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Doug Marrone v Mike Smith

gidiefor : Mod : 1/12/2016 10:19 am
Frankly I'm bored, and there won't be any exciting news on the Giants coaching front today or tomorrow so I took some time to look at the backgrounds of DOug Marrone and Mike Smith.

I gotta tell you Marrone's background is not very inspiring other than I like the fact that he was an offensive lineman in college and as a journeyman in the pros Doug Marrone's Biography. He has no years as a coach where his teams showed any kind of dominance - his two winning years at Syracuse were 8-5 Seasons and he was 6-10 and 9-7 as Buffalo's head coach. His biggest claim to fame was being Sean Payton's OC in New Orleans. Mike Pettine worked for him and has hardly been a stellar head coach. He has been solid but unspectacular for the Jaguars who are improved offensively with him as coach. Besides the fact that he has head coaching experience, I don't see him as a real upgrade over MacAdoo - in fact neither one fills me with confidence they can bring the Giants to the Promised Land.

On the other hand Mike Smith has demonstrated some real sizzle and several very solid years of Head Coaching. He had two 13 win seasons at Atlanta and 5 of his 7 years there with winning records. His Coaching record at Atlanta reminds me a lot of Coughlin's coaching record in Jacksonville - early strong success and then petering out. He orchestrated a solid running and passing game in Atlanta with Michael Turner at Running Back and Roddy White and Michael Jenkins at Wide Receiver - and solid pass rushing defense featuring John Abraham, and working with a solid but less than spectacular QB in Matty Ryan. He coached linebackers under Brian Billick and helped the Ravens take a=art the Giants defensively in the 2000 Superbowl and he was AP Coach of the year in 2008.

Overall my assessment is that this is a guy with something to prove and a Coughlinesque background.

Mike Smith's Biography - ( New Window )
Smith, x10  
jcn56 : 1/12/2016 10:21 am : link
If he's actually willing to be DC, I'd run to the nearest fax machine and get his contract over to the league. Put McAdoo in the top spot, make Smith responsible for the defense, he'll have someone to lean on and hopefully turn around that D.

Marrone - aside from physical comparisons made to Parcells, I don't know what the interest there is.
both really good candidates  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2016 10:22 am : link
I like Smith and think he's the strongest candidate out there. The similarities with him and Coughlin, when Coughlin left Jacksonville, in terms of where they both were in their careers are uncanny. Both had 13 win seasons during their tenure, age, record, playoff appearances are really similar.
they're BOTH Bums  
andrew_nyg : 1/12/2016 10:23 am : link
neither will win a championship.

As usual, Mara is a year too late. There were plenty of good candidates last year and the best one is now coaching the Jets.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2016 10:24 am : link
Peter Schrager ‏@PSchrags 15h15 hours ago

Im told a name that's very much in play for the NYG job is Doug Marrone. If Detroit HC job opens up, add Marrone's name to that list too.
biggest difference being  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2016 10:24 am : link
Smith is a defensive coach....which I think is a great thing, as we really need to rebuild our defense. He was a very good d-coordinator.
RE: ...  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2016 10:25 am : link
In comment 12759838 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Peter Schrager ‏@PSchrags 15h15 hours ago

Im told a name that's very much in play for the NYG job is Doug Marrone. If Detroit HC job opens up, add Marrone's name to that list too.


the lack of "chatter" that we're hearing about Mike Smith...is really surprising.
RE: biggest difference being  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/12/2016 10:27 am : link
In comment 12759839 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Smith is a defensive coach....which I think is a great thing, as we really need to rebuild our defense. He was a very good d-coordinator.


Andy -- not only is he right to help the Giants rebuild the Defense, with a strong defensive background, but he has demonstrated an ability to oversee a potent offense as head coach.
Are we really getting any chatter though?  
jcn56 : 1/12/2016 10:27 am : link
We're hearing the Giants are interested in this guy or that one - but that's about it.

Kudos to the Giants - where there used to be one giant (pun intended) leak in the back of the building where all the information poured out of, they seem to be pretty sealed shut now. The unfortunate side effect of that is people taking that to mean that they don't know what they're doing.
RE: RE: biggest difference being  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2016 10:28 am : link
In comment 12759849 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 12759839 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


Smith is a defensive coach....which I think is a great thing, as we really need to rebuild our defense. He was a very good d-coordinator.



Andy -- not only is he right to help the Giants rebuild the Defense, with a strong defensive background, but he has demonstrated an ability to oversee a potent offense as head coach.


I think there is alot of reasons why he makes sense....but I seem to be in the minority. Sometimes with these guys...you really don't know the reputation they have within the league. Maybe his is tarnished because of his last 2 years with Atlanta? I don't know.
RE: Are we really getting any chatter though?  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2016 10:29 am : link
In comment 12759850 jcn56 said:
Quote:
We're hearing the Giants are interested in this guy or that one - but that's about it.

Kudos to the Giants - where there used to be one giant (pun intended) leak in the back of the building where all the information poured out of, they seem to be pretty sealed shut now. The unfortunate side effect of that is people taking that to mean that they don't know what they're doing.


There seems to be chatter that suggests Marrone, Mcadoo and now Hue Jackson are the leaders.....it surprises me that Smith is not mentioned like they are.
Most of that seems to be speculation by beat writers  
jcn56 : 1/12/2016 10:31 am : link
and not so much a source inside the Giants. Which is all well and good, but doesn't do much to give us any idea what's going on.

Ranaan, for example - who is pretty plugged in - mentioned a surprised candidate and said Marrone was highly regarded, and we haven't heard much from him in awhile.

I think the Giants are keeping their cards close to the vest on this one.
Our organization needs a fresh take on defense...  
Torrag : 1/12/2016 10:32 am : link
...from outside the organization. Mike Smith is one of the candidates that provides that. He has a stronger track record than Marrone. One thing that concerns me from watching Atalanta over the years I feel he's only a competent in game manager.
Mike Smith's Atlanta Falcons  
Giants2012 : 1/12/2016 10:33 am : link
made so many bone headed decisions IDK how fans could consider him.

He was atrocious in that playoff game against the Giants. No both 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 he gave away where the play was going.

Empty set backfield and only a QB. It was obvious the call was a QB keeper

One back and no receiver - it's obvious the play wasn't a pass

No way i want to watch coaching blunders and Mike Smith

Pass

RE: RE: Are we really getting any chatter though?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2016 10:33 am : link
In comment 12759857 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
In comment 12759850 jcn56 said:


Quote:


We're hearing the Giants are interested in this guy or that one - but that's about it.

Kudos to the Giants - where there used to be one giant (pun intended) leak in the back of the building where all the information poured out of, they seem to be pretty sealed shut now. The unfortunate side effect of that is people taking that to mean that they don't know what they're doing.



There seems to be chatter that suggests Marrone, Mcadoo and now Hue Jackson are the leaders.....it surprises me that Smith is not mentioned like they are.


Not sure it surprises me.

Starting to see trends in candidates and interviews. They want an offensive guy.

McAdoo, Marrone, Jackson. All offensive coaches, all seemed to get the most talk as 'short list guys'.

Austin, Smith, Spagnuolo you hear nothing about.
RE: Our organization needs a fresh take on defense...  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2016 10:34 am : link
In comment 12759868 Torrag said:
Quote:
...from outside the organization. Mike Smith is one of the candidates that provides that. He has a stronger track record than Marrone. One thing that concerns me from watching Atalanta over the years I feel he's only a competent in game manager.


agreed....if there is a weakness, that's it.
To me though, that can be improved on. He took a year off...I would think he studied and researches stats and scenarios of what to do, how to react in certain critical situations in a game. And you can hire someone to help you with that....so I don't think that should be held against him.
Smith's 2014 Falcons were last in the NFL in defense  
shyster : 1/12/2016 10:37 am : link
If you're supposed to be a defensive coach and you wind up with the worst defense in the league, what are you bringing to the table? I have to think that is a big reason Smith is not getting a lot of interviews.

After replacing Fewell with Spags (who had a 32nd ranked defense on his resume and repeated the feat here in 2015) we're going to replace Spags with another coach whose most recent credential is a 32nd ranked D?

I know the Giants value continuity, but really.
here's Hue Jackson's Biography  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/12/2016 10:37 am : link
his biggest successes seem to come in position coaching and as Offensive Coordinator - he was 8-8 as a head coach - he worked under:

Marty Schottenheimer, Washington Redskins (2001)
Steve Spurrier, Washington Redskins (20022003)
Marvin Lewis, Cincinnati Bengals (20042006) (2012present)
Bobby Petrino, Atlanta Falcons (2007)
Emmitt Thomas (Interim), Atlanta Falcons (2007)
John Harbaugh, Baltimore Ravens (20082009)
Tom Cable, Oakland Raiders (2010)
Marvin Lewis (2011-2015)
Hue Jackson's Biography - ( New Window )
oops  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/12/2016 10:38 am : link
Marvin Lewis (2012-2015)

He was Head Coach in 2011
Going to stick by my needle in a haystack thought  
Giants2012 : 1/12/2016 10:40 am : link
If the decision lingers through the weekend . . . they're waiting.

Clause in the contract? Belichick
RE: Smith's 2014 Falcons were last in the NFL in defense  
Andy in Boston : 1/12/2016 10:40 am : link
In comment 12759888 shyster said:
Quote:
If you're supposed to be a defensive coach and you wind up with the worst defense in the league, what are you bringing to the table? I have to think that is a big reason Smith is not getting a lot of interviews.

After replacing Fewell with Spags (who had a 32nd ranked defense on his resume and repeated the feat here in 2015) we're going to replace Spags with another coach whose most recent credential is a 32nd ranked D?

I know the Giants value continuity, but really.


their talent in 2014 sucked. They were relying on Osi Umenyiora and Cory Beirman for a pass rush.
RE: Are we really getting any chatter though?  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/12/2016 10:42 am : link
In comment 12759850 jcn56 said:
Quote:
We're hearing the Giants are interested in this guy or that one - but that's about it.

Kudos to the Giants - where there used to be one giant (pun intended) leak in the back of the building where all the information poured out of, they seem to be pretty sealed shut now. The unfortunate side effect of that is people taking that to mean that they don't know what they're doing.


Any idea who that was? The leak, I mean
Looking at the NYC papers and some radio  
Dinger : 1/12/2016 10:42 am : link
it seems the Giants are going to hire back Coughlin. Two articles saying he's the best coach available and Boomer and Carton pushing the idea. Could you imagine the circus that would ensue?

1Saban
2Smith
3McAdoo
4Spags

I truly believe they need an defensive background coach. Obviously if the right candidate came up I'd be all for an Offensive minded coach who hires an AWESOME DC. Holmgren with McAdoo OC and Smith DC?
No one's arguing that Smith Falcon's in 2013 & 2014  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/12/2016 10:44 am : link
were to his credit -- I think his team's were pretty good in the prior 5 years with 2 13 win seasons -- and I also think his winning curve and then dwindling success mirror's Coughlin's in Jacksonville -- as other's have noted

Hey -- if he comes on strong with the Giants in the beginning and we can get a Superbowl out of him -- he will be well worth having
btw -- at this point I'd also assert that you can forget about  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/12/2016 10:47 am : link
Cowher
Gruden
Bellicheck

those are fantasy football wishes

Mike Smith hits on all the things Mara said the Giant's valued
RE: Looking at the NYC papers and some radio  
Boy Cord : 1/12/2016 10:47 am : link
In comment 12759915 Dinger said:
Quote:
it seems the Giants are going to hire back Coughlin. Two articles saying he's the best coach available and Boomer and Carton pushing the idea. Could you imagine the circus that would ensue?

1Saban
2Smith
3McAdoo
4Spags

I truly believe they need an defensive background coach. Obviously if the right candidate came up I'd be all for an Offensive minded coach who hires an AWESOME DC. Holmgren with McAdoo OC and Smith DC?


As the old saying goes, you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

and you know what  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/12/2016 10:48 am : link
I love Coughlin -- but now that ship has sailed boys -- you better get used to that idea
RE: Mike Smith's Atlanta Falcons  
bigbluescot : 1/12/2016 10:51 am : link
In comment 12759871 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
made so many bone headed decisions IDK how fans could consider him.

He was atrocious in that playoff game against the Giants. No both 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 he gave away where the play was going.

Empty set backfield and only a QB. It was obvious the call was a QB keeper

One back and no receiver - it's obvious the play wasn't a pass

No way i want to watch coaching blunders and Mike Smith

Pass


I doubt Mike Smith actually called those plays, he's primarily a coach on the defensive side of the ball . He'll have said go for it but keep it on the ground. It'll have been the OC who called the actual play I'd imagine.
RE: Smith, x10  
ZogZerg : 1/12/2016 11:15 am : link
In comment 12759825 jcn56 said:
Quote:
If he's actually willing to be DC, I'd run to the nearest fax machine and get his contract over to the league. Put McAdoo in the top spot, make Smith responsible for the defense, he'll have someone to lean on and hopefully turn around that D.

Marrone - aside from physical comparisons made to Parcells, I don't know what the interest there is.


^^ Agree completely with this and with the thread starter.
RE: Most of that seems to be speculation by beat writers  
Jon : 1/12/2016 11:27 am : link
In comment 12759866 jcn56 said:
Quote:

Ranaan, for example - who is pretty plugged in - mentioned a surprised candidate and said Marrone was highly regarded, and we haven't heard much from him in awhile.

I think the Giants are keeping their cards close to the vest on this one.


Ranaan has since said that was purely his speculation and not based on any inside info.
RE: Smith, x10  
HoustonGiant : 1/12/2016 12:16 pm : link
In comment 12759825 jcn56 said:
Quote:
If he's actually willing to be DC, I'd run to the nearest fax machine and get his contract over to the league. Put McAdoo in the top spot, make Smith responsible for the defense, he'll have someone to lean on and hopefully turn around that D.

Marrone - aside from physical comparisons made to Parcells, I don't know what the interest there is.


You've stolen my thoughts.
If the Giants don't have a real plan, that's scary.  
Ivan15 : 1/12/2016 12:42 pm : link
There are a couple of coaches available with a lot of HC experience and fair to good success (Lovie Smith, Mike Smith).

There are a lot of guys with brief HC experience but limited or no success who are looking for redemption (Marrone,Jackson and Spags probably head this pretty long list and you know who they are).

There are up and coming coordinators with no HC experience.

Last time, a I recall, the second round of interviews consisted of guys from Groups 1 and 3 but I don't remember anyone from Group 2. So they didn't have a solid plan of who they wanted last time. Maybe they lucked into Coughlin or maybe they ignored the experience and still decided Coughlin was best.

I hope they don't rely on luck again. I still think some HC experience is important.
Marrone is a New York guy  
jeff57 : 1/12/2016 12:43 pm : link
And seems to fit the Giants mold.
I would want Smith over Marrone  
montanagiant : 1/12/2016 12:47 pm : link
He seems like a more X's and O's type guy
RE: Mike Smith's Atlanta Falcons  
Upstate_Giants_fan : 1/12/2016 12:54 pm : link
In comment 12759871 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
made so many bone headed decisions IDK how fans could consider him.

He was atrocious in that playoff game against the Giants. No both 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 he gave away where the play was going.

Empty set backfield and only a QB. It was obvious the call was a QB keeper

One back and no receiver - it's obvious the play wasn't a pass

No way i want to watch coaching blunders and Mike Smith

Pass


The Giants already know how to do this :(
Like I said...  
ThatLimerickGuy : 1/12/2016 1:23 pm : link
Smith's visit didn't go great.

Nothing happened but it just didn't really click.
thanks for the info  
DCPollaro : 1/12/2016 1:27 pm : link
Limireck
No real evidence behind this  
rocco8112 : 1/12/2016 1:36 pm : link
but I never feared the Smith Falcons. We obliterated them in 2011 and every time the Giants played, regardless of their record I viewed them as a paper tiger.

They did destroy the Giants in 2012 and go on to the Final Four, but I do not remember the Smith Falcons as some type of juggernaut.
RE: Mike Smith's Atlanta Falcons  
Pascal4554 : 1/12/2016 1:41 pm : link
In comment 12759871 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
made so many bone headed decisions IDK how fans could consider him.

He was atrocious in that playoff game against the Giants. No both 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 he gave away where the play was going.

Empty set backfield and only a QB. It was obvious the call was a QB keeper

One back and no receiver - it's obvious the play wasn't a pass

No way i want to watch coaching blunders and Mike Smith

Pass


So one bad play call undoes 5 years of success in Atlanta? Being a coach is a lot more then just the X's & O's. These guys are leaders of their organizations. Don't ask me why, but I started reading Mike Smith's book and he is very open about what went wrong the last two years in Atlanta and what he learned from it. Not sure if he will be our coach...but I'm impressed with him...
Smith is a respectable DC  
JonC : 1/12/2016 1:43 pm : link
The Falcons defenses are built for indoors on turf, they're small and speedy and need to be aided by an offense that can control the ball, not unlike those Colts teams under Peyton. But, teams with more size and strength can smack them down and force them to play from behind.
I should have wrote  
Pascal4554 : 1/12/2016 1:44 pm : link
being a head coach is a lot more than just the X's and O's these guys are like the CEO of their respective teams.
jcn again on target  
JonC : 1/12/2016 1:48 pm : link
in heeyar.
No way  
AnishPatel : 1/12/2016 1:53 pm : link
For Coach.Smith!! I dont want anything to do with him being associated with this team
RE: No way  
Pascal4554 : 1/12/2016 2:02 pm : link
In comment 12760427 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
For Coach.Smith!! I dont want anything to do with him being associated with this team


Why? Just curious. Seems like he had some success in Atlanta. Although, it seems odd that he was out of coaching last year...
RE: RE: No way  
Jon : 1/12/2016 2:08 pm : link
In comment 12760446 Pascal4554 said:
Quote:
In comment 12760427 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


For Coach.Smith!! I dont want anything to do with him being associated with this team



Why? Just curious. Seems like he had some success in Atlanta. Although, it seems odd that he was out of coaching last year...


Anish has some personal history with Coach Smith.
And jcn...  
ThatLimerickGuy : 1/12/2016 2:09 pm : link
I have also heard the buzz about there being a BIG candidate in the mix. I actually had heard that it was all but done and was going to be announced soon. I thought it would be today but didn't factor in the league meetings.

I think the situation is just so fluid that what is true yesterday might be old news by today. Coaches are human beings with families, changes of heart, and all have trusted advisers who guide them.

I HOPE that the Giants are just setting up their coaching search similarly to how they would set up a draft board.

It's ok if you don't get option A if he doesn't want the job but you better be getting B or C.





RE: RE: RE: No way  
Pascal4554 : 1/12/2016 2:18 pm : link
In comment 12760456 Jon said:
Quote:
In comment 12760446 Pascal4554 said:


Quote:
In comment 12760427 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

For Coach.Smith!! I dont want anything to do with him being associated with this team

Why? Just curious. Seems like he had some success in Atlanta. Although, it seems odd that he was out of coaching last year...

Anish has some personal history with Coach Smith.


Ahh...gotcha
RE: RE: No way  
AnishPatel : 1/12/2016 2:53 pm : link
In comment 12760446 Pascal4554 said:
Quote:
In comment 12760427 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


For Coach.Smith!! I dont want anything to do with him being associated with this team



Why? Just curious. Seems like he had some success in Atlanta. Although, it seems odd that he was out of coaching last year...



Yes, Jon is correct. I did some work for him when he was in Atlanta and I got screwed over. So, I am not a fan of his. I was happy when we beat him twice, once during the regular season and other in the playoffs. Last ththing I want is for him to be here in NY.
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