Yes there is a point to all this -- For everyone moaning about the Giants losing Jones -- Randle is/was just as good as Jones last year - He's a decent #3 receiver -- with his college coach coming in he might even improve some - thsi is the guy that had him playing to a projected first round pick in the year we drafted Randle - I think he should be resigned and continue playing here as opposed to drafting a WR with a premium pick this year
Yes there is a point to all this -- For everyone moaning about the Giants losing Jones -- Randle is/was just as good as Jones last year - He's a decent #3 receiver -- with his college coach coming in he might even improve some - thsi is the guy that had him playing to a projected first round pick in the year we drafted Randle - I think he should be resigned and continue playing here as opposed to drafting a WR with a premium pick this year
Uh yeah but RR was our #2 not #3, still a pointless comparison.
Well I just posted this on the Jones thread, but...
... really for me it was much more about keeping a more reliable option than Parker. I really did not like Parker. I would have had Randle move to the slot and have Jones on the outside with OBJ. I always felt it was a better hedge against Victor not being at least 85% or missing significant time.
Yes there is a point to all this -- For everyone moaning about the Giants losing Jones -- Randle is/was just as good as Jones last year - He's a decent #3 receiver -- with his college coach coming in he might even improve some - thsi is the guy that had him playing to a projected first round pick in the year we drafted Randle - I think he should be resigned and continue playing here as opposed to drafting a WR with a premium pick this year
Uh yeah but RR was our #2 not #3, still a pointless comparison.
Look, with Nelson going down that JJ was also the #2 Receiver for Green Bay last season and his stats were roughly comparable to Randle's -- if folks are mad that Jones should have stayed -- why are they anxious to boot Randle?
is everything a team does NOT want in a WR in that he lacks concentration, lacks route running discipline, lacks hustle, lacks run after the catch ability, lacks consistent hands and lacks toughness (both physical and mental).
Regardless of JJ, Ruben Randle is terrible at running routes, caused a lot of interceptions (that Eli of course was blamed for) and is one of the most non-physical wide receivers I have ever seen. He plays too soft especially in this type of offense and we should let him walk.
He's got the physical skill and talent and produces like a solid No 2. The times he leaves fans groaning it's because of mental errors, errors I believe can be corrected with solid coaching. Maybe Henry can do that. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he should be re-signed however. The real question is what he'll demand on the open market. OTC.com projects him in the range of 5 years, 32-34 million. That would be a nice chunk of change to give a guy with those question marks and it would most likely rule out bringing in another FA wideout like Kearse, Matthews, or Benjamin (all of whom OTC ranks below Randle, FWIW). Then again, who knows. If they can get Randle for 5 mill per maybe they can still add someone like Kearse or Sanu, who OTC projects at about 3 mill per. Restructuring Cruz's deal could go a long way in making that happen.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
I don't get that at all. Keeping JJ over Randle? After the year Randle had last year?
I don't think for a second they even considered it. Randle was going into 2015 as the starter. Jones as insurance and maybe the last WR spot.
Randle was still under contract. Cutting him would have lost money. And no matter what any of us thinks, management had to run those numbers and come up with an answer.
I think they move on from him now and so that era will be thankfully over.
He's got the physical skill and talent and produces like a solid No 2. The times he leaves fans groaning it's because of mental errors, errors I believe can be corrected with solid coaching. Maybe Henry can do that. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he should be re-signed however. The real question is what he'll demand on the open market. OTC.com projects him in the range of 5 years, 32-34 million. That would be a nice chunk of change to give a guy with those question marks and it would most likely rule out bringing in another FA wideout like Kearse, Matthews, or Benjamin (all of whom OTC ranks below Randle, FWIW). Then again, who knows. If they can get Randle for 5 mill per maybe they can still add someone like Kearse or Sanu, who OTC projects at about 3 mill per. Restructuring Cruz's deal could go a long way in making that happen.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
The market is the market.
If Randle gets that kind of offer on the open market, perhaps the fact that the open market thinks RR is worth more than some of all-star options being floated around BBI means BBI needs to re-think its evaluation skills, perhaps there are professionals charged with evaluating players and spending their employer's money might be better than a bunch of fans on a website . . . Nah.
He's got the physical skill and talent and produces like a solid No 2. The times he leaves fans groaning it's because of mental errors, errors I believe can be corrected with solid coaching. Maybe Henry can do that. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he should be re-signed however. The real question is what he'll demand on the open market. OTC.com projects him in the range of 5 years, 32-34 million. That would be a nice chunk of change to give a guy with those question marks and it would most likely rule out bringing in another FA wideout like Kearse, Matthews, or Benjamin (all of whom OTC ranks below Randle, FWIW). Then again, who knows. If they can get Randle for 5 mill per maybe they can still add someone like Kearse or Sanu, who OTC projects at about 3 mill per. Restructuring Cruz's deal could go a long way in making that happen.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
The market is the market.
If Randle gets that kind of offer on the open market, perhaps the fact that the open market thinks RR is worth more than some of all-star options being floated around BBI means BBI needs to re-think its evaluation skills, perhaps there are professionals charged with evaluating players and spending their employer's money might be better than a bunch of fans on a website . . . Nah.
Not sure what purpose being a wise as serves here but if that's what you need to do, by all means, go for it.
Point is, for discussions sake, those are the numbers *projected* by a pretty reputable site. I'm not a scout or an agent, none of us, so again, for *discussions sake* I cited a website. I didn't say those were concrete numbers. Even threw a *fwiw* in there to acknowledge that we won't know what the market will be. But like I said, if you've got some overriding need to be a dick, have at it.
in what the announcers have to say when watching Giant games, but there were seemingly 3-4 different guys to call this guy out for not finishing routes and/or not giving max effort. It's hard to win with guys like that.
It was PP or JJ and JJ would have gotten us two more wins
PP's best moment was in the game against Atlanta when he caught a pass on the sideline and was given a standing ovation. One of my favorite moments of the season.
On the Jones vs. Randle thing..
Jones put up those numbers despite being away for a year and showing up about a week or two before the season.
Randle put up his numbers despite having been with the same QB for 4 years and getting a healthy amount of snaps.
Randle's numbers should have been higher to start with. When you consider the lack of receiving depth on the team, balls were certainly available to be had on the offense where he should have been an 80+ catch guy, but was not.
RR is not a #2 or #3 NFL receiver. "Just needs a little coaching"? Really? I learned in Pony League football at 13 how to run a precise pass route without rounding or stopping. He doesn't ever help his QB by coming back or fighting for the ball. When he does catch it, his YAC sucks because he always heads for the sidelines. Statistics lie. PLEASE do not resign RR.
Jones had 50 catches in 100 targets, while RR had 57 in only 90 targets. And Jones plays with a guy who is arguably the most accurate passer in the NFL. He drops WAY too many balls.
I don't want to appear to come across as a big defender of RR, I'm not, but Jones just isn't a good NFL WR at this point.
RR is not a #2 or #3 NFL receiver. "Just needs a little coaching"? Really? I learned in Pony League football at 13 how to run a precise pass route without rounding or stopping. He doesn't ever help his QB by coming back or fighting for the ball. When he does catch it, his YAC sucks because he always heads for the sidelines. Statistics lie. PLEASE do not resign RR.
Yes, he has mental errors. Mental errors can be coached up. And your experience in pee wee football doesn't mean squat. They teach fundamentals from a young age yet a large portion of the league has basic, fundamental issues they need to work on. Again, not saying Randle should be re-signed, but really, you want to cite/compare your pre teen pop warner experience as relatable? Get the hell outta here with that. I guess that means you'd be a solid, precise route runner if thrown on an NFL field today. Maybe they should just bring you on board, seeing as how you were taught the basics at 14 (like 90% of BBI).
Randle and Jones have similar numbers. They were both the #2 receiver for their team. Yet, most people want Randle gone and scream bloody murder for letting Jones go.
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
Why so many have left this board. J rud. Your handle says it all..RUDE. No need for a personal attack.Just pointing out what I see AT THE GAMES and my opinion. Up yours!
Why so many have left this board. J rud. Your handle says it all..RUDE. No need for a personal attack.Just pointing out what I see AT THE GAMES and my opinion. Up yours!
First off it's "rud", short vowel sound, rhymes with mud. Second of all, I pointed out that your experience as a tween being taught the fundamentals has *zero* bearing on RR or any other NFL players skill set or where you think they should be. Third, if pointing that out makes me "rude" so be it. It was a dumb thing to say. I'm not rude. I just have a very low threshold for stupid. Finally, if someone disagreeing with you is enough to make you leave an Internet message board then it's probably the best for all involved. You think I'm "rude"? Wish you could've seen the reaction such a stupid supposition would've gotten in the "old days" of BBI...
RE: I think many here are missing the point of the OP
Randle and Jones have similar numbers. They were both the #2 receiver for their team. Yet, most people want Randle gone and scream bloody murder for letting Jones go.
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
The point should be that letting Jones go was stupid. It was one of many stupid decisions made by the team last year. There were plenty of them. This was one of them.
There is no Randle vs Jones debate. Its not a question of whether Randle was better than Jones or vice versa. Jones may not be a good WR but he's still better than Parker or Harris or Nicks or White. Thats the point.
If this situation had been handled correctly, when Jones had asked to be released they would have told him no. Oh, you're unhappy? Suck it up and play ball. Then they would have cut Parker. The slot position would have been handled by Beckham or Randle or Vereen or Harris or whatever. If the former coaching staff had any creativity at all they could have worked it out. But they don't have any creativity as evidenced by their insistance on some stupid 4 headed RB rotation.
Last season was a comedy of errors and that was one of them.
Thats it. It was a dumb decision. One of many dumb decisions made by the coaches and front office last season en route to another crap season where they only won 6 games and had to fire their head coach because of it. No way around it.
Randle and Jones have similar numbers. They were both the #2 receiver for their team. Yet, most people want Randle gone and scream bloody murder for letting Jones go.
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
Combining two totally separate issues of wanting RR gone now and wanting JJ kept then makes no sense whatsoever.
They probably went in the direction of guys who were already in the system here and ready to go, as opposed to Jones. Many would prefer Jones. Bah. Who cares?
the Giants move on from Randle. One of my least favorite Giants in recent memory.
Stats? Guy starts across from Beckham, has a hall of famer throwing to him in a league that has made pass defense illegal. Of course he will have a somewhat productive stat line.
I agree with all the negatives stated on this thread about him. I am actually fascinated that any Giant fan would want this guy back.
If he gets offers, good for him, as long has he is not in blue.
Randle and Jones have similar numbers. They were both the #2 receiver for their team. Yet, most people want Randle gone and scream bloody murder for letting Jones go.
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
I'm done with his loopy slant routes and give up out patterns he runs. Time to cut your losses and start over with another drafted WR. There are a ton out there. doesn't have to be rd. 1 or 2. The guy has given us 3rd/4th rd production at best.
Nobody on this board was enamored with Jones until he was on another team. Same old story. People only see the negatives when a player is on our roster, but as soon as that player makes a contribution on another team our management is stupid for letting them go.
The glass is half empty here, and half full elsewhere.
is smooth, can catch, and really could be a fine #2 receiver in the NFL.
But he lacks passion/desire, and in the NFL, that's what essentially gets you to the level.
Randle is going to play 10+ years, make a lot of money, get a great pension but will be known as a guy who didn't maximize his talent/effort.
Giants really need to move on from him. You'll get the same results, especially and more importantly at crunch time, with a high effort/less ability player.
Are we overlooking the obvious here ? JJ was not retained because Cruz was supposed to return.
or do we think that had nothing to do with it ?
We know that had nothing to do with it. Jones doesn't play the slot, so keeping him had nothing to do with Cruz. Jones asked for his release because he felt he would get more playing time elsewhere.
Are we overlooking the obvious here ? JJ was not retained because Cruz was supposed to return.
or do we think that had nothing to do with it ?
We know that had nothing to do with it. Jones doesn't play the slot, so keeping him had nothing to do with Cruz. Jones asked for his release because he felt he would get more playing time elsewhere.
Well, yes and no. While not directly in competition for the slot receiver spot, they were running Randle in the slot in practices and talked that option up (at least from what I read). I was flabbergasted that they kept Parker. They should have kept Jones and Randle. Use Randle and Harris for the slot and keep Jones as a 2nd receiver on the outside. Parker had hands of cement.
Well, yes and no. While not directly in competition for the slot receiver spot, they were running Randle in the slot in practices and talked that option up (at least from what I read). I was flabbergasted that they kept Parker. They should have kept Jones and Randle. Use Randle and Harris for the slot and keep Jones as a 2nd receiver on the outside. Parker had hands of cement.
They may have talked up Randle playing the slot, but I think it's telling that he never played there. As KWALL noted, Reuben doesn't have the skillset to play the slot effectively.
Well, yes and no. While not directly in competition for the slot receiver spot, they were running Randle in the slot in practices and talked that option up (at least from what I read). I was flabbergasted that they kept Parker. They should have kept Jones and Randle. Use Randle and Harris for the slot and keep Jones as a 2nd receiver on the outside. Parker had hands of cement.
They may have talked up Randle playing the slot, but I think it's telling that he never played there. As KWALL noted, Reuben doesn't have the skillset to play the slot effectively.
Yep that's true, but seems Harris was a decent fit there. Then at least you have Harris in the slot and Jones in place of Randle (at least when his knees were flaring up). Well, it doesn't really matter now... lol. I like the discussion though because I was pissed that they kept Parker over him, or that's how I saw it anyway.
He's got the physical skill and talent and produces like a solid No 2. The times he leaves fans groaning it's because of mental errors, errors I believe can be corrected with solid coaching. Maybe Henry can do that. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he should be re-signed however. The real question is what he'll demand on the open market. OTC.com projects him in the range of 5 years, 32-34 million. That would be a nice chunk of change to give a guy with those question marks and it would most likely rule out bringing in another FA wideout like Kearse, Matthews, or Benjamin (all of whom OTC ranks below Randle, FWIW). Then again, who knows. If they can get Randle for 5 mill per maybe they can still add someone like Kearse or Sanu, who OTC projects at about 3 mill per. Restructuring Cruz's deal could go a long way in making that happen.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
The market is the market.
If Randle gets that kind of offer on the open market, perhaps the fact that the open market thinks RR is worth more than some of all-star options being floated around BBI means BBI needs to re-think its evaluation skills, perhaps there are professionals charged with evaluating players and spending their employer's money might be better than a bunch of fans on a website . . . Nah.
Not sure what purpose being a wise as serves here but if that's what you need to do, by all means, go for it.
Point is, for discussions sake, those are the numbers *projected* by a pretty reputable site. I'm not a scout or an agent, none of us, so again, for *discussions sake* I cited a website. I didn't say those were concrete numbers. Even threw a *fwiw* in there to acknowledge that we won't know what the market will be. But like I said, if you've got some overriding need to be a dick, have at it.
Not that I need your permission or care, but thanks.
I think that's what I said, let's see what this guy gets for offers on the open market.
He was initially brought here to fill out the roster. Every single person knew that OBJ was 1. At the time, Cruz was getting ready to practice, RR was 3. They had just signed Harris - 4. They then had Parker from last year, who was the 3. That is already 5 plus the R
Jones was not beating any of them out. NFL teams don't keep vet guys like that on the end of rosters to sit. They keep young guys to do that. When they cut him, Cruz was still talking of playing early and Parker and Harris were the insurance
With GB, once teams realized Cobb was not capable of being a 1, Jones production slipped big
This notion that people think he is not a no 2 is a joke
James Jones was a serious error in judging talent. That's why James Jones is brought up so often. Preston Parker had 5 catches for 40 yards in 2015... and an awful lot of drops.
He f**ks up the entire team with his lack of focus, intensity and desire to play hard on every down.
I'm through with this guy's dogging it.
The sooner they let him walk the better.
Can't win s**t with him.
ps I was the first idiot on BBI to make a favorable comparison between this guy's stats after three seasons versus Amani Toomer. In retrospect, that was the dumbest ass thing I ever did. And mentioning these two guys in the same breath was the ultimate insult to Amani Toomer.
Gives up on routes. Runs the wrong routes. Runs crappy routes. Is passive with the ball in the air. Lacks vertical explosion. Isn't sudden in and out of his breaks.
Gives up on routes. Runs the wrong routes. Runs crappy routes. Is passive with the ball in the air. Lacks vertical explosion. Isn't sudden in and out of his breaks.
that needed to be managed. Tendinitis, I think. may be wrong on the exact diagnosis, but it was alleged to be a long term thing that flared up in preseason/early season. IF that's the case, sign RR to a minimum wage/easy to ditch deal, or let him go.
But, I disagree that it was ever RR or JJ. After his finish in 2014, RR was coming back. It was always the JAG JJ vs JAG PP. the others were youngsters being considered for potential. PP could supposedly fill the slot while Cruz was out. I posted it was wise to keep a slot receiver like PP. unfortunately, PP shit the bed big time. So, it appears TC (and I) went in the wrong direction.
Covering the slot clouds the issue, and it is the reason PP was kept. RR was never in doubt. PP and JJ were JAGs. one seemed to have more versatility. that's where the decision had to be made.
Way too much is being made of the decision. At the time, it made sense. In hind sight, it was a BAD decision. no amount of obvious threads are going to change it. it was a bad decision. shit happens.
with Jones numbers productivity could have been doubled along with Randle Odell and Jones. No matter how you slice it Jones should not have been let go. McAdoo?
A) Do the Pack even bring JJ back?
B) If they did bring him back, what would his stats have looked like?
Yes there is a point to all this -- For everyone moaning about the Giants losing Jones -- Randle is/was just as good as Jones last year - He's a decent #3 receiver -- with his college coach coming in he might even improve some - thsi is the guy that had him playing to a projected first round pick in the year we drafted Randle - I think he should be resigned and continue playing here as opposed to drafting a WR with a premium pick this year
Quote:
to this?
Yes there is a point to all this -- For everyone moaning about the Giants losing Jones -- Randle is/was just as good as Jones last year - He's a decent #3 receiver -- with his college coach coming in he might even improve some - thsi is the guy that had him playing to a projected first round pick in the year we drafted Randle - I think he should be resigned and continue playing here as opposed to drafting a WR with a premium pick this year
Uh yeah but RR was our #2 not #3, still a pointless comparison.
How did his numbers compare to Preston Parker, Geremy Davis, and Myles White??
Quote:
In comment 12776662 mdthedream said:
Quote:
to this?
Yes there is a point to all this -- For everyone moaning about the Giants losing Jones -- Randle is/was just as good as Jones last year - He's a decent #3 receiver -- with his college coach coming in he might even improve some - thsi is the guy that had him playing to a projected first round pick in the year we drafted Randle - I think he should be resigned and continue playing here as opposed to drafting a WR with a premium pick this year
Uh yeah but RR was our #2 not #3, still a pointless comparison.
Look, with Nelson going down that JJ was also the #2 Receiver for Green Bay last season and his stats were roughly comparable to Randle's -- if folks are mad that Jones should have stayed -- why are they anxious to boot Randle?
I guess you can see why he's stuck on here. The 8 TDs (more than I thought) are contrasted by brain farts and seeming giving up on plays.
White
Davis
Jernigan
Parker
do?
Hopefully his time has come and gone as a Giant.
I don't think for a second they even considered it. Randle was going into 2015 as the starter. Jones as insurance and maybe the last WR spot.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
I don't think for a second they even considered it. Randle was going into 2015 as the starter. Jones as insurance and maybe the last WR spot.
I think they move on from him now and so that era will be thankfully over.
Here is a stat for you Jones fans. After week 4 or 5, Rodgers completed less than 43% of his passes to Jones.
When they made plays, it was on broken routes after 4 or 5 seconds and Rodgers extending plays.
Should the Giants re-sign Rueben Randle?
Hell the fuck no!
I'm actually shocked to see that they had the same # of TDs. JJ had 4 TDs in first 3 weeks and then only 4 TDs for the Final 13 games.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
If Randle gets that kind of offer on the open market, perhaps the fact that the open market thinks RR is worth more than some of all-star options being floated around BBI means BBI needs to re-think its evaluation skills, perhaps there are professionals charged with evaluating players and spending their employer's money might be better than a bunch of fans on a website . . . Nah.
and pigs fly. Watch what this guy gets on the open market.
If you know anything about the game of football, the above are facts.
Quote:
He's got the physical skill and talent and produces like a solid No 2. The times he leaves fans groaning it's because of mental errors, errors I believe can be corrected with solid coaching. Maybe Henry can do that. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he should be re-signed however. The real question is what he'll demand on the open market. OTC.com projects him in the range of 5 years, 32-34 million. That would be a nice chunk of change to give a guy with those question marks and it would most likely rule out bringing in another FA wideout like Kearse, Matthews, or Benjamin (all of whom OTC ranks below Randle, FWIW). Then again, who knows. If they can get Randle for 5 mill per maybe they can still add someone like Kearse or Sanu, who OTC projects at about 3 mill per. Restructuring Cruz's deal could go a long way in making that happen.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
The market is the market.
If Randle gets that kind of offer on the open market, perhaps the fact that the open market thinks RR is worth more than some of all-star options being floated around BBI means BBI needs to re-think its evaluation skills, perhaps there are professionals charged with evaluating players and spending their employer's money might be better than a bunch of fans on a website . . . Nah.
Not sure what purpose being a wise as serves here but if that's what you need to do, by all means, go for it.
Point is, for discussions sake, those are the numbers *projected* by a pretty reputable site. I'm not a scout or an agent, none of us, so again, for *discussions sake* I cited a website. I didn't say those were concrete numbers. Even threw a *fwiw* in there to acknowledge that we won't know what the market will be. But like I said, if you've got some overriding need to be a dick, have at it.
He would have been the option, to sit Randle down, when he didn't show up for games.....
Like the first two games: 3 for 23 yards, and 1 for 5 yards, and no td's in either....
PP's best moment was in the game against Atlanta when he caught a pass on the sideline and was given a standing ovation. One of my favorite moments of the season.
On the Jones vs. Randle thing..
Jones put up those numbers despite being away for a year and showing up about a week or two before the season.
Randle put up his numbers despite having been with the same QB for 4 years and getting a healthy amount of snaps.
Randle's numbers should have been higher to start with. When you consider the lack of receiving depth on the team, balls were certainly available to be had on the offense where he should have been an 80+ catch guy, but was not.
The question you would ask is "Why?"
vs
Beckham, Randle, and the hodge podge crew.
And I can't believe anyone would want Randle back next season.
I don't want to appear to come across as a big defender of RR, I'm not, but Jones just isn't a good NFL WR at this point.
Yes, he has mental errors. Mental errors can be coached up. And your experience in pee wee football doesn't mean squat. They teach fundamentals from a young age yet a large portion of the league has basic, fundamental issues they need to work on. Again, not saying Randle should be re-signed, but really, you want to cite/compare your pre teen pop warner experience as relatable? Get the hell outta here with that. I guess that means you'd be a solid, precise route runner if thrown on an NFL field today. Maybe they should just bring you on board, seeing as how you were taught the basics at 14 (like 90% of BBI).
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
vs
Beckham, Randle, and the hodge podge crew.
This exactly is the point of the James Jones went bye bye lamenters, myself included. We would have won more games guaranteed.
First off it's "rud", short vowel sound, rhymes with mud. Second of all, I pointed out that your experience as a tween being taught the fundamentals has *zero* bearing on RR or any other NFL players skill set or where you think they should be. Third, if pointing that out makes me "rude" so be it. It was a dumb thing to say. I'm not rude. I just have a very low threshold for stupid. Finally, if someone disagreeing with you is enough to make you leave an Internet message board then it's probably the best for all involved. You think I'm "rude"? Wish you could've seen the reaction such a stupid supposition would've gotten in the "old days" of BBI...
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
The point should be that letting Jones go was stupid. It was one of many stupid decisions made by the team last year. There were plenty of them. This was one of them.
There is no Randle vs Jones debate. Its not a question of whether Randle was better than Jones or vice versa. Jones may not be a good WR but he's still better than Parker or Harris or Nicks or White. Thats the point.
If this situation had been handled correctly, when Jones had asked to be released they would have told him no. Oh, you're unhappy? Suck it up and play ball. Then they would have cut Parker. The slot position would have been handled by Beckham or Randle or Vereen or Harris or whatever. If the former coaching staff had any creativity at all they could have worked it out. But they don't have any creativity as evidenced by their insistance on some stupid 4 headed RB rotation.
Last season was a comedy of errors and that was one of them.
Thats it. It was a dumb decision. One of many dumb decisions made by the coaches and front office last season en route to another crap season where they only won 6 games and had to fire their head coach because of it. No way around it.
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
Combining two totally separate issues of wanting RR gone now and wanting JJ kept then makes no sense whatsoever.
Its also sad how people will defend RR, yet bash Eli/Coughlin/ or any other Giant who is actually good at what they did/do.
They probably went in the direction of guys who were already in the system here and ready to go, as opposed to Jones. Many would prefer Jones. Bah. Who cares?
Stats? Guy starts across from Beckham, has a hall of famer throwing to him in a league that has made pass defense illegal. Of course he will have a somewhat productive stat line.
I agree with all the negatives stated on this thread about him. I am actually fascinated that any Giant fan would want this guy back.
If he gets offers, good for him, as long has he is not in blue.
It was a brutal year for the guy. He did nothing except proof he cant get open.
cue the stat line...
It would shock the hell out of me if they brought him back.
That's an important point. Jones only caught 53%.
or do we think that had nothing to do with it ?
He regressed and I think it's mostly about his knee problems. But regressed he did and I think they need to move on as well.
It's not whether or not letting Jones go was good or bad. It's why the big difference in the perception of the two receivers who had statistically the same performance?
Bingo ^^^^ Thank You
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He regressed and I think it's mostly about his knee problems. But regressed he did and I think they need to move on as well.
Bill, respectfully doesn't make sense..If it's "knee problems" then you bring him back, UNLESS it is assessed that this is a chronic condition
Randle was supposed to be the third option going into the season anyway. I think we'd view him differently if that played out.
I hope they do better than JJ. He must be the most overrated player in history on this board.
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and we will sign JJ for less and not lose anything
I hope they do better than JJ. He must be the most overrated player in history on this board.
Hardly. The exaggerations on his talent or lack therof from both sides are comical.
Nobody on this board was enamored with Jones until he was on another team. Same old story. People only see the negatives when a player is on our roster, but as soon as that player makes a contribution on another team our management is stupid for letting them go.
The glass is half empty here, and half full elsewhere.
A young RR underachieved to get those numbers.
But he lacks passion/desire, and in the NFL, that's what essentially gets you to the level.
Randle is going to play 10+ years, make a lot of money, get a great pension but will be known as a guy who didn't maximize his talent/effort.
Giants really need to move on from him. You'll get the same results, especially and more importantly at crunch time, with a high effort/less ability player.
or do we think that had nothing to do with it ?
We know that had nothing to do with it. Jones doesn't play the slot, so keeping him had nothing to do with Cruz. Jones asked for his release because he felt he would get more playing time elsewhere.
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Are we overlooking the obvious here ? JJ was not retained because Cruz was supposed to return.
or do we think that had nothing to do with it ?
We know that had nothing to do with it. Jones doesn't play the slot, so keeping him had nothing to do with Cruz. Jones asked for his release because he felt he would get more playing time elsewhere.
Well, yes and no. While not directly in competition for the slot receiver spot, they were running Randle in the slot in practices and talked that option up (at least from what I read). I was flabbergasted that they kept Parker. They should have kept Jones and Randle. Use Randle and Harris for the slot and keep Jones as a 2nd receiver on the outside. Parker had hands of cement.
Well, yes and no. While not directly in competition for the slot receiver spot, they were running Randle in the slot in practices and talked that option up (at least from what I read). I was flabbergasted that they kept Parker. They should have kept Jones and Randle. Use Randle and Harris for the slot and keep Jones as a 2nd receiver on the outside. Parker had hands of cement.
They may have talked up Randle playing the slot, but I think it's telling that he never played there. As KWALL noted, Reuben doesn't have the skillset to play the slot effectively.
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Well, yes and no. While not directly in competition for the slot receiver spot, they were running Randle in the slot in practices and talked that option up (at least from what I read). I was flabbergasted that they kept Parker. They should have kept Jones and Randle. Use Randle and Harris for the slot and keep Jones as a 2nd receiver on the outside. Parker had hands of cement.
They may have talked up Randle playing the slot, but I think it's telling that he never played there. As KWALL noted, Reuben doesn't have the skillset to play the slot effectively.
Yep that's true, but seems Harris was a decent fit there. Then at least you have Harris in the slot and Jones in place of Randle (at least when his knees were flaring up). Well, it doesn't really matter now... lol. I like the discussion though because I was pissed that they kept Parker over him, or that's how I saw it anyway.
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In comment 12776914 JonC said:
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He regressed and I think it's mostly about his knee problems. But regressed he did and I think they need to move on as well.
Bill, respectfully doesn't make sense..If it's "knee problems" then you bring him back, UNLESS it is assessed that this is a chronic condition
But it is essentially chronic BB. Isn't it an arthritic condition? That's what I understood.
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In comment 12776945 BillT said:
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In comment 12776914 JonC said:
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He regressed and I think it's mostly about his knee problems. But regressed he did and I think they need to move on as well.
Bill, respectfully doesn't make sense..If it's "knee problems" then you bring him back, UNLESS it is assessed that this is a chronic condition
But it is essentially chronic BB. Isn't it an arthritic condition? That's what I understood.
Must have escaped me. I thought it was soft tissue. If not then yes, most likely chronic
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In comment 12776726 j_rud said:
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He's got the physical skill and talent and produces like a solid No 2. The times he leaves fans groaning it's because of mental errors, errors I believe can be corrected with solid coaching. Maybe Henry can do that. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he should be re-signed however. The real question is what he'll demand on the open market. OTC.com projects him in the range of 5 years, 32-34 million. That would be a nice chunk of change to give a guy with those question marks and it would most likely rule out bringing in another FA wideout like Kearse, Matthews, or Benjamin (all of whom OTC ranks below Randle, FWIW). Then again, who knows. If they can get Randle for 5 mill per maybe they can still add someone like Kearse or Sanu, who OTC projects at about 3 mill per. Restructuring Cruz's deal could go a long way in making that happen.
Bottom line is, be it Cruz, Randle, or a FA pickup thy need someone reliable to help take some pressure off Beckham. That's no secret. As for James Jones and the Original post, no offense, but who cares? The season is over. Hindsight is 20/20. Personnel mistakes have been made. That's no secret either. How do they get better at the position moving forward? That's the question, not James Jones.
The market is the market.
If Randle gets that kind of offer on the open market, perhaps the fact that the open market thinks RR is worth more than some of all-star options being floated around BBI means BBI needs to re-think its evaluation skills, perhaps there are professionals charged with evaluating players and spending their employer's money might be better than a bunch of fans on a website . . . Nah.
Not sure what purpose being a wise as serves here but if that's what you need to do, by all means, go for it.
Point is, for discussions sake, those are the numbers *projected* by a pretty reputable site. I'm not a scout or an agent, none of us, so again, for *discussions sake* I cited a website. I didn't say those were concrete numbers. Even threw a *fwiw* in there to acknowledge that we won't know what the market will be. But like I said, if you've got some overriding need to be a dick, have at it.
I think that's what I said, let's see what this guy gets for offers on the open market.
I wouldn't sign RR for half that and I really doubt anyone is paying him 6/7 mil/year. But what do I know.
interceptions while throwing to Jones - 0
interceptions while throwing to Randle - 10
incomplete third down plays to Jones - 2
incomplete third down plays to Randle - 25
Jones was not beating any of them out. NFL teams don't keep vet guys like that on the end of rosters to sit. They keep young guys to do that. When they cut him, Cruz was still talking of playing early and Parker and Harris were the insurance
With GB, once teams realized Cobb was not capable of being a 1, Jones production slipped big
This notion that people think he is not a no 2 is a joke
interceptions while throwing to Jones - 0
interceptions while throwing to Randle - 10
incomplete third down plays to Jones - 2
incomplete third down plays to Randle - 25
True. Another intangible stat is that Jones had a much better QB throwing him the ball.
Can't win with this guy.
He f**ks up the entire team with his lack of focus, intensity and desire to play hard on every down.
I'm through with this guy's dogging it.
The sooner they let him walk the better.
Can't win s**t with him.
ps I was the first idiot on BBI to make a favorable comparison between this guy's stats after three seasons versus Amani Toomer. In retrospect, that was the dumbest ass thing I ever did. And mentioning these two guys in the same breath was the ultimate insult to Amani Toomer.
We can and have to do better. And we will.
We can and have to do better. And we will.
yep...
But, I disagree that it was ever RR or JJ. After his finish in 2014, RR was coming back. It was always the JAG JJ vs JAG PP. the others were youngsters being considered for potential. PP could supposedly fill the slot while Cruz was out. I posted it was wise to keep a slot receiver like PP. unfortunately, PP shit the bed big time. So, it appears TC (and I) went in the wrong direction.
Covering the slot clouds the issue, and it is the reason PP was kept. RR was never in doubt. PP and JJ were JAGs. one seemed to have more versatility. that's where the decision had to be made.
Way too much is being made of the decision. At the time, it made sense. In hind sight, it was a BAD decision. no amount of obvious threads are going to change it. it was a bad decision. shit happens.