal. Prince seems to want a big deal and he frankly isn't worth it. Let him walk if we won't sign a reasonable deal.

Let's be clear. This defense can't be fixed in one year. This is a multi-year process and as we have seen with our won eyes, and seen in stats, this is a historically bad defense talent wise. The problem remains the man charged with fixing this historically bad defense is the same man that assembled it. I dunno. Not terribly optimistic at present.

Look at Reese with O-Line, ignored for years...allowed to fall apart, get old and injured and it has taken years to get back to maybe a bit above average. That's just 5 players. Nearly the *entire* defense has to be rebuilt....by Reese.

In comment 12729446 Aaroninma said:

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Pass Rush, Pass Rush, Pass Rush. You cant win defensively in todays NFL if you cant make the QB move off his spot. We need to add at least 2 quality pass rushers to this unit.

Thank you for knowing the seemingly obvious and quickly responding with it. The Giants D needs to start with getting to the passer, they are in a position where they can switch to a 34 because it's not like they have great DE talent that they would be wasting. Good 3-4 pass rushing OLBs are easier to come by than 4-3 DEs. 3-4 has more moving parts that can confuse offenses. I am in favor of a return to the 3-4. Why not? JPP is done, Osi and Tuck are gone, need say no more.

.

In comment 12729446 Aaroninma said:

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Pass Rush, Pass Rush, Pass Rush. You cant win defensively in todays NFL if you cant make the QB move off his spot. We need to add at least 2 quality pass rushers to this unit.

The way this game is played now , big pass plays are gonna happen whether you have a pass rush or not. If not that it will be PI penalties called which is equivalent to a big pass play. It's the short intermittent routes down in the middle of the field that need to be stopped. Coverage linebackers who can cover backs out of the flat and TEs is what kills the Giants the most. Also is the main weakness in the red zone.

That should be the focus not another overpaid profilic de who sacrifices his lanes for the sack and can't stop the run

In comment 12729465 Bold Ruler said:

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Resign JPP to a decent, incentive laden deal. Sign best available FA FS to a decent deal. Use 3 of top 4 picks on a combo of DL/DT/LB. Questions for me will be Prince and JPP. That will really have an impact on what we're doing in FA/draft. I'd rather us sign JPP to a friendly long term deal. Prince seems to want a big deal and he frankly isn't worth it. Let him walk if we won't sign a reasonable deal. Send JPP to the FA market where he will get NOTHING!!! This keep JPP sentiment is absolutely absurd. The only reason they franchised him was because they were unsure about his health and they didnt have anyone to step up in his place. Then the guy is disgruntled and blows his fingers off totally fucking this team. I dont want him in any shape or form at any fucking cost. HE FUCKED THIS TEAM PEROID POINT BLANK> They cut Will Hill for fucking this team, but there was no doubt he could still play. JPP had back questions before blowing his fingers off, now he is fucking worthless. I am sorry, the Giants need to ship this asshole off, not only because he can't play, but because he betrayed the team. I would rather sign Damontre Moore back than see this asshole in a Giants Jersey again. Never hated an Giant more than I hate this moron. Let's be clear. This defense can't be fixed in one year. This is a multi-year process and as we have seen with our won eyes, and seen in stats, this is a historically bad defense talent wise. The problem remains the man charged with fixing this historically bad defense is the same man that assembled it. I dunno. Not terribly optimistic at present. Look at Reese with O-Line, ignored for years...allowed to fall apart, get old and injured and it has taken years to get back to maybe a bit above average. That's just 5 players. Nearly the *entire* defense has to be rebuilt....by Reese.

should get things back into reasonable shape.

Hankins, DRC, Collins, Kennard if they can keep him on the field, and maybe Bromley are about all they have to build around. They need everything at all three levels. No quick fix here.

In comment 12729501 Red Dog said:
[quote] should get things back into reasonable shape.

That's the thing...we have any real faith in Reese to miraculously turn things around? First it was years of bad drafts, then it was years of bad FA signings. Now the drafts are better but not home runs...but we are counting on Reese to knock drafts and FA signings out of the park. Seriously unlikely unless there is a huge shake up in staff.

I suspect some team will take the odds that he can be the same player he once was or close to it. That would inflate his offer to well above what Giants would be willing to pay.

not be so concerned about one particular area but add a quality upgrade on each line of defense...

1) Have to target (via FA or Draft) one solid DE, one solid LB and a solid Free Safety as immediate starters
2) LB and Free Safety need to have speed/cover skills as key part of makeup so they can deal with TEs and RBs
3) Find a reserve/backup for each of the 3 defenders above from the opposite source (ie., if added DE and LB from draft, then use FA to get their backups)
4) Let Prince go and allocate resources to finding two slightly above average CBs but make sure one can play the slot
5) Need to add veteran DT (not as old as Jenkins) but reliable enough to hold down for next to Hankins

In year 2...repeat 1 thru 3

It's not just one sided. We need a legit #2, need a legit TE, RB, OL. So there's that. Not like we can devote all out picks to just defense. This is going to take a while.

Resign JPP - Buy low sell high - I would resign around 8Mil per year, he has proven to be a difference maker, Ayers has come alive since JPP is back. I think next yr he will play without the club which means we can get a #1 DE for a good price and spend extra elsewhere.

Bring Ayers back - He has established himself as a good 2nd DE, with JPP and a healthy Hankins we have 3 out of 4 DL

Find a starting CB opposite DRC- I am on the fence with Prince, he is a good 2nd CB, but has been unable to stay healthy, I am OK with bringing in someone else through FA but would not be opposed to bringing back Prince at the right price.

Holes to fill in order - MLB, FS, Pass Rush 3rd DE, WLB, 3rd CB, DT

Hardest and most important to fill will be MLB, everyone says we need a 3 down sideline to sideline MLB, these guys are extremely hard to find. We need a leader on D, if we can grab one in the draft in the first 2 rounds I would do it, if not we will need to look in FA. Outside of Injuries on the DL Leadership from this position was the biggest issue with this D IMO

FS - allow Collins to move to natural SS spot, FA or high draft pick

3rd DE to play role that Moore was supposed to play but never matured into. Not getting pressure on the QB was big issue this year, injuries hurt but bringing in a specialist would be big

Because of the cap every team has holes and has to make due somewhere, realistically I would like to upgrade 3rd CB, WLB and DT but may have to hope Wade and Bromley step up after their 1st year of major playing time and JT may be OK if we find a big time talent at MLB.

Draft should be very D heavy

They need first of all, to have an understanding of the type of players they want- do they want them athletic, do they want them big, do they want them nasty, do they want them fast? Obviously, you want all of those things, but not many players can deliver all. Beyond that, anyone who thinks it all gets fixed next year, between the draft and a few extra bucks for FAs is nuts. My nucleus would be Hank, JPP, Collins and DRC. Maybe Prince. Beyond that, no one is particularly proven or reliable. And, at least in my opinion, if Reese was able to fix it, he would have done so in the last 3 years.

I don't care if that's all they can do. We need anyone who can pass rush. Get Ronde Barber out of retirement for all I care and corner blitz every play.

Sign Hankins long term.
Low ball JPP or sign him to a one year market value deal.
Get another DT that can start and push Kuhn and Bromley to the bench.
Resign Brinkley
Resign Ayers to a cheap one year deal. If he gets hurt cut him.
Offer Prince what he is worth and don't get in a bidding war.
Sign a starting free safety
Sign a vet OLB to push the guys we have, a chase Blackburn type would be huge.

Then draft/ pickup UDFA guys for depth at CB, LB, DT, and DE.
Hope to god guys like Bromley, Odi, etc... Develop some.

Guys like Dahl and merriweather are easily picked up during the season, they shouldn't start the year on this team.

In comment 12729532 Bold Ruler said:

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It's not just one sided. We need a legit #2, need a legit TE, RB, OL. So there's that. Not like we can devote all out picks to just defense. This is going to take a while.

Yep agree. But the defense has to be more heavily weighted as it is nothing short of a disaster.

The offense (which has gotten the lion's share of #1 & #2 picks for the last several years) is going to have to find its new starters from later draft picks and the lower money FAs. Focus should be on RT, two new WRs and a young RB with pass catching skills.

to sign at least 1 starter on every level of defense. A starting FS, a starting D-Linemen and a starting Linebacker.

From there, we need to develop at least 2 premium picks on defensive players.

Pray

Hope Odi is a plyer.

Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Not necessarily sacks, but just moving the QB around. They had too many long stretches where they generated nothing

Seattle and their LB and back 7 look pretty ordinary when they were getting no pass rush.

Pittsburgh defense is awful unless they get a pass rush.

How is GB without their pass rush

I resign JPP, Ayers & Prince. I spend money on FA DE, MLB & DT. I bring in more capable bodies

DE: Sign Wilkerson

Assuming no Wilkerson, I bring in V. Curry or M. Jackson. Move on from Selvie and Wynn

DT: I sign B. Thompson and then a H. Melton type as the vet DT. I get Hughes and Bromley in the mix more. Move on from Kuhn, Jenkins:

LB: I sign D. Davis as soon as possible and make him the MLB. I also look at Z. Brown and even R. McClain. All are faster than what is currently playing.

I keep Dennard and Casillas/Thomas

S - I am not breaking the bank, but getting a younger more athletic S to play next to Collins is critical. The problem becomes does the team again spend big dollars like Rolle. I would rather spend big dollars on the DL and work back. I bring in S and then see if Behre, Jackson, Thompson have anything to offer.

CB - Re-sign Prince. You really need at least 5 guys in today"s NFL. CB do not stay healthy. Assuming Prince, they may splash for a vet slot CB, and then fill in with similar guys like Wade/McBride

The JPP injury killed the DL - Hankins got no push. Ayers missed 5 games, Jenkins played outside as a 4-3 DE, Moore was a cement block and OO was hurt. Your depth almost immediately became the starters - never good

Here is the nice hypothetical; Say they pick 10.

Here is who is available: J. Smith with knee injury, Nkemdiche with his off field issues, Ogbah & Hargreaves. But also sitting there is L. Treadwell at WR who is the absolute clear best WR in the class by a wide margin.

all in the same draft/FA cycle? If so they can fix the D in 1 year

but only because how bad our current crop of guys are. But too much to ask to find keepers at those spots in one cycle imo.

In comment 12729514 bc4life said:

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I suspect some team will take the odds that he can be the same player he once was or close to it. That would inflate his offer to well above what Giants would be willing to pay.

The Giants should have security escort him off the premises immediately after the next game. No one will pay him shit. The Giants shouldnt think about signing him for whatever minimum he qualifies for. He fucked this team. Fuck him.

In comment 12729534 bigblitz2001 said:

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Resign JPP - Buy low sell high - I would resign around 8Mil per year, he has proven to be a difference maker, Ayers has come alive since JPP is back. I think next yr he will play without the club which means we can get a #1 DE for a good price and spend extra elsewhere. Bring Ayers back - He has established himself as a good 2nd DE, with JPP and a healthy Hankins we have 3 out of 4 DL Find a starting CB opposite DRC- I am on the fence with Prince, he is a good 2nd CB, but has been unable to stay healthy, I am OK with bringing in someone else through FA but would not be opposed to bringing back Prince at the right price. Holes to fill in order - MLB, FS, Pass Rush 3rd DE, WLB, 3rd CB, DT Hardest and most important to fill will be MLB, everyone says we need a 3 down sideline to sideline MLB, these guys are extremely hard to find. We need a leader on D, if we can grab one in the draft in the first 2 rounds I would do it, if not we will need to look in FA. Outside of Injuries on the DL Leadership from this position was the biggest issue with this D IMO FS - allow Collins to move to natural SS spot, FA or high draft pick 3rd DE to play role that Moore was supposed to play but never matured into. Not getting pressure on the QB was big issue this year, injuries hurt but bringing in a specialist would be big Because of the cap every team has holes and has to make due somewhere, realistically I would like to upgrade 3rd CB, WLB and DT but may have to hope Wade and Bromley step up after their 1st year of major playing time and JT may be OK if we find a big time talent at MLB. Draft should be very D heavy

seek help for whatever mind altering substance you are on.

In comment 12729576 Victor in CT said:

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all in the same draft/FA cycle? If so they can fix the D in 1 year

That is why the Giants should seriously consider trading down in the 2nd or 3rd round. They have needs across the board on defense (DE, LB, FS, DT) and you cannot totally ignore the offensive needs (RB, OT/OG, WR). With so many needs they are a prime candidate to trade down because you could still find a good player that you need at the lower position.

You only have to bite the bullet once and then you are no worse off but with more picks. A trade of RD 2 Pick 11 to Rd 2 Pick 30 could get you three additional picks over your new Pick 30.

I'm not saying that they should do this but rather that they should plan to possibly do this. If a great player is there that you need then don't.

Here is an interesting read on what the draft process is like.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/a-look-inside-a-typical-draft-room/ - ( New Window )

Your stats are off. No disrespect...read my thread above.

would JPP sign a lowball deal from the Giants?

If there is one GM out there willing to overbid for his services, JPP will be all over it.....

In comment 12729774 Doomster said:

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would JPP sign a lowball deal from the Giants? If there is one GM out there willing to overbid for his services, JPP will be all over it.....

He likely won't sign a lowball. So he should leave. Doesn't mean they shouldn't make an offer.

He hasn't proven anything other than he gets pressure but can't wrap up.
If some team wants to throw a bank at him that's their mistake.

A stud DE and a FS woukd change everything

you need to be able to stop the run consistently. So, the good news is we are talking D-line in both scenarios.

No pass rush and no cover guys at the CB or S positions. DRC was the only solid cover option we had on the roster after Prince was injured.

Hosley/McBride/Wade/Collins/Dahl/Merriweather...none of these guys cover worth a damn. And it wasn't just because the pass rush was bad.

So add two pass rushers and three DB's(2Cb & FS).

Then find us a MIKE that can play, make the calls and lead this defense. Ernie gave us Barrow and Pierce. Reeses has given us squat, nada, zilch at the position.

In comment 12729815 Torrag said:

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Hosley/McBride/Wade/Collins/Dahl/Merriweather...none of these guys cover worth a damn. And it wasn't just because the pass rush was bad.

Football Outsiders does not agree:

"...when injuries forced Corey Webster and Aaron Ross out of the starting lineup, McBride got his chance and ran with it.

That year the unknown corner became one of the best players that nobody knew about. In an era when every team is looking for bigger and longer corners, the 5-foot-9, 185-pound McBride excelled on the outside against some of the best receivers the league has to offer.

Per Football Outsiders, McBride averaged a full 1.5 yards fewer per coverage snap than any other receiver charted, the highest adjusted success rate at 69 percent."

Link - ( New Window )

McBride was a sieve on the field. Exposed time and again. He won't be re-signed.

In comment 12729831 OntheRoad said:

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In comment 12729815 Torrag said: Quote: Hosley/McBride/Wade/Collins/Dahl/Merriweather...none of these guys cover worth a damn. And it wasn't just because the pass rush was bad. Football Outsiders does not agree: "...when injuries forced Corey Webster and Aaron Ross out of the starting lineup, McBride got his chance and ran with it. That year the unknown corner became one of the best players that nobody knew about. In an era when every team is looking for bigger and longer corners, the 5-foot-9, 185-pound McBride excelled on the outside against some of the best receivers the league has to offer. Per Football Outsiders, McBride averaged a full 1.5 yards fewer per coverage snap than any other receiver charted, the highest adjusted success rate at 69 percent." Link - ( New Window )

What do his metrics say this year? I'm a PFF guy, but only with regards to line play. I don't take credence to skill players' metrics as there are too many factors involved.

In comment 12729453 jcn56 said:

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In comment 12729450 jcn56 said: Quote: Isn't the offense, it's the defense. They underperformed, plain and simple. When you get embarrassed in a crucial game against the Kirk Cousins led redskins, you're going to have questions. Fixing the defense is simple; DEs, two good ones, a bona fide FS, shift Collins to his natural position, sign a FA MLB, and draft CBs, S and DT. Retain JPP and Prince for reasonable sums if possible, get Hankins back, and that unit is fixed. Ugh, the reason isn't the DEFENSE, it's the OFFENSE.

What? Offense is pretty highly ranked, defense is at the bottom.

and could have been easily alleviated with one or two simple personnel moves (less Andre Williams, Hart for Newhouse, bench Randle, etc.)

the defense ...only God can help us there.

That's where the talent lies in the college game, and it's getting more difficult each year to find true studs at prime positions who fit in a 4-3 scheme.

We have to blow up this roster anyway: we might as well blow it up with an eye toward rebuilding it in a way that will allow us to take advantage of what the FBS offers each year.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, LBs are more important than ever in the modern era. Those that can both rush the passer and cover RBs out of the backfield can make a bad defense a decent one, and decent one fairly good.

I know the Giants don't place a premium on the position anymore. But maybe it's time they did: worked out pretty good for them in '80s.

Moving usually does wonders for a team.

Lot of work to do here. Will take at least 2 years and will need to be handled by a competent talent evaluator which they currently don't have.
Only players who should be retained, and only at the right $$ amount, as follows:
DL: JPP, Ayers, Odiggy, Hankins, Bromley
LB: Kennard, Brinkley, Casillas
DB: Rogers-Cromartie, Amukamara, Collins, Wade

First three rounds of the draft on defense (DE, DT, MLB). Need three quality free agents (S, LB, CB) too and not the usual "run of the mill fill ins" Reese has been famous for. May need to look at all coaches on that side as well, including Spags.
This is an official rebuild.