Was listening just now to Dan Patrick talking to Rich Eisen. He said that he understands the outpouring of emotion from former players, but that he's surprised that the media has been so supportive of Coughlin because he did deserve to be fired. Coaches who post losing records for three straight years and miss the playoffs six of seven years get fired. He asked Eisen if he agreed with that opinion, and Eisen agreed.
Im not looking to pick fights, but a whole bunch of people have asked for an example of anyone in the media who disn't say that it was a mistake, and here are two.
-we've stunk in general since the superbowl. something like 5 wins against teams that ended the season with winning records
and
-hes obviously a good coach and our GM has missed horribly for years. injuries havent helped.
And that's without pointing a finger at the fanbase, who apparently were TC lovers all along. At least the fans aren't expected to make a lot of sense in most cases.
So, basically, he said the firing was not unexpected because that is the nature of the business.
Gruden implied the same during the Sunday broadcast when he said Noll, Shula and Landry were all fired.
I don't think either Gruden or Parcells were commenting on whether the firing was "justified." They were just saying that's what happens if you miss the playoffs a bunch of years. The coach is going to go eventually. Regardless of what he has done in the past.
If and I understand that it's a big if, but if Reese fucks up it puts us back at least another 3 years! I'm not looking forward to seeing that happen. As I've stated before, it is what it is, I'm just a fan, so I hope he succeeds!
Injuries? Of course.
Coaching? The lesser of the three for me, but still as issue at times this season and in past seasons.
All factors have to be taken into account. Was the firing justified? I guess. But when you take a deeper look, Tom Coughlin could have won 11 games with this shitty roster. We know he had troubles with clock management in many games this year. The team played hard for him though. They could have overachieved just as easily as they underachieved.
One other thing Patrick said - he was shocked when Coughlin did nothing with Beckham during the Carolina game. Said that it made him look like a coach that had lost it.
But the roster is in shambles and that is another big problem. He's not alone in the team's downfall.
So, basically, he said the firing was not unexpected because that is the nature of the business.
Gruden implied the same during the Sunday broadcast when he said Noll, Shula and Landry were all fired.
I don't think either Gruden or Parcells were commenting on whether the firing was "justified." They were just saying that's what happens if you miss the playoffs a bunch of years. The coach is going to go eventually. Regardless of what he has done in the past.
How the hell would Parcells know, there's a guy who never waited for the train to stop, he was always hopping off at full speed.
One other thing Patrick said - he was shocked when Coughlin did nothing with Beckham during the Carolina game. Said that it made him look like a coach that had lost it.
I have yet to be made to understand why that doesn't fall on a coach, especially a coach that's notorious for micromanaging, and prides himself on it.
Tom Coughlin has been made to look like a scapegoat.
Just going by results he probably deserved to be fired last year when Fewell went.
One other thing Patrick said - he was shocked when Coughlin did nothing with Beckham during the Carolina game. Said that it made him look like a coach that had lost it.
What bothered me about the OBJ situation - wasn't so much that TC didn't do anything, was that Hanlon said he had to put together film clips to show TC what had happened.
Now I get that the coach has a different viewpoint and different tasks going on during the game, but that was the most obvious and blatant situation where a player needed to be corralled in all the time I've been watching football. If he needed to have film spliced together to see it, then you have to question how much more TC was missing during that game.
Regardless of whether you think Coughlin could have ever coached us to the Super Bowl again, middle-of-the-pack personnel acquisition in those dark years mean we probably would have avoided these losing seasons and made the playoffs at least a couple times. TC probably keeps his job in that scenario, again, whether you're for or against that.
-we've stunk in general since the superbowl. something like 5 wins against teams that ended the season with winning records
and
-hes obviously a good coach and our GM has missed horribly for years. injuries havent helped.
I've yet to read or hear a solid argument to retaining a 70 year old that has missed the playoffs 6 of 7 years without one game lost from his terrific QB and while playing in a generally mediocre division over that span.
but...
A) this does not mean i'm not saddened that it came to this. An awkward press conference and decision made after week 17 when we could have given Coughlin a proper send off last week. I do think Coughlin is a HOF coach, one of the greatest coaches ever to lead this franchise, and someone who should be inducted in Canton.
B) I also do not think a solid argument can be made for retaining Reese (or Ross). Yet the Giants somehow found a way to fuck that up and the guy proceeded to make a fool of himself in the press conference.
Agree, but it seems like this year was the measuring stick. When you take into account how this team should have strolled into a division championship, it makes the failures of 2015 seem a lot worse, I would think, from an outsiders perspective when compared to the past few seasons.
In 2011 the team had enough talent to win the SB, yet TC could only get them to 9-7. He lost twice to a Redskins team that finished with 5 wins and had Rex Grossman at QB. Like this year, the Giants did not show up for a crucial late season matchup, getting whipped 23-10. All the weapons the Giants had in 2011 and they score 10 points in a must-win game against the lousy Redskins?
In fact, the inability to beat division opponents in important games is what really did him in.
Exactly. Coughlin was a great coach, but it was time.
What I don't understand is that if you identify personnel as one of the issues your team has had for a number of years, how come there were no firings in that department
What we've all seen, though, and we've seen it more and more over the last two seasons, is that he doesn't seem to be on top of in-game coaching. The Xs and Os part is okay, I guess -- though the team has looked lost on defense for most of TC's tenure -- but his in-game coaching has been bad, and getting worse: Time management issues that cost the team games. Clueless on the OBJ incident. Self-defeating substitution patterns at running back. Everyone here could add to that list.
TC reached his greatest coaching heights by changing his approach and becoming more "human." His humanity is the most admirable thing about his approach. But I think he was beginning to neglect the other parts of coaching, or at least take them for granted. His attention to detail and to preparation seems not to have extended to himself.
But another thing: Someone posted that Sights & Sounds compilation of Bill Belichik, where he told Tom Brady about the Giants "It's the same people who were here when I was here," and that people stay until they die, except the coaches. That continuity and longevity are a great thing about the Giants, but it's crept into the coaching staff as well. The strength and conditioning regime needs to be changed. We could identify other areas as well. It's the Giants' turn to evolve, and they need to be less sentimental. I
Browse the many Coughlin/Reese threads and you will find more than a few people saying that it's notable that all of the media people and former players are taking Coughlin's side, and asking for an example of someone in the media who didnt
In 2011 the team had enough talent to win the SB, yet TC could only get them to 9-7. He lost twice to a Redskins team that finished with 5 wins and had Rex Grossman at QB. Like this year, the Giants did not show up for a crucial late season matchup, getting whipped 23-10. All the weapons the Giants had in 2011 and they score 10 points in a must-win game against the lousy Redskins?
In fact, the inability to beat division opponents in important games is what really did him in.
Seriously - I'm still defrosting from that Redskins game in 2007 where we inexplicably threw the ball 50 times into swirling winds in a loss.
The issue many of us have is that the above is more due to the lack of talent on the roster than a poor coached, excellent roster (see Jerry Burns, Minnesota). We acknowledge that that Tom Coughlin likely had a non-trivial role in the drafting and free agent selection.
The concern is that if a case can be made that the head coach had to go, keeping the GM because he built two Super Bowl winners (debatable for the 2007 team) and yet built the roster than didn't make the playoffs 3 straight years and 6 of the last 7 makes no sense.
Among:
1) Keep Coughlin and Reese
2) Keep Coughlin and fire Reese
3) Fire Coughlin and keep Reese
4) Fire Coughlin and Reese
Choice 3), which is what the Giants did, makes the least sense.
I think the uproar is if he missed 6 out of 7, so did Jerry Reese and yet he gets to keep his job making it sound like getting guys like Unga and Meriweather and Newhouse and were good players because the Giants were close in games. These guys along with a host of others SUCKED and he gets a free pass.
Three of the Giants top players never really played this year:
Cruz
Beatty
JPP (one arm player doesn't count)
And that was before the season got going and the rest of the players started dropping like flies.
Quote:
Coughlin continually underperformed in the regular season.
In 2011 the team had enough talent to win the SB, yet TC could only get them to 9-7. He lost twice to a Redskins team that finished with 5 wins and had Rex Grossman at QB. Like this year, the Giants did not show up for a crucial late season matchup, getting whipped 23-10. All the weapons the Giants had in 2011 and they score 10 points in a must-win game against the lousy Redskins?
In fact, the inability to beat division opponents in important games is what really did him in.
Seriously - I'm still defrosting from that Redskins game in 2007 where we inexplicably threw the ball 50 times into swirling winds in a loss.
I was at that game freezing my ass off. Thanks for reminding me.
The issue many of us have is that the above is more due to the lack of talent on the roster than a poor coached, excellent roster (see Jerry Burns, Minnesota). We acknowledge that that Tom Coughlin likely had a non-trivial role in the drafting and free agent selection.
The concern is that if a case can be made that the head coach had to go, keeping the GM because he built two Super Bowl winners (debatable for the 2007 team) and yet built the roster than didn't make the playoffs 3 straight years and 6 of the last 7 makes no sense.
Among:
1) Keep Coughlin and Reese
2) Keep Coughlin and fire Reese
3) Fire Coughlin and keep Reese
4) Fire Coughlin and Reese
Choice 3), which is what the Giants did, makes the least sense.
How does #3 "make the least sense"
You're gonna tell me with a straight face that firing Reese and keeping a 70 year old HC "makes sense"
That was never an option.
Quote:
In comment 12744206 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Coughlin continually underperformed in the regular season.
In 2011 the team had enough talent to win the SB, yet TC could only get them to 9-7. He lost twice to a Redskins team that finished with 5 wins and had Rex Grossman at QB. Like this year, the Giants did not show up for a crucial late season matchup, getting whipped 23-10. All the weapons the Giants had in 2011 and they score 10 points in a must-win game against the lousy Redskins?
In fact, the inability to beat division opponents in important games is what really did him in.
Seriously - I'm still defrosting from that Redskins game in 2007 where we inexplicably threw the ball 50 times into swirling winds in a loss.
I was at that game freezing my ass off. Thanks for reminding me.
Again, the Giants were decimated by injuries most of the year, but managed to get healthy as the playoffs approached. I'm not saying that Coughlin didn't make any bad coaching decisions, but you have to look at all the factors.
Quote:
In comment 12744275 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12744206 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Coughlin continually underperformed in the regular season.
In 2011 the team had enough talent to win the SB, yet TC could only get them to 9-7. He lost twice to a Redskins team that finished with 5 wins and had Rex Grossman at QB. Like this year, the Giants did not show up for a crucial late season matchup, getting whipped 23-10. All the weapons the Giants had in 2011 and they score 10 points in a must-win game against the lousy Redskins?
In fact, the inability to beat division opponents in important games is what really did him in.
Seriously - I'm still defrosting from that Redskins game in 2007 where we inexplicably threw the ball 50 times into swirling winds in a loss.
I was at that game freezing my ass off. Thanks for reminding me.
Again, the Giants were decimated by injuries most of the year, but managed to get healthy as the playoffs approached. I'm not saying that Coughlin didn't make any bad coaching decisions, but you have to look at all the factors.
No, injuries were not an issue in that game. We should have beaten them. The Giants knew it. Shit, the Redskins knew it. Coaching was as much a culprit as anything else, leading someone to write this summary:
Yeah it’s short. But it’s not worth the heartache to re-watch that game tape any more. The bottom line is this: The Giants have given us as fans no reason to believe that this season will end any differently then last season and the season before that. A few meager victories over teams in a downward spiral do not mask the fact that once again, this team has been figured out by the other coaches in the league.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that Coach Coughlin’s half time speech didn’t exactly incite a fire in them either as they pretty much came out and laid down, letting the Skins score. The lax play on defense was only outdone by the outrageous number of dropped passes, which by the way are a tell tale sign that this team was in no way shape or form prepared for this game.
Furthermore, Coughlin has to be blamed for not doing something with Gilbride. At some point, he’s got to take responsibility for his coaching staff, and at no time in the past four years has the play calling been worse than it was on Sunday night.
Amid all of the drops, missed tackles, poor execution and the lapses on defense, there were some bright spots. Some of the younger guys like, Moss, Bradshaw, Dockery, Ross, Johnson and Smith look to be on their way to productive NFL careers. This team has drafted well as of late. At least the new coaching staff will have a nice young nucleus to build around.
Coughlin will finally make an adjustment though. Make no mistake, Kill-drive will run, run, run, and use plenty of play action on Sunday to beat a reeling Buffalo Bills team and get our hopes up one last time. Then there will be the fiasco against the 15-0 Patriots before the last chapter of this season. But we don’t need to read it. Rest assured, we know well how this book ends.
Luckily, the Giants got hot and made a run. But let's not pretend that the malaise we've experienced the past few years came from nowhere.
Mara and Tisch can't see the forest for the trees.
No pass rush this year - JPP being out had a lot to do with that.
and players with potential being unavailable due to injuries - Kennard, Odi. Think McBride was banged up much of this year, Prince.
Despite all that team was competitive most games. There were indications key elements of team were getting better. Offense finished 8th. Had Cruz been back and Beatty (benefit to run game) offense would have been even better.
This is how these careers usually end. TC will be fine.
Might point to a few players with injury histories he might have been overly optimistic about -Kennard? Odi?
He made some moves to shore up defense. For example, thought Joey in Va was overstating the importance of Ellis playing up to his ability. Ellis didn't and instead of a Ellis Hankins bookends, we would up with Kuhn and Jenkins and eventually Bromley (who I think will be okay). In hindsight, as insignificant a player as Ellis appeared to be - his failure made a big, if not huge, difference
NOBODY prepares like Tom does (even Bill Bieichick concedes this); where he lost it is on the field - situation awareness and adjustment. It's a subtle thing, but when it happens, it a KILLER.
Were they ready for a Super Bowl run next year anyway?
But in my view between Coughlin and Jerry? Either they should BOTH go, or neither should go. And all of the expounding by Mara and Reese about "It was the Personnel, especially on defense..." has only doubled the strength of my feelings in that regard.
If it was so cut and dried that TC had "Run his course" as some people make it out, there wouldn't be this kind of uproar about it. The fact is, it wasn't clear cut. When you are the most injured team in the NFL for at least 2 of those years, it's not clear cut. When you are trotting out guys that are not NFL material to fill your depth, it's not clear cut. Add in the fact that despite those two (GIGANTIC) issues your team is playing hard, is competitive in every single game, that your team is actually in the lead in 5 or 6 of your losses... it's definitely NOT clear cut.
That said, With the cap space we have, and Jerry Reese on notice, hell EVERYONE on notice that we need better defensive personnel... why wouldn't you keep your Super Bowl MVP and the coach he has had his whole career together for another run with some actual TALENT around them?? How many years does Eli have left... 5? Are you telling me that Coughlin is so done that we couldn't wait another 5 years and try to build the talent level back up with our current cap room? I don't buy that.
That's a pretty accurate take on this season and past ones.
Additionally, while the talent on the roster was lacking, you can't use that excuse when you coach them up for 58 minutes, but fail in the final 2.
That's on the TC, and his staff at that point.
His credo is finish, and they didn't do it this year.
Three losing seasons and missing playoffs six of the last seven, this change was warranted.
A two-hole Guillotine, huh? I guess they could encourage each other while waiting for the blade to drop.
Quote:
We are now ready for our Super Bowl run. Right?
Were they ready for a Super Bowl run next year anyway?
This is the singular point certain posters on this site cannot intellectually honestly argue.
There is no reasonable expectation the next coach will duplicate Coughlin's championships. There are 13 total coaches with 2 rings. Of the 450 or so HCs ever, he's in the top 1%.
Coughlin also has roughly the same winning % of guys like John Gruden and Dan Reeves, and declining number of victories until the this year where we he equaled the 6 from '14.
Of the 95 coaches with 50+ wins in the NFL, Coughlin is 56th in winning percentage.
So the question is really, at 69 years old, coming off back-to-back 6 win seasons, if we invest in a young or mid-career coach, will he have a better chance of being a slightly above .500 coach in his tenure, which is what Coughlin has become.
2) I think where a lot of people are upset is that Reese still has a job as does his staff when the owner said the problem was lack of personnel.
It has little to do with whether Reese "deserves" to get fired. This is not about justice but about what is best for the organization.
That's what set the reporters off, they were essentially being treated as children by those who ought to know better.
Quote:
did not exactly justify the firing. But he used a train metaphor: you have to know when to get off the train because if you don't, they are going to throw you off. It happens to everybody.
So, basically, he said the firing was not unexpected because that is the nature of the business.
Gruden implied the same during the Sunday broadcast when he said Noll, Shula and Landry were all fired.
I don't think either Gruden or Parcells were commenting on whether the firing was "justified." They were just saying that's what happens if you miss the playoffs a bunch of years. The coach is going to go eventually. Regardless of what he has done in the past.
How the hell would Parcells know, there's a guy who never waited for the train to stop, he was always hopping off at full speed.
We think it does, simply because it's obvious that the talent is lacking and from our perspective, one man is most responsible for acquiring that talent.
But I'm really starting to suspect that's not actually the case, that the talent might've been more influenced by Coughlin than we know, and that Reese and Mara didn't want to explicitly point this out.
The owner was pointing out specific draft classes taht should have produced 3-5 year vets. The round 3-7 thing came from Raanaan, not Mara.
Quote:
In comment 12744165 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
did not exactly justify the firing. But he used a train metaphor: you have to know when to get off the train because if you don't, they are going to throw you off. It happens to everybody.
So, basically, he said the firing was not unexpected because that is the nature of the business.
Gruden implied the same during the Sunday broadcast when he said Noll, Shula and Landry were all fired.
I don't think either Gruden or Parcells were commenting on whether the firing was "justified." They were just saying that's what happens if you miss the playoffs a bunch of years. The coach is going to go eventually. Regardless of what he has done in the past.
How the hell would Parcells know, there's a guy who never waited for the train to stop, he was always hopping off at full speed.
when he left the team after the Super Bowl I think he saw that the immediate future was not too bright for the Giants. Probably why he jumped off when he did.
Which is why Coughlin is my favorite coach of all time. Parcells knew HE couldn't win. With Coughlin WE coudn't win. He bled Giants Blue.
In 2011 the team had enough talent to win the SB, yet TC could only get them to 9-7. He lost twice to a Redskins team that finished with 5 wins and had Rex Grossman at QB. Like this year, the Giants did not show up for a crucial late season matchup, getting whipped 23-10. All the weapons the Giants had in 2011 and they score 10 points in a must-win game against the lousy Redskins?
In fact, the inability to beat division opponents in important games is what really did him in.
This
Quote:
is that Coughlin and his staff underperformed in several seasons and faltered in the 2nd half of the season several times, but gets fired the year he and his staff do one of their best jobs with a talent depleted roster.
That's a pretty accurate take on this season and past ones.
Additionally, while the talent on the roster was lacking, you can't use that excuse when you coach them up for 58 minutes, but fail in the final 2.
That's on the TC, and his staff at that point.
His credo is finish, and they didn't do it this year.
Three losing seasons and missing playoffs six of the last seven, this change was warranted.
This
Quote:
In comment 12744300 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
In comment 12744275 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12744206 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Coughlin continually underperformed in the regular season.
In 2011 the team had enough talent to win the SB, yet TC could only get them to 9-7. He lost twice to a Redskins team that finished with 5 wins and had Rex Grossman at QB. Like this year, the Giants did not show up for a crucial late season matchup, getting whipped 23-10. All the weapons the Giants had in 2011 and they score 10 points in a must-win game against the lousy Redskins?
In fact, the inability to beat division opponents in important games is what really did him in.
Seriously - I'm still defrosting from that Redskins game in 2007 where we inexplicably threw the ball 50 times into swirling winds in a loss.
I was at that game freezing my ass off. Thanks for reminding me.
Again, the Giants were decimated by injuries most of the year, but managed to get healthy as the playoffs approached. I'm not saying that Coughlin didn't make any bad coaching decisions, but you have to look at all the factors.
No, injuries were not an issue in that game. We should have beaten them. The Giants knew it. Shit, the Redskins knew it. Coaching was as much a culprit as anything else, leading someone to write this summary:
Quote:
Yeah it’s short. But it’s not worth the heartache to re-watch that game tape any more. The bottom line is this: The Giants have given us as fans no reason to believe that this season will end any differently then last season and the season before that. A few meager victories over teams in a downward spiral do not mask the fact that once again, this team has been figured out by the other coaches in the league.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that Coach Coughlin’s half time speech didn’t exactly incite a fire in them either as they pretty much came out and laid down, letting the Skins score. The lax play on defense was only outdone by the outrageous number of dropped passes, which by the way are a tell tale sign that this team was in no way shape or form prepared for this game.
Furthermore, Coughlin has to be blamed for not doing something with Gilbride. At some point, he’s got to take responsibility for his coaching staff, and at no time in the past four years has the play calling been worse than it was on Sunday night.
Amid all of the drops, missed tackles, poor execution and the lapses on defense, there were some bright spots. Some of the younger guys like, Moss, Bradshaw, Dockery, Ross, Johnson and Smith look to be on their way to productive NFL careers. This team has drafted well as of late. At least the new coaching staff will have a nice young nucleus to build around.
Coughlin will finally make an adjustment though. Make no mistake, Kill-drive will run, run, run, and use plenty of play action on Sunday to beat a reeling Buffalo Bills team and get our hopes up one last time. Then there will be the fiasco against the 15-0 Patriots before the last chapter of this season. But we don’t need to read it. Rest assured, we know well how this book ends.
Luckily, the Giants got hot and made a run. But let's not pretend that the malaise we've experienced the past few years came from nowhere.
Holy Fooking shit. You take a badly played game out of a season that the Giants won the Superbowl against the Belicek-Brady Patriots to make a point about TC being inept?
Lord Love a Fooking duck! That season was absolutely defined by injuries holding the team back during the regular season, and then getting healthy for a playoff run.
Castigate the training staff for that as by now clearly something is wrong in the strength and conditioning program after 3 straight years of leading the league (at least top 3?) in starters lost to injury status...
That's not TC or his coaching staff...
Coughlin will finally make an adjustment though. Make no mistake, Kill-drive will run, run, run, and use plenty of play action on Sunday to beat a reeling Buffalo Bills team and get our hopes up one last time. Then there will be the fiasco against the 15-0 Patriots before the last chapter of this season. But we don’t need to read it. Rest assured, we know well how this book ends.
Luckily, the Giants got hot and made a run. But let's not pretend that the malaise we've experienced the past few years came from nowhere.
Holy Fooking shit. You take a badly played game out of a season that the Giants won the Superbowl against the Belicek-Brady Patriots to make a point about TC being inept?
Lord Love a Fooking duck! That season was absolutely defined by injuries holding the team back during the regular season, and then getting healthy for a playoff run.
That's not TC or his coaching staff...
The "injured" season was 2011. The absurd Redskins gameplan was in 2007.
99% of the time, you dont even make the playoffs at 9-7. Doesnt take away from the 2011 run, but we were lucky Romo airmailed a ball over Miles Austin to even have the opportunity. In almost every way, our 2010 team was actually more deserving of getting a shot to play for a title than the 2011 version. First champ in league history to give up more points during a season than it scored.
Quote:
And then to compound that Reese gets up there trying to defend his selections over the last 4 years in rds 3-7 as not being that bad. This right after the owner even pointed out how bad they were
The owner was pointing out specific draft classes taht should have produced 3-5 year vets. The round 3-7 thing came from Raanaan, not Mara.
That is pure speculation with zero basis dealing with any real facts. That has been much of the Reese defense argument also, A ton of deflection and blaming mixed in with some mind reading skills
Quote:
In comment 12744362 jcn56 said:
Coughlin will finally make an adjustment though. Make no mistake, Kill-drive will run, run, run, and use plenty of play action on Sunday to beat a reeling Buffalo Bills team and get our hopes up one last time. Then there will be the fiasco against the 15-0 Patriots before the last chapter of this season. But we don’t need to read it. Rest assured, we know well how this book ends.
Luckily, the Giants got hot and made a run. But let's not pretend that the malaise we've experienced the past few years came from nowhere.
Holy Fooking shit. You take a badly played game out of a season that the Giants won the Superbowl against the Belicek-Brady Patriots to make a point about TC being inept?
Lord Love a Fooking duck! That season was absolutely defined by injuries holding the team back during the regular season, and then getting healthy for a playoff run.
That's not TC or his coaching staff...
The "injured" season was 2011. The absurd Redskins gameplan was in 2007.
99% of the time, you dont even make the playoffs at 9-7. Doesnt take away from the 2011 run, but we were lucky Romo airmailed a ball over Miles Austin to even have the opportunity. In almost every way, our 2010 team was actually more deserving of getting a shot to play for a title than the 2011 version. First champ in league history to give up more points during a season than it scored.
There was also a year we finished 10-6 and didn't make it. You can go throughout every season and game and pick ways in which the balls either went for or against us. You can't cherry pick the times that luck allowed us to get in and then not count the times luck kept us out.
We have also been losing to our division opponents.
Quote:
In comment 12744706 montanagiant said:
Quote:
And then to compound that Reese gets up there trying to defend his selections over the last 4 years in rds 3-7 as not being that bad. This right after the owner even pointed out how bad they were
The owner was pointing out specific draft classes taht should have produced 3-5 year vets. The round 3-7 thing came from Raanaan, not Mara.
That is pure speculation with zero basis dealing with any real facts. That has been much of the Reese defense argument also, A ton of deflection and blaming mixed in with some mind reading skills
You're the one bringing up misses in rounds 3-5, that never came out of Mara's mouth. He was talking about the draft classes that was decimated by injuries and its share of misses that should be producing 3-5 year vets. How am I speculating, when we're talking about specific statements from the owner? The presentation of your facts is BS, they are incomplete. Others have poked holes on that spreadsheet already. Let's not pretend that some of the statistics are flawed, but presented and digested by some as some sort of definitive proof.
Quote:
In comment 12745310 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 12744706 montanagiant said:
Quote:
And then to compound that Reese gets up there trying to defend his selections over the last 4 years in rds 3-7 as not being that bad. This right after the owner even pointed out how bad they were
The owner was pointing out specific draft classes taht should have produced 3-5 year vets. The round 3-7 thing came from Raanaan, not Mara.
That is pure speculation with zero basis dealing with any real facts. That has been much of the Reese defense argument also, A ton of deflection and blaming mixed in with some mind reading skills
You're the one bringing up misses in rounds 3-5, that never came out of Mara's mouth. He was talking about the draft classes that was decimated by injuries and its share of misses that should be producing 3-5 year vets. How am I speculating, when we're talking about specific statements from the owner? The presentation of your facts is BS, they are incomplete. Others have poked holes on that spreadsheet already. Let's not pretend that some of the statistics are flawed, but presented and digested by some as some sort of definitive proof.
Dave you crack me up, you want it spelled out literally for you for anyone not in your line of reasoning. Meanwhile you constantly use complete leaps of logic, snap judgments and mind-melding to make up your argument.
What do you think he meant by 3-5 year players? Have you ever heard that the draft is where you get your base, your depth that the stars build on? Your going to sit here and be obtuse because Mara did not come right out and say "later rounds have been shit under Reese", when EVERYONE else but you knows what he means. At the same time your sitting here telling everyone how much pull Coughlin has in the draft room and FA signings with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what he has.
It is amazing to watch you do this
Yeah, and then Reese comes in and compounds it with his "I take full accountability, but not really" nonsense.