Halfway thru the season already (crazy how time flies) and this team looks like it's beginning to take form. Despite the hiccup against the Nets they have been playing really good basketball, especially on the defensive end.
So from 20-21... what do you think their record will be at the end of the season?
Man you're more optimistic than I am lol
6 straight road games
@ Denver (altitude tends to be an issue)
@ Suns
@ Clippers
@ Lakers
@ Warriors
@ Wizards
Melo has to be healthy, of course.
It would be nice if they could find one more guard who can actually play.
The roughest stretch is probably about to begin
Utah
Clippers
@Hornets
OKC
@Toronto
Suns
Warriors
Unfortunately it doesn't seem like that will be the case.
I think Knicks finish, 44-38...
I think they trade for a PG at the deadline..
I see a lot of pontificating even from media sources about Knicks trades. Notably, it's national media/national blogger types. I think the odds of a trade to add a piece are very, very low. More likely is that if we stay in this range, Phil trades a piece off to recover a #1 pick next season, if someone is selling. I think Phil has a really good sense of the cap, what these guys are going to expect, and our limited options to add the pieces we need. IMO he should be the current frontrunner for executive of the year.
Oh then nevermind then i thought it was going to be lower, that is not a big deal then..
Knicks have 23 home, 18 road games left. Weighted SOS is .481. Celts have it a little easier at .471, CHA and WAS are basically where we are. ORL is .523, DET .505.
Link - ( New Window )
I think they trade for a PG at the deadline..
For who, and what is the trade? It's easy to say they trade for a PG because that seems to be an area of need, but it's a lot harder to put a trade together that makes sense.
We have few assets. I'd say our most desirable trade assets for a not "going for it" are Grant, Galloway, KOQ, and the 2018 #1. Most realistically it's Grant. None of them carry much salary. Make a trade for Jennings (who I hate but he's been mentioned) and you need to give Grant and Calderon or Grant + DWill or Grant + Serpahin + Lou to offset BJ's $8.4 million. Who else is available?
I agree with this. Too much trade talk here relative to the odds of something major happening. I mean, it's fun to talk but I think Deej has it right in terms of what Phil Jackson is thinking.
As to the record - I predicted .500 before the season started. A lot of people thought I was too optimistic, but it's gone pretty much as I hoped. That said, I'm not inclined to raise the prediction. Maybe to 43 wins instead of 41, but not much more than that.
If they ahd a draft pick i would agree with you but the rest of this team most likely gets built through free agency...
I agree dont just go throwing away picks but if you trade Calderon and say Williams or seraphin it is not going to kill your cap space next year because Calderon is 7 million next year...
I think the PGs they target are either JEnnings(free agent next year may be worth the risk) or eventually Lawson...
Those are the 2 PGs most likely to be dealt...
Who said you are giving up assets?
If you do say Calderon, Seraphin and Derrick Williams for Jennings, where are the assets? you are saving money for next year..
The trade helps you in the long run...
I never said giving up the team to get a PG..
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gets us one inch closer to winning a title. Because mentally I cant get there. Just seems like giving assets and potentially hurting chemistry on the hope of doing a little more to get the 8 seed, where we will get demolished by the Cavs.
Who said you are giving up assets?
If you do say Calderon, Seraphin and Derrick Williams for Jennings, where are the assets? you are saving money for next year..
The trade helps you in the long run...
I never said giving up the team to get a PG..
Calderon and Williams have positive value for 2016-17. We'll be very lucky if Williams opts back in at ~5 million. His kind of production would cost $15+ million on the open market (he may not get that because it's one year in an otherwise disappointing career). Calderon is a capable 3rd guard for $7 million. Again, production like that is getting 10-15+ million this offseason. If we need the cap room, someone will give us a #2 at least for Calderon.
I had to sound like a broken record on the cap, but the fact is that at least $1.4 billion in 2016-17 salaries must be handed out this offseason per the CBA. Not $1.4 billion in contracts. Just salaries for next season. On average, each team needs to sign guys for $45 million in additional 2016-17 salaries. And the list of free agents appears pretty picked over already.
Ty Lawson Profile - ( New Window )
Contract is non guaranteed so it is very low risk..
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In comment 12768946 Deej said:
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gets us one inch closer to winning a title. Because mentally I cant get there. Just seems like giving assets and potentially hurting chemistry on the hope of doing a little more to get the 8 seed, where we will get demolished by the Cavs.
Who said you are giving up assets?
If you do say Calderon, Seraphin and Derrick Williams for Jennings, where are the assets? you are saving money for next year..
The trade helps you in the long run...
I never said giving up the team to get a PG..
Calderon and Williams have positive value for 2016-17. We'll be very lucky if Williams opts back in at ~5 million. His kind of production would cost $15+ million on the open market (he may not get that because it's one year in an otherwise disappointing career). Calderon is a capable 3rd guard for $7 million. Again, production like that is getting 10-15+ million this offseason. If we need the cap room, someone will give us a #2 at least for Calderon.
I had to sound like a broken record on the cap, but the fact is that at least $1.4 billion in 2016-17 salaries must be handed out this offseason per the CBA. Not $1.4 billion in contracts. Just salaries for next season. On average, each team needs to sign guys for $45 million in additional 2016-17 salaries. And the list of free agents appears pretty picked over already.
So you would rather keep WIlliams and Calderon on the books and take up 12 million of cap space then take a risk on Jennings?
The whole goal of this off season coming up is to get a max superstar or add to this core...you have a chance to add 12 million to the roughly 25 million in space and you would rather hold on to Calderon?
I like Williams but i would rather have the 5 million than Williams.....
The Knicks are going to be very attractive to players...you want the most space you can get...
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the drinking problem I would be jumping at the chance to get Ty Lawson. I just don't think bringing an alcoholic to NY is the best move.
Contract is non guaranteed so it is very low risk..
It's not the contract I am worried about. It's his drunk ass being in the lockerroom
So who would you rather have, Calderon and Williams or Thomas and Galloway?
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In comment 12768984 EricNY33 said:
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the drinking problem I would be jumping at the chance to get Ty Lawson. I just don't think bringing an alcoholic to NY is the best move.
Contract is non guaranteed so it is very low risk..
It's not the contract I am worried about. It's his drunk ass being in the lockerroom
Ehh its half of a season, and you have veteran guys in Melo and Afflalo who played with him..maybe keep him in line..
Green had yet another disappearing act-like performance which ended with a loss to Houston, prompting at least one prominent teammate to question his commitment to the game.
From longtime Grizzlies beat writer Ron Tillery on his podcast:
I was told, point blank, by a guy in that locker room who matters that Jeff doesnt care."
'And I know of a guy who matters in that locker room that wanted to wring his neck last night after Green was benched following a 0-for-2 shooting, zero-rebound first-half performance Tuesday night in a loss to the Houston Rockets.
And while theres a part of you that wants to dismiss such comments, the unnamed teammate wouldnt be the first to wonder just how devoted Green is to playing this game at a high level.
I wouldn't hate it but not what I am looking for.
not sure he's enough of an upgrade over Calderon/Grant to warrant spending the money.
So you would rather keep WIlliams and Calderon on the books and take up 12 million of cap space then take a risk on Jennings?
The whole goal of this off season coming up is to get a max superstar or add to this core...you have a chance to add 12 million to the roughly 25 million in space and you would rather hold on to Calderon?
I like Williams but i would rather have the 5 million than Williams.....
The Knicks are going to be very attractive to players...you want the most space you can get...
What Im saying is that if we need the cap space on July 1, we can trade those two in about 10 seconds. Remember last offseason when 3 and D players like Carroll and Matthews were getting max contracts? It's going to be even crazier this offseason. Every team needs to spend an average of 45 million on new 2016 contracts. Take a look at the list of free agents. Paying Calderon 7 million is going to be a privilege.
The promise of cap space is a lot less alluring than the actuality of cap space. You dont need to make it all in advance. If Conley wants to sign here, flip Calderon. If Williams is dumb enough to not opt out, he's a huge bargain.
Link - ( New Window )
And unlike Derrick Williams, he cant point to being only in dysfunctional situations. She should have thrived in OKC, if he wanted it.
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So you would rather keep WIlliams and Calderon on the books and take up 12 million of cap space then take a risk on Jennings?
The whole goal of this off season coming up is to get a max superstar or add to this core...you have a chance to add 12 million to the roughly 25 million in space and you would rather hold on to Calderon?
I like Williams but i would rather have the 5 million than Williams.....
The Knicks are going to be very attractive to players...you want the most space you can get...
What Im saying is that if we need the cap space on July 1, we can trade those two in about 10 seconds. Remember last offseason when 3 and D players like Carroll and Matthews were getting max contracts? It's going to be even crazier this offseason. Every team needs to spend an average of 45 million on new 2016 contracts. Take a look at the list of free agents. Paying Calderon 7 million is going to be a privilege.
The promise of cap space is a lot less alluring than the actuality of cap space. You dont need to make it all in advance. If Conley wants to sign here, flip Calderon. If Williams is dumb enough to not opt out, he's a huge bargain. Link - ( New Window )
Do you not remember teh Knicks trying to trade Calderon last year and nobody wanted him?
If you have an oppurtunity to trade him at the deadline you do it...
Anthony (sprained right ankle) & Porzingis (sore right shoulder) are questionable for tomorrow. Grant (personal reasons) did not practice.
Not sure what to make of this.
Re DMM's post: I'd be shocked if Fisher's job was anything but super secure. Maybe there is some behind the scenes tension that Im not aware of, but now that he's settled down the rotation it is hard to argue with the job he is doing. Players seem to like him, and he's got the OKC connection. And he knows and runs Phil's desired offense. But those are good NBA commentators, so it bears watching.
The only reason I wouldn't fire him is that he may be a piece to lure Durant. Other than that, I'm not a fan of Fisher.
Im going to waive a yellow flag on Derek Fisher, as well.
Just hearing some rumbling that there isnt a lot of its not all rainbows and lollypops there. Just a yellow flag, not a red flag.
Lowe:
I agree with you that theres some rumblings. I havent heard them maybe like you have.
Sounds more like Windhorst has heard them directly from his sources while Lowe has heard rumblings of this but not directly.
I dont buy that anyone knows what Phil is thinking. I dont think Phil is telling Mills and Dolan what he's thinking.
He is not even plugged into Cleveland, he acts like he has contacts and i dont remember him ever breaking news when it came to cleveland..
Im going to waive a yellow flag on Derek Fisher, as well.
Lowe: Oh, interesting. Uh... why?
Just hearing some rumbling that there isnt a lot of its not all rainbows and lollypops there. Just a yellow flag, not a red flag.
Lowe:
I'll tell ya. The Knicks need to take a look in the mirror. I mean Im not saying Derek Fisher is Red Auerbach or anything because he's not. But they're 17 and 19. They just whipped Atlanta in a home and home. I think they might have one home game in between but whatever -- in the span of a week the beat the crap out of Atlanta twice and in the process played very attractive and fun basketball. Swinging the ball. Melo had 7 assists last night. Moving the ball from side to side. Fisher is trying Porzingis at center more even though the Knicks signed like 19 backup centers that Derek is not playing because Porzingis is essentially their backup center. Im just gonna say I agree with you that theres some rumblings. I havent heard them maybe like you have. [b]But I'll tell you, the Knicks need to maybe check themselves a little bit.
In context, I think he was really surprised. Speaking extemporaneously, I dont think he really meant he had heard anything.
I would..
Conley Afflalo(if he stays) Melo Porzingis Lopez...is a pretty good starting 5 and in my opinion can compete in the east..
Anthony (sprained right ankle) & Porzingis (sore right shoulder) are questionable for tomorrow. Grant (personal reasons) did not practice.
Doesn't sound promising so far as tomorrow night's result is concerned.
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NY_KnicksPR @NY_KnicksPR 53s53 seconds ago
Anthony (sprained right ankle) & Porzingis (sore right shoulder) are questionable for tomorrow. Grant (personal reasons) did not practice.
Doesn't sound promising so far as tomorrow night's result is concerned.
Porzingis said he expects to play
Melo siad he did some at practice will wait to see how it feels at shootaround...
You can make it work, get rid of Calderon and Williams opts out, you can probably make it work..
Deej : 1/14/2016 12:20 pm : link : reply
89 million cap. Melo (24.6), Rolo (13.2), KP (4.3), Grant (2.1) are the locks, at 42.1 million. Calderon (7.4) and KOQ (3.9) are under contract and easily movable in the offseason; no reason to reflexively assume they stay if you can trade one and keep a different, equally beloved player.
Max of 26.7 (Lowe says 24.9 but I think he's wrong) + 42.1 = 68.8 million. 89-68.8 = 20.2 million left. Figure if you split that over 3 guys, you need 3.5 of that 20.2 for ghost holds to get your roster at 12 players. So 14.8 million for 3 guys -- and you've lost Calderon and KOQ. Galloway I think has a 1.2 million qualifying offer, and I think (guessing) that if we resign him last, we can go over the cap to do that. So now you're at 13.6 million -- does that get you AA and Thomas? Probably not if AA opts out. Is Thomas getting 5.6 million (if AA opts in)? I dont know, it's a crazy world and his rep is growing. He will be a tough keep.
IMO if we sign a max player, we're losing all but 2, maybe 3 of: AA, Galloway, Thomas, Williams, KOQ, and Calderon. 3 or 4 would be goners if we get Batum or Conley for the full max.
Can't be too critical of the team not locking them in long term.
Can't be too critical of the team not locking them in long term.
smart teams sign guys like this to deals including team options all the time. With Galloway the whole reason they gave him guaranteed money for THIS season was because he had shown what he could do last year. I could maybe see it with Thomas since he's allegedly really worked on his game all summer and came back this year with an improved game. But even in his case, they signed him to a pretty nice contract for this year (more than the min), a deal nobody else was likely offering. You would think a team offering Thomas more than the minimum could have insisted on a team option for a second year with a little bit of a raise.
Very true. Even with Early they only signed him to two years. If he had shown anything he'd likely be gone this summer as well.
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blas about trading #1s and even #2s. A late #1 is 5 years of cost controlled depth.
Very true. Even with Early they only signed him to two years. If he had shown anything he'd likely be gone this summer as well.
When Early was drafetd were the Knicks over the cap?
they were only allowed according to NBA rules to sign him to a 2 year contract because they signed him using the minimum contract exception..
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at this level.
Can't be too critical of the team not locking them in long term.
smart teams sign guys like this to deals including team options all the time. With Galloway the whole reason they gave him guaranteed money for THIS season was because he had shown what he could do last year. I could maybe see it with Thomas since he's allegedly really worked on his game all summer and came back this year with an improved game. But even in his case, they signed him to a pretty nice contract for this year (more than the min), a deal nobody else was likely offering. You would think a team offering Thomas more than the minimum could have insisted on a team option for a second year with a little bit of a raise.
That's pure hindsight. The Knicks got Thomas in the middle of last year on 10 day contracts. They offered him a bit more than the minimum, the same as they did Vujacic. He was known for being a great teammate, but based on Vujacic's contract, he was probably looked at as more of a 12th player who would help smooth the transition for newcomers into the Triangle, then would be released after the year. I doubt even management thought he would be this effective.
doesn't hurt to insist on a team option for a second year in exchange for giving him more than a min contract last summer. Might be hindsight on my part but it shows a lack of foresight from the front office.
in the case of thomas, we had already agreed to pay him for more than the min for this season so what you're saying doesn't apply.
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why would a player lock himself into a minimum contract? especially with the cap boom coming up...Players always think they are worth more...
in the case of thomas, we had already agreed to pay him for more than the min for this season so what you're saying doesn't apply.
OMG they gave him 30,000 more than the minimum...
Of course it applies, no player signs a team option deal making that little of money...
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why would a player lock himself into a minimum contract? especially with the cap boom coming up...Players always think they are worth more...
in the case of thomas, we had already agreed to pay him for more than the min for this season so what you're saying doesn't apply.
How do we know that a team option for the next year wasn't offered? What ny16 is saying is true. There is absolutely no upside for the player to do so. If he does nothing, he gets the minimum. Possibly with another team. If he does well, then he's locking himself into a contract where his increased value isn't realized.
Deej,
100% wasn't taking a swipe at you or anything. I just know we had some discussion of who we all wanted to target in the off-season and you had liked Conley. I'm not suggesting you are obsessed with him etc. I like/liked Beal but his health stuff really concerns me.
Windhorst:
Im going to wave a yellow flag on Derek Fisher, as well.
Just hearing some rumbling that there isnt a lot of its not all rainbows and lollypops there. Just a yellow flag, not a red flag.
Lowe:
I agree with you that theres some rumblings. I havent heard them maybe like you have.
Rumor: Derek Fishers job not safe with Knicks - ( New Window )
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he just always struck me as a potentially gettable difference maker. Just below star level. Beal is restricted, so I figured that if he's worth maxing, DC would match.
Deej,
100% wasn't taking a swipe at you or anything. I just know we had some discussion of who we all wanted to target in the off-season and you had liked Conley. I'm not suggesting you are obsessed with him etc. I like/liked Beal but his health stuff really concerns me.
Wasnt reading too much into it. It's just funny, I think that if you go back thru the threads I could be tagged as a Batum-lover. I talked him up a lot more than Conley. Now I just think Conley is more gettable, so I probably mention him more. The market for Conley will be restricted given league wide PG depth, whereas every team can use Batum.
I was originally on the Conley train as well, but I've since changed my preference to Batum. There is less emphasis on a PG controlling the offense in the Triangle. Having a penetrating PG is obviously advantageous, but I don't think it's critical at this point. I think with Batum, you give Grant the opportunity to learn more as he grows in the system, and he can turn into a viable option in the future. Not to mention, he is cost controlled for a few years.
To me, the really critical point to be made in Batum's favor is that allows you to bring in another scoring option for the team, who also has a great all-around game to go along with that. He can play the 2 or 3, and as of the next FA period, our other two scoring options - Afflalo and Williams, who can also play the 2 and 3 - have player options. They could both potentially leave the team for more money.
That is not to say that I expect both to leave. Actually, I think Afflalo probably stays, with Williams moving on. But with Batum, you get a bump up in overall talent in the starting lineup, and Afflalo being the main scorer off the bench would be huge as well. This also helps KP in his development, as he can still ease into becoming the go-to guy on offense over the next few years. Despite how good he has been, he is still only 20 years old.
Im not expecting a max guy. But I think Phil is too smart to get us bogged down with guys like Chalmers. Plan B will probably be short-term type deals, maybe go after a restricted free agent. Phil gets that he won because he got the studs in place and backfilled with depth.
Also, reading over summer threads, boy I was really jonesing hard for Monroe. Still think it would have worked out for him better here. Advanced stats still love him.
Link - ( New Window )
He was on his way until his injuries. I really liked this kid.
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In comment 12769630 nygiants16 said:
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why would a player lock himself into a minimum contract? especially with the cap boom coming up...Players always think they are worth more...
in the case of thomas, we had already agreed to pay him for more than the min for this season so what you're saying doesn't apply.
How do we know that a team option for the next year wasn't offered? What ny16 is saying is true. There is absolutely no upside for the player to do so. If he does nothing, he gets the minimum. Possibly with another team. If he does well, then he's locking himself into a contract where his increased value isn't realized.
huh? The upside for the player is the guaranteed money in the first year of the deal that he wouldn't see otherwise. We're talking about a guy who had made peanuts in his first few years in the league. If you guarantee him nearly $2 million for year one, then the team option for year two is an easier pill to swallow. You can also throw in 500k or so in guaranteed money for year 2 if you don't pick up the option. There are ways to be creative with these deals where it benefits both player and team.
Similarly tho a surprise to me, Chalmers by the numbers isn't a huge drop from Conley. Not sure either is far and away a better defender or more athletic, Conley the better scorer & passer with a few more mins. If Conley isn't max maybe it's a bigger discussion. But Chalmers currently at $4.3M, is he going to $8-12M, even 10-15? Worth the savings v production? Also leaves us more open for 2017 FA
There's a stack of other names but Conley-Baze, Chalmers-Batum, Chalmers-Baze would be killer. And still have Sessions, Green (mia), Bayless, Moore (chi), Gordon, even old timers Blake, Foye, Hinrich tho it'd have to be a clear upgrade over the rest (def don't need age at G)
I've liked Greivis, but reading into it more for me he's just on that next tier list. Basically a younger Calderon who can't shoot so well. Not that he's so much worse that any of the 2nd tier names either but I def have soured on him as a potential great pickup
All this G talk makes me wonder about Shved - could have been a useful piece this year even tho not a huge individual upgrade. No big deal just remembered him...
Yes. Among the top D names, but hasn't gotten a ton of attention in terms of accolades. Always regarded as a top defender if not quite officially 'elite'