Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
have been every bit as abysmal as the draft record. Reese, Ross and Chris Mara are all worse at their jobs than Coughlin is at his. I don't like seeing men get fired, but I'm a little tired of John Mara scapegoating the coaching staff for this shitshow. Tell us again how great Jerrel Jernigan is, Mr. Mara.
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
so schwartz, beason, not addressing the FS or LB positions the last few years is not reese' fault?
I don't care who runs the draft. Reese is the head of all player personal moves. He gets the final say. He needs to be held accountable.
Schwartz and Beason are both good players who can't stay healthy. You can argue that he should have had more depth behind them, but they are both talented when they are playing.
To me John Mara is shaped by two contradictory forces. He remembers the failure of the 70s. He knows his father held on to people well beyond their talent and usefulness out of loyalty and is determined not to make those mistakes. At the same time hie is influenced by his love and respect of his father and how he conducted himself as a man and owner. As a result I think there will be more half measures as he tries to find balance between the two poles.
so schwartz, beason, not addressing the FS or LB positions the last few years is not reese' fault?
I don't care who runs the draft. Reese is the head of all player personal moves. He gets the final say. He needs to be held accountable.
Schwartz and Beason are both good players who can't stay healthy. You can argue that he should have had more depth behind them, but they are both talented when they are playing.
Beason had an injury history way before the Giants got him
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
Serious question
It's been discussed ad nauseum.
Wow, good answer! Well when people start with their "indignant bitching" quoting you, remember you've discussed it ad nauseum.
RE: RE: I still think Marc Ross is far more responsible for this shitshow of a Â
If this team and even last year's team stayed remotely healthy, who knows?
Just a few less injuries this season likely means the Giants make the playoffs, and we aren't having these conversations today. Reese-bashers still would bash eventually, but TC would be preparing to hoist the Packers.
Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
Should skip this guys posts...the stupidity and ignorance from him has gone on for awhile now...
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
Serious question
It's been discussed ad nauseum.
Wow, good answer! Well when people start with their "indignant bitching" quoting you, remember you've discussed it ad nauseum.
Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
Should skip this guys posts...the stupidity and ignorance from him has gone on for awhile now...
I won't mention names but you'd be stunned at the posters who thought Reese was a diversity interview and/or hiring. You'd be stunned.
Now I wonder if the mods will actually do something about your attitude since you keep violating TOS by attacking other people who dare disagree with you in this thread and others.
but think there's room for discussion as to why he is safe.
Between contracts to players that have had injury history, to Beatty's contract, big misses in rounds past #1. We have filled roster with special team players, and guys from other teams that were just plain awful.
bring in a new strength/conditioning staff with an emphasis on preventing injuries. If they do that, and the team still leads the league in injuries in 2016, I'll be shocked.
Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
Should skip this guys posts...the stupidity and ignorance from him has gone on for awhile now...
I won't mention names but you'd be stunned at the posters who thought Reese was a diversity interview and/or hiring. You'd be stunned.
Your right, I'am sure there are more than the obvious...pretty disappointing too.
is I wont believe Reach is safe. Hopefully we will find out more at tomorrows news conference. There's still plenty of time to fire this bum. If a guy like Cowher comes in how can he live with this moron as his so called boss? Unless they of course promote one of the coordinators who will have to live with him until Johnny Jelly Fish obtains a set of nuts.
After providing my well thought out views on the Empty Suit since he took the GM position on January 16, 2007 I must admit I'm growing tired of it. The end must be coming soon.
Comment deleted from thread 528487As Obama is president.
What a well thought out, pragmatic thing to say. YOu've already sailed past the point where you lost your damn mind. Plus it only reinforces the 'demographic' comment made by another poster.
He picks the coach, he's a huge part of the draft and likely has a say with free agents. He can't fire himself so why fire Reese? A fall guy with a title when Mara has his hands in everything?
so schwartz, beason, not addressing the FS or LB positions the last few years is not reese' fault?
I don't care who runs the draft. Reese is the head of all player personal moves. He gets the final say. He needs to be held accountable.
Schwartz and Beason are both good players who can't stay healthy. You can argue that he should have had more depth behind them, but they are both talented when they are playing.
They each had a history of not being healthy. Reese new that going in.
Get it out of your heads that the Young-era deal where the owners stay out of football operations is still in force. It's gone, trashed, shredded. And quit making fun of Jerrah as we now have our own.
were beyond the control of Reese - Beatty, JPP, Cruz, and Wilson injuries. Those were huge.
Linval Joseph, Marty B, Beason were in his control. The fact is that you struggle to find good calls among his calls in recent years both in the draft and in his FA decisions.
were beyond the control of Reese - Beatty, JPP, Cruz, and Wilson injuries. Those were huge.
Correct, and upper management will point to those as ballast for keeping Reese at the helm, while also acknowledging he needs to make staff changes and he's now on notice for turning this around, quickly.
RE: RE: RE: Aside from the Head Reese Cheerleader in LA Â
The nightmare scenario is if they push McAdoo and/or Spags on a new head coach. That can't happen.
Agreed. Forcing a head coach to accept the holdover assistants is a really foolish move.
Yes...not only do you want a coach to bring in what he wants, but this doesn't necessarily make the job attractive to potential candidates if they will have staff forced on them.
I am not saying Reese shouldnt be fired. He should due to his staff Â
Do you think Mara would blow it up like he should?
I just hope he doesn't choose the coach. Because whoever they bring in, if in 1 year they still suck, Reese needs to go. If he brings in the coach then the new GM will be stuck with a coach for at least 2 years.
He now has a chance with a ton of cap room and a franchise QB to see if he can build the roster back up. If not, the ownership will truly look foolish for keeping him around.
Fine skip my posts. WTF do you think you are that everybody has to answer to your criticism one way or the other? We all are entitled to our opinions and not waste our time debating with you. All you do is attack other posters trying to generate responses. Get a life ASSHOLE and stop haunting this board looking for one.
this vitriol doesn't help. its hard. and this was a suck ass season. reluctantly, i felt both should go. but people change and organizations, hopefully, can too.
the giants have demonstrated convincingly that they have the capacity to reinvent themselves. i have faith they will do it again now.
Of course Reese is staying. Rail at the injustice of Coughlin taking the fall if you must. but did anyone seriously think the New York Football Giants would fire a 52-year-old GM who joined the organization as a scout 22 years ago and has won two championships in nine seasons at the helm? They didn't fire George Young in 1997, after Reeves trashed the team. They didn't fire Ernie Accorsi in 2004, after Fassel imploded.
Barring an organizational meltdown, I think Reese probably has two years to fix the mess.
Is a horrible GM, I think everyone knows how I feel about him. I think Tom Coughlin is a good head coach, but I also think it is time to move on past Tom too. I have no problem with Coughlin being let go, but I do have a problem with Reese being retained. The only saving grace is this, the Mara'a are so stupid that they would fuck up the GM hiring, that is the only saving grace, for others who feel this way there is one more ray of hope.
We all know that this has been a combination of injuries, bad luck, and incompetence. The Reese hiring was the job of EA. He was hired by George Young. So let's hold onto that ray of hope that Reese learns from his mistakes and with a new coach, maybe, just maybe, we get a new strength and conditioning coach and possibly a little luck also, and Reese can turn things around.
I would rather think that way then continue to bitch and complain. I don't have to apologize to anyone, I know how long and how true a Giant fan I have been. I know how pathetic Wellington Mara was, I know first hand, not reading about it. But living it. I am going to choose to hope that Reese can get a little lucky, we stay healthy, and bring in the right coach from here.
I do think it is going to be McAdoo by the way, and we will see if that works or not.
I think the majority of BBI were in agreement at the time that we couldn't have given out that contract to the Black Unicorn.
That's true. But if the bar for a GM's acumen is "majority opinion of BBI" then we are really in trouble!
The point is that it was clearly a mistake to not give Marty B that contract given the terrible tight end play Reese has procured since the Black Unicorn's departure both in the passing and running games.
However, in the words of Eric Cartman, Fuck, Fuckity, Fuck, Fuck, Fuck.
Some heads better roll under Jerry Reese and he had better have his FA cap on this spring because it's go time.
I think it is absolutely disgraceful for TC to take the fall for the ineptitude of this team the past few years while JR gets to keep his seat in the ivory tower.
I hope TC continues to coach in the NFL and achieves tremendous success.
This team blew four or five late 4th quarter leads due, in large part, to coaching blunders. As bad as the personnel may be (and it is bad), Reese can say that with even mediocre coaching this season, the team is at least 10-6 and headed for the playoffs.
Force out one of the franchise's most successful head coaches, give a pass to the guy who decided that Marshall Newhouse would be an okay right tackle.
The blown 4th quarters were awful this year, but there's not going to be a coach who can get this shit roster to even keep games close coming through the door.
I have a inkling that Reese tried to right the ship by taking control of the the steering wheel the past few years after seeing the ship plummeting with Ross captaining the draft.
Look at the types of players the past two years that were selected, much more in line with 2007 selections... more leadership, captain, passion-type qualities... as opposed to the drafts that were manned by Ross -- soft players emotionally and physically, non vocal, laissez faire, and not long for the Giants or NFL.
I can see the Giants keeping and promoting McAdoo, they value him highly and better to grow with him too early than losing him if they don't want to see him out the door. Also I think the calculation here is that they like Spags as well, and he's not going to be a hot HC candidate. So if anything you promote McAdoo to keep the continuity with Spags, and Spags can be McAdoo's Dick Lebeau, a long timer at DC if we can address the talent situation.
The only scenario I see a coordinator being forced on a coach is if Cowher comes in I can see BM continuing on if they can convince BM he is the heir apparent, but that's not as clear so if they like him later, might as well like him now.
This team blew four or five late 4th quarter leads due, in large part, to coaching blunders. As bad as the personnel may be (and it is bad), Reese can say that with even mediocre coaching this season, the team is at least 10-6 and headed for the playoffs.
Simple as that.
Yup.. And not coming off a bye and shitting the bed, like this team always do!! Washington was a quarter away from pitching a damn shutout. The talent is bad. But the coaching has been worse. And it didn't just start this season
Two of the defensive starters who might start for a playoff caliber team.
Who's left as a defensive starter who could start on a good team? DRC and Hankins. Not sure about Hankins yet. He has missed 12 of 48 games with injuries.
Collins can tackle at least. He might turn into a good player. Moore showed some potential as a pass rusher, but he's gone.
This could be the start of a new dark age like that of the 70s when the defense was soft as cotton and 17 years went by without a winning record.
Tom is infinitely better at his job than Jerry is at his. Â
but one of the main reasons the Giants fell apart after 2011 (and one of the reasons they almost missed the playoffs in 2011) was because the offensive line completely fell apart after 2010. It has been five freaking years, and the line is still only half fixed. Any front office that can't fix a personnel problem in five years is not going to have success in the NFL.
Philly jamming it up our ass wouldn't be any change from Coughlin's tenure.
Philly is a terrible job for Coughlin because of the fact the Eagles are in need now of a multi year retool. He'd also kill any goodwill with the Giants or the fanbase by taking the Eagles job.
They are almost as weak on the lines as we are. In fact I would argue their offensive line is worse much worse than ours.
every single freaking team in the NFL routinely misses on draft picks - especially 3-7. All the anti Reese crowd keeps pointing out the failed draft picks, and forgets about the multiple coaching brain farts over the past several years! What kind of coach send the punt team out on 4th and two from the other teams 40 yard line down 35-7? Eli waves them back. Does that game get to 35-35 if they punt there? How many games need to be mis-manged at the end??? Isn't that a little easier than hitting on a 5th round draft pick? How many 5-7 round draft picks are in the league???
With marginally better coaching this year, the team is 10-6, with the same talent. Let's see if next years DC starts Markus Kuhn!
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
every single freaking team in the NFL routinely misses on draft picks - especially 3-7. All the anti Reese crowd keeps pointing out the failed draft picks, and forgets about the multiple coaching brain farts over the past several years! What kind of coach send the punt team out on 4th and two from the other teams 40 yard line down 35-7? Eli waves them back. Does that game get to 35-35 if they punt there? How many games need to be mis-manged at the end??? Isn't that a little easier than hitting on a 5th round draft pick? How many 5-7 round draft picks are in the league???
With marginally better coaching this year, the team is 10-6, with the same talent. Let's see if next years DC starts Markus Kuhn!
They're both responsible, which is what the majority of people here are saying. It's only the biased people towards one of these two guys that can't seem to handle it and are comparing them to past coaches and past GMs because they're all butt-hurt about it. Reese and Coughlin had an awful past 4 years. THEY are responsible more than anyone else. Deal with that, people.
and acknowledge progress, as limited as it may be then you're just fucking blind. The OL is in fine shape going forward and really just needs one more live body and some maturation to gel into an elite unit. The WR is HOF caliber. There's some young pieces on this team that will be part of the solution and there's ample cap space.
Ok some of his FA moves were shaky. Schwartz hasn't panned out but you can't blame Reese for signing the guy. HE got hurt. It happens.
If we still suck this time next year or show no progress and we strike out or hand out bad contracts in the coming FA period ok fine, kill Reese but until then STFU--it's not easy to maintain a winning model in today's NFL especially when you factor in the obscene amount of career ending injuries this team suffered. Explain to me how drafting Mario Manningham and Nicks and Steve Smith and Phillips and finding Cruz were dumb moves? How can you blame the GM when good young players go down for good due to injury and the team can't bounce back overnight?
Watch the niners suck ass for another two years. Tell me that mgmt over there forgot how to find talent. They didn't they are simply under siege with injuries and or retirements. Shit happens.
There are many reasons why JR should be gone, but the most glaring problem is the way he wasted cap $ on JJ and MN on the rt. side of the O-line. These guys should be at home working somewhere where all they need to do is ask `Want fries with that`. Two butterballs side by side. It is miracle Eli is alive. The worst part is that the player that JJ replaced was as bad as them and we still have him for 2 more years. JR should not be allow to be involved in the draft or free agent signings. Maybe if he keeps his nose clean they could allow him to clean the mens rooms in the owners suite. What a douche.
every single freaking team in the NFL routinely misses on draft picks - especially 3-7. All the anti Reese crowd keeps pointing out the failed draft picks, and forgets about the multiple coaching brain farts over the past several years! What kind of coach send the punt team out on 4th and two from the other teams 40 yard line down 35-7? Eli waves them back. Does that game get to 35-35 if they punt there? How many games need to be mis-manged at the end??? Isn't that a little easier than hitting on a 5th round draft pick? How many 5-7 round draft picks are in the league???
With marginally better coaching this year, the team is 10-6, with the same talent. Let's see if next years DC starts Markus Kuhn!
then why are all the ex players going in on the Front Office. Shaun O'Hara, Toomer, Snee (i know he has obligations). Are going on social media destroying the teams roster.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
Force out one of the franchise's most successful head coaches, give a pass to the guy who decided that Marshall Newhouse would be an okay right tackle.
Marshall Newhouse is "okay" at right tackle. Not great, not even good but "okay."
Contracts like Beason and Schwartz are not progress. Alot of the draft picks, as well. Stop.
If you don't think this team is better off than 2013 and even 2012 then I don't know what to say. You may not see it but I do. This team is closer to 11 wins than the 2012 team was. Young team with cap space is a good thing.
And the Giants will recover from the Beason and Schwartz signing and don't tell me you knew that Schwartz was going to be hurt all the time here. No one knew that. Beason....yes.
We have one of the least talented teams in the NFL and maybe the worst talented defense in modern NFL history. The GM and scouting need to be taken to task on that. They have provided shit on defense and mediocrity on many offensive positions. It is only because of the coaching prep that we were in any games this year. No talent. Every single person that knows football sees that. It wasn't on both; it wasn't on both it was on the GM.
But in the typical Giants fashion we make a move that is mind bogglingly stupid. I don't know why; but was was stupid. We were one of the few teams in the NFL with a HoF coach and HoF QB. Miraculously, we had that. We also had fuckups at the GM scouting side but that could have been fixed. Keep the HoF HC and QB together; it is a rare thing. Get somene to scout and choose better players. That was the good move.
The quality of players taken in the draft and Undrafted FA has steadily declined. Andy Reid fired him and he went to Buffalo for one year when the Bills were awful. Our UFA signings have went south after DG went to Carolina.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
Yup
RE: RE: 6-10 the past two years is not progress. Â
Contracts like Beason and Schwartz are not progress. Alot of the draft picks, as well. Stop.
If you don't think this team is better off than 2013 and even 2012 then I don't know what to say. You may not see it but I do. This team is closer to 11 wins than the 2012 team was. Young team with cap space is a good thing.
And the Giants will recover from the Beason and Schwartz signing and don't tell me you knew that Schwartz was going to be hurt all the time here. No one knew that. Beason....yes.
Outside of Eli and Beckham, where is the talent? If this team is making progress, there should be more talent on the team than two guys, one of which is a 35 year old franchise QB.
Going 6-10 two seasons in a row doesn't show awhole lot of progress. Being well over 10 games under .500 since Hurricane Sandy doesn't show any progress. The insane amount of holes on the roster still to this day also does not indicate progress. The only positive thing we have going for us right now (outside of Eli and Beckham) is the cap space we have this off-season. That's it. Reese better hit a couple of HRs this offseason, in the draft, too.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
If that's good, I would hate to see bad. His 3-5 picks have been close to abysmal. With ridiculous picks like Robinson, Taylor and Thompson and reaches like Bromley
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
Like I said in another topic (sarcastically), Reese IMO absolutely needs to go, but on this board, you'd think Reese was the worst GM in the NFL since 2000 next to Matt Millen and he held this team back from winning 4-5 Superbowls.
RE: I don't want to advocate that a guy get fired, Â
but one of the main reasons the Giants fell apart after 2011 (and one of the reasons they almost missed the playoffs in 2011) was because the offensive line completely fell apart after 2010. It has been five freaking years, and the line is still only half fixed. Any front office that can't fix a personnel problem in five years is not going to have success in the NFL.
Well if you won't I will. Give the bum the heave ho!!
Ownership won't fire a GM who's never had a hand choosing the head coach.
Ownership won't position themselves to replace the 2 most important roles in management at the same time. Shit teams like the Titans and Browns do shit like that.
They kept the employee with the best chance to recover and best chance to contribute over the long-term.
Coughlin and Reese did very good things for this team over long tenures. They've also under-performed in streaks, blurred by historically significant amounts of injuries.
Unfortunately for Tom, the proof is always on the field. The GM built a roster with 53 guys, good enough to claim leads for 50+ mins in a half-dozen games, and then suddenly sucked and sank the season?
Who knows. Maybe it was a miracle for Coughlin to get Reese's bad roster that far.
If you really despise Reese, you'll get your chance to dance on his grave a year from today. He's picking a new coach, has significant cap room/flexibility and a premium draft pick. If this team isn't better next year, he's gone.
But don't get all whiney the Giants didn't ditch the GM and coach at the same time.
The bottom line is that his drafts and FA moves have not been as good as the good teams around the NFL. People can point to injuries and other excuses, but that's pretty much it. You have to hit on some late rounders and you have to make smart FA moves. Just take a look around the league -- the playoff teams are the ones who have simply drafted better than we have.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
ridiculous. By all accounts, the Giants' GMs own the first pick and have the final say in later rounds, but they almost invariably stick to their draft board as the draft progresses. Reese built the draft board from 2003-07 for drafts that yielded Tuck, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Diehl, Wilson, Osi, Ross, Boss, Smith, and Ward. You're going to tell me those guys weren't essential to winning that year?
The bottom line is that his drafts and FA moves have not been as good as the good teams around the NFL. People can point to injuries and other excuses, but that's pretty much it. You have to hit on some late rounders and you have to make smart FA moves. Just take a look around the league -- the playoff teams are the ones who have simply drafted better than we have.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
Exactly. He has some good in there, but for quite awhile now it's been mostly bad.
It rates teams last 5 drafts starting in 2010 ending in 2014. The Giants are 23rd of 32.
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams." NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
I posted this column from the NY Post from April 2015 Â
It rates teams last 5 drafts starting in 2010 ending in 2014. The Giants are 23rd of 32.
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams." NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
I have a inkling that Reese tried to right the ship by taking control of the the steering wheel the past few years after seeing the ship plummeting with Ross captaining the draft.
Look at the types of players the past two years that were selected, much more in line with 2007 selections... more leadership, captain, passion-type qualities... as opposed to the drafts that were manned by Ross -- soft players emotionally and physically, non vocal, laissez faire, and not long for the Giants or NFL.
I can see the Giants keeping and promoting McAdoo, they value him highly and better to grow with him too early than losing him if they don't want to see him out the door. Also I think the calculation here is that they like Spags as well, and he's not going to be a hot HC candidate. So if anything you promote McAdoo to keep the continuity with Spags, and Spags can be McAdoo's Dick Lebeau, a long timer at DC if we can address the talent situation.
The only scenario I see a coordinator being forced on a coach is if Cowher comes in I can see BM continuing on if they can convince BM he is the heir apparent, but that's not as clear so if they like him later, might as well like him now.
I think the team will keep McAdoo where he is and hire an experienced HC to mentor him for a few years, unless someone hires him away from us.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
The "Fire Reese" folks just have no grip on reality. Â
I guess it's fair to say Reese has performed his job duties competently.
But for the last four years, Eli has been in his prime and injury free. And paid "elite" status money. Yet, what's been the dividend?
To not be able to assemble the right fitting parts around that, on both sides of the ball, is strong indication that Reese has slipped. And slipped dramatically the wrong way. Letting him keep his job is an insult to the customer base.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
to all the people that killed Accorsi around 2003.
You know who you are. I suspect no one will admit it but you know i'm right.
Right here. I hated Ernie. I have to give him credit for Eli (though as I've said, it's not like he was all on his own in thinking Eli was a potential franchise QB) and some excellent FA signings, but his draft record both with the Browns and the Giants was mixed at best. People blast Reese for the recent OL but forget how awful the OLs Accorsi put together in 2003-04 were.
Ernie's best gifts, as they always have been, lie in his first position in the NFL - PR. Few people are better self-promoters than Ernie Accorsi.
means making sure the people under you are performing their jobs as well.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Otherwise...
And that's perfectly legitimate. However, I'd say the same thing goes for Coughlin's assistant coaches. His defenders like to gripe about his coordinators as if he weren't the guy who hired them.
bring in a new strength/conditioning staff with an emphasis on preventing injuries. If they do that, and the team still leads the league in injuries in 2016, I'll be shocked.
Bingo, Rob! I would like to see changes to the medical/conditioning staff. Top 3 in the league in injured reserve year after year means something has to change. This killed Coughlin and makes Reese look worse than he is.
As for Reese...he has had bad moments and I think he picks too many "projects" or takes fliers on early round injury prone players but he DID win two trophies and the Beckham/Flowers picks have given him new life. Here's to hoping he hits on some in the coming years as it seems he is here to stay. To clean house that drastically (fire HC and GM) is not the Giants way.
RE: Just because Reese is safe now doesn't mean he Â
too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
I get that we had a ton of injuries at FS. But the backup plan to McCourty seemed to be, "I hope one of these guys works out." That all of them got injured doesn't change the fact that the Giants had no idea how good they were going to be at FS in game 1. Same thing with Donnell. "I hope he takes the next step." That may be fine, but this year, "I hope" seemed to be the backup plan for an awful lot of positions.
too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
The Mara's would never fire an African American GM it would be against every thing they stand for Left Wing Liberal and Catholic. Never, Reese has a job for life. I'm sure Tisch would fire his ass though.
example:
Use any other business for your reference...
Retail manager,
Office manager,
General contractor,
You name it.
Your hiring manager/HR Personel manager continues to hire unqualified employees and you as the Manager are constantly turning over your staff and results are poor. Are there no repercussions for the personel manager?
I hope TC during his meeting name his defensive players...And if he did I hope Mara said Jasper who?
It appears that my dream that I can draft better than Reese, and would be brought in in the TC shuffle, is dashed. But, 10th is not such a bad position, and I will start with the #2WR, who is Odell's twin, after that, Reese and I are not in full agreement. Of course, the new coach need not be consulted.
Reese has done a poor job. Giants have the worst defense in the NFL. Â
Now that TC is gone Reese is on the hot seat and he better deliver. Lombardi could not have gotten any more out of this roster of practice squad players. Take away Eli and Beckham and this teams has a bunch of injured FA and draft busts.
In comment 12737605 BigBlueCane said:
[quote] means making sure the people under you are performing their jobs as well.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Charles: This was a comment someone made to you quite awhile back. Remember? "These people would screw up a 2-car funeral if left to their own devices." Do you now believe? As I recall, you didn't then."
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
about the OL....Pugh has been average....a first rounder playing like a mid round guy. Flowers has been up and down...Richburg has been very good.....By my math that leaves three spots that could be upgraded.
RE: Imo, I think Reese is gone after 2016 season Â
As I have posted many times, it is not the injuries, but catastrophic career ending/altering injuries that he has dealt with
K. Phillips, S. Smith, J. Alford, T. Thomas, J. Goff, H. Nicks, T. Beckum, C. Sintum, C. Jones, JPP, D. Wilson.
All of these players were 25 & under before suffering career ending/altering injuries.
There is not another NFL franchise that is remotely close to having this happen to them.
It has a cumulative effect - you lose top talent and young depth and then you have to re-draft that or allocate FA resources. Your Plan-A got all F'd up and now Plan B & C are in place but your Plan A elsewhere is messed up.
His FA are generally good when they play. He got snake bit again with Canty & Baas who never missed time until they were with the Giants. Boley was a good player. Harris & Vereen have been good. I think Casillas has value
He has faults - Sintim was a bad pick due to fit. Austin was a huge gamble. Giving Beason money was not good.
He does not miss in rd 1 and generally is very good in round 2. His issue, until recently was his missing on most 3rd rd picks.
This now is the year - he has money and a say in the new coach.
RE: The same people that are bending over backwards Â
Proven coach and a GM that got lucky when Acorsi stepped down. Reese is responsible for the roster and to be honest even the best coach in the league right now or last couple of seasons would of failed.I have a hard time with Coughlin leaving. A depleted roster year after year falls on Reese not Coughlin. Coughlin is the scapegoat but the realing problem falls with the GM
Proven coach and a GM that got lucky when Acorsi stepped down. Reese is responsible for the roster and to be honest even the best coach in the league right now or last couple of seasons would of failed.I have a hard time with Coughlin leaving. A depleted roster year after year falls on Reese not Coughlin. Coughlin is the scapegoat but the realing problem falls with the GM
Ok I am the first to say that Reese definitely has some blame to share in the lack of talent on the roster. But this mindset around here that Reese is some clueless boob who just got lucky is ridiculous..
A GM that got lucky when Accorsi stepped down..
Somehow you ignore the fact that it was Reese who was the director of pro personnel from 2004-2007 and it was Reese who coordinated the Giants’ college scouting, and was in charge of the team’s draft preparation and ran the draft room as the players were selected.
That means Reese was very much a part of the selection of Chris Snee, Reggie Torbor amd Gibril Wilson all players who started on a Superbowl team. I believe it was also reported somewhere that it was Reese who convinced Accorsi that Osi should not be included in any trade for Eli.
This means Reese was also part of the team that selected Corey Webster, Justin Tuck and Brandon Jacobs.
Reese also ran the 2007 draft which produced Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Jay Alford, Kevin Boss, Michael Johnson, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Zak DeOssie. All players who contributed to a Superbowl.
Also directly responsible for the drafting of JPP, Prince, Nicks, Manningham.
Reese has also found some gems who helped the Giants get to and win Superbowls like Chase Blackburn. Victor Cruz. Jake Ballard. Domenick Hixon, Madison Hedgecock.
Reese has even hit a few times in Free Agency with players like Kavika Mitchell, Rolle, Boley, Deon Grant who all helped win a title and lately DRC who has been the best corner the Giants have had in a while.
You also have to give Reese credit for OBJ and Richburg who look like solid players for years to come.
NOW that being said.. Reese has had some HUGE reaches and some awful bad signings and mistakes.. and is very much responsible for the roster we have now.
However the portrayal of him as some clueless moron is WAY off base..
Reese will get a "honeymoon" year in 2016 with the new coach. Playoffs or not, he'll be back for 2017. If we are still out of the playoffs by then with a QB turning 37, everything gets blown up.
As bad as the injuries have been for TC every year, Reese has been hit with the GM equivalent of it, with young promising careers ending too early. David Wilson, Chad Jones, Kenny Phillips, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz possibly, JPP, etc.
They both deserved to stay.
On the very day the Giants won the Super Bowl in 2012, Â
too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
The Mara's would never fire an African American GM it would be against every thing they stand for Left Wing Liberal and Catholic. Never, Reese has a job for life. I'm sure Tisch would fire his ass though.
This post is my favorite - on a day with plenty of stupid, this went above and beyond the call of duty to impress.
Because you know those crazy Irish Catholic billionaire liberals, they'll do anything for an African American.
The average career length in the NFL is 3.3 years. The average for wide receivers is 2.81 years.
Let's look at the top 15 players in receiving yards in 2011, of whom Cruz and Nicks are a part of. Do you know who the 2 least productive players during 2014/2015 are among that group of 15? Cruz and Nicks. Do you know who're the 2 least productive players on the list of 15 in terms of career receptions? Cruz and Nicks. Here's the crazy part... Nicks is the 3rd youngest in that group of 15 and Cruz is the 5th youngest.
The "average career length" doesn't appear to have affected anyone else in that group of 15 except for Cruz and Nicks. That's bad luck.
not 1 single comment from the Reese defenders about the Giants Â
being ranked 23rd in drafting for the 5 years 2010-2014? The main job of the department he heads has failed in my opinion and that of many others, someone asked for some kind of independent analysis, which I posted on 2 threads, but all you guys can do is make wisecracks and insult those who think Reese is getting a free pass after TC fell on his sword? Brilliant minds.
RE: not 1 single comment from the Reese defenders about the Giants Â
being ranked 23rd in drafting for the 5 years 2010-2014? The main job of the department he heads has failed in my opinion and that of many others, someone asked for some kind of independent analysis, which I posted on 2 threads, but all you guys can do is make wisecracks and insult those who think Reese is getting a free pass after TC fell on his sword? Brilliant minds.
I have said over and over that Reese did a bad job mainly in 2011-2012--those two drafts were misses to say the least. But Wilson may have been a good player if not for injury. Not to absolve him completely but there have been mitigating factors that contributed to the bad drafts. There usually is.
Anyone saying the 2010 draft was poor doesn't know wtf they are talking about. JPP and Joseph played integral parts on a super bowl team. That in itself says that draft was successful.
Yes, Reese had a bad stretch. So did Coughlin. So did Eli in 2013 and parts of 2014 and 2015. No one is exempt here. But the last 3 drafts have looked much better and you can't deny that.
Reese is on watch here and he should be. But I don't think it's foolish to keep him as GM and replace the HC. Any move they made here was risky. Cleaning house is never a good thing if it can be avoided and to say that Reese is a terrible GM while looking at his entire body of work here just spits in the face of reality. Some of you are exaggerating.
RE: RE: not 1 single comment from the Reese defenders about the Giants Â
being ranked 23rd in drafting for the 5 years 2010-2014? The main job of the department he heads has failed in my opinion and that of many others, someone asked for some kind of independent analysis, which I posted on 2 threads, but all you guys can do is make wisecracks and insult those who think Reese is getting a free pass after TC fell on his sword? Brilliant minds.
I have said over and over that Reese did a bad job mainly in 2011-2012--those two drafts were misses to say the least. But Wilson may have been a good player if not for injury. Not to absolve him completely but there have been mitigating factors that contributed to the bad drafts. There usually is.
Anyone saying the 2010 draft was poor doesn't know wtf they are talking about. JPP and Joseph played integral parts on a super bowl team. That in itself says that draft was successful.
Yes, Reese had a bad stretch. So did Coughlin. So did Eli in 2013 and parts of 2014 and 2015. No one is exempt here. But the last 3 drafts have looked much better and you can't deny that.
Reese is on watch here and he should be. But I don't think it's foolish to keep him as GM and replace the HC. Any move they made here was risky. Cleaning house is never a good thing if it can be avoided and to say that Reese is a terrible GM while looking at his entire body of work here just spits in the face of reality. Some of you are exaggerating.
1) the rating is based on the totality of the 5 years
2) Look closely, the last 3 drafts have followed the same Reese pattern: hit in the 1st round, 50/50 in the 2nd, zippo from the 3rd on down.
I get that rd 4 down is always dicey. You have to get lucky and hit some there. But you HAVE to do better in Rounds 2 and 3. The 1st 3 rounds are your premium picks.
In three of his drafts,he had the last or 29th pick in each round. He also extended key guys for the second SB run ,limitng space and compensatory picks. Other teams trade back for extra picks so it's unclear if they are better than us.
Once McAdoo is announced as the head coach, it will be complete.
I was in the crowd of either both stayed, or both left. Since TC is gone, I think Reese should have went as well.
Whatever the case, it's super important that these two jobs work together very well.
Me too. If Ross still has a job when this is all over, then I'm joining the pitchforks and torches crew.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Once McAdoo is announced as the head coach, it will be complete.
ha!
this is beyond stupid
The guy who ran the team during its darkest era from 1965-1978? That father?
Here comes the stupid sh*t.
(Not that I doubt that it's true.)
I'm OK with Reese staying if Ross/Mara are reassigned. I have absolutely no faith in the Maras' ability to pick a competent GM on their own.
so schwartz, beason, not addressing the FS or LB positions the last few years is not reese' fault?
I don't care who runs the draft. Reese is the head of all player personal moves. He gets the final say. He needs to be held accountable.
He better have an epiphany of talent acquisition, especially after round 2 of the draft, or it's same old-same-old.
Or worse.
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
Serious question
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
Quote:
.
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
Serious question
It's been discussed ad nauseum.
They fired the wrong guy. Such bull.
Better be Ross...
It may not be what people want (I don't), but people need to just accept it and hope for the best at this point.
Quote:
...a travesty. Hey John Mara, you're nothing like your father.
The guy who ran the team during its darkest era from 1965-1978? That father?
Exactly. That same father who Pete Rozelle went to and said you need to fix this, and fix it now.
Rozelle even gave him a list of GM's to hire (hint, hint).
As it should be - if Reese is going to stay, he should know that he's on borrowed time and he's got to get this turned around ASAP.
Quote:
roster than Reese is.
so schwartz, beason, not addressing the FS or LB positions the last few years is not reese' fault?
I don't care who runs the draft. Reese is the head of all player personal moves. He gets the final say. He needs to be held accountable.
Schwartz and Beason are both good players who can't stay healthy. You can argue that he should have had more depth behind them, but they are both talented when they are playing.
Let's hope they actually followed through.
To me John Mara is shaped by two contradictory forces. He remembers the failure of the 70s. He knows his father held on to people well beyond their talent and usefulness out of loyalty and is determined not to make those mistakes. At the same time hie is influenced by his love and respect of his father and how he conducted himself as a man and owner. As a result I think there will be more half measures as he tries to find balance between the two poles.
amazed that people are shocked by this.
Eh. The Schwartz and Beason contracts are both jokes.
Quote:
In comment 12736538 Jon in NYC said:
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roster than Reese is.
so schwartz, beason, not addressing the FS or LB positions the last few years is not reese' fault?
I don't care who runs the draft. Reese is the head of all player personal moves. He gets the final say. He needs to be held accountable.
Schwartz and Beason are both good players who can't stay healthy. You can argue that he should have had more depth behind them, but they are both talented when they are playing.
Beason had an injury history way before the Giants got him
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In comment 12736535 David in LA said:
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.
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
Serious question
It's been discussed ad nauseum.
Wow, good answer! Well when people start with their "indignant bitching" quoting you, remember you've discussed it ad nauseum.
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roster than Reese is.
Me too. If Ross still has a job when this is all over, then I'm joining the pitchforks and torches crew.
Me too
I like Reese.
If this team and even last year's team stayed remotely healthy, who knows?
Just a few less injuries this season likely means the Giants make the playoffs, and we aren't having these conversations today. Reese-bashers still would bash eventually, but TC would be preparing to hoist the Packers.
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this should not be a surprise. His fate is tied to the next head coach. However, let's see what happens with Ross and other scouts.
amazed that people are shocked by this.
So that gives him what, another three years at least?
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Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
Should skip this guys posts...the stupidity and ignorance from him has gone on for awhile now...
Burn the tickets and let the Maras know this is unacceptable.
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In comment 12736594 Bleedin Blue said:
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In comment 12736535 David in LA said:
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.
David, why would our bitching be indignant?? Why does he get off, but TC gets roasted here alive. For TC it was his time, sad to see him go, but again I ask Why is it indignant bitching, if some think Reese shouldn't be safe?
Serious question
It's been discussed ad nauseum.
Wow, good answer! Well when people start with their "indignant bitching" quoting you, remember you've discussed it ad nauseum.
There are hundreds of threads covering this.
Yep
Burn the tickets and let the Maras know this is unacceptable.
I've already stated that the clock should be ticking on Reese. YOu're just a fucking moron who is too dumb to pick up on nuanced positions.
I agree with this thinking. Tom was tired of pitiful rosters constructed by some hack.
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In comment 12736562 TMS said:
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Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
Should skip this guys posts...the stupidity and ignorance from him has gone on for awhile now...
I won't mention names but you'd be stunned at the posters who thought Reese was a diversity interview and/or hiring. You'd be stunned.
Yup
Wellington Mara was loyal -- to a fault -- to those within his organization. John Mara is very much like his father.
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In comment 12736546 Matt in SGS said:
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this should not be a surprise. His fate is tied to the next head coach. However, let's see what happens with Ross and other scouts.
amazed that people are shocked by this.
So that gives him what, another three years at least?
Depends on the coach selection, but 3-4 years, yes.
Now I wonder if the mods will actually do something about your attitude since you keep violating TOS by attacking other people who dare disagree with you in this thread and others.
Between contracts to players that have had injury history, to Beatty's contract, big misses in rounds past #1. We have filled roster with special team players, and guys from other teams that were just plain awful.
get us out of Blesto too
Marc Ross put us in there , if I recall correctly
Nice
Gotta love this place
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In comment 12736597 David in LA said:
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In comment 12736562 TMS said:
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Here.
TMS : 2:42 pm : link : reply
RE: This will be the worst decision in Giants history
TMS : 2:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 12736099 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Keep the HoF HC and QB together for three more years. Get rid of the fuck ups evaluating talent! The problems with this team cannot be more clear yet we will kick ourselves in the nuts and go thru 4-5 HCs before finding a good one again. It is as hard as finding a franchise QB.
Totally agree but JR was projected as the next Ozzie Newsome with Ross to follow hopefully. This is about political correctness and diversity hiring in the NFL. Times change. You have to live with it. IMO
Doubling down on the stupid huh? Please tell me how this was a diversity hiring.
Should skip this guys posts...the stupidity and ignorance from him has gone on for awhile now...
I won't mention names but you'd be stunned at the posters who thought Reese was a diversity interview and/or hiring. You'd be stunned.
Your right, I'am sure there are more than the obvious...pretty disappointing too.
Once McAdoo is announced as the head coach, it will be complete.
yeah I am conerned about this as well
After providing my well thought out views on the Empty Suit since he took the GM position on January 16, 2007 I must admit I'm growing tired of it. The end must be coming soon.
Lettuce pray!
Oh yeah. He's been knocking it out of the park in FA, too.
what a fucking idiotic turn of events.
You have the softest shoulders of any poster I now.
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As Obama is president.
You are why we can't have nice things
Neither got the job done, very polarizing and forced out competent staff.
What a well thought out, pragmatic thing to say. YOu've already sailed past the point where you lost your damn mind. Plus it only reinforces the 'demographic' comment made by another poster.
what a fucking idiotic turn of events.
Only if he gets injured again this season!
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Comment deleted from thread 528487In comment 12736730 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
As Obama is president.
You are why we can't have nice things
Neither got the job done, very polarizing and forced out competent staff.
Let's try to keep it to football. I've seen a few of your posts today so I'm well aware that you're a POS but try to keep the stench down.
You have the softest shoulders of any poster I now.
The next accurate statement you post would be your first. Again, you are a mental midget.
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In comment 12736538 Jon in NYC said:
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roster than Reese is.
so schwartz, beason, not addressing the FS or LB positions the last few years is not reese' fault?
I don't care who runs the draft. Reese is the head of all player personal moves. He gets the final say. He needs to be held accountable.
Schwartz and Beason are both good players who can't stay healthy. You can argue that he should have had more depth behind them, but they are both talented when they are playing.
They each had a history of not being healthy. Reese new that going in.
Agreed. Forcing a head coach to accept the holdover assistants is a really foolish move.
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Comment deleted from thread 528487In comment 12736730 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
As Obama is president.
You are why we can't have nice things
Neither got the job done, very polarizing and forced out competent staff.
You're dense, aren't you?
Get it out of your heads that the Young-era deal where the owners stay out of football operations is still in force. It's gone, trashed, shredded. And quit making fun of Jerrah as we now have our own.
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In comment 12736636 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
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In comment 12736546 Matt in SGS said:
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this should not be a surprise. His fate is tied to the next head coach. However, let's see what happens with Ross and other scouts.
amazed that people are shocked by this.
So that gives him what, another three years at least?
Depends on the coach selection, but 3-4 years, yes.
Great job if you can get it. You can leave your team defenseless and be guaranteed of another 3-4 years.
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The fans should demand Jerry Reese's head.
Burn the tickets and let the Maras know this is unacceptable.
I've already stated that the clock should be ticking on Reese. YOu're just a fucking moron who is too dumb to pick up on nuanced positions.
Yeah don't forget this so called Giant fan lives in LA. He's probably smoking mushrooms and listening to H Rap Brown revolution speeches.
Linval Joseph, Marty B, Beason were in his control. The fact is that you struggle to find good calls among his calls in recent years both in the draft and in his FA decisions.
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In comment 12736745 Wuphat said:
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Comment deleted from thread 528487In comment 12736730 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
As Obama is president.
You are why we can't have nice things
Neither got the job done, very polarizing and forced out competent staff.
Let's try to keep it to football. I've seen a few of your posts today so I'm well aware that you're a POS but try to keep the stench down.
Show me where I'm wrong..
Correct, and upper management will point to those as ballast for keeping Reese at the helm, while also acknowledging he needs to make staff changes and he's now on notice for turning this around, quickly.
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In comment 12736673 BigBlueCane said:
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The fans should demand Jerry Reese's head.
Burn the tickets and let the Maras know this is unacceptable.
I've already stated that the clock should be ticking on Reese. YOu're just a fucking moron who is too dumb to pick up on nuanced positions.
Yeah don't forget this so called Giant fan lives in LA. He's probably smoking mushrooms and listening to H Rap Brown revolution speeches.
I grew up in Queens, dipshit.
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In comment 12736773 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
In comment 12736745 Wuphat said:
Quote:
Comment deleted from thread 528487In comment 12736730 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
As Obama is president.
You are why we can't have nice things
Neither got the job done, very polarizing and forced out competent staff.
Let's try to keep it to football. I've seen a few of your posts today so I'm well aware that you're a POS but try to keep the stench down.
Show me where I'm wrong..
Let's try sticking to football first. Try that.
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The nightmare scenario is if they push McAdoo and/or Spags on a new head coach. That can't happen.
Agreed. Forcing a head coach to accept the holdover assistants is a really foolish move.
Yes...not only do you want a coach to bring in what he wants, but this doesn't necessarily make the job attractive to potential candidates if they will have staff forced on them.
I just hope he doesn't choose the coach. Because whoever they bring in, if in 1 year they still suck, Reese needs to go. If he brings in the coach then the new GM will be stuck with a coach for at least 2 years.
It's amazing that so many of the guys he drafted, step up when needed.
Players like....like......errr.......um...
...........OH!....nevermind
All State we ain't.
Agreed. But who knows next year. We'll see.
Oh well. Some folks just can't keep politics out of any discussion.
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Comment deleted from thread 528487In comment 12736730 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
As Obama is president.
You are why we can't have nice things
Neither got the job done, very polarizing and forced out competent staff.
.
Fine skip my posts. WTF do you think you are that everybody has to answer to your criticism one way or the other? We all are entitled to our opinions and not waste our time debating with you. All you do is attack other posters trying to generate responses. Get a life ASSHOLE and stop haunting this board looking for one.
Seems wrong he gets to stay. I refuse to believe there is no one out there who could assemble a winner around Eli.
the giants have demonstrated convincingly that they have the capacity to reinvent themselves. i have faith they will do it again now.
still blows, though.
Once McAdoo is announced as the head coach, it will be complete.
+10000
Replace the OC
Replace the DC
Replace the HC
Apparently the OC and DC are still here
Going to find a HC
Oh boy
Barring an organizational meltdown, I think Reese probably has two years to fix the mess.
Replace the OC
Replace the DC
Replace the HC
Apparently the OC and DC are still here
Going to find a HC
Oh boy
Oh, and a colorless stadium
Once McAdoo is announced as the head coach, it will be complete.
LOL. My thoughts exactly.
It may not be what people want (I don't), but people need to just accept it and hope for the best at this point.
Probably true.
We all know that this has been a combination of injuries, bad luck, and incompetence. The Reese hiring was the job of EA. He was hired by George Young. So let's hold onto that ray of hope that Reese learns from his mistakes and with a new coach, maybe, just maybe, we get a new strength and conditioning coach and possibly a little luck also, and Reese can turn things around.
I would rather think that way then continue to bitch and complain. I don't have to apologize to anyone, I know how long and how true a Giant fan I have been. I know how pathetic Wellington Mara was, I know first hand, not reading about it. But living it. I am going to choose to hope that Reese can get a little lucky, we stay healthy, and bring in the right coach from here.
I do think it is going to be McAdoo by the way, and we will see if that works or not.
He won't be missed, if he's gone.
That's true. But if the bar for a GM's acumen is "majority opinion of BBI" then we are really in trouble!
The point is that it was clearly a mistake to not give Marty B that contract given the terrible tight end play Reese has procured since the Black Unicorn's departure both in the passing and running games.
Some heads better roll under Jerry Reese and he had better have his FA cap on this spring because it's go time.
I think it is absolutely disgraceful for TC to take the fall for the ineptitude of this team the past few years while JR gets to keep his seat in the ivory tower.
I hope TC continues to coach in the NFL and achieves tremendous success.
Simple as that.
He didn't build the 2007 team
Reese has definitely shit the bed recently, but let's be honest, he would get a job in 5 minutes if he got fired.
The blown 4th quarters were awful this year, but there's not going to be a coach who can get this shit roster to even keep games close coming through the door.
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Reese should be allowed to have a say in his new coach. GMs that build two championship teams don't grow on trees
He didn't build the 2007 team
Coulda fooled me. He certainly was a major help. Was head of scouting in the years prior and put together an excellent draft in 2007.
Fans should go HARD at Reese and demand his head.
Fans should go HARD at Reese and demand his head.
He need to relax. Go get laid or something.
if it wasn't for the 07 draft Reese provided , the Giants dont win the superbowl 07
but yea be sure to leave that out of your argument..
The Giants only look at who is best suited to lead the team forward. That's all.
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In comment 12737008 Rflairr said:
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Reese should be allowed to have a say in his new coach. GMs that build two championship teams don't grow on trees
He didn't build the 2007 team
Coulda fooled me. He certainly was a major help. Was head of scouting in the years prior and put together an excellent draft in 2007.
Then the head of scouting should get credit for 2011.
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apparently don't get fired.
if it wasn't for the 07 draft Reese provided , the Giants dont win the superbowl 07
but yea be sure to leave that out of your argument..
Same can be said for Acorsi's 2005 FA class.
They've done it without him
Philly jamming it up our ass wouldn't be any change from Coughlin's tenure.
Look at the types of players the past two years that were selected, much more in line with 2007 selections... more leadership, captain, passion-type qualities... as opposed to the drafts that were manned by Ross -- soft players emotionally and physically, non vocal, laissez faire, and not long for the Giants or NFL.
I can see the Giants keeping and promoting McAdoo, they value him highly and better to grow with him too early than losing him if they don't want to see him out the door. Also I think the calculation here is that they like Spags as well, and he's not going to be a hot HC candidate. So if anything you promote McAdoo to keep the continuity with Spags, and Spags can be McAdoo's Dick Lebeau, a long timer at DC if we can address the talent situation.
The only scenario I see a coordinator being forced on a coach is if Cowher comes in I can see BM continuing on if they can convince BM he is the heir apparent, but that's not as clear so if they like him later, might as well like him now.
Simple as that.
Yup.. And not coming off a bye and shitting the bed, like this team always do!! Washington was a quarter away from pitching a damn shutout. The talent is bad. But the coaching has been worse. And it didn't just start this season
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and jam it up our ass
Philly jamming it up our ass wouldn't be any change from Coughlin's tenure.
Yeah, kinda doubt they'll fall over themselves to hire the guy they've owned.
What a great day this turned out to be
Who's left as a defensive starter who could start on a good team? DRC and Hankins. Not sure about Hankins yet. He has missed 12 of 48 games with injuries.
Collins can tackle at least. He might turn into a good player. Moore showed some potential as a pass rusher, but he's gone.
This could be the start of a new dark age like that of the 70s when the defense was soft as cotton and 17 years went by without a winning record.
If Giants hire Cowher he will want a defense that can attack all angles on the field but especially athletic LBers who can blitz, cover etc.
We don't have a single stable dependable LBer right now never mind one that is good.
And then the Giants will dominate Philly,, like Philly has been dominating the Giants.
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and jam it up our ass
Philly jamming it up our ass wouldn't be any change from Coughlin's tenure.
Philly is a terrible job for Coughlin because of the fact the Eagles are in need now of a multi year retool. He'd also kill any goodwill with the Giants or the fanbase by taking the Eagles job.
They are almost as weak on the lines as we are. In fact I would argue their offensive line is worse much worse than ours.
You know who you are. I suspect no one will admit it but you know i'm right.
With marginally better coaching this year, the team is 10-6, with the same talent. Let's see if next years DC starts Markus Kuhn!
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
With marginally better coaching this year, the team is 10-6, with the same talent. Let's see if next years DC starts Markus Kuhn!
They're both responsible, which is what the majority of people here are saying. It's only the biased people towards one of these two guys that can't seem to handle it and are comparing them to past coaches and past GMs because they're all butt-hurt about it. Reese and Coughlin had an awful past 4 years. THEY are responsible more than anyone else. Deal with that, people.
Ok some of his FA moves were shaky. Schwartz hasn't panned out but you can't blame Reese for signing the guy. HE got hurt. It happens.
If we still suck this time next year or show no progress and we strike out or hand out bad contracts in the coming FA period ok fine, kill Reese but until then STFU--it's not easy to maintain a winning model in today's NFL especially when you factor in the obscene amount of career ending injuries this team suffered. Explain to me how drafting Mario Manningham and Nicks and Steve Smith and Phillips and finding Cruz were dumb moves? How can you blame the GM when good young players go down for good due to injury and the team can't bounce back overnight?
Watch the niners suck ass for another two years. Tell me that mgmt over there forgot how to find talent. They didn't they are simply under siege with injuries and or retirements. Shit happens.
With marginally better coaching this year, the team is 10-6, with the same talent. Let's see if next years DC starts Markus Kuhn!
then why are all the ex players going in on the Front Office. Shaun O'Hara, Toomer, Snee (i know he has obligations). Are going on social media destroying the teams roster.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
Reese has no more excuses or whipping boys. Unfortunately by the time he gets canned it will be to late.
1970's here we come again
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
Truth
Marshall Newhouse is "okay" at right tackle. Not great, not even good but "okay."
His contract is also a bargain.
If you don't think this team is better off than 2013 and even 2012 then I don't know what to say. You may not see it but I do. This team is closer to 11 wins than the 2012 team was. Young team with cap space is a good thing.
And the Giants will recover from the Beason and Schwartz signing and don't tell me you knew that Schwartz was going to be hurt all the time here. No one knew that. Beason....yes.
But in the typical Giants fashion we make a move that is mind bogglingly stupid. I don't know why; but was was stupid. We were one of the few teams in the NFL with a HoF coach and HoF QB. Miraculously, we had that. We also had fuckups at the GM scouting side but that could have been fixed. Keep the HoF HC and QB together; it is a rare thing. Get somene to scout and choose better players. That was the good move.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
Yup
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Contracts like Beason and Schwartz are not progress. Alot of the draft picks, as well. Stop.
If you don't think this team is better off than 2013 and even 2012 then I don't know what to say. You may not see it but I do. This team is closer to 11 wins than the 2012 team was. Young team with cap space is a good thing.
And the Giants will recover from the Beason and Schwartz signing and don't tell me you knew that Schwartz was going to be hurt all the time here. No one knew that. Beason....yes.
Outside of Eli and Beckham, where is the talent? If this team is making progress, there should be more talent on the team than two guys, one of which is a 35 year old franchise QB.
Going 6-10 two seasons in a row doesn't show awhole lot of progress. Being well over 10 games under .500 since Hurricane Sandy doesn't show any progress. The insane amount of holes on the roster still to this day also does not indicate progress. The only positive thing we have going for us right now (outside of Eli and Beckham) is the cap space we have this off-season. That's it. Reese better hit a couple of HRs this offseason, in the draft, too.
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Reese should be allowed to have a say in his new coach. GMs that build two championship teams don't grow on trees
He didn't build the 2007 team
He most certainly did help build that team.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
If that's good, I would hate to see bad. His 3-5 picks have been close to abysmal. With ridiculous picks like Robinson, Taylor and Thompson and reaches like Bromley
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
Like I said in another topic (sarcastically), Reese IMO absolutely needs to go, but on this board, you'd think Reese was the worst GM in the NFL since 2000 next to Matt Millen and he held this team back from winning 4-5 Superbowls.
Well if you won't I will. Give the bum the heave ho!!
Ownership won't position themselves to replace the 2 most important roles in management at the same time. Shit teams like the Titans and Browns do shit like that.
They kept the employee with the best chance to recover and best chance to contribute over the long-term.
Coughlin and Reese did very good things for this team over long tenures. They've also under-performed in streaks, blurred by historically significant amounts of injuries.
Unfortunately for Tom, the proof is always on the field. The GM built a roster with 53 guys, good enough to claim leads for 50+ mins in a half-dozen games, and then suddenly sucked and sank the season?
Who knows. Maybe it was a miracle for Coughlin to get Reese's bad roster that far.
If you really despise Reese, you'll get your chance to dance on his grave a year from today. He's picking a new coach, has significant cap room/flexibility and a premium draft pick. If this team isn't better next year, he's gone.
But don't get all whiney the Giants didn't ditch the GM and coach at the same time.
Even with the shitty end of game coaching, the Giants still outperformed their talent level.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
Exactly. He has some good in there, but for quite awhile now it's been mostly bad.
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams."
NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams."
NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
The Giants only look at who is best suited to lead the team forward. That's all.
and you know this how?
Look at the types of players the past two years that were selected, much more in line with 2007 selections... more leadership, captain, passion-type qualities... as opposed to the drafts that were manned by Ross -- soft players emotionally and physically, non vocal, laissez faire, and not long for the Giants or NFL.
I can see the Giants keeping and promoting McAdoo, they value him highly and better to grow with him too early than losing him if they don't want to see him out the door. Also I think the calculation here is that they like Spags as well, and he's not going to be a hot HC candidate. So if anything you promote McAdoo to keep the continuity with Spags, and Spags can be McAdoo's Dick Lebeau, a long timer at DC if we can address the talent situation.
The only scenario I see a coordinator being forced on a coach is if Cowher comes in I can see BM continuing on if they can convince BM he is the heir apparent, but that's not as clear so if they like him later, might as well like him now.
I think the team will keep McAdoo where he is and hire an experienced HC to mentor him for a few years, unless someone hires him away from us.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
They blame the owner(s)- Who is now an idiot.
They blame McAdoo
They blame Spags.
Reese needs to do better. But to discount Reese's 2 Super Bowl rings, is just silly and childish.
But for the last four years, Eli has been in his prime and injury free. And paid "elite" status money. Yet, what's been the dividend?
To not be able to assemble the right fitting parts around that, on both sides of the ball, is strong indication that Reese has slipped. And slipped dramatically the wrong way. Letting him keep his job is an insult to the customer base.
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how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Otherwise...
You know who you are. I suspect no one will admit it but you know i'm right.
Right here. I hated Ernie. I have to give him credit for Eli (though as I've said, it's not like he was all on his own in thinking Eli was a potential franchise QB) and some excellent FA signings, but his draft record both with the Browns and the Giants was mixed at best. People blast Reese for the recent OL but forget how awful the OLs Accorsi put together in 2003-04 were.
Ernie's best gifts, as they always have been, lie in his first position in the NFL - PR. Few people are better self-promoters than Ernie Accorsi.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Otherwise...
And that's perfectly legitimate. However, I'd say the same thing goes for Coughlin's assistant coaches. His defenders like to gripe about his coordinators as if he weren't the guy who hired them.
Bingo, Rob! I would like to see changes to the medical/conditioning staff. Top 3 in the league in injured reserve year after year means something has to change. This killed Coughlin and makes Reese look worse than he is.
As for Reese...he has had bad moments and I think he picks too many "projects" or takes fliers on early round injury prone players but he DID win two trophies and the Beckham/Flowers picks have given him new life. Here's to hoping he hits on some in the coming years as it seems he is here to stay. To clean house that drastically (fire HC and GM) is not the Giants way.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
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In comment 12737393 djm said:
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how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
I get that we had a ton of injuries at FS. But the backup plan to McCourty seemed to be, "I hope one of these guys works out." That all of them got injured doesn't change the fact that the Giants had no idea how good they were going to be at FS in game 1. Same thing with Donnell. "I hope he takes the next step." That may be fine, but this year, "I hope" seemed to be the backup plan for an awful lot of positions.
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too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
The Mara's would never fire an African American GM it would be against every thing they stand for Left Wing Liberal and Catholic. Never, Reese has a job for life. I'm sure Tisch would fire his ass though.
Use any other business for your reference...
Retail manager,
Office manager,
General contractor,
You name it.
Your hiring manager/HR Personel manager continues to hire unqualified employees and you as the Manager are constantly turning over your staff and results are poor. Are there no repercussions for the personel manager?
I hope TC during his meeting name his defensive players...And if he did I hope Mara said Jasper who?
[quote] means making sure the people under you are performing their jobs as well.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Charles: This was a comment someone made to you quite awhile back. Remember? "These people would screw up a 2-car funeral if left to their own devices." Do you now believe? As I recall, you didn't then."
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how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
well put
Great, then the new GM will want ANOTHER new head coach and Eli gets older. We're at the edge of the abyss boys.
You don't fire a guy like Coughlin with his pedigree.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Very frustrating turn of events. Makes me sick to my stomach.
I been wrong before, but I really look forward to all the 90% of the BBI eating their words.
Ja, es ist Deutsch!
K. Phillips, S. Smith, J. Alford, T. Thomas, J. Goff, H. Nicks, T. Beckum, C. Sintum, C. Jones, JPP, D. Wilson.
All of these players were 25 & under before suffering career ending/altering injuries.
There is not another NFL franchise that is remotely close to having this happen to them.
It has a cumulative effect - you lose top talent and young depth and then you have to re-draft that or allocate FA resources. Your Plan-A got all F'd up and now Plan B & C are in place but your Plan A elsewhere is messed up.
His FA are generally good when they play. He got snake bit again with Canty & Baas who never missed time until they were with the Giants. Boley was a good player. Harris & Vereen have been good. I think Casillas has value
He has faults - Sintim was a bad pick due to fit. Austin was a huge gamble. Giving Beason money was not good.
He does not miss in rd 1 and generally is very good in round 2. His issue, until recently was his missing on most 3rd rd picks.
This now is the year - he has money and a say in the new coach.
The same people blaming Reese sadly don't follow the organization's draft process . . . still.
I believe Coughlin bears a lot of the blame for this mess, notably his inability to correct assess defensive coordinators springs to mind.
However, there is plenty of blame to go around and the situation we have now, has people attempting to deny any blame exists.
Ok I am the first to say that Reese definitely has some blame to share in the lack of talent on the roster. But this mindset around here that Reese is some clueless boob who just got lucky is ridiculous..
A GM that got lucky when Accorsi stepped down..
Somehow you ignore the fact that it was Reese who was the director of pro personnel from 2004-2007 and it was Reese who coordinated the Giants’ college scouting, and was in charge of the team’s draft preparation and ran the draft room as the players were selected.
That means Reese was very much a part of the selection of Chris Snee, Reggie Torbor amd Gibril Wilson all players who started on a Superbowl team. I believe it was also reported somewhere that it was Reese who convinced Accorsi that Osi should not be included in any trade for Eli.
This means Reese was also part of the team that selected Corey Webster, Justin Tuck and Brandon Jacobs.
Reese also ran the 2007 draft which produced Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Jay Alford, Kevin Boss, Michael Johnson, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Zak DeOssie. All players who contributed to a Superbowl.
Also directly responsible for the drafting of JPP, Prince, Nicks, Manningham.
Reese has also found some gems who helped the Giants get to and win Superbowls like Chase Blackburn. Victor Cruz. Jake Ballard. Domenick Hixon, Madison Hedgecock.
Reese has even hit a few times in Free Agency with players like Kavika Mitchell, Rolle, Boley, Deon Grant who all helped win a title and lately DRC who has been the best corner the Giants have had in a while.
You also have to give Reese credit for OBJ and Richburg who look like solid players for years to come.
NOW that being said.. Reese has had some HUGE reaches and some awful bad signings and mistakes.. and is very much responsible for the roster we have now.
However the portrayal of him as some clueless moron is WAY off base..
They both deserved to stay.
Manningham - 25
Nicks - 24
Ballard - 24
Cruz - 25
4 years later, all of them may be finished. That's horrendous fucking luck.
Manningham - 25
Nicks - 24
Ballard - 24
Cruz - 25
4 years later, all of them may be finished. That's horrendous fucking luck.
Is it?
The average career length in the NFL is 3.3 years. The average for wide receivers is 2.81 years.
Link?
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Link?
Great. Now I'm even more depressed.
Thanks, dude.
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In comment 12737602 Simms11 said:
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too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
The Mara's would never fire an African American GM it would be against every thing they stand for Left Wing Liberal and Catholic. Never, Reese has a job for life. I'm sure Tisch would fire his ass though.
This post is my favorite - on a day with plenty of stupid, this went above and beyond the call of duty to impress.
Because you know those crazy Irish Catholic billionaire liberals, they'll do anything for an African American.
What? Young and dumb is preferable to old and smart?
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The fans should demand Jerry Reese's head.
Burn the tickets and let the Maras know this is unacceptable.
I've already stated that the clock should be ticking on Reese. YOu're just a fucking moron who is too dumb to pick up on nuanced positions.
Ah! The 'nuanced positions'. Like 'fence sitting"?
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In comment 12736773 Coughlin's Rules said:
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In comment 12736745 Wuphat said:
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Comment deleted from thread 528487In comment 12736730 Coughlin's Rules said:
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As Obama is president.
You are why we can't have nice things
Neither got the job done, very polarizing and forced out competent staff.
Let's try to keep it to football. I've seen a few of your posts today so I'm well aware that you're a POS but try to keep the stench down.
Show me where I'm wrong..
C.R. Here's where you're wrong; no one could possibly be that bad.
Is it?
The average career length in the NFL is 3.3 years. The average for wide receivers is 2.81 years.
Let's look at the top 15 players in receiving yards in 2011, of whom Cruz and Nicks are a part of. Do you know who the 2 least productive players during 2014/2015 are among that group of 15? Cruz and Nicks. Do you know who're the 2 least productive players on the list of 15 in terms of career receptions? Cruz and Nicks. Here's the crazy part... Nicks is the 3rd youngest in that group of 15 and Cruz is the 5th youngest.
The "average career length" doesn't appear to have affected anyone else in that group of 15 except for Cruz and Nicks. That's bad luck.
I have said over and over that Reese did a bad job mainly in 2011-2012--those two drafts were misses to say the least. But Wilson may have been a good player if not for injury. Not to absolve him completely but there have been mitigating factors that contributed to the bad drafts. There usually is.
Anyone saying the 2010 draft was poor doesn't know wtf they are talking about. JPP and Joseph played integral parts on a super bowl team. That in itself says that draft was successful.
Yes, Reese had a bad stretch. So did Coughlin. So did Eli in 2013 and parts of 2014 and 2015. No one is exempt here. But the last 3 drafts have looked much better and you can't deny that.
Reese is on watch here and he should be. But I don't think it's foolish to keep him as GM and replace the HC. Any move they made here was risky. Cleaning house is never a good thing if it can be avoided and to say that Reese is a terrible GM while looking at his entire body of work here just spits in the face of reality. Some of you are exaggerating.
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being ranked 23rd in drafting for the 5 years 2010-2014? The main job of the department he heads has failed in my opinion and that of many others, someone asked for some kind of independent analysis, which I posted on 2 threads, but all you guys can do is make wisecracks and insult those who think Reese is getting a free pass after TC fell on his sword? Brilliant minds.
I have said over and over that Reese did a bad job mainly in 2011-2012--those two drafts were misses to say the least. But Wilson may have been a good player if not for injury. Not to absolve him completely but there have been mitigating factors that contributed to the bad drafts. There usually is.
Anyone saying the 2010 draft was poor doesn't know wtf they are talking about. JPP and Joseph played integral parts on a super bowl team. That in itself says that draft was successful.
Yes, Reese had a bad stretch. So did Coughlin. So did Eli in 2013 and parts of 2014 and 2015. No one is exempt here. But the last 3 drafts have looked much better and you can't deny that.
Reese is on watch here and he should be. But I don't think it's foolish to keep him as GM and replace the HC. Any move they made here was risky. Cleaning house is never a good thing if it can be avoided and to say that Reese is a terrible GM while looking at his entire body of work here just spits in the face of reality. Some of you are exaggerating.
1) the rating is based on the totality of the 5 years
2) Look closely, the last 3 drafts have followed the same Reese pattern: hit in the 1st round, 50/50 in the 2nd, zippo from the 3rd on down.
I get that rd 4 down is always dicey. You have to get lucky and hit some there. But you HAVE to do better in Rounds 2 and 3. The 1st 3 rounds are your premium picks.