But if he asks for Byron Maxwell type $$, look to the draft for his replacement unless we (highly unlikely) find a similar talent in FA willing to accept $6-8 million per year.
He's never had a full season totally healthy. We want the Giants to pay top flight money on a CB with this history? When we are constantly complaining about guys like Beason and our entire injured roster?
He's never had a full season totally healthy. We want the Giants to pay top flight money on a CB with this history? When we are constantly complaining about guys like Beason and our entire injured roster?
not top flight money but id give him a decent contract. No need to create another hole on defense.
I hear you but I think Prince is looking for top flight money
better. Injuries have been small problem but he plays hard and is a very good all around DB now. We will not do better in FA and who knows in the draft. One of JRs best draft picks. Time we kept someone we drafted isn't it ? The grass is always greener around here but it has not been.
don't like the idea of paying big money to players with a long injury history, but I'd retain him at th The e right price. Most of his injuries have been in the upper body, although he did have a foot injury. The problem is money. His injury history would probably depress my offer below that of another team. Remember that a lot teams have more money than we do to spend. The end result is that we should and will make him an offer, but will probably be outbid.
The defense has been awful every year they've been here, and when you hear about a leadership void in the locker room, these two guys (drafted by the Giants, both SB champs, and both probably the senior Giants on the defense) are chief among the reasons for that void.
The defense needs a completely new culture about it and that isn't going to happen with either JPP or Prince getting paid.
It's a shame because he's a good kid. He was also horrific coming off that pec tear. It's just bad business to bring him back if it's not a team friendly deal.
He deserves to get as much as he can, but let some other team gamble. Do they really need to sign a younger version of Beason. Better off over paying for Janoris Jenkins if that's what it takes. Kid is a better cover man anyway.
Accountability has been a theme so far this offseason. The head coach got canned, and the GM's seat is so hot he can see the devil if he looks down. It's time for the players to share in that, and these two guys have been part of the problem. Let them go be someone else's problem, and replace them with youth and hunger.
The defense has been awful every year they've been here, and when you hear about a leadership void in the locker room, these two guys (drafted by the Giants, both SB champs, and both probably the senior Giants on the defense) are chief among the reasons for that void.
The defense needs a completely new culture about it and that isn't going to happen with either JPP or Prince getting paid.
Totally agree. I would absolutely let Prince walk. He is a decent player but a team that has led the league in injuries pretty much every season needs to avoid overpaying guys like this. Sure, players get hurt sometimes, but Prince always seems to be turning that corner and then boom... Guys like Hosley are back there starting. I'll take JPP though if he takes a home team discount now that he had been humbled. He can still get heat on the QB, and without that oven mitt thing on next year he should be much better.
count on the guy. You can not pay big money to someone who will not be there when you need them. Also, in addition to never making a big play the guy seems to be at his worse in the really big moments (see Brandon Marshall play at end of Jet game). I'd rather pay someone else.
even though our GM keeps doing it. Look at the Beason contract. Wouldn't be surprised if he breaks the bank for Prince to set him up for life. He seems to like to do that for some guys.
but like most, you have a ceiling for what he is worth, and if he can get more elsewhere, they have to find someone else. He is solid, not elite, not even close. But with the risk reward quotient related to keeping players or letting them walk, they have to work on keeping both Prince and DRC.
Instead of bitching (I know that's your schtik), what's your plan?
You should be more worried about Reese's plan, than my plan....
It time to shake up this roster and get rid of players that can't stay on the field.....Prince will be looking for big money, and to pay it is crazy....Did you watch Prince play before he was injured? Were you impressed? You couldn't have been after he came back....
Prince isn't a top flight CB. I think it's debatable whether he's an impact number 2.
I wouldn't go crazy with him. There's solid corners out there you don't have to overpay for if you draft well and pick guys off teams that are behind on the depth chart. DRC is a guy who simply is a better athlete and has ball skills and deserves his contract.
Instead of bitching (I know that's your schtik), what's your plan?
That's the issue. No one is offering a solution. People who are saying no to resigning prince are just being reactionary to the sad state of affairs on the defensive side.
But if he asks for Byron Maxwell type $$, look to the draft for his replacement unless we (highly unlikely) find a similar talent in FA willing to accept $6-8 million per year.
I say no. He can't stay on the field and will probably be asking for at least $7+ million a year. If the Giants want to pay that, go out and get Janoris Jenkins from the Rams or his partner Trumaine Johnson. They'll stay on the field more then Prince does,
I'd hope we could sign a better FA CB rather than re-sign Prince.
if there is no one to replace him. I would much rather overpay a few players than have to watch the playoffs without the Giants. And to see the Giants drop from elite status back to being one of the dregs of the league again.
Prince, a Reese 1st round draft pick, is at least an above average corner who could start for many playoff teams. His injuries have been soft tissue, torn bicep and pectoral. It seems like players used to play with these injuries but don't any more.
Prince is only 26. He is at least average in coverage (I think he's better than just average) and he is a superior tackler. In 2013, the year that he played all 16 games, he was 2nd in solo tackles to Rolle, 80-76. If we don't re-sign him, then he has to be replaced, and good young corners are hard to find.
As the 32nd and last ranked team in total defense, we already have many positions to upgrade. A safety, at least two linebackers, at least two defensive linemen to bolster the last-ranked team in sacks. If JPP doesn't return then there's another defensive line position to be filled.
The 2013 defense was ranked 8th in the league. The 2015 defense 32nd. Players who were part of the 2013 defense but not part of the 2015 defense include Antron Rolle, Will Hill, Justin Tuck, Linval Joseph and Mathias Kiwanuka. Yes, even Kiwi, who played in all 2013 games and had six sacks, would have been an improvement over whomever he replaced. The Giants screwed him over by never finding a permanent position for him.
Some of the blame goes to the players, who made really stupid decisions to leave the Giants' team for contracts which, excluding incentives, were the same or even worse than the Giants offered them.
But all of them could have been Giants in 2015 and would we have had the most spineless, laughingstock defense in the league? NO!
I don't know why this is controversial. I want to see the team win and be respected. I don't give a flying fuck about the payroll.
if there is no one to replace him. I would much rather overpay a few players than have to watch the playoffs without the Giants. And to see the Giants drop from elite status back to being one of the dregs of the league again.
Prince, a Reese 1st round draft pick, is at least an above average corner who could start for many playoff teams. His injuries have been soft tissue, torn bicep and pectoral. It seems like players used to play with these injuries but don't any more.
Prince is only 26. He is at least average in coverage (I think he's better than just average) and he is a superior tackler. In 2013, the year that he played all 16 games, he was 2nd in solo tackles to Rolle, 80-76. If we don't re-sign him, then he has to be replaced, and good young corners are hard to find.
As the 32nd and last ranked team in total defense, we already have many positions to upgrade. A safety, at least two linebackers, at least two defensive linemen to bolster the last-ranked team in sacks. If JPP doesn't return then there's another defensive line position to be filled.
The 2013 defense was ranked 8th in the league. The 2015 defense 32nd. Players who were part of the 2013 defense but not part of the 2015 defense include Antron Rolle, Will Hill, Justin Tuck, Linval Joseph and Mathias Kiwanuka. Yes, even Kiwi, who played in all 2013 games and had six sacks, would have been an improvement over whomever he replaced. The Giants screwed him over by never finding a permanent position for him.
Some of the blame goes to the players, who made really stupid decisions to leave the Giants' team for contracts which, excluding incentives, were the same or even worse than the Giants offered them.
But all of them could have been Giants in 2015 and would we have had the most spineless, laughingstock defense in the league? NO!
I don't know why this is controversial. I want to see the team win and be respected. I don't give a flying fuck about the payroll.
Payroll matters because there is a salary cap. If you pay Prince you aren't paying someone else.
Is going to be one of the true test this new management team will have to make. He has given solid play when healthy but can't remain healthy even though most of his injuries are not legs related. He does seem to have big problems defendiing larger WR's with little turnover results for the most part. Now he is young decent size and a high draft pick who has been on this team for years so how much is he worth and how much is to much remain the big questions.
In truth if not for the injury history he would be one of the top FA just by the position he plays. There are not many FA CB's who would rank above him when all the variables are put in place. This is also a team that needs defensive help can they afford to add another position to the list so easily. IMO if you don't sign him the short list of possible replacement FA's will cost you more or very close to 8-10 mil per year with no guarantee they will perform better than Prince.
As I said before Prince and JPP will be hard decisions this team will have to make but will also tell much about the direction this team is headed in the future. In truth there are maybe two to four guys that this team should even consider bringing back but the key will be as usual how much is to much. There is also this simple fact about the NFL it's a young mans game and out with the old and in with the new works more times then it fails. The old guys have shown us very little let's see what the young guys can do or can't do.
Is not a CB worth the money he will be trying to get he can have two three nice games but can then disappear or fall apart for six or seven games. He has good size but lacks everything else that makes a big CB really special. CB's will all get beaten but his tape will show a CB that can't be left one on one for most of the game.
DRC, Prince, Collins, + FA + high draft pick wouldn't be bad.
So you pay him no matter what? That's how bad things happen.
He's always hurt and had a bad second half of the season. I'd throw him an offer, if he thinks he's worth more, let him test FA and see what he gets. Bring in someone who isn't as injury prone with similar dollars.
Instead of bitching (I know that's your schtik), what's your plan?
That's the issue. No one is offering a solution. People who are saying no to resigning prince are just being reactionary to the sad state of affairs on the defensive side.
in the manner in which he played B. Marshall on that final touchdown. And save me that Marshall is a tough matchup because we are talking about whether to give Prince top-flight CB money when he is not.
The play....Prince starts off close to 10 yards off of the LOS when the Jets are on like on the 15. At the snap, he immediately backpedals into the endzone and continues to backup even while the pass goes up. When Marshall has already stopped, turned and jumped in the air, Prince is basically in a ridiculous poor position to do anything.
So what does Prince do next...
Does he try to get his arms/hands into the ball?, does he try to go over the top and knock the pass down?, or does he even try to commit a desperation move like a pass interference or hold?
No, he wraps his arms around & tackles Marshall 2 yards deep in the endzone after he catches the ball.
I really like him. But, I can't see paying anything near the terms I think the market will bear for a player of his ability. Why? Injuries. We can't rely on someone who can't play a full season and always has some kind of soft tissue injury.
If you are seriously suggesting Prince is worth 8 mil / year,
I suggest we fix the mistake we made drafting him at 19 overall and passing on Mo Wilkerson. Wilkerson will cost more, for sure, but I don't think Prince brings more to the turf than any average vet CB costing 3-5 mil per year would bring. Whereas Wilkerson is a huge upgrade over the average 3-4 mil per year DL, like Cullen Jenkins. Yeah it's a passing league, but unless a CB is a really too notch " can play on an island type cover guy, who also plays the run well, he doesn't impact a D the way a beast DL does.
McAdoo said he's reloading, not rebuilding. It's definitely a tough call in both cases, but if we go cheap on Prince and JPP and both walk, it sure starts to look more like a rebuild to me.
I suggest we fix the mistake we made drafting him at 19 overall and passing on Mo Wilkerson. Wilkerson will cost more, for sure, but I don't think Prince brings more to the turf than any average vet CB costing 3-5 mil per year would bring. Whereas Wilkerson is a huge upgrade over the average 3-4 mil per year DL, like Cullen Jenkins. Yeah it's a passing league, but unless a CB is a really too notch " can play on an island type cover guy, who also plays the run well, he doesn't impact a D the way a beast DL does.
I think Prince is better than average. When he is healthy, he is a good CB. However, every year he is hurt and when he comes back he is always a notch below normal. We just can't commit the time, money, or need to a guy like him,
NO.... you cut down on injuries by letting go of injury prone players
deserve the money even if he was. He is appears valuable on our team because the drop off to the chuckleheads we have on the bench is a joke. Hosley, Wade and McBride are 3 walking bulls-eyes, especially when we have such weak free safety's providing them support.
Don't be so scared of letting average talent walk away. Front Office has plenty of things to do to fix this roster and tying up a huge contract with Prince makes no sense.
RE: RE: to those of you who want to get rid of Prince
There been multiple suggestions. Smith,Jenkins Boykin.
Prince has missed 25 games out 80. More than any of the guys mentioned. Twice as many as some of them.
He's not worth anything more than middle of the road cash.
You have been on a roll, lately. I don't think he is that good. I never have. The injury aspect for corners you have to live with. They are asked to do so much out there. But, with Prince, where is the production to warrant a big contract?
Spend the money on a reliable CB in free agency. He's missed 30% of his starts over the last four seasons and been ineffective playing hurt in another 10%. Move on.
This Bermuda triangle injury trap our FO perpetuates needs to end. We won't win until it does.
Queue the "on a one year prove it deal" comments
Still, depending on money I think they should keep him. He should get a short contract (3 years?) at slightly less than the average CB salary.
Given the current state of the NFL I'd still like to see a slot corner and a high draft pick brought in, even if Prince is back.
*a contract like Maxwell's.
Who do you replace him with?
The defense needs a completely new culture about it and that isn't going to happen with either JPP or Prince getting paid.
He deserves to get as much as he can, but let some other team gamble. Do they really need to sign a younger version of Beason. Better off over paying for Janoris Jenkins if that's what it takes. Kid is a better cover man anyway.
The defense needs a completely new culture about it and that isn't going to happen with either JPP or Prince getting paid.
Totally agree. I would absolutely let Prince walk. He is a decent player but a team that has led the league in injuries pretty much every season needs to avoid overpaying guys like this. Sure, players get hurt sometimes, but Prince always seems to be turning that corner and then boom... Guys like Hosley are back there starting. I'll take JPP though if he takes a home team discount now that he had been humbled. He can still get heat on the QB, and without that oven mitt thing on next year he should be much better.
He is not a shut down corner....
Can't stay on the field....
7 int's in 5 seasons?
Has problems defending taller receivers....
We paid this guy almost 7M this year....
Think we can get more out of a corner for 7M......
He is not a shut down corner....
Can't stay on the field....
7 int's in 5 seasons?
Has problems defending taller receivers....
We paid this guy almost 7M this year....
Think we can get more out of a corner for 7M......
Instead of bitching (I know that's your schtik), what's your plan?
You should be more worried about Reese's plan, than my plan....
It time to shake up this roster and get rid of players that can't stay on the field.....Prince will be looking for big money, and to pay it is crazy....Did you watch Prince play before he was injured? Were you impressed? You couldn't have been after he came back....
My fault.
I wouldn't go crazy with him. There's solid corners out there you don't have to overpay for if you draft well and pick guys off teams that are behind on the depth chart. DRC is a guy who simply is a better athlete and has ball skills and deserves his contract.
Rookie high draft pick?
That's the issue. No one is offering a solution. People who are saying no to resigning prince are just being reactionary to the sad state of affairs on the defensive side.
I say no. He can't stay on the field and will probably be asking for at least $7+ million a year. If the Giants want to pay that, go out and get Janoris Jenkins from the Rams or his partner Trumaine Johnson. They'll stay on the field more then Prince does,
Rookie high draft pick?
Doesn't need to be a big money FA. In fact, it probably shouldn't be.
Prince, a Reese 1st round draft pick, is at least an above average corner who could start for many playoff teams. His injuries have been soft tissue, torn bicep and pectoral. It seems like players used to play with these injuries but don't any more.
Prince is only 26. He is at least average in coverage (I think he's better than just average) and he is a superior tackler. In 2013, the year that he played all 16 games, he was 2nd in solo tackles to Rolle, 80-76. If we don't re-sign him, then he has to be replaced, and good young corners are hard to find.
As the 32nd and last ranked team in total defense, we already have many positions to upgrade. A safety, at least two linebackers, at least two defensive linemen to bolster the last-ranked team in sacks. If JPP doesn't return then there's another defensive line position to be filled.
The 2013 defense was ranked 8th in the league. The 2015 defense 32nd. Players who were part of the 2013 defense but not part of the 2015 defense include Antron Rolle, Will Hill, Justin Tuck, Linval Joseph and Mathias Kiwanuka. Yes, even Kiwi, who played in all 2013 games and had six sacks, would have been an improvement over whomever he replaced. The Giants screwed him over by never finding a permanent position for him.
Some of the blame goes to the players, who made really stupid decisions to leave the Giants' team for contracts which, excluding incentives, were the same or even worse than the Giants offered them.
But all of them could have been Giants in 2015 and would we have had the most spineless, laughingstock defense in the league? NO!
I don't know why this is controversial. I want to see the team win and be respected. I don't give a flying fuck about the payroll.
Prince, a Reese 1st round draft pick, is at least an above average corner who could start for many playoff teams. His injuries have been soft tissue, torn bicep and pectoral. It seems like players used to play with these injuries but don't any more.
Prince is only 26. He is at least average in coverage (I think he's better than just average) and he is a superior tackler. In 2013, the year that he played all 16 games, he was 2nd in solo tackles to Rolle, 80-76. If we don't re-sign him, then he has to be replaced, and good young corners are hard to find.
As the 32nd and last ranked team in total defense, we already have many positions to upgrade. A safety, at least two linebackers, at least two defensive linemen to bolster the last-ranked team in sacks. If JPP doesn't return then there's another defensive line position to be filled.
The 2013 defense was ranked 8th in the league. The 2015 defense 32nd. Players who were part of the 2013 defense but not part of the 2015 defense include Antron Rolle, Will Hill, Justin Tuck, Linval Joseph and Mathias Kiwanuka. Yes, even Kiwi, who played in all 2013 games and had six sacks, would have been an improvement over whomever he replaced. The Giants screwed him over by never finding a permanent position for him.
Some of the blame goes to the players, who made really stupid decisions to leave the Giants' team for contracts which, excluding incentives, were the same or even worse than the Giants offered them.
But all of them could have been Giants in 2015 and would we have had the most spineless, laughingstock defense in the league? NO!
I don't know why this is controversial. I want to see the team win and be respected. I don't give a flying fuck about the payroll.
Payroll matters because there is a salary cap. If you pay Prince you aren't paying someone else.
In truth if not for the injury history he would be one of the top FA just by the position he plays. There are not many FA CB's who would rank above him when all the variables are put in place. This is also a team that needs defensive help can they afford to add another position to the list so easily. IMO if you don't sign him the short list of possible replacement FA's will cost you more or very close to 8-10 mil per year with no guarantee they will perform better than Prince.
As I said before Prince and JPP will be hard decisions this team will have to make but will also tell much about the direction this team is headed in the future. In truth there are maybe two to four guys that this team should even consider bringing back but the key will be as usual how much is to much. There is also this simple fact about the NFL it's a young mans game and out with the old and in with the new works more times then it fails. The old guys have shown us very little let's see what the young guys can do or can't do.
For solid #2 CB money yes. For more, no.
So you pay him no matter what? That's how bad things happen.
He's always hurt and had a bad second half of the season. I'd throw him an offer, if he thinks he's worth more, let him test FA and see what he gets. Bring in someone who isn't as injury prone with similar dollars.
Quote:
Instead of bitching (I know that's your schtik), what's your plan?
That's the issue. No one is offering a solution. People who are saying no to resigning prince are just being reactionary to the sad state of affairs on the defensive side.
Boykin from Pittsburgh
There are also viable CBs at 10.
Prince would be like signing a younger version of Beason.
The play....Prince starts off close to 10 yards off of the LOS when the Jets are on like on the 15. At the snap, he immediately backpedals into the endzone and continues to backup even while the pass goes up. When Marshall has already stopped, turned and jumped in the air, Prince is basically in a ridiculous poor position to do anything.
So what does Prince do next...
Does he try to get his arms/hands into the ball?, does he try to go over the top and knock the pass down?, or does he even try to commit a desperation move like a pass interference or hold?
No, he wraps his arms around & tackles Marshall 2 yards deep in the endzone after he catches the ball.
Sure, sign him up for $9M/year...
You guys complain that Prince can't handle taller receivers and your solution is....Boykin? Really?
Defense keeps Hankins, Ayers, Kennard, DRC and Collins.
Everybody else should be a new body with above-average speed and hunger...
I'd rather have an average to above average CB who plays 16 games than Prince playing 8-10.
As for the injury front, the following is list of CB making 6M plus per year and games they miss. It is not just Prince
J. Smith has missed 17 games in 5 years
L. Hall has missed 17 games the last 4 years
J. Hayden has missed 18 games the last 4 years
B. Maxwell has missed 19 games in 5 years
S. Shields has missed 15 games the last 4 years
A. Talib has missed 12 games the last 4 years
B. Flowers has missed 12 games the last 4 years
V. Davis has missed 11 games the last 4 years
C. Culliver has missed 29 games the last 4 years
K. jackson has missed 10 games the last 4 years
D. House has missed 15 games the last 4 years
C. Allen has missed 26 games the last 4 years
There been multiple suggestions. Smith,Jenkins Boykin.
Prince has missed 25 games out 80. More than any of the guys mentioned. Twice as many as some of them.
He's not worth anything more than middle of the road cash.
Don't be so scared of letting average talent walk away. Front Office has plenty of things to do to fix this roster and tying up a huge contract with Prince makes no sense.
Quote:
just exactly who is going to replace him???
There been multiple suggestions. Smith,Jenkins Boykin.
Prince has missed 25 games out 80. More than any of the guys mentioned. Twice as many as some of them.
He's not worth anything more than middle of the road cash.
You have been on a roll, lately. I don't think he is that good. I never have. The injury aspect for corners you have to live with. They are asked to do so much out there. But, with Prince, where is the production to warrant a big contract?
JPP, Prince, Randle, Beason, Donnell, Beatty, Cruz.
That's a lot of core players I would not bring back. Many for very similar reasons.
This Bermuda triangle injury trap our FO perpetuates needs to end. We won't win until it does.