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Coughlin's Negatives - Argument for Termination

Dodge : 1/11/2016 2:44 pm
Yay another Coughlin thread. This also isn't a pro-Reese thread either.

I've been wanting to write something up for the last week but haven't had enough time to get something together. It's mostly in response to the people that are pro-Coughlin and think one more year (or longer) is just fine.

There have already been plenty of obvious remarks like the amount of losing seasons in a row, the lack of playoff appearances, time management etc. I won't rehash that, but here are a few other arguments that many of us have been complaining about in the last decade.

Coughlin stuck with veteran players longer than he should have.

Do you remember the last few years with Kiwi? There have been many times in his stay here that he has kept veteran players in the game at the expense of giving newer/younger players time on the field even if it was a determent to the team. Do we have to even then discuss keeping players like Parker and Robinson around for ever?

This extends to Coordinators as well.

Player Development

This one bites both ways with the front office and Coughlin. Is this all Coughlin's fault? No. But it isn't probably all Reese's fault either. Coughlin was responsible for developing talent and there have been many players that could of potentially fallen through the cracks.

Running back by committee

I have no idea what this was all about this year. Jennings should of been run into the ground. Why does a player like Andre Williams get playing time after consistent proof that he has really bad vision when players like Wilson fumbled once and never played again?

Team not ready to play

How often did we see the Giants just not seem ready to play whether it's the regular season or pre-season? There has been plenty of times when the team comes out flat and just not perform. You often see the Giants just fall flat against seemingly weaker teams and never rising to the occasion against stronger teams (2014).

Let's also discuss the blowouts, the late season failures, the streakiness of wins and losses consistently throughout his career here. Late season collapses etc.

Outside 2008, no Coughlin team dominated during the regular season.

During 2006 through 2012 Coughlin had some really good teams and outside the two years he won it all he never won another playoff game. The team had talent and we never had a season where we won more than 10 games (outside 2008).

Compare this to the Steelers under Tomlin and Cowher. In the same time frame as Eli/Ben, they never had a losing records, the worse being 8-8 (3 times). That's what you expect to see in a team over 10 years with a "Hall of Fame" QB.

There are probably a few other points that I'm leaving out, but I've never been enamored with Coughlin the coach. He's average at his worst and great at his best, but he spends more time at his worst than at his best.

I look forward to moving on and opening a new chapter in Giants history. It wasn't getting better under Coughlin, that's for sure, all the trend lines are pointing down for the Coughlin led Giants. I don't think it could get much worse. Time to move on.

I agree with your points, but IMO it's just beating a dead horse  
jcn56 : 1/11/2016 2:48 pm : link
At this point you're bound to get two types of responses, agreement, and disagreement with the insistence that Reese should have lost his job as well.
I saw many reasons for termination for TC, it was time for change  
JonC : 1/11/2016 2:49 pm : link
Where most fans here get hung up is that Reese was retained when a case for his termination is perhaps more readily there for demonstration.

Not the NYG way, but legitimately a case could be made to clean house.

There's also quite a lot of fans wanting to retain TC  
JonC : 1/11/2016 2:51 pm : link
thinking more with their hearts and sentimentality, imo.
Good post  
lester : 1/11/2016 2:51 pm : link
and Carl Banks even mentioned it a few times this year that they stick with guys that lack production a little longer than they should. Love the TC but its time to move on, maybe even a couple years too late.
jcn  
Dodge : 1/11/2016 2:52 pm : link
If this was other teams, Reese and Coughlin probably would of gotten fired. But the Giants don't do things that way. So in context of how the Giants operate who do you fire?

An old coach with all trend lines point down?
A GM with a mixture of success and failure?

I pick firing the coach because at least the GM has a bit of an upward trend on what he has done in the last few years.
I also think TC was loyal to a fault...  
BamaBlue : 1/11/2016 2:55 pm : link
with the coaching staff. Rather than holding them accountable and making changes, he waited until the situation became untenable. His management of OC's and DC's was cringeworthy. I admire that he took the responsibility on himself and held-off management action, but the net result was that we had ineffective coaches in key positions hurting the team.
There was a prophetic post a couple years ago titled  
mattlawson : 1/11/2016 2:56 pm : link
"I've seen the future and it ain't us"

May have been after the absolute domination by Carolina when we wanted Coughlin, fewell, and Gilbride fired on the spot

That title was so succinctly truthful that it's always stuck with me. Before McAdoo and Beckham came along it was the case. Now we have glimpses of how things could be but... Shit defense personell, bad clock management, poor stubborn decision making devoid of analysis (RB rotation) and all the other points you bring up -- it remains time for a change. Tom was a great coach - no doubt about it. But is best days are behind him.
anyone thinking with their head instead of their heart  
Vanzetti : 1/11/2016 2:56 pm : link
knows it was time for Coughlin to go.

All the hand-wringing is just media driven nonsense.
I've been making your point regarding the repeated blowout losses  
lawguy9801 : 1/11/2016 3:03 pm : link
and the countless times they've seemed unprepared to play - most notably, and inexcusably, the Atlanta and Baltimore games during the stretch run in 2012. And it's happened many times since then.

A lot of people look at the Super Bowls and it clouds (or eliminates) their thinking as to what we all saw with our very own eyes on repeated occasions during almost the entirety of TC's tenure.

John Mara created a mess  
arniefez : 1/11/2016 3:04 pm : link
and made Coughlin a martyr when he kept Reese. None of us have any idea who is really calling the shots when it comes to the roster. But John Mara decided he likes having Jerry Reese around even though the majority of draft picks and free agents have been awful for 5 or more years. You can form your own opinion why Reese was retained but there's no question that Mara was out of touch and and living in an ivory tower not to realize how much blow back he'd get for keeping Reese and how badly that farce of a press conference would blow up in his face and on Reese.
RE: John Mara created a mess  
Dodge : 1/11/2016 3:14 pm : link
In comment 12758239 arniefez said:
Quote:
and made Coughlin a martyr when he kept Reese. None of us have any idea who is really calling the shots when it comes to the roster. But John Mara decided he likes having Jerry Reese around even though the majority of draft picks and free agents have been awful for 5 or more years. You can form your own opinion why Reese was retained but there's no question that Mara was out of touch and and living in an ivory tower not to realize how much blow back he'd get for keeping Reese and how badly that farce of a press conference would blow up in his face and on Reese.


This is pretty poor thinking and often the simplest answer is the correct one.

In my opinion that means that Mara was not happy with both Reese and Coughlin. His comments from the last two years just shows this, and I believe him in all of his comments over the last week. He's essentially giving Reese one last chance.

Mara will be the one selecting the next coach so don't bother with the "Reese will screw up this coaching pick".

Mara is not out of touch, he's a pretty measured owner that values stability. Coughlin won here, and that bought him an extra year that most coaches never get. His two SB wins bought him the ability to lose three years in a row where most coaches would of gotten 2.
RE: jcn  
jcn56 : 1/11/2016 3:17 pm : link
In comment 12758212 Dodge said:
Quote:
If this was other teams, Reese and Coughlin probably would of gotten fired. But the Giants don't do things that way. So in context of how the Giants operate who do you fire?

An old coach with all trend lines point down?
A GM with a mixture of success and failure?

I pick firing the coach because at least the GM has a bit of an upward trend on what he has done in the last few years.


If I were Mara (and I'm certainly not), I'd look at it as follows:

- Both men have proven they were capable at some point
- The combination of the two were not getting it done anymore
- Both are responsible (albeit one more than the other) for personnel decisions - do NOT confuse accountability and responsibility here
- It's easier to eval the GM than the coach

That last point would be key to me. Scouting reports are etched in stone. They're records. They're kept on all players the scouting teams see, not just guys who come to the Giants. How effective our ranking is isn't just visible in the players we draft, but on the players we miss out or pass on. If we had a sleeper we thought would be great, targeted for the 3rd round, and he gets picked two spots ahead of us, we will know how effectively our scouting had pegged that player based on NFL performance. In essence, you can grade the scouting based on a much broader body of work.

Coaching is a bit tougher; it's a compound analysis, dependent on the effectiveness of your scouting as well as your analysis of the roster (what holes we need to fill) and how well you've judged a player's ability to fit into your scheme. You can get a good player who's a square peg into a round hole (Beckum?), and even if he's good and you can coach him up he might never be productive.

Complicating matters were some pretty obvious coaching issues over the past couple of seasons, as pointed out in the OP above. So now if you're Mara you're asking yourself - if the coaching is suffering, maybe the rest of the eval/draft input it suffering as well?

Combine Coughlin's age, then consider the list of coaches who managed to be effective for more than 12 years in one place, and you get to a decision pretty quickly. I don't fault Mara, I would have arrived at the same destination.

The only difference is that people keep extending it to mean that Reese is 'safe'. If by safe you mean not fired, sure. But Mara's PC was pretty obvious - Reese is on borrowed time now.
RE: RE: John Mara created a mess  
lawguy9801 : 1/11/2016 3:19 pm : link
In comment 12758262 Dodge said:
Quote:
In comment 12758239 arniefez said:


Quote:


and made Coughlin a martyr when he kept Reese. None of us have any idea who is really calling the shots when it comes to the roster. But John Mara decided he likes having Jerry Reese around even though the majority of draft picks and free agents have been awful for 5 or more years. You can form your own opinion why Reese was retained but there's no question that Mara was out of touch and and living in an ivory tower not to realize how much blow back he'd get for keeping Reese and how badly that farce of a press conference would blow up in his face and on Reese.



This is pretty poor thinking and often the simplest answer is the correct one.

In my opinion that means that Mara was not happy with both Reese and Coughlin. His comments from the last two years just shows this, and I believe him in all of his comments over the last week. He's essentially giving Reese one last chance.

Mara will be the one selecting the next coach so don't bother with the "Reese will screw up this coaching pick".

Mara is not out of touch, he's a pretty measured owner that values stability. Coughlin won here, and that bought him an extra year that most coaches never get. His two SB wins bought him the ability to lose three years in a row where most coaches would of gotten 2.


This is how Mara operates. TC got several "last chances" to prove himself - and he usually delivered, until the end of his tenure at least. Reese has now been given his ultimatum. We have another shitty draft class and/or free agent period, and he's a goner. We'll see how he performs when his mind is focused and he is trying to save his job.
overly simplistic  
bc4life : 1/11/2016 3:21 pm : link
have to loo at the injuries - Beatty, Cruz, Wilson - completely changes the look of the offense. on defense - JPP, Ellis failing to pan out, Beason - Odi is another important injury.

but for those injuries, the team could well have won a lot of those close games.

I'm okay with them moving on but you have to consider the personnel issues, and injuries played a major role in their struggles

jcn  
Dodge : 1/11/2016 3:22 pm : link
Good points and I agree completely with that.

A lot of people only see Coughlin the coach who won two SBs 4-5 years ago. A lot of people see Coughlin as the man behind a great charity or behind very good speeches. They see players loving him and respecting him.

Personally, I want player with a combination of love and hate and fear of their coach.

What people either forget, don't know, or aren't aware of is how much of a fingerprint this coaching staff had on player evaluation and development.

Coughlin worked with Reese to create a "giant brand" of player and that's evident in that Finding Giants show. They have a mold of what they want, and what they want is created by the coaching staff.

It's impossible, without being in there, to know how extensive Coughlin was in with player evaluation and draft and free agency decisions. But he wasn't innocent in that aspect of the team either.
RE: overly simplistic  
Dodge : 1/11/2016 3:24 pm : link
In comment 12758288 bc4life said:
Quote:
have to loo at the injuries - Beatty, Cruz, Wilson - completely changes the look of the offense. on defense - JPP, Ellis failing to pan out, Beason - Odi is another important injury.

but for those injuries, the team could well have won a lot of those close games.

I'm okay with them moving on but you have to consider the personnel issues, and injuries played a major role in their struggles


Injuries are part of the game. It's always a part of your decision making process for sure, but you can only stretch that so far. Probably a proponent of why Coughlin wasn't fire 2-3 years ago.
RE: RE: RE: John Mara created a mess  
Dodge : 1/11/2016 3:25 pm : link
In comment 12758282 lawguy9801 said:


This is how Mara operates. TC got several "last chances" to prove himself - and he usually delivered, until the end of his tenure at least. Reese has now been given his ultimatum. We have another shitty draft class and/or free agent period, and he's a goner. We'll see how he performs when his mind is focused and he is trying to save his job. [/quote]

Like I said, stability with success. But even when Coughlin was on the hot seat or was being threatened of a firing he wasn't 6-10, he was at worst 8-8.
jcn  
JonC : 1/11/2016 3:31 pm : link
Excellent post. It was actually difficult to watch Reese during his portion of the PC, Mara basically leveled him beforehand.
I wonder how much the 2007 season is based on Accorsi + Reese  
TheEvilLurker : 1/11/2016 3:32 pm : link
Looking back, outside of Eli, Accorsi was great at later picks (past rd 1), and missed on the first round.

Reese is trending the opposite. Get rd 1 right (for most part), and miss on later rds.

When both these trends overlapped is when the team was at it's best under Coughlin. Once the latter round picks stopped being so good is when the Giants stopped having depth, and we get teams that can't finish.
The right decision was made  
silverfox : 1/11/2016 3:32 pm : link
...only two years too late. Your points are spot on. The blowouts, embarrassed many times in prime time, keeping players way too long, never allowing young talent to play, terrible late game decisions, afraid to sit Eli when he was destroying us with multiple ints, too many running backs, an undisciplined team, an unprepared team, no leaders which starts at the top, etc, etc. Even the two SB years were average at best regular seasons. They got lucky and they got hot twice.
RE: I wonder how much the 2007 season is based on Accorsi + Reese  
jcn56 : 1/11/2016 3:36 pm : link
In comment 12758331 TheEvilLurker said:
Quote:
Looking back, outside of Eli, Accorsi was great at later picks (past rd 1), and missed on the first round.

Reese is trending the opposite. Get rd 1 right (for most part), and miss on later rds.

When both these trends overlapped is when the team was at it's best under Coughlin. Once the latter round picks stopped being so good is when the Giants stopped having depth, and we get teams that can't finish.


See, I'm starting to look at it differently - to me, it seems like the coaching staff and position coaches started to decline. Once that was the case, you got production out of your more talented (early round) players, and everyone else went to pot.
RE: RE: I wonder how much the 2007 season is based on Accorsi + Reese  
TheEvilLurker : 1/11/2016 3:42 pm : link
In comment 12758343 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12758331 TheEvilLurker said:


Quote:


Looking back, outside of Eli, Accorsi was great at later picks (past rd 1), and missed on the first round.

Reese is trending the opposite. Get rd 1 right (for most part), and miss on later rds.

When both these trends overlapped is when the team was at it's best under Coughlin. Once the latter round picks stopped being so good is when the Giants stopped having depth, and we get teams that can't finish.



See, I'm starting to look at it differently - to me, it seems like the coaching staff and position coaches started to decline. Once that was the case, you got production out of your more talented (early round) players, and everyone else went to pot.


You may well be right. I guess the way to look at that are the positional and coordinator positions, and how many are still coaching vs out of work (not including Gilbride).
Good post in raising these issues.  
TMS : 1/11/2016 3:49 pm : link
Agree on his loyalty and insistence on keeping vets even when they were perhaps not the best option.Same thing with his coaches and coordinators who were not developing players or doing the best job like Flaherty. He even promoted Sheridan. The bottom line though is Coughlin is the most knowledgeable, hard working and talented person in the organization by far. He turned this team around and was most responsible for our return to respectability and winning two SBs.
Our return to respectability?  
jcn56 : 1/11/2016 3:52 pm : link
We were in the Super Bowl 4 years before Coughlin got here!
RE: Our return to respectability?  
GMenLTS : 1/11/2016 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12758404 jcn56 said:
Quote:
We were in the Super Bowl 4 years before Coughlin got here!


How'd that go?
cannot disagree  
Paulie Walnuts : 1/11/2016 3:58 pm : link
with anything you said... it was time

but Ross at least should have gone also
Who are the players on the last few giants teams  
Rudy5757 : 1/11/2016 3:59 pm : link
that are considered TC guys? Seems to me that he didnt have many guys that would run through a wall for him. It looks as if Tuck was one of those guys but he wasnt here the last few seasons. Rolle seemed to be somewhat critical of coughlin, respectful but critical. I am sure Eli is one of them but is that because he doesnt know any other coaches? Just wondering if any of you had thoughts on who TCs key players were on the current team?

Some of it may be due to the losing record, messages dont seem to be as powerful when you have had a lot of losses. But I really cant pinpoint players on this team that absolutely love TC and would follow him to another team if he did in fact find a job. Parcells certainly had that, Belichek has them. We didnt seem to get any players from Jacksonville when TC came here either.
RE: RE: Our return to respectability?  
jcn56 : 1/11/2016 4:01 pm : link
In comment 12758407 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
In comment 12758404 jcn56 said:


Quote:


We were in the Super Bowl 4 years before Coughlin got here!



How'd that go?


We lost - then again, against an all time great defense and with Kerry Collins at QB.

But Strahan, Toomer and others were building up the foundation that would take us to XLII. Let's not make it seem like Coughlin rescued the Giants from obscurity.
No reason for Giants to be " loyal" to JR, and not TC...  
GloryDayz : 1/11/2016 4:17 pm : link
A lot of things happen behind closed doors fans never know about. Few would have blamed Mara for firing JR along with TC.

I would have actually retained TC for 1 more year, I still am a fan of his, but its hard to believe letting him go & letting Reese stay was arbitrary. TC made a few questionable decision on the field, we all saw that, who knows what else they saw. Mara has been taking a lot of heat for letting TC go and sticking with JR, but the only way he can justify his decision is to hang the dirty laundry for the world to see... anyone who knows anything about the Giants would know they wouldn't do that, not to someone like TC.
Dodge..hate to say it but can't argue with any of it.  
Blue21 : 1/11/2016 4:31 pm : link
.
Does anybody give any  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/11/2016 4:37 pm : link
credence to the notion that the Giants are too much of a "players team"?

Specifically towards injuries, player development, and player loyalty?

It's obvious to me that the Giants have a great rep. I love the fact that all the players who played for multiple teams will always say that the Giants was their best experience, however I'm not sure I love it at the expense of the team's record.
Did They Fire Coughlin Too Soon?  
Jim in NH : 1/11/2016 5:18 pm : link
On February 3, 2008, before Belichick was in the tunnel, I posted a thread here titled "I Suppose It's Too Late To Fire Coughlin".

I agree with a lot of the comments here. To me, the two big differences between the Parcells teams and the Coughlin teams were 1) Readiness to play; and 2) Injuries. I suspect these are two sides of the same coin.

W-L in game 1 would be an interesting stat. I've been a Giants fan since 1956, and it seems to me that in the Coughlin years I was always down after Game 1.

Now, the SB run in 2007 was epic, I grant you. And I have no trouble crediting Coach Coughlin for a tremendous motivational job for that, and leading up to SB XLII.

But his teams often took too long to "get up to speed", if you will, and although strength and conditioning were not his primary responsibility, to have this many injuries year after year on his watch has to count against him.

All in all, I think it was time to go.
OK, I looked it up  
Jim in NH : 1/11/2016 5:34 pm : link
NYG Game 1 results 2004-2015

W4, L8

24PF 26PA (average)
Why is this such a black-and-white issue?  
exiled : 1/11/2016 5:48 pm : link
Be critical of Coughlin. You can question what he did. Whatever.

But keep in mind that we're just watching the games. We don't have the insights into the team that he and the staff did. Saying things like, "he was too loyal," or that "he didn't let the young talent play" or even "his clock management sucks" are just such one-dimensional observations. Lots of stuff goes into these decisions that WE'LL NEVER KNOW ABOUT.

Results are the same. Three losing seasons. But I'm not sure you can look at the roster and the injuries and then decide so firmly that Coughlin was "the" problem.
... people that are pro-Coughlin  
Trainmaster : 1/11/2016 6:10 pm : link
While there are some "pro-Coughlin" fans who would have retained Coughlin and fired Reese, many/most of the "pro-Coughlin" crowd are more upset that Coughlin was let go with Reese being retained.

Many feel it should have been keep both or fire both.
Why is this such a black-and-white issue?  
compton : 1/11/2016 6:12 pm : link
Quote:
Be critical of Coughlin. You can question what he did. Whatever.

But keep in mind that we're just watching the games. We don't have the insights into the team that he and the staff did. Saying things like, "he was too loyal," or that "he didn't let the young talent play" or even "his clock management sucks" are just such one-dimensional observations. Lots of stuff goes into these decisions that WE'LL NEVER KNOW ABOUT.

Results are the same. Three losing seasons. But I'm not sure you can look at the roster and the injuries and then decide so firmly that Coughlin was "the" problem.


The team has suffered second half collapses every season from 2004 to 2012 (with the exception of 2005 and 2008). So yes, we can conclude that TC was a big part of the problem.
RE: Why is this such a black-and-white issue?  
jcn56 : 1/11/2016 6:16 pm : link
In comment 12758658 exiled said:
Quote:
Be critical of Coughlin. You can question what he did. Whatever.

But keep in mind that we're just watching the games. We don't have the insights into the team that he and the staff did. Saying things like, "he was too loyal," or that "he didn't let the young talent play" or even "his clock management sucks" are just such one-dimensional observations. Lots of stuff goes into these decisions that WE'LL NEVER KNOW ABOUT.

Results are the same. Three losing seasons. But I'm not sure you can look at the roster and the injuries and then decide so firmly that Coughlin was "the" problem.


Be wary of anyone looking at a situation this complex and walking away with "the" problem or "the" solution. No one person did this in a vacuum.

The problem is, people are trying to do exactly that - 'it's not X, it's Y'. The Giants aren't looking at it like that - they're less concerned with the problem, more focused on the solution. The issue a lot of people have with it is the Giants deciding that Reese should be part of the solution and not Coughlin, which to them implies he played a smaller part in the demise. That doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Then we get to fairness, because here's where we need to explain to grown men that life is not fair sometimes. Go figure.
Dodge  
bc4life : 1/11/2016 7:11 pm : link
It's not the injuries, it's the number of injuries, it's who was injured. Plug those guys into the offense and - Flowers gets to start out as RT, there is a credible option to Beckham, Wilson is coming out of backfield catching passes (with that speed).

JPP alone - would have impacted (not totally solved) the pass rush issue. And, he would have had two hands to do it.

Sorry, the "injuries are part of the game" argument does not do justice to what Giants faced these past few years and how it impacted TC's ability to turn the team around. Offense was getting a lot better without those guys.
..  
Dodge : 1/11/2016 7:28 pm : link
It wasn't like that every year.
ESPN Mike Sando offered this number today in his Insider column  
tempit : 1/11/2016 7:39 pm : link
"The players the Giants drafted since Jerry Reese became GM in 2007 combined to play a league-low 10,767 offensive and defensive snaps in the NFL this season. Other teams' picks over the same span averaged 16,448 snaps per team, or about 53 percent more snaps than the Giants' selections."


I always felt that being Drafted by Giants would hurt your chances of playing for Coughlin and that Giants' FO had a limited Draft pool because Drafted player had to click with Coughlin.

Much has been written about Reese's failure to Draft productive players. Often the statement was made that the lack of Giants' Drafted players on other teams' Roster was that players Drafted by Reese were not NFL talent.

Above says even if Drafted player made Giants' Roster his opportunity to play / develop was limited by a lot. Even with a weak vet Roster, Drafted players did not get playing time.

So perhaps it was not all on Reese or those he drafted.


Link - ( New Window )
Love Coughlin  
MaineMike : 1/11/2016 8:06 pm : link
But bottom line they have not been a smart team at all. You have to blame that on the head coach.... Also to say he did not realize Odell Beckum was being out of control after game says its time for a change..
I can't believe  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/11/2016 8:13 pm : link
People are still posting on this and with loads of questionable points. Jennings the work horse? When has that worked? The goal was have him on the field in January.
There were a lot of problems that contributed to his failure.  
EricJ : 1/11/2016 8:21 pm : link
Some of those things were already mentioned earlier in the thread. I will also add the following things that I viewed as serious issues that resulted in poor performance...

1. Coughlin often forced his style of play upon a team that may not have been best suited for that style. In other words, not adjusting to the talent he had.

2. This OCD he had about "balance" as if that in itself would result in a win. If anything, it contributed to the Giants becoming predictable.

3. Young players having to prove themselves in some unwritten and unknown way before they could be handed a starting role with injury to the veteran starter being the only reason to let the rookie start.

4. On offense, the personnel/substitutions essentially telegraphing what play was going to be called next. OR what plays the defense can rule out. Example, when Sinorice Moss came here, the only time he stepped on the field was when we ran a WR screen to him. We have also had RBs who never would be thrown the ball. So, the defense never had to concern themselves with that. These are just two examples.

5. Playing players out of position. ie..Kiwi. The longest failed experiment in NFL history.

6. His style (and reputation) in my opinion resulted in the Giants having difficulty signing some free agents.

7. The details. We know Coughlin is a stickler for the details. However, I wonder what details in particular were so important to him. At the same time, I see fundamentals that were lacking. A defense that for so long has been unable to tackle. WRs that often still do not run crisp precise routes and constantly NOT being on the same page as Eli. CBs that are playing the wrong technique over and over. These are just a few examples.

8. Finally, game management. I think Coughlin is a guy that you want running a disciplined practice and speaking to the team during the week. However, I do not think he is a good game day manager. Not that he has never done a good job that would be ridiculous. I just think that too often he seems to be in over his head or two steps behind the game action. Even things like challenges. I think he was 1-4 this season with those.

9. I cannot remember the last time a Coughlin team executed a fake/trick play. As a result, the opposition really does not have to concern themselves with that. It means the defense can on a punt come right after our punter without hesitation. I dont even remember us faking a reverse on a kickoff. Not that we have to run fakes every game. The fact that we never do just makes us easier to defend. One less thing for the opposition to prepare for and to think about on the field.

10. Under Coughlin, somehow we could never consistently execute a screen pass. This play has killed us on the defensive side of the ball and with a struggling O-line, and on days when Eli has absolutely NO time to do anything back there, a screen game would help significantly. The successful screens we have had during his tenure (for the most part) were due to individual effort vs design and execution.
He's still better than anything  
nicky43 : 1/12/2016 11:44 am : link
we are going to get stuck with!

TC best coach available - ( New Window )
EricJ  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/12/2016 12:19 pm : link
Please send that to Myth Busters
jcn56 with yet another mic-drop post.  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2016 12:38 pm : link
jcn56 said:
Quote:
Be wary of anyone looking at a situation this complex and walking away with "the" problem or "the" solution. No one person did this in a vacuum.

The problem is, people are trying to do exactly that - 'it's not X, it's Y'. The Giants aren't looking at it like that - they're less concerned with the problem, more focused on the solution. The issue a lot of people have with it is the Giants deciding that Reese should be part of the solution and not Coughlin, which to them implies he played a smaller part in the demise. That doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Then we get to fairness, because here's where we need to explain to grown men that life is not fair sometimes. Go figure.

Damn, John. What's with all this wisdom you're dispensing lately? You're getting to be like Yoda without the incomprehensible grammar.
RE: I can't believe  
Dodge : 1/12/2016 12:46 pm : link
In comment 12758897 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
People are still posting on this and with loads of questionable points. Jennings the work horse? When has that worked? The goal was have him on the field in January.


Worked the last couple of weeks.
jcn  
JonC : 1/12/2016 12:57 pm : link
has been thinking with extra clarity and power of late.
LOL, thanks guys  
jcn56 : 1/12/2016 1:09 pm : link
I'm sure I'll revert to the norm any minute now, just like Kirk Cousins :)
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