Defensive Side-2016 Free agents

To those who want Bruce Irvin, where would you play him?

He is not a rangy player or an elite pass rusher. Bennett and Avril are much better rushers. And he is suspect against the run on the line. So do you play him in that hybrid SLB spot? Giants have experimented with those and never really had success. The system isn't a fit for a guy like that, much less a guy you want to pay big dollars for. Let him go to OAK, JAX, or ATL to his old coordinators.

Do you try to nab Mario Williams on a 2 year deal? Gipson or Berry at Safety is needed. Swing and too many misses last year for Jerry at that spot.

And they need a MLB somewhere. Brinkley isn't bad but not ideal. Kennard is what you want from Irvin but he is oft-injured. He needs tp step up.

I would try to retain JPP if we can get Mario Williams. I would also like to pair Reggie Nelson with Collins. Obviously Eric Berry would be at the top of my list if he checks put medically but I don't believe he will hit FA. I would also like to resign Ayers. If we go into the season with Mario Williams, JPP, Ayers, Odi, and Hankins then I am very happy. I think JPP needs to be the second best DE on the team because of his hand injury. We need someone else to take the pressure off of him. This would also allow a great rotation to get pressure. We can use the draft to bolster LB and CB which seems to be somewhat solid this year. But this wouldn't stop me from drafting another young pass rusher if that was the BPA. I would also bring in another vet LB along with a vet corner.

This may not be popular but I would like to bring Brinkley back. I wouldn't guarantee him anything but he did some good things last year. I would like to draft a badass in the middle so those two can compete for the MLB position.

safety. It's a must. Can't draft a S in the second or third round and just say they're gonna pair him with Collins. They need a good, experienced player.

Both young and with Odi can be 3 young pass rushers for the next 3 or 4 years. They won't be cheap but I don't think they'll break the bank like they were expecting JPP would have.

In comment 12768180 robbieballs2003 said:

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I would try to retain JPP if we can get Mario Williams. I would also like to pair Reggie Nelson with Collins. Obviously Eric Berry would be at the top of my list if he checks put medically but I don't believe he will hit FA. I would also like to resign Ayers. If we go into the season with Mario Williams, JPP, Ayers, Odi, and Hankins then I am very happy. I think JPP needs to be the second best DE on the team because of his hand injury. We need someone else to take the pressure off of him. This would also allow a great rotation to get pressure. We can use the draft to bolster LB and CB which seems to be somewhat solid this year. But this wouldn't stop me from drafting another young pass rusher if that was the BPA. I would also bring in another vet LB along with a vet corner. This may not be popular but I would like to bring Brinkley back. I wouldn't guarantee him anything but he did some good things last year. I would like to draft a badass in the middle so those two can compete for the MLB position.

Absolutely bring Brinkley back. At worst a very solid back-up..We need quality depth behind quality starters..

Ayers is a must signing imv and we should offer a reasonable contract..He won't break the bank elsewhere..

I'd spend huge on Von Miller who is a disruptive talent this D so sorely needs..Scheme doesn't matter when you have this kind of talent..

Let JPP walk and pursue Vin Curry..

Curry @ DE, Wilkerson @ DT, Irvin @ LB. Bring back Ayers. Not sure what to do with JPP.

In comment 12768217 Rjanyg said:

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Curry @ DE, Wilkerson @ DT, Irvin @ LB. Bring back Ayers. Not sure what to do with JPP.

I could live with this

You guys are setting yourselves up for heartbreak.

DE - Vinny Curry, Malik Jackson
FS - Gipson
LB - Vinny Rey

and maybe some other guys named Vinny.

Spags made the comment that the defense would have benefited had Brinkley started the season with the team, it took a while for him to get acclimated to the system. He might be their starting MLB next year - they could do a lot worse.

I just know what to think about the prognosis for JPP's hand.
Maybe they should take a shot at a guy like Curry. Ayers played well towards the end of the year but always struggles to stay healthy and he's 31.

Not sure what went wrong this year but Wynn's game definitely took a step backwards.

In comment 12768224 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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You guys are setting yourselves up for heartbreak. DE - Vinny Curry, Malik Jackson FS - Gipson LB - Vinny Rey and maybe some other guys named Vinny.

Jets have less $ and a bunch of needs with a logjam at DT. Wilkerson will need mucho bucks to stay unless the franchise him.

DE Olivier Vernon is my #1 target. I'd take him over JPP.

DE Vinny Curry

FS Tashaun Gipson

DT Damon "Snacks" Harrison

LB Danny Trevathan

LB Vincent Rey


And I'd keep Prince

but I want Wilkerson and I think it'll be hard for the Jets to tag him. JPP-Hankins-Bromley?-Wilkerson could be dominant against the run. If you can also grab a Vinny Curry, then you slide Wilkerson inside on passing downs and just wreak havoc on OLs.

S - I doubt Berry hits the open market. Gipson would be my 2nd choice due to age, but I wouldn't mind Reggie Nelson or Weddle as a fallback. Get 2-3 years from them while developing Collins and bringing along Behre/Thompson/mid-rd pick as the 3rd safety.

CB - Replace Prince with Janoris Jenkins or Sean Smith and grab a nickel DB.

LB - Brandon Marhsall (RFA) or Danny Trevathan (UFA) from the Broncos should be targeted. Even with a Manning retirement it'll be hard for them to re-sign these two + Von Miller + Osweiler + Malik Jackson (another possible Giants target) + Hillman + CJ Anderson...

Good player

On one side of the ball. There are some very talented o-linemen including osemele, brooks, Boone, Glenn that could allow us to go heavy on defense in the draft

Has a nice FA page that let's you sort by team. You can look for teams that have: 1) lots of FAs making it likely they can't re-sign everyone (e.g. Pitt), 2) several high end FAs that will command big $$ (e.g. CIN), or 3) both (Den).

Some targets from the above teams:
Pitt
Mike Adams - if they move on from Beatty, they can probably get Adams using the cap savings. 26 in March, solid RT.
Ramon Foster - just turned 30 so he'd be more of a stop gap, but can slide him or Pugh to RG.

Denver
Von Miller - likely tagged
Brandon Marshall - RFA
Danny Trevathan - rangy MLB
Malik Jackson - slide in at DT next to Hankins would give them a nice rotation with Bromley the 3rd guy.

Cin
Leon Hall - I'd be surprised if he hits the open market, but would be an upgrade over Prince
Reggie Nelson - won't break the bank and could give you a solid 2-3 years at FS next to Collins while you develop/look for a longer term replacement
Andre Smith - one of the top RTs on the market
Mohamed Sanu - solid slot WR, good YAC guy
Marvin Jones - good #2 WR that can stretch the field

DE Malik Jackson
DE Olivier Vernon
CB Janoris Jenkins
CB Sean Smith
FS Eric Berry
FS Tashaun Gipson
MIKE Vinny Rey
MIKE Kelvin Sheppard

Sign one guy for each position and then double up at DE and CB in the first two rounds of the draft. DE Ogbah/CB White or CB Hargreaves/DE Calhoun. That's what's called a defensive rebuild.

We had all better be praying this is not list that JR and McAdoo are using because no one on this list will more than likely ever be a Giant. Norman would be a clash with OBJ and can't see them doing that plus is he really that special. Berry is great but cancer has never met a man it can't defeat can we risk that? Miller and Wilkerson will probably never even see FA and will cost way to much for one player. The Sue results helped prove without a doubt one man does not a defense make. Irving is talented but does he fit our defense and will be 28 this year.

Here comes the wild card JPP but will he sign a performance based contract once again I don't think that's likely. He did a lot of what Osi did for use in the past but did not get the sacks for getting near the QB. Sometimes it's just best to say good luck and just move on no one is at fault stuff happens. This is not the list the Giant's should be looking at they need to be looking for young players with upside that are close to making a name for themselves in the NFL. We don't need vet's we need non injured young players who are seeking a chance become special players.

The way this FA class is looking maybe there will only be a few worthy of signing we just don't want to spend money just to spend money on overpriced FA's. JR and McAdoo have a real chance to build a new roster which suits them, however they will need to say restructure or goodbye to many vet players. Now is the time to really use the term next man up and we don't mean next old man at all.

How soon will we see the direction this team is headed in the future is exciting. The past team believed they were close to playoff caliber which was proven false numerous times this is really a new beginning.

...using a 'next man up' philosophy. The talent isn't there to fill the positional gaps. Period.

It's going to take an aggressive, inventive use of both Free Agency and the draft to upgrade the talent enough to turn this unit around

the Giants were switching to a 3-4 by all means go after Irvin. There is no way Miller leaves Denver.
Tomba Hali has to be a target, and Weddle, or Berry.

see how Aldon Smith is and what he'd be interested contract wise?

He should be cheap but can't play till November.

...and the injury cases like Prince and Trevathan.

More often than not when you go bargain hunting you get what you pay for.

This defense needs reliable and productive players. We have the cap room to sign some. Use it.

In comment 12768229 Rjanyg said:

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In comment 12768224 LakeGeorgeGiant said: Quote: You guys are setting yourselves up for heartbreak. DE - Vinny Curry, Malik Jackson FS - Gipson LB - Vinny Rey and maybe some other guys named Vinny. Jets have less $ and a bunch of needs with a logjam at DT. Wilkerson will need mucho bucks to stay unless the franchise him.

Jets are irrelevant.

The Giants aren't going to spend mucho bucks on him imo. More likely they target a DE, as Wilkerson would play DT here.

and not a good enough two-way player to warrant his UFA cost especially at OLB.

Wolfe is a 3-4 player, which means 4-3 DT.

Sign Curry and look for a cheaper ascending talent at DT is much more likely (eg, Wilkerson will cost much more than I'd expect NYG to offer). I don't see them spending big on a FS unless Berry somehow isn't tagged by KC.

Janoris Jenkins came into the league with a lot of red flags, has he cleared those up?

...Jenkins has been clean since entering the league. Don't we have to move on from a scouting report that is 5 years outdated?

mine isn't very high when talking UFA dollars.

While the have found a few diamonds, most have been turds and it reflects on this roster. That said they don't need four superstars, but some good and very good players

He feels that they will keep both Harrison and Wilkerson. I also wouldn't mind Wilkerson on the Giants.

Has/Would Spags go with a 3-4 defense?

because they haven't had cap space. That should change this offseason.

Use the extra cap space and get good talent in here. The defense needs a facelift and it's the quickest way. Draft is the way to build teams, however, this team needs some major infusion of talent on D first. I'm seeing at least 4 new starters on D this year, at a minimum. Shot in the dark,mom course, but there's going to be a whole new D on the field IMO. That would be about 33% of the starting D.

...that has had a clean track record for four years as a pro?

I'm conservative with cap resources. I'm against investing in players with injury questions. I'm against gambling on proven head cases.

Some risk exists with every player. This one seems acceptably minor to me. For the purposes of BBI amateur football talk Jenkins has proven to be essentially a 'clean' player imo.

In comment 12768537 Drewcon40 said:

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He feels that they will keep both Harrison and Wilkerson. I also wouldn't mind Wilkerson on the Giants. Has/Would Spags go with a 3-4 defense?

I think he wants to play more hybrid schemes. That said, Wilkerson can play either scheme.

The Eagles will work hard to resign him as reports suggest they want to move to a 4-3.

thus the question I asked, I made no other statement regarding him.

In 2014 and nothing improved. How can anybody expect differently now? Just because his ass is on the line doesn't mean his brain just got smart.

In comment 12768576 silverfox said:

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In 2014 and nothing improved. How can anybody expect differently now? Just because his ass is on the line doesn't mean his brain just got smart.

The 2014 "spree" won't come close to this years. You basically had 1 top tier FA (DRC) a couple of role players (Ayers - exceeded expectations, Thurmond - injured) and the rest were depth/camp fodder (Demps/Bowman).

They should get at least 2-3 DRC-level players this season and probably 2-3 more Ayers-level guys (more if they miss on the top tier guys).

...and I answered that he's been clean since entering the league. Your response indicated that may not be enough for you given your 'low tolerance for risk with UFA dollars'.

I expanded on my thoughts about the player.

In comment 12768576 silverfox said:

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In 2014 and nothing improved. How can anybody expect differently now? Just because his ass is on the line doesn't mean his brain just got smart.

He did?

Zach Bowman
Walter Thurmond
Jameel McClain
Quintin Demps
DRC
Robert Ayers

I don't really consider that a shopping spree. There is only one big name on there in DRC. Robert Ayers isn't really anything special. The rest are backups.

And I still have no clue why Jameel McClain was released last year. Could've used him too.

JT and Kennard are better suited to OLB. One could argue retaining McClain over Unga as the MIKE2, but ...

that changes the entire team radically improves the D playbook and makes the draft task very clear, 3 DLs and a LB.

Back to the drawing board.

even DRC signed for less than the open market figured to provide.

Figure to see a few of those this offseason as well, but they need an ascending pass rusher at DE, a CB, FS, and MIKE.

They'll two DE/CB if JPP and Prince depart, and still need a slot CB and I'd rather upgrade away from Ayers to a better two-way player.

and may have to draft one .

I say 2 or 3, interior, exterior

In comment 12768673 JonC said:

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even DRC signed for less than the open market figured to provide. Figure to see a few of those this offseason as well, but they need an ascending pass rusher at DE, a CB, FS, and MIKE. They'll two DE/CB if JPP and Prince depart, and still need a slot CB and I'd rather upgrade away from Ayers to a better two-way player.

Mostly agree. I'd add a DT to your list since Hankins is returning from injury and Bromley is currently the other starting DT. Need to upgrade from Jenkins/Kuhn.

CB - I think it's Prince or a tier 1/2 CB (Jenkins, Smith, etc) plus a slot CB. Not Prince + starting CB + slot (apologies if I misinterpreted your post here). Luckily CB looks pretty deep even if Norman & Hall are tagged.

DE - agree it's JPP and another starting caliber DE (need to upgrade Ayers who can't stay healthy either). Or 2 starting caliber DEs. JPP on a 1-2 year deal + a Curry level guy might be ideal. Then draft a DE in rds 1-2 with the intention of Curry/Owa/rookie headlining the position in 2017/18 when JPP leaves.

we need via free agency.

put that another way, D centric fans need to have their day in the draft

about letting a guy like Prince walk. He's probably just as likely to get hurt or not get hurt next season as any mnay other guys. And his injuries have been more nagging than chronic. He may not get completely insane money on the open market. Guys like Prince can start to stay healthy. I'd keep him if it all possible. Adding an outside guy to replace him is a crapshoot and will cost even more than Prince. PRince is a good player lets not lose sight of that.

JPP is another guy i'd think long and hard about bringing back. You want to add to the DL not subtract and replace. Another guy that might not get as much money on the open market due to an injury. If the Giants feel good about the glove thing next season and JPP can actually heal, why not bring him back? He plays more often than not and if he can get back a little more with rest and therapy he's a damn good player.

If we can add a body or two to the DL and DBs while keeping Prince, JPP and Ayers--add one vet LB, this D will be dramatically better in 2016. There are some keepers in there can't lose sight of that despite the shitty year.

I won't lose sleep if they replaced Prince but it might not be necessary.

I remember many young players here suffering from the nagging injury only to round into form right around year 3-4-5. Prince could be another one of those guys. Some guys just need time to completely adapt to the NFL game and maybe a little luck. I could be wrong, maybe Prince misses time every year and isn't a wise investment but I would bring him back if the deal sounds right.

If he was suffering torn ligaments every year that would be one thing.

Yes, Prince or plus a slot. I'm juggling posting with actual work at the moment.

In comment 12768518 JonC said:

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mine isn't very high when talking UFA dollars.

Agree

He's plenty talented enough to assume some risk on, just not at the open market dollars he was drooling over last Spring.

...in terms of injury reliability. That's been the albatross around this teams neck for years. The solution is exercising discipline in realizing that a 'bargain' for non-durable players is an illusion that you pay for in other areas...namely wins and losses.