there are alot of worse options out there. plus with all of our injury history, wouldn't it make sense to keep as many decent olineman as possible? we have the cap room, why cut him? same with Cruz, we will need another body to fill Randle's spot, why make it worse to cut cruz? Granted he may not be the player he was, but i bet he's still a better option than whats out there.
on the roster, the Giants should not be willing to part ways with Prince so easily. OK, so maybe he's not going to be paid top dollar - and if that's his asking price, then away he goes: but if he's reasonable about his pay day, I think the Giants need to bring him back into the fold.
Lord knows we don't need to go into 2016 with only one starting CB who knows the system.
in that article is keeping Beatty. I'm on the fence here...I don't trust Beatty to stay healthy, but you're not going to find a replacement for his ~$4M in cap savings. That said, you could probably cut Beatty and Schwartz and use the combined $7M in savings to get a guy like Mike Adams or Andre Smith for RT, assuming they are comfortable with Flowers at LT moving forward.
Of course, you're then likely looking at Jerry/Hart/draft pick at RG.
Dahl - I wouldn't be surprised to see him in camp for the vet min. Can't imagine he'll get a whole lot of interest elsewhere and Spags supposedly loves him.
Prince - lots of cap room for teams and someone will likely pay him. I'd look to sign Sean Smith or Janoris Jenkins for similar money (or even an extra $1-2M per year).
there are alot of worse options out there. plus with all of our injury history, wouldn't it make sense to keep as many decent olineman as possible? we have the cap room, why cut him? same with Cruz, we will need another body to fill Randle's spot, why make it worse to cut cruz? Granted he may not be the player he was, but i bet he's still a better option than whats out there.
Beatty's a better asset to hold onto than Cruz IMO. Sounds cold, but I'm running under the assumption that Cruz is done as a contributing player.
I love Cruz, but I wouldn't bring him back. Time to move on.
there are alot of worse options out there. plus with all of our injury history, wouldn't it make sense to keep as many decent olineman as possible? we have the cap room, why cut him? same with Cruz, we will need another body to fill Randle's spot, why make it worse to cut cruz? Granted he may not be the player he was, but i bet he's still a better option than whats out there.
Beatty's a better asset to hold onto than Cruz IMO. Sounds cold, but I'm running under the assumption that Cruz is done as a contributing player.
That's why I think you'll see a substantial pay cut for Cruz with the ability to earn all/most of it back via (easily earned) incentives. I think you'll see his base cut from $7.9 to maybe $2.9 (or further) and then playing time incentives that enable him to earn $3M of the $5M cut back.
He's already due a $100k roster bonus, so they'll probably sweeten that a little as a "thank you" for agreeing to the deal.
if I had to pick one. We can spend on a solid #2 and not miss a beat in the passing game. I love what Cruz brought to the table in the past, but business is business and the Giants need to move on from aging, often injured and expensive players if at all possible.
If you don't sign Prince who do you replace him with
Easy to say "move on" harder to replace him. You have to have 2 solid vet CB to start the season and there isn't a replacement on the roster. This is why articles like this are worthless. Without a solid replacement you simply can't move on.
Schneier himself makes the case for keeping Prince.
"In four seasons with the Giants, Amukamara hasn't been elite, but he has consistently performed well in coverage when on the field."
"Strong cover corners aren't easy to find, and Amukamara may field some big offers on the open market.... Cornerback will immediately become another major need, but the Giants are best off targeting a free agent willing to sign a short-term deal or investing an early draft pick at the position."
He doesn't mention what a fine tackler Prince is, finishing 2nd to Rolle in solo tackles with 76 in the only year he played in all 16 games.
Prince hasn't had any devastating injuries; just soft tissue biceps and pectoral tears. (Prior to the last couple of years, did we ever hear so much about pectoral tears?)
Hell, Hankins has only played one 16 game season. He missed seven games in his rookie year and nine this season. Should we get rid of him too?
The bottom line is, since we need to expend high draft choices and cap space on really desperately poor positions, we should take the risk on Prince and his injuries.
Unless, of course, another team offers him a substantially bigger contract than the offer he gets from the Giants, which is FAIR OR A LITTLE BETTER THAN FAIR, and the other team's contract is larger due mostly to incentives, and he takes it, and it turns out that not knowing the new team's system, or his teammates, his disappoints his new team and next thing you know, his career is over.
Yes, you get contract concessions and you sign a FA who can be a #2 but you wait and see if Cruz can contribute. If he can't you've made plans. If he can you are ready to roll.
In fact, of the 25-30 players without contracts, you can say the NYG are better off with none of them returning next season. IF I had to pick one to bring back (at the right price) it would be Prince.
RE: If you don't sign Prince who do you replace him with
Easy to say "move on" harder to replace him. You have to have 2 solid vet CB to start the season and there isn't a replacement on the roster. This is why articles like this are worthless. Without a solid replacement you simply can't move on.
You should check out the pending FAs at CB. Easily the deepest position in free agency this year even if Norman and Hall are tagged.
isn't the physical corner the Giants need and makes far too many business decisions out there. He shies away from contact and is routinely beat by bigger receivers - rather easily actually. The money that he will command at this point is the second most glaring issue at this point.
Agree on all the others with perhaps the exception of Jenkins or maybe JPP if he doesn't have to play with a club and will take far less money.
due to injuries though. IIRC, Jenkins/Joseph were the starters with Mike Patterson and Shaun Rogers the primary backups to start the season so Hankins had to work his way into the rotation. He also only missed 5 games that year, not 7.
RE: RE: If you don't sign Prince who do you replace him with
Easy to say "move on" harder to replace him. You have to have 2 solid vet CB to start the season and there isn't a replacement on the roster. This is why articles like this are worthless. Without a solid replacement you simply can't move on.
You should check out the pending FAs at CB. Easily the deepest position in free agency this year even if Norman and Hall are tagged.
Ok. Who and at what price? Top FA CB are hugely expensive. I'm ok with that but you don't move on from Prince without a plan and a (big) budget.
Geoff Schwartz? I think there should at least be some discussion about moving on from him. Two years and two serious injuries.
+1
+2 Also, I'll add Marshall Newhouse. Seems like everytime we heard his name, it was because he was becoming a swinging-gate on the right side and getting Eli killed.
...he hasn't done squat since signing here. He's been hurt or played poorly. His $3M can be used better elsewhere.
I'd also move on from JPP unless he's willing to take a one year deal with a low base salary with incentives for a total AAV in the $7-8M range. One handed DE's don't get paid until they prove they can tackle with both hands if I'm signing the paychecks.
Prince will push his own way out the door when he tells the Giants what he thinks he's worth.
Prince? Would you give that money to him, or Sean Smith or Trumaine Johnson?
Lord knows we don't need to go into 2016 with only one starting CB who knows the system.
+1
Of course, you're then likely looking at Jerry/Hart/draft pick at RG.
Dahl - I wouldn't be surprised to see him in camp for the vet min. Can't imagine he'll get a whole lot of interest elsewhere and Spags supposedly loves him.
Prince - lots of cap room for teams and someone will likely pay him. I'd look to sign Sean Smith or Janoris Jenkins for similar money (or even an extra $1-2M per year).
Beatty's a better asset to hold onto than Cruz IMO. Sounds cold, but I'm running under the assumption that Cruz is done as a contributing player.
Quote:
there are alot of worse options out there. plus with all of our injury history, wouldn't it make sense to keep as many decent olineman as possible? we have the cap room, why cut him? same with Cruz, we will need another body to fill Randle's spot, why make it worse to cut cruz? Granted he may not be the player he was, but i bet he's still a better option than whats out there.
Beatty's a better asset to hold onto than Cruz IMO. Sounds cold, but I'm running under the assumption that Cruz is done as a contributing player.
That's why I think you'll see a substantial pay cut for Cruz with the ability to earn all/most of it back via (easily earned) incentives. I think you'll see his base cut from $7.9 to maybe $2.9 (or further) and then playing time incentives that enable him to earn $3M of the $5M cut back.
He's already due a $100k roster bonus, so they'll probably sweeten that a little as a "thank you" for agreeing to the deal.
OMG, there's enough dead wood on the Giants roster to start one of the great bonfires of all time.
Agree, if he is paid commensurate with his play then try to keep him. If he gets a ridiculous contract I would not match it.
"Strong cover corners aren't easy to find, and Amukamara may field some big offers on the open market.... Cornerback will immediately become another major need, but the Giants are best off targeting a free agent willing to sign a short-term deal or investing an early draft pick at the position."
He doesn't mention what a fine tackler Prince is, finishing 2nd to Rolle in solo tackles with 76 in the only year he played in all 16 games.
Prince hasn't had any devastating injuries; just soft tissue biceps and pectoral tears. (Prior to the last couple of years, did we ever hear so much about pectoral tears?)
Hell, Hankins has only played one 16 game season. He missed seven games in his rookie year and nine this season. Should we get rid of him too?
The bottom line is, since we need to expend high draft choices and cap space on really desperately poor positions, we should take the risk on Prince and his injuries.
Unless, of course, another team offers him a substantially bigger contract than the offer he gets from the Giants, which is FAIR OR A LITTLE BETTER THAN FAIR, and the other team's contract is larger due mostly to incentives, and he takes it, and it turns out that not knowing the new team's system, or his teammates, his disappoints his new team and next thing you know, his career is over.
You should check out the pending FAs at CB. Easily the deepest position in free agency this year even if Norman and Hall are tagged.
Agree on all the others with perhaps the exception of Jenkins or maybe JPP if he doesn't have to play with a club and will take far less money.
Quote:
Easy to say "move on" harder to replace him. You have to have 2 solid vet CB to start the season and there isn't a replacement on the roster. This is why articles like this are worthless. Without a solid replacement you simply can't move on.
You should check out the pending FAs at CB. Easily the deepest position in free agency this year even if Norman and Hall are tagged.
Ok. Who and at what price? Top FA CB are hugely expensive. I'm ok with that but you don't move on from Prince without a plan and a (big) budget.
Quote:
Geoff Schwartz? I think there should at least be some discussion about moving on from him. Two years and two serious injuries.
+1
+2 Also, I'll add Marshall Newhouse. Seems like everytime we heard his name, it was because he was becoming a swinging-gate on the right side and getting Eli killed.
I'd also move on from JPP unless he's willing to take a one year deal with a low base salary with incentives for a total AAV in the $7-8M range. One handed DE's don't get paid until they prove they can tackle with both hands if I'm signing the paychecks.
Prince will push his own way out the door when he tells the Giants what he thinks he's worth.
His opinion works only in the alternate reality that teams have unlimited funds and the cap did not exist.