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Jay Glazer of FOX Sports went ballistic on Reese, calling his remark that "everybody's involved" in personnel decisions "a chicken-bleep statement." Honestly stunned J Reese that out of touch. It's simply not what you say, ESPECIALLY AS YOUR HALL OF FAME COACH IS RIGHT FREAKIN THERE!!!! — Jay Glazer (@JayGlazer) January 5, 2016 |
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Eb Samuel of the New York Daily News said Reese was "less-than-stellar" in defending his work: He opened his press conference by saying he took "full responsibility for every player that's been on this roster," but quickly felt the need to mention that "everybody's involved." He then added that the Giants were "competitive." "We are 6-10 so you are what your record says you are," he insisted, "but I believe that we were competitive. The roster that we put out there, it wasn't a perfect roster. Nobody has a perfect roster. We lost too many close games. Had a chance to win a lot of games." Reese almost seemed to blame Coughlin, and he made excuses for several of his own failings, blaming the struggles of the defense on "the Jason Pierre-Paul Effect," and insisting that the club "tried to upgrade at linebacker," despite a lack of playmakers at the position. |
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Steve Politi of NJ Advance Media blasted the general manager for being "defiant and defensive" on Tuesday: It is hard to imagine that Reese, who has been GM of an NFL franchise in this parade-or-bust market now for almost decade, really thought he could pass off the idea that the 6-10 Giants were thisclose to competing with the NFC elite for a spot in the Super Bowl. But that was Reese on Tuesday. Yes, he gave an obligatory "I take responsibility for everything that happened," but he sure sounded like a man who thought bad breaks and bad luck â& #128;& #148; and maybe even bad coaching â& #128;& #148; were more to blame than bad personnel decisions. ... You are what your record says you are, a wise man named Bill Parcells once said. The Giants are a bad team and have been for a while now, and whether he wants to admit it or not, that means the GM has done a bad job. |
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Former Giants great Carl Banks also took Reese to task after the press conference: "Clearly there is a deficit in talent, particularly on the defensive side of the ball.... the end result was they had a very bad group of players of defense, offensively they struggled to find a No. 2 receiver all year. Your general manager, personnel folks, they've gotta be somewhat accountable. ... "The focus is still on personnel. The thing that really tells you when a coach should be fired and when he should not is if you give a coach good talent and the talent doesn't play for him. That's not the case ... his best players played good for him, his bad players overachieved, they just weren't good enough ... you just couldn't get blood from a rock." |
The Giants either wanted him to look awful or they royally screwed up putting that out there today, when they did.
TC chose to play Kuhn, Newhouse and Andre Williams.
No
It's also about time the NY and national media woke up and realized who the main culprit has been here all along.
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Do you think within the next week or so, that Reese could still be fired?
No
But the one year clock may now be ticking. And a new coach may not save him if there's another losing season.
And that differs from many who care more about FF than the Giants per se?
It's also about time the NY and national media woke up and realized who the main culprit has been here all along.
Yes, because the media is never knee-jerk and short-sighted. JFC.
This was Kuhn's third season on the team. Anyone who says he wasn't here because Coughlin wanted him here is lying through his teeth.
The only way I see Mara reversing himself and firing Reese (which he absolutely should do) is:
1) The criticism from the media and fans is so loud and harsh that he feels he has no other options (unlikely)
2) Top head coaching candidates either refuse to sign with the Giants or indicate they won't become the Giants head coach if Reese is still GM (again, unlikely).
I hope I'm wrong and open BBI during the next week and see a sticky with: Reese Fired! I'm not holding my breath unfortunately.
What Mara Might Be Thinking About Coughlin - ( New Window )
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On this site have to admit the franchise didn't look very good today as both Mara and Reese were contradicting themselves repeatedly.
It's also about time the NY and national media woke up and realized who the main culprit has been here all along.
Yes, because the media is never knee-jerk and short-sighted. JFC.
If my memory serves me well, I recall you're a "pro-Reese", guy, right?
Nah. No way. He probably has at least two years with the new coach.
The problem here is that we're emotionally attached to TC, I get that. An unbiased, reasonable thought on how we procure talent is just not going to happen here, people are revising history to the point that Coughlin has been Vince Lombardi in his prime the past 3 years. When Giants fans have posited whether Eli is more valuable to our success than TC, we've reached the tipping point of sanity.
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In comment 12742331 The_Boss said:
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On this site have to admit the franchise didn't look very good today as both Mara and Reese were contradicting themselves repeatedly.
It's also about time the NY and national media woke up and realized who the main culprit has been here all along.
Yes, because the media is never knee-jerk and short-sighted. JFC.
If my memory serves me well, I recall you're a "pro-Reese", guy, right?
I'm "Pro Giants". I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that Coughlin has been on top of his game the last 3 seasons, or look to pin the blame on one guy.
A giant great no longer on the team that played during Reese's reign told me in person after a few drinks last year that Reese was incredibly arrogant. He cited the tight end position, the linebacker position and the year that the offensive line was horrendous where the only upgrade in the offseason was Pugh. He thinks he knows more than everyone else and is always willing to prove it. One can only hope that the past few years had humbled him but given his comments today I fear this offseason will be no different for better or for worse.
Coughlin certainly had a say, but Reese is the GM. He has final say and it's his responsibility, as he himself said today. Coughlin deserves much more blame for some of the decisions he made over the past 16 Sundays.
Would be nice but doubtful
Reese is interviewing coaching candidates . Something tells me this was well thought out. They have a guy they want in there more than TC .
I think Reese stays put unless they give the new guy GM but they won't .or they plan to give GM to Chris Mara after they get a coach .
Excellent point Reb
"There is no try, only do or do not"
I actually thought about this in relation to spags. First Mara said that spags did the best he could with what he had. Then Reese turns around and says that you have to play the hand you are dealt and "manufacture" things. Cleary, spags didn't manufacture anything this year, yet he seems to get a pass from Mara. (Although who knows how much of what they say in these PCs is even what they actually believe.)
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On this site have to admit the franchise didn't look very good today as both Mara and Reese were contradicting themselves repeatedly.
I actually thought about this in relation to spags. First Mara said that spags did the best he could with what he had. Then Reese turns around and says that you have to play the hand you are dealt and "manufacture" things. Cleary, spags didn't manufacture anything this year, yet he seems to get a pass from Mara. (Although who knows how much of what they say in these PCs is even what they actually believe.)
Exactly Rick, we really don't know
Bruce, in answer to your question, IMHO, I think Reese would already be gone if they were intent on dumping him.
"There is no try, only do or do not"
Jerry
there is about 4 guys on Defense I would Keep, the rest are shit
DRC, Collins, Hankins, Prince at decent contract, Ayers ( Maybe)
JR will do a better job, or he'll be fired within a few seasons. What he says at the 1/5/2016 is pretty meaningless. Draft better players, sign better players, sign a good HC, and maybe see to it that guys stay healthy if at all within your power to influence. That shit matters.
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He wasn't the only guy picking lousy players. If the membership roster of Club Tommy is a good indication, they both did.
The problem here is that we're emotionally attached to TC, I get that. An unbiased, reasonable thought on how we procure talent is just not going to happen here, people are revising history to the point that Coughlin has been Vince Lombardi in his prime the past 3 years. When Giants fans have posited whether Eli is more valuable to our success than TC, we've reached the tipping point of sanity.
Yeah, at this point you're thinking TC would have 4 rings if only Ernie Accorsi hadn't left in '06 and stuck us with a Matt Millen-level GM in Reese.
But its not just "Media heads", its also ex-players who some I'm sure have a real good idea how things worked within the staff and the FO
This one got a good laugh out of me.
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know more about this than a high level front office executive? LMAO.
But its not just "Media heads", its also ex-players who some I'm sure have a real good idea how things worked within the staff and the FO
Players don't have much interaction with the Front Office. Isiah Thomas thought he had the solutions to fix the Knicks, tell me how that turned out. I'm not saying these guys know nothing about the sport, but the Front Office is a completely different ballgame.
Reese acted like a smug and delusional ass. He seemed to absolve himself, thinking the talent was good enough and the problems were all on Coughlin. I have said for months that I wasn't sure about Coughlin, but felt that Reese definitely needed to go.
Based on Mara and Reese's comments, it seems both are perfectly happy to make Coughlin the scapegoat. Both are arrogant and delusional. Coughlin was absolutely part of he problem. But, both of them are also big parts of the problem.
Agreed - I thought Reese looked like a jackass up there today, but I'm only pissed about the team's subpar talent.
Come on man. Grow up.
Im not following all comments. Have ex players called for JR to be fired? Particularly guys who dont have an emotional attachment to TC?
I wasnt for firing either. I think our chances are better with them than randos. And I dont like the idea of moving forward with a new HC when the GM is on the hot seat.
How did you think it was going to go for Reese from there?
You're a jackass, and that's a not so subtle dig at...nevermind.
We had DTs? Newhouse was acquired FOR RT specifically so had inside track, Hart wasa 7th, we had no other NFL level starting RT, such as Newhouse seemed he might be, and wasn't.
The best of CRAP played.
I'm "Pro Giants". I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that Coughlin has been on top of his game the last 3 seasons, or look to pin the blame on one guy.
I don't recall you attributing any responsibility to Reese. Your stance if I'm understanding it correctly is something along the lines of, Reese gave Coughlin enough to get the job done effectively, Reese did his job.
Sentimentality makes people stupid. Coughlin is a good man and an all time great Giant and great coach, but it was time for a change. His job performance was worsening...that is utterly beyond debate.
The same can not be said for Reese, who the last three years has done well in rebuilding the offensive line, drafting a once in a generation receiver, and adding some shrewd FAs.
Logic has gone completely out the window the last couple weeks with fans and media.
Sentimentality makes you dumb.
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I'm "Pro Giants". I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that Coughlin has been on top of his game the last 3 seasons, or look to pin the blame on one guy.
I don't recall you attributing any responsibility to Reese. Your stance if I'm understanding it correctly is something along the lines of, Reese gave Coughlin enough to get the job done effectively, Reese did his job.
I've said REPEATEDLY that Reese shares the blame on this. My stance is that it is simply time to move on for a variety of reasons.
Nothing Reese said or did was arrogant or smug. Defensive, yes, like Coughlin after a bad game. But arrogant or smug? Silly.
"we tried to upgrade the LBs"
And failed. That's why people think you stink.
"I take full responsibility."
No you don't. Tom did.
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Guy's got some nerve. Mara, too.
No, but I think Ross and various scouts could be after the draft. I also think Reese has been given a certain amount of time to fix it or he's out
Sentimentality makes people stupid. Coughlin is a good man and an all time great Giant and great coach, but it was time for a change. His job performance was worsening...that is utterly beyond debate.
The same can not be said for Reese, who the last three years has done well in rebuilding the offensive line, drafting a once in a generation receiver, and adding some shrewd FAs.
Logic has gone completely out the window the last couple weeks with fans and media.
Sentimentality makes you dumb.
Exactly my thoughts Go Terps, but now people will be accusing you of being anti-Coughlin. This board is full of whiny little babies.
People have the memories and attention spans of babies.
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In comment 12742418 David in LA said:
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know more about this than a high level front office executive? LMAO.
But its not just "Media heads", its also ex-players who some I'm sure have a real good idea how things worked within the staff and the FO
Players don't have much interaction with the Front Office. Isiah Thomas thought he had the solutions to fix the Knicks, tell me how that turned out. I'm not saying these guys know nothing about the sport, but the Front Office is a completely different ballgame.
Dave do you honestly thinlk people like Banks, Strahan, And all the other recent ex-players on out team who have come out about this, don't know how this talent is getting assembled? That is really naive if you think that . T
lol...Exactly, its not like he does not have a clue how things are working inside the team hdqtrs
But to in any way insinuate that Jerry Reese has done a good job managing this roster....no.
We had DTs? Newhouse was acquired FOR RT specifically so had inside track, Hart wasa 7th, we had no other NFL level starting RT, such as Newhouse seemed he might be, and wasn't.
The best of CRAP played.
Kuhn? we had a myriad of defensive linemen that would have been just as effective as Kuhn, if not more. I would've used Jenkins/Bromley combo teamed with Hankins.
Newhouse? I would have inserted Hart earlier, who played pretty well for a rookie, but inexplicably was benched again at the end in favor of Newhouse (even though Pugh got moved over).
LOL...he worked in the NBA? WTF does Thomas have one whit to do with the NY Giants?
People have the memories and attention spans of babies.
Your right, are any of them now defending him that did that?
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Had a delicate conversation with Coughlin about changing his ways, he needs to have the same conversation with Reese about how he presents himself to the public and the media. Today's press conference did little to dispel the notion that Reese is undeservedly arrogant and smug. The fact is all he did was reinforce that perception rightly or wrongly. You can complain all you want about the media but they play a crucial role in shaping or influencing the discourse on any public issue. Unfortunately, he has further alienated a good portion of the fan base and what should have been a fairly ordinary press conference has now become a debacle.
Nothing Reese said or did was arrogant or smug. Defensive, yes, like Coughlin after a bad game. But arrogant or smug? Silly.
No it's not silly. When you step to the podium and claim to accept responsibility for the failures but then spend most of your time making excuses your claims ring hollow and lack credibility. They come across as arrogant and smug because you question his sincerity. Reese did not acquit himself well today. Today was not about excuses. It was about acknowledging failures and accepting responsibility. All he had to do today was accept responsibility, explain what went wrong and how to fix it, and allow the press to beat up on him for 45 minutes and everyone would be satisfied having extracted their pound of flesh. The problem is now he has alienated a good portion of the fan base and created a tempest that they will now have to deal with
I assume it does. You're a hot HC candidate. Everyone wants you. Do you want to sign up for a team that might fire its GM in a year or two and stick you with a new GM who maybe wants his own guy, or is philosophically inconsistent with you (e.g. you want big defenders and the GM wants speedy small guys, big play vs WCO etc)?
2nd, he said its a group process, we've seen TC at the combine. We heard Ross on Finding Giants. They are collaborative which is good. Reese makes the final call and is responsible, but it is a collective of information.
The games were close and a few plays could have changed the season, we all know that's true. TC and I love him, he offed a few times this year. Its ok to say that, and that cost him big time.
Certainly. There's a definite chance Reese could be gone next season. He's the target of everyone now that TC is gone, and rightfully so.
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In comment 12742411 Reb8thVA said:
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Had a delicate conversation with Coughlin about changing his ways, he needs to have the same conversation with Reese about how he presents himself to the public and the media. Today's press conference did little to dispel the notion that Reese is undeservedly arrogant and smug. The fact is all he did was reinforce that perception rightly or wrongly. You can complain all you want about the media but they play a crucial role in shaping or influencing the discourse on any public issue. Unfortunately, he has further alienated a good portion of the fan base and what should have been a fairly ordinary press conference has now become a debacle.
Nothing Reese said or did was arrogant or smug. Defensive, yes, like Coughlin after a bad game. But arrogant or smug? Silly.
No it's not silly. When you step to the podium and claim to accept responsibility for the failures but then spend most of your time making excuses your claims ring hollow and lack credibility. They come across as arrogant and smug because you question his sincerity. Reese did not acquit himself well today. Today was not about excuses. It was about acknowledging failures and accepting responsibility. All he had to do today was accept responsibility, explain what went wrong and how to fix it, and allow the press to beat up on him for 45 minutes and everyone would be satisfied having extracted their pound of flesh. The problem is now he has alienated a good portion of the fan base and created a tempest that they will now have to deal with
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In comment 12742411 Reb8thVA said:
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Had a delicate conversation with Coughlin about changing his ways, he needs to have the same conversation with Reese about how he presents himself to the public and the media. Today's press conference did little to dispel the notion that Reese is undeservedly arrogant and smug. The fact is all he did was reinforce that perception rightly or wrongly. You can complain all you want about the media but they play a crucial role in shaping or influencing the discourse on any public issue. Unfortunately, he has further alienated a good portion of the fan base and what should have been a fairly ordinary press conference has now become a debacle.
Nothing Reese said or did was arrogant or smug. Defensive, yes, like Coughlin after a bad game. But arrogant or smug? Silly.
No it's not silly. When you step to the podium and claim to accept responsibility for the failures but then spend most of your time making excuses your claims ring hollow and lack credibility. They come across as arrogant and smug because you question his sincerity. Reese did not acquit himself well today. Today was not about excuses. It was about acknowledging failures and accepting responsibility. All he had to do today was accept responsibility, explain what went wrong and how to fix it, and allow the press to beat up on him for 45 minutes and everyone would be satisfied having extracted their pound of flesh. The problem is now he has alienated a good portion of the fan base and created a tempest that they will now have to deal with
come on. draft another OBJ and good depth and we love him. Are you really alienated by words, rather than tangible success? Today was some ritual where he gets pounded for 45 minutes to take it like a man and soothe the fans/press?
Im sorry, that strikes me as nonsense.
People have the memories and attention spans of babies.
just wait until the next coach makes a mistake or after a Giants loss. All we'll hear about is how Coughlin would have done a better job.
Holy leap of logic batman...Who knows, he may very well know more then Thomas does about running BBall team,. The point being is that your attempting to apply one instance (Thomas) as some holy grail example of why no one else that does not hold a specific title in the front office of the NY Giants, does not know anything about players, or what it takes to play in the NFL.
Nothing else comes into play here, if Thomas could not do it in the NBA (which by the way is a completely different skill set for the most part) then without a doubt no one could do it in the NFL.
TC talks about how he takes the bullet when the team loses and gives them the credit when they win.
Reese says he owns it and then goes on to blame every tom dick and harry for the problems.
I hope he gets run out of NY
He is a true POS
Then he has the balls to say in so many words don't let his size fool you.
This is a GM talking---WTF
Chris Mara's role is all title. He's the ownership representative to player evaluation and selection. And with his scouting background he has some input to give. But he's not pulling the strings.
TC talks about how he takes the bullet when the team loses and gives them the credit when they win.
Reese says he owns it and then goes on to blame every tom dick and harry for the problems.
I hope he gets run out of NY
He is a true POS
Then he has the balls to say in so many words don't let his size fool you.
This is a GM talking---WTF
Reese is a POS now. Interesting.
TC talks about how he takes the bullet when the team loses and gives them the credit when they win.
Reese says he owns it and then goes on to blame every tom dick and harry for the problems.
I hope he gets run out of NY
He is a true POS
Then he has the balls to say in so many words don't let his size fool you.
This is a GM talking---WTF
I suggest you back away from the key board and get a grip
I agree. He deals with the media a few times a year. I couldn't care less how effective he is at public speaking.
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so what makes you think Carl Banks knows how to remedy our talent situation, when we are losing premium talent to injuries?
Holy leap of logic batman...Who knows, he may very well know more then Thomas does about running BBall team,. The point being is that your attempting to apply one instance (Thomas) as some holy grail example of why no one else that does not hold a specific title in the front office of the NY Giants, does not know anything about players, or what it takes to play in the NFL.
Nothing else comes into play here, if Thomas could not do it in the NBA (which by the way is a completely different skill set for the most part) then without a doubt no one could do it in the NFL.
Banks has never run a team at any level. Zeke was a part owner and GM of the Raptors, owned the CBA, coached the Pacers, ran the Knicks, head coach of FIU, and is overseeing the Liberty. Strikes me as unlikely that Banks knows more about running an NFL team than Zeke knows about running an basketball team.
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He talked about his resume however he is so far over his head that it is just a matter of time before he implodes.
TC talks about how he takes the bullet when the team loses and gives them the credit when they win.
Reese says he owns it and then goes on to blame every tom dick and harry for the problems.
I hope he gets run out of NY
He is a true POS
Then he has the balls to say in so many words don't let his size fool you.
This is a GM talking---WTF
Reese is a POS now. Interesting.
Yeah this one is off the wall. There is blame to go around to everyone and while I also felt his presser was weak and self serving it does not equate to him being a bad person. As a matter of fact I am willing to bet that being a part of this org he is anything but a bad person
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so what makes you think Carl Banks knows how to remedy our talent situation, when we are losing premium talent to injuries?
Holy leap of logic batman...Who knows, he may very well know more then Thomas does about running BBall team,. The point being is that your attempting to apply one instance (Thomas) as some holy grail example of why no one else that does not hold a specific title in the front office of the NY Giants, does not know anything about players, or what it takes to play in the NFL.
Nothing else comes into play here, if Thomas could not do it in the NBA (which by the way is a completely different skill set for the most part) then without a doubt no one could do it in the NFL.
It's just one example. Generally speaking, being a former athlete does not make you more plugged in as to how talent is procured. Banks has an idea as to what the issue is, but he doesn't know more than the guys actually working on the roster on a day to day basis.
Why don't you add something worthwhile to this discussion? Oh right, you're an emotional mess that has devolved into taking shots at posters that don't agree with you here. Reese is not off the hook, I've repeated that, but that seems to be what people think my position is, that I'm "pro Reese".
It's only 60% done at this point, it hasn't sustained a running game for any consisten period of time, and it was on his watch that the OL went to shit in the first place.
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In comment 12742573 David in LA said:
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so what makes you think Carl Banks knows how to remedy our talent situation, when we are losing premium talent to injuries?
Holy leap of logic batman...Who knows, he may very well know more then Thomas does about running BBall team,. The point being is that your attempting to apply one instance (Thomas) as some holy grail example of why no one else that does not hold a specific title in the front office of the NY Giants, does not know anything about players, or what it takes to play in the NFL.
Nothing else comes into play here, if Thomas could not do it in the NBA (which by the way is a completely different skill set for the most part) then without a doubt no one could do it in the NFL.
Banks has never run a team at any level. Zeke was a part owner and GM of the Raptors, owned the CBA, coached the Pacers, ran the Knicks, head coach of FIU, and is overseeing the Liberty. Strikes me as unlikely that Banks knows more about running an NFL team than Zeke knows about running an basketball team.
In other words its a ridiculous analogy
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We should listen to you and ignore Banks.
Why don't you add something worthwhile to this discussion? Oh right, you're an emotional mess that has devolved into taking shots at posters that don't agree with you here. Reese is not off the hook, I've repeated that, but that seems to be what people think my position is, that I'm "pro Reese".
I don't know or care what your position is.
It's only 60% done at this point, it hasn't sustained a running game for any consisten period of time, and it was on his watch that the OL went to shit in the first place.
If Beatty doesn't rip his pectoral muscle, then it's 80%. The running attack also suffered because of RB by committee.
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In comment 12742573 David in LA said:
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so what makes you think Carl Banks knows how to remedy our talent situation, when we are losing premium talent to injuries?
Holy leap of logic batman...Who knows, he may very well know more then Thomas does about running BBall team,. The point being is that your attempting to apply one instance (Thomas) as some holy grail example of why no one else that does not hold a specific title in the front office of the NY Giants, does not know anything about players, or what it takes to play in the NFL.
Nothing else comes into play here, if Thomas could not do it in the NBA (which by the way is a completely different skill set for the most part) then without a doubt no one could do it in the NFL.
It's just one example. Generally speaking, being a former athlete does not make you more plugged in as to how talent is procured. Banks has an idea as to what the issue is, but he doesn't know more than the guys actually working on the roster on a day to day basis.
Ok so far the vast multitude who have pointed out the failings of Reese either don't have the experience to do so, don't know for sure, should not be talking, are too far removed, or are not good enough to do it in the NBA so somehow can't do it in the NFL.
How about Charlie Casserly then?
""“Clearly what’s happened is they’ve had some bad drafts a couple of years ago, they’ve drafted a little better the last two years,’’ Casserly said. “I think they got to take a good, hard look at what they’re doing in scouting, why they have struggled at certain times and figure out: Is there something they need to evaluate there and change there? I know I had to go through that myself and change things internally. We didn’t fire anybody, we changed some things internally in philosophy on how we were doing it and it was fine, we got better.’’""
By the way can you name some experts (regardless of how close they are to the team, or the sport they play in, or if they have experience, who have felt this is on Coghlin and Reese has done a good job?
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In comment 12742608 montanagiant said:
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In comment 12742573 David in LA said:
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so what makes you think Carl Banks knows how to remedy our talent situation, when we are losing premium talent to injuries?
Holy leap of logic batman...Who knows, he may very well know more then Thomas does about running BBall team,. The point being is that your attempting to apply one instance (Thomas) as some holy grail example of why no one else that does not hold a specific title in the front office of the NY Giants, does not know anything about players, or what it takes to play in the NFL.
Nothing else comes into play here, if Thomas could not do it in the NBA (which by the way is a completely different skill set for the most part) then without a doubt no one could do it in the NFL.
Banks has never run a team at any level. Zeke was a part owner and GM of the Raptors, owned the CBA, coached the Pacers, ran the Knicks, head coach of FIU, and is overseeing the Liberty. Strikes me as unlikely that Banks knows more about running an NFL team than Zeke knows about running an basketball team.
Ok Zeke runs a BBall program better then we can surmise that Banks would run an NFL team. We most likely will never know that definitively, but the point still remains how one is in any way like the other outside of both being good ex-players in two completely different sports.
In other words its a ridiculous analogy
Ok, Matt Millen. Just because the analogy is across different sports doesn't mean it's applicable. Carl Banks has access to the team, but not to high level execs in the FO.
Reserve/Designated-for-Return List:
58 Owamagbe Odighizuwa DE 6-3 270 24 2015/3 2019
Reserve/Injured List:
18 Marcus Harris WR 6-1 187 27 2013/UFA FA
27 Mykkele Thompson S 6-0 193 23 2015/5 2019
36 Justin Currie S 6-2 214 23 2015/UDFA 2017
24 Bennett Jackson S 6-0 192 25 2014/6 FA
75 Brandon Mosley OL 6-5 318 28 2012/4 FA
69 Brett Jones OC 6-2 318 25 2015/UFA 2018
29 Nat Berhe S 6-0 194 25 2014/5 2018
85 Daniel Fells TE 6-4 260 33 2014/UFA FA
52 Jon Beason LB 6-0 232 31 2013/Trade 2017
95 Johnathan Hankins DT 6-2 320 24 2013/2 2017
80 Victor Cruz WR 6-0 204 30 2010/UDFA 2019
74 Geoff Schwartz OG 6-6 340 30 2014/UFA 2018
84 Larry Donnell TE 6-6 265 28 2012/UFA FA
51 Zak DeOssie LS 6-4 249 32 2007/4 FA
49 Nikita Whitlock FB 5-10 250 25 2014/UFA 2017
78 Markus Kuhn DT 6-4 303 30 2012/7 FA
46 James Morris LB 6-2 245 25 2015/UFA 2017
59 Devon Kennard LB 6-3 251 25 2014/5 2018
55 J.T. Thomas LB 6-1 236 28 2015/UFA 2018
57 Danny Aiken LS 6-4 255 28 2015/UFA FA
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In comment 12742599 AP in Halfmoon said:
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We should listen to you and ignore Banks.
Why don't you add something worthwhile to this discussion? Oh right, you're an emotional mess that has devolved into taking shots at posters that don't agree with you here. Reese is not off the hook, I've repeated that, but that seems to be what people think my position is, that I'm "pro Reese".
I don't know or care what your position is.
Cool. Bringing nothing to the table, per usual. I'm sorry you're an emotional mess that can't discuss topics like an adult.
David's broader point is pretty valid though. Lots of ex-players are big idiots. Banks isnt an idiot; far from it. Doesnt mean he knows how to run a team.
But more to the point, Banks didnt slam JR. From the OP
"The focus is still on personnel. The thing that really tells you when a coach should be fired and when he should not is if you give a coach good talent and the talent doesn't play for him. That's not the case ... his best players played good for him, his bad players overachieved, they just weren't good enough ... you just couldn't get blood from a rock."
I dont slam JR and all that is fair. JR has to be somewhat accountable. He will lose his job soon if the ship isnt righted, and in the interim will probably lose some underlings.
On defense it really was blood from a rock. SOme of that was the GM, more IMO was injuries.
Banks has been very critical of the Giants. I'm not sure what your point is.
I wish the fans were way more in the camp that is sick and tired of the media. They completely dominate these processes and try to create problems where there aren't any. This is an organization where the people are all fond and respectful of each other and the media desperately wants to find areas they can forcefeed the fans with drama and bullshit. TC was pissed he lost his job, he doesn't hate Mara. He doesn't hate Reese. THere is no reason why anyone would hate each other.
The media spent day after day after day craving a firing and begging the Giants to end TC's career here. Then they do so and the media is just vicious and hyperbolic. THey call for one thing and then act like the Giants are an evil, dysfunctional horror show with a GM who has no accountability and a coach who gets blamed when he shouldn't and this and that. It's ALL BS. ALL BS. Giants fans, just stick with your team. The media tries to cause problems and make us think things that are false. They come up with theories and then hear answers directly from the horses' mouths. Then still act like they didn't hear a thing. WHen you watch these pressers and hear these interviews, just be aware of how much Reese, Mara etc know how the media tries to make their franchise look awful when everyone who has ever gone near it calls it a model franchise and one to envy.
Lets go Giants.
You also have EricJ's comment that Reese hasn't mastered the English language. The implied message is one that isn't so wholesome.
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But to give him credit for having rebuilt the OL is a little bit generous.
It's only 60% done at this point, it hasn't sustained a running game for any consisten period of time, and it was on his watch that the OL went to shit in the first place.
If Beatty doesn't rip his pectoral muscle, then it's 80%. The running attack also suffered because of RB by committee.
Your correct the Beatty injury hurt us badly, but do you feel the one big FA O-lineman we signed (Scwartz) was a good one given that possability? Its not just the draft, its the other things we need to do to have solid depth on this team. While I love the Harris signing because he is a tough SOB who gives his all and we desperately needed ST help, his signing is considered one where we had to overpay for him because we had no one to help. I'm glad we got him but he came at a premium due to the fact we had to do something to upgrade the ST's.
For years that has been a bone of contention, that ST Coach Quinn sucks as a coach, get rid of the bum, etc...etc..Now he finally gets some decent talent and we have the one shining spot with regards to this team Special Teams. When the talent is given this staff did well
I didn't think Reese was arrogant but your point is a stretch. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
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is arrogant sounds eerily similar to flat out saying he's uppity.
You also have EricJ's comment that Reese hasn't mastered the English language. The implied message is one that isn't so wholesome.
Don't forget Marty saying he's a POS. Can we pull up that 2007 thread where Reese was a Rooney rule interview?
Reese acted like a smug and delusional ass. He seemed to absolve himself, thinking the talent was good enough and the problems were all on Coughlin. I have said for months that I wasn't sure about Coughlin, but felt that Reese definitely needed to go.
Based on Mara and Reese's comments, it seems both are perfectly happy to make Coughlin the scapegoat. Both are arrogant and delusional. Coughlin was absolutely part of he problem. But, both of them are also big parts of the problem.
Good post
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is arrogant sounds eerily similar to flat out saying he's uppity.
I didn't think Reese was arrogant but your point is a stretch. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
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In comment 12742644 Deej said:
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In comment 12742608 montanagiant said:
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In comment 12742573 David in LA said:
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so what makes you think Carl Banks knows how to remedy our talent situation, when we are losing premium talent to injuries?
Holy leap of logic batman...Who knows, he may very well know more then Thomas does about running BBall team,. The point being is that your attempting to apply one instance (Thomas) as some holy grail example of why no one else that does not hold a specific title in the front office of the NY Giants, does not know anything about players, or what it takes to play in the NFL.
Nothing else comes into play here, if Thomas could not do it in the NBA (which by the way is a completely different skill set for the most part) then without a doubt no one could do it in the NFL.
Banks has never run a team at any level. Zeke was a part owner and GM of the Raptors, owned the CBA, coached the Pacers, ran the Knicks, head coach of FIU, and is overseeing the Liberty. Strikes me as unlikely that Banks knows more about running an NFL team than Zeke knows about running an basketball team.
Ok Zeke runs a BBall program better then we can surmise that Banks would run an NFL team. We most likely will never know that definitively, but the point still remains how one is in any way like the other outside of both being good ex-players in two completely different sports.
In other words its a ridiculous analogy
Ok, Matt Millen. Just because the analogy is across different sports doesn't mean it's applicable. Carl Banks has access to the team, but not to high level execs in the FO.
Of course he does, he is part of the team. He has to so he can do his job properly. Why do you think he gets calls to go on other shows to give his take on the team? Is he in meetings such as deciding what to do with Coach Coughlin? No i will grant you that, but he has the pulse of the team from the FO on down for daily transactions and Player signings, draft decisions and other aspects
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In comment 12742696 2ndroundKO said:
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is arrogant sounds eerily similar to flat out saying he's uppity.
I didn't think Reese was arrogant but your point is a stretch. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
Nah, it's been there.
And then there is the "JR dresses disrespectfully" thread.
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In comment 12742696 2ndroundKO said:
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is arrogant sounds eerily similar to flat out saying he's uppity.
I didn't think Reese was arrogant but your point is a stretch. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
Nah, it's been there.
Well, now that you mention it the photo of Reese on the petition isn't exactly flattering.
He may want a better situation as far as ability goes. A new HC will be totally dependent on the personnel guys
happy to hear that some of us are not happy with the idea of finding ways to bash the team we love. It's really annoying to see other fans seem to want to bash the Giants. It must be difficult enough to do their business and deal with their coach of so many years leaving, then add the interviews and the questions and the theories that they must know are total nonsense. It's the NYC media and it's tiring to watch them work. Then if you notice, the mere questioning of the media brings an onslaught of "how dare you blame the media, all we do is report" statements. I think the fans here are savvy enough to know that they are blatantly lying to "Scoop" stories and seem like they know things. Plus we know they enjoy negative drama because it feeds every aspect of their job. Fans should never ever believe media over the team. The teams actually like their fans. The media just wants you to think they know what they don't
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In comment 12742728 AP in Halfmoon said:
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In comment 12742696 2ndroundKO said:
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is arrogant sounds eerily similar to flat out saying he's uppity.
I didn't think Reese was arrogant but your point is a stretch. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
Nah, it's been there.
And then there is the "JR dresses disrespectfully" thread.
\Yeah trying to paint Reese in a bad light outside of football decisions is not only wrong, its done to justify a strong dislike someone may have of him other then football stuff. Reese is a decent man who is trying his best to make the Giants a better team, that is an undeniable fact. How he dressed or if he stuttered does not apply to the issue. Some of the things he said and how they were said may come into play, but slamming the guy on a whole litany of things outside of his football acumen is wrong.
T
Chris Mara's role is all title. He's the ownership representative to player evaluation and selection. And with his scouting background he has some input to give. But he's not pulling the strings.
That would be nice to believe. But unless you're intimately involved in the Giants' FO you don't know that.
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hiring of the coach??? I mean...the incoming coach may want a better situation as far as stability goes...
He may want a better situation as far as ability goes. A new HC will be totally dependent on the personnel guys
I think it definitely would cause some concern but the Giants HC job is such a plum it would more then be enough to overlook it. Hell it could be that they did it this way today with that poorly thought out Presser because they already know who it is
Who the fuck was gonna play LT?
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In comment 12742728 AP in Halfmoon said:
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In comment 12742696 2ndroundKO said:
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is arrogant sounds eerily similar to flat out saying he's uppity.
I didn't think Reese was arrogant but your point is a stretch. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
Nah, it's been there.
And then there is the "JR dresses disrespectfully" thread.
Lol that was actually said a few times. But the arrogant one, man that takes the cake. I had to watch the presser again because I heard that so many times. I understand that most people don't recognize where they get these silly notions from. It's why I referenced "uppity." Then you get the hands up, "whoa, wait a minute" reaction. "We didn't say uppity, we said arrogant, smug, incompetent, stupid, disrespectful barely literate POS who can't dress." I remember a few threads back in 2007 when Reese was being interviewed. I was completely flabbergasted by the number of people who flat out he was being interviewed to meet a quota. Since then, nothing surprises me.
It's only 60% done at this point, it hasn't sustained a running game for any consisten period of time, and it was on his watch that the OL went to shit in the first place.
60% is generous. Until I see a rating on Pugh, I don't know that anyone besides Richburg is top 1/2 at his position at this point.
They are the fans "representative"? No. Not me. They have never once represented me or what I'm thinking and they represent a very specific type of thinking. There are plenty of fans out there who are not foaming at the mouth for firings and cutting players and trading players. Plenty of fans who just want their team to win and if they don't, improve so they can win. That's it. None of the inside battles and bullcrap. THat stuff is a distraction away from the only thing that matters. When a team is winning you literally hear NONE of this. Because the media can't fake the negative garbage. How can there be so much fighting and drama and negativity when a team wins. Just win and it all goes away. Then the media acts like they were hoping for it all along. THe joy the team brings and how they can connect the fans to the team.
I've just grown to see enough of it that it legitimately bothers me. It makes winning in NYC even harder and that sucks for the fans.
You let Tom go out in his own presser, and schedule the other ones for later on that day, And where the hell was Tisch during this?
He's not the owner - he's the owner's brother.
Here's John's take on Chris missing part of the draft to be at the Kentucky Derby: “I encouraged him to go to the race. He can be here for our first five picks and then be available by phone. We already have his reports anyway."
Does that sound like he's considered a vital decision maker being groomed for GM?
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I count not cutting Beatty in either of the previous two offseasons to be among Resse's mistakes
Who the fuck was gonna play LT?
I would wager that Coughlin would have been irate if Reese just released Beatty.
Pat Hanlon gets about 1/3 the access Banks does. He is the last to know and most likely because they need to clean up something he said or did
So, Reese is here to stay. He needs to turn this shit/ship around and really that is all I care about at this point.
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I count not cutting Beatty in either of the previous two offseasons to be among Resse's mistakes
I would be surprised if Beatty is not the starting LT next season with Flowers at RT.
Just so the people who jump on one side or the other know; I think Coughlin can directly take some blame for losses this season. Coughlin is a HOF coach, and Reese, who is about as far from the hall as I am, showed him (most likely unintentional) disrespect trying to save his own face. The media is not crazy, fans who did not like Reese's comments are not crazy either. Reese started out taking the high road and then hedged his bets.
Boom.
Interesting that you would bring race into this. Has nothing to do with it. Typical for you to go there. He could barely articulate his thoughts...as a GM. That was my point. Keep trying to create smoke where there is no fire. You are doing a wonderful job....as usual.
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I'm not surprised at all a comment like that is coming from you. Borders on calling black people 'well spoken' as a complement. The implication you make is fucking awful.
Interesting that you would bring race into this. Has nothing to do with it. Typical for you to go there. He could barely articulate his thoughts...as a GM. That was my point. Keep trying to create smoke where there is no fire. You are doing a wonderful job....as usual.
Don't make me laugh.
Boom.
Likely Kenyan too.
Because he is there to push the "good for the team" line. He is not there to discuss the good and the bad like a good analyst covering the team is tasked with.
Do you think Pat would talk about who he believes is to blame, or where he sees the issues at? His job is to clean up anything possibly bad (which he did with regards to Coach not shaking Mara's hand) and tweet happy thoughts about the Giants
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I'm not surprised at all a comment like that is coming from you. Borders on calling black people 'well spoken' as a complement. The implication you make is fucking awful.
Interesting that you would bring race into this. Has nothing to do with it. Typical for you to go there. He could barely articulate his thoughts...as a GM. That was my point. Keep trying to create smoke where there is no fire. You are doing a wonderful job....as usual.
I didn't bring up race, I just pointed out your micro aggression. You chose to roll with a pretty common one. Some people don't speak well in public, but you equate that to intelligence, and continue to do so.
The media usually favors those they have more access to, Reese works behind the scenes, and rarely speaks to the media. I'm sure you bitch about the same analysts when they don't give our team respect, it's just convenient for you to side with them in this instance, because you're emotionally attached to the coach and need to scapegoat someone.
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I think he's pretty plugged in. Like I think all media has to deal with him,.
Because he is there to push the "good for the team" line. He is not there to discuss the good and the bad like a good analyst covering the team is tasked with.
Do you think Pat would talk about who he believes is to blame, or where he sees the issues at? His job is to clean up anything possibly bad (which he did with regards to Coach not shaking Mara's hand) and tweet happy thoughts about the Giants
Nah but that's not at all what his job is....maybe I'm just not sure what you're talkin about.
The media reaction has been just asinine. These idiots killed TC for 4 straight months and now are acting like a crime was committed.
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is arrogant sounds eerily similar to flat out saying he's uppity.
I didn't think Reese was arrogant but your point is a stretch. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
You say this if Landon Collins and DRC catch interceptions and Odell Beckham pleases Dean Blandino by holding the ball for .7 more seconds?
This team with a 2 man offense and an amazingly bad defense could have literally won a few more and the opinion that the team is as bad as you say wouldn't even be possible. How can they be THAT awful and yet that close">
I wish the fans were way more in the camp that is sick and tired of the media. They completely dominate these processes and try to create problems where there aren't any. This is an organization where the people are all fond and respectful of each other and the media desperately wants to find areas they can forcefeed the fans with drama and bullshit. TC was pissed he lost his job, he doesn't hate Mara. He doesn't hate Reese. THere is no reason why anyone would hate each other.
The media spent day after day after day craving a firing and begging the Giants to end TC's career here. Then they do so and the media is just vicious and hyperbolic. THey call for one thing and then act like the Giants are an evil, dysfunctional horror show with a GM who has no accountability and a coach who gets blamed when he shouldn't and this and that. It's ALL BS. ALL BS. Giants fans, just stick with your team. The media tries to cause problems and make us think things that are false. They come up with theories and then hear answers directly from the horses' mouths. Then still act like they didn't hear a thing. WHen you watch these pressers and hear these interviews, just be aware of how much Reese, Mara etc know how the media tries to make their franchise look awful when everyone who has ever gone near it calls it a model franchise and one to envy.
Lets go Giants.
Brilliant post and one every Giants fan should be forced to read two or three times just to make sure it sinks in. It's 100% truth.
I despise the media on days like today. They are nothing short of manipulative, agenda driven parasites. Not all of them but far too many.
What's the standard of professionalism for someone previously tweeting about Urlacher's hair?
Brilliant post and one every Giants fan should be forced to read two or three times just to make sure it sinks in. It's 100% truth.
I despise the media on days like today. They are nothing short of manipulative, agenda driven parasites. Not all of them but far too many.
thanks and again, good to know others out there see this crap. It's damaging to the teams we like. There is no way it doesn't make it harder to win more often. Win it all espeially
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analyst Anderson in the NFL agrees. there is no contrary argument worth a shit when you have terrible talent it is the talent scouting and talent Eva.uators who need to be replaced. Glazier is exactly right
You say this if Landon Collins and DRC catch interceptions and Odell Beckham pleases Dean Blandino by holding the ball for .7 more seconds?
This team with a 2 man offense and an amazingly bad defense could have literally won a few more and the opinion that the team is as bad as you say wouldn't even be possible. How can they be THAT awful and yet that close">
That argument gives more credit to TC then it does Reese or at worst absolves them both.
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In comment 12742816 SethFromAstoria said:
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I think he's pretty plugged in. Like I think all media has to deal with him,.
Because he is there to push the "good for the team" line. He is not there to discuss the good and the bad like a good analyst covering the team is tasked with.
Do you think Pat would talk about who he believes is to blame, or where he sees the issues at? His job is to clean up anything possibly bad (which he did with regards to Coach not shaking Mara's hand) and tweet happy thoughts about the Giants
Nah but that's not at all what his job is....maybe I'm just not sure what you're talkin about.
What do you think his job is as PR guy for the Giants
Sentimentality makes people stupid. Coughlin is a good man and an all time great Giant and great coach, but it was time for a change. His job performance was worsening...that is utterly beyond debate.
The same can not be said for Reese, who the last three years has done well in rebuilding the offensive line, drafting a once in a generation receiver, and adding some shrewd FAs.
Logic has gone completely out the window the last couple weeks with fans and media.
Sentimentality makes you dumb.
That's some shitty ass analysis. Reese assembled these rosters that couldn't even be saved by drafting a generational WR. There's a dearth of talent on the Giants and has been for years. It's Reese's fault.
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agreed with every single word.
happy to hear that some of us are not happy with the idea of finding ways to bash the team we love. It's really annoying to see other fans seem to want to bash the Giants. It must be difficult enough to do their business and deal with their coach of so many years leaving, then add the interviews and the questions and the theories that they must know are total nonsense. It's the NYC media and it's tiring to watch them work. Then if you notice, the mere questioning of the media brings an onslaught of "how dare you blame the media, all we do is report" statements. I think the fans here are savvy enough to know that they are blatantly lying to "Scoop" stories and seem like they know things. Plus we know they enjoy negative drama because it feeds every aspect of their job. Fans should never ever believe media over the team. The teams actually like their fans. The media just wants you to think they know what they don't
You act like the Giants are a child that should be loved regardless of what they do. They're not, they're a billion dollar business. You supporting them through fuck ups isn't a badge of honor - get off your high horse.
You're insufferable David.
I would say the exact same thing about toothless, illiterate, backcountry, incestuous rednecks too.
Go fuck yourself. Twice. Ignorance is ignorance. Whether it be in any of the MANY ghetto ass neighborgoods in the country or up in the hills. But by all means, keep labeling white people as bigoted you racist asshole.
Now, nobody in the organization wants to say that out of respect/courtesy, so they're all sharing blame, as they rightfully should.
But now, when they say it's not all his fault, everybody is asking why does he take the fall then? And that's why the confusion. It's getting hard to cover up the lies. The lies about them not really blaming him, which I think internally they do, at least put most of the blame on him.
But Mara, I think, was wise enough to harp of talent issues, which I believe is a message to JR as well. Last year after the season he gave TC a veiled altimatum, and this year he might be giving it to Reese in a lighter tone.
What do you think he does?
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In comment 12742927 SomeFan said:
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analyst Anderson in the NFL agrees. there is no contrary argument worth a shit when you have terrible talent it is the talent scouting and talent Eva.uators who need to be replaced. Glazier is exactly right
You say this if Landon Collins and DRC catch interceptions and Odell Beckham pleases Dean Blandino by holding the ball for .7 more seconds?
This team with a 2 man offense and an amazingly bad defense could have literally won a few more and the opinion that the team is as bad as you say wouldn't even be possible. How can they be THAT awful and yet that close">
That argument gives more credit to TC then it does Reese or at worst absolves them both.
I never have looked at this season's team and thought the weakness was the coach. I have thought the talent was less than desirable and certain players and positions are horrible to watch every week. Namely the main problem, which also is why I don't blame the coach as much as people seem to: the defense. I don't think this team lost the ways they did because of all the various villains this board assigns blame to. I think they lost because they had a defense that repeated what they did in week one over and over again. They allowed even mediocre offenses to end the first half and more importantly end the game with drives that were direct causes of losses.
For instance week one people harp on time management and Eli's mistake. Thing is they still had the damn lead in that game and it took a 70+ yard drive in under 1:30 to lose. And the defense did what they do best: allowed the Cowboys to walk down the field and win the game after the offense (although they didn't score and end it) was on the field for 13 plays killing the clock. Just because it's POSSIBLE for the Cowboys to win because the Giants didn't put the game away doesn't mean it is an automatic that they allow a TD to lose the game in under 1:30. Of course if the Giants score points there it's one of those drives that you look back on and talk about how great it was that the offense killed the game with a 4 minute, 13 play drive. Instead they don't score as we know, but the defense steps on the field needing one stop, and instead allows 4 consecutive 1st down plays and then the game losing TD.
They only repeated that same thing 4 more times. Was it 5? I think 4. You'd think this was the worst possible loss in the first game of the year, but the Giants manage to repeat that pathetic crap over and over. And that's why we fired the coach, and missed a division title, and the playoffs of course. So yeah I definitely don't directly blame those types of losses on the coach or GM. The D had a special kind of stink to it. A loser mentality. A shit the bed when the game was on the line attribute. Not even able to stop plays when they knew what type of play was coming, and not able to man up and physically stop teams from beating them. Seriously awful.
You disagree?
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I'm not surprised at all a comment like that is coming from you. Borders on calling black people 'well spoken' as a complement. The implication you make is fucking awful.
You're insufferable David.
I would say the exact same thing about toothless, illiterate, backcountry, incestuous rednecks too.
Go fuck yourself. Twice. Ignorance is ignorance. Whether it be in any of the MANY ghetto ass neighborgoods in the country or up in the hills. But by all means, keep labeling white people as bigoted you racist asshole.
I called out a micro aggression, it doesn't necessarily have to do with race, but the talking down to of others based on a variety of reasons. Where did I say white people are bigoted? I'm calling out specific individuals. I'm not surprised at all that goes over your head. You've proven across several threads that you're a dumbass.
You act like the Giants are a child that should be loved regardless of what they do. They're not, they're a billion dollar business. You supporting them through fuck ups isn't a badge of honor - get off your high horse.
I never even was a member of the vast and huge group of posters who mocks the living hell out of you on BBI no matter what you post because I never got to experience a gem like this. Now I'll get to sit high on my horse and join the party.
I don't entirely understand what the hell this means in the context of what I am saying. Maybe you're a media member? Not sure. Either way my point in this case is that I'll never sit there and join the media in their totally contrived bullshit agenda because it's just that: contrived bullshit. All this nonsense with TC and Reese is made up and intentional for the purpose of stories they need to create.
If you don't get that then you are way way way below my f(#(@)( highhorse. I don't look at this billion dollar company and think the people involved are fair game and deserve to be publicly derided and embarrassed because they owe us something for being a successful football team. They are a billion dollar business...yeah so? You like this team right? You rather they be a struggling, piddling team?
They are the football team I root for. They are wealthy because they are in the NFL for 90 years in NYC and are good much of the time. And because they have fans that don't resemble you. Fans that enjoy rooting for them and prefer to see them succeed and not get thrown under the bus by a ravenous media that switches their story each day depending on what story they want to push. SO that Chris R can read their stupid stories and agree that the coach is dogshit and the GM is a dumbass and ownership is clueless and the players are worthless if there isn't a ring on their finger at the end of a season. The media is disgusting. If you are on board with their fake drama, then you're who they aim for. I care if the team wins or loses. I don't believe this behind the scenes crap about who hates who and who wanted who to get fired. OOO DID YOU SEE HOW TC DIDN'T LOOK AT MARA THE RIGHT WAY!!??!? THEY MUST WANT TO BEAT EACH OTHERS ASS!!!! It's embarrassing.
I get attached to long time team members who have been successful. Others do too. That's why there is a damn museum in the stadium and that's why people still would cheer Bill Parcells if he was shown on camera at the stadium or enjoy the Ring of Honor type stuff and watching games from the past to remember the historical team stuff.
Here's the difference between me and you and it has nothing to do with treating the team like its a child. The difference is that I root for their success and don't enjoy seeing them get dragged through the NYC media mud and embarrassed for losing. Other teams I root for get this done too but the Giants are particularly classy and successful and it's more sickening to watch. You on the other hand demand wins and if there is not a win or a ring then FUC@)(@#! the Giants. They suck and everyone should be fired and these players suck ass and should get cut because they owe Chris R a successful team. If not? Then you eat up this media bullshit and want them to be blasted and people fired. So who exactly is on the high horse? Me because I root for the team and like the franchise? Or you because they better win or else?
I look forward to future abuse of your dumbass comments.
Lets Go Giants
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You act like the Giants are a child that should be loved regardless of what they do. They're not, they're a billion dollar business. You supporting them through fuck ups isn't a badge of honor - get off your high horse.
I never even was a member of the vast and huge group of posters who mocks the living hell out of you on BBI no matter what you post because I never got to experience a gem like this. Now I'll get to sit high on my horse and join the party.
I don't entirely understand what the hell this means in the context of what I am saying. Maybe you're a media member? Not sure. Either way my point in this case is that I'll never sit there and join the media in their totally contrived bullshit agenda because it's just that: contrived bullshit. All this nonsense with TC and Reese is made up and intentional for the purpose of stories they need to create.
If you don't get that then you are way way way below my f(#(@)( highhorse. I don't look at this billion dollar company and think the people involved are fair game and deserve to be publicly derided and embarrassed because they owe us something for being a successful football team. They are a billion dollar business...yeah so? You like this team right? You rather they be a struggling, piddling team?
They are the football team I root for. They are wealthy because they are in the NFL for 90 years in NYC and are good much of the time. And because they have fans that don't resemble you. Fans that enjoy rooting for them and prefer to see them succeed and not get thrown under the bus by a ravenous media that switches their story each day depending on what story they want to push. SO that Chris R can read their stupid stories and agree that the coach is dogshit and the GM is a dumbass and ownership is clueless and the players are worthless if there isn't a ring on their finger at the end of a season. The media is disgusting. If you are on board with their fake drama, then you're who they aim for. I care if the team wins or loses. I don't believe this behind the scenes crap about who hates who and who wanted who to get fired. OOO DID YOU SEE HOW TC DIDN'T LOOK AT MARA THE RIGHT WAY!!??!? THEY MUST WANT TO BEAT EACH OTHERS ASS!!!! It's embarrassing.
I get attached to long time team members who have been successful. Others do too. That's why there is a damn museum in the stadium and that's why people still would cheer Bill Parcells if he was shown on camera at the stadium or enjoy the Ring of Honor type stuff and watching games from the past to remember the historical team stuff.
Here's the difference between me and you and it has nothing to do with treating the team like its a child. The difference is that I root for their success and don't enjoy seeing them get dragged through the NYC media mud and embarrassed for losing. Other teams I root for get this done too but the Giants are particularly classy and successful and it's more sickening to watch. You on the other hand demand wins and if there is not a win or a ring then FUC@)(@#! the Giants. They suck and everyone should be fired and these players suck ass and should get cut because they owe Chris R a successful team. If not? Then you eat up this media bullshit and want them to be blasted and people fired. So who exactly is on the high horse? Me because I root for the team and like the franchise? Or you because they better win or else?
I look forward to future abuse of your dumbass comments.
Lets Go Giants
You take sports way too seriously.
My 2 cents is that they both should have been fired. You can't live off 2007 and 2011 as the GM if your coach can't. Especially when the GM has been procuring not the greatest talent, to let the Oline deteriorate like it did is just criminal.
I do think there is something seriously wrong with this org and in respect to players injuries. We either pick soft players or they become soft once the get here.
Either way that has to be fixed.
The only defense I think Reese has is that he was handcuffed by the cap and was told by ownership to minimize spending to get to this point where they are now.
This was not TC's offense anymore. It hasn't been for the last 2 years. It seems like the FO wants a change in philosophy and they have been moving that way.
They now have 50+ million in CAP space, and Iron Man Franchise QB and a star WR. To be honest there is nobody on D that I would care to even keep. They are all replaceable.
There is more to the story than we all know. The FO is always very tight lipped.
I hate seeing TC leave, but its time to change. I am willing to see what JR has up his sleeve this off season and I will be open.
The one thing I beg is that they don't hire a newbie when you have a franchise QB with at his peak.
I want at least 1 more SB and I don't think I will see it with Eli.
All I can say is prepare for more of the same...
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In comment 12743032 SethFromAstoria said:
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In comment 12742927 SomeFan said:
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analyst Anderson in the NFL agrees. there is no contrary argument worth a shit when you have terrible talent it is the talent scouting and talent Eva.uators who need to be replaced. Glazier is exactly right
You say this if Landon Collins and DRC catch interceptions and Odell Beckham pleases Dean Blandino by holding the ball for .7 more seconds?
This team with a 2 man offense and an amazingly bad defense could have literally won a few more and the opinion that the team is as bad as you say wouldn't even be possible. How can they be THAT awful and yet that close">
That argument gives more credit to TC then it does Reese or at worst absolves them both.
I never have looked at this season's team and thought the weakness was the coach. I have thought the talent was less than desirable and certain players and positions are horrible to watch every week. Namely the main problem, which also is why I don't blame the coach as much as people seem to: the defense. I don't think this team lost the ways they did because of all the various villains this board assigns blame to. I think they lost because they had a defense that repeated what they did in week one over and over again. They allowed even mediocre offenses to end the first half and more importantly end the game with drives that were direct causes of losses.
For instance week one people harp on time management and Eli's mistake. Thing is they still had the damn lead in that game and it took a 70+ yard drive in under 1:30 to lose. And the defense did what they do best: allowed the Cowboys to walk down the field and win the game after the offense (although they didn't score and end it) was on the field for 13 plays killing the clock. Just because it's POSSIBLE for the Cowboys to win because the Giants didn't put the game away doesn't mean it is an automatic that they allow a TD to lose the game in under 1:30. Of course if the Giants score points there it's one of those drives that you look back on and talk about how great it was that the offense killed the game with a 4 minute, 13 play drive. Instead they don't score as we know, but the defense steps on the field needing one stop, and instead allows 4 consecutive 1st down plays and then the game losing TD.
They only repeated that same thing 4 more times. Was it 5? I think 4. You'd think this was the worst possible loss in the first game of the year, but the Giants manage to repeat that pathetic crap over and over. And that's why we fired the coach, and missed a division title, and the playoffs of course. So yeah I definitely don't directly blame those types of losses on the coach or GM. The D had a special kind of stink to it. A loser mentality. A shit the bed when the game was on the line attribute. Not even able to stop plays when they knew what type of play was coming, and not able to man up and physically stop teams from beating them. Seriously awful.
You disagree?
I think I'd probably agree with most of that.
You're so lost and sad. Go back to leaving me alone and getting other people angry.
TC chose to play Kuhn, Newhouse and Andre Williams.
Ingredients = A case of laxatives
My gut tells me they go with McAdoo (Spags would be worse) and then in 2 years we are having this conversion again when they finally clean house. Eli’s last few years of his prime will be wasted.
Kind of surprised me as well..So not the Glazer I've "known" since he was a very young writer for the Giants Extra(?) publication..
"We all need to do a better job"
"We're evaluating everything in the organization"
"we're giving 110 %"
Blah, blah, blah...
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in the post-Reese era. These guys do not know what goes on at the very top, I don't know how you could think so. Carl gets access to players and coaches, you think he's picking the minds of Reese and the rest of the FO? They work behind closed doors. Even Pat Hanlon doesn't get that type of access. If you don't see my point now, we're never going to see eye to eye on this.
Pat Hanlon gets about 1/3 the access Banks does. He is the last to know and most likely because they need to clean up something he said or did
Minny, Hanlon pretty much gets unlimited access from what I understand..Not sure what the percentage is..Yes, I could be wrong, but he has been TC's right hand guy imv
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douche today...
Kind of surprised me as well..So not the Glazer I've "known" since he was a very young writer for the Giants Extra(?) publication..
BB, see my follow-up in the "Jerry did OK" thread. Yes, Glazer was very unprofessional, particularly since he didn't watch/listen to the PC at the time.
Guys even if you think Reese has done a poor job. Or a horrible job. Whatever. What makes you Despise this guy like he is some sort of enemy of the franchise? How do you reach a point of such anger at a guy because a bunch of guys got hurt and a bunch of others played like crap? So intensely angry you'd think the guy has not done a single thing for this team. Try to remember way back in 2014 when he drafted the best offensive player the team has ever had. Try to take yourself back in time to 2007 when he drafted a whole class of super bowl Champs. You may decide you don't like the job he's done but not wish death on the guy
Depends on whether or not he got the OK from the puppetmaster.
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In comment 12743059 Chris in Philly said:
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douche today...
Kind of surprised me as well..So not the Glazer I've "known" since he was a very young writer for the Giants Extra(?) publication..
BB, see my follow-up in the "Jerry did OK" thread. Yes, Glazer was very unprofessional, particularly since he didn't watch/listen to the PC at the time.
Excellent per usual Bobby..I'll include in this thread as well, in case it's missed
This thread and Seth's comments last night were interesting
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 8:39 am : link : reply
From a communications practice perspective, I'd love to pick Pat's brain about why they handled it this way. I know the Giants like to be upfront about everything, but putting Reese up there after Coughlin/Mara backfired almost as bad as letting Mark Antony speak at Caesar's funeral. I would've had Jerry speak the next day in a separate conference - keep the focus on Tom and make the fucking vultures like Gary Myers come back another time to get their shot at Reese. You also then don't have mixed messages - instead of a nice good-bye to Tom and a brief discussion of next steps this became a firing squad for Reese.
I also think Mara and Reese choked. They obviously were prepared with core messages - Tom has been a great leader for us, just time to move on; Jerry's responsible but has built two SB teams and can do it again; coaching search will be collective effort with all options available, etc. But they just wilted under follow-up questions. Look at how much more polished Mara is on Francesa a few hours later. Again, the focus should've been on Tom, get him out of the building, and then take the hits another day.
This gets back to Seth's point of the media, and I guess it's more of what I've noticed in the last week. BBI has got to read past the headline and the lede these days, particularly with our friends at the NYDN and the Post. The Tiki story is an example - even the morons at WFAN pointed out that the headline nowhere near reflects what Tiki said. There was a Ralph story the other day that had literally two sentences of news or unique reporting and even that included the infamous "sources". The only goal is to draw eyeballs.
The Glazer tweet is also indicative - responding to BB56's post, what I tried to say quickly but failed was that Glazer was retweeting PFT's tweet that Jerry said "He's responsible, but everybody's involved". So he's not actually watching the press conference - he didn't know TC had already left while Jerry was talking. And to call an executive at a organization that you cover "chickenshit" is as unprofessional as it gets. Glazer is a reporter, not a columnist like Simmons. Would you ever see a WSJ or Bloomberg reporter call Jaime Dimon or Lloyd Bankfein chickenshit?
We all here need to relax because the media is just click baiting. This is my rant for the day.
Coughlin brought the house down with his speech. If he had any idea that he was going to say those words, the sctructure of the press conference should have changed.
The owner had to speak, of course, but when you know the GM struggles with public speaking and seems, in fact, to have a speech impediment or a stutter, you kind of hung him out to dry.
Coughlin brought the house down with his speech. If he had any idea that he was going to say those words, the sctructure of the press conference should have changed.
The owner had to speak, of course, but when you know the GM struggles with public speaking and seems, in fact, to have a speech impediment or a stutter, you kind of hung him out to dry.
TTH, I think it was the correct order..As TC did, Reese should have taken the time the day/night before the presser, to carefully outline and organize his thoughts instead of effectively winging it..That's not on Hanlon imv
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I agree it's something of a misplay by Hanlon.
Coughlin brought the house down with his speech. If he had any idea that he was going to say those words, the sctructure of the press conference should have changed.
The owner had to speak, of course, but when you know the GM struggles with public speaking and seems, in fact, to have a speech impediment or a stutter, you kind of hung him out to dry.
TTH, I think it was the correct order..As TC did, Reese should have taken the time the day/night before the presser, to carefully outline and organize his thoughts instead of effectively winging it..That's not on Hanlon imv
BB, having Reese go the next day would've given them the ability to prep further based on the questions to Mara and the mood of the room, which became contentious real quick. You also might have had some attrition from some of the at-large writers who were there only for Tom - the Myers, the Tara Sullivans of the world. I don't think they anticipated the ferocity of the media toward Reese, considering up to a few weeks ago he had never been treated like this.
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I agree it's something of a misplay by Hanlon.
Coughlin brought the house down with his speech. If he had any idea that he was going to say those words, the sctructure of the press conference should have changed.
The owner had to speak, of course, but when you know the GM struggles with public speaking and seems, in fact, to have a speech impediment or a stutter, you kind of hung him out to dry.
TTH, I think it was the correct order..As TC did, Reese should have taken the time the day/night before the presser, to carefully outline and organize his thoughts instead of effectively winging it..That's not on Hanlon imv
Coaching up the person that's going to be doing the speaking is usually on the PR guy. Even the President gets coached up on how to approach a press conference.
What do you think he does?
That is a press secretary you just described for media stuff outside the mandated NFL media access.
That does not grant you any kind of access to anything but someones schedule. I like Pat, but have you seen what a loose cannon he is at times? You honestly think players or assts are going to discuss gripes or lockerroom info to him before they would to Banks, and ex-player who has the rep of not being biased in his take on things and has coaches and players ears?
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he arranges all forms of media contact with the team. Arranges and schedules interviews. Makes sure there are proper arrangements and priorities. I think literally every media contact that people want to make with the Giants is his arena and that includes everything from press conf. announcements and releases to players on talk shows or whatever....
What do you think he does?
That is a press secretary you just described for media stuff outside the mandated NFL media access.
That does not grant you any kind of access to anything but someones schedule. I like Pat, but have you seen what a loose cannon he is at times? You honestly think players or assts are going to discuss gripes or lockerroom info to him before they would to Banks, and ex-player who has the rep of not being biased in his take on things and has coaches and players ears?
Minny, however, in all the years he's been there, has he ever revealed anything that the team didn't want let out? I haven't..He has personal opinions and good for him. It's not just a job to him, he bleeds blue..In this day and age, I find that kinda cool..
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In comment 12743218 SethFromAstoria said:
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he arranges all forms of media contact with the team. Arranges and schedules interviews. Makes sure there are proper arrangements and priorities. I think literally every media contact that people want to make with the Giants is his arena and that includes everything from press conf. announcements and releases to players on talk shows or whatever....
What do you think he does?
That is a press secretary you just described for media stuff outside the mandated NFL media access.
That does not grant you any kind of access to anything but someones schedule. I like Pat, but have you seen what a loose cannon he is at times? You honestly think players or assts are going to discuss gripes or lockerroom info to him before they would to Banks, and ex-player who has the rep of not being biased in his take on things and has coaches and players ears?
Minny, however, in all the years he's been there, has he ever revealed anything that the team didn't want let out? I haven't..He has personal opinions and good for him. It's not just a job to him, he bleeds blue..In this day and age, I find that kinda cool..
No because the media feeds on which way the wind is blowing. The leaped on what the experts and ex-players were all saying and what Mara himself said at the presser