Any team for a FO job not named the Giants I will lose at least half the respect I have for john Mara. Now if he's a HC somewhere I will understand. I really wouldn't mind him coaching Jameis Wintsom the kid reminds me of an athletic Eli.
Yeah But... but... but... Coughlin is old and sucks now!
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
Could you imagine Coughlin leading the Eagles into MetLife next year
Yeah But... but... but... Coughlin is old and sucks now!
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
Good, I'm glad Coughlin can share the emotions I had when I paid a healthy sum of money to watch the Giants shit the bed against the Matt Moore led Carolina Panthers in the last game at Giants Stadium.
Everything on the line, closing out the old stadium, clear talent advantage, team shit the bed.
Does anyone really fear a Coughlin coached team at this point?
Let him go to the Eagles. He's shown a complete inability to get a team to play better than its personnel lately. How's the Eagles' personnel? If he goes there, they'll go 5-11. He's not a good coach anymore.
RE: Does anyone really fear a Coughlin coached team at this point?
Let him go to the Eagles. He's shown a complete inability to get a team to play better than its personnel lately. How's the Eagles' personnel? If he goes there, they'll go 5-11. He's not a good coach anymore.
Not saying anyone hires him. But apparently it is being reported that owners of various teams are interested in him. Maybe you should find out what teams they are and maybe they will pay you a consulting fee for your expert insights because I'm sure they'd recognize you know so much more than they do.
Yeah But... but... but... Coughlin is old and sucks now!
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
Love him all you want. He was living on borrowed time with the Giants. He had too many coaching mistakes this season. Talent or not, he made some pretty bad decisions that cost games he normally wins. On top of that, needing to have him get rid of ineffective DCs and assistants is telling.
We'll never really know how many games he won on his sheer coaching talent or how many he lost because of coaching failures. But it was pretty obvious this season was not one of his best.
I can understand him be pissed because Reese was retained, but that had nothing to do with his own situation.
RE: RE: Does anyone really fear a Coughlin coached team at this point?
He built one successful team from scratch and took another from the ashes to two Super Bowls. Even more important is he commands respect and develops his players into good men. He never lost the team and he always expresses the importance of team.
Many of the current candidates can hold a candle to Coughlin's resume
If it is the Eagles....so be it. God that would just absolutely suck. The fact that the Giants have not announced front office changes has irritated me.
I have a very hard time even imaging Coughlin as the Eagles' coach. I don't think deep inside he could really stomach it, and I don't think the Eagles really want to go with a 70 year old coach.
Front office positions make much more sense, but I would caution Giants fans not to get their hopes up. Imagine how hard it would be for Coach Coughlin to come back in an administrative position and watch someone else coach his guys. I'm not saying he won't have a job with the Giants, some day, but I would be surprised if it was this year.
RE: RE: RE: Does anyone really fear a Coughlin coached team at this point?
to Kirwan a few weeks ago and he mentioned that teams will always interview more candidates to collect Intel on their team even if they aren't serious prospects. I'm not saying TC isn't a serious candidate but, if I'm Philly, having TC and McAdoo break down their team on the board can only help in evaluating the roster, ect...
i mean isnt this how the Giants deal with players lately? let the good ones go then sign others off scrap heaps..why should coaching be any different...
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What if the Giants hire a HC who wants his own coordinators and we see both McAdoo and Spags end up with Coughlin in Philly?
Rejoice? At least with Spags. Beckham may score 5 touchdowns against a Spags led Eagles defense.
More like Philly might score 50 against a talentless Giants defense and Spags might knock Eli out.
It's sad how disrespected some Giants fans perceive Spags considering how pathetic the talent is.
He had bottom of the barrel defense with 3 different teams. This guy is breaking his own piss poor defensive records with each stop he makes. When it happens to you 3 times, with 3 different franchises how long do you get to blame the talent for? He's awful and lucky he's not out of the league.
trot out some third-rate coach at this point. We had to move on from Coughlin, but it's imperative that they choose the perfect coach to utilize the last few years of Manning. And I could do without McAdoo and Spags, it'll be comedy central if some lameduck coach brings both back.
If you thought this team was well coached this year or any of the past three years, I don't know what to tell you. I judge things with my eyes, not by what other "experts" say. This team has been pitiful since starting the 2012 season 7-2. Regular blowouts, embarrassing performances, and meltdowns in the final 2 minutes of five games this season.
Or are you saying no one is entitled to question a coach or GM because he is not a so called expert?
to an omnipotent leader of men (and I liked the guy).
The reality is however, that he never really built a sustainable program here. Our November/December record was never great under TC. We were not a consistent team under TC. He made some pretty awful choices of DCs and seemed to favor some players that weren't great.
What he did do was take advantage of two playoff runs to win two improbable SuperBowl victories over favored NE teams. For that I will always hold him in high regard. But he hasn't had a consistent record of excellence. When he has had players that fit his system of playing football he has achieved great success. But he doesn't have the flexibility of mind to adapt to his talent (or lack thereof).
I wish him good luck but to worry that he may coach somewhere else is kind of silly, and pointless.
Or are you saying no one is entitled to question a coach or GM because he is not a so called expert?
Of course not. That's why we're here. We all do it. It's fun. But let's not pretend to believe that we actually know what we're talking about. Some people here actually take themselves seriously - as though they believe they're actually qualified to be a HC or GM or owner. It's really funny.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Does anyone really fear a Coughlin coached team at this point?
In
It's sad how disrespected some Giants fans perceive Spags considering how pathetic the talent is.
He had bottom of the barrel defense with 3 different teams. This guy is breaking his own piss poor defensive records with each stop he makes. When it happens to you 3 times, with 3 different franchises how long do you get to blame the talent for? He's awful and lucky he's not out of the league.
Name the talent on the defenses he coached and how many others failed with the same talent. The Saints have been a disgrace defensively and the Rams still don't have a QB.
Jeff Fisher can't even win in St Louis and not a fan on earth can name a coach who could succeed with this Giants defense.
In comment 12752043 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
to an omnipotent leader of men (and I liked the guy).
The reality is however, that he never really built a sustainable program here. Our November/December record was never great under TC. We were not a consistent team under TC. He made some pretty awful choices of DCs and seemed to favor some players that weren't great.
What he did do was take advantage of two playoff runs to win two improbable SuperBowl victories over favored NE teams. For that I will always hold him in high regard. But he hasn't had a consistent record of excellence. When he has had players that fit his system of playing football he has achieved great success. But he doesn't have the flexibility of mind to adapt to his talent (or lack thereof).
I wish him good luck but to worry that he may coach somewhere else is kind of silly, and pointless.
Well Said
RE: I Love All The Hand Wringing Over TC to The Eagles
Or are you saying no one is entitled to question a coach or GM because he is not a so called expert?
Of course not. That's why we're here. We all do it. It's fun. But let's not pretend to believe that we actually know what we're talking about. Some people here actually take themselves seriously - as though they believe they're actually qualified to be a HC or GM or owner. It's really funny.
Can you imagine Sam Bradford running Coughlin/Gilbride offense?
He'd throw 30 ints.
Bradford scored 36 on the wonderlics. Not quite Eli/Romo/Fitzgerald territory, but a lot better than Peyton! or most other NFL QBs.
Bradford is plenty smart to run TC/KG offense. The Eagkes' OL is another story...
So Coughlin perhaps going to the Eagles doesn't surprise at all. It's about money and it always will be. No real giant would go to the enemy unless they aren't as loyal as utopian blinded fans would like to believe.
In
It's sad how disrespected some Giants fans perceive Spags considering how pathetic the talent is.
He had bottom of the barrel defense with 3 different teams. This guy is breaking his own piss poor defensive records with each stop he makes. When it happens to you 3 times, with 3 different franchises how long do you get to blame the talent for? He's awful and lucky he's not out of the league.
Name the talent on the defenses he coached and how many others failed with the same talent. The Saints have been a disgrace defensively and the Rams still don't have a QB.
Jeff Fisher can't even win in St Louis and not a fan on earth can name a coach who could succeed with this Giants defense.
The fickle love to pile on and blame.
He was the head coach of the Rams. If they had no talent on defense in St. Louis would you have me believe he had no say in acquiring that talent? And the Rams not having a QB is irrelevant. He's the DC of the Giants. I don't care about whether or not he had a QB as Rams HC. It has nothing to do with his ability to be a DC. Without Harbaugh pulling him out of the ditch and making him a position coach he'd be out of the league. I don't remember some parade of people banging down his door desperate to add him to their coaching staff after he'd be fired...again.
who wants to continue to coach. If you didn't know he was nearly 70, you wouldn't believe it. He has more energy, passion, and dedication to the job than most (if not all) coaches 20-30 years his minor.
From the Eagles perspective, it makes sense. They allowed Kelly to rebuild the roster. But, they didn't like his locker room presence and coaching. If they believe their roster is ready to take a big step forward, then why wouldn't they want a guy like Coughlin to direct it?
I'm not sure, off the top of my head, where else he makes sense.
So Coughlin perhaps going to the Eagles doesn't surprise at all. It's about money and it always will be. No real giant would go to the enemy unless they aren't as loyal as utopian blinded fans would like to believe.
Coughlin has four children and 11 grandchildren who all live on the East Coast. He still wants to coach. The Giants didn't want him anymore. But some how he is being "disloyal" if he accepts an offer from the Eagles to do what he loves and be near his children and grandchildren? Tom Coughlin should give up his life and dreams to make YOU happy? Holy shit.
were pretty adamant that no team could possibly be interested. Wrong.
We can discuss that after he's gotten a HC job.
You really going to argue that if he wants a job as HC he can't get one in the NFL? There was a collectrive group on BBI that said he would not even get sniffed at for a job, you don't think if he wanted the Clev, TB, or Miami job they would not have jumped at that?
RE: Does anyone really fear a Coughlin coached team at this point?
lets face it, he could not consistently win with a franchise QB. Now all of a sudden he is going to win with Bradford. Funny.
I wonder, if the Giants had canned Reese as well (like they should have), would anyone care that TC was headed to the Eagles?
People panicked that Matt Dodge was going to haunt the Giants forever for letting him go and that letting Rhett Bomar go was going to be the biggest mistake of Reese's career.
Of course they're flipping out on the "threat" of Coughlin going elsewhere, even if, realistically, there's not much to actually fear. The sentiment and stage is obviously much, much higher.
So Coughlin perhaps going to the Eagles doesn't surprise at all. It's about money and it always will be. No real giant would go to the enemy unless they aren't as loyal as utopian blinded fans would like to believe.
He gets 6 mil. from the NYG if just sits home. It's apparent that he still wants to coach. So no, it's not about the money. Whether he gets another HC job remains to be seen, but considering his resume why wouldn't other teams not wish to sit down and talk?
was better at the end of a bunch of games we probably could have pulled out 10 wins and won the division.
But the coaching wasn't better so we won 6 games and Mngt had enough of it.
Reese isn't without blame but he had another life-line obviously.
Now lets find a hungry coach with a vision, align it with what Reese can do within FA & Draft, start winning more games than we lose, and stop worrying about Coughlin.
Yeah But... but... but... Coughlin is old and sucks now!
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
But,but Johnny; everyone knows that once you hit 70 your brains turn to mush, you get incontinent, and you forget a lifetime's wisdom. At least that's what all the wet-behind-the-ears schmucks here claim.
Perhaps that's because they never developed any smarts themselves?
Yeah But... but... but... Coughlin is old and sucks now!
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
But,but Johnny; everyone knows that once you hit 70 your brains turn to mush, you get incontinent, and you forget a lifetime's wisdom. At least that's what all the wet-behind-the-ears schmucks here claim.
Perhaps that's because they never developed any smarts themselves?
That's my basic feeling on the situation. I can't wrap my head around the folks that think Coughlin was somehow wronged in this situation.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
They have Eli and Beckham. A OL that has a lot of high draft picks invested over the past 3 years. And a lot of money to spend in FA. Add a WR (FA or draft) and OL in FA and the offense is probably done (I think Jennings is just fine and the running game is more on the OL than the backs).
The defense is a mess and can't be fixed in one year. But tighten the middle (DT, MLB and safety) and it will be good enough for this team to make the playoffs with anyone at HC.
Meanwhile Coughlin is gone and it's time to move on. I hope he goes to the Eagles and I hope he does well. Hell, if the Giants don't win a SB then I hope Coughlin does. He deserves it. Just as long as it's not at the expense of the Giants.
And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
RE: The team had basically 8-8 type talent. If the coaching
was better at the end of a bunch of games we probably could have pulled out 10 wins and won the division.
But the coaching wasn't better so we won 6 games and Mngt had enough of it.
Reese isn't without blame but he had another life-line obviously.
Now lets find a hungry coach with a vision, align it with what Reese can do within FA & Draft, start winning more games than we lose, and stop worrying about Coughlin.
8-8 based on what? Prior to July 4th I agree, after training camp i think your way off
I didnt take a poll Montana if that's what your looking for.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Wait. Jernigan, who is out of football, is your argument for TC not playing the "talent"? John Mara is now an astute personnel guy? Jerrell Jernigan?
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Coughlin clearly wants to coach. So we'll find out what the real experts think - people who actually know what they're talking about. If he is offered any HC position (whether he accepts or not), then that will tell us what people who actually get paid to make football decisions think. On the other hand, if he doesn't get any offer at all, that likewise tells me what those same experts think. We'll see.
RE: RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
What "NFL Experts"??? Ex coaches? Chris Snee? His ex players? You really think they'd say anything different?
How many coaches in the NFL would survive 3 straight losing seasons? He won a Super Bowl at 9-7 because Eli played at a MVP Level and Nicks, Cruz, and MM were out of their minds. Fewell's (Coughlin hire) shitty defense flipped a switch and played 4 Greta games. Never to been seen again. I'm not sure what Coughlin had to do with that.
It's not a lifetime appointment.
RE: RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Wait. Jernigan, who is out of football, is your argument for TC not playing the "talent"? John Mara is now an astute personnel guy? Jerrell Jernigan?
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
Can you fucking read? The comment was never about JJ. (As I clearly stated). It was a knock on his use of personnel.
There were better options than Nicks. Just like there were better options than Andre Williams. Just like James Jones was a better option.
But I don' expect you to understand. You clearly feel Tom Coughlin's stools are made of gold.
You're the at the extreme end of the Pro-Coughlin section. You sound ridiculous.
Anybody
But
Coughlin
It's always somebody else's fault. Coughlin owes a lot to Eli Manning, who's eaten a ton of shit because of Coughlin.
Tom Coughlin could shit his pants on the sideline and it would be John Mara's fault. Save the stupid fucking "Everyone is an idiot except Coughlin rant. You sound like an old fool loaded at the local VFW.
RE: RE: RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
What "NFL Experts"??? Ex coaches? Chris Snee? His ex players? You really think they'd say anything different?
How many coaches in the NFL would survive 3 straight losing seasons? He won a Super Bowl at 9-7 because Eli played at a MVP Level and Nicks, Cruz, and MM were out of their minds. Fewell's (Coughlin hire) shitty defense flipped a switch and played 4 Greta games. Never to been seen again. I'm not sure what Coughlin had to do with that.
It's not a lifetime appointment.
The ones looking for a new head coach. If none consider Coughlin - if none offer him a position, that tells us what the true experts think. And if they offer him a head coaching position, then likewise, the real experts - they people who actually do this for a living and know what they are doing, will have spoken by their actions. Either way - THOSE are the experts. You're not going to pretend to be their equal, are you?
That's my basic feeling on the situation. I can't wrap my head around the folks that think Coughlin was somehow wronged in this situation.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
It's mindless and childish.
The Tom Coughlin way won a championship four years ago. With a team that no one would argue was loaded woth talent, team had a negative point differential.
The crosstown Jets last title was pre-moon landing and the Eagles have never won. Perhaps that is why they want to talk to TC.
That's my basic feeling on the situation. I can't wrap my head around the folks that think Coughlin was somehow wronged in this situation.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
It's mindless and childish.
The Tom Coughlin way won a championship four years ago. With a team that no one would argue was loaded woth talent, team had a negative point differential.
The crosstown Jets last title was pre-moon landing and the Eagles have never won. Perhaps that is why they want to talk to TC.
I do not get anti TC stuff.
So the "Tom Coughlin Way" is to go 9-7, have the worst running game in the league, have your QB carry his team to the Super Bowl?
The "Tom Coughlin Way" is to have Tyree make a miracle catch?
I'm pointing out the fact the media killed Coughlin for years.
Now he's Vince Lombardi.
Many on BBI have been saying that Coughlin was never a good coach (and winning two super bowls was lucky and despite Coughlin); or that Coughlin used to be good but something happened and he no longer knows what he's doing.
The first opinion (that he never was a good coach) is idiocy and narcissistic to an extreme. Those expressing such garbage have to believe they know more football than the football people on the Giants that hired and kept Coughlin (and of course scoff at two super bowls).
As for those who believe that Coughlin used to know how to coach but something happened to him, well, once again, we'll find out from the true experts soon enough if that's true. Either he gets an offer to coach again or he doesn't. But that decision - to make an offer or not - will be made by the real experts. Everyone else is just playing fantasy GM - fun to express opinions but completely and totally meaningless when it comes to any real expertise.
That's my basic feeling on the situation. I can't wrap my head around the folks that think Coughlin was somehow wronged in this situation.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
It's mindless and childish.
The Tom Coughlin way won a championship four years ago. With a team that no one would argue was loaded woth talent, team had a negative point differential.
The crosstown Jets last title was pre-moon landing and the Eagles have never won. Perhaps that is why they want to talk to TC.
I do not get anti TC stuff.
So the "Tom Coughlin Way" is to go 9-7, have the worst running game in the league, have your QB carry his team to the Super Bowl?
The "Tom Coughlin Way" is to have Tyree make a miracle catch?
Super Bowl Champions, twice
RE: Not sure offering TC another coaching gig makes
coach my son's flag football team for a few years, and one season we won the championship, so...
Seriously, I was just saying coaches get recycled all the time and the ones doing the hiring have permanent jobs because they are the owners and are clearly not always experts. You know I what I mean?
RE: Well I don't want to speak for you Bill or BBI in general, but I did
coach my son's flag football team for a few years, and one season we won the championship, so...
Seriously, I was just saying coaches get recycled all the time and the ones doing the hiring have permanent jobs because they are the owners and are clearly not always experts. You know I what I mean?
Jimmy, but they are the experts. They are the only ones in the world actually making the decisions. Usually with plenty of well paid guidance and advice. Any way you want to cut it - they know more about football - and hiring football people - than all of BBI combined (times 1000).
We all have our opinions. And we should. Hell, what fun would it be to follow a team and not have feelings and thoughts about the "state of the team"? But at the end of the day, there isn't a single person here on BBI that knows what they are talking about. Or the inside information to make such judgments. So it's fun. It's why so many of us spend so much time typing and debating and living on BBI. But at the end of the day, opinions on BBI aren't something that anyone with any sense takes very seriously.
his stubbornness/loyalty to some players, and unwillingness to adapt to our personnel instead of having our personnel adapt to his system was a major source of frustration for me as a fan. If he's going to Philly with the only reason being sour grapes felt towards the Mara's and Reese, then fuck this guy. Some of you have outted yourselves as fans of Coughlin over being fans or the organization, you too can go follow his ass in Philly.
his stubbornness/loyalty to some players, and unwillingness to adapt to our personnel instead of having our personnel adapt to his system was a major source of frustration for me as a fan. If he's going to Philly with the only reason being sour grapes felt towards the Mara's and Reese, then fuck this guy. Some of you have outted yourselves as fans of Coughlin over being fans or the organization, you too can go follow his ass in Philly.
Why on earth would you suggest that if he takes a head coaching job with the Eagles it would be based on "the only reason being sour grapes felt towards the Mara's and Reese"? That's a pretty nasty thing to say with absolutely no evidence to suggest it.
The man still wants to coach. He has LOTS of family right here and almost surely doesn't want to move. You think he should turn down what makes him happy just to make YOU happy? Why should Coughlin subjugate his own happiness for yours? That's a pretty fucking narcissistic thought process you have.
Bill - I am not debating your views of BBI's "expertise"
Cool, because nobody gives a half of a decroded piece of crap that Greg from LI could not possibly care less what Tom fucking Coughlin is livid about.... lol
put 2 and 2 together. The way he walked out on Mara was absolutely all I needed to see. I don't care if Hanlon said they talked in the backroom, the PR guy's job is to minimize these embarrassing incidents.
I am just downplaying the infallible judgment you are freely granting those that have the power to fire/hire coaches.
Jimmy. I understand your point. I suppose it all comes down to what we mean by "experts". To me, it is pretty much a given that an "expert" is someone that does the job for a living. Makes the decisions for a living. That doesn't mean that experts are infallible. Nobody is infallible. Experts in every field make mistakes. But (and this is my point) they know better than everyone else.
And in particular they would know whether or not Coughlin has dementia or is unable to carry on a detailed football discussion during an interview. These people know better than any of us what they are doing.
put 2 and 2 together. The way he walked out on Mara was absolutely all I needed to see. I don't care if Hanlon said they talked in the backroom, the PR guy's job is to minimize these embarrassing incidents.
Sherlock Holmes would understand logic. Let's assume the following as facts:
A. Tom Coughlin was not happy about leaving the Giants.
B. The reason Coughlin was not happy is because he still intends to coach and is not ready to retire.
C. Coughlin interviews with the Eagles.
From a pure logic standpoint, if A and B are both true, there is zero basis to conclude that C can only be because Coughlin is upset with Mara.
It is much more plausible that Coughlin wants to coach near his 4 children and 14 grandchildren. That he doesn't want to be away from them when he doesn't have many years left to spend with them. That leaves the Eagles. Or Jets. Or NE.
And why do you care anyway? You wanted him gone. He sucks as a coach so isn't that GOOD for the Giants if he goes to the Eagles?
his stubbornness/loyalty to some players, and unwillingness to adapt to our personnel instead of having our personnel adapt to his system was a major source of frustration for me as a fan. If he's going to Philly with the only reason being sour grapes felt towards the Mara's and Reese, then fuck this guy. Some of you have outted yourselves as fans of Coughlin over being fans or the organization, you too can go follow his ass in Philly.
LOL - You wanted Coughlin gone; you got your wish. Not sure why people want continue to dump on him. It's clear he wanted to continue to coach. Philly job is open, why shouldn't he check it? Giants won two SB during his tenure, he owes fans nothing. Personnaly, I wish him well. If he gets the Eagle job, I'd find that weird. Hope he finds something that interests him outside of the NFCE
I'm just pretty damn sure he's doing this to stick it to us, out of spite. With that said, if he coaches in Philly, I hope it's a dumpster fire that makes him regret it.
RE: Actually he looks pretty good in that uniform.
I'm just pretty damn sure he's doing this to stick it to us, out of spite...
That's ridiculous. First of all, using the word "us" is silly. Tom Coughlin doesn't know you and I'm pretty sure isn't as emotional about you as you are about him.
Secondly, why you are so emotional about this? If he goes to the Eagles, it will make Giant/Eagle games more fun than ever before.
And you have zero - absolutely zero - basis to say such a thing about Coughlin. For you to think such a thing about the man probably reveals more about you than it does about Coughlin.
I'm entitled to formulating my own opinion on the matter. Reading the tea leaves, it's not a stretch at all to say he's doing this just to spite the organization. For all of those who say one of the best traits about Coughlin is that he's not like Parcells, he actually is closer to that then some of you would believe. Both are extremely petty and stubborn.
were pretty adamant that no team could possibly be interested. Wrong.
We can discuss that after he's gotten a HC job.
You really going to argue that if he wants a job as HC he can't get one in the NFL? There was a collectrive group on BBI that said he would not even get sniffed at for a job, you don't think if he wanted the Clev, TB, or Miami job they would not have jumped at that?
I didn't say any of those things. I wouldn't be surprised it someone hired him. There might be situations where he would work out well. I don't think he should have been kept here. All I'm saying is that there is a big difference between "showing interest" and actually hiring someone.
RE: RE: Actually he looks pretty good in that uniform.
Would love to see him in Philly. Would make Giants/Eagles games even more special than they already are.
So would I - it'd be nice to beat Philly twice a year for a change.
Well, I understand you are saying that for different reasons than me, but I want them the Giants to shut out the entire division. And beating the Eagles with Coughlin at the helm would be pretty special. You just know that those games would be very tense. It would be great exciting football. As a fan, that's what I want. Give me good rivalries. Give me games that cause buzz and talk and intensity. It would be great stuff.
RE: RE: Bill - I am not debating your views of BBI's
And in particular they would know whether or not Coughlin has dementia or is unable to carry on a detailed football discussion during an interview. These people know better than any of us what they are doing.
I kind of chuckled at this...i would hope your definition of expert was a higher standard than just this!
Hell, if not, you and I would do just fine picking the next coach since i do this type of assessment on BBI each week...
And in particular they would know whether or not Coughlin has dementia or is unable to carry on a detailed football discussion during an interview. These people know better than any of us what they are doing.
I kind of chuckled at this...i would hope your definition of expert was a higher standard than just this!
Hell, if not, you and I would do just fine picking the next coach since i do this type of assessment on BBI each week...
Good one. Actually made me laugh out loud and wake my grandson. lol
okay, right now, coughlin will go down as a hero in giantsland, but he would throw lots of that away if he turns around and coaches the eagles. giant fans would view this as a traitorist. we dont care if we thought it was time to go. we dont care if he wants to coach more, especially at age 69. we wouldnt mind if he went to the afc [not named the jets] or some other nfc team that we dont have a competitive history. but to go to the eagles whom we have had a recent history of heartbreak more than any other team would be very poorly received. so if coughlin wants to throw 12 years of good will away to coach a few more years at the eagles, that is his short-cited decision. just don't expect giant fans to understand or give approval. expect a bit of the tiki affect to follow.
RE: RE: RE: Bill - I am not debating your views of BBI's
... i do this type of assessment on BBI each week...
Ahh, shit. So, just for the record, I'm still actively employed and do my best to keep the brain reasonably active (although my daughters seem to question at times whether that strategy is working very well).
So Coughlin perhaps going to the Eagles doesn't surprise at all. It's about money and it always will be. No real giant would go to the enemy unless they aren't as loyal as utopian blinded fans would like to believe.
No way is it about money for TC. If he goes to the Eagles which is something I suspect he would hate to do because of his love for the Giants but that just demonstrates how much the man wants to coach. He certainly doesn't need the money and could work in the FO of many teams or be a commentator for sure. The guy just wants to coach and I respect him for that. In fact, I respect Tom so much I'll have to route for the Eagles though I'll still be a Giants fan.
RE: I didnt take a poll Montana if that's what your looking for.
But imo the team has had about 8-8 type talent for the last few years.
And by the way how am I way off if I was within 2 games of being correct?
Oh I know, I was off two games because our coaches acted like morons in the losses to Dallas and the Jets.
Virtually 90% of this board had us between 6-10 wins prior to July 4th. That means with a perfectly healthy team BBI had us at an avg of 8 wins. Then we proceed to lose our best O and D lineman, our 2nd best receiver, 3 of our FS, starting and backup TE's, a makeshift O-line for most of the year, starting CB for a few games, Best LB for the most of the season, etc...etc..
And people bitch even though we were relevant for up to the 15th week
RE: RE: RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Wait. Jernigan, who is out of football, is your argument for TC not playing the "talent"? John Mara is now an astute personnel guy? Jerrell Jernigan?
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
Can you fucking read? The comment was never about JJ. (As I clearly stated). It was a knock on his use of personnel.
There were better options than Nicks. Just like there were better options than Andre Williams. Just like James Jones was a better option.
But I don' expect you to understand. You clearly feel Tom Coughlin's stools are made of gold.
You're the at the extreme end of the Pro-Coughlin section. You sound ridiculous.
Anybody
But
Coughlin
It's always somebody else's fault. Coughlin owes a lot to Eli Manning, who's eaten a ton of shit because of Coughlin.
Tom Coughlin could shit his pants on the sideline and it would be John Mara's fault. Save the stupid fucking "Everyone is an idiot except Coughlin rant. You sound like an old fool loaded at the local VFW.
I don't blame you for walking back that silly statement. Using two guys who are out of the league and a rookie as examples of "not utilizing the talent" was pretty stupid.
I'm just pretty damn sure he's doing this to stick it to us, out of spite...
That's ridiculous. First of all, using the word "us" is silly. Tom Coughlin doesn't know you and I'm pretty sure isn't as emotional about you as you are about him.
Secondly, why you are so emotional about this? If he goes to the Eagles, it will make Giant/Eagle games more fun than ever before.
And you have zero - absolutely zero - basis to say such a thing about Coughlin. For you to think such a thing about the man probably reveals more about you than it does about Coughlin.
Good call. When I read David's post I thought the same thing. REDICULOUS. It's purely a business decision for Tom and only because he wants to coach so much. You can't blame the guy for that. I'll bet he's not too fond of going to another team in our division but he'd be stupid to let that prevent him from doing what he loves to do.
I hope he gets the job if he wants it.
RE: RE: RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
What "NFL Experts"??? Ex coaches? Chris Snee? His ex players? You really think they'd say anything different?
How many coaches in the NFL would survive 3 straight losing seasons? He won a Super Bowl at 9-7 because Eli played at a MVP Level and Nicks, Cruz, and MM were out of their minds. Fewell's (Coughlin hire) shitty defense flipped a switch and played 4 Greta games. Never to been seen again. I'm not sure what Coughlin had to do with that.
It's not a lifetime appointment.
No one said it is so spare everyone your constant refrain of "lifetime appt" its a strawman argument and really silly to begin with. There was not one analyst who felt that this was a bad coaching job this season. They all commented that they felt the job he did with the talent at hand was admirable at the least.
RE: dumb ass decision for coughlin to coach eagles
okay, right now, coughlin will go down as a hero in giantsland, but he would throw lots of that away if he turns around and coaches the eagles. giant fans would view this as a traitorist. we dont care if we thought it was time to go. we dont care if he wants to coach more, especially at age 69. we wouldnt mind if he went to the afc [not named the jets] or some other nfc team that we dont have a competitive history. but to go to the eagles whom we have had a recent history of heartbreak more than any other team would be very poorly received. so if coughlin wants to throw 12 years of good will away to coach a few more years at the eagles, that is his short-cited decision. just don't expect giant fans to understand or give approval. expect a bit of the tiki affect to follow.
Yea. He should give up his happiness just so you won't be upset. Could you possibly be more self centered?
his stubbornness/loyalty to some players, and unwillingness to adapt to our personnel instead of having our personnel adapt to his system was a major source of frustration for me as a fan. If he's going to Philly with the only reason being sour grapes felt towards the Mara's and Reese, then fuck this guy. Some of you have outted yourselves as fans of Coughlin over being fans or the organization, you too can go follow his ass in Philly.
The subject of Coughlin seems to bring out a lot of negativity from you.
but I honestly thought he should have been fired a couple years ago. It's an absolute joke how posters look back with completely revised stories about the Coughlin era in general. After 2008, we have been wildly inconsistent.
but I honestly thought he should have been fired a couple years ago. It's an absolute joke how posters look back with completely revised stories about the Coughlin era in general. After 2008, we have been wildly inconsistent.
But imo the team has had about 8-8 type talent for the last few years.
And by the way how am I way off if I was within 2 games of being correct?
Oh I know, I was off two games because our coaches acted like morons in the losses to Dallas and the Jets.
Virtually 90% of this board had us between 6-10 wins prior to July 4th. That means with a perfectly healthy team BBI had us at an avg of 8 wins. Then we proceed to lose our best O and D lineman, our 2nd best receiver, 3 of our FS, starting and backup TE's, a makeshift O-line for most of the year, starting CB for a few games, Best LB for the most of the season, etc...etc..
And people bitch even though we were relevant for up to the 15th week
What a silly retort.
More than half the NFL teams fall between 6-10 wins every year, so what the hell do you expect this board to say?
And if anybody actually picks anything less than a 10 win record with a perfectly healthy team, I would call them a moron. A perfectly healthy team better win 10 games. You should look at the top 40 or so players on the roster when you predict because they are all going to play. Especially when your the Giants and lead the league in injuries every year.
And it was nice to be relevant up until week 15. Thank God we play in the NFC East huh?
is because over the years on this site, the TC hardcore supporters would have you believe that TC would never even entertain the notion of coaching another NFC East team like Parcells did. TC would never stoop to the level of Parcells...right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: And Coughlin's use of talent was a bigger issue than lack of it.
Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Wait. Jernigan, who is out of football, is your argument for TC not playing the "talent"? John Mara is now an astute personnel guy? Jerrell Jernigan?
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
Can you fucking read? The comment was never about JJ. (As I clearly stated). It was a knock on his use of personnel.
There were better options than Nicks. Just like there were better options than Andre Williams. Just like James Jones was a better option.
But I don' expect you to understand. You clearly feel Tom Coughlin's stools are made of gold.
You're the at the extreme end of the Pro-Coughlin section. You sound ridiculous.
Anybody
But
Coughlin
It's always somebody else's fault. Coughlin owes a lot to Eli Manning, who's eaten a ton of shit because of Coughlin.
Tom Coughlin could shit his pants on the sideline and it would be John Mara's fault. Save the stupid fucking "Everyone is an idiot except Coughlin rant. You sound like an old fool loaded at the local VFW.
I don't blame you for walking back that silly statement. Using two guys who are out of the league and a rookie as examples of "not utilizing the talent" was pretty stupid.
You're such a clown.
RE: RE: RE: I didnt take a poll Montana if that's what your looking for.
But imo the team has had about 8-8 type talent for the last few years.
And by the way how am I way off if I was within 2 games of being correct?
Oh I know, I was off two games because our coaches acted like morons in the losses to Dallas and the Jets.
Virtually 90% of this board had us between 6-10 wins prior to July 4th. That means with a perfectly healthy team BBI had us at an avg of 8 wins. Then we proceed to lose our best O and D lineman, our 2nd best receiver, 3 of our FS, starting and backup TE's, a makeshift O-line for most of the year, starting CB for a few games, Best LB for the most of the season, etc...etc..
And people bitch even though we were relevant for up to the 15th week
What a silly retort.
More than half the NFL teams fall between 6-10 wins every year, so what the hell do you expect this board to say?
And if anybody actually picks anything less than a 10 win record with a perfectly healthy team, I would call them a moron. A perfectly healthy team better win 10 games. You should look at the top 40 or so players on the roster when you predict because they are all going to play. Especially when your the Giants and lead the league in injuries every year.
And it was nice to be relevant up until week 15. Thank God we play in the NFC East huh?
Your clueless, you can't even answer the first question i asked without some absurd response about a poll. It was a simple question regarding your claim of 8-8 and all you did was dance around it because you know you had us at 8-8 PRIOR to being decimated by injuries. Because that did not fit your whine, you decided to try to blow smoke up everyone's ass.
Its real easy Ace, if you had this team at 8-8 prior to July 4th, you should be able to understand how good the coaching actually was given the talent on the field. Let me illustrate it for you again with a another simple question that hopefully you want try to spin around not answering it:
Name me one team we lost to that had less talent on the field then we did this year?
is because over the years on this site, the TC hardcore supporters would have you believe that TC would never even entertain the notion of coaching another NFC East team like Parcells did. TC would never stoop to the level of Parcells...right?
I have never seen that discussed and have never been part of any such discussion. However it is a stupid conversation. TC was relieved of his job. He has a right to his happiness. If the Giants don't want him to coach in Philadelphia, then have him coach the Giants. Don't want him to coach the Giants? Then the man is entitled to work and do what he loves.
He is entitled to his happiness. For you to think he should give up a job opportunity because that would make YOU happy is really quite an astounding thought process on your part. And incredibly self centered and selfish.
Its real easy Ace, if you had this team at 8-8 prior to July 4th, you should be able to understand how good the coaching actually was given the talent on the field. Let me illustrate it for you again with a another simple question that hopefully you want try to spin around not answering it:
Name me one team we lost to that had less talent on the field then we did this year?
Redskins, New Orleans, Atlanta off the top of my head. And not exactly comfortable with last second wins versus less talented San Fran and Dallas (second game).
But the real answer is yes I still looked at the team as around 8-8
quality at the beginning of the season. And your list of decimating injuries occurred throughout the season, not before it.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
quality at the beginning of the season. And your list of decimating injuries occurred throughout the season, not before it.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Another thing to bear in mind was expecting 8-8 with the NFCE maintaining pace from last season.
When Romo went down early and the Eagles went into the shitter, that alone should have somewhat compensated for our injuries. Instead, swept by the Eagles again and needed a pick-6 (yeah, that fucking defense again) to beat the Cassel led Cowboys.
No way anyone can look at this season, with the bad decisions, the OBJ mess, etc. - and conclude the coaches did a good job. The best you can do is caveat their poor performance with a note about injuries and talent.
Agree JCN. And the weekend that I still cannot get over
is coming out like a high school football team against the Redskins after Thanksgiving. We come out flat as 10 year school girl, units making mistakes all over the field. No points until 4th quarter.
Biggest game of the year by far and no one is ready to play.
After a bye week no less...sound familiar?
Can't have it...that was the end of the Coughlin era in my view.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I didnt take a poll Montana if that's what your looking for.
Its real easy Ace, if you had this team at 8-8 prior to July 4th, you should be able to understand how good the coaching actually was given the talent on the field. Let me illustrate it for you again with a another simple question that hopefully you want try to spin around not answering it:
Name me one team we lost to that had less talent on the field then we did this year?
Redskins, New Orleans, Atlanta off the top of my head. And not exactly comfortable with last second wins versus less talented San Fran and Dallas (second game).
Naming those teams as having less talent then us, tells me all i need to know about your football knowledge. I am wasting my time with someone who does not have a clue
RE: But the real answer is yes I still looked at the team as around 8-8
quality at the beginning of the season. And your list of decimating injuries occurred throughout the season, not before it.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Holy shit, we lost our best O and D lineman and 2nd best receiver for the season PRIOR to the start of the season. Do you even watch the games?
RE: RE: But the real answer is yes I still looked at the team as around 8-8
quality at the beginning of the season. And your list of decimating injuries occurred throughout the season, not before it.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Holy shit, we lost our best O and D lineman and 2nd best receiver for the season PRIOR to the start of the season. Do you even watch the games?
What's more amazing is I was only two games off. I guess that Beatty, JPP and Cruz aren't really that much more valuable than the next guy up.
Ah..if only TC had told Eli what to do on the goal line versus Dallas and kicked the FG versus the Jets. I would have been right on. Not bad for not having a clue...
RE: RE: RE: But the real answer is yes I still looked at the team as around 8-8
quality at the beginning of the season. And your list of decimating injuries occurred throughout the season, not before it.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Holy shit, we lost our best O and D lineman and 2nd best receiver for the season PRIOR to the start of the season. Do you even watch the games?
What's more amazing is I was only two games off. I guess that Beatty, JPP and Cruz aren't really that much more valuable than the next guy up.
Ah..if only TC had told Eli what to do on the goal line versus Dallas and kicked the FG versus the Jets. I would have been right on. Not bad for not having a clue...
See your still failing completely to get it. We were only two off because of the job that staff did in spite of all the backbreaking injuries
don't get so emotional and protective of TC and his family.
I think the format here is that people are supposed to offer opinions.
The issues: HC position will require a minimum commitment of about 5 years. There are man factors related to success of HC, primarily personnel. If he struggles down there or it takes longer than expected to make a run, could damage any chances he has at making it to HOF. To my mind, seems like an awful big commitment to make re: time and energy to make at this stage in life.
2) They were just being run by a college coach. Coughlin is a pro's pro.
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
Can you imagine Sam Bradford running Coughlin/Gilbride offense?
He'd throw 30 ints.
Quote:
Ugh.
I think we might actually have a chance to beat them for a change.
You have been consistent for 12 years now..Kudos..
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
Good, I'm glad Coughlin can share the emotions I had when I paid a healthy sum of money to watch the Giants shit the bed against the Matt Moore led Carolina Panthers in the last game at Giants Stadium.
Everything on the line, closing out the old stadium, clear talent advantage, team shit the bed.
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What if the Giants hire a HC who wants his own coordinators and we see both McAdoo and Spags end up with Coughlin in Philly?
Quote:
Sorry to say, but it's over.
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What if the Giants hire a HC who wants his own coordinators and we see both McAdoo and Spags end up with Coughlin in Philly?
I highly doubt Coughlin brings McAdoo with him. And given his history hiring coordinators......go for it.
What would that be?
Not saying anyone hires him. But apparently it is being reported that owners of various teams are interested in him. Maybe you should find out what teams they are and maybe they will pay you a consulting fee for your expert insights because I'm sure they'd recognize you know so much more than they do.
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
Love him all you want. He was living on borrowed time with the Giants. He had too many coaching mistakes this season. Talent or not, he made some pretty bad decisions that cost games he normally wins. On top of that, needing to have him get rid of ineffective DCs and assistants is telling.
We'll never really know how many games he won on his sheer coaching talent or how many he lost because of coaching failures. But it was pretty obvious this season was not one of his best.
I can understand him be pissed because Reese was retained, but that had nothing to do with his own situation.
Quote:
Sorry to say, but it's over.
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What if the Giants hire a HC who wants his own coordinators and we see both McAdoo and Spags end up with Coughlin in Philly?
Rejoice? At least with Spags. Beckham may score 5 touchdowns against a Spags led Eagles defense.
And there's no way that he'd coach the Eagles. That whole situation is just pot stirring from Philadelphia.
Many of the current candidates can hold a candle to Coughlin's resume
Front office positions make much more sense, but I would caution Giants fans not to get their hopes up. Imagine how hard it would be for Coach Coughlin to come back in an administrative position and watch someone else coach his guys. I'm not saying he won't have a job with the Giants, some day, but I would be surprised if it was this year.
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In comment 12751958 drkenneth said:
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Sorry to say, but it's over.
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What if the Giants hire a HC who wants his own coordinators and we see both McAdoo and Spags end up with Coughlin in Philly?
I highly doubt Coughlin brings McAdoo with him. And given his history hiring coordinators......go for it.
& I thought the Giants made the right decision in getting rid of him.
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In comment 12751958 drkenneth said:
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Sorry to say, but it's over.
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What if the Giants hire a HC who wants his own coordinators and we see both McAdoo and Spags end up with Coughlin in Philly?
Rejoice? At least with Spags. Beckham may score 5 touchdowns against a Spags led Eagles defense.
More like Philly might score 50 against a talentless Giants defense and Spags might knock Eli out.
It's sad how disrespected some Giants fans perceive Spags considering how pathetic the talent is.
*sarcasm*
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In comment 12751970 Giants2012 said:
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In comment 12751958 drkenneth said:
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Sorry to say, but it's over.
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
What if the Giants hire a HC who wants his own coordinators and we see both McAdoo and Spags end up with Coughlin in Philly?
Rejoice? At least with Spags. Beckham may score 5 touchdowns against a Spags led Eagles defense.
More like Philly might score 50 against a talentless Giants defense and Spags might knock Eli out.
It's sad how disrespected some Giants fans perceive Spags considering how pathetic the talent is.
He had bottom of the barrel defense with 3 different teams. This guy is breaking his own piss poor defensive records with each stop he makes. When it happens to you 3 times, with 3 different franchises how long do you get to blame the talent for? He's awful and lucky he's not out of the league.
We can discuss that after he's gotten a HC job.
Or are you saying no one is entitled to question a coach or GM because he is not a so called expert?
Well, Monday will be a week. I was told by some that he would have another coaching gig in a week.
The reality is however, that he never really built a sustainable program here. Our November/December record was never great under TC. We were not a consistent team under TC. He made some pretty awful choices of DCs and seemed to favor some players that weren't great.
What he did do was take advantage of two playoff runs to win two improbable SuperBowl victories over favored NE teams. For that I will always hold him in high regard. But he hasn't had a consistent record of excellence. When he has had players that fit his system of playing football he has achieved great success. But he doesn't have the flexibility of mind to adapt to his talent (or lack thereof).
I wish him good luck but to worry that he may coach somewhere else is kind of silly, and pointless.
Or are you saying no one is entitled to question a coach or GM because he is not a so called expert?
Of course not. That's why we're here. We all do it. It's fun. But let's not pretend to believe that we actually know what we're talking about. Some people here actually take themselves seriously - as though they believe they're actually qualified to be a HC or GM or owner. It's really funny.
It's sad how disrespected some Giants fans perceive Spags considering how pathetic the talent is.
He had bottom of the barrel defense with 3 different teams. This guy is breaking his own piss poor defensive records with each stop he makes. When it happens to you 3 times, with 3 different franchises how long do you get to blame the talent for? He's awful and lucky he's not out of the league.
Name the talent on the defenses he coached and how many others failed with the same talent. The Saints have been a disgrace defensively and the Rams still don't have a QB.
Jeff Fisher can't even win in St Louis and not a fan on earth can name a coach who could succeed with this Giants defense.
The fickle love to pile on and blame.
I wonder, if the Giants had canned Reese as well (like they should have), would anyone care that TC was headed to the Eagles?
The reality is however, that he never really built a sustainable program here. Our November/December record was never great under TC. We were not a consistent team under TC. He made some pretty awful choices of DCs and seemed to favor some players that weren't great.
What he did do was take advantage of two playoff runs to win two improbable SuperBowl victories over favored NE teams. For that I will always hold him in high regard. But he hasn't had a consistent record of excellence. When he has had players that fit his system of playing football he has achieved great success. But he doesn't have the flexibility of mind to adapt to his talent (or lack thereof).
I wish him good luck but to worry that he may coach somewhere else is kind of silly, and pointless.
Well Said
I wonder, if the Giants had canned Reese as well (like they should have), would anyone care that TC was headed to the Eagles?
Agree.
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Or are you saying no one is entitled to question a coach or GM because he is not a so called expert?
Of course not. That's why we're here. We all do it. It's fun. But let's not pretend to believe that we actually know what we're talking about. Some people here actually take themselves seriously - as though they believe they're actually qualified to be a HC or GM or owner. It's really funny.
+1,000
Can you imagine Sam Bradford running Coughlin/Gilbride offense?
He'd throw 30 ints.
Bradford scored 36 on the wonderlics. Not quite Eli/Romo/Fitzgerald territory, but a lot better than Peyton! or most other NFL QBs.
Bradford is plenty smart to run TC/KG offense. The Eagkes' OL is another story...
Our team needs to re-make a desperate, miserable defense from scratch. A Draft pick would help.
And that's surprising considering how they've owned them. It's legit to question if Lurie is just trolling
you mean the most trusted name in sports talk?
To accomplish what?
Seems those who thought TC was old or was a mediocre coach (which boggles the mind) were of base.
Now I do not think he will get the Eagle job, but if somehow he did led them onto the field next year. That would be tough to take.
Time to move on.
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In
It's sad how disrespected some Giants fans perceive Spags considering how pathetic the talent is.
He had bottom of the barrel defense with 3 different teams. This guy is breaking his own piss poor defensive records with each stop he makes. When it happens to you 3 times, with 3 different franchises how long do you get to blame the talent for? He's awful and lucky he's not out of the league.
Name the talent on the defenses he coached and how many others failed with the same talent. The Saints have been a disgrace defensively and the Rams still don't have a QB.
Jeff Fisher can't even win in St Louis and not a fan on earth can name a coach who could succeed with this Giants defense.
The fickle love to pile on and blame.
He was the head coach of the Rams. If they had no talent on defense in St. Louis would you have me believe he had no say in acquiring that talent? And the Rams not having a QB is irrelevant. He's the DC of the Giants. I don't care about whether or not he had a QB as Rams HC. It has nothing to do with his ability to be a DC. Without Harbaugh pulling him out of the ditch and making him a position coach he'd be out of the league. I don't remember some parade of people banging down his door desperate to add him to their coaching staff after he'd be fired...again.
From the Eagles perspective, it makes sense. They allowed Kelly to rebuild the roster. But, they didn't like his locker room presence and coaching. If they believe their roster is ready to take a big step forward, then why wouldn't they want a guy like Coughlin to direct it?
I'm not sure, off the top of my head, where else he makes sense.
Coughlin has four children and 11 grandchildren who all live on the East Coast. He still wants to coach. The Giants didn't want him anymore. But some how he is being "disloyal" if he accepts an offer from the Eagles to do what he loves and be near his children and grandchildren? Tom Coughlin should give up his life and dreams to make YOU happy? Holy shit.
Firing Reese and keeping TC would've addressed the root problem.
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were pretty adamant that no team could possibly be interested. Wrong.
We can discuss that after he's gotten a HC job.
You really going to argue that if he wants a job as HC he can't get one in the NFL? There was a collectrive group on BBI that said he would not even get sniffed at for a job, you don't think if he wanted the Clev, TB, or Miami job they would not have jumped at that?
What does he bring to the table as HC at this point?
Honest question.
Uh yeah I do...one with talent though...
I wonder, if the Giants had canned Reese as well (like they should have), would anyone care that TC was headed to the Eagles?
People panicked that Matt Dodge was going to haunt the Giants forever for letting him go and that letting Rhett Bomar go was going to be the biggest mistake of Reese's career.
Of course they're flipping out on the "threat" of Coughlin going elsewhere, even if, realistically, there's not much to actually fear. The sentiment and stage is obviously much, much higher.
He gets 6 mil. from the NYG if just sits home. It's apparent that he still wants to coach. So no, it's not about the money. Whether he gets another HC job remains to be seen, but considering his resume why wouldn't other teams not wish to sit down and talk?
But the coaching wasn't better so we won 6 games and Mngt had enough of it.
Reese isn't without blame but he had another life-line obviously.
Now lets find a hungry coach with a vision, align it with what Reese can do within FA & Draft, start winning more games than we lose, and stop worrying about Coughlin.
Why the anger at Coughlin? He's gone. What did he do you to provoke such an emotional reaction?
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
But,but Johnny; everyone knows that once you hit 70 your brains turn to mush, you get incontinent, and you forget a lifetime's wisdom. At least that's what all the wet-behind-the-ears schmucks here claim.
Perhaps that's because they never developed any smarts themselves?
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Yeah But... but... but... Coughlin is old and sucks now!
- Group of dopey BBI posters
I have actually heard (2nd hand of course) from someone friendly with the Snees that Coughlin is LIVID, absolutely and COMPLETELY PISSED that the Giants wanted him gone, especially with the (lack of) talent they had and Reese sticking around. So this doesn't surprise me at all.
But,but Johnny; everyone knows that once you hit 70 your brains turn to mush, you get incontinent, and you forget a lifetime's wisdom. At least that's what all the wet-behind-the-ears schmucks here claim.
Perhaps that's because they never developed any smarts themselves?
70? Try 30.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
It's mindless and childish.
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were pretty adamant that no team could possibly be interested. Wrong.
We can discuss that after he's gotten a HC job.
Teams can still be interested and yet not pull the trigger, you know.
The defense is a mess and can't be fixed in one year. But tighten the middle (DT, MLB and safety) and it will be good enough for this team to make the playoffs with anyone at HC.
Meanwhile Coughlin is gone and it's time to move on. I hope he goes to the Eagles and I hope he does well. Hell, if the Giants don't win a SB then I hope Coughlin does. He deserves it. Just as long as it's not at the expense of the Giants.
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
But the coaching wasn't better so we won 6 games and Mngt had enough of it.
Reese isn't without blame but he had another life-line obviously.
Now lets find a hungry coach with a vision, align it with what Reese can do within FA & Draft, start winning more games than we lose, and stop worrying about Coughlin.
And by the way how am I way off if I was within 2 games of being correct?
Oh I know, I was off two games because our coaches acted like morons in the losses to Dallas and the Jets.
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Coughlin clearly wants to coach. So we'll find out what the real experts think - people who actually know what they're talking about. If he is offered any HC position (whether he accepts or not), then that will tell us what people who actually get paid to make football decisions think. On the other hand, if he doesn't get any offer at all, that likewise tells me what those same experts think. We'll see.
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Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
What "NFL Experts"??? Ex coaches? Chris Snee? His ex players? You really think they'd say anything different?
How many coaches in the NFL would survive 3 straight losing seasons? He won a Super Bowl at 9-7 because Eli played at a MVP Level and Nicks, Cruz, and MM were out of their minds. Fewell's (Coughlin hire) shitty defense flipped a switch and played 4 Greta games. Never to been seen again. I'm not sure what Coughlin had to do with that.
It's not a lifetime appointment.
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Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Wait. Jernigan, who is out of football, is your argument for TC not playing the "talent"? John Mara is now an astute personnel guy? Jerrell Jernigan?
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
Can you fucking read? The comment was never about JJ. (As I clearly stated). It was a knock on his use of personnel.
There were better options than Nicks. Just like there were better options than Andre Williams. Just like James Jones was a better option.
But I don' expect you to understand. You clearly feel Tom Coughlin's stools are made of gold.
You're the at the extreme end of the Pro-Coughlin section. You sound ridiculous.
Anybody
But
Coughlin
It's always somebody else's fault. Coughlin owes a lot to Eli Manning, who's eaten a ton of shit because of Coughlin.
Tom Coughlin could shit his pants on the sideline and it would be John Mara's fault. Save the stupid fucking "Everyone is an idiot except Coughlin rant. You sound like an old fool loaded at the local VFW.
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In comment 12752347 drkenneth said:
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Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
What "NFL Experts"??? Ex coaches? Chris Snee? His ex players? You really think they'd say anything different?
How many coaches in the NFL would survive 3 straight losing seasons? He won a Super Bowl at 9-7 because Eli played at a MVP Level and Nicks, Cruz, and MM were out of their minds. Fewell's (Coughlin hire) shitty defense flipped a switch and played 4 Greta games. Never to been seen again. I'm not sure what Coughlin had to do with that.
It's not a lifetime appointment.
The ones looking for a new head coach. If none consider Coughlin - if none offer him a position, that tells us what the true experts think. And if they offer him a head coaching position, then likewise, the real experts - they people who actually do this for a living and know what they are doing, will have spoken by their actions. Either way - THOSE are the experts. You're not going to pretend to be their equal, are you?
Now he's Vince Lombardi.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
It's mindless and childish.
The Tom Coughlin way won a championship four years ago. With a team that no one would argue was loaded woth talent, team had a negative point differential.
The crosstown Jets last title was pre-moon landing and the Eagles have never won. Perhaps that is why they want to talk to TC.
I do not get anti TC stuff.
Does firing/resigning TC make Giant ownership non-experts?
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That's my basic feeling on the situation. I can't wrap my head around the folks that think Coughlin was somehow wronged in this situation.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
It's mindless and childish.
The Tom Coughlin way won a championship four years ago. With a team that no one would argue was loaded woth talent, team had a negative point differential.
The crosstown Jets last title was pre-moon landing and the Eagles have never won. Perhaps that is why they want to talk to TC.
I do not get anti TC stuff.
So the "Tom Coughlin Way" is to go 9-7, have the worst running game in the league, have your QB carry his team to the Super Bowl?
The "Tom Coughlin Way" is to have Tyree make a miracle catch?
Now he's Vince Lombardi.
Many on BBI have been saying that Coughlin was never a good coach (and winning two super bowls was lucky and despite Coughlin); or that Coughlin used to be good but something happened and he no longer knows what he's doing.
The first opinion (that he never was a good coach) is idiocy and narcissistic to an extreme. Those expressing such garbage have to believe they know more football than the football people on the Giants that hired and kept Coughlin (and of course scoff at two super bowls).
As for those who believe that Coughlin used to know how to coach but something happened to him, well, once again, we'll find out from the true experts soon enough if that's true. Either he gets an offer to coach again or he doesn't. But that decision - to make an offer or not - will be made by the real experts. Everyone else is just playing fantasy GM - fun to express opinions but completely and totally meaningless when it comes to any real expertise.
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In comment 12752314 drkenneth said:
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That's my basic feeling on the situation. I can't wrap my head around the folks that think Coughlin was somehow wronged in this situation.
Maras were very patient with Coughlin. I think we can all safely assume TC had influence into personnel, and draft.
The fact is Coughlin's teams have been consistently inconnsist for 12 years, sans 2008 when he essentially had his perfect team.
I don't think Tom Coughlin knows how to win unless he plays "The Tom Coughlin" way, and that's not realistic in today's NFL. He's struggled unless he has his power running game and deep passing, unnecessarily complex, QB unfriendly system. That's been my issue all along.
The narrative that Coughlin was unjustly fired/pushed out VS Reese is a studdering prick "empty suit" is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this site.
It's mindless and childish.
The Tom Coughlin way won a championship four years ago. With a team that no one would argue was loaded woth talent, team had a negative point differential.
The crosstown Jets last title was pre-moon landing and the Eagles have never won. Perhaps that is why they want to talk to TC.
I do not get anti TC stuff.
So the "Tom Coughlin Way" is to go 9-7, have the worst running game in the league, have your QB carry his team to the Super Bowl?
The "Tom Coughlin Way" is to have Tyree make a miracle catch?
Super Bowl Champions, twice
Does firing/resigning TC make Giant ownership non-experts?
No Jimmy. The experts are you and me and the others here on BBI. The people who actually get paid and do it for a living don't know jack shit.
Seriously, I was just saying coaches get recycled all the time and the ones doing the hiring have permanent jobs because they are the owners and are clearly not always experts. You know I what I mean?
Seriously, I was just saying coaches get recycled all the time and the ones doing the hiring have permanent jobs because they are the owners and are clearly not always experts. You know I what I mean?
Jimmy, but they are the experts. They are the only ones in the world actually making the decisions. Usually with plenty of well paid guidance and advice. Any way you want to cut it - they know more about football - and hiring football people - than all of BBI combined (times 1000).
We all have our opinions. And we should. Hell, what fun would it be to follow a team and not have feelings and thoughts about the "state of the team"? But at the end of the day, there isn't a single person here on BBI that knows what they are talking about. Or the inside information to make such judgments. So it's fun. It's why so many of us spend so much time typing and debating and living on BBI. But at the end of the day, opinions on BBI aren't something that anyone with any sense takes very seriously.
Why on earth would you suggest that if he takes a head coaching job with the Eagles it would be based on "the only reason being sour grapes felt towards the Mara's and Reese"? That's a pretty nasty thing to say with absolutely no evidence to suggest it.
The man still wants to coach. He has LOTS of family right here and almost surely doesn't want to move. You think he should turn down what makes him happy just to make YOU happy? Why should Coughlin subjugate his own happiness for yours? That's a pretty fucking narcissistic thought process you have.
Cool, because nobody gives a half of a decroded piece of crap that Greg from LI could not possibly care less what Tom fucking Coughlin is livid about.... lol
Jimmy. I understand your point. I suppose it all comes down to what we mean by "experts". To me, it is pretty much a given that an "expert" is someone that does the job for a living. Makes the decisions for a living. That doesn't mean that experts are infallible. Nobody is infallible. Experts in every field make mistakes. But (and this is my point) they know better than everyone else.
And in particular they would know whether or not Coughlin has dementia or is unable to carry on a detailed football discussion during an interview. These people know better than any of us what they are doing.
Nnnnnoooooooo!!!!
Sherlock Holmes would understand logic. Let's assume the following as facts:
A. Tom Coughlin was not happy about leaving the Giants.
B. The reason Coughlin was not happy is because he still intends to coach and is not ready to retire.
C. Coughlin interviews with the Eagles.
From a pure logic standpoint, if A and B are both true, there is zero basis to conclude that C can only be because Coughlin is upset with Mara.
It is much more plausible that Coughlin wants to coach near his 4 children and 14 grandchildren. That he doesn't want to be away from them when he doesn't have many years left to spend with them. That leaves the Eagles. Or Jets. Or NE.
And why do you care anyway? You wanted him gone. He sucks as a coach so isn't that GOOD for the Giants if he goes to the Eagles?
LOL - You wanted Coughlin gone; you got your wish. Not sure why people want continue to dump on him. It's clear he wanted to continue to coach. Philly job is open, why shouldn't he check it? Giants won two SB during his tenure, he owes fans nothing. Personnaly, I wish him well. If he gets the Eagle job, I'd find that weird. Hope he finds something that interests him outside of the NFCE
So would I - it'd be nice to beat Philly twice a year for a change.
That's ridiculous. First of all, using the word "us" is silly. Tom Coughlin doesn't know you and I'm pretty sure isn't as emotional about you as you are about him.
Secondly, why you are so emotional about this? If he goes to the Eagles, it will make Giant/Eagle games more fun than ever before.
And you have zero - absolutely zero - basis to say such a thing about Coughlin. For you to think such a thing about the man probably reveals more about you than it does about Coughlin.
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In comment 12752006 Rick5 said:
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were pretty adamant that no team could possibly be interested. Wrong.
We can discuss that after he's gotten a HC job.
You really going to argue that if he wants a job as HC he can't get one in the NFL? There was a collectrive group on BBI that said he would not even get sniffed at for a job, you don't think if he wanted the Clev, TB, or Miami job they would not have jumped at that?
I didn't say any of those things. I wouldn't be surprised it someone hired him. There might be situations where he would work out well. I don't think he should have been kept here. All I'm saying is that there is a big difference between "showing interest" and actually hiring someone.
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Would love to see him in Philly. Would make Giants/Eagles games even more special than they already are.
So would I - it'd be nice to beat Philly twice a year for a change.
Well, I understand you are saying that for different reasons than me, but I want them the Giants to shut out the entire division. And beating the Eagles with Coughlin at the helm would be pretty special. You just know that those games would be very tense. It would be great exciting football. As a fan, that's what I want. Give me good rivalries. Give me games that cause buzz and talk and intensity. It would be great stuff.
And in particular they would know whether or not Coughlin has dementia or is unable to carry on a detailed football discussion during an interview. These people know better than any of us what they are doing.
I kind of chuckled at this...i would hope your definition of expert was a higher standard than just this!
Hell, if not, you and I would do just fine picking the next coach since i do this type of assessment on BBI each week...
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In comment 12752006 Rick5 said:
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were pretty adamant that no team could possibly be interested. Wrong.
We can discuss that after he's gotten a HC job.
Teams can still be interested and yet not pull the trigger, you know.
Yeah, I know. It's like saying a piece of ass is interested in you, but you don't get laid.
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And in particular they would know whether or not Coughlin has dementia or is unable to carry on a detailed football discussion during an interview. These people know better than any of us what they are doing.
I kind of chuckled at this...i would hope your definition of expert was a higher standard than just this!
Hell, if not, you and I would do just fine picking the next coach since i do this type of assessment on BBI each week...
Good one. Actually made me laugh out loud and wake my grandson. lol
Ahh, shit. So, just for the record, I'm still actively employed and do my best to keep the brain reasonably active (although my daughters seem to question at times whether that strategy is working very well).
No way is it about money for TC. If he goes to the Eagles which is something I suspect he would hate to do because of his love for the Giants but that just demonstrates how much the man wants to coach. He certainly doesn't need the money and could work in the FO of many teams or be a commentator for sure. The guy just wants to coach and I respect him for that. In fact, I respect Tom so much I'll have to route for the Eagles though I'll still be a Giants fan.
And by the way how am I way off if I was within 2 games of being correct?
Oh I know, I was off two games because our coaches acted like morons in the losses to Dallas and the Jets.
Virtually 90% of this board had us between 6-10 wins prior to July 4th. That means with a perfectly healthy team BBI had us at an avg of 8 wins. Then we proceed to lose our best O and D lineman, our 2nd best receiver, 3 of our FS, starting and backup TE's, a makeshift O-line for most of the year, starting CB for a few games, Best LB for the most of the season, etc...etc..
And people bitch even though we were relevant for up to the 15th week
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In comment 12752347 drkenneth said:
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Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Wait. Jernigan, who is out of football, is your argument for TC not playing the "talent"? John Mara is now an astute personnel guy? Jerrell Jernigan?
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
Can you fucking read? The comment was never about JJ. (As I clearly stated). It was a knock on his use of personnel.
There were better options than Nicks. Just like there were better options than Andre Williams. Just like James Jones was a better option.
But I don' expect you to understand. You clearly feel Tom Coughlin's stools are made of gold.
You're the at the extreme end of the Pro-Coughlin section. You sound ridiculous.
Anybody
But
Coughlin
It's always somebody else's fault. Coughlin owes a lot to Eli Manning, who's eaten a ton of shit because of Coughlin.
Tom Coughlin could shit his pants on the sideline and it would be John Mara's fault. Save the stupid fucking "Everyone is an idiot except Coughlin rant. You sound like an old fool loaded at the local VFW.
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I'm just pretty damn sure he's doing this to stick it to us, out of spite...
That's ridiculous. First of all, using the word "us" is silly. Tom Coughlin doesn't know you and I'm pretty sure isn't as emotional about you as you are about him.
Secondly, why you are so emotional about this? If he goes to the Eagles, it will make Giant/Eagle games more fun than ever before.
And you have zero - absolutely zero - basis to say such a thing about Coughlin. For you to think such a thing about the man probably reveals more about you than it does about Coughlin.
Good call. When I read David's post I thought the same thing. REDICULOUS. It's purely a business decision for Tom and only because he wants to coach so much. You can't blame the guy for that. I'll bet he's not too fond of going to another team in our division but he'd be stupid to let that prevent him from doing what he loves to do.
I hope he gets the job if he wants it.
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In comment 12752347 drkenneth said:
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Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
No you can't, viurtually every NFL expert stated that they thought Coughlin did a great job with the talent at hand
What "NFL Experts"??? Ex coaches? Chris Snee? His ex players? You really think they'd say anything different?
How many coaches in the NFL would survive 3 straight losing seasons? He won a Super Bowl at 9-7 because Eli played at a MVP Level and Nicks, Cruz, and MM were out of their minds. Fewell's (Coughlin hire) shitty defense flipped a switch and played 4 Greta games. Never to been seen again. I'm not sure what Coughlin had to do with that.
It's not a lifetime appointment.
No one said it is so spare everyone your constant refrain of "lifetime appt" its a strawman argument and really silly to begin with. There was not one analyst who felt that this was a bad coaching job this season. They all commented that they felt the job he did with the talent at hand was admirable at the least.
Yea. He should give up his happiness just so you won't be upset. Could you possibly be more self centered?
The subject of Coughlin seems to bring out a lot of negativity from you.
Let's see if he gets offered a HC position.
Couldn't agree more 'we' is the correct term.
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But imo the team has had about 8-8 type talent for the last few years.
And by the way how am I way off if I was within 2 games of being correct?
Oh I know, I was off two games because our coaches acted like morons in the losses to Dallas and the Jets.
Virtually 90% of this board had us between 6-10 wins prior to July 4th. That means with a perfectly healthy team BBI had us at an avg of 8 wins. Then we proceed to lose our best O and D lineman, our 2nd best receiver, 3 of our FS, starting and backup TE's, a makeshift O-line for most of the year, starting CB for a few games, Best LB for the most of the season, etc...etc..
And people bitch even though we were relevant for up to the 15th week
What a silly retort.
More than half the NFL teams fall between 6-10 wins every year, so what the hell do you expect this board to say?
And if anybody actually picks anything less than a 10 win record with a perfectly healthy team, I would call them a moron. A perfectly healthy team better win 10 games. You should look at the top 40 or so players on the roster when you predict because they are all going to play. Especially when your the Giants and lead the league in injuries every year.
And it was nice to be relevant up until week 15. Thank God we play in the NFC East huh?
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In comment 12752388 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 12752347 drkenneth said:
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Regardless of OC (Gilbride or McAdoo), he's made blunders:
Playing Nicks on one leg with Randle, Wilson, Jernigan on bench, Mara's now infamous "Jernigan comment". Regardless of what you think of these player, they were clearly the best options, and Coughlin remained stubborn. Maras comments never were about JJ, they were a knock on TCs misuse of personnel. Those issue still remained in 2015. Not leaning on Jennings/Vereen more and playing Williams is very poor and lacking any forward thinking.
Wait. Jernigan, who is out of football, is your argument for TC not playing the "talent"? John Mara is now an astute personnel guy? Jerrell Jernigan?
Holy shit, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentation barrel to pull that example out. If anything, it shows TC knew more than Larry the GM or Moe the owner. I give you credit for balls though, trying to make Jernigan into an argument that the "talent" wasn't utilized.
Can you fucking read? The comment was never about JJ. (As I clearly stated). It was a knock on his use of personnel.
There were better options than Nicks. Just like there were better options than Andre Williams. Just like James Jones was a better option.
But I don' expect you to understand. You clearly feel Tom Coughlin's stools are made of gold.
You're the at the extreme end of the Pro-Coughlin section. You sound ridiculous.
Anybody
But
Coughlin
It's always somebody else's fault. Coughlin owes a lot to Eli Manning, who's eaten a ton of shit because of Coughlin.
Tom Coughlin could shit his pants on the sideline and it would be John Mara's fault. Save the stupid fucking "Everyone is an idiot except Coughlin rant. You sound like an old fool loaded at the local VFW.
I don't blame you for walking back that silly statement. Using two guys who are out of the league and a rookie as examples of "not utilizing the talent" was pretty stupid.
You're such a clown.
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In comment 12752382 Jimmy Googs said:
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But imo the team has had about 8-8 type talent for the last few years.
And by the way how am I way off if I was within 2 games of being correct?
Oh I know, I was off two games because our coaches acted like morons in the losses to Dallas and the Jets.
Virtually 90% of this board had us between 6-10 wins prior to July 4th. That means with a perfectly healthy team BBI had us at an avg of 8 wins. Then we proceed to lose our best O and D lineman, our 2nd best receiver, 3 of our FS, starting and backup TE's, a makeshift O-line for most of the year, starting CB for a few games, Best LB for the most of the season, etc...etc..
And people bitch even though we were relevant for up to the 15th week
What a silly retort.
More than half the NFL teams fall between 6-10 wins every year, so what the hell do you expect this board to say?
And if anybody actually picks anything less than a 10 win record with a perfectly healthy team, I would call them a moron. A perfectly healthy team better win 10 games. You should look at the top 40 or so players on the roster when you predict because they are all going to play. Especially when your the Giants and lead the league in injuries every year.
And it was nice to be relevant up until week 15. Thank God we play in the NFC East huh?
Your clueless, you can't even answer the first question i asked without some absurd response about a poll. It was a simple question regarding your claim of 8-8 and all you did was dance around it because you know you had us at 8-8 PRIOR to being decimated by injuries. Because that did not fit your whine, you decided to try to blow smoke up everyone's ass.
Its real easy Ace, if you had this team at 8-8 prior to July 4th, you should be able to understand how good the coaching actually was given the talent on the field. Let me illustrate it for you again with a another simple question that hopefully you want try to spin around not answering it:
Name me one team we lost to that had less talent on the field then we did this year?
I have never seen that discussed and have never been part of any such discussion. However it is a stupid conversation. TC was relieved of his job. He has a right to his happiness. If the Giants don't want him to coach in Philadelphia, then have him coach the Giants. Don't want him to coach the Giants? Then the man is entitled to work and do what he loves.
He is entitled to his happiness. For you to think he should give up a job opportunity because that would make YOU happy is really quite an astounding thought process on your part. And incredibly self centered and selfish.
Name me one team we lost to that had less talent on the field then we did this year?
Redskins, New Orleans, Atlanta off the top of my head. And not exactly comfortable with last second wins versus less talented San Fran and Dallas (second game).
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Yea, because YOU know what is best for Tom Coughlin and his family.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Another thing to bear in mind was expecting 8-8 with the NFCE maintaining pace from last season.
When Romo went down early and the Eagles went into the shitter, that alone should have somewhat compensated for our injuries. Instead, swept by the Eagles again and needed a pick-6 (yeah, that fucking defense again) to beat the Cassel led Cowboys.
No way anyone can look at this season, with the bad decisions, the OBJ mess, etc. - and conclude the coaches did a good job. The best you can do is caveat their poor performance with a note about injuries and talent.
Biggest game of the year by far and no one is ready to play.
After a bye week no less...sound familiar?
Can't have it...that was the end of the Coughlin era in my view.
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Its real easy Ace, if you had this team at 8-8 prior to July 4th, you should be able to understand how good the coaching actually was given the talent on the field. Let me illustrate it for you again with a another simple question that hopefully you want try to spin around not answering it:
Name me one team we lost to that had less talent on the field then we did this year?
Redskins, New Orleans, Atlanta off the top of my head. And not exactly comfortable with last second wins versus less talented San Fran and Dallas (second game).
Naming those teams as having less talent then us, tells me all i need to know about your football knowledge. I am wasting my time with someone who does not have a clue
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Holy shit, we lost our best O and D lineman and 2nd best receiver for the season PRIOR to the start of the season. Do you even watch the games?
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quality at the beginning of the season. And your list of decimating injuries occurred throughout the season, not before it.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Holy shit, we lost our best O and D lineman and 2nd best receiver for the season PRIOR to the start of the season. Do you even watch the games?
What's more amazing is I was only two games off. I guess that Beatty, JPP and Cruz aren't really that much more valuable than the next guy up.
Ah..if only TC had told Eli what to do on the goal line versus Dallas and kicked the FG versus the Jets. I would have been right on. Not bad for not having a clue...
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In comment 12754302 Jimmy Googs said:
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quality at the beginning of the season. And your list of decimating injuries occurred throughout the season, not before it.
But most importantly if you think TC and coaches did a great job despite less talent than our opposition and all the injuries then so be it. I don't, I think they made plenty of mistakes as well that contributed to losses.
The makeup of the team needs change on and off the field. A lot of players won't be back because of it, TC won't be back because of it. And if Reese doesn't do better too soon, he wont be back because of it.
Holy shit, we lost our best O and D lineman and 2nd best receiver for the season PRIOR to the start of the season. Do you even watch the games?
What's more amazing is I was only two games off. I guess that Beatty, JPP and Cruz aren't really that much more valuable than the next guy up.
Ah..if only TC had told Eli what to do on the goal line versus Dallas and kicked the FG versus the Jets. I would have been right on. Not bad for not having a clue...
See your still failing completely to get it. We were only two off because of the job that staff did in spite of all the backbreaking injuries
I think the format here is that people are supposed to offer opinions.
The issues: HC position will require a minimum commitment of about 5 years. There are man factors related to success of HC, primarily personnel. If he struggles down there or it takes longer than expected to make a run, could damage any chances he has at making it to HOF. To my mind, seems like an awful big commitment to make re: time and energy to make at this stage in life.
There, feel better?