DE Malik Jackson
DE Olivier Vernon
CB Janoris Jenkins
CB Sean Smith
FS Eric Berry
FS Tashaun Gipson
MIKE Vinny Rey
MIKE Kelvin Sheppard
Sign one guy for each position and then double up at DE and CB in the first two rounds of the draft. DE Ogbah/CB White or CB Hargreaves/DE Calhoun. That's what's called a defensive rebuild.
We had all better be praying this is not list that JR and McAdoo are using because no one on this list will more than likely ever be a Giant. Norman would be a clash with OBJ and can't see them doing that plus is he really that special. Berry is great but cancer has never met a man it can't defeat can we risk that? Miller and Wilkerson will probably never even see FA and will cost way to much for one player. The Sue results helped prove without a doubt one man does not a defense make. Irving is talented but does he fit our defense and will be 28 this year.
Here comes the wild card JPP but will he sign a performance based contract once again I don't think that's likely. He did a lot of what Osi did for use in the past but did not get the sacks for getting near the QB. Sometimes it's just best to say good luck and just move on no one is at fault stuff happens. This is not the list the Giant's should be looking at they need to be looking for young players with upside that are close to making a name for themselves in the NFL. We don't need vet's we need non injured young players who are seeking a chance become special players.
The way this FA class is looking maybe there will only be a few worthy of signing we just don't want to spend money just to spend money on overpriced FA's. JR and McAdoo have a real chance to build a new roster which suits them, however they will need to say restructure or goodbye to many vet players. Now is the time to really use the term next man up and we don't mean next old man at all.
How soon will we see the direction this team is headed in the future is exciting. The past team believed they were close to playoff caliber which was proven false numerous times this is really a new beginning.
Dragon you're not rebuilding this dumpster fire defensive roster...
the Giants were switching to a 3-4 by all means go after Irvin. There is no way Miller leaves Denver.
Tomba Hali has to be a target, and Weddle, or Berry.
and not a good enough two-way player to warrant his UFA cost especially at OLB.
Wolfe is a 3-4 player, which means 4-3 DT.
Sign Curry and look for a cheaper ascending talent at DT is much more likely (eg, Wilkerson will cost much more than I'd expect NYG to offer). I don't see them spending big on a FS unless Berry somehow isn't tagged by KC.
Janoris Jenkins came into the league with a lot of red flags, has he cleared those up?
While the have found a few diamonds, most have been turds and it reflects on this roster. That said they don't need four superstars, but some good and very good players
Use the extra cap space and get good talent in here. The defense needs a facelift and it's the quickest way. Draft is the way to build teams, however, this team needs some major infusion of talent on D first. I'm seeing at least 4 new starters on D this year, at a minimum. Shot in the dark,mom course, but there's going to be a whole new D on the field IMO. That would be about 33% of the starting D.
...that has had a clean track record for four years as a pro?
I'm conservative with cap resources. I'm against investing in players with injury questions. I'm against gambling on proven head cases.
Some risk exists with every player. This one seems acceptably minor to me. For the purposes of BBI amateur football talk Jenkins has proven to be essentially a 'clean' player imo.
In 2014 and nothing improved. How can anybody expect differently now? Just because his ass is on the line doesn't mean his brain just got smart.
The 2014 "spree" won't come close to this years. You basically had 1 top tier FA (DRC) a couple of role players (Ayers - exceeded expectations, Thurmond - injured) and the rest were depth/camp fodder (Demps/Bowman).
They should get at least 2-3 DRC-level players this season and probably 2-3 more Ayers-level guys (more if they miss on the top tier guys).
...and I answered that he's been clean since entering the league. Your response indicated that may not be enough for you given your 'low tolerance for risk with UFA dollars'.
In 2014 and nothing improved. How can anybody expect differently now? Just because his ass is on the line doesn't mean his brain just got smart.
He did?
Zach Bowman
Walter Thurmond
Jameel McClain
Quintin Demps
DRC
Robert Ayers
I don't really consider that a shopping spree. There is only one big name on there in DRC. Robert Ayers isn't really anything special. The rest are backups.
And I still have no clue why Jameel McClain was released last year. Could've used him too.
even DRC signed for less than the open market figured to provide.
Figure to see a few of those this offseason as well, but they need an ascending pass rusher at DE, a CB, FS, and MIKE.
They'll two DE/CB if JPP and Prince depart, and still need a slot CB and I'd rather upgrade away from Ayers to a better two-way player.
Mostly agree. I'd add a DT to your list since Hankins is returning from injury and Bromley is currently the other starting DT. Need to upgrade from Jenkins/Kuhn.
CB - I think it's Prince or a tier 1/2 CB (Jenkins, Smith, etc) plus a slot CB. Not Prince + starting CB + slot (apologies if I misinterpreted your post here). Luckily CB looks pretty deep even if Norman & Hall are tagged.
DE - agree it's JPP and another starting caliber DE (need to upgrade Ayers who can't stay healthy either). Or 2 starting caliber DEs. JPP on a 1-2 year deal + a Curry level guy might be ideal. Then draft a DE in rds 1-2 with the intention of Curry/Owa/rookie headlining the position in 2017/18 when JPP leaves.
it really seems a pipe dream to get the kind of linesmen
about letting a guy like Prince walk. He's probably just as likely to get hurt or not get hurt next season as any mnay other guys. And his injuries have been more nagging than chronic. He may not get completely insane money on the open market. Guys like Prince can start to stay healthy. I'd keep him if it all possible. Adding an outside guy to replace him is a crapshoot and will cost even more than Prince. PRince is a good player lets not lose sight of that.
JPP is another guy i'd think long and hard about bringing back. You want to add to the DL not subtract and replace. Another guy that might not get as much money on the open market due to an injury. If the Giants feel good about the glove thing next season and JPP can actually heal, why not bring him back? He plays more often than not and if he can get back a little more with rest and therapy he's a damn good player.
If we can add a body or two to the DL and DBs while keeping Prince, JPP and Ayers--add one vet LB, this D will be dramatically better in 2016. There are some keepers in there can't lose sight of that despite the shitty year.
I won't lose sleep if they replaced Prince but it might not be necessary.
I remember many young players here suffering from the nagging injury only to round into form right around year 3-4-5. Prince could be another one of those guys. Some guys just need time to completely adapt to the NFL game and maybe a little luck. I could be wrong, maybe Prince misses time every year and isn't a wise investment but I would bring him back if the deal sounds right.
If he was suffering torn ligaments every year that would be one thing.
...in terms of injury reliability. That's been the albatross around this teams neck for years. The solution is exercising discipline in realizing that a 'bargain' for non-durable players is an illusion that you pay for in other areas...namely wins and losses.
He's plenty talented enough to assume some risk on, just not at the open market dollars he was drooling over last Spring.
Yup, definitely sounded like he would be looking for a Maxwell-level contract. Even if he's healthy I'm passing on that.
Now, if he's willing to sign for similar money to DRC, then I'm interested. That might even leave enough money to also add a Janoris Jenkins/Sean Smith type CB instead of a lower level "slot CB".
both would improve our toughness at the POA immeasurably and I expect both may be available since their respective teams will have to spend big retaining pro bowlers at those positions (Von Miller & Wilkerson).
Harrison has started 16 games each of the past 3 years in a row and both guys should have at least 3 years of their primes remaining.
At the LB level Devonta Davis, Travathon, and Sean Spence are the 3 names that jump out because they play sideline to sideline and are also 25/26 years old.
Olivier Vernon is the most appealing pure edge rusher on the market. He'd probably be the #1 defensive target among guys who aren't likely to get tagged.
A player that has come into the league and been a solid citizen for four years isn't much of a 'risk'.
Especially when compared to Prince who has started only 45 of the past 64 games and been hampered by injury in any number of those. That's just shy of 30%.
for a guy that had a drug issue and got cleaned up, in exchange for how they saved Will the Thrill by having him get away from his friends nearby and a chance to clean himself up in Baltimore.
Wasnt JJ way up on the Giants board until he got busted, which IIRC was very close to the draft?
for a guy that had a drug issue and got cleaned up, in exchange for how they saved Will the Thrill by having him get away from his friends nearby and a chance to clean himself up in Baltimore.
Wasnt JJ way up on the Giants board until he got busted, which IIRC was very close to the draft?
he has to be very aggressive in FA. If there's someone they want, they will need to get him in extremely quick, because other teams have been known to beat us to the punch.
Simms11 they don't so much 'beat us to the punch'...
...as punch them harder in the wallet. It should be a different ballgame this time around. We have the financial flexibility in the form of $50m+ in cap space to attract upper echelon free agents.
he has to be very aggressive in FA. If there's someone they want, they will need to get him in extremely quick, because other teams have been known to beat us to the punch.
I couldn't agree more with this, every year we go into free agency and then wait too long to take the guy we want and then have some other team sign him ahead of us, it happens all the time, Reese just sits on his hands too long..
that's better than tearing a knee but he still isn't a no-brainer.
I believe Derek Wolfe also signed a 4 year extension.
The Giants need to bring in at least 2 pass rushers and bring in some game changers. Filling the roster with 3-6 average or decent players won't cover up the lack of talent or depth. The defense is so bad IMO that they actually need to take a risky position and lean on a guy like Miller heavily.
We sign a bunch of mid tier free agents and this defense is ranked bottom 10 again. No matter what they do this defense will have someone with the talent level of Unga playing significant time.
in free agency is to get someone who is young, end of first contract, who may not have had a chance to make a name for themselves (= demand big $$$). One guy who is a bit intriguing is Nigel Bradham from Buffalo.
DE Olivier Vernon
CB Janoris Jenkins
CB Sean Smith
FS Eric Berry
FS Tashaun Gipson
MIKE Vinny Rey
MIKE Kelvin Sheppard
Sign one guy for each position and then double up at DE and CB in the first two rounds of the draft. DE Ogbah/CB White or CB Hargreaves/DE Calhoun. That's what's called a defensive rebuild.
Here comes the wild card JPP but will he sign a performance based contract once again I don't think that's likely. He did a lot of what Osi did for use in the past but did not get the sacks for getting near the QB. Sometimes it's just best to say good luck and just move on no one is at fault stuff happens. This is not the list the Giant's should be looking at they need to be looking for young players with upside that are close to making a name for themselves in the NFL. We don't need vet's we need non injured young players who are seeking a chance become special players.
The way this FA class is looking maybe there will only be a few worthy of signing we just don't want to spend money just to spend money on overpriced FA's. JR and McAdoo have a real chance to build a new roster which suits them, however they will need to say restructure or goodbye to many vet players. Now is the time to really use the term next man up and we don't mean next old man at all.
How soon will we see the direction this team is headed in the future is exciting. The past team believed they were close to playoff caliber which was proven false numerous times this is really a new beginning.
It's going to take an aggressive, inventive use of both Free Agency and the draft to upgrade the talent enough to turn this unit around
Tomba Hali has to be a target, and Weddle, or Berry.
He should be cheap but can't play till November.
More often than not when you go bargain hunting you get what you pay for.
This defense needs reliable and productive players. We have the cap room to sign some. Use it.
Quote:
You guys are setting yourselves up for heartbreak.
DE - Vinny Curry, Malik Jackson
FS - Gipson
LB - Vinny Rey
and maybe some other guys named Vinny.
Jets have less $ and a bunch of needs with a logjam at DT. Wilkerson will need mucho bucks to stay unless the franchise him.
Jets are irrelevant.
The Giants aren't going to spend mucho bucks on him imo. More likely they target a DE, as Wilkerson would play DT here.
Wolfe is a 3-4 player, which means 4-3 DT.
Sign Curry and look for a cheaper ascending talent at DT is much more likely (eg, Wilkerson will cost much more than I'd expect NYG to offer). I don't see them spending big on a FS unless Berry somehow isn't tagged by KC.
Janoris Jenkins came into the league with a lot of red flags, has he cleared those up?
Has/Would Spags go with a 3-4 defense?
I'm conservative with cap resources. I'm against investing in players with injury questions. I'm against gambling on proven head cases.
Some risk exists with every player. This one seems acceptably minor to me. For the purposes of BBI amateur football talk Jenkins has proven to be essentially a 'clean' player imo.
Has/Would Spags go with a 3-4 defense?
I think he wants to play more hybrid schemes. That said, Wilkerson can play either scheme.
The 2014 "spree" won't come close to this years. You basically had 1 top tier FA (DRC) a couple of role players (Ayers - exceeded expectations, Thurmond - injured) and the rest were depth/camp fodder (Demps/Bowman).
They should get at least 2-3 DRC-level players this season and probably 2-3 more Ayers-level guys (more if they miss on the top tier guys).
I expanded on my thoughts about the player.
He did?
Zach Bowman
Walter Thurmond
Jameel McClain
Quintin Demps
DRC
Robert Ayers
I don't really consider that a shopping spree. There is only one big name on there in DRC. Robert Ayers isn't really anything special. The rest are backups.
And I still have no clue why Jameel McClain was released last year. Could've used him too.
Figure to see a few of those this offseason as well, but they need an ascending pass rusher at DE, a CB, FS, and MIKE.
They'll two DE/CB if JPP and Prince depart, and still need a slot CB and I'd rather upgrade away from Ayers to a better two-way player.
I say 2 or 3, interior, exterior
Figure to see a few of those this offseason as well, but they need an ascending pass rusher at DE, a CB, FS, and MIKE.
They'll two DE/CB if JPP and Prince depart, and still need a slot CB and I'd rather upgrade away from Ayers to a better two-way player.
Mostly agree. I'd add a DT to your list since Hankins is returning from injury and Bromley is currently the other starting DT. Need to upgrade from Jenkins/Kuhn.
CB - I think it's Prince or a tier 1/2 CB (Jenkins, Smith, etc) plus a slot CB. Not Prince + starting CB + slot (apologies if I misinterpreted your post here). Luckily CB looks pretty deep even if Norman & Hall are tagged.
DE - agree it's JPP and another starting caliber DE (need to upgrade Ayers who can't stay healthy either). Or 2 starting caliber DEs. JPP on a 1-2 year deal + a Curry level guy might be ideal. Then draft a DE in rds 1-2 with the intention of Curry/Owa/rookie headlining the position in 2017/18 when JPP leaves.
put that another way, D centric fans need to have their day in the draft
JPP is another guy i'd think long and hard about bringing back. You want to add to the DL not subtract and replace. Another guy that might not get as much money on the open market due to an injury. If the Giants feel good about the glove thing next season and JPP can actually heal, why not bring him back? He plays more often than not and if he can get back a little more with rest and therapy he's a damn good player.
If we can add a body or two to the DL and DBs while keeping Prince, JPP and Ayers--add one vet LB, this D will be dramatically better in 2016. There are some keepers in there can't lose sight of that despite the shitty year.
I won't lose sleep if they replaced Prince but it might not be necessary.
If he was suffering torn ligaments every year that would be one thing.
Agree
Yup, definitely sounded like he would be looking for a Maxwell-level contract. Even if he's healthy I'm passing on that.
Now, if he's willing to sign for similar money to DRC, then I'm interested. That might even leave enough money to also add a Janoris Jenkins/Sean Smith type CB instead of a lower level "slot CB".
Harrison has started 16 games each of the past 3 years in a row and both guys should have at least 3 years of their primes remaining.
At the LB level Devonta Davis, Travathon, and Sean Spence are the 3 names that jump out because they play sideline to sideline and are also 25/26 years old.
Olivier Vernon is the most appealing pure edge rusher on the market. He'd probably be the #1 defensive target among guys who aren't likely to get tagged.
Especially when compared to Prince who has started only 45 of the past 64 games and been hampered by injury in any number of those. That's just shy of 30%.
Wasnt JJ way up on the Giants board until he got busted, which IIRC was very close to the draft?
Wasnt JJ way up on the Giants board until he got busted, which IIRC was very close to the draft?
I'd sign JPP reasonably & switch him to LDE.
Quote:
Curry @ DE, Wilkerson @ DT, Irvin @ LB. Bring back Ayers. Not sure what to do with JPP.
I'd sign JPP reasonably & switch him to LDE.
I guess we will have to see what Reese and JPP can agree on. Incentive laden contract is the only way to go.
I believe Derek Wolfe also signed a 4 year extension.
The Giants need to bring in at least 2 pass rushers and bring in some game changers. Filling the roster with 3-6 average or decent players won't cover up the lack of talent or depth. The defense is so bad IMO that they actually need to take a risky position and lean on a guy like Miller heavily.
We sign a bunch of mid tier free agents and this defense is ranked bottom 10 again. No matter what they do this defense will have someone with the talent level of Unga playing significant time.
A DT at that price point is a "nice to have", even $50M in cap space will run out quickly if you spend like a drunken sailor.