The quality of players taken in the draft and Undrafted FA has steadily declined. Andy Reid fired him and he went to Buffalo for one year when the Bills were awful. Our UFA signings have went south after DG went to Carolina.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
Contracts like Beason and Schwartz are not progress. Alot of the draft picks, as well. Stop.
If you don't think this team is better off than 2013 and even 2012 then I don't know what to say. You may not see it but I do. This team is closer to 11 wins than the 2012 team was. Young team with cap space is a good thing.
And the Giants will recover from the Beason and Schwartz signing and don't tell me you knew that Schwartz was going to be hurt all the time here. No one knew that. Beason....yes.
Outside of Eli and Beckham, where is the talent? If this team is making progress, there should be more talent on the team than two guys, one of which is a 35 year old franchise QB.
Going 6-10 two seasons in a row doesn't show awhole lot of progress. Being well over 10 games under .500 since Hurricane Sandy doesn't show any progress. The insane amount of holes on the roster still to this day also does not indicate progress. The only positive thing we have going for us right now (outside of Eli and Beckham) is the cap space we have this off-season. That's it. Reese better hit a couple of HRs this offseason, in the draft, too.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
If that's good, I would hate to see bad. His 3-5 picks have been close to abysmal. With ridiculous picks like Robinson, Taylor and Thompson and reaches like Bromley
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
Like I said in another topic (sarcastically), Reese IMO absolutely needs to go, but on this board, you'd think Reese was the worst GM in the NFL since 2000 next to Matt Millen and he held this team back from winning 4-5 Superbowls.
RE: I don't want to advocate that a guy get fired,
but one of the main reasons the Giants fell apart after 2011 (and one of the reasons they almost missed the playoffs in 2011) was because the offensive line completely fell apart after 2010. It has been five freaking years, and the line is still only half fixed. Any front office that can't fix a personnel problem in five years is not going to have success in the NFL.
Well if you won't I will. Give the bum the heave ho!!
Ownership won't fire a GM who's never had a hand choosing the head coach.
Ownership won't position themselves to replace the 2 most important roles in management at the same time. Shit teams like the Titans and Browns do shit like that.
They kept the employee with the best chance to recover and best chance to contribute over the long-term.
Coughlin and Reese did very good things for this team over long tenures. They've also under-performed in streaks, blurred by historically significant amounts of injuries.
Unfortunately for Tom, the proof is always on the field. The GM built a roster with 53 guys, good enough to claim leads for 50+ mins in a half-dozen games, and then suddenly sucked and sank the season?
Who knows. Maybe it was a miracle for Coughlin to get Reese's bad roster that far.
If you really despise Reese, you'll get your chance to dance on his grave a year from today. He's picking a new coach, has significant cap room/flexibility and a premium draft pick. If this team isn't better next year, he's gone.
But don't get all whiney the Giants didn't ditch the GM and coach at the same time.
The bottom line is that his drafts and FA moves have not been as good as the good teams around the NFL. People can point to injuries and other excuses, but that's pretty much it. You have to hit on some late rounders and you have to make smart FA moves. Just take a look around the league -- the playoff teams are the ones who have simply drafted better than we have.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
ridiculous. By all accounts, the Giants' GMs own the first pick and have the final say in later rounds, but they almost invariably stick to their draft board as the draft progresses. Reese built the draft board from 2003-07 for drafts that yielded Tuck, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Diehl, Wilson, Osi, Ross, Boss, Smith, and Ward. You're going to tell me those guys weren't essential to winning that year?
The bottom line is that his drafts and FA moves have not been as good as the good teams around the NFL. People can point to injuries and other excuses, but that's pretty much it. You have to hit on some late rounders and you have to make smart FA moves. Just take a look around the league -- the playoff teams are the ones who have simply drafted better than we have.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
Exactly. He has some good in there, but for quite awhile now it's been mostly bad.
It rates teams last 5 drafts starting in 2010 ending in 2014. The Giants are 23rd of 32.
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams." NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
I posted this column from the NY Post from April 2015
It rates teams last 5 drafts starting in 2010 ending in 2014. The Giants are 23rd of 32.
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams." NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
I have a inkling that Reese tried to right the ship by taking control of the the steering wheel the past few years after seeing the ship plummeting with Ross captaining the draft.
Look at the types of players the past two years that were selected, much more in line with 2007 selections... more leadership, captain, passion-type qualities... as opposed to the drafts that were manned by Ross -- soft players emotionally and physically, non vocal, laissez faire, and not long for the Giants or NFL.
I can see the Giants keeping and promoting McAdoo, they value him highly and better to grow with him too early than losing him if they don't want to see him out the door. Also I think the calculation here is that they like Spags as well, and he's not going to be a hot HC candidate. So if anything you promote McAdoo to keep the continuity with Spags, and Spags can be McAdoo's Dick Lebeau, a long timer at DC if we can address the talent situation.
The only scenario I see a coordinator being forced on a coach is if Cowher comes in I can see BM continuing on if they can convince BM he is the heir apparent, but that's not as clear so if they like him later, might as well like him now.
I think the team will keep McAdoo where he is and hire an experienced HC to mentor him for a few years, unless someone hires him away from us.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
The "Fire Reese" folks just have no grip on reality.
I guess it's fair to say Reese has performed his job duties competently.
But for the last four years, Eli has been in his prime and injury free. And paid "elite" status money. Yet, what's been the dividend?
To not be able to assemble the right fitting parts around that, on both sides of the ball, is strong indication that Reese has slipped. And slipped dramatically the wrong way. Letting him keep his job is an insult to the customer base.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
to all the people that killed Accorsi around 2003.
You know who you are. I suspect no one will admit it but you know i'm right.
Right here. I hated Ernie. I have to give him credit for Eli (though as I've said, it's not like he was all on his own in thinking Eli was a potential franchise QB) and some excellent FA signings, but his draft record both with the Browns and the Giants was mixed at best. People blast Reese for the recent OL but forget how awful the OLs Accorsi put together in 2003-04 were.
Ernie's best gifts, as they always have been, lie in his first position in the NFL - PR. Few people are better self-promoters than Ernie Accorsi.
means making sure the people under you are performing their jobs as well.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Otherwise...
And that's perfectly legitimate. However, I'd say the same thing goes for Coughlin's assistant coaches. His defenders like to gripe about his coordinators as if he weren't the guy who hired them.
bring in a new strength/conditioning staff with an emphasis on preventing injuries. If they do that, and the team still leads the league in injuries in 2016, I'll be shocked.
Bingo, Rob! I would like to see changes to the medical/conditioning staff. Top 3 in the league in injured reserve year after year means something has to change. This killed Coughlin and makes Reese look worse than he is.
As for Reese...he has had bad moments and I think he picks too many "projects" or takes fliers on early round injury prone players but he DID win two trophies and the Beckham/Flowers picks have given him new life. Here's to hoping he hits on some in the coming years as it seems he is here to stay. To clean house that drastically (fire HC and GM) is not the Giants way.
RE: Just because Reese is safe now doesn't mean he
too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
I get that we had a ton of injuries at FS. But the backup plan to McCourty seemed to be, "I hope one of these guys works out." That all of them got injured doesn't change the fact that the Giants had no idea how good they were going to be at FS in game 1. Same thing with Donnell. "I hope he takes the next step." That may be fine, but this year, "I hope" seemed to be the backup plan for an awful lot of positions.
too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
The Mara's would never fire an African American GM it would be against every thing they stand for Left Wing Liberal and Catholic. Never, Reese has a job for life. I'm sure Tisch would fire his ass though.
example:
Use any other business for your reference...
Retail manager,
Office manager,
General contractor,
You name it.
Your hiring manager/HR Personel manager continues to hire unqualified employees and you as the Manager are constantly turning over your staff and results are poor. Are there no repercussions for the personel manager?
I hope TC during his meeting name his defensive players...And if he did I hope Mara said Jasper who?
It appears that my dream that I can draft better than Reese, and would be brought in in the TC shuffle, is dashed. But, 10th is not such a bad position, and I will start with the #2WR, who is Odell's twin, after that, Reese and I are not in full agreement. Of course, the new coach need not be consulted.
Reese has done a poor job. Giants have the worst defense in the NFL.
Now that TC is gone Reese is on the hot seat and he better deliver. Lombardi could not have gotten any more out of this roster of practice squad players. Take away Eli and Beckham and this teams has a bunch of injured FA and draft busts.
In comment 12737605 BigBlueCane said:
[quote] means making sure the people under you are performing their jobs as well.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Charles: This was a comment someone made to you quite awhile back. Remember? "These people would screw up a 2-car funeral if left to their own devices." Do you now believe? As I recall, you didn't then."
how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
about the OL....Pugh has been average....a first rounder playing like a mid round guy. Flowers has been up and down...Richburg has been very good.....By my math that leaves three spots that could be upgraded.
As I have posted many times, it is not the injuries, but catastrophic career ending/altering injuries that he has dealt with
K. Phillips, S. Smith, J. Alford, T. Thomas, J. Goff, H. Nicks, T. Beckum, C. Sintum, C. Jones, JPP, D. Wilson.
All of these players were 25 & under before suffering career ending/altering injuries.
There is not another NFL franchise that is remotely close to having this happen to them.
It has a cumulative effect - you lose top talent and young depth and then you have to re-draft that or allocate FA resources. Your Plan-A got all F'd up and now Plan B & C are in place but your Plan A elsewhere is messed up.
His FA are generally good when they play. He got snake bit again with Canty & Baas who never missed time until they were with the Giants. Boley was a good player. Harris & Vereen have been good. I think Casillas has value
He has faults - Sintim was a bad pick due to fit. Austin was a huge gamble. Giving Beason money was not good.
He does not miss in rd 1 and generally is very good in round 2. His issue, until recently was his missing on most 3rd rd picks.
This now is the year - he has money and a say in the new coach.
RE: The same people that are bending over backwards
Proven coach and a GM that got lucky when Acorsi stepped down. Reese is responsible for the roster and to be honest even the best coach in the league right now or last couple of seasons would of failed.I have a hard time with Coughlin leaving. A depleted roster year after year falls on Reese not Coughlin. Coughlin is the scapegoat but the realing problem falls with the GM
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
Yup
Quote:
Contracts like Beason and Schwartz are not progress. Alot of the draft picks, as well. Stop.
If you don't think this team is better off than 2013 and even 2012 then I don't know what to say. You may not see it but I do. This team is closer to 11 wins than the 2012 team was. Young team with cap space is a good thing.
And the Giants will recover from the Beason and Schwartz signing and don't tell me you knew that Schwartz was going to be hurt all the time here. No one knew that. Beason....yes.
Outside of Eli and Beckham, where is the talent? If this team is making progress, there should be more talent on the team than two guys, one of which is a 35 year old franchise QB.
Going 6-10 two seasons in a row doesn't show awhole lot of progress. Being well over 10 games under .500 since Hurricane Sandy doesn't show any progress. The insane amount of holes on the roster still to this day also does not indicate progress. The only positive thing we have going for us right now (outside of Eli and Beckham) is the cap space we have this off-season. That's it. Reese better hit a couple of HRs this offseason, in the draft, too.
Quote:
Reese should be allowed to have a say in his new coach. GMs that build two championship teams don't grow on trees
He didn't build the 2007 team
He most certainly did help build that team.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
If that's good, I would hate to see bad. His 3-5 picks have been close to abysmal. With ridiculous picks like Robinson, Taylor and Thompson and reaches like Bromley
The guy gets absolutely crushed around here and no one wants to even give the guy credit for 05-2011. It's as if he didn't even exist back then. All he did was fail here. Except that is false.
It's fair to acknowledge that Reese and mgmt made some mistakes from around 2011 2012--more than usual, but they were also victimized by some bad luck. And the guy did a fantastic job earlier in his career both as a GM and as the personnel guy. Reese clearly knows what he's doing even if he did fail for a few years.
To sit here and act like Reese is a buffoon with no pelts on his wall just spits in the face of reality. And saying stupid shit like "he believed in Newhouse at RT" is just utter nonsense. HE gave the guy peanuts when there were no other options available. In case you fucking apes forgot, BEATTY GOT FUCKING HURT! Hello?
I give up...just bash the guy and wax poetic about Accorsi who was public enemy #1 before Fassel even got fired.
Like I said in another topic (sarcastically), Reese IMO absolutely needs to go, but on this board, you'd think Reese was the worst GM in the NFL since 2000 next to Matt Millen and he held this team back from winning 4-5 Superbowls.
Well if you won't I will. Give the bum the heave ho!!
Ownership won't position themselves to replace the 2 most important roles in management at the same time. Shit teams like the Titans and Browns do shit like that.
They kept the employee with the best chance to recover and best chance to contribute over the long-term.
Coughlin and Reese did very good things for this team over long tenures. They've also under-performed in streaks, blurred by historically significant amounts of injuries.
Unfortunately for Tom, the proof is always on the field. The GM built a roster with 53 guys, good enough to claim leads for 50+ mins in a half-dozen games, and then suddenly sucked and sank the season?
Who knows. Maybe it was a miracle for Coughlin to get Reese's bad roster that far.
If you really despise Reese, you'll get your chance to dance on his grave a year from today. He's picking a new coach, has significant cap room/flexibility and a premium draft pick. If this team isn't better next year, he's gone.
But don't get all whiney the Giants didn't ditch the GM and coach at the same time.
Even with the shitty end of game coaching, the Giants still outperformed their talent level.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
Overall, I think Reese has been OK, but I think he lacks forward thinking in his approach. This is why the safety position was a disaster in '09, why the OL went to shit, and why the Cupboard is bare at DE.
Exactly. He has some good in there, but for quite awhile now it's been mostly bad.
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams."
NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
"The criteria was based on: How many games the picks played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards won. We also factored in how much the team has won during this period, since players tend to play quicker for worse teams."
NFL Draft: Which teams are the best and worst at picking players - ( New Window )
The Giants only look at who is best suited to lead the team forward. That's all.
and you know this how?
Look at the types of players the past two years that were selected, much more in line with 2007 selections... more leadership, captain, passion-type qualities... as opposed to the drafts that were manned by Ross -- soft players emotionally and physically, non vocal, laissez faire, and not long for the Giants or NFL.
I can see the Giants keeping and promoting McAdoo, they value him highly and better to grow with him too early than losing him if they don't want to see him out the door. Also I think the calculation here is that they like Spags as well, and he's not going to be a hot HC candidate. So if anything you promote McAdoo to keep the continuity with Spags, and Spags can be McAdoo's Dick Lebeau, a long timer at DC if we can address the talent situation.
The only scenario I see a coordinator being forced on a coach is if Cowher comes in I can see BM continuing on if they can convince BM he is the heir apparent, but that's not as clear so if they like him later, might as well like him now.
I think the team will keep McAdoo where he is and hire an experienced HC to mentor him for a few years, unless someone hires him away from us.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
They blame the owner(s)- Who is now an idiot.
They blame McAdoo
They blame Spags.
Reese needs to do better. But to discount Reese's 2 Super Bowl rings, is just silly and childish.
But for the last four years, Eli has been in his prime and injury free. And paid "elite" status money. Yet, what's been the dividend?
To not be able to assemble the right fitting parts around that, on both sides of the ball, is strong indication that Reese has slipped. And slipped dramatically the wrong way. Letting him keep his job is an insult to the customer base.
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how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Otherwise...
You know who you are. I suspect no one will admit it but you know i'm right.
Right here. I hated Ernie. I have to give him credit for Eli (though as I've said, it's not like he was all on his own in thinking Eli was a potential franchise QB) and some excellent FA signings, but his draft record both with the Browns and the Giants was mixed at best. People blast Reese for the recent OL but forget how awful the OLs Accorsi put together in 2003-04 were.
Ernie's best gifts, as they always have been, lie in his first position in the NFL - PR. Few people are better self-promoters than Ernie Accorsi.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Otherwise...
And that's perfectly legitimate. However, I'd say the same thing goes for Coughlin's assistant coaches. His defenders like to gripe about his coordinators as if he weren't the guy who hired them.
Bingo, Rob! I would like to see changes to the medical/conditioning staff. Top 3 in the league in injured reserve year after year means something has to change. This killed Coughlin and makes Reese look worse than he is.
As for Reese...he has had bad moments and I think he picks too many "projects" or takes fliers on early round injury prone players but he DID win two trophies and the Beckham/Flowers picks have given him new life. Here's to hoping he hits on some in the coming years as it seems he is here to stay. To clean house that drastically (fire HC and GM) is not the Giants way.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
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In comment 12737393 djm said:
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how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
In case you weren't paying attention, we made attempts to get MCourty, but he stayed with the Pats. Then 4 FS were injured in camp. He then brought in Merriwhether.
Donnell was supposed to take the next step at TE. They can get same production out of mulitple TEs...
That may change with McAdoo, who may value TE more.
I get that we had a ton of injuries at FS. But the backup plan to McCourty seemed to be, "I hope one of these guys works out." That all of them got injured doesn't change the fact that the Giants had no idea how good they were going to be at FS in game 1. Same thing with Donnell. "I hope he takes the next step." That may be fine, but this year, "I hope" seemed to be the backup plan for an awful lot of positions.
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too isn't on the hot seat and just because the Giants haven't fired a GM before, doesn't mean they won't ever?! That's just a ridiculous notion that keeps surfacing. Who knows what ownership has told him. They could be giving him 2 years with a new coach to fix this mess or else he's next. Ownership knows that there's a talent void on this team and if this GM can't fix it, I'm completely sure they'll find someone else.
one more thing to think about is, just because the owners didn't fire Reese today doesn't mean it won't happen soon.
The Mara's would never fire an African American GM it would be against every thing they stand for Left Wing Liberal and Catholic. Never, Reese has a job for life. I'm sure Tisch would fire his ass though.
Use any other business for your reference...
Retail manager,
Office manager,
General contractor,
You name it.
Your hiring manager/HR Personel manager continues to hire unqualified employees and you as the Manager are constantly turning over your staff and results are poor. Are there no repercussions for the personel manager?
I hope TC during his meeting name his defensive players...And if he did I hope Mara said Jasper who?
[quote] means making sure the people under you are performing their jobs as well.
Marc Ross has not. Chris Mara has not.
In the case of the latter, if the last name is preventing the GM from doing his job, that's a different issue.
Charles: This was a comment someone made to you quite awhile back. Remember? "These people would screw up a 2-car funeral if left to their own devices." Do you now believe? As I recall, you didn't then."
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how hard it is to find good players on the cheap. How hard it is to draft good players in round 3-4-5-6-7. It's next to impossible. Every GM hopes and prays that he can step in shit half the times that Reese has here.
Not every team is the Pats or even the Steelers who seem to never lose great players to long term injury until the guy is 35 fucking years old. Isn't James fucking HArrison STILL making plays for that defense? He's ancient. The Giants are lucky to have a guy make 30 before his body breaks in half and really even that's a stretch. Strahan. Eli. That's IT. Everyone else is toast by 28.
Explain to me how that is Reese's fault and how he's supposed to compensate for that kind of attrition in the cap era. I have news for you, if Reese nailed 4-5-6 more picks the last few years we'd still need a lot of work and still probably be coming off another playoff miss. And if he hit on that many picks his batting average would be off the charts good. Instead it's just good.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at FS. Because it sure looks to me that Reese was hoping one of Jackson, Behre, or Thompson was going to start. Explain to me the plan at the beginning of the year at TE. Because it looks to me like Reese threw a bunch of JAGs names in a hat and let Coughlin pick one. Explain to me the plan at LB. Because it looks like Reese hoped the oft-injured Beason would lead the charge and Reese hoped Spags would wave his magic wand at Casillas or JT Thomas, or Unga and make them into players. I could go on. Explain to me how our FB ends up taking meaningful snaps at DT.
well put
Great, then the new GM will want ANOTHER new head coach and Eli gets older. We're at the edge of the abyss boys.
You don't fire a guy like Coughlin with his pedigree.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Very frustrating turn of events. Makes me sick to my stomach.
I been wrong before, but I really look forward to all the 90% of the BBI eating their words.
Ja, es ist Deutsch!
K. Phillips, S. Smith, J. Alford, T. Thomas, J. Goff, H. Nicks, T. Beckum, C. Sintum, C. Jones, JPP, D. Wilson.
All of these players were 25 & under before suffering career ending/altering injuries.
There is not another NFL franchise that is remotely close to having this happen to them.
It has a cumulative effect - you lose top talent and young depth and then you have to re-draft that or allocate FA resources. Your Plan-A got all F'd up and now Plan B & C are in place but your Plan A elsewhere is messed up.
His FA are generally good when they play. He got snake bit again with Canty & Baas who never missed time until they were with the Giants. Boley was a good player. Harris & Vereen have been good. I think Casillas has value
He has faults - Sintim was a bad pick due to fit. Austin was a huge gamble. Giving Beason money was not good.
He does not miss in rd 1 and generally is very good in round 2. His issue, until recently was his missing on most 3rd rd picks.
This now is the year - he has money and a say in the new coach.
The same people blaming Reese sadly don't follow the organization's draft process . . . still.
I believe Coughlin bears a lot of the blame for this mess, notably his inability to correct assess defensive coordinators springs to mind.
However, there is plenty of blame to go around and the situation we have now, has people attempting to deny any blame exists.